Inmate treatment - Sheriff Joe Arpaio

Evelyn - posted on 09/07/2009

Quoting Sharon:

Quoting Evelyn:

Ok then, so using that rationale, let's profile every race for the crimes they are known for (as well as stereotyped for) why don't we? Why don't we ask all white middle aged men if they are serial killers? Why don't we ask all italians if they are involved in the mafia? Why don't we ask all black men if they are car theives? Why don't we ask all people of middle eastern descent if they are terrorists? Yeah, I know I may be taking it too far but seriously...look at what you wrote! It is NEVER ok to profile!

 

Profiling has its place.  Criminalists use it to the benefit of criminal capture all the time. 

 ****Sorry, can't brush it off that easily...profiling is just racism with a professional name.

If they want to ask me the next time I get pulled over for a traffic issue "Ma'am are you a desperate housewife?"

 

I'm not insulted.  I fall into that profile.  "no sir I'm not. see my scrapbook supplies, photography supplies?  I'm not desperate at all."

 

****Oh please, a desperate housewife? Give me a break. I'm talking about people being profiled for C-R-I-M-I-N-A-L reasons. When have you ever heard of someone being pulled over because they looked like a "desperate housewife"? That's just ridiculous.

 

Sharon, while I agree with a lot of your posts in COM...the statement "What is the big deal about asking a hispanic person if they are a legal citizen or not" is just ludicrous to me. Do you have any idea how insulting that would be to that person? When you profile someone due to their race it is never "not a big deal".

I still don't see the big deal.  If you aren't an illegal alien, you will have the proper documentation showing you are a united states citizen.

 ****Well, perhaps where you are from, you are used to people being profiled,I'm not, so I don't understand your mentality.

Its no more harrassing than a cop asking someone when they get pulled over if they might have any warrants out for their arrest.  Are we all supposed to get pissed off and raise hell?  They must be profiling, I drive a nice truck with killer rims, I must be a criminal?  No, I just answer the question.

 

Maybe you have never been through something like this..but I have and it is humiliating as well as incredibly offensive. I am a multi-racial woman with a child who is MUCH lighter than I am.(her father is italian) You cannot even tell she is multi-racial..This is also the case with most of my family, my sister is married to an Irish/German man, my brother is married to a hispanic woman..etc..etc...My mother is the same complexion as my daughter and I am a bit darker than they are. I have grown up with people staring and trying to figure out who we are to one another. When my daughter was born, she was very fair with blue/grey eyes. People thought I was her sitter. That is why you should never assume anything based on race...while I am not the least self concious about our differences largely due to having grown up in such a culturally diverse family..it does not mean I'm unaware of the ignorace that surrounds me. While this country has made progress in many ways...in many ways it has not. ..I have been down the "racism road" many times ladies...so please excuse me if I cannot take the subject of racial profiling as lightly as you seem to be able to. I am sooo done w/this thread ladies...I know my limit and I've reached it.

 

 

Oh please.  I'm bi-racial.  Dark hair, dark skin.  My son was born with blonde hair and blue eyes.  On vacation it was assumed I was the nanny.  I look nothing like my son.  I can't blame people for assuming the obvious.  I just correct them.  Its no skin off my back to answer a simple question.  Although that time I told the ladies I was hired from a website called "nannies.org and I was from switzerland."

 

****See, here's another difference. I don't have "dark" skin. I have very light skin, so while it may be easeir for you to understand why people assume you are his nanny, it's not so easy for me. I called it "ignorance" becasue it shouldn't be that hard to fathom how a fair skinned multi-racial woman has a child as fair as I do.

 

Another time my son threw a temper tantrum at costco.  Full blown screaming and yelling and kicking on the floor.  I was 7 months pregnant and had no way to lift him up while he was struggling so hard, so I had a seat on some soda pallets and let him go.  Two women stopped and offered to take him to the security desk so they could find his mom.  I just smiled and said "no thank you." 

 

**** I would have responded differently...I would have also smiled and said..."she's standing right here". I would have taken the opportunity to educate them.

 

 there was nothing to get upset over.  I don't look like my son, its kind of natural to assume I'm not his mother.  but if I'm ever stopped I have his school ID in my wallet and the most current picture of him and his siblings.

 ****LIke I said earlier...I don't think it's natural. My daughter actually does look like me facially .....she has hazel eyes like her father...the only other difference is her fairer complexion. And no...I don't feel the need to carry "proof" of my child around with me.

yes I"ve been the subject of cruel racism.  I've been told that I'm not good enough to date someones son.  I've been called names for my race.  Their problems are not my mine.  I'm not upset with it.  Amused mostly.

 ******I've never been told that I wasn't good enough, That must have been very hard for you. Growing up in a melting pot like Long Island, NY ...interracial dating was commonplace and pretty much expected. Which is why I really had no "real" idea of racism until I was older and started to take notice of little things...very subtle actually. I am from a very affluent part of this country and people of all races are very well to do and people are very concious of how they treat each other. It is also a very liberal place so friendliness abounds anyway lol.

 

********When I mentioned earlier that I had been the victim of racism and it was "humiliating and offensive" I was not referring to any situations involving my child, I am speaking of an incident when I was 8 1/2 months pregnant. I won't go into details..it's not relevant to this thread anyway.  But my daughter and I have been stared at on many occassions...sometimes friendly and sometimes not. But like you, I could care less about that..that is their issue, not mine. I just chalk it up to the fact that she is so blindingly beautiful, they can't help but stare. :-)

So don't tell me I don't know racism.  I've got stories that will make you stand up and shriek with anger on my behalf.  but not for something as petty as asking "are you a united states citizen?"  I get asked every time I go through a border patrol check point and it doesn't hurt my feelings.

 

*****Well, I'm glad you've found a way to brush it off...reiterating what I wrote earlier..I didn't grow up with a knowledge of racism, it was something that had to be dealt with when I was older. So I guess I haven't got as strong of a stomach against it. Perhaps one day..but honestly I hope not because racism, profiling, discrimination...etc..etc..is never something that should be taken lightly.

 

***I know I said I was done with this thread...but let's just say your post "inspired" me..lol. :-)

 

Sharon - posted on 09/06/2009

Quoting Evelyn:

Ok then, so using that rationale, let's profile every race for the crimes they are known for (as well as stereotyped for) why don't we? Why don't we ask all white middle aged men if they are serial killers? Why don't we ask all italians if they are involved in the mafia? Why don't we ask all black men if they are car theives? Why don't we ask all people of middle eastern descent if they are terrorists? Yeah, I know I may be taking it too far but seriously...look at what you wrote! It is NEVER ok to profile!

 

Profiling has its place.  Criminalists use it to the benefit of criminal capture all the time. 

 

If they want to ask me the next time I get pulled over for a traffic issue "Ma'am are you a desperate housewife?"

 

I'm not insulted.  I fall into that profile.  "no sir I'm not. see my scrapbook supplies, photography supplies?  I'm not desperate at all."

 

 

Sharon, while I agree with a lot of your posts in COM...the statement "What is the big deal about asking a hispanic person if they are a legal citizen or not" is just ludicrous to me. Do you have any idea how insulting that would be to that person? When you profile someone due to their race it is never "not a big deal".

I still don't see the big deal.  If you aren't an illegal alien, you will have the proper documentation showing you are a united states citizen.

 

Its no more harrassing than a cop asking someone when they get pulled over if they might have any warrants out for their arrest.  Are we all supposed to get pissed off and raise hell?  They must be profiling, I drive a nice truck with killer rims, I must be a criminal?  No, I just answer the question.

 

Maybe you have never been through something like this..but I have and it is humiliating as well as incredibly offensive. I am a multi-racial woman with a child who is MUCH lighter than I am.(her father is italian) You cannot even tell she is multi-racial..This is also the case with most of my family, my sister is married to an Irish/German man, my brother is married to a hispanic woman..etc..etc...My mother is the same complexion as my daughter and I am a bit darker than they are. I have grown up with people staring and trying to figure out who we are to one another. When my daughter was born, she was very fair with blue/grey eyes. People thought I was her sitter. That is why you should never assume anything based on race...while I am not the least self concious about our differences largely due to having grown up in such a culturally diverse family..it does not mean I'm unaware of the ignorace that surrounds me. While this country has made progress in many ways...in many ways it has not. ..I have been down the "racism road" many times ladies...so please excuse me if I cannot take the subject of racial profiling as lightly as you seem to be able to. I am sooo done w/this thread ladies...I know my limit and I've reached it.

 

 

Oh please.  I'm bi-racial.  Dark hair, dark skin.  My son was born with blonde hair and blue eyes.  On vacation it was assumed I was the nanny.  I look nothing like my son.  I can't blame people for assuming the obvious.  I just correct them.  Its no skin off my back to answer a simple question.  Although that time I told the ladies I was hired from a website called "nannies.org and I was from switzerland."

 

Another time my son threw a temper tantrum at costco.  Full blown screaming and yelling and kicking on the floor.  I was 7 months pregnant and had no way to lift him up while he was struggling so hard, so I had a seat on some soda pallets and let him go.  Two women stopped and offered to take him to the security desk so they could find his mom.  I just smiled and said "no thank you." 

 there was nothing to get upset over.  I don't look like my son, its kind of natural to assume I'm not his mother.  but if I'm ever stopped I have his school ID in my wallet and the most current picture of him and his siblings.

 

yes I"ve been the subject of cruel racism.  I've been told that I'm not good enough to date someones son.  I've been called names for my race.  Their problems are not my mine.  I'm not upset with it.  Amused mostly.

 

So don't tell me I don't know racism.  I've got stories that will make you stand up and shriek with anger on my behalf.  but not for something as petty as asking "are you a united states citizen?"  I get asked every time I go through a border patrol check point and it doesn't hurt my feelings.

Evelyn - posted on 09/06/2009

Ok then, so using that rationale, let's profile every race for the crimes they are known for (as well as stereotyped for) why don't we? Why don't we ask all white middle aged men if they are serial killers? Why don't we ask all italians if they are involved in the mafia? Why don't we ask all black men if they are car theives? Why don't we ask all people of middle eastern descent if they are terrorists? Yeah, I know I may be taking it too far but seriously...look at what you wrote! It is NEVER ok to profile! Yeah, I mean even in "bad" areas. No, I have never personally lived in an area where the crime rate was high, but I know plenty of people who have. They have gotten harassed and badgered because of what they look like, while the actual criminals had the street smarts to know how NOT to get caught. Sharon, while I agree with a lot of your posts in COM...the statement "What is the big deal about asking a hispanic person if they are a legal citizen or not" is just ludicrous to me. Do you have any idea how insulting that would be to that person? When you profile someone due to their race it is never "not a big deal". Maybe you have never been through something like this..but I have and it is humiliating as well as incredibly offensive. I am a multi-racial woman with a child who is MUCH lighter than I am.(her father is italian) You cannot even tell she is multi-racial..This is also the case with most of my family, my sister is married to an Irish/German man, my brother is married to a hispanic woman..etc..etc...My mother is the same complexion as my daughter and I am a bit darker than they are. I have grown up with people staring and trying to figure out who we are to one another. When my daughter was born, she was very fair with blue/grey eyes. People thought I was her sitter. That is why you should never assume anything based on race...while I am not the least self concious about our differences largely due to having grown up in such a culturally diverse family..it does not mean I'm unaware of the ignorace that surrounds me. While this country has made progress in many ways...in many ways it has not. ..I have been down the "racism road" many times ladies...so please excuse me if I cannot take the subject of racial profiling as lightly as you seem to be able to. I am sooo done w/this thread ladies...I know my limit and I've reached it.

Sharon - posted on 09/06/2009

I don't understand what the big deal is? When you look like a potential criminal - no one objects to you being arrested and hauled off to jail for a line up? What is the big deal about asking a hispanic person if they are a legal citizen or not?



Now berating a person or abusing them is not called for and should not be tolerated but simply asking someone if they are a legal citizen or not shouldn't be that big a deal.

Kelly - posted on 09/06/2009

Quoting Evelyn:

Ok..it takes A LOT to flabbergast me...trust me......but did you really just say... " I have absolutely no problem profiling these people if it makes our country a little bit safer." ?????

WHAT THE FU*K???? Wow...just wow. That's so ignorant I'm not even going to elaborate any further.

Evelyn,

Maybe I didn't expand enough on my statement..... I am not sure where you live, but in a largely populated area like Dallas or Ft. Worth, there are known areas (as there are in L.A., Chicago,  and other big cities) where the population is largely made up of criminals.  Areas that have been completely taken over by a criminal and illegal element.  Why is it wrong to profile in these areas?  I am not saying pull over anyone of color just for driving down the highway.  But profiling in known problem areas could stop a lot of drugs and violence.  The kidknapping rates have gone up significantly because of the drug cartels in Mexico.  Why do we have to just sit here and accept it?  And I am not just limiting profiling to skin color.  Profile the people loitering on street corners at all times of the day and night, people flashing gang colors, signs, styles of clothing etc.  in these areas.  I have a few black friends who have been run out of the neighborhoods they grew up in because it is not safe to live there anymore.  You may not agree with my thoughts or opinions, but don't call me ignorant because I am not willing to become a victim for fear of offending someone. 

Maleasha - posted on 09/06/2009

Quoting Kelly:

I don't live in Arizona, but I have watched many documentaries on and interviews with Arpaio and I really like his approach. Prison gangs and re-offenders are out of control. I am sorry, but hand holding and rehabilitation do not work. Look at that guy that was released on parole for violent sex crimes, and now it turns out he kept and raped that girl he kidknapped for years and years in his backyard. From what I see, Arpaio's method is to make jail so miserable that they don't want to go back. That works for me. Its hard to gang bang and look tough in pink boxers. Nutraloaf is all they need to be eating, and no, I don't think they deserve tv, ac, or access to workout equipment. Jail is not a vacation, it is supposed to be punishment. There are plenty of programs out there to help people get through school and better themselves. We don't need to be handing out free education as a reward for breaking the law. In the real world, people work for a living. I wish there were more people in law enforcement like him. We sure could use him in Dallas. As far as illegals go, Arizona is one of the states with the largest population draining resources. The only thing that makes me mad about his approach with illegals is that he discourages them from going to Arizona and we may end up with more in Texas. Constitutional rights are reserved for CITIZENS and don't apply to residents of other countries. Our southern border is a mess, and an open gate for not only more illegals, but for more violent gangs and terrorists. I have absolutely no problem profiling these people if it makes our country a little bit safer. Medicaid, Welfare, Social Security, etc should never be made available to illegals. I am not going to say people don't have the right to make a better life for their families, but do it the legal way. And get a job. Don't come here and leach off the system. Anyone familiar with how Mexico defends its southern border against immigrants? Arpaio is a true American, and I hope he rubs off on Sheriffs and Police in other jurisdictions.

Well said! My husband worked in the prison system for over 3 years and the stories he told me about what happened inside the walls was very disturbing. They have more things available to them then most law abiding citizens do. It sickens me to see them go to jail only to have everything handed to them. Free healthcare, free education, state of the art work out facilities, brand new flat screen tv, cable: when will it stop. They committed a crime, they are in there to be punished for what they did and yet it seems they are being rewarded for it. I think that Sheriff Arpaio is doing a great job. The prisoners have clothes on their backs and are being fed. To me that's all they need while they are paying there debt to society.

Evelyn - posted on 09/06/2009

Ok..it takes A LOT to flabbergast me...trust me......but did you really just say... " I have absolutely no problem profiling these people if it makes our country a little bit safer." ?????

WHAT THE FU*K???? Wow...just wow. That's so ignorant I'm not even going to elaborate any further.

Sharon - posted on 09/06/2009

My point is they should be punished, not treated better than your average citizen.

Why are we paying contractors top dollar to do the same crappy job the inmates could be doing? Let them earn their treatments like the rest of us!



The illegals are a whole different debate.

Kelly - posted on 09/06/2009

I don't live in Arizona, but I have watched many documentaries on and interviews with Arpaio and I really like his approach. Prison gangs and re-offenders are out of control. I am sorry, but hand holding and rehabilitation do not work. Look at that guy that was released on parole for violent sex crimes, and now it turns out he kept and raped that girl he kidknapped for years and years in his backyard. From what I see, Arpaio's method is to make jail so miserable that they don't want to go back. That works for me. Its hard to gang bang and look tough in pink boxers. Nutraloaf is all they need to be eating, and no, I don't think they deserve tv, ac, or access to workout equipment. Jail is not a vacation, it is supposed to be punishment. There are plenty of programs out there to help people get through school and better themselves. We don't need to be handing out free education as a reward for breaking the law. In the real world, people work for a living. I wish there were more people in law enforcement like him. We sure could use him in Dallas. As far as illegals go, Arizona is one of the states with the largest population draining resources. The only thing that makes me mad about his approach with illegals is that he discourages them from going to Arizona and we may end up with more in Texas. Constitutional rights are reserved for CITIZENS and don't apply to residents of other countries. Our southern border is a mess, and an open gate for not only more illegals, but for more violent gangs and terrorists. I have absolutely no problem profiling these people if it makes our country a little bit safer. Medicaid, Welfare, Social Security, etc should never be made available to illegals. I am not going to say people don't have the right to make a better life for their families, but do it the legal way. And get a job. Don't come here and leach off the system. Anyone familiar with how Mexico defends its southern border against immigrants? Arpaio is a true American, and I hope he rubs off on Sheriffs and Police in other jurisdictions.

Lindsay - posted on 09/06/2009

I tend to think like Mary on this one. The majority of people in prison are not serving life terms. That's not fact, just my assumption. That means that these people will eventually serve their time and be released. I would much rather have someone released that has been through a program that can help them instead of releasing an angry m f'er that wants to get back at the world. I don't think prison or jail should be a bed of roses but I think the people that are there should get some self-help so they are more able to be productive at time of release.

Evelyn - posted on 09/06/2009

I've heard about this guy on numerous occassions. I have absolutely NO respect for him. His racism pretty much negates anything else he does. Whether good or bad. Yeah, I know that may sound intolerant but oh well, I have absolutely no tolerance for racism of any sort.

ME - posted on 09/06/2009

I would guess that it depends on whether you believe prison should ONLY be about punishment, or you believe that it should also be about rehabilitation. Reinforcing the idea that human beings can be treated like garbage seems like a bad idea to me. I don't have any problem with hard labor, as long as they also get counseling, access to education, and some form of support after release.

Sapphire - posted on 09/06/2009

Always a mixed reaction with Sherrif Joe! I'm on the fence with my opinion of him-I do like some of his policies, and hate others. I live 3 miles PAST the Maricopa County line boundaries, so I am not in his jurasdiction. My FIL has a pair of his pink boxers autographed. I have seen the chain gangs, not for a long time though. Something about Sherrif Joe is on the news all the time. I do agree with treating CONVICTED criminals like scum. Green baloney, old cheese, moldy bread, & moldy fruit-1200 calories a day is what a "nutritionist" deemed to be a minimal diet. Yes-it's been documented. The problem is that before a prisoner is found guilty of a crime, they are already treated poorly. IMO, Sherrif Joe does not believe in "innocent before proven guilty" and treats non-convicted people the same as hard-core convicted criminals. I have a hard time with that. Sherrif Joe's stance on illegal immigration is well known and documented. But, his illegal racial profiling is beyond humane. Bottom line: If you have brown skin, and have the slightest tiny infraction to be pulled over or stopped in the street, you will be brutally harrased. Instead of a ticket for failing to yield, you may be slapped with 3 serious fines because the county sherrifs are trained to find more fines, add more crimes, and make a mountain out of a mole hill. It is illegal to ask for citizenship, but the county sherrifs do anyway. That's because Spanish speaking people are deathly AFRAID and do not know their rights, and of course are afraid to speak up. So many Spanish speaking people, legal & illegal, are afraid to call for assistance for an emergency because of the racial profiling, or the fear they will be harrased. I could go on and on, but only because I live in the area. Police brutality happens everywhere in the world. It's jsut a matter of how far is too far.