Is it OK to let your kids try wine?

Bonnie - posted on 03/24/2012

Coming from being married into an Italian family, they make their own wine. My husband use to be allowed to drink some wine as a child. I, personally, am not okay with children drinking wine or any alcohol for that matter as in having a glass with everyone else. But, I don't see a problem with tasting it on occasion.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/24/2012

Why do they do it, despite knowing not to? Because they do not know how to feel their bodies reacting to the alcohol--ie. they don't know how drunk they are, and the only people around to tell them are other drunk kids who don't know how drunk they are. But if a kid has had drinks before with someone who can guide them, they will be more aware that they are not capable of driving whether they can feel the effects of the alcohol right now or not.



Kelly, that is so far from the truth. They darn well know they are intoxicated. Teens have the "It will never happen to me" mentality. They will do things even if they know better, simply because they do not believe it can happen to them. They're not stupid (most anyhow), they know if they are drunk, or tippsy. Why do they drink otherwise?



How about all the people that do drink and drive? Adults, ones that HAVE been caught? I think they know better. They think they can drive better drunk. They think they will never ever kill someone.



You can teach someone by giving them drinks all you want and tell them all you want, as you said. That is not going to guarentee they will not drive. Now, make them research it. Show them pictures of mangled people after being struck by a drunk driver, show them statistics of how many people are injured and/or killed, that is going to weigh much heavier on their brain. That is going to give them an indepth look that it CAN happen to anyone.



Out of those stats you provided, do you honestly think NONE of those teens knew the implications of driving drunk or after a few drinks? If you truly feel that, then I would have to say your method of teaching J, would only be done by yourself. Since, if it was a good method and truly taught these kids, it is obvious no one else does it. Otherwise, the rate of teen drinking and driving would be lower, right? Seriously, I believe there are several parents out there that do allow their child to drink at home, yet drinking and driving is still a big issue. They know better, they still do it. Over drinking as a teen is also a BIG issue. I guarentee, some of them have been allowed to drink at home. I dunno, I am just using my common sense here.



They are going to know how it feels to have a few drinks whether it is in your presence as a mother or not. It's crazy to think otherwise. You can make sure they don't drive after (when in your presence) but are you always going to be there?



Education, Education, Education. By example, By example, By example. Important stuff there. This is what is going to get through to them. You showing them "how" to drink, meh, that is only your opinion. I do not think it is going to make a big difference, unless you do everything else too. Which I can do without "showing" them what happens when they are drunk. They are going to know how they feel after drinking regardless of where they are. Now if they "only" drink at home, OK, you may have something there. I highly doubt this though. Unless you feel inclined to make a rule, that they cannot drink elsewhere? That won't go over very well, I don't think.



We have to educate and trust our kids understand when they get out the big bad world.



ETA:

I don't see your method as a terrible thing. It is just not going to make them more responsible, in my opinion. They are going to be responsible if they are taught to be such, with everything they do. Not just drinking. You have to raise a responsible child from childhood, not teach them in particular circumstances. If you have a child that has never learnt to be responsible, it is highly unlikely they will be while drinking. Regardless of how hard you try to teach them. ;)



If you teach them to be responsible children, they will be responsible teens. In most, if not all, things they do. This includes all those things you cannot "show" them how to do. You will just need to trust you did a good job with raising them and let them figure things out from there. Unless coddling them is a method, which I do not recommend. At some point in their lives they have to be set free to the big open world and we as parents have to sit back and trust how we raised them was good enough.



I should also mention that via stats, most kids that have tried alcohol did this in gr7,8 and 9. This is BEFORE the age of 16. So, when do you plan on giving your son a drink or helping him to learn how alcohol affects his body? If you want to get to him before the average kid tries alcohol, you should probably do this by age 12. I know I was 13 the first time I got drunk but I was 12 the first time I drank 3 shots from our fridge. ;)



The average age when youth first try alcohol is 11 years for boys and 13 years for girls.



By age 14, 41 percent of children have had least one drink.



The average age at which Americans begin drinking regularly is 15.9 years old.

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

"I have to disagree. As me, not being shown by my mother "how" to drink responsibly. I still knew it was wrong to drive OR get in a vehicle with a driver that has drank. We learnt this in school." --Meme



I understand that YOU knew not to, and trust that you didn't, but statistics show that the majority of teens who drink, despite having this rule repeatedly pounded into their minds by teachers, parents, and other well meaning adults, STILL risk driving after a few drinks because they do not feel fully intoxicated.



You are right, "everyone" knows not to drink and drive, yet people do:



Teenage drunk driving kills eight teens every day.

In 2003, 31% of teen drivers who died in car accidents had been drinking.

40% of alcohol-related fatal car crashes involve teens.

60% of all teen deaths in car accidents are alcohol related.



Why do they do it, despite knowing not to? Because they do not know how to feel their bodies reacting to the alcohol--ie. they don't know how drunk they are, and the only people around to tell them are other drunk kids who don't know how drunk they are. But if a kid has had drinks before with someone who can guide them, they will be more aware that they are not capable of driving whether they can feel the effects of the alcohol right now or not.





A good exercise is to play the game "Perfection" where you try to fit all the little pieces in the holes before the timer goes and the board PoPs.

Play sober and note the results, then have 1 drink and play again, noting the results. Drink a glass of water, then have a 2nd alcoholic drink, play again, and note the results. Repeat up to 4 drinks. This helps to teach teens that even though they do not feel much effect from the alcohol, the effects are there, and will have an impact on their ability to drive.

Another night, play sober and note the results, then drink as much as you are going to drink all at once, the way a teen might drink at a party (not too much though, that is dangerous) and play again right after you finish the drinks. Wait about 20 minutes and play again. Note that the game is much more difficult now even though no new drinks were consumed. This helps to teach teens to wait for the effect.



(Just to be clear, I'm not talking about 12 year olds here, I'm talking the 16 and up crowd.)

Next

Jen - posted on 03/23/2012

Meme, I stand corrected (well sit actually LOL) . That's really quite terrible.

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

Jen K--Jameson is my only whiskey too :) I might try the Limeaid next time--not sure if we have it here, but I'm sure we have something close.



Meme--No, I will not let him try a joint because smoking a joint is illegal here, whereas having a drink at home with parents legal here. I never said I would condone him drinking with peers--I certainly will not, and I intend to do everything I can do discourage it, but I am not naive and I'm fairly sure he will at some point, so I want him to be prepared. And no, I will not be letting him try cigarettes until he is 18, because again, it is illegal, whereas letting him have a drink is not. Furthermore, smoking does long term, permanent damage to the lungs--no one should do it. I managed to make it through high school without smoking anything, and without getting plastered. I wasn't perfect, but I was mature and responsible, so I drank responsibly, even from an early age. I expect my son to do the same.



You could also compare it to driving--you wouldn't have your kid write an essay on driving then put her behind the wheel of a car without some hands-on guidance from you or an instructor would you? No, because driving, like drinking (imo) is something that requires a lot of learning from experience.



Also, not all kids dislike drinking with their parents, personally, I love to kick back and have a drink with both my parents and my in-laws, and I have since I was young. Makes it easier to talk about difficult subjects.



If you would rather your child drink out on her own the first few years, that's fine, but I prefer to have mine experiment in a place where I can watch and guide him. I like to be near my son anytime he is doing something potentially dangerous.

Both of our methods are legal, and neither has been proven better than the next. (unless it's not legal where you are, in which case I fully support your decision not to give her any--I don't condone anything illegal.)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

Oh but they do... ;)



It is the in thing now Jen. Ask my daughter (well I know you can't really, so I did again). It is terrible. Absolutely terrible.



They even have names for the people that do it. Those that cut are called "Emo", those that dress oddly and wear large amounts of makeup for attention are called "Scene". Hence the names for being "emotional" and/or "scenetic".



I understand that there are some that cut due to severe depression and serious problems occuring around them. They are not able to control anything but cutting. It is sooo sad. I feel for these people. They deserve so much more.



I however, do not get the ones that are doing it for attention. It makes me mad. Why are their parents not noticing? There are groups of them at my daughter's school that do it, or at least try it. Meh. I don't understand.

Jen - posted on 03/23/2012

"Jen K--totally with you on the Whiskey! I LOVE Jameson Irish Whiskey, especially the 18 year reserve.....SO yummy :) I like it on the rocks with a wedge of lemon, but sometimes I mix it with Coke to keep from having too much.

"



I don't like it with pop. I love whiskey sours and if you can get Simply Limeade in your area , try that. Jameson is my only whiskey. I won't drink other kids. I"m picky that way. :)

Jen - posted on 03/23/2012

Jen--

We only had alcohol and dope when I was a teen. This whole cutting thing was not anything anyone did when I was growing up. 22 years ago, you could buy smokes at age 14. So that was an "in" thing too.



I don't get this whole cutting thing and frankly it makes me mad. It has not only become the "cool" thing to do, it has become "huge". My daughter has two friends that have done it. My daughter, thankfully, feels the same way I do about it. NASTY.

-----------

Cutting is not cool. Cutting is done when someone is in such extreme emotional pain that they need both an outlet and a way of contolling pain on their own. It makes me mad too but I've done it, I know from whence I speak. I honesty do not believe anyone inflicts harm on themselves because its' the 'in' thing.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

BTW:



All this talk has gave me a craving. I am going to have a caesar. We have had a 26 of vodka for a year in our freezer. It is 3/4 full. I am going to see how I do with one or two drinks today, on this fine Friday! lol



Check in later and let ya know, if I made it.... ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

At 16, a kid who's never drank before is very likely to feel like he can drive after 3 or 4 beers (for reasons I've stated above), then it hits them 15 minutes into the drive and they loose control.



I have to disagree. As me, not being shown by my mother "how" to drink responsibly. I still knew it was wrong to drive OR get in a vehicle with a driver that has drank. We learnt this in school.





Alcohol intoxication is different because it is ongoing. He may well decide that he's only going to have 3 when he starts, but if he is unaware of how his body responds, he may decide to have a 4th & 5th because he's not feeling a buzz yet--especially if he drank the first 3 quickly, but if he is aware, he will know at that point that he can wait a few minutes for his body to start processing the alcohol and he will get a buzz.



This is why it is important for them to be educated on alcohol. Every day is a different day and it is not practical to say that he will "always" feel the same after 3 drinks. It is better for them to understand the ramifications of alcohol in a whole. It is best that they understand the affects it has on the brain. This will allow them to decipher what is occurring when they "do" have a drink or two or more.... ;)



Are you going to let him smoke a joint at home too? In order to make sure he understands how that makes him feel? How about cigarettes? These are all things that are commonly tried amongst adolescents. I will make sure my child is educated on each subject. I can only trust she will make wise decisions therein after.



I was only trying to point out that you have learned through experience how you respond to it, it just took a little longer to learn because you were doing it on your own, without guidance.



This is not something that is going to be learnt in a period of a couple years. A young brain is just not mature enough. They actually have to experience inebriation a time or two before they get the point, if they get the point.



From my experience as a teen and a very bad teen at that. It doesn't matter if they drink at home first. I guarentee, if they are going to drink they are going to drink. If they are going to get drunk, they are going to get drunk. I think education is key, lead by example of the parent.



If I condone one illegal thing in my home, then it is hard to deny the next illegal thing.



However, I did say earlier that once my daughter is 17 or older. I will allow her to have a drink here and there at home (maybe). I will however, not be doing it to show her how she feels after several. She is going to have to figure that one out, as most people do.



She will also not be driving at 16, unless she has a job and can pay for it herself. Here you must be 16 for your license as well but, the first 2 years is very limited to what you are allowed (this is for any age, when first getting a license):



Once a road test has been successfully completed, the learner becomes Newly Licensed for a minimum of two years.



Operating conditions include:

1.Zero blood alcohol level for the newly licensed driver;

2.Only one front seat passenger and rear seat(s) passengers limited to the number of available seat belts;

3.No upgrade beyond a Class 5 driver's licence; and,

4.No driving between midnight and 5:00AM, unless accompanied by an experienced driver.

Michele - posted on 03/23/2012

One thing that I noticed is that there is no exception in CA (where I live), there is no exception for serving alcohol to minors based on religion, even with parental permission. The state could make a mint on first communions ;)



I remember at my nephew's first communion, I had a bird's eye view and he spit it back in. I am not Catholic so I wasn't eligible to take communion, but bleah...

America3437 - posted on 03/23/2012

There is nothing wrong with allowing your kids to taste alcholic beverages in my opinion. I think it would make them less likely to try it on their own. My 17 year old askes once in a blue moon if he can have 1 beer,and I let him. He is a good boy and has a 3.88 gpa in 11th grade. He is mature enough and smart enough to handle it. Now my 15yr old is no way mature enough to just drink a beer. I guess itjust depends on the child and the situation. I was raised by a bartender and spent many nights watching drunk people make fools of themselves! I have never drank to the point of lose of control. To me that is way beyond the stoppoing point!

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

"If it is not a preparation process like sex, then why would you be preparing him to know how to drink? To me it is the same. There is preparation methods in both. " --Meme



I am preparing him to drink because I want him to be able to drink without killing himself. I don't need to show him how to put his penis in a girl's vagina in order for him to have sex without killing himself. He will be in his right mind and sensible when choosing to put his condom on, what happens after that is not going to threaten his life or the lives of others.



Alcohol intoxication is different because it is ongoing. He may well decide that he's only going to have 3 when he starts, but if he is unaware of how his body responds, he may decide to have a 4th & 5th because he's not feeling a buzz yet--especially if he drank the first 3 quickly, but if he is aware, he will know at that point that he can wait a few minutes for his body to start processing the alcohol and he will get a buzz.







As I stated in my last post, it is NOT feasible to walk in our area, so our kids have to be educated on ways to get home. I am in a mountainous area, even a short 8 mile walk could take hours, and after drinking all night, most would be too dehydrated to make the hike back. Furthermore, because of the mountains, our roads are very curvy and have limited shoulders--a VERY dangerous walk for a drunk teen. Also, our state allows kids to drive alone at 16, which is about the age our teens start going to these parties. At 16, a kid who's never drank before is very likely to feel like he can drive after 3 or 4 beers (for reasons I've stated above), then it hits them 15 minutes into the drive and they loose control.







I was only trying to point out that you have learned through experience how you respond to it, it just took a little longer to learn because you were doing it on your own, without guidance.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

Btw, I agree with your method of having her research the topic and put it into her own words--I do the same with J for many issues. That said, I do not feel like it will prepare her for what her body will actually feel like when she is drunk because that is different for everyone and can only be learned from experience. Unfortunately, alcohol effects all of us differently, so her research will only give her a list of possibilities, and there is no way to make sure this knowledge stays on the forefront of her mind during intoxication. One of alcohol's first uses was to let us "forget ourselves".



Ahh, see my point to it all is she just may stay clear of the alcohol all together. ;) We will see. I do know though, that in the least, she will understand the implications of over doing it.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

It's not like sex at all. First, precautions for dealing with sex are made BEFORE sex begins, whereas with drinking, you have to continue to be on your toes, so to speak, during intoxication. The kids are not dealing with a mental response to toxins when they are getting ready to have sex--their minds are not altered (except by hormones). Second, having sex isn't going to kill them or put the lives of others at risk if they make the wrong decision--it could seriously change their lives if they are not cautious, but they aren't going to kill anyone if their technique is bad.



If it is not a preparation process like sex, then why would you be preparing him to know how to drink? To me it is the same. There is preparation methods in both.



It is reassuring that you do not drive or allow anyone else to when you drink. Unfortunately, in our area, you'd have to drive even to get to a field party (which I'm assuming is about the same as your bush parties) and not many broke teens are going to splurge on a cab. They are going to depend on a friend, and if they are too drunk to watch said friend, they have no idea whether that kid is drinking alcohol or pepsi all night.



This is when my daughter calls me... ;) I take cabs now, I did not when I was a teen. No, I couldn't afford it then. We walked. We have walked miles. ;) Mind you none of them had cars before age 16.



You DO know how you respond to alcohol--you know it takes less when you've not eaten, more when you have. You know that when you start, you'll drink until you're hammered. You may not have it down to a science, because you were never taught to drink, you never had that guidance (neither did I, but I turn everything into a science experiment and logged my reactions), but you know vaguely how your body responds from your past experiences.



I am now 36. I think from experience I would know by now. It has been 23 years since the first time I drank. Even according to the excerpt I gave for the drinking laws in NS. One drink can change your abilities and make you impaired. ;)



I'm not saying we should get our teens drunk every weekend, but I do think that the first 3-4 times a kid drinks more than a sip or two of alcohol, they should be in the home. Forcing them out of the home to drink is not going to make them drink less, it's just going to put them in a more vulnerable position when they do drink.



I disagree. First of all, kids don't want to drink at home. Those that do are going to drink less than when they are with their friends. As I previously mentioned. My husband was allowed to drink at home from the age of 15. He still went out an got smashed many o' times. He drove his car and he got into other's car's that were driving. I fail to see how letting them drink at home is going to keep them safe, when they are out.



Forcing them out of our home when they drink is not going to put them in a more vulernable position IF they have been educated. This does not mean they have to have drank before. A brain is a miraculous thing. It sucks in info like there is no tomorrow. Explaining and showing examples of what has happened to people, having them do research. Now this, is going to get them to an educated level.

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

Btw, I agree with your method of having her research the topic and put it into her own words--I do the same with J for many issues. That said, I do not feel like it will prepare her for what her body will actually feel like when she is drunk because that is different for everyone and can only be learned from experience. Unfortunately, alcohol effects all of us differently, so her research will only give her a list of possibilities, and there is no way to make sure this knowledge stays on the forefront of her mind during intoxication. One of alcohol's first uses was to let us "forget ourselves".

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

We'll start from the bottom...

It's not like sex at all. First, precautions for dealing with sex are made BEFORE sex begins, whereas with drinking, you have to continue to be on your toes, so to speak, during intoxication. The kids are not dealing with a mental response to toxins when they are getting ready to have sex--their minds are not altered (except by hormones). Second, having sex isn't going to kill them or put the lives of others at risk if they make the wrong decision--it could seriously change their lives if they are not cautious, but they aren't going to kill anyone if their technique is bad.



It is reassuring that you do not drive or allow anyone else to when you drink. Unfortunately, in our area, you'd have to drive even to get to a field party (which I'm assuming is about the same as your bush parties) and not many broke teens are going to splurge on a cab. They are going to depend on a friend, and if they are too drunk to watch said friend, they have no idea whether that kid is drinking alcohol or pepsi all night.



I KNOW my son will drink differently with his friends than he does with me. I'm not trying to prevent that, I just want him to know what to expect from his body. If he knows what being buzzed feels like, he will know when to ease off, and he will feel less pressured to keep drinking since he's already feeling good. Will he ease off? I don't know, but I know that he will have the experience to understand that he is taking a risk by going further with drinking, and make the right decisions while he is drunk.



You DO know how you respond to alcohol--you know it takes less when you've not eaten, more when you have. You know that when you start, you'll drink until you're hammered. You may not have it down to a science, because you were never taught to drink, you never had that guidance (neither did I, but I turn everything into a science experiment and logged my reactions), but you know vaguely how your body responds from your past experiences. I'm not saying we should get our teens drunk every weekend, but I do think that the first 3-4 times a kid drinks more than a sip or two of alcohol, they should be in the home. Forcing them out of the home to drink is not going to make them drink less, it's just going to put them in a more vulnerable position when they do drink.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

I should mention what a very important step to my educating my daughter on "alcohol" will be. This will take place within the next year. I will do this on several topics, including "alcohol", "smoking", "drugs", "protected/unprotected sex" and driving. I have done it on other topics previously.



My daughter will be asked to research the affects of alcohol on the body. She will be asked that once researched, she provides me with a 1 - 11/2 page, single spaced, typed report. It is to incompass different aspects, that I will lay out for her. She will be (and has in the past when I have done this) explained that this is NOT a punishment nor a disciplinary action on my part. When she is done and I have received and "marked it" per se. She will get something special. Perhaps a day of shopping for clothes or her hair done with highlights and/or straightened or a nice supper and movie with me.



For me this will help her understand much better than if I allow for her to drink in my presence before the legal age.



I have done this before on certain topics. At times it was a disciplinary method. Such as when she decided to leave her bedroom window open for hours while it was -15 outside. She had been told previously why she could not do such a thing, she did it again. She had to write me a page report on why it is not a good idea. She has never ever done it again. ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

Ahhh..



Kelly--

Of course everyone knows not to accept drinks or put drinks down, but once she's had a few, loosened up, she will probably get careless and do it, unless she is prepared for how her body responds. You said it yourself (at a different part of your post) you KNOW how you respond to alcohol, you know that once you start you won't stop. You know this from experience, not from someone telling you "this is how being drunk feels, this is what you need to be aware of." So we can let our kids get that experience on their own, or we can let them get it with us there to guide and teach them.



No, not everyone knows not to put their drinks down. Not everyone knows about "drink spiking", unless they have been taught. It was not prevalant when I was growing up, never ever heard of it.



Even if I did allow my child to have a drink or sip here and there. I surely would not be allowing them to get to the point where they were able to figure out their limit. I am not going to allow my child to get drunk. To me that is absurd. It is illegal where I live anyhow. You must be 19, there are no "unless you are at home with parents" part of our NS law.



It takes a few occasions to figure your limit out, did for me anyhow. I still don't really know my limit. Since if I only have one or two, I am good. However, if I hadn't eaten or am tired when started, I can actually get drunk off of two drinks. Other times, it takes 5 - 7 drinks for me to start feeling anything.



Kelly--

That is what scares the daylights out of me. Most people do remember the "night" as a whole, and they forget the details. When you cannot remember those details, that is a sure sign you were too far gone at the time they happened, and you may have made stupid decisions. Like, what if you got from bar A to bar B by driving a car?



Well you see, like I teach my child and do myself. We do not go to the bar via car. We take cabs. ;) Therefore, this scenario would and NEVER has happened to me. Why is anyone driving TO the bar anyhow or to a party, if they are planning on drinking? If you are the designated driver, you surely better not be drinking.



When I say I may not recall how I got from one bar to the next, it means, I do not recall if we turned "left" or "right" when we exited the 1st bar. ;)



Here in NS .05 is intoxication, this could happen from one drink. If you are caught driving at this percentage, you have a 7 day suspension, next time it is a 15 days, next time it is a license revocation for 30 days. Anything over .08 is an immediate license revocation for a year and a hefty fine.



Nova Scotia now has tougher penalties for people caught driving after they drink, even if they're not legally drunk under the Criminal Code.



Starting Tuesday, drivers who have a blood-alcohol level between 0.05 and 0.08 — under the legal limit — will lose their licence for seven days, up from 24 hours.



The suspension increases to 15 days for a second offence and 30 days for a third.



These drivers will have to pay a fee of $89.63 to get their licence reinstated.



Transportation Minister Bill Estabrooks said it's unacceptable to have even one beer before climbing behind the wheel.



Also when I was growing up, we weren't driving. We had "bush" parties. We all walked into the woods, set up and got smashed. I can tell you that after age 13, I already knew what it felt like to be hammered. I still did it from age 13-22. It is silly to me to think that if you allow your child to drink at home, that they will surely drink responsibly with their friends. It is a completely different atmosphere. Drinking with your Mom or drinking with your friends? Umm, not even close to the same. You don't have any peer pressuer whilst in your parents presence, you could whilst in your peer's (most do).



Kelly--

I think the only way we can insure they drink responsibly is to teach them how, through example, talking, and guided experience.

Absolutely. Although, this can be done without ever giving them a drink yourself. ;) It is kinda like sex. I will drill into my daughter how important protection is, I will show her how to use a condom on an object. Will I ever show her "how" to have safe sex? Absolutely NOT.



It is also the same as tobacco. I will educate her on how terrible it is. How it can kill you, just like alcohol. Will I ever get her to smoke one in front of me to show her it makes you sick the first few times of trying it? Absolutely NOT.

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

Meme--

Sorry, I didn't realize we were talking about kids under 12, somehow I got the impression we were talking about kids of all ages, including teens. Either way, I don't think it matters--they acquire the taste anyway, when they do it really doesn't have any effect on how responsibly they drink later one. I think the only way we can insure they drink responsibly is to teach them how, through example, talking, and guided experience.





Of course everyone knows not to accept drinks or put drinks down, but once she's had a few, loosened up, she will probably get careless and do it, unless she is prepared for how her body responds. You said it yourself (at a different part of your post) you KNOW how you respond to alcohol, you know that once you start you won't stop. You know this from experience, not from someone telling you "this is how being drunk feels, this is what you need to be aware of." So we can let our kids get that experience on their own, or we can let them get it with us there to guide and teach them. I would much rather my son have my guidance than to be out with uneducated friends who are just trying to drink each other under the table when learning how to handle his drink.





"I may forget a little thing here or there, like how I got from one bar to the next but in the most part, I recall the "night".--Meme

That is what scares the daylights out of me. Most people do remember the "night" as a whole, and they forget the details. When you cannot remember those details, that is a sure sign you were too far gone at the time they happened, and you may have made stupid decisions. Like, what if you got from bar A to bar B by driving a car? or getting into a car with someone else who'd been drinking but maybe not as much? It may have ended well, but you could have put a lot of lives at risk. I have a special Hatred for drunk drivers...I'm a bit passionate there.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

Same here Jenni

I drank a lot because of an abusive childhood. Plus no one cared where I was or what I was doing. Thus, starting drinking at age 13 in my room.



Which may also be why for me, it is all or nothing when I drink. I drank extremly heavy from age 13 - 22. A good 4 nights a week.



I mean, I can have A drink while at home. It makes me feel shitty though. I have to keep going in order to keep feeling good. So, I just don't do it.



I agree too, I do not recommend getting plasterd! Although, many do it. Especially here in Halifax. We have so many pubs and bars. You don't hear of real bad things happening too often though. So, it is all about knowing your limit. Which, you are not going to know until you have experienced what that limit is, a few times. ;)

Jenni - posted on 03/23/2012

As an adult, it's the hangovers that deter me. ;)



I don't remember the last time I consumed more than 3 alcoholic beverages in a 24 hour period. And I generally only drink in the summer on a gorgeous day or when we go camping. Where I sip at a pina colada or something summery.



As a teen/young adult, I drank like a fish. And didn't get hangovers until my early 20's. I never blacked out or didn't remember things. I know some people do. I did however, make a lot of poor decisions. And I wouldn't recommend it. I don't attribute it to having a glass of wine as a kid. I wasn't a huge fan of it then and didn't care for the taste. I drank a lot because I came from an abusive childhood and didn't care much about myself or the consequences.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

is to sip at something virgin in between drinks. Something that still tastes good and they enjoy. But a filler. So they're not continually drinking alcohol, no?



Awesome idea Jenni! Love it!

Jenni - posted on 03/23/2012

In my experience Kelly, a lot don't. Some did of course. But most I knew didn't. Either they were never taught to drink responsibly or they just didn't care or think ahead to bring something non-alcoholic to a party.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

Also, I don't think giving them alcohol at home is going to help them "acquire the taste" any more than drinking it at parties would. Most people eventually like it whether they had it at home first, or had it at a party first.



Kelly--

From most responses here that would let their child have a sip here and there, they are speaking of kids under 12. What kids under 12 are going to parties to drink? This is where I "do" believe they could acquire a taste for alcohol. Over time of tasting it here and there, your taste buds get "use" to the taste. That goes for anything. My daughter has never really liked pepper but over time of me adding it to our dinners, she now asks for it. ;) She developed a taste for it. This is where I was coming from.



I do however, agree with Jenni and Krista. It doesn't matter if they have tasted it or not as a young person. If they are going to drink, they are going to drink. If it is heavy or binge drinking then that is what it will be. Having it as a young kid is not going to change that. However, them seeing their parents having a drink here and there in social settings, would help them understand that there IS a social side to drinking. It does not need to be a complete drunk fest. Including talking and conversing with them. Being open to all their questions. Showing them examples, whether the internet or TV. I know I do it. My daughter is utterly disgusted when she see's them drunk and making fools of themselves. Let alone, being rapped or having the date rape drug slipped in your drink. Something else I have explained clearly to her. I told her, if she is ever drinking anything at any party, to NEVER EVER accept a drink from someone OR put her drink down!



Also, I never understood why people get shit faced. You don't remember the night, you're likely to do something stupid, and it feels like hell the next day. Why not stop when you feel good and drink some water?



When I do drink, I get shit faced because I am one "happy" drunk. I am always at a bar. I cannot drink sitting around, makes me not feel well. However, at a bar? I can drink anyone under the table. I have never ever not remembered the night before. I may forget a little thing here or there, like how I got from one bar to the next but in the most part, I recall the "night". I also do NOT get hang over's. I puke the night of (once I get home and away from the noise, I don't feel good, the noise and excitement does something to my brain, that keeps it moving.), then I am good to go! lol I also drink a lot of water BEFORE I go drinking. It definitely helps to not feel shitty the next day.



ETA:

I do think most kids drink to fit in. If they are at a party, they will drink whatever is there, whether they like it or not--who wants to be the only sober kid at the party just because they have Miller instead of Bud?

Exactly! I grew up with many teens that drank whatever and it most definitely was not their preference. They didn't care. We were all drinking, that was a planned action and we drank whatever we had in our hands reach.

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

" sip at something virgin in between drinks. Something that still tastes good and they enjoy. But a filler. So they're not continually drinking alcohol, no? " Jenni



Oddly, I thought that was how everyone drinks :P I always have a glass of water between alcoholic drinks, some of my other friends drink sports drinks or even soda in between. There has to be time for the body to respond or you'll be hammered before you ever even feel the light "buzz" which would suck. Also, wouldn't they get dehydrated?

Jenni - posted on 03/23/2012

I think part of the reason is; if you stop drinking at a party let's say, you begin to crash. You get tired feeling. At least that was my experience. Plus, as your inhibitions go down it's easier to say yes to the next drink. The best way to drink (for fun) and probably something I will drill home to my kids if they decide to drink as teens... is to sip at something virgin in between drinks. Something that still tastes good and they enjoy. But a filler. So they're not continually drinking alcohol, no?

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

Also, I never understood why people get shit faced. You don't remember the night, you're likely to do something stupid, and it feels like hell the next day. Why not stop when you feel good and drink some water?

Kelly - posted on 03/23/2012

Jen K--totally with you on the Whiskey! I LOVE Jameson Irish Whiskey, especially the 18 year reserve.....SO yummy :) I like it on the rocks with a wedge of lemon, but sometimes I mix it with Coke to keep from having too much.



I do think most kids drink to fit in. If they are at a party, they will drink whatever is there, whether they like it or not--who wants to be the only sober kid at the party just because they have Miller instead of Bud? That is specifically why I want J to have had alcohol before he ends up at said party. I don't want him going out ant doing 10 shots just to look good with no idea what effect alcohol will take on his mind and body.



Alcohol tremendously impairs judgement. I know several teens who were always very careful about sex--always use protection, only with boys they were in long term relationships with, etc.--who got pregnant or got an STD because they got drunk and lost all inhibition. These girls KNEW right from wrong, they knew the behavior they were engaging in was dangerous, but under the influence of alcohol, it just didn't occur to them until the next morning. So your child can tell you "I will call you if I get drunk" all they want to, but they don't know for sure until they are under the influence. Under the influence of alcohol, most people feel invincible, they don't realize how slow their reaction times are, they don't hear their slurred speech, unless they are trained to look for these signs. That is when they get stupid and try to drive because they want to avoid the wrath of mom. In their minds, they know it's wrong, but they think "I'll be fine, it won't happen to me," and they won't realize that is the alcohol talking unless they know how their mind and body responds to it.





Also, I don't think giving them alcohol at home is going to help them "acquire the taste" any more than drinking it at parties would. Most people eventually like it whether they had it at home first, or had it at a party first.

Jenni - posted on 03/23/2012

I do think context plays a big part. If a family has a few drinks on a special occasion but no one's getting completely inebriated, they are drinking responsibly. No one drives drunk. Children will learn from their parents and family how alcohol is enjoyed responsibly.



But if a family gets drunk and abuses alcohol, children will grow up thinking that's normal and are probably more likely to abuse alcohol themselves. I don't agree with letting teens get drunk at your house because a parent feels it's safer. I would never allow that in my house because to me it's giving the teen mixed signals. That it's ok to get shit-faced. And it's not. Alcohol should be enjoyed responsibly and in moderation.

Jenni - posted on 03/23/2012

My family is northern European. On special occasions (Christmas Eve) we (the cousins) were allowed to have a glass of wine with dinner starting between 8-10 years old. It was never really treated as a big deal. Just heightened your taste buds for your dinner.



I think far more goes into whether or not people drink in their teens or grow up to have drinking problems than having a few sips with the family. The purpose was never to get drunk. It was about waking up your taste buds. Some of my cousins (including myself) drank a lot as teens and young adults. But more didn't, than did; I attribute it to other factors not that I had a glass of wine on Christmas eve and Easter as a kid. I don't believe anyone on that side of the family drinks heavily or has been a problem drinker. I'm sure there are (every family seems to have them). But no one is springing to mind. It's generally treated as a social event and is rarely abused.



My dad's side of the family are very closed minded about alcohol (my grandparents in particular) and most of them have/had drinking/drug problems. :/ Not saying that's the cause. Just that far more factors go into alcohol abuse.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/23/2012

Jen--

We only had alcohol and dope when I was a teen. This whole cutting thing was not anything anyone did when I was growing up. 22 years ago, you could buy smokes at age 14. So that was an "in" thing too.



I don't get this whole cutting thing and frankly it makes me mad. It has not only become the "cool" thing to do, it has become "huge". My daughter has two friends that have done it. My daughter, thankfully, feels the same way I do about it. NASTY.



Again, in reference to my comment about kids not "liking" the taste of alcohol but doing it to fit in. I still think that holds true for many, not all no (as Jaime, quickly corrected me). Especially, as you said, there are so many different "tasty" drinks made now. However, in my experience (man, I am beginning to feel old), we did not have all these "tasty" drinks 20-23 years ago. So, I am sure in nowadays, some do like the tasts.



My daughter HATES the smell of any alcohol. So far, so good! ;)

Stifler's - posted on 03/23/2012

I would let them have a taste maybe but their own glasses probably not until like 16. And I won't be supplying grog for piss ups. The most important thing for me is my kids not seeing me and my husband getting shit faced but enjoying alcohol responsibly. Having a few quiet drinks rather than having parties where everyone gets off their face and spews is more important than banning alcohol.

Jen - posted on 03/22/2012

"The fact is teens don't drink because they "like" the taste. They drink because they want to fit in and often end up drunk. I think if I let them have sips here and there, they may acquire a taste for it, which may make it more likely for them to "enjoy" the taste while trying to fit in."



I don't know if that's true. I alwasy liked the taste of whiskey - straight. With more and more drinks these days being designed to taste like soda and sweet juices, I'm actually quite sure that more are drinking because it does taste good.



I never drank to fit in. I drank because I liked it, I liked the feeling of bring intoxicated and it was better than cutting.



But I am not the rule, thankfully.

Jen - posted on 03/22/2012

When I was a toddler, I used to sneak my father's martinis while he was in the other room. My son has decided he just can't stand the scent of alcohol. To each his own.

Jaime - posted on 03/22/2012

omg "lord's supper" (what we called communion) was murderous on me. i was in my early teens and going through a phase where i didn't eat as much and exercised all the time (my parents called it anorexia, but i still ate three square meals a day) and my neighbors would take me to church and i would be soooo hungry...and that grape juice just made it worse. i could totally have eaten that entire plate of bread, too. i was such a bad baptist, lol!

Sherri - posted on 03/22/2012

My kids still get wine every Sunday for communion in the Catholic church.

Rebecca - posted on 03/22/2012

It just occurred to me that back in the day, most Catholic kids would have had a taste on wine at each communion. Or does the HRCC still use actual wine? Strange as it might seem, if just a sip were to somehow start some dangerous downward spiral - some folks have church to blame.



I went mainly to prot. churches growing up (and then none at all) and it was grape juice all the way. I have not become a grape juice abuser, but I did sneak in one time when I was hungry to eat a lot of the "body of Christ" and I still love me some wafers.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/22/2012

You remember that shit eh' Krista? lol



I remember it all too well. I was 13, my girlfriend and I sat outside the liquor store (back when it wasn't that big of a deal for selling to minors) and begged an old man to take our $20 and buy us an $8 jug of Rockaberry. We went back to my house (meanwhile my Mom was upstairs) and chugged it in my room. I barfed hard that night! lol Turned me off from then on in.



All my girlfriends loved it though. It was the famous "girl" drink back then. I moved on to Lemon Gin, they stuck with their Rockaberry. Good times! hehehee



P.S

I don't know how the hell we survived! *raised eyebrow*



ETA:

My Mom never talked to me about alcohol either. She was out partying 4 nights a week instead.... *sigh*

Krista - posted on 03/22/2012

Holy fuck, MeMe -- Rockaberry coolers. Does THAT ever bring back memories!!! Whee!



And yeah, with my kids, I'll probably let them have a tiny taste on VERY special occasions when they're 12 and older. I don't think that being either permissive OR strict with alcohol really have that big of an effect on future drinking. My friend's mom was super-strict, and mine is French ('nuff said), but when we both got to university, we both drank like it was our job. Mind you, my mom never really TALKED to me about drinking, so maybe that's the key.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/22/2012

Kelly--



Even at age 36, for me, it is ALL about getting a buzz and hammered! lol



Sorry, I hear what you are saying, I just had to throw that in there. Since, as I said earlier, it is all or nothing for me.



I do wanna say though, that my daughter, even though I will not be giving her a drink before age 17, will know she can always call me. She knows this now, too. This is the biggest reason I bought her a cell phone. She can call me anytime when she needs me. I will be right there. I might be a bit pissed off but she also knows it is better to have me a bit mad than to put herself in a position she cannot control. She calls me now, when she is 2 blocks away and it is dark out. If she has no one to walk home with, she calls Mom and I go and get her... ;) She doesn't have to, it is not a rule. She does it because she doesn't feel safe.

Kelly - posted on 03/22/2012

It is legal in SC too, under certain circumstances.



J will be given alcoholic drinks in our home when he gets to an age where I think he might be persuaded to drink by friends. I want him to learn how his body reacts to it so that he can make informed decisions while he is out.



Many teens do not realize they are drunk until they are hammered. I want J to be tuned in enough to recognize the "buzz" before he's three sheets to the wind. By that time, teens are not usually able to make logical decisions--that is when they get into a car and kill themselves.



Furthermore, by not making it completely off limits, J will know that he can call me if he is drinking and will not try to drive. A lot of kids have died because they were too scared to tell their parents they had a drink or two at a party.



In addition to trust and sensitivity, I want J to know how to drink responsibly. I teach him that by letting him watch me drink. I want him to know that there is more to enjoying a drink than getting a buzz and getting hammered. They do taste good, and they can help us relax after a stressful day or loosen us up at a party.

Kaitlin - posted on 03/22/2012

Meme, TOTALLY. I think another contributing factor for myself was that I saw first hand what alcohol abuse can do, so I never desired that. I enjoy alcohol, but like every good thing, it can go to far, it's up to us to know what that is.



Plus, boys are silly. My father, for example, very strict, straight arrow, was an idiot when he was a teenager. Aren't most boys? lol. Except mine of course. They will be perfect and obey every rule, and never do anything wrong ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/22/2012

LOL - I so hear you Jodi! I am the same. It is all or nothing for me too. So, I just don't do it. ;)



I do however drink non-alcoholic caesars every couple weeks. I really like the taste of them. mmmm



I agree that it is very important for a child, especially a teen, to understand how to drink in moderation and that it is OK to have one here and there. I just believe there are other ways to teach them then to actually show them (by giving it to them). Mind you, she see's DH have a beer here and there. Which is a good teaching method for her, I think. Not that he is thinking he is teaching her while he has a beer but, she see's that it is OK every once in a while.



I spend a lot of time conversing with my daughter about life. Drinking and sex are two of the hot topics, in my home right now. I have explained to her on several occassion that there is nothing wrong with a social drink here and there. It is acceptable and can be rather enjoyful when with a couple friends. I have also explained what can happen if you drink too much. She gets to ask as many questions as she wants, as well as give her 2 cents for how she feels about it (even though she has not experienced it) and/or how she understands.



However, I would allow her to have a drink (A drink) at home, with my supervision at age 17 or so. I may have one with her - if I get DH to hide the bottle, so I don't go overboard! What a lesson that would be eh? MOM'S DRUNK and she IS DANCING ON THE COUCH!! lol

Jodi - posted on 03/22/2012

Little Miss, sorry I didn't get back sooner. Library night with my oldest! :) As you can see, it is very legal, and it actually happens quite often here. Then again, Wisconsin has the highest drinking rates in the United States, makes me kind of sad. :(



http://www.statemaster.com/graph/hea_alc...



MeMe, I will let my kids have a sip here and there at my husband's discretion. I do not drink, my father was a raging alcoholic, my sister is border-line (and personally, I think she's full on too) and I have problems drinking in moderation...basically I can't, it's all or nothing. So, I no longer period. So, I leave it up to my husband, if he has a drink, then I would be fine if the kids had a drink too (not now obviously, they're only 3 and 1!!!). But I can see your point, it is easier to drink a lot of you like what you're drinking, I just think it's more important to show your children how to drink in moderation, that it's okay to have one now and again, but you don't need to get drunk or drink every night. I'm not saying you don't do that, that's just my two cents, unfortunately, I can only show my children the sober side of things lol

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/22/2012

Kaitlin---



My husband is Italian and so is his Dad. He was allowed to drink at home and he was more than a heavy drinker as a teen outside the home too.... I guess it is different for all kids. ;)

Jaime - posted on 03/22/2012

mike's is very good O.O strawberry daiquiri, mmmm....

Kaitlin - posted on 03/22/2012

Yes, it's legal here in CT too. We grew up like that. To be fair, my family is more than a little Italian, lol ;)



On the flip side, I never drank outside of the home, to fit in or otherwise. In college I didn't even drink at all until I was 21. I had my first drink on my 21st bday :D

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/22/2012

True true... I guess, once again I am going by my friends I grew up with. While the guys LOVED the taste, most of us girls did not. We still chugged it though. ;) We were doing it to fit in and have a good time. You know, enjoy teenhood. Not many kids like the taste, some do though, I suppose. Those coolers are DISGUSTING! ;)



I cannot stand the smell of beer either. If my husband drinks it he has to sleep on the couch! LOL



ETA:

Mind you back then, there were very few coolers. There was no such thing as Mikes Hard lemonade or Smirnoff twists or coolers. You bought 2 litre jugs of Rockaberry or something gross like that. We just drank Lemon Gin, straight!

Jaime - posted on 03/22/2012

MeMe, i must disagree with the idea that it's a "fact" teens only drink to fit in. none of my friends drank because they wanted to fit in, they really did like the taste. also none of my friends liked beer so they didn't drink it. they went more for mixed drinks or flavored vodka. Smirnoff and Sangria were their favorites.



as for myself, i only drink with my husband and only once or twice a year. i've only ever bought wine coolers, haha, and before i got married i only ever had wine or flavored vodka. i can't stand beer or alcohol that smells like it. i can't even stand it on someone's clothes, just like i can't stand smoke. but wine i'll make an exception ;P