Is the Republican Party turning into a cult?

Jenny - posted on 08/21/2009 ( 78 moms have responded )

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-har...



Something strange has happened in America in the nine months since Barack Obama was elected. It has best been summarized by the comedian Bill Maher: "The Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved to a mental hospital."



The election of Obama -- a center-left black man -- as a successor to George W. Bush has scrambled the core American right's view of their country. In their gut, they saw the US as a white-skinned, right-wing nation forever shaped like Sarah Palin. When this image was repudiated by a majority of Americans in a massive landslide, it simply didn't compute. How could this have happened? How could the cry of "Drill, baby, drill" have been beaten by a supposedly big government black guy? So a streak that has always been there in the American right's world-view -- to deny reality, and argue against a demonic phantasm of their own creation -- has swollen. Now it is all they can see.



Since Obama's rise, the US right has been skipping frantically from one fantasy to another, like a person in the throes of a mental breakdown. It started when they claimed he was a secret Muslim, and -- at the same time -- that he was a member of a black nationalist church that hated white people. Then, once these arguments were rejected and Obama won, they began to argue he was born in Kenya and secretly smuggled into the United States as a baby, and the Hawaiian authorities conspired to fake his US birth certificate. So he is ineligible to rule and the office of President should pass to... the Republican runner-up, John McCain.



These aren't fringe phenomena: a Research 2000 poll found that a majority of Republicans and Southerners say Obama wasn't born in the US, or aren't sure. A steady steam of Republican congressmen have been jabbering that Obama has "questions to answer." No amount of hard evidence -- here's his birth certificate, here's a picture of his mother heavily pregnant in Hawaii, here's the announcement of his birth in the local Hawaiian paper -- can pierce this conviction.



This trend has reached its apotheosis this summer with the Republican Party claiming en masse that Obama wants to set up "death panels" to euthanize the old and disabled. Yes: Sarah Palin really has claimed -- with a straight face -- that Barack Obama wants to kill her baby.



You have to admire the audacity of the right. Here's what's actually happening. The US is the only major industrialized country that does not provide regular healthcare to all its citizens. Instead, they are required to provide for themselves -- and just under 50 million people can't afford the insurance. As a result, 18,000 US citizens die every year needlessly, because they can't access the care they require. That's equivalent to six 9/11s, every year, year on year. Yet the Republicans have accused the Democrats who are trying to stop all this death by extending healthcare of being "killers" -- and they have successfully managed to put them on the defensive.



The Republicans want to defend the existing system, not least because they are given massive sums of money by the private medical firms who benefit from the deadly status quo. But they can't do so honestly: some 70 percent of Americans say it is "immoral" to retain a medical system that doesn't cover all citizens. So they have to invent lies to make any life-saving extension of healthcare sound depraved.



A few months ago, a recent board member for several private health corporations called Betsy McCaughey noticed a clause in the proposed healthcare legislation that would pay for old people to see a doctor and write a living will. They could stipulate when (if at all) they would like to be withdrawn. It's totally voluntary. Many people want it: I know I wouldn't want to be kept alive for a few extra months if I was only going to be in agony and unable to speak. But McCaughey started the rumor that this was a form of euthanasia, where old people would be forced to agree to death. This was then stretched somehow to include the disabled. It was flatly untrue -- but the right had their talking point, Palin declared the system "downright evil", and they were off.



It's been amazingly successful. Now, every conversation about healthcare has to begin with a Democrat explaining at great length that, no, they are not in favor of killing the elderly -- while Republicans get away with defending a status quo that kills 18,000 people a year. The hypocrisy was startling: when Sarah Palin was Governor of Alaska, she encouraged citizens there to take out living wills. Almost all the Republicans leading the charge against "death panels" have voted for living wills in the past. But the lie has done its work: a confetti of distractions has been thrown up, and support is leaking away from the plan that would save lives.



These claims have become so detached from reality that they often seem like black comedy. The right-wing magazine US Investors' Daily claimed that if Steven Hawking had been British, he would have been allowed to die at birth by its "socialist" healthcare system. Hawking responded with a polite cough that he is British, and "I wouldn't be here without the NHS." Frank Laffer, the right-wing economist lauded by David Cameron, claimed on CNN that it would be a disaster if the government got its hands on Medicare, the program providing healthcare for the elderly, paid for entirely by... the government.



This tendency to simply deny inconvenient facts and invent a fantasy-world isn't new; it's only becoming more heightened. It ran through the Bush years like a dash of bourbon in water. When it became clear Saddam Hussein had no Weapons of Mass Destruction, the US right simply claimed they had been shipped to Syria. When the scientific evidence for man-made global warming became unanswerable, they claimed, as one Republican congressman put it, that it was "the greatest hoax in human history", and all the world's climatologists were "liars". The American media then presents itself as an umpire between "the rival sides", as if they both had evidence behind them.



It's a shame, because there are some areas in which a conservative philosophy -- reminding us of the limits of grand human schemes, and advising caution -- could be a useful corrective. But that's not these what so-called "conservatives" are providing: instead, they are pumping up a hysterical fantasy, that is only a thin skin covering raw economic interests and base prejudices.



For many of the people at the top, this is mere cynical manipulation: one of Bush's former advisors, David Kuo, has said the President and Karl Rove would mock evangelicals as "nuts" as soon as they left the Oval Office. But the ordinary Republican base believe it. They are being cruelly manipulated into opposing their own interests through false fears and invented demons. Last week, one of the Republicans sent to disrupt a healthcare town hall started a fight and was injured -- and then complained he had no health insurance. I didn't laugh; I wanted to weep.



Indeed, if you spend any time with American right-wingers -- as I have, reporting undercover on events like the National Review cruise and the Christian Coalition Solidarity Tour of Israel -- you soon find that your arguments don't center on philosophy. You have to concentrate on correcting basic factual errors about the real world.



They insist Europe has fallen to Islam, since Muslims immigrants are becoming a majority and are imposing sharia law. In reality, Muslims make up 3 percent of the population of Europe, and most of them oppose sharia law. They insist Franklin Roosevelt caused the Great Depression, and should have cut government spending. In reality, whenever he did cut spending -- as he tried periodically throughout the 1930s -- the economy began to tank. But explain this patiently -- with a thousand sources -- and they simply shriek that you are lying, and they know "in their heart" what is true. They insist gay marriage would cause the institution of the family to collapse. In reality, where it has already been introduced in Europe, heterosexual families continue just as before. On the list goes: evolution is a lie, a blastocyst is akin to a baby, torture produces actionable intelligence...



How do they train themselves to be so impervious to reality? It begins, I suspect, with religion. They are taught from a young age that it is good to have "faith" -- which is, by definition, a belief without any evidence to back it up. You don't have "faith" Australia exists, or fire burns: you have evidence. You only need "faith" to believe the untrue or unprovable. Indeed, they are taught that faith is the highest aspiration and most noble cause. Is it any surprise this then percolates into their political views? Faith-based thinking spreads and contaminates the rational.



Up to now, Obama has not responded well to this onslaught of unreason. He has tried to conciliate the elite economic interests, and joke about the fanatical fringe they are stirring up. He has shamefully assured the pharmaceutical companies that an expanded healthcare system will not use the power of government as a purchaser to bargain down drug prices, while wryly saying that he "doesn't want to kill Grandma." Rather than challenging these hard interests and bizarre fantasies aggressively, he has tried to flatter and soothe them. His healthcare plan is weaker and harder to explain as a result.



But this kind of mania can't be co-opted: it can only by over-ruled. Sometimes in politics you will have enemies, and they must be democratically defeated. The political system cannot be gummed up by a need to reach out to the maddest people with the maddest fears. There is no way to expand healthcare without angering Big Pharma and the Republicaloons. So be it. As Arianna Huffington put it, "It is as though, at the height of the civil rights movement, you thought you had to bring together Martin Luther King and George Wallace and make them agree. It's not how change happens."



However strange it seems, the Republican Party really is spinning off into a bizarro-cult who believe Barack Obama is a baby-killer plotting to build death panels for the grannies of America. Their new slogan should be -- shrill, baby, shrill.

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

JL - posted on 08/25/2009

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I wish more Americans would read about politics and history in thorough detail when it comes to understanding the laws of this nation but also the history of this nation BECAUSE when I was referring to reading history books I was referring to the standard conservative American arguement concerning Christianity as THE basis for this nation. So to get across what I was stating I am pasting something I have posted in this community before concerning America and our religious foundation as connected to our government.



As a professional historian I get so tired of people using the arguement..our founding fathers were Christian and based our nation on Christianity.. as if Christianity should only be counted as some all encompassing monolothic ideal. Sorry but our founding fathers had a whole different set of ideas when it came to religion, spirituality, and the meaning of Christianity . The most pious man was John Adams and he was a untitarian who thought that the bible was an interpretation written by men who had flaws and therefore the bible has flaws. Jefferson like to use phrases containing God but his ideal of God does not represent the standard ideals under Christianity that all most modern Christians follow...Jefferson favored himself more as a deist. I mean come on Jefferson took the time to write his own version of the bible in order to take out all the parts pertaining to miracles....turning water to wine, jesus rising from the dead and so on. I get so irritated when people are so willing to uphold Thomas Paine's words yet they do little to recognize that he was also a diest as was Benjamin Franklin. Diest believed that there is one God but not God as represented under Christian principles. They believed in natural laws and rights and a form of natural religion based on human reason not on revelations.



And the idea of separation of church and state was discussed in a number of different writings and has always been considered by many great thinkers to be the main basis of our government. Madison the father of our Constitution wrote in many different letter and spoke in many different speeches about how he upheld a "total separation of the church from the state."-1819 letter to Robert Walsh.



Our Constitution was fashioned under the prevailing examples of history like the Magna Carta all of which use phrases pertaining to God. It was common word usage but it meant something different to each man and woman so to claim that one specific religious idealism based on the concept of Christainity is what this nation is based on is an affront to our history.





As far as laws and politicans go..Well I do not agree with everything that goes on with the Demcratic party and I do not agree with everything Obama does or does not do but I want BOTH sides to give off their high horses and work together. Believe me I am pissed at Obama for not taking down DOMA, for not ending illegal Wiretapping, for not pushing against some of the Bush foreign policy, for not coming out early on Healthcare and talking directly to the people, for pushing cap and trade bills that don't do anything signinficant...there are a list of things I am irritated with and I send many emails to my representatives and to the Democratic party letting that be known.



My main problem with the Republican party and with most Americans is I hear more bitching, whining, and crazy talk then I hear any actual clear solidified suggestions or any positive and active interactions.The way things are being conducted right now is a complete turnoff. I stood against my fellow Democratic Liberals when they acted like morons when Bush was in office and I stand against Republican conservatives now acting like morons with Obama in office. Morons reach within all parties and they all just keep us from accomplishing anything.



It really pisses me off when I hear Republican representatives and the leaders of the conservative party openly say they will not put out any health care plans of their own. That they are hanging onto their main plans because they want to just ride the public fury and let things fail. GOOD JOB doing NOTHING but letting us all here in the public tear eachother apart. How about they all start working for US and start doing their jobs. Maybe if they offered up some plans that were not backed by pharmacuetical companies and insurance lobbyist I could take the bitching seriously. I am just tired of all this shit. Both sides have screwed up our healthcare system, our eduational system, our economic system, our foreign policy but it is our faults as Americans for spending most of our time complaining and listening to talk radio rather than demanding that the lobbyists back off and pushing our represenatives to do the right thing.



I just wonder for all those who complain and are so willing all of the sudden to show up at town hall meetings, act like morons in public, use inciteful rhetoric, call Obama Hitler, call Liberals like me socialists, how many of them have ever actually fully taken part in an election besides casting a vote, how many read the Federalist papers, and Constitutional theory, how many are familiar with the fact that most of our laws and foreign policy ideas are rooted in Cold War ideology that did not work then and still does not work now. Change is a scary thing but damn it has got to happen at some point before we destroy this nation with all our fear mongering and threats. Both sides need to demand more from our representatives. The Democrats need to get their crap together and the Republicans need to stop retreating to ideological extremeist ideas so that people like me who want to work across the lines will not RUN AWAY beacuse WE DON'T WANT TO BE PREACHED AT ANYMORE! Serioulsy leave religion out..Separation of church and state is rooted in our government.

Jeannette - posted on 08/24/2009

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Quoting Konda:

People are allowed to disagree with the president just not Obama, any other prez is fair game. They called Bush an idiot and Clinton much worse(those those names were correct), yet if you speak against Obama, then you are either crazy or racist. I am so sorry that I find the whole health care system being flushed further down the toliet...is it perfect, hell no, but if the Senate(Democrats) find it so appealing then why wont any of them be on it? I am very conservative, but I do not follow Rush nor as a Catholic do I "pray to Mary" as someone said in an earlier post. I didn't like what Obama stood for during the election though it was hard to tell exactly WHAT he stood for since he changed his CHANGE so many times. Like the damn "Cars for Clunkers" which I am totally against anyway, but on Monday they came out and said they were adding money to the program and continuing this GREAT program, then on Thursday it was announced that it was being terminated.

I am neither racist nor crazy(not where my country is concerned)....yet something has to be done. I am sick to death of everything being laid on Bush...was Obama not a senator during Bush's tenor? Does the prez make all the laws and everything without the senate's approval??? DUHHHHHH!


Yes Konda....Obama did change his stance, before, during, and after his election.  It just depended on who he was debating at the time, and who's forum was winning support.  Why is it obvious when Clinton, Bush, McCain, or any other politician does it...but they go deaf when Obama does it???  Maybe it is completely acceptable...he is the Messiah.



I agree, our healthcare system needs an overhaul.  What amazes me the most, and I hope you ladies are all paying attention; the people who don't want it passed:  1.They don't want it passed because they are being fed misinformation by their conservative show hosts. 2. They are selfish greedy cretens, who don't want others' health needs met, because they are lucky enough to have not only insurance, but GOOD insurance where they themselves don't go bankrupt. 3. They're just plain psycho, crazy.....whatever you call a group of impassioned people who would like answers to ALL of their questions.



The people who do want it passed NOW:  1. Get most of their information from their own news sources, who again, tell them what is in the pkg. (and they can even type verbatim what said shows are saying)  2.  They are selfish greedy cretens who want a national health care plan passed now without knowing all of the answers themselves.  3.  They are psycho, crazy.....whatever you call a group of impsassioned people who would like health insurance no matter how it affects their neighbors.  



Sorry liberals, but that is how this one plays out, scare tactics or no...shouldn't your neighbor be represented in at least getting their questions answered?   No, take the money and run then?  I've been asking questions from the beginning.  I haven't slung mud at anyone...up until this post ;0)....and I don't feel as if MY REPRESENTATIVES are answering all of the questions that are being put forth.  Hey, some people don't have time to learn legal ease then sit down with an over 1000 page bill BEFORE the Sept. deadline. 



How about this?  How about we pass this bill...questions unanswered and all...because a minority of the people will benefit from it.  There are over 300,000,000 people in the US...CIA page. Now, of  those people, roughly 40 to 50 million don't have ins. or adequate ins.  That is 1/6 of the population.  The middle class will carry this tax burden as well.  We don't have the same tax shelters as our affluent neighbors.  And we don't have enough money really to start a worthwhile charity (not for profit) to skip paying taxes.  And even though our affluent neighbors really do pay more taxes than us...who cares, they can afford to!  So, we will carry this burden.  I know, I know, you don't care...just get the damn bill passed already!  



Okay, because of the MINORITY we will pass this bill.....soooooo, humor me then!  Since the MINORITY of illegal immigrants cause problems and live off our social programs, shouldn't we then go ahead and implement closed borders?   Let's do a repackaging reshipping program...return shipment prepaid even!  Again, the middle class bears the burden of supporting any influx in illegal immigration because whether YOU are privvy to it or not....they do collect social security, they do collect food stamps, they do use our hospitals and not pay the bill, they do our jobs, they ship their money back to Mexico (or the country of origin), so on and so forth.  I am not talking about the legal people who are in the process of becoming naturalized....no, no.  Just the ones we know are illegal from every country.  And since the feds love to listen in on our phone conversations anyway, Patriot Act, and the feds are willing to set up email addresses for "fishy" speech regarding programs...why not use these tools to help pinpoint the illegals?  Give the middle class a break somewhere people!  The wealthy are a minority...so we should be speaking up for them too! :0)



I support a healthcare overhaul.  I know our system is lacking.  I don't trust our government at all with money...with OUR money.  They overspend it, lose it, support corruption and become more corrupt, they "borrow" from us (Bush borrowed from the F fund...federal employees retirement fund) with a promise to pay it back...like Social Security?  Because Barack Obama has spent as fast as he can talk, taken liberties (claims he coauthored bills he in fact did not) (claims he warned about Georgia, but was still a community organizer at the time), got elected and broke a promise on the first day! (He decided it was too hasty of him to repeal NAFTA and GATT....gee thanks Mr. For America, Hope and Change, whatever that means, and all that other crap you had to keep a straight face through just to get elected.)   That was a big promise that I, as a citizen
who is concerened about the unemployment rate, was looking forward to him keeping. 



I am for environmental policies that really AFFECT the environment...not that cash for clunkers waste of time.  Again, the federal govt. took tax dollars, distributed it to people who needed/wanted newer more gas efficient cars. Tax payer/nonpayer, depends on income, now in debt for new car, higher insurance (in my state you have to have full coverage on cars in which you still owe money).  Who wins?  The enviroment?  According to Barack Obama's Green Czar, read Van Jones' book, that has piddling/no effect.  Jones writes that having greener homes, buildings (starting with the projects, urban areas) THEN you make an impact.  But wait, the government gave a bailout to the big three automakers, (Ford didn't take theirs at the same time as the other two because Ford got theirs BEFORE the other two) the government (Obama) now says, okay we own a piece of this.  The government THEN comes up with an ENVIRONMENT program that wait....wait....wait.....gives the big three another boost!  Woohoo!  Makes sense, because now the govt is coowner, and should be trying to get business up for its' investment right?   For those of you who'd post that Toyota was the bigger seller....by how much and who cares????   The big three got boosted sales.



Honestly, I don't understand how anyone in the United States can trust any elected official anymore.  Dub him Messiah or not....he will not be our savior....he can be bought!



Joy "the Historian" I like your idea of reading History books...now take a look at our laws historically.  Fair Credit Act, Improving America's Schools Act, what was that one that Bill Clinton passed....hmmm...about how anyone should be able to own a home, so even people receiving unemployment, SSI, AFDC, and any other govt. income could buy a house too?  What was the title of that one???  No, it wasn't titled Failure, it became one...it was based on temporary incomes/incomes that should have been temporary?  It'll come to me two days from now.  Anyway, the federal govt has been passing laws that hurt US the taxpayers, since they realized we weren't really paying attention anymore.  Was that around the 60s or 70s that our educational system was revamped to dumb us down?  Ever been educated just to pass a standardized test?  They are now!!!!

Esther - posted on 08/23/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

Thats right..... most of the country is fighting back against the socialist agenda of Obama, and that makes liberals very uneasy. And now b/c we are standing up for our rights as "we the ppl" we are being called mental, etc.......I guess its no longer our freedom to disagree with the gov't or stand up to them??



http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-au...

Sara - posted on 08/21/2009

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Yes...



The way their blowing up this healthcare debate, claiming they need to "take back America"...I just don't get it. I mean, I watched GW flush this country down the toilet for 8 years...he spent trillions on a WAR, Obama wants to spend it on Healthcare to help people, not kill them. They just all seem like such freakin' nut jobs to me, I just don't get it...

Charlie - posted on 09/01/2009

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LOL , come on over Sara !!
If that is " keeping it real " then i am glad i am here .

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Isobel - posted on 09/02/2009

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I think it's amazing that this minority of cult members honestly feel that they are the majority...clearly they are not or else Obama would never have been elected.

I also think its sad that this very vocal minority is SO loud that the sane people who have honest, logical questions cannot be heard.

For the record, speaking as a Canadian who "has way too much time on her hands" The American media is so pervasive that it is impossible not to know about American politics; in fact here most of us know more about your system than our own. Watching you system at work from the outside gives us a unique opportunity to see the forest instead of just the trees.

I didn't know about the republican moms...i am going on immediately though I am a little worried for my computer as I often throw things at the TV when FOX news is on ;)

Sara - posted on 09/02/2009

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And people wonder why we can't get anything done in the US...you see what we're up against, irrational f-ing people.

Johnny - posted on 09/01/2009

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I like reading the republican moms stuff. It's hilarious, sort of like watching Stephen Colbert and the O'Reilly Factor. Great satire... right? They must be joking at least some of the time. No one is that ignorant... I hope.

Sara - posted on 09/01/2009

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Loureen, they're not intolerant and prejudiced...they're keeping it REAL (rolling eyes). Can I move to Austrailia? Are you guys accepting new Aussies over there? :)

Charlie - posted on 09/01/2009

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I don't know much about your government but i did do some reading over at republicans moms community to get a feel of their beliefs and all i can say is WOW !! talk about being prejudice and intolerance .

Jenny - posted on 09/01/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

WOW, you must have alot of time on your hands?? I am assuming your from Canada??? It cracks me up .....that everyone outside of the U.S knows what's best for this country!!! I totally disagree with your long story, so call me a angry mob memeber since we're all psycho. The main point in all of this is not over our presidents race, the race card is sooooo old. To me it's not over an personal opinion. The point is "any ppl depented on their country will die fasting". More gov't control is not the answer. It's the gov't that got us where we are today, why would we give them more power. As for Healthcare reform, yes we need it, BUT NOT controlled by the GOV't, they bankrupted medicare and medicaid, why would we let them run all of our healthcare. The gov't isn't goin to tell me what doctor I can see, or when I can see them, or if it's even neccessary. My husband works hard so we can have insurance, and don't try to tell me that you believe Obama when he says you can keep your healthcare if you like it, b/c you are living with hope. Oh and whats hope??? Believing of things that are yet to come, of the unsure. Obviously you believe in no higher power since you 'dis' on faith so much. Well I have faith though one person, Jesus Christ. Not president Obama, and his socialist ideas. Oh kind of like Canada, your soles are with your ever loving gov't right? I have faith, no evidence, but that's what makes GOD, GOD all knowing creator of the universe, say what you will. As for Bill Mahr, I feel bad for him he has his head srewed on wrong as do many liberal democrats. This county has been the most prosperous country for hundreds of years w/o the gov't being in control of everything, we will rise up, and we will prosper back into everything we are, which is "one nation under GOD".



I take it in your rush to rant at me you missed that this is from the Huffington Post and not wrote by myself.

Shelley - posted on 08/27/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

FYI Shelly I watch O'Reilly all the time, and he was being sarcastic when he said that b/c he knew liberals would think thats actually why they are losing their ratings. Sorry but having some liberals check out fox is not going to make much of a difference. People just hate hearing the truth !!!!




FYI Brittney, it was at the end of the show when he reads peices of letters/ emails that have been sent to him. A liberal wrote this to him, and he credited it to whoever he was.. It stuck out to me b/c I am liberal, and I watch to laugh. Just FYI.

Jeannette - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Alison:

I'm "selfish" when it comes to the health care debate, but in a different way. I was hoping for universal health care that would be free for all and I thought Obama might actually be brave enough to do it, but it's not gonna happen this way. There are too many half measures. That doesn't mean that I'm not happy for all those people who will be helped, but I am dissapointed for myself.


Back on topic: I've cut and pasted part of my answer to the original question from the same thread on Political Debating Moms.

"There are elements of cult like behaviour attached to the Republican party and I find it strange that some people think of them as a Christian party. There are also people on the other side who appear to worship Obama as a mini God and are offended if people even dare to question him."

I think there are extreme views on both sides. The H word was unfairly directed at the present and former president. Some of the protesters have had good resons to protest and have kept things respectful. A minority of them are just crazy.


Yeah Alison, I was rather hoping for the free for all as well (taxes would cover it). When Obama came out, last week?, and announced that this program was not to be like Canada's in that  not everyone would be elligible, my heart grew heavy.  I had concerns about universal health care, and how it would affect our quality of care here...and the research.  I didn't get my research questions answered, but there are MANY members who partake in social health care.  They all love it, and wouldn't trade it.  THEY changed my mind about universal health care.  I am extremely disappointed that again, there is a program I will be paying in to, and it smells like more welfare. The fairest way to have handled this was to send out questionairres, either through email or snail mail, give people a voice, as if you are spending the people's money.  Yes, this process would have taken some time, but I think it would have been better than....this is what you got....and we really don't know what we've got.  If you didn't think to ask about every single thing this bill does/doesn't cover, then you didn't get all of the information.



My husband suggested that insurance be illegal.  Radical?  Probably, but isn't this going to be a raidcal change.  He discussed it in length with my father....to sum it up...if you don't have a middle man to pay the bill, then you have to charge what the patient can actually afford.  But then, what number is the magic number for affordability?  Anything will have problems at first, no program is going to take off and not have problems.



 



 

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I'm "selfish" when it comes to the health care debate, but in a different way. I was hoping for universal health care that would be free for all and I thought Obama might actually be brave enough to do it, but it's not gonna happen this way. There are too many half measures. That doesn't mean that I'm not happy for all those people who will be helped, but I am dissapointed for myself.





Back on topic: I've cut and pasted part of my answer to the original question from the same thread on Political Debating Moms.



"There are elements of cult like behaviour attached to the Republican party and I find it strange that some people think of them as a Christian party. There are also people on the other side who appear to worship Obama as a mini God and are offended if people even dare to question him."



I think there are extreme views on both sides. The H word was unfairly directed at the present and former president. Some of the protesters have had good resons to protest and have kept things respectful. A minority of them are just crazy.

Konda - posted on 08/25/2009

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Jeanette, sorry I don't feel like copying all of that post, but I applaud you, you hit most of it dead on!!

I will say I selfish where health care is concern...I have ALWAYS paid for my health care form the time I was 18. Even when I first took my medical retirement and wasn't making squat, I ate $1 TV dinners, and had no cable, Internet, nothing. Now I did not have kids and I am ALL FOR KIDS GETTING FREE CARE, but not adults.I am 100% AGAINST FREE CARE FOR ADULTS unless they are disabled or elderly. I am for lowering costs of health care. Yet, it comes down again to personal responsibility, sometimes you will have to do without something to take care of yourself and your family. I have a friend that spends he refund check to get her kids all the latest video games, not health care, because her 'kids deserve' to have all the stuff their friends have. You know what, no kid has died from not having a PS3 or WII, I didn't have the $100 jeans my friends had when I was in school(it was a lot back then)...and I didn't die. Food, shelter, WELL-BEING, those are the things that are needed. Yes and overhaul is needed, yet I will never blindly accept this plan Obama wants to put into place.

Sara - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

. I think History proves where socialism gets you, but thats my opinion. .



Public schools, social security, the military, the post office...all terrible ideas?

Evelyn - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Esther:



Quoting Sara:

What's a Meshier?






Yes, inquiring minds would like to know.






You two are so wrong for that...but HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That gave me a good laugh. BTW...great post Joy, as usual. ;-)

[deleted account]

Quoting Jenn:



Quoting Brittney:

Ester, think what you will, as you don't like my views, but what I believe in is what I believe to be true. I think History proves where socialism gets you, but thats my opinion. IT might surprise you but I don't agree w/ every conservative idea out there. You already have a preconceived idea about me anyway, so I'll just go about my ways. And if I scare you more than terrorist, all I can say is WOW!!!!

Jenn, I seen that,completely amazed actually, thanks for your kindness. I don't feel I am bitching at anyone, and I don't think I am ignorant, but I guess since some ppl can have an opinion that I am ignorant, makes me ignorant??? I sincerely apologized for my comments, I didn't clearly state what I meant. Everyone talks about me not being opened minded, when they can't be opened minded about what I believe.





 






Sometimes, I think we all need to take a step back and think about what we are saying, myself included. 






I would also like to thank you for clearing up the comment you made that has, in effect, been the subject of the other thread on DM, related to the comment on the Welcome page.  I appreciate knowing that you misspoke, rather than stand fully behind  the statement in it's prior format.






I'm trying to be open-minded about everything - that doesn't mean that I can PERSONALLY agree with it all- but I can try to understand another person's point of view.  I will also state my opinions on a subject, and would prefer not to be labeled as anything other than "open to debate" on the subject.






I'm sure we'll talk more in the future.






=)



 



 



Thanks for your understanding, Jenn !!!!





 

[deleted account]

Quoting Jenn:



Quoting Brittney:

Ester, think what you will, as you don't like my views, but what I believe in is what I believe to be true. I think History proves where socialism gets you, but thats my opinion. IT might surprise you but I don't agree w/ every conservative idea out there. You already have a preconceived idea about me anyway, so I'll just go about my ways. And if I scare you more than terrorist, all I can say is WOW!!!!

Jenn, I seen that,completely amazed actually, thanks for your kindness. I don't feel I am bitching at anyone, and I don't think I am ignorant, but I guess since some ppl can have an opinion that I am ignorant, makes me ignorant??? I sincerely apologized for my comments, I didn't clearly state what I meant. Everyone talks about me not being opened minded, when they can't be opened minded about what I believe.





 






Sometimes, I think we all need to take a step back and think about what we are saying, myself included. 






I would also like to thank you for clearing up the comment you made that has, in effect, been the subject of the other thread on DM, related to the comment on the Welcome page.  I appreciate knowing that you misspoke, rather than stand fully behind  the statement in it's prior format.






I'm trying to be open-minded about everything - that doesn't mean that I can PERSONALLY agree with it all- but I can try to understand another person's point of view.  I will also state my opinions on a subject, and would prefer not to be labeled as anything other than "open to debate" on the subject.






I'm sure we'll talk more in the future.






=)



 



 



Thanks for your understanding, Jenn !!!!





 

[deleted account]

Quoting Jenn:



Quoting Brittney:

Ester, think what you will, as you don't like my views, but what I believe in is what I believe to be true. I think History proves where socialism gets you, but thats my opinion. IT might surprise you but I don't agree w/ every conservative idea out there. You already have a preconceived idea about me anyway, so I'll just go about my ways. And if I scare you more than terrorist, all I can say is WOW!!!!

Jenn, I seen that,completely amazed actually, thanks for your kindness. I don't feel I am bitching at anyone, and I don't think I am ignorant, but I guess since some ppl can have an opinion that I am ignorant, makes me ignorant??? I sincerely apologized for my comments, I didn't clearly state what I meant. Everyone talks about me not being opened minded, when they can't be opened minded about what I believe.





 






Sometimes, I think we all need to take a step back and think about what we are saying, myself included. 






I would also like to thank you for clearing up the comment you made that has, in effect, been the subject of the other thread on DM, related to the comment on the Welcome page.  I appreciate knowing that you misspoke, rather than stand fully behind  the statement in it's prior format.






I'm trying to be open-minded about everything - that doesn't mean that I can PERSONALLY agree with it all- but I can try to understand another person's point of view.  I will also state my opinions on a subject, and would prefer not to be labeled as anything other than "open to debate" on the subject.






I'm sure we'll talk more in the future.






=)



 



 



 



 



Thanks for your understanding  Jenn !!!!





 

~Jennifer - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

Ester, think what you will, as you don't like my views, but what I believe in is what I believe to be true. I think History proves where socialism gets you, but thats my opinion. IT might surprise you but I don't agree w/ every conservative idea out there. You already have a preconceived idea about me anyway, so I'll just go about my ways. And if I scare you more than terrorist, all I can say is WOW!!!!

Jenn, I seen that,completely amazed actually, thanks for your kindness. I don't feel I am bitching at anyone, and I don't think I am ignorant, but I guess since some ppl can have an opinion that I am ignorant, makes me ignorant??? I sincerely apologized for my comments, I didn't clearly state what I meant. Everyone talks about me not being opened minded, when they can't be opened minded about what I believe.


 



Sometimes, I think we all need to take a step back and think about what we are saying, myself included. 



I would also like to thank you for clearing up the comment you made that has, in effect, been the subject of the other thread on DM, related to the comment on the Welcome page.  I appreciate knowing that you misspoke, rather than stand fully behind  the statement in it's prior format.



I'm trying to be open-minded about everything - that doesn't mean that I can PERSONALLY agree with it all- but I can try to understand another person's point of view.  I will also state my opinions on a subject, and would prefer not to be labeled as anything other than "open to debate" on the subject.



I'm sure we'll talk more in the future.



=)

Esther - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

And if I scare you more than terrorist, all I can say is WOW!!!!





You alone don't. The fact that there are many more like you does. Last I checked Sharia law hasn't been passed in the US. DOMA was. Guess who has the bigger impact on my life?

[deleted account]

Ester, think what you will, as you don't like my views, but what I believe in is what I believe to be true. I think History proves where socialism gets you, but thats my opinion. IT might surprise you but I don't agree w/ every conservative idea out there. You already have a preconceived idea about me anyway, so I'll just go about my ways. And if I scare you more than terrorist, all I can say is WOW!!!!



Jenn, I seen that,completely amazed actually, thanks for your kindness. I don't feel I am bitching at anyone, and I don't think I am ignorant, but I guess since some ppl can have an opinion that I am ignorant, makes me ignorant??? I sincerely apologized for my comments, I didn't clearly state what I meant. Everyone talks about me not being opened minded, when they can't be opened minded about what I believe.

~Jennifer - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

Jenn, I am happy to be a conservative, to stand up for what I feel is right, say what you will. Whatever, maybe you should turn your interst into whats best for this country instead of attacking conservatives just b/c we see things differently. Everyones hung up on our protests, we have you guys freaking out!!! Your talkin about us all the time, instead of what needs to be done. But....hey I guess we got your attention...lol !!!

Joy, that could be your interpretation or others on what our forefathers thought of religion in general, as I have my interpretations as to what the forefathers thought. I may not he a historian like yourself, but I know my history as well.

Jeanette, I agree w/ you the middle class never gets a break!!!!!!



Brittney,



 



  If you feel that a definition is an attack on your personal beliefs, again, take it up with the people that wrote the dictionary.  Until you stop feeling as if I am attacking you and stop defending yourself over a DEFINITION ( a printed, accepted, long used DEFINITION) no one is going to get anywhere.  I understand that you are defensive of your beliefs, you can defend them to Saturn and back and the defintion won't change. It is what it is - the meanings of a word.



As far as 'your protests', your party...I could care less.  I am ( read this out loud if it will help you)  "No Affiliation". that means, in short, that I believe what I believe and not along specific party lines.



I couldn't care if the republicans and the democrats all stood in Revolutionary War formation and shot at each other across a battlefield.  If that's what they fell they need to do to promote their ideas, fine.  I won't be standing with any of them.  I make my decisions based on MY perceptions, not what other people TELL me is correct.  I don't care if you're so conservative that the Pope wants to adopt you, nor do I care if someone else is the most liberal, most green, most independent, and so forth and so on.   You can all keep fighting over your principles- and the longer you all fight about it, the longer nothing gets done.  Have a ball with that.  I stand up for what I believe in no matter which "party" comes up with the idea.  You keep arguing what is "right".



I'll argue what is "fair and just".  (and you should be pretty pleased that I will, since there's an entire thread going on where I am the only one arguing for your (yes, you specifically) right to make ignorant statements.  Now, if you could do that RATIONALLY, without BITCHING at people, I'll gladly step down from that and let you handle it.  ......RATIONALLY and without getting angry , think you can do it?. I wonder if you would fight for MY right not to be censored, and given the benefit of the doubt in something I posted .....I really wonder.)

Sara - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Esther:



Quoting Brittney:

Jenn, I am happy to be a conservative, to stand up for what I feel is right, say what you will. Whatever, maybe you should turn your interst into whats best for this country instead of attacking conservatives just b/c we see things differently. Everyones hung up on our protests, we have you guys freaking out!!! Your talkin about us all the time, instead of what needs to be done. But....hey I guess we got your attention...lol !!!

Joy, that could be your interpretation or others on what our forefathers thought of religion in general, as I have my interpretations as to what the forefathers thought. I may not he a historian like yourself, but I know my history as well.

Jeanette, I agree w/ you the middle class never gets a break!!!!!!






Brittney - what's so frustrating about trying to have a "debate" with "conservatives" like yourself, is that you will counter any factual argument with "well, it's what I believe, sorry if you can't handle it". Just because you belief the sky is purple doesn't make it so. Just because you believe Rush Limbaugh isn't full of .... doesn't make it so. Just because you believe Obama is out for socialist world domination doesn't make it so. But people can show you all the evidence in the world, you're just going to come back with "well, it's what I believe. I'm entitled to stand up for my beliefs". You are right about one thing though, this type of "conservatism" freaks me out like nothing else, because this organized ignorance has a direct impact on my day to day life. It scares me more than terrorism hands down. And I work on Times Square in New York.





Esther, I believe the correct phrase would be "Just because you believe Rush Limbaugh isn't full of Donkey".



 



And I totally and completely agree with you, Esther.

Esther - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

Jenn, I am happy to be a conservative, to stand up for what I feel is right, say what you will. Whatever, maybe you should turn your interst into whats best for this country instead of attacking conservatives just b/c we see things differently. Everyones hung up on our protests, we have you guys freaking out!!! Your talkin about us all the time, instead of what needs to be done. But....hey I guess we got your attention...lol !!!

Joy, that could be your interpretation or others on what our forefathers thought of religion in general, as I have my interpretations as to what the forefathers thought. I may not he a historian like yourself, but I know my history as well.

Jeanette, I agree w/ you the middle class never gets a break!!!!!!



Brittney - what's so frustrating about trying to have a "debate" with "conservatives" like yourself, is that you will counter any factual argument with "well, it's what I believe, sorry if you can't handle it". Just because you believe the sky is purple doesn't make it so. Just because you believe Rush Limbaugh isn't full of .... doesn't make it so. Just because you believe Obama is out for socialist world domination doesn't make it so. But people can show you all the evidence in the world, you're just going to come back with "well, it's what I believe. I'm entitled to stand up for my beliefs". You are right about one thing though, this type of "conservatism" freaks me out like nothing else, because this organized ignorance has a direct impact on my day to day life. It scares me more than terrorism hands down. And I work on Times Square in New York.

JL - posted on 08/25/2009

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Ummm...No what I did was actuallly read the words and ideas written by our founding fathers...Neat concept I know. What professional historians and well informed people do is read primary sources for factual evidence that backs interpretation of historical theories rather than relying on secondary sources from people who have not studied or who do not understand the difference in source material in order to form a thought process that is not full of historical inaccurcies.



For example instead of reading someone else's interpretation of the Qua'ran I would actually read it myself word for word before I made an inaccurate misinformed statement that had no basis of truth.

Esther - posted on 08/25/2009

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Quoting Sara:

What's a Meshier?



Yes, inquiring minds would like to know.

[deleted account]

Jenn, I am happy to be a conservative, to stand up for what I feel is right, say what you will. Whatever, maybe you should turn your interst into whats best for this country instead of attacking conservatives just b/c we see things differently. Everyones hung up on our protests, we have you guys freaking out!!! Your talkin about us all the time, instead of what needs to be done. But....hey I guess we got your attention...lol !!!



Joy, that could be your interpretation or others on what our forefathers thought of religion in general, as I have my interpretations as to what the forefathers thought. I may not he a historian like yourself, but I know my history as well.



Jeanette, I agree w/ you the middle class never gets a break!!!!!!

Shannon Cassidy- - posted on 08/25/2009

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Yes The Republicans are turning into a Cult.

Obama is the Messiah why doesn't he just heal everyone whom is sick, Lame or Crippled then we wouldn't need this foolish Healthcare, or any Healthcare for that matter.

~Jennifer - posted on 08/24/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

yeah that's the defination when you look up cult, not when you look up just religion. Saying the republican party is a cult, is saying any group w/ the same ideas is a cult, come on now. I don't get paid to believe what I believe, I disagree with some extremely conservative view points, not many but SOME. I just stand up for what I believe in, call me whatever you want. I know where I stand :)



The OP's question was is it turning into a  'cult'.



I gave the ALL of the definitions of 'cult'' and used your post (tirade, I believe I called it) as an example.  (Those would be definitions 3,4, 5 & 7 on the first link(Encarta)......and alternatley worded but identical definitions on the other 3.  I said nothing about religion.   If you need to get angry at someone, call the publisher of Encarta, or Miriam Webster; try contacting the webmaster at dictionary.com ......I didn't write it. 



 

Konda - posted on 08/24/2009

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People are allowed to disagree with the president just not Obama, any other prez is fair game. They called Bush an idiot and Clinton much worse(those those names were correct), yet if you speak against Obama, then you are either crazy or racist. I am so sorry that I find the whole health care system being flushed further down the toliet...is it perfect, hell no, but if the Senate(Democrats) find it so appealing then why wont any of them be on it? I am very conservative, but I do not follow Rush nor as a Catholic do I "pray to Mary" as someone said in an earlier post. I didn't like what Obama stood for during the election though it was hard to tell exactly WHAT he stood for since he changed his CHANGE so many times. Like the damn "Cars for Clunkers" which I am totally against anyway, but on Monday they came out and said they were adding money to the program and continuing this GREAT program, then on Thursday it was announced that it was being terminated.



I am neither racist nor crazy(not where my country is concerned)....yet something has to be done. I am sick to death of everything being laid on Bush...was Obama not a senator during Bush's tenor? Does the prez make all the laws and everything without the senate's approval??? DUHHHHHH!

[deleted account]

yeah that's the defination when you look up cult, not when you look up just religion. Saying the republican party is a cult, is saying any group w/ the same ideas is a cult, come on now. I don't get paid to believe what I believe, I disagree with some extremely conservative view points, not many but SOME. I just stand up for what I believe in, call me whatever you want. I know where I stand :)

~Jennifer - posted on 08/24/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

Joy, I will always rest w/ one nation unde GOD for as long as I live. This country was founded on christianity, and the majority of our citizens want it to stay that way. I didn't say anyone was any less of a citizen just b/c they don't believe in GOD. Thank you for your husbands service, as my dad serves as well. And yes alot comes down to greed in this country BUT NOT when it comes to what I work for, what I work for is mine, thats not greed. My husband and I work to make a middle class living, nothing should be handed out. This country got to this point b/c people worked, and worked hard for a living to make this a prosperous country. I pay taxes I do my part as a citizen to fund, social security, medicaid, medicare, etc. That's why pay taxes to help programs that help others.
Now, I didn't say that other countries can't have an opinion about the U.S., but to call all conservatives a cult is a little extreme when you don't live here. If I sat here and said how ignorant and stupid Canada was or a certain group of ppl were and so on, I would be bashed left and right for being judgemental. It's great if other countries do care about us, but don't sit and talk trash about us when your on the outside lookin in, thats all I'm saying. The thing is that countries like Canada that have socialized health care rant and rave about what good care they get. But why are Canadians coming to America to have their surgeries done, b/c the gov't is in control, sayin that they have to wait for this amount of time, so the gov't decides what is urgent. This is very true b/c I work for a physican in the U.S., it happens all the time. SO if that healhcare is working out so good, why are they here to get their surgeries.

Jenn so glad your my personal dictionary.......I don't know any dictionary that would be biais enough to say "especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader"

religion- a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing teh conduct of human affairs

religious group- a set of individuals whose identity as such is distincitve interms of common religions creed, beliefs,doctrines practices, or rituals.

So I don't know where you got your definitions from the two I listed above b/c no where did I see anything close to what you put, you were misled.

Anyways, if you think we're a cult fine, if standing up for what you believe in is a fad, so be it. If the liberals stand up for what they believe in, it's fine. They were aloud to bash Bush left and right even though he was the president. But put Obama in office and
conservatives are call cult groups b/c we disagree, and b/c we are being racist, it's just becoming very sad.
FYI Shelly I watch O'Reilly all the time, and he was being sarcastic when he said that b/c he knew liberals would think thats actually why they are losing their ratings. Sorry but having some liberals check out fox is not going to make much of a difference. People just hate hearing the truth !!!!

I don't know if I addressed all the ppl that swarmed me, but I too have an opinion as do all of you. Why wouldn't you not expect someone to come on here in an uproar when someone has posted something extremely irrational??


http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_186160...



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...



http://www.yourdictionary.com/cult



http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cult



better? It's just a definition, or 4. It's nothing to get upset over.

[deleted account]

Joy, I will always rest w/ one nation unde GOD for as long as I live. This country was founded on christianity, and the majority of our citizens want it to stay that way. I didn't say anyone was any less of a citizen just b/c they don't believe in GOD. Thank you for your husbands service, as my dad serves as well. And yes alot comes down to greed in this country BUT NOT when it comes to what I work for, what I work for is mine, thats not greed. My husband and I work to make a middle class living, nothing should be handed out. This country got to this point b/c people worked, and worked hard for a living to make this a prosperous country. I pay taxes I do my part as a citizen to fund, social security, medicaid, medicare, etc. That's why pay taxes to help programs that help others.

Now, I didn't say that other countries can't have an opinion about the U.S., but to call all conservatives a cult is a little extreme when you don't live here. If I sat here and said how ignorant and stupid Canada was or a certain group of ppl were and so on, I would be bashed left and right for being judgemental. It's great if other countries do care about us, but don't sit and talk trash about us when your on the outside lookin in, thats all I'm saying. The thing is that countries like Canada that have socialized health care rant and rave about what good care they get. But why are Canadians coming to America to have their surgeries done, b/c the gov't is in control, sayin that they have to wait for this amount of time, so the gov't decides what is urgent. This is very true b/c I work for a physican in the U.S., it happens all the time. SO if that healhcare is working out so good, why are they here to get their surgeries.



Jenn so glad your my personal dictionary.......I don't know any dictionary that would be biais enough to say "especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader"



religion- a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing teh conduct of human affairs



religious group- a set of individuals whose identity as such is distincitve interms of common religions creed, beliefs,doctrines practices, or rituals.



So I don't know where you got your definitions from the two I listed above b/c no where did I see anything close to what you put, you were misled.



Anyways, if you think we're a cult fine, if standing up for what you believe in is a fad, so be it. If the liberals stand up for what they believe in, it's fine. They were aloud to bash Bush left and right even though he was the president. But put Obama in office and

conservatives are call cult groups b/c we disagree, and b/c we are being racist, it's just becoming very sad.

FYI Shelly I watch O'Reilly all the time, and he was being sarcastic when he said that b/c he knew liberals would think thats actually why they are losing their ratings. Sorry but having some liberals check out fox is not going to make much of a difference. People just hate hearing the truth !!!!



I don't know if I addressed all the ppl that swarmed me, but I too have an opinion as do all of you. Why wouldn't you not expect someone to come on here in an uproar when someone has posted something extremely irrational??

Johnny - posted on 08/24/2009

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Quoting Shelley:

And part of the reason Fox News has such high ratings is that many liberals watch to see what crazy shit they're saying now -- as O'Reilly kindly noted while I was watching a few days ago. I mean, come on, it's funny. Hannity's my fave. Nut job that is.


Definitely!  And we all need to be strong and stop doing it.  It's so much fun, sort of like watching 4 year olds have an argument.  But I think the increased ratings are giving them political power that they should not have.

Shelley - posted on 08/24/2009

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I live in TN, the most Republican state in America, and after Obama won the election, it is no longer possible for us to get our whole family together. We used to be able to discuss the issues w/o things getting heated. My brother is 32, ex military, and has just gone plain nuts over all this talk of socialism. If I even call to say hello, he says 'are you still happy you voted for Obama?' 'Your kids are going to be paying for all this!' Um, there's nothing to talk about -- at all. He's the definition of a tea bagger and has really isolated himself from the family. I even got into it at a BAR last weekend about healthcare with an acquaintance who wanted to have the convo w someone who has read the constitution. It was fun for me, after a few drinks, to see someone get so mad that I had a logical answer for his arguments. It ended w him screaming 'f*ck you!' at me, and I couldn't have laughed any harder. Twas hilarious.. Hope we're still friends..



I appreciate a healthy exchange of ideas, but I do find some of things listed in the above article to be .. cultish, not to mention extremely irrational.



And part of the reason Fox News has such high ratings is that many liberals watch to see what crazy shit they're saying now -- as O'Reilly kindly noted while I was watching a few days ago. I mean, come on, it's funny. Hannity's my fave. Nut job that is.

~Jennifer - posted on 08/24/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

WOW, you must have alot of time on your hands?? I am assuming your from Canada??? It cracks me up .....that everyone outside of the U.S knows what's best for this country!!! I totally disagree with your long story, so call me a angry mob memeber since we're all psycho. The main point in all of this is not over our presidents race, the race card is sooooo old. To me it's not over an personal opinion. The point is "any ppl depented on their country will die fasting". More gov't control is not the answer. It's the gov't that got us where we are today, why would we give them more power. As for Healthcare reform, yes we need it, BUT NOT controlled by the GOV't, they bankrupted medicare and medicaid, why would we let them run all of our healthcare. The gov't isn't goin to tell me what doctor I can see, or when I can see them, or if it's even neccessary. My husband works hard so we can have insurance, and don't try to tell me that you believe Obama when he says you can keep your healthcare if you like it, b/c you are living with hope. Oh and whats hope??? Believing of things that are yet to come, of the unsure. Obviously you believe in no higher power since you 'dis' on faith so much. Well I have faith though one person, Jesus Christ. Not president Obama, and his socialist ideas. Oh kind of like Canada, your soles are with your ever loving gov't right? I have faith, no evidence, but that's what makes GOD, GOD all knowing creator of the universe, say what you will. As for Bill Mahr, I feel bad for him he has his head srewed on wrong as do many liberal democrats. This county has been the most prosperous country for hundreds of years w/o the gov't being in control of everything, we will rise up, and we will prosper back into everything we are, which is "one nation under GOD".



....Let's just go with the simplest and most to-the-point answer:





cult





1. religion: a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader







2. religious group: a group of people who share religious or spiritual beliefs, especially beliefs regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false







3. idolization of somebody or something: an extreme or excessive admiration for a person, philosophy of life, or activity ( often used before a noun )







4. object of idolization: a person, philosophy, or activity regarded with extreme or excessive admiration







5. fad: something popular or fashionable among a devoted group of enthusiasts ( often used before a noun )








6. cultural anthropology system of supernatural beliefs: a body of organized practices and beliefs supposed to involve interaction with and control over supernatural powers







7. sociology elite group: a self-identified group of people who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective


















SO, to use your tirade as an examlpe for the OP:



Yes.  It is.

Shelley - posted on 08/24/2009

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Quoting Christa:

....should a 13 year old who gets pregnant....REALLY be allowed to get an abortion without evening notifying her parents. Think about that....what if that was your grandbaby in there.....would you REALLY never want to meet it or hold it!!! Somthing to think about.


What if that was your grandbaby in there?!



Well, then that wouldn't be your choice to make. 



Here' a little info on what the crazies are up to: http://apps.facebook.com/circleofmoms/tr...



 

JL - posted on 08/24/2009

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Just looked at how we are ranked internationally when it comes to healthcare, education, crime, gun violence, voter turnout and so on. The statistics are disheartening to say the least............

ME - posted on 08/24/2009

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In the meantime...more people die in the US every year from lack of health care, or inadequate health care than died in 9/11, maybe we should be fighting a war on health care???

Sara - posted on 08/24/2009

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This whole mess over Healthcare just makes me sick (pun intended). People are trivializing the extermination of 12 million people by trying to equate Obama trying to reform HEALTHCARE to Hitler. That absolutely disgusts me and makes me lose just a little more faith in America.

ME - posted on 08/24/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

Oh wow Esther, now there's some credibility. I know most liberals hate the fact that fox news has the most ratings, but it is a fact!!!!! The liberal media has nothing better to do, then try to twist the words of good news coverage, very sad.



Did you just call John Stewart "the liberal media"??? I think that he and COMEDY CENTRAL would find that to be very funny indeed!



 



But...he is a very funny guy...Thanks for the clip...I enjoyed it...

JL - posted on 08/24/2009

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Keeping yourself informed about what is going on with your neighbors should be what is everyone is doing...that is if they really care about what is or is not going on in not only the country you live in but this world. Canadians should have an interest in what is occurring in America just as we should have an interest in what is going on in Mexico and Canada because what is happening in the international community can and will affect us and what is happening with our neighbors will spill over into our nation. Geez...a little full of ourselves aren't we and American's continue to wonder why we are disliked by so many in the international community because we think the world should only revolve around us. The issue in America is GREED. Greed is what is destroying us so stop thinking in terms of the it's MINE mentally and maybe we can create a better world!





Read an American history book please and stop resting on the "One nation under God" sentiment as if this meant the same thing for each of our founding fathers and for each American. I am no less an American than anyone else because I don't follow some hypocritical Christian credence. My husband who is an aethist is no less of an American because he does not believe in God..I think his fighting for this nation..FOR this World as a soldier says enough. And YES I LIVE WITH HOPE..hope for a better world..hope for humanity to prevail...hope for peace...hope for kindness...hope for people to put others before money....hope that those who blindly listen to talk radio find away to crawl out of the pit of ignorance. What is life without HOPE for something better. Hope is what pushes you to strive for something better. A world without hope would be pretty dismal.

Amie - posted on 08/24/2009

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Quoting Brittney:

WOW, you must have alot of time on your hands?? I am assuming your from Canada??? It cracks me up .....that everyone outside of the U.S knows what's best for this country!!! I totally disagree with your long story, so call me a angry mob memeber since we're all psycho. The main point in all of this is not over our presidents race, the race card is sooooo old. To me it's not over an personal opinion. The point is "any ppl depented on their country will die fasting". More gov't control is not the answer. It's the gov't that got us where we are today, why would we give them more power. As for Healthcare reform, yes we need it, BUT NOT controlled by the GOV't, they bankrupted medicare and medicaid, why would we let them run all of our healthcare. The gov't isn't goin to tell me what doctor I can see, or when I can see them, or if it's even neccessary. My husband works hard so we can have insurance, and don't try to tell me that you believe Obama when he says you can keep your healthcare if you like it, b/c you are living with hope. Oh and whats hope??? Believing of things that are yet to come, of the unsure. Obviously you believe in no higher power since you 'dis' on faith so much. Well I have faith though one person, Jesus Christ. Not president Obama, and his socialist ideas. Oh kind of like Canada, your soles are with your ever loving gov't right? I have faith, no evidence, but that's what makes GOD, GOD all knowing creator of the universe, say what you will. As for Bill Mahr, I feel bad for him he has his head srewed on wrong as do many liberal democrats. This county has been the most prosperous country for hundreds of years w/o the gov't being in control of everything, we will rise up, and we will prosper back into everything we are, which is "one nation under GOD".


1) What does it matter if she's from Canada? Everyone has an opinion on the states. As Iris said.. it's an international forum.



2) What is wrong with our Canadian gov't? You obviously have some beef from your line... your souls are with your ever loving gov't.

Iris - posted on 08/24/2009

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Great article and well worth reading.



Brittney, you say: "WOW, you must have alot of time on your hands?? I am assuming your from Canada??? It cracks me up .....that everyone outside of the U.S knows what's best for this country!!"



First, all she did was read the article, copy/paste is not so time consuming.

Second, this is an international forum, everybody has a right to there opinion. I for one am glad she put the article here for me to read.

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