Judeo-Christian Bible contradictions?

Rosie - posted on 03/24/2011

unlike sara and johnny, i lost faith through a series of circumstances, actions of "christians", and the undeniable inconsistencies in the bible. after reading the links provided, i am astounded by how many i missed.
i never understood how we were all made out of incest twice, once with eve and her kids, and twice with noahs sons and their apparant ability to procreate with their mothers or aunts.
god loves everyone yet he kills and destroys on a daily basis.
people living ot be almost a thousand years old just isn't feasable to me.
IDK, if you really think about it, nothing the bible says is believable IMO. why should i believe a book that's been translated over and over again over the years by MAN with their own agenda? i'll stick with science and it's agenda. at least i can clearly see how they came up with their theories. :)

Happy - posted on 03/24/2011

I think that's why it's called faith.

Iridescent - posted on 03/24/2011

Good debate! I don't have much to add. I was taken from this religion to that throughout my childhood, but the last was Jehovah's Witnesses. The contradictions within that group/cult were enough to completely turn me off religion, although I do encourage my children to learn about various religions and to feel open to speak with the priest, as it is a comfort for them in our lives which are difficult and gives them someone other than just their parents to lean on in times of need.

If there is a God, I'm certain he does not care about us. Look at my life! No Merciful God would have left me in that situation.

Contradictions within the Jehovah's Witnesses -
When the last person born in or prior to 1914 dies, the world will end. People cannot live longer than 120 years according to them, yet it is not allowed/evil to calculate the end of the world (despite the fact that they have done so twice at least, and failed both times), even though it's simply "at most, 1914 + 120".

Problems with other religions - The Holy Trinity.
God is not Jesus, God is Jehovah, and it is stated as such multiple times throughout the Bible. Yet it also states that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one and the same. It's evil to take the Lord's name in vain, but people have interpreted that to be anything from "God Damn It" to "Jeeze" to "Christ" when in fact, the Lord's name is JEHOVAH. I don't hear that curse, ever, yet even organized religions don't get it right. God Jehovah is Jesus' father, yet also Jesus himself? Oh, what-ev-er...gimme a paradox, thank you very much.

Next up, to the times. Most women were married and pregnant by 14 years old, yet Mary was something like 16 and a virgin? Yea...sure. This reminds me of the "does my baby look Asian or Black" question.

Dying without being baptized means the soul will go to be forever in purgatory. Thanks mom, for having me stillborn and not ripping me out of your belly and baptizing me! No. No Merciful God would punish some soul for something they have absolutely no control over.

Back to the not celebrating birthdays or holidays, Jehovah's Witnesses used to! Absolutely. They simply decided that death is much more worthy of celebration since it means they are closer to being reborn on a perfect world where everything is fun and sunshine...and those people get to avoid the 1000 years of Hell on Earth. In addition, there are 144,000 "chosen ones" that will ascend to heaven and become angels, and those ones are known NOW by people on earth and live in New York on a farm (of those that are alive).

Abusing your children is good and welcomed among JW's. Yea, that was lovely. Being a child that complains of severe abuse is liable to get you abused more, by "elders" who know better.

I honestly think religion is simply there as a way to combine events, and join society, and while some history is kinda accurate, it's also a big book of lies.

Sara - posted on 03/23/2011

This is an interest of mine. As an atheist, I like to have fuel for discussions about it...

Jakki - posted on 03/23/2011

Wow Sara B - did you just write all that off the top of your head or what? Either you cut and pasted or you're a university lecturer on this subject!

Meghan - posted on 03/22/2011

We just went over this in sociology last semester...not sure why, but we did.
From what we learnt, Judeo-Christian believes originated from Pagan and Celtic practices waaay back in the 12 century. The bible was re-written multiple times to reflect new European beliefs, and continues to be re-written. I am not discrediting anything, I don't know what I believe in. But the fact that (from what I have learnt) practices over the past 1000's of years have been influenced by other religions-which now are dis-credited or put down-I don't know if I want to put all of my faith in that religion...Lord or no Lord.

Meghan - posted on 03/22/2011

We just went over this in sociology last semester...not sure why, but we did.
From what we learnt, Judeo-Christian believes originated from Pagan and Celtic practices waaay back in the 12 century. The bible was re-written multiple times to reflect new European beliefs, and continues to be re-written. I am not discrediting anything, I don't know what I believe in. But the fact that (from what I have learnt) practices over the past 1000's of years have been influenced by other religions-which now are dis-credited or put down-I don't know if I want to put all of my faith in that religion...Lord or no Lord.

Kelley - posted on 03/21/2011

I have actually been readng all the posts. Like i shared in the question, this is for my own research. My reference is mainly 'Yea, sayers' so I find it important to search out the 'Nay sayer' side.
The only revision I think I might have made was to narrow the subject matter.
I'm stilling reading and slowly but surely searching out referrence material.
Thank you,
and if something specific has always been a personal matter of contradiction , please put it out there.
Kelley

Sara - posted on 03/21/2011

My first thought is, how can something that was written in the bronze age be scientifically true? At that time they thought the earth was flat, that sea monsters were a real danger and that spitting in wounds healed them. I don't think you can say it's scientifically accurate when it was written thousands of years before modern science and scientific method.



That aside, I'm with Johnny. It's not the fact what's in the bible that doesn't make me believe in God, it's just my own feelings. I don't claim to know that there is a God or isn't a God, but for me I feel that there's no proof that there is a God. I do believe that things that some consider miracles or acts of God are just natural occurances in our world.



Everyone has already listed some good links of the ways that the bible is contradictory. But, to address your idea of the bible being historically accurate, let me say this: What inaccuracies exist depends on what you're willing to accept as being inaccurate or not. For instance, do you believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old, or 4.54 billion years old? Do you believe we come from Adam & Eve, or that we evolved over time? Do you think there was ever a worldwide flood as the Bible says, or do you believe the geologists, biologists, physicists, archaeologists, and paleontologists who all agree no such event ever happened?



If you accept the Bible's explanation for things, then you will discount any evidence to the contrary as being the inaccurate assertion. If you accept the scientific evidence, then the Bible's account of the creation of the world and the history of mankind is almost universally wrong.



Likewise, do you believe the Egyptians ever held the Hebrews captive? The historical and archaeological evidence suggests the Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt. In fact, it suggests quite the opposite, that it was the ancestors of the Hebrews who twice invaded Egypt to conquer it. The first time, they did so as the Hyksos, who were successful in conquering and occupying Lower Egypt for several centuries, before being driven out in a war waged by the Pharaoh Seqenenre Tao II and his son Kahmose. The second time, they returned as the Habiru, and attempted to invade the Jordan River Valley... at which point Ramesses II promptly handed them their asses and drove them from his empire.



If you accept the Bible's explanation, then there is no error in the narrative. The prevailing archaeological evidence sides with the Egyptians, though. The Hebrews were never their slaves. They were not forced to make their monuments, and they did not make a desperate nighttime Exodus. If you accept that viewpoint, then everything in the Bible concerning Moses is historically inaccurate as well (including God handing down the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai).



As far as Jesus is concerned, according to the Bible Jesus was born before Herod I died, but we know that had to be at some point prior to 4 BC. Fine. That would simply mean we had the date a bit wrong, but the Bible also says Mary was pregnant when Quirinius took his census of Judea. Quirinius took his census on the orders of Caesar after he had to be brought out of retirement and redeployed from Rome to subdue the region because it was falling into anarchy in the wake of Herod's death. The census would have taken place in 7 AD... which means Mary had to have given birth to Jesus, then sucked him back up and gone on being pregnant with him for 11 years.



Nazareth is another problem. Jesus was supposedly from there, but the Assyrians laid waste to the Nazareth valley in approximately 732 BC, and except for a few stragglers it seems to have remained abandoned until after 50 AD. The town does not appear in the Roman census at the time, nor in any of the Jewish records from the time. It does not seem to have existed until well after Jesus supposedly died, which would make saying Jesus was from Nazareth about like saying Jesus was from Hogwarts. Unless you find the route from Bethlehem 9 3/4, there's a problem.



If you go on, you'll find the problems extend into the little details as well. The Bible claims Pontius Pilate was a Procurator, but the governors in the area at the time Jesus supposedly lived were Prefects (and what little historical information there is on Pilate confirms he was not a Procurator). There's no evidence the Egyptians ever suffered a massive attrition of their childhood population. There's no evidence the city of Jordan was ever destroyed. There's no evidence Sodom & Gomorrah existed at all, etc, etc, etc.



To some minds, all of those things are anachronisms and inaccuracies which indicate the story itself is fictional. To others, they indicate we have no idea what we're doing because we obviously either haven't found or haven't interpreted the evidence correctly since it is not accurate to the Scripture.



It's up to you to decide which point of view is correct. I, for one, believe the scientific, historical and archeological data over the bible.

Desiree - posted on 03/21/2011

Of course the bible is contridictory it has been written by several different men over thousands of years. It has been interpreted by mankind. I am a believer but I don't need the bible to prove to me that someone or greater than me exisits, I see it every single day, when I hear my children laugh or the birds sing, in the beautuful flowers and trees around me. For me God and Life are the samething, don't need more proof than that. The bible is a written History of 2 peoples. The Jews on the one hand (old testament) and that of the Christian (new testament) on the other hand. The 2 religions no matter what anyone on this planet can say will always be interlinked. The bible I do not believe is there for you take from it literal meaning, it is there to teach you. It doesn't worry me that there is not scientific proof. I have my own brain I can decide for myself what I think is right or wrong. My daughter was 5 when she told me she felt sad for another little boy in her class. I asked her why. She said it was because he had never had a Birthday or Christmas. I told her that He was a Jehovah Witness and that was just how it was. She then asked If they celebrate Easter I said yes. And she then asked" How do you celebrate someones death if you can't celebrate their life?" I have yet to have an answer for my daughter, but it has made me see things through her eyes. Christianity in all it Glory is more Often than not a Contridiction in it own right, but then again it is controlled by men.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 03/19/2011

I really agree mostly with Johnny, but for me it was also the MANY contradictions, that led to no longer believing in the Bible.

And so I will say that I looked at the last link Johnny posted and concur with it…
Some of those things I knew and scratched my head about not making sense, and many others were knew to me

Have some good facts

Johnny - posted on 03/19/2011

http://www.freethoughtdebater.com/tenbib...

Johnny - posted on 03/19/2011

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7532112/Scient...

Johnny - posted on 03/19/2011

Since I am the person who stated that the bible contradicts itself, perhaps you will allow me to clarify. My lack of belief does not stem from contradictions in the bible. I just simply do not believe in a creator, active god figure(s) at all. The bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gitas, are all fascinating reads with some grounding in historically accurate occurrences. Reading them has never made me feel in any way that there is a god.

I think you may find that most non-believers, may they be atheists, agnostics, or just simply non-religious, do not lack belief because of what is in the bible. Most of us just simply do not see words in any book as telling us the real truth about anything, unless it is backed up by evidence. As well, when we see the same things that the faithful do that reaffirms their belief in the greatness of god (such as births, deaths, "miracles", etc.) we just simply see an event that can be easily explained through the natural world. No god is required. My husband has just been reading Stephen Hawking's "The Grand Design" where he explores the idea that the creation of the universe did not require a God. He does not state that there is no god, but that the existence of a God is not required to make things happen.

The veracity of the claims of the bible is really of little consequence for me. I was just simply stating that finding out the "truth" that the bible really apparently contains would be fascinating, given that it contradicts itself repeatedly. Please check out the following link for many more details:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/d...

Mind that this is based on a literalist interpretation of the bible, and that if one just sees it as a parable, then the contradictions are unimportant. And obviously, since the bible was written at many different places and at many different times, with the modern Bible omitting many traditional texts and books, inconsistencies & contradictions were bound to occur. However, for those believing that the bible is God breathed, it's really hard to sort out why he'd be so confused.

As I said, I do not reject Christianity or god because of problems with the bible. If I had faith, those would not matter. I simply hold no faith that god exists. I do not deny that god exists, I simply have seen no proof. What the faithful see as this proof simply does not cut it for me and never has.

JuLeah - posted on 03/19/2011

Define 'true' - you can find meaning in any story. And, it can be true for you. Did all the stories in the bible actually happen??? Of course not.

The stories were handing down oraly for generations, then put into writing (some) of the thousands to choose from, a select few made it into the final version of the bible.
When I attend Torah study - (the five books of Moses) it is a fun time we have playing the the langauge and the meaning .... so there will be ten or so of us gathered, and each holding a bible from a different year, diferent publisher ... so the same passage will use different words and have a slightly different meaning. The Rabbi will say, "Now the Hebrew says ..." and of course that is a translation from Old Hebrew which no one if 100% fluent in today ... many of the words in Hebrew don't have an English translation, so scholar made a 'best guess' .... and of course there are contradications .... the folks assmebling the bible and slecting which stories made it and which didn't had an audience they were speaking to and a message they wanted to send ... you have to read the bible in context ... who was it written for, who read it? I still have meaning today and will in each generation, but each generation will find new meaning .... I love to study the bible ... but think it all really happened??? No

Jenny - posted on 03/19/2011

Here's a start on the contradictions: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/j...