Kids and Guns

Jenn - posted on 04/10/2011

My fiancee also brings our four year old hunting with him, my son even has his own gun, but it is a little kids pellet gun and it is locked up it is only for when he hunts with daddy and daddy carries it for him, sets up the shot and then helps him pull the trigger,m he definitely doesn't get to shoot it alone. My fiance also makes sure he has all the proper gear on: protective gogles, earplugs, orange suit, etc...I think it is very good to tech them while their young, you don't want them being curious when they are older and screwing around with guns with their friends or something. My son is only four and he already knows the rules, he knows never to point a gun at anyone, he knows the proper ways to carry it, to treat every gun like it is loaded. I feel comfortable that if ever confronted with a friend who had a gun or something he would know how to handle the situation and not screw around with it. He is honestly very mature in many ways even though he is only four, because we allow him to experience many things that other parents would probably be afraid to let their kids try at a young age (nothing really dangerous or anything) and we always explain not only what the rules are for each situation but WHY rules are made and what the consequences are if you don't follow them. He is a very aware child.

Jennifer - posted on 11/17/2010

The law I was describing is acting in self-defence not over property. I wouldn't act if someone was stealing something either.

Anika - posted on 11/17/2010

@Jennifer - I'm just not willing to chance taking another person's life just over property. Protecting myself and my family is ok, but protecting property just isn't in my opinion. Nothing I own is worth more than someone's life, even if it is a shitty thieving life.

Charlie - posted on 11/17/2010

In Australia you have every right to defend your home but you cannot cause death , my best friend and my childs godfather found this out when his home was broken into by a junkie who attacked him and bit him with a bloody mouth , he restrained the criminal BUT he called the police to let them know he had him restrained , well the junkie ( who was high at the time ) died of cardiac arrest , he was 18 , My friend only got out of being convicted for manslaughter because he had told the police his intentions and the criminals family apologized to my friend and took his side in court , now imagine if a gun were present , i would hate to think if he had been shot dead UGH , i am so thankful we have strict restrictions .

Jennifer - posted on 11/17/2010

Anika I don't think death is a fair punishment for stealing and I didn't say that either though...there's defending your property and murdering someone.

Anika - posted on 11/17/2010

"Now if you were worried for your's and your family's life, ok, that's reasonable. But a car? No." - Me

I already agreed, protecting your family is one thing. Shooting a guy in the back for stealing your TV is another.

Toni - posted on 11/17/2010

"poses no risk to you and your family" ~ Me

that is why I said to potentially kill someone, by shooting them, who poses no risk to you or your family because I realise that if you have someone invade your home you have no idea what they want, however, it would become apparent very quickly if that person was just stealing from you or if they meant you harm. If they are running in the opposite direction from you I think you can assume they was just burglars not someone who wants to rape and murder you. It is a very situational thing, however I still feel that having a gun is potentially dangerous to everyone not just the intruder.

LaCi - posted on 11/17/2010

You have to know the laws applicable to you. I live in a pro-force state, my neighboring state is the same. If someone is invading your home (or business or car) you have the right to use deadly force. You will not be arrested for defending yourself.

I want my son to learn appropriate gun safety when he's older. We do have guns, locked up. the boyfriend is a carrier.

As for, "is death a reasonable punishment for stealing" No. It isn't. In the case of home invasion in particular, you have no idea what the motive is. They might be there to steal, or they might be there to rape, maim, or murder you.

I don't believe death is a reasonable punishment for anything. But a punishment takes place after the crime has been committed, it doesn't take the pain away from whatever atrocity has already been committed.. Self defense is not a punishment, it's prevention. I absolutely support the right to defend yourself, even with deadly force. A punishment doesn't take the crime away, defense does.

Stifler's - posted on 11/17/2010

Home invasion is scary, they don't always break in to steal things. My Aunty and Uncle got broken into and stabbed in the neck by the guy across the road from their house that they used to help and buy food when he was broke.

Toni - posted on 11/17/2010

Tracey I know that but it is still difficult to get a gun in the UK, you cannot just say one day 'oh I fancy doing some competitive shooting as sport' and wham your allowed a gun license. What I am trying to say is that it is much harder in places such as the UK than in the US because we do not have a right to own a gun unless we meet certain fairly strict criteria (again I know there are criteria in the US as well and not everyone can have a gun).

I have to agree though, for the people who have been sent to jail for shooting intruders there is always more to the story, shooting someone in the back as they are running away is murder you are not protecting yourself and your family from anything.

I do have to agree with Anika anyone who thinks it is ok to shoot someone who is stealing your car or poses no risk to you and your family are scary people, that is why we have insurance and why we pay our premiums, so the things can be replaced if they are nicked. I could never risk killing someone over something so trivial, now to protect my family that is a different matter and instinct takes over, although we have no guns in our home to be shooting at people with anyway so I guess it's a moot point for me.

Tracey - posted on 11/17/2010

UK - reasons to own a gun include wanting to take part in competitive sports so it's not as difficult as you think to get a gun legally.

If the people jailed for shooting intruders refers to Tony Martin he was jailed for shooting a burglar in the back as he was leaving his property and therefore no longer posed a threat. If Mr Martin had shot him while catching him in the act, or had been threatened by the burglar he may not have been sent to prison.

Having had a family member die from injuries received while fighting an intruder to protect his wife I say anyone who is injured or killed while breaking in to a house gets what they deserve.

Anika - posted on 11/16/2010

But are you an expert sharpshooter? What if you were aiming for their leg and shot them in the stomach instead? Or you got them in their leg right in the femoral artery and they bled to death? Or even worse you missed and got some poor bystander? I just don't think it's justified.

Stifler's - posted on 11/16/2010

I wouldn't shoot to kill them! Just injure them so the cops could catch them and they can't steal from other people and get away with it.

Anika - posted on 11/16/2010

I dunno Jennifer and Emma. Is death really a reasonable punishment for stealing? I don't think so. If you could kill someone over a car, ok then (you scare me), but I couldn't. Now if you were worried for your's and your family's life, ok, that's reasonable. But a car? No.

Jennifer - posted on 11/16/2010

Emma: It is stupid and unfair! Recently a man was saved from going to jail though and the government was on about introducing a new law to include being able to defend your house using suitable force...but thats up to opinion what's suitable and over the top!

Jodi - posted on 11/16/2010

I live in a small town in Wisconsin where hunting is number two only to football, hunting is almost a religion here! lol I grew up with guns, I do not know a single person who doesn't hunt, male or female. My parents' gun cabinet is stocked with 12 guns, all for hunting purposes. The cabinet is locked, the ammo is locked in a different drawer with a different key and there are trigger locks on each and every gun. I never owned a toy gun, not even a squirt gun, around here, guns are NOT toys. But, the rare child that DOES have a toy gun (usual a hunting type gun, not pistols) use it for pretend hunting! I have always had a deep respect for guns and before I could even carry a gun was given a rundown on hunter's safety by my grandpa. I shot my first BB gun when I was 8 (under supervision until I was 10) and my first shotgun when I was 12 after taking official hunters safety. There are very few gun accidents in my area and I'm not sure I've ever heard of a gun fight or anything like that. My husband and I keep our guns locked up and my parents house since they have the land we hunt on.
I've never lived in a large city so I don't really know, but I can't see the purpose behind owning a gun for safety from people. Most of the time, whatever weapon you have ends up being used against you in a home invasion. I have no problem with children being exposed or using guns as long as they are taught the dangers and proper safety precautions before hand and can understand and respect those limits.

Stifler's - posted on 11/16/2010

I think it's stupid, they're robbing my house I should have every right to defend myself and property. Unfortunately I don't so I don't own a gun.

Jennifer - posted on 11/16/2010

Emma it's the same here in the UK. Many people have been sent to jail or fined for shooting/fighting with someone who is intruding their property. So basically the robber has rights too.

Krista - posted on 11/16/2010

We live in a very rural area, and we do own a couple of guns. We're not really worried about intruders, but we ARE worried about bears. We had a black bear and a cub hanging around our property for awhile. We tried a few other methods to scare her off. Finally, what worked was firing a shot over her head. We really didn't want to shoot her, because we knew that the cub would have been screwed and we would have had to shoot him out of mercy rather than let him starve. And we definitely didn't want to do that. Fortunately, the gunshot scared her enough that we never saw her again.

Needless to say, the guns are locked in a gun locker and the ammo is locked in a separate safe. There really aren't intruders around here, because in the countryside, you honestly expect most people to have a gun or two in the home, so not too many people are going to be bold enough to break in when people are there and risk being shot. If they're going to break in, they'll do it when we're away.

My husband and I are both experienced shots and I will be taking a gun safety course. As soon as Sam is old enough, he'll be taking it as well. Even if we got rid of OUR guns, odds are that there will be guns at his friends' homes, so I want him to know what guns are, that they are a tool that needs to be respected (much like Mommy's good kitchen knives), and that if he EVER points a gun at another human being, I don't care if he's 5 or 50, I will break my no-spanking rule, and I will break it with a vengeance.

Nikki - posted on 11/16/2010

I have been thinking of this subject and although there will never be any need for a gun in our home I still think it's important to educate children about them. I remember last christmas we had a friend who is a cop arrive for lunch, my nephew (4) walked over to him, tried to take the gun of his hip and started making shooting noises! He had no fear, which is a little scary.

Stifler's - posted on 11/16/2010

In Australia the thief you shot would probably be in the right according to our marvellous justice system.

Erin - posted on 11/16/2010

Also, you are actually MORE likely to be shot in a home invasion if you have a gun yourself. And I won't even touch the idea of shooting a car thief :-s

Sherri - posted on 11/16/2010

More people are shot with there own guns then do any good against an intruder. Also if you are storing them locked up with the bullets in a different location if someone breaks in it will do ummmmm DO ZERO GOOD!!!!!

Toni - posted on 11/16/2010

Dana I realise that but as an American citizen you have a right to own and carry a gun if you choose to get the correct licence, whereas as a British citizen I can only have a gun if I have a legitimate reason. As I have said I have no issue with guns being used as tools for hunting (for food) and protection against animals, the thing that makes me question logics is the gun for protection against bad people, it is not necessary and makes situations more dangerous, but that is my opinion based on living in a country where gun crimes are rare, I hear of more stabbings than shootings (although obviously they do occur).

Dana - posted on 11/16/2010

/:)

Carol - posted on 11/16/2010

I think its good that your son is being taught about them. I love how people are like ' guns are dangerious' yes, like a gun can shoot all by its self. People behind the gun are whats dangerious. I've been all over the country. I grew up in California and people had guns there, I lived in Texas and everyone i knew had a gun in there house, but thats Texas. In Colorado i was sitting in a McDonalds and a guy walks by with a pistol in a holster, my family in Missouri have guns, and my inlaws in West Virginia have guns for hunting. It is good to teach gun safety, a gun is the best was to defend yourself if someone breaks into your house or trys to steal your car, at least you will have somethign to defend yourself with, especially if your a woman. Men are stronger then us and if some guy is in my house or trying to steal my car and i have a gun, you better beleive i will use it on him or her, if a woman decides to. At one point or another in our life we will are run into a gun. Maybe a toy, maybe a real one maybe us holding it in defense are it being held to us. Guns arent toys but a toy gun you can teach your kids that they real ones are dangerious and they hurt people and should only be used in defense.

Erin - posted on 11/16/2010

Ugh I hate guns. There will never be a gun, either real or toy, in my house. I have never seen one (apart from on a cop), and I have certainly never touched one. I like it that way. There is no reason for me to teach my child gun safety because she will not be exposed to guns in any way. There is no risk that she will be at a friend's house and stumble across one, because people just don't have them here.



I am in the city though. As is the case in most places, once you go into the country they have legitimate need. Around here (about 1.5hrs away is rural) it is mostly for pest control. Rabbits, pigs and kangaroos destroy fences and kill livestock. So the farmers shoot them, and I'm okay with that. It is their livelihood, after all. There's really not a huge hunting for meat culture here though. It's mostly feral, introduced species and nobody would ever want to eat them!

Johnny - posted on 11/15/2010

That's cool. Last time I was in Washington state, I actually saw people carrying just walking in the mall. I was quite shocked. I mean, it was Everett and I can kind of understand ;-) but really?

Sherri - posted on 11/15/2010

I don't know Carol it is extremely rare from where I am from. Actually I don't know anyone that has a gun.

Johnny - posted on 11/15/2010

Sherri, I know that a good number of Americans aren't fans of guns either. My phrasing was a bit off. I was trying to convey the point that America as a nation is a bit peculiar among developed Western countries in terms of its acceptance, love, and low level of legislation against guns. I think it's pretty clear from the rest of this thread, that most Canadians, Brits, and Aussies find it a bit different.

As for Canadian gun lovers that were mentioned, it may be the case in some areas, I'm not sure. But my family & my husband family all live in very rural areas and are not gun owners. In fact, about 10 years ago, my cousins contacted my Dad to make sure he didn't want our great-grandpa's hunting rifles before they returned them in a gun amnesty to the RCMP. They didn't want any more fire arms in their home. I am sure there are Canadians who love their guns lots and have a gun rack in the back of their pick-up, but it really is strikingly uncommon.

Dana - posted on 11/15/2010

Toni, it's not easy to get a carry and conceal license in the US, nor are there that many people walking around with one.

Stifler's - posted on 11/15/2010

I'm glad people aren't allowed to walk down the street with guns here too.

Nikki - posted on 11/15/2010

I am glad I live in Australia, I couldn't imagine having to worry about having guns in my home. I don't understand the need for American's to arm themselves in suburbia, I get the hunting and protection from those crazy animals you have over there, if I had bears on my door step I would possibly be inclined to arm myself as well. But for urban areas I think it's irresponsible, my children will not need to learn about guns unless the enter law enforcement because they are just not part of our lives here, which I am so grateful for.

Kathy - posted on 11/15/2010

Our cops are armed, but IMO they don't get sufficient training. There is a case going on in Melbourne where the cops shot and killed a 15 year old boy who was coming at them with knives. Scarey situation - the kid had all sorts of psychological issues, bad track record etc, They pumped 5 bullets into him. My feeling is that if you're going to arm your cops they should be trained to be absolute spot-on marksmen, so they could have aimed for his leg or something to disable him but not kill him.

Anika - posted on 11/15/2010

Yeah, I'm not to sure on the facts but we don't have a gun culture in New Zealand either. The rural communities do for legitimate reasons like farming and hunting but I don't think we have many in urban areas. There are some, don't get me wrong, but your average person doesn't have one and would never have one for the purposes of 'protection'. Even our cops aren't armed (though they now have tasers).

And I do believe, like Toni said, that guns beget more guns. Sure, there are other weapons, but you have to be closer to use them and they're easier to defend against.

Kathy - posted on 11/15/2010

In Australia, you need a licence to own a gun. There just isn't a gun culture here and I'm glad.

Rebecca - posted on 11/15/2010

I think I'm a bit of an anamoly. I've been a vege since I was 12 and a vegan since I was in my 20's (I'm in my 30's now). However, I grew up in rural Nebraska, my father did hunt for birds and is a Vietnam Vet. So, I actually do believe in hunting, for meat to eat, if you use the whole animal and do not waste it. I know there are areas in the US and abroad where this might be the cheapest and easiest way to feed a family with little means. I actually have more of a problem with people who frown on this but eat the packaged piece of animals in the supermarket with no knowledge about where it came from.

My Dad always had rifles for hunting and he made certain that we knew the danger/responsibility of a gun. He taught us how to use them properly but generally kept them disassembled in the house (when it wasn't hunting season).
He also kept his service gun from the military, not assembled, in his closet. We were all told about this gun but no of us had the slightest idea how to assemble it. We also had the fear of death from my father, respected his private things and didn't dare cross that line.

It is my opinion, that if you have them for whatever reason in the house, you have to teach children to respect and yes, use them properly.

I do not live in the States anymore and know that a lot of folks in different countries don't get this. I feel like most of these folks probably live in urban areas and don't have a lot of experience with hunting/guns. However, here in Canada, when I go 5 hours north to my sister in law's, they have a hunting culture very much like the one I grew up in. Only, they hunt moose. So, please don't say it's only the US that has this culture and you couldn't possibly understand. Just head to your rural outskirts in any given country, you will find gun owners and hunters who believe the same things many Americans do.

Toni - posted on 11/15/2010

Private gun ownership, in that it is a right in the US to have a gun if you have the correct licence, whereas in other countries such as the UK there are only a few specific reasons you can own a gun, such as farmers. It is not our right to own a gun, that is really what I am refering to, I am aware that there are gun laws in the US, but for example most people cannot carry a weapon let alone a concealed weapon in the UK, whereas in the US licence permitting many people can.

Dana - posted on 11/15/2010

Toni, what specific laws are you talking about that are strict in other countries and not in the United States?

Toni - posted on 11/15/2010

Tracey that is true that criminals do not generally legitimately own guns, however, gun laws do aid gun crime reduction. Look at the gun crime rates of countries where gun laws are strict, the rates are much lower than those where the laws are more lapse such as the States. This enforces that restricing private gun use reduces GUN crime, nobody has said that increasing gun laws will reduce ALL crime that would be ludicrous, gun laws only reduce GUN crime!

Laura - posted on 11/15/2010

Carol I understand and respect your opinion. I knew this would be a debate with very different points of view that's why I opened the thread. There is no need to get nasty about it. We are just explaining our reasoning. One of my best friends hates the thought of hunting but she respects our lifestyle.

As for accidentally shooting some one in our home it would never happen because the guns are never ever loaded in the home and ammo is locked up separetly than the guns. I don't remember ever hearing about someone getting injured in the home in South Dakota because most of our children learn to respect them at an early age and would never think of them as a toy. That is my point, if you hide the fact that guns even exists who's to say that Tommy's daddy down the street doesn't have one. Education is the best deterrent. There is nothing like a kid seeing a milk jug full of ice explode on impact to show them how dangerous a gun can be.

Tracey - posted on 11/15/2010

Gun laws have nothing to do with gun crime. Criminals do not have gun licenses, do not keep their guns in a locked cabinet which should be securely attached to a wall in their homes, and do not belong to a gun club who would assess their suitability for 6 months before allowing them to join, which is necessary (in UK) to own a gun. They do not buy them from licensed gun dealers who would need to see their licence and complete paperwork, they buy them on the black market for a fraction of the retail price, same for bullets.

If you eliminated every gun in the world tomorrow there would not be less crime, as the criminals would use knives, baseball bats, dogs etc as weapons.

Even if you ban your kids from having toy guns they will point their fingers and go bang.

I have no problem with guns for hunting for food or for protection, I would not use a gun as my aim is too bad and I would either miss completely or cause an animal pain. The most effective way I could use a gun would be to hit someone/thing over the head with it.

Sherri - posted on 11/15/2010

Carol I think you will find most Americans are very anti guns not many are advocates of guns unless they are hunters.

Toni - posted on 11/15/2010

Nikkole, guns breed guns. You are a prime example of this, a few people have been held up at gun point so you think you'll be safer with a gun, you're wrong if you have a gun to your head and you then pull out a gun YOU are the most likely person to get hurt or god forbid, your child/ren who you may have with you.

Just by you owning a gun you increase the risk of MORE guns getting onto the black market and so increase the risk of MORE people being held up at gun point. The only way to protect yourself and your family against crimes like this is too REDUCE the amount of guns on the streets both legal and illegal. Unfortunately the more legal guns people have the more the criminals feel they need to use guns.

The UK and other countries who have strict gun laws do still have gun crime, the store I worked in years ago was held up twice by gun point while I worked there BUT our gun crime rates are significantly lower.

Sarah - posted on 11/15/2010

Hate guns, abhor guns, would never have a gun anywhere near my house or my children.

SO glad I live in Britain where guns laws are so strict.

I can't get express how anti-guns I am!!

I don't agree with hunting either and yes, I'm a vegetarian.

:)

Johnny - posted on 11/14/2010

Well shit, I guess Arizona is just too fucking tough for the rest of us. Enjoy your guns! Just keep them there. I sure as hell don't want the "responsibility" of a accidental shooting in my home.

Sharon - posted on 11/14/2010

Carol - your relatives are entitled to do as they please. Rabies gets really bad here seasonally. going outside and getting close enough to throw an illegal firecracker at a rabid animal means you've got a very good chance of being bitten.

And yeah - it seems you didn't bother to read everything else posted by me - we've gone to great lengths - peacefully - to keep the wildlife away from our domestics without severely curtailing their travel in our rural area.

I haven't had to shoot an animal on the property yet and the closest I've gotten was a pitbull that continued to menace us while we had the gate open. Hubby bent a forged corner post over the dogs' head and it staggered away. But if that hadn't worked, if he hadn't actually had that post in his hand - it would have attacked. Ever pry a square jawed dog off someone before? The news is full of those. The dog had to be shot.

Our neighbors have higher fences and alpacas or llamas, I always forget, the mountain lion that went after their livestock died with its jaws around the neck of a baby llama and a bullet in its head. There wasn't any scaring it off. It killed the guard dog, which brought the owners out and then it killed the baby llama and was dragging it away when the owner finally figured out which paddock had the mountain lion.

I don't use electricity - my bill is over $150 each month as it is. I have a small house and energy efficient appliances and our stupid electric co-op has the highest rates in the state. My mother with a house twice as large as mine and 2 TVs on 24hrs a day and a radio plus all the same appliances I have but newer, has a lower bill, oh and AC - she has a massive AC unit. go figure, so I'm not going to use electricity.

I do have solar powered "predator eyes" which has gone a LONG way to keeping predators away from the buildings. We know - we spread DE on freshly raked earth every night for a couple of weeks to see what tracks are there in the morning - we check the mud in the daytime duck & goose pens for comparison. Something DOES dare to come to the inner yard but stops yards short of the night time pens.

SO yes we look for alternatives and we use them but if they fail, like the night a bear ate my husbands' dog - we have the gun. We've been here for 15 years roughly - we had the issue with the bear and dog 3 years after we got here and then two years ago the family of bobcats showed up and two weeks ago the mountainlion attacked at my neighbors place.

You don't like guns - fine. don't own one, you obviously are not up to the responsibility or are aware that it is the tool of last resort.

Johnny - posted on 11/14/2010

@ Sharon & Laura. Like I stated, there are wild and dangerous animals where they live. They raise chickens, goats, ducks, and rabbits on their properties (one has horses & cattle) and they use other approaches that have been practiced in their culture for generations. They are warding off bears, coyotes, cougars, raccoons, skunks, elk, deer, gophers.... Modern devices like noise makers and electrification has helped. Fencing of course. And sometimes good fun with firecrackers. But never ever fire arms. They are pacifists and would never consider owning one. I'm pretty sure none have them have wandered out to "shoo" them though, they've all still got their fingers *eye roll* Americans have this belief in firearms as a savior that much of the rest of the world just does not share. We're all still surviving surprisingly. Without rabies.

Sherri - posted on 11/14/2010

I grew up with a gun in the house my whole life as a kid because my dad was Chief of Police. I was taught early how to shoot it, what it would do. We knew where it was located but it was instilled in us at such a young age that it was never something to touch. We were terrified of it.

Hannah - posted on 11/14/2010

My stepdad was an RCMP so growing up there was always his gun in the house BUT it was always out of my reach...In fact I don't even know where it was kept, nor did I have any wish to know where it was kept. The only times I would see it is when he would come home from work with it....Also gun safety was impressed upon me....that it was only to be handled by those who knew how to handle it and that guns were not toys and were dangerous. As a kid that was enough to scare me into not touching them....