Kids these days!!!

Jodi - posted on 05/20/2012 ( 104 moms have responded )

25,983

36

3891

"Kids seem to be getting worse and worse as time goes on, maybe we could learn from parenting styles of older generations".

(Sorry Corrine, I AM borrowing something you said to debate, I thought it would make an interesting debate).

Do you agree or disagree, and why or why not? Are they really worse, or has their social environment just changed and we struggle to find ways to parent in a new environment? Do they only seem worse because we now have 24/7 news and new social networking tools that make it more public than it was when we were kids?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

[deleted account]

I guess it depends entirely on your standards. While going through my father's stuff the last few days, I found a lot of old newspapers from the very early 80s and late 70s and right on the main page was a murder in broad daylight.

Every generation thinks the younger one is going to pot.

I say no. I say yes we have problems but we no longer view instituational racism as good. We no longer post thenames of people we think may be communists in the local paper (actual article I found in one of the old newspapers.) Non-Christians are no longer jailed or murdered in most countries anymore. We no longer engage in bear baiting or cat burnings. We no longer treat the mentally ill as demon possessed who are incapable of feeling things like pain. We no longer view marital rape as just a disagreement.

I could go on and on. For any bad thing you can present about the 2000s ,I'll give you double the good that we have now compared to even 20 years ago.

Aleks - posted on 06/28/2012

546

0

46

I know I am late comer to this thread, however, could this be ONE OF the reason we see "youth" or "kids" being what they are:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-... :

"The Psychology of Civility
The foundational virtue of citizenship, civility is behavior that recognizes the humanity of others, allowing us to live peacefully together in neighborhoods and communities. The psychological elements of civility include awareness, self-control, empathy, and respect. If we believe that all human beings “are created equal” and have worth, then civility is an obligation to act in ways that honor that belief. It requires us to treat others with decency, regardless of our differences. It demands restraint and an ability to put the interests of the common good above self-interests.

See All Stories In
The Teen Commandments
How to foster health and happiness in your growing teen.
Find a Therapist
Search for a mental health professional near you.
Find Local:
Acupuncturists
Chiropractors
Massage Therapists
Dentists
and more!
Civility’s Decline
It’s impossible to know if civility has really declined because we can’t measure it scientifically. But by all subjective measures, most Americans believe it has severely decreased over the past two decades. Stories like the ridiculed bus monitor may seem unusually distasteful, but this kind of behavior occurs daily in U.S. classrooms and homes, and on the web.

There are several hypotheses for this decline. First, as society has become more informal, some ethics scholars suggest there are no longer agreed upon rules for respectful behavior. Norms have become unclear and fuzzy. The web has produced an etiquette-free zone where people can post anonymous and uncivil criticisms with ease. With anonymity, there is no responsibility.

Today, name-calling and vulgarity fill the halls of Congress, negative political ads attack character over substance, and reality show television encourages self-regard over the common good. Shows like “The Apprentice” and “Survivor” highlight back-stabbing behavior as admirable and winning qualities. With the advent of cable news, we can choose the network that suits our political beliefs, only hearing one side of the debate. In short, children are exposed to rudeness, vulgarity, and violence that would be unthinkable in previous generations.

Do we really need to ask ourselves where children learn civility? Children model adult behavior on television and in real life. And they replicate language they learn online. It is not uncommon to hear “F_ _ _ You” spoken by children just learning to talk. That’s because children are systemically connected to everything around them. The world is their learning environment. We are their teachers.

Admittedly, there are many roadblocks to reversing the downward trend of civility in today's society. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t. In fact, as parents, teachers, politicians, television producers, and others who impact children’s lives, we have a responsibly to do so. Why? Studies show that incivility leads to violence, unhealthy communities, and societies paralyzed by conflict and political division."

Hmmmm.... I kind of agree with the above part of the piece of article.
I also do agree with what Jodi in her OP stated... That essentially its just the nature of things... It happens to every generation.

However, whether some generations are worse than others.... I do not know. I have ponered this myself many a time, but yet have not been able to come to any conclusions as of yet.

[deleted account]

*MOD WARNING*

Ok ladies,

Let's get back on topic, if you wish to debate spanking please start a new thread. This thread will be locked if the spanking debate continues here.

Thanks

Toni M

[deleted account]

think there is a general trend -- not just among parents, but in North American society generally (and elsewhere in the English-speaking developed world) -- of believing our kids are less capable, less safe, less competent, and more in need of constant supervision than we or our parents or grandparents were at the same age
---

There may be some truth to this. Whenever I have a parent which an 18+ child on their insurance policyand I inform them that I can't discuss claims, etc due to HIPAA unless the kid is on the line or they sign a release, I often hear that that child can't possibly take care of this, they're too busy, not with it enough, can't take care of their own stuff let alone this, etc. I've seen it extend into their 40s with mom's calling in the insurance premium payments for their son (most of the time it's sons) because if they leave it to their boy, it wont get paid.

They then complain about having to take care of him still. I have on occasion when the rapport was right suggested that the aforementioned child is not a child anymore and I get a verbal shrug.

But this isn't new. My grandmother of sainted memory was an elementary school teacher for 40 years. She retired in the early 70s. She told many a story of the 'perfect' child who couldn't be disciplined or be given a deserved poor grade because Mommy and Daddy thought they were angels.

Johnny - posted on 05/22/2012

8,686

26

318

Rebecca, did you really just post only to be a jerk? How about contributing to the thread?

If you see this, leave this form field blank.
Powered by RESPECT not THUMPS

104 Comments

View replies by

Jodi - posted on 06/27/2012

25,983

36

3891

Michelle, I watched another kid siphon petrol out of boats on the lake and pour the petrol on a bonfire and set himself alight when I was a teen. *If* there had been a lot of dry grass that year, it could have been an even greater disaster. And that was over 25 years ago. So believe me, there have ALWAYS been kids doing stupid shit that they don't think about.

Here is an interesting article discussing the biological roots of this kind of behaviour.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/...

Michelle - posted on 06/27/2012

253

5

4

I think that some of the things that younger people do these days is completly idiotic, for example I was walking to work with my daughter and we walk through a nature strip, crossing three small wooden bridges to get over the small creek, and the other day we walked past 2 teens (a male and a female) and the female had decided to try and light a fire on one of these wooden bridges. I could never and would never have done that myself as I would realise that it could go terrible wrong (like setting the whole nature strip up if the wood was dryer than it seemed which would lead to at least 1 home becoming under threat of the fire). Although in saying this just because I would never have done such a thing I could see others in my age group doing this idiotic act. I don't think that really answers the question but from what I do see there is very little respect with the younger generation .

Jodi - posted on 06/26/2012

25,983

36

3891

"or maybe history is just repeating itself?"

Just that every generation complains of "the youth these days", so yeah, in that sense, history repeats itself :)

Kristi - posted on 06/26/2012

1,355

3

78

I would have to wonder how Socrates knew many of the children from this century...or maybe history is just repeating itself?

Tracie - posted on 06/26/2012

317

9

1

“Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers.” ~Socrates

Janice - posted on 06/26/2012

1,890

18

63

I keep seeing people from my parents generation (those in their 50's) posting facebook 'e-cards' and the like about how kids are so disrespectful due to a lack of spanking. I want to yell "You Raised Us!" Lol Granted I'm approaching 30 so I suppose I'm not really a kid. ;)

Jodi - posted on 06/26/2012

25,983

36

3891

Personally, I believe spanking is ineffective, period. However, psychological tests are divided on the issue, and results appear to be dependent upon the cultural context and socio-economic situation. Personally, I am against it, I don't hit my kids. I don't agree with people thinking it is ok to hit kids, but scream assault when an adult hits an adult. I am of the view that a bigger person hitting a smaller person to achieve their goals is called a bully.



However, I recognise it isn't necessarily abuse (although that doesn't mean it isn't either).



But, despite my views, it isn't spanking, or lack thereof, that has anything to do with lack of discipline, so really, the spanking debate is irrelevant in this particular discussion. After all, a *good spanking because that's what kids these days need* is kind of ignorant.

Kristi - posted on 06/26/2012

1,355

3

78

Give it a rest MeMe...I'm truly, very sorry you were abused, that is an awful thing to go through. Although, I was only spanked as a child, I was later physically, sexually and emotionally abused by 2 different men in my life. It was extremely traumatic and still sticks with me today. I hope you have been able to get some help so you have been able to heal and move on.

My parents didn't scare me, make feel insecure or demean me by spanking ie: swatting me open handedly on my clothed tush, up to but never more than 3 swats, that stung for a few minutes. Was I afraid of getting spanked, no more than I was afraid of getting grounded when I got older. Nobody likes getting in trouble. But as you said you are set in your ways, that's fine. I don't need to read "research" about spanking, I've been through it, my parents went through it, their parents and so on, not to mention my friends were also spanked, now I spank, I don't know a lot of people but most of the ones I do know, spank. So far, so good. I don't need some biased chart to tell me how to discipline my child. I know what works and what doesn't. My daughter is bright, full of life, self confident and she knows I love her and I will protect her with my life. I can hear the words coming out of your mouth right now....so don't bother, she's more than fine. As are the majority of the people I still have contact with from back in my day and from the people I know now. Once again, I'm not trying to "sell you my junk," I don't condemn others for having different ideas, methods of doing things, beliefs, skin color, religion, etc. Frankly, I'm not sure what I'm trying to do here because I certainly do not have to justify myself to you or any other hypocrite on here.

As for your idea that we intend for spanking to teach our children how to manage conflict resolution effectively, it's absurd. If you actually knew anything about what real spanking was about you'd understand the what's, when's, why's and everything. But you choose to focus on your own abuse, which is absolutely understandable. You read all the hyped up "studies" about criminals who SAY they were spanked, some undoubtly were, more often they were probably abused and/or neglected. There are 1,001 reasons why criminals commit crimes, being spanked, under my definition (which is pretty consistent with most pro spankers) is hardly a reason. And if children were misbehaving because they were spanked, well that would mean parents started spanking for no reason at all and that is abuse. You can try to cut Janice down on a technicality, but you know as well as anybody else (who is honest) that you wanted it to sound like all children will be forever messed up if they are spanked. According to you it is detrimental, it is demeaning, it is wrong, if we spank we don't want our kids to have self confidence or the "ability to tactfully get through a difficult decision." (I'm not really sure what you mean by that, decisions are usually personal so I don't know why tact would come into play when you are trying to figure out whether or not to, idk, try alcohol at a party when you're still a minor. But whatever you need to do to fluff your side up and just FYI, spanking would no longer be effective here either, after the age of 11ish spanking is ineffective and borders on inappropriate, IMO.)

You speak in so many half truths, that's how come I always end up agreeing with you on this but, finding you inaccurate on that. In this case, You are right, we are not happy when we spank. That would be sick and I would wager chartering the waters of abuse, as well. We don't run around high fiving and chest bumping while cheering We're #1...but, again, I think I can speak for most of us when I say we don't spank them out of anger either. That's not to say we aren't frustrated. By the time it is time for a spanking, we have become annoyed or frustrated with the repeated inappropriate behavior but it is not how you would have it sound, like a steamed up, red faced villian whomping on a kid because we are now the one having the tantrum.

I'd like to see the post that suggests spanking is a miracle tool. And let me add, we are just as sick if not moreso, of being attacked and DEMEANED and demoralized for having a different discipline regimen, as you are of proclaiming that we think we have the miracle tool. So they are holding a reservation at Misery Island on the corner of Whine and Moan for "Sick & Tired", party of 2 (million and counting). Don't worry, it's segragated, so you'll never have to actually breathe the same air as us spankers, they even got them fountains and lavatories marked, too. They used pictures insteada words, ya know for all the ignorant ones to understand better. LOL Sometimes I crack myself up at 3am!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 06/25/2012

3,377

8

66

Sorry Janice. I completely and wholeheartedly disagree. This topic is not one I will ever back down on. I am glad it worked out for you. I am unsure how anyone would ever want to chance it. All kids are different and you simply do NOT know how it will affect them.



It IS detrimental and I am sticking to it. There is absolutely nothing good that comes out of spanking but fear!



Are you good at working through difficult (conflict) situations Janice? Were you taught how to do this by being spanked? Sorry but spanking does NOT teach a kid about feelings other than negative ones. It does not provide them with the required tool kit of how to manage difficult (conflict) situations. I am so sick and tired of people trying to portray like it is some miracle tool. Bullshit. Ask a few other moms here, that have spanked their kids in the past, how they noticed a huge change in their kids and not to the good (as soon as they seen this, they never did it again). It does hurt them, physically and emotionally. Perhaps, Janice, you need to do some more research on this topic.



Also, no one EVER can tell me they spank their kids when they are happy. It is an aggressive reaction. It is an "in the moment" reaction. You do it when you are frustrated. Yeah, that is a great way to teach your kids how to relieve their frustration.



ETA:

This is off topic though. I just replied to someone using spanking as a go to tool, for kids that don't behave. Maybe those kids don't behave because they ARE spanked. Anyone ever think of that.



There has been studies done in Juvi centres. Too find that 95%+ kids there had been spanked as children. If it is so good and not detrimental, then why are these kids in Juvi?



Janice---Again I agree that spanking a child in response to bad behavior is not ideal but to insist that all children who are spanked are damaged is false.

Show me where I said this. Since I didn't. I said it is detrimental. I said it can be damaging. I did NOT say all kids that are spanked ARE damaged. I said many times "it CAN ". Come on now, don't put words in my mouth.

Janice - posted on 06/25/2012

1,890

18

63

Meme while agree that spanking is not the best option, it is crazy to continually insist that it is always severely detrimental to a child when it is not.

Yes, you were hit and it affected you greatly. I was hit and it didnt affect me much. It may have "shattered" your character, but it did not shatter mine.

Again I agree that spanking a child in response to bad behavior is not ideal but to insist that all children who are spanked are damaged is false.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 06/25/2012

3,377

8

66

I have a problem with spanking, I have done a lot of research. It is detrimental to the child, it is demeaning. It can shatter their character. It can kill their self esteem and confidence. It is a scape goat. It is the easy way out, I don't care if you "talk" to them about it. If you talk to them about it, then why can't you stop there? Why the need to hit, still? Have you ever put yourself in their shoes? They are children, they do NOT process info the same as an adult. Would you like your employer to HIT you because you did something wrong? How come parents think they can hit their kids but yet would shit themselves if anyone else hit them? Why would you not implement discipline that everyone that cares for the child can use? Like teachers. Why would you do something to your children that you would NOT allow have happen to yourself?



If you want to learn more, go research it. If you don't want to raise children with the utmost confidence and ability to tactfully get through difficult decisions, then don't. Just don't try selling your junk, I am not buying it. I was hit as a child, sorry but it is the wrong thing to do! This is all I am going to say about it.

Kristi - posted on 06/25/2012

1,355

3

78

MeMe--Can you point in any of my posts, anywhere, that I have ever stated someone, anyone was a bad parent? I'll save you some time, the answer is no. I have never stated that parents who don't spank have rotten kids. I have agreed, as have you, that " too many (parents) are scared to discipline for fear of CPS." I, however, am not one of those parents even though I am a spanker. I am, in no way, more afraid of or concerned that my opinion isn't popular on DM than I am of CPS. I, again, agree with you...spanking does not equal discipline. It is not effective alone. But I have stated my opinion, my logic and reasons for it several times. I have done so without attacking or insulting other people (unless attacked first, then I defend myself). I see no reason to lay out how and why I spank, my definition of a spank, etc. It is futile as people like you are completely closed minded and can't even show enough decency to respect each other's differences. Tell me, does that closed minded attitude apply to any other differences people might have, like idk, race, people with mental illness, being gay, religious preference (if any), or do you hold that special judgemental position just for spankers?

AA--

It is indeed, always nice to find another mom who is on the same wave length. Reminds you that you're not alone and you're not crazy! lol It makes me sad to agree with you about our school systems and our society. My daughter went to a Christian school when we lived in Omaha, which sounds like cow town so why would she need to, but there are like 500,000 people there and gangs are prevelant, the race card gets played every day, it is always somebody else's fault and besides what were you doing looking in my kid's locker/desk/backpack. And heaven forbid a teacher tries to break up a fight, because if a kid comes away with so much as a bloody nose and the teacher stepped in, LAWSUIT. Because certain parents have "cried wolf" so many times about a teacher abusing a child, now when fights do break out, faculty stands by helpless because they are not allowed to put their hands on a child anymore and the students are left to beat each other sensless until the police or security arrives. Does that mean I want to give teacher's the right to spank my children? NO. But, it is pathetic when the people in "authority" are being lead around by their noses by closed minded extremists.

I am so fortunate that we moved to a community on a little island in WA State. WA State education requirements are much higher than NE. We've only been here a year but I've spent quite a bit of time volunteering at the school, many of our neighbors have teenagers that have grown up here and they have been very polite and know how to maintain a conversation with an adult(which sadly, I've found to be rare today. No eye contact, slouching, poor attitude), some going off to college, some involved in sports, very competitive academically and in the sporting arena. Is it perfect here, of course not. Did/Does everybody here spank, of course not. But so far, despite it's unpopularity in DM, I've found more people out here that have/do spank than not. The crime rate here is next to nil. And there are not a lot of parents asking "Would you let your 15yo daughter and her 18yo boyfriend have sex in your home since you know they are doing it anyways?" We are just so blessed. I guess a got a little side tracked there...just thanking my lucky stars when I think about the reality that faces most of America. I also share your concern for what is going to become of us, as a nation. But I suppose that is a topic best left for another debate or thread. Take good care of you and yours.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 06/24/2012

3,377

8

66

Kristi---



And there are parents that do not spank but discipline and have great kids. Me being one of them. I guarentee you, that most Moms you meet here on DM, are the same. There are very few, that believe in spanking. You simply do not need to spank, in order to discipline. Spanking does not equal discipline. Spanking is mean, discipline is required. End of story.

Anonymous - posted on 06/24/2012

51

0

0

Kristi, it's nice to read posts from people like you, Jodi, and Erin who are just like me in their beliefs and parenting. There is hope out there for our kids and their futures. I am a teacher in a suburban/urban school district in PA. There is a complete lack of discipline from many of the parents and from many of our administrators who feel that hugs are better than following the code of conduct. The school is too afraid to follow through with suspensions and expulsions because they are afraid of law suits and because of the whole race issue. When I call home to inform a parent about his/her son or daughter being disruptive or not doing classwork, etc. more time than not I get the response, "I just don't know what to do. He/she has been like this since elementary school." Yet this same kid has the latest technology - ipads, cell phone, ipod, etc. Students curse in class, leave their trash on the desks, (I am constantly bringing students back to their desks after the bell rings to pick up after themselves), and they text nonstop. If I try to take a phone away from a student, the student refuses and when I write a referral, they get a "conference" which is a code word for nothing was done. Many of these kids feel that the music they listen to exudes talent and they know little to nothing about culture or true talent. Also, these same kids watch shows like Jersey Shore, American Idol, teen mothers or whatever it's called. If I suggest for them to watch a show on the science channel or the history channel they reply with something like, "I'm not a nerd. That's stupid and boring."
I'm afraid - for our future and for our kids' future. Where are we heading? Our society is heading toward a future of laziness, immoral ideals, and followers. Our country is not going to be a world leader for much longer but instead we will be trailing behind other countries who are passing us in so many ways.

Kristi - posted on 06/09/2012

1,355

3

78

Meme

Your post with the last paragraph that starts with kids are not out of control today because of less spanking. Kids are out of control for many reasons.....I listed almost every one of those reasons in my original post. I agree a hundred percent with your last paragraph.

You don't have to spank or approve it for anybody else. But there are parents in a category you conveniently left out. Parents who discipline and spank and have great kids. It may have been considered generational or whatever, but it was common when I was growing up 70's-80's, for kids to get spanked. My brother, sister & our group of friends were/are well behaved, polite, people who went to college and have the core values essential for being a the kind of person your family would be proud of. My daughter is on the same track. Her teachers & friends' parents tell me frequently how nice it is to have her over because she actually talks to them and has such good manners. I have never and neither did my parents spank because I was out of control or felt the need to take out my anger on her. There are several things I do for discipline but they all include age appropriate communication. We (my parents, my friends parents, myself, my exhusband ) didn't (13 is too old for a spanking, it is ineffective-in my opinion) run around whacking our kids because they colored outside the lines. Spanks were usually few and far between and with my daughter they were a quick, open handed swat on her bum. It was meant to sting a little and grab her attention, so to speak.

I'm not trying to change your mind but I am not, (neither were my parents) an abusive, lazy parent who doesn't discipline and has horrible children. I am also not one of a kind. I am not ashamed of where I came from and I'm not ashamed of how I'm raising my daughter. And again, that last paragraph of yours I mentioned, says it all, there are a lot of issues facing families today.

Jodi - posted on 06/09/2012

25,983

36

3891

" the ones that are, really make a name for kids, as a collective entity."

But the ones that are always HAVE made the name for kids collectively. It is never a majority of kids who were/are out of control. Maybe they are out of control for different reasons than they were 20 years ago, but I really think it is unfair to tar all kids with the brush that applies to a minority, and it IS only a minority, and it has ALWAYS only been a minority.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 06/09/2012

3,377

8

66

I do think parents of every generation thought the children were out of control. Simply because as you become a parent you look at children differently, than when you were one yourself. However, I do think it has become a bigger deal in these years than it has been in the past.

I agree things have changed, since this is the course of evolution through knowledge. I just think too many parents give up now, before really trying. Too many are too busy. Too many are scared to discipline, in fear of CPS. There are many contributing factors. I do not believe ALL kids are out of control, not even close. Though, the ones that are, really make a name for kids, as a collective entity.

Jodi - posted on 06/09/2012

25,983

36

3891

Actually, as I've said, I don't believe they are any more out of control than they were when my generation were teens (20-25 years ago). Times have changed. "Out of control" just means different things, as it has every generation. You don't think many parents thought their children of the late 60s early 70s were out of control? It is just different now. I wouldn't say worse.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 06/09/2012

3,377

8

66

Jodi---I highly doubt that it is lack of spanking that is leading to these issues, but rather, lack of discipline (which is an entirely different matter, and I really get sick of people confusing the two issues and thinking they are one and the same).



BINGO!! Jodi has this absolutely correct!



I am sorry but anyone, anyone at all, that thinks spanking is a favourable form of punishment to teach and guide their children, are sadly mistaken. There is absolutely NO need to be negatively physical with ANYONE. If you are frustrated or angry because your child is not behaving appropriately, well for fuck sakes, teach them how to be appropriate. You are not going to do this with spanking. Spanking is a scape goat. It is often said - by those that spank - that it is their final method, when all else has failed. Well, if you are at the end of your rope put yourself in TIME OUT! Go think about it and come up with a tactful action that will NOT hurt your child on the outside and inside.



Their are parent out there that do not discipline and DO spank. Guess what? Their kids are ROTTEN! Then their are parents that do not spank OR discipline. Guess what? Their kids are ROTTEN! Then their are parents that discipline and are consistent. Guess what? Their kids are GOOD!



Get with the program. Times have changed. We have learnt more since the spanking days. It is just not the go to form of teaching and guiding our children anymore.



Kids are NOT out of control because of less spanking. They are out of control for many reasons, like poor discipline, both parents working, parents afraid to discipiline, parents wanting to be their kids friends rather than their parents. The list goes on and on...it has nothing to do with them not being HIT. FFS. **walks away grumbling and shaking head**

Jodi - posted on 06/08/2012

25,983

36

3891

You don't need to clarify to me at all. I understood perfectly. I just don't agree with you. If you don't feel spanking = discipline, then why bring it into the conversation as a part of why you think children are undisciplined? That makes no sense. Spanking has nothing to do with it.



The first part of my post was for Erin, where she said she studied the history of spanking and crime rates and her evidence from ONE study.

Kristi - posted on 06/08/2012

1,355

3

78

Allow me to clarify my position, (again Jodi)...I don't think spanking = discipline. I was not criticising my parents or passing on a legacy. It was merely an exaggeration I was trying to use to express how out of control things seem to have become and that I'm afraid to imagine what things will be like for my daughter when it's her time to be a parent. My parents did spank us. I was not abused and I learned my lesson. I spanked my daughter and step-son when they were younger, too. In my opinion and in my experience, a occassional, quick pop in the tush does the trick. Notice the phrase "quick pop" not "continuous striking" and I understand that some people believe neither option is acceptable and that's great! I just don't think CPS should be called anytime a parent swats their child's tush. That being said, I will refer you to my ORIGINIAL comment which goes into more detail about the bigger issues I believe are causing a breakdown. You will see my belief in spankings has little to do with anything. In fact, Janice's comment points out some of the same things as mine, if you want to use that as a reference point for what to expect.

Janice - posted on 06/07/2012

1,890

18

63

I definitely agree with Jodi.

There is a lack of discipline in many homes. Some because the parents want to be their kids friend, some because they just don't care and some because the parents aren't actually with their child enough to make an impact.



When my parents, both born in the late 50s, were growing up it was unusual for a mom to work full time and single parents were also less abundant. By the time time I was born in the early 80's, moms working and single parents were much more common. And these things have only increased since then. Its really hard to instill values in a child you have in someone else care constantly so you can work or to make sure your child is staying out of trouble when your working 2-3 hours past the time they get out of school. I think these issues have impacted discipline and rotten children much more than spanking.

Jodi - posted on 06/07/2012

25,983

36

3891

Actually, many psychologists believe that the widespread use of corporal punishment by North American parents is cause for concern. You may be able to show one study that shows that" in the days when physical punishment was predominante there was astonishingly far less crime in general and less crime among children, teens and young adults", but what you describe is merely a correlation. I highly doubt that it is lack of spanking that is leading to these issues, but rather, lack of discipline (which is an entirely different matter, and I really get sick of people confusing the two issues and thinking they are one and the same).

I actually also find it quite disturbing to hear someone say "I think I'm the final spanking generation of my family" like spanking is a legacy to be passed on (and often is, if you read the psychological studies on it - you only think it is okay because that is the way you were raised and if you decided it wasn't okay, it is like criticising your parents for the way they raised you).

Kristi - posted on 06/06/2012

1,355

3

78

Erin,

You make excellent points! You spelled out what I was trying to say when I said, I thought parents seemed afraid to discipline their children. When it comes to DHS, I have a complete lack of faith in them doing the right thing for any child. But that is an entirely different conversation. I'd be interested in reading that study. I think I'm the final spanking generation of my family. By the time my daughter is a parent things will be so upside down, that they'll be the ones getting spanked. I don't think spanking is necessary or effective for older children, nor do I think a spanking is abuse. I know there are plenty of people who hit children and are being abusive and that is unacceptable by anyone's standards. Again, another conversation. In any event, thank you for sharing that awesome comment.

Erin - posted on 06/06/2012

195

0

6

I think kids are coddled too much now and lack respect for peers, parents and authority. I think DHS has stuck it's nose where it doesn't belong and made lots of kids think they don't have to listen to their own parents. I think society has branded good parents who use good tough love and physical disciplone to such a degree that many parents are too afraid or embarassed to punish their kids for fear of negative reactions from coddlers or even arrest.

I studied a history of spanking, the study showed that in the days when physical punishment was predominante there was astonishingly far less crime in general and less crime among children, teens and young adults. I found that interesting. Also nowadays we treat kids like they are helpless and can't learn to do anything, then again on the other hand sometimes we introduce obnoxious math and science requisites to kids who haven't even learned to tell time on an anolouge clock. The kids are too addicted to electronics to go outside and play or use imagination which I find very sad. This is part of the reason so many kids are just plain fat. I said it fat. Sorry but it's true, I can use the word overweight but it still means fat ok. It's not good for them they grow up with diabetis and all sorts of medical problems. The kid's minds can get lazy too. Lazy kids generally have trouble with social expectations, unless the social expectations are running amuck with no direction.

Kristi - posted on 06/03/2012

1,355

3

78

Wow! Well I am going to make a bold move and jump right up on the fence! It's more comfortable and I always make my best judgements from up here! lol

I do think things are getting out of hand regarding our children as a whole, in America. I'm not saying all parents are bad and so are their kids, etc nothing extreme like that. Sylvia H. made the point that we are not letting our kids do things that we ourselves did at the same age or younger. I agree with that but the reason I believe we prevent them from doing some of those things is because it is no longer safe for them. You can't just let your child take off for a bike ride alone anymore. There are too many freaks and criminals and irresonsible people who can prey upon them. Of course this varies depending on where you live, big city, small town, rich neighborhood, the ghetto it makes a difference on the level of freedom you can afford your child(ren). "Back in my day," the ice cream was really just the ice cream man, today he could be a felon using this a ruse to case your neighborhood or to lure in young kids or he could still just be the ice cream man. I know I'm having hard time taking that chance sometimes....I don't believe in putting children into plastic bubbles to keep them safe from the world. I think being educated and staying vigilant is important. Don't scare your kids but teach them to be aware of their surroundings, pay attention to details and follow their gut. Talk to them regularly about what to do if "this" happens. Obviuosly you can't prepare for all of the situations that could arrise but being proactive is a good start.

I do think that parents have a harder time parenting today for any number of reasons. Once again this is not directed at anyone person or group of people. I think one thing that has put a strain on parents is that both parents have or choose to work outside of the home. And that is not to say homes where both parents or single parent works aren't successful, I know plenty that are! I just think it is harder to "fit everything in" in the few awake hours that everybody has together by the time everyone gets home. I remember when I was growing up most of my friends and I all had stay at home moms. So when we got home at 3:30 she could help us with our homework right away, that always had to be done before we could go do anything else. If we needed a ride somewhere we didn't have to scramble or be stranded and miss out, mom was there. She was at my games when I got older. Dinner was always ready when my dad got home so it wasn't like 7 or 8 by the time we ate. Again, it just seems like that was simpler.

I don't know what it is but it almost seems like parents are afraid to discipline their children anymore. Kids seem to have more free reign. Maybe parents want to be more like friends hoping their kids will confide more in them that way? IDK. The media has all but destroyed the innocence that once belonged to our children. We grew up on shows like The Cosby Show and Family Ties and Happy Days. Not a whole lotta sex going on there. Now, Teen Mom, Friends (I know that's over but I don't let my daughter watch the crap that's on now so idk any names of shows in that time bracket) but that show had constant sexual inuendo. Commercials are full of near naked women or more sexual inuendo of some sort. Video games are worse, sex and violence all day, every day. Kids are sexting. Either I was deaf, blind and dumb or this stuff wasn't around when I was growing up. Older teens were having sex but not 13 yo. From what I've been reading on CoM in my other circle parents are allowing their kids to have under age drinking parties, to use pot and some to let their teens to have sex in their homes because it's inevitable. So I think that is what Ann was referring to when she was talking about going old school when parents could be parents (something close to that). She was also right about schools not having any authority over kids anymore. I agree, teachers should not be allowed to hit students but students rarely receive proper consequences for mouthing off or being disruptive in class. I've seen in many public schools, if a white teacher tries reprimand a black student the race card gets thrown and here come the parents my son is being picked on because he's black, the school is so afraid of being sued, the kid goes right back to class and is allowed to continue on with his behavior. FB is a another beast...we all know the pitfalls there.

I've gone on long enough. My answer is yes, it harder to raise kids today. Is it doable? Absolutely! We may have to put in some extra (wo)man hours to stay on top of things but if we set the rules and expectations, lay out the consequences and stick to our guns, I think we have a fighting chance of raising some pretty darn great kids.

[deleted account]

So cyber bullying is unacceptable to you but fighting in the playground is ok? Why? Is it because you grew up with fighting in the playground, but not cyber bullying, sort of a better the devil you know kind of thing because let's be honest both are forms of bullying!

Also I believe parents should be parents too, could you expand on what you mean by that though because I have a feeling we may have different beliefs on what that entails. I absolutely disagree with hitting your child for anything, there is never a need but I absolutely feel children need consistent discipline and guidelines.

I also feel that if the teachers are supported by parents not allowing their children to be disrespectful and are allowed to do their jobs their discipline methods are perfectly adequate the problem comes when parents do not allow the teachers to discipline in their way (again there is no need for them to hit) because their child is perfect or can do no wrong.

I agree with Jodi and meme, my children absolutely know that if they misbehave whilst in someone else's care, be that my mom or at school there will be consequences both by whoever is caring for them and by me, and I guarantee if my kids swear at the teacher because they can there would be major consequences my children know what respectful behaviour is!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/31/2012

3,377

8

66

Yeah, I agree with Jodi, here. My daughter (it will be my son, too) would never ever swear and backchat at ANYONE, let alone her teachers. She knows I would find out and well, that's all I need to say about that.



Now, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about, in regards to kids feeling more entitled and being unappreciative, disrespectful and spoiled rotten. Too many parents simply think their own kids shit don't stink!

Jodi - posted on 05/31/2012

25,983

36

3891

" My own child will swear and backchat the teacher but he wouldnt dare do it to me, and when asked why is that his answer "because he wouldnt be allowed to get away with it at home"."

Sorry, but if your child feels it is acceptable to swear and backchat a teacher, then that is YOUR problem in relation to the morals and values he was raised with. Don't blame the teacher because YOUR child has no respect. That's a total scapegoat. What are YOU doing about that?

Ann - posted on 05/31/2012

26

0

0

I agree. But will probably have my head bitten off. I believe in the old schooling, where parents could be parents and teachers could take a child to task and not baby them. Kids were allowed to fight in the playground and were not suspended every second day for having a beef up in the yard.

Kids are brought up too easy these days with everything done for them. Parents tend to give them everything to shut them up and keep them out of their faces, instead of encouraging them to go outside and play and use their imaginations with drawing and making things. And yes the social networking tools are part of the problem.

The cyberbullying is absolutely feral to the point that I will not allow my children when they are older to have an account. Kids are made to feel inferior if they dont have the latest Ipod or mobile phone as young as 8 years??? I make my children work for their pocket money and they earn a small amount only not $20 a week! They are being taught the value of having to save to get what they want.

I think these days kids know they have the upper hand in schooling and that is why their is no respect in schools. They have nothing to fear from teachers anymore because teachers have no rights. My own child will swear and backchat the teacher but he wouldnt dare do it to me, and when asked why is that his answer "because he wouldnt be allowed to get away with it at home".

Stifler's - posted on 05/27/2012

15,141

154

597

I agree with Sylvia there is definitely people who feel their children aren't capable of looking after themselves. People think it's AMAZING that my 2 year old is allowed to get his own bowl of cereal and bring me the milk to pour. or if our kids do stuff for themselves some think it's lazy parenting rather than letting them learn and choose for themselves basic things like what to eat or wear. That's probably nothing new either.

[deleted account]

It's pretty sad you can't see past the end of your own nose and look at a bigger picture, like I say there's more to the world than your little corner of canada...

Oh and if you read my post I said that in my experience most children are very appreciative of their belongings (that covers an age range of infants right up to 21 yo's (ok not technically a child but they are to me I've watched them grow up)) but I am able to appreciate that this may be different for others (meaning people like you may see more entitled kids). I fail to see how that is me thinking my experience is the only right one! But whatever.

Being disciplined consistently is no guarantee children won't end up in the wrong crowd, i know several people with very consistent discipling who ended up in the wrong crowd taking drugs.

Sylvia - posted on 05/25/2012

1,315

8

31

Sherri, that's super obnoxious :P, but I don't think it's a new phenomenon -- there were kids and parents like that when I was in elementary school, too, including a family with triplets where the parents did all the kids' Science Fair projects every year :P

I personally was the most horrible teenager ever. It will serve me right if DD gives me a bad time over the next 10 years LOL.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/25/2012

3,377

8

66

No, you are absolutely correct. All teens have a selfishness to them, it is a normal part of their development. However, being entitled isn't. To expect everything and do nothing for it, is entitled IMO. I was just entitled, I cannot say if I felt more entitled, since my parents grew up without very much. My mother grew up with padlocks on her cupboards and fridge. They were very poor and she raised ALL of her 6 brothers. So, I cannot say, if I was more entitled than others but I was more than my parents were. ;)

Jodi - posted on 05/25/2012

25,983

36

3891

I do know you didn't say that. I am just wondering if you consider yourself worse than your parents' generation, or if you only consider others that way.

"as a teen and young adult, I most definitely thought I was! "

More entitled? or just entitled? it is NORMAL for teens to be selfish (as in only think of themselves, and not from the perspectives of others). It is a part of the development process involved in self awareness and maturity. By judging teens as selfish, you can't say they are worse than any other generation of teens.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/25/2012

3,377

8

66

LOL - now you know I did not say that. I did not say ALL this day in age, are entitled. However, as a teen and young adult, I most definitely thought I was! ;)

Now I work damn hard for my things. Hard to be entitled when I have no one to hand me things. I have been on my own for 19 years. It took sometime to realize, I was not entitled but I definitely grew up thinking I was. I had a mother that figured providing materialistic things would compensate for her emotional abuse and absence in my daily life.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/25/2012

3,377

8

66

Yep, a good read indeed and quite true. The problem is, the entitlement has been handed down, IMO. It has grown and is not slowing down any time soon. ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/25/2012

3,377

8

66

hmmm, I have travelled a lot too, Toni. I have also, lived on one said of Canada and the other side. Whatever. You can think what you experience is right, I will think what I experience is right. ;) Since, it is going to go by how you as an individual preceives things. I am a very observant person, always have been.

My daughter is 14 and she does have many friends. I can go by how they are raised and how they act. Now, as I have said, they are usually disciplined but most of the parents are NOT consistent. I call them good kids, simply because they are not into drugs or the alike but, as I previously stated, for a few of them, I can see this changing as they get a year or two older. Why? Because they are not disciplined well and they feel entitled. They are gooing to end up in the wrong crowd. I have been there as a teen myself, I can relate to why it occurs. ;)

Also, no one here and speak on the world as a whole. Unless you are some almighty and can oversee, everyone. Meh.

[deleted account]

Hmm and many suggests a majority, if it wasn't a majority you would have said some or maybe a few not many.

You are over generalising, there is more to the world than your little corner of Canada where you reside, You cannot assume something based on a small area (when you think of the grand scheme of the world it is small). Yes some children are entitled some but not many, most children, especially younger children are happy to play with the cardboard box. Children's behaviour to belongings is a direct result of society, however, most of the children I know are very appreciative of what they have and are nothing like you describe, yet I'm able to recognise this may not be the same for everyone, but I've travelled a lot so maybe that helps, idk.

Eating around a table has nothing to do with it, you can spend time together as a family without sitting at a table every night!

Sherri - posted on 05/24/2012

9,593

15

387

I do feel kids are worse.

Parents are afraid to parent and don't want to hurt their kids feelings. Hogwash man parent your child. Most parents have not my kid mentality and never let their kids face the music when they screw up.

I had one parent a few weeks ago (her child is in trouble in school every single day and even bit my son on the bus from Kindergarten so hard through his sweatshirt he broke the skin) actually come to me and ask why her son wasn't invited to my son's birthday party? It must be an oversight she proceeded to tell me because at this age every single child should be invited and I know you wouldn't have intentionally not invited my son!! Really and you wonder why your child feels entitled!!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/24/2012

3,377

8

66

Toni---Very few people actually do what you are saying though, you're making it sound as though a minority are the majority and that isn't the case. You're over generalising.

I am not sure how I am over generalizing, I didn't say it was the majority. I did say "many" but I did not say "most" or "all". It also just may be where I have lived, I can't answer that but I do doubt it. Now, where I live right now, most kids are disciplined. Most are fairly decent and respectful. However, many of them are still entitled. They do not take responsibility for their things and they do not understand the concept of working for something. If they wreck their things, the parents don't flinch, they just rebuy.

I actually know very, very few parents that server dinner at the kitchen table and the entire family sits and eats together, each day. It is not very common anymore. Maybe, it seems common to you because you do, do it. However, I bet you would be amazed if you took a look around or a census on your kids friends.

Sylvia - posted on 05/24/2012

1,315

8

31

I think there is a general trend -- not just among parents, but in North American society generally (and elsewhere in the English-speaking developed world) -- of believing our kids are less capable, less safe, less competent, and more in need of constant supervision than we or our parents or grandparents were at the same age. So you see adults (parents, teachers, children's aid workers...) freaking out about the very idea of a child doing something that they themselves did at the same age, or even younger. It's been documented that the % of kids who walk or bike to school has dropped hugely in the US, for instance, while the % of kids who are driven to school by a parent has skyrocketed. You see it on CoM whenever someone starts a thread asking how old is too old for boys to go into the ladies' with mummy, or how old is old enough to walk to school, or how old is old enough to stay at home alone for an hour ... that doesn't mean *all* parents think like this -- I know lots who don't! -- but in a lot of places, parents like me who let their kids do stuff like turn on the stove, ride a bike around the neighbourhood (with a helmet, of course;)), go to school on their own, etc., stuff that was taken for granted a generation ago, spend a LOT of time explaining why we honestly believe our kids are actually pretty safe. But -- I want to stress this -- it's NOT JUST PARENTS. And it's not laziness, and it's not just because there are more families with 2 WOH parents. It's a lot of different things.

And it *still* doesn't necessarily mean that all or even the majority of kids are undisciplined little monsters.

Jodi - posted on 05/24/2012

25,983

36

3891

Toni is right. It is not a majority that parent like this. It IS only a minority. I actually don't know anyone who has kids like you describe.

[deleted account]

Very few people actually do what you are saying though, you're making it sound as though a minority are the majority and that isn't the case. You're over generalising.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/24/2012

3,377

8

66

I am contributing our problem children to parents not spending the time they should be with their children, rather do to guilt and the child's' boredom, they purchase them everything under the sun (especially virtual gaming) and send them on their merry way to learn or play on their own (if you wanna call gaming a learning/playing experience). It has nothing to do with being home more, it has to do with how quality time is spent, if at all.

In addition to not wanting to rock the "discipline boat" in fear of being ridiculed. Therefore, they play a passive role in the discipline department.

Also, in not spending the effort in guiding their children to become self sufficient, independent young adults. So, there are multiple factors, in my opinion, just some parents include all of them, which creates very entitled children.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/24/2012

3,377

8

66

Well, just going by what I have witnessed. These males I speak of are not in school. They may have just got by grade 12. 3 do work, the other does not. One works in a warehouse, another at a convenience store and the other at Canadian Tire. They are what you call "spongers". They do not want to embrace adulthood, due to fears or inability from being coddled.

You don't think the parents of the *flower children* of the 60s were saying the same thing you are saying here about their over-indulged generation?

I don't think they were saying their children were entitled. Perhaps pot heads! Perhaps, free willed and not bothered of seeking goals and acting out on them. Which is why I have said, there are more than likely some common complaints. Although, my parents left home at 16, had a baby (me) at 17 and had awesome careers by age 18. So, the flower child era, is not something any of my family contributed to. They were all very hard workers and still are. ;)

Or is it simply a major societal change that we are still trying to understand and manage, and that our children are not over indulged, but that they think differently than we do because of their general environment?

I believe many children are over-indulged and less parents spend quality time with their children. I see it happening all too often. I have a friend that works for CPS, here in NS. She can vouch, that children these days are far less given hands on parenting and are over-indulged with materialistic items. They are left to "play" on their own, with all their wonderful virtual toys. they are not made to go out and get "real" play under their belts. Why do you think obesity is so prevalent? Because, parents are not taking the time to prepare healthy food choices and creating an active environment, for their kids.

Whether previous generations having difficulty understanding or accepting the youth, is a reoccurring phenomena, I cannot state for sure. I can only say, it is true for today and it can be distasteful, in the least.

If you see this, leave this form field blank.
Powered by RESPECT not THUMPS

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms