Leashes/Harnesses

Jennifer - posted on 10/27/2011

well Johnny, it's nice to know that you can AFFORD to just pop the dogs off at a kennel in a strange town on your way to an unexpected funeral but we didn't have that luxury or we would have left them at HOME! I have the pram for emergency situations because I come prepared. (Just like I used the dog leash and collar to keep an emergency from happening with my child. I was able to keep her from falling and skinning her knees with the one I had. The child ones would have ripped apart had I tried to keep her from falling while using them)

The Harnesses can be escaped very easily by smart children. Mine was smart and able to slip out of them easily. It is not surprising that she is currently working with the circus as a contortionist. Also... no one but YOU said anything about a choke collar. Heck, I wouldn't even use one of THOSE on my dog! The physiology may be different but a collar around the waist is not going to harm a child. We also have to take into account the harnesses that were made 17 years ago because that's when I needed them. They were not really designed for a child, they were a sloppy adaptation of a dog harness with a larger price tag.

Johnny - posted on 10/27/2011

Child harnesses are generally designed to be ergonomically safe for small children. Dog harnesses are generally designed to be ergonomically safe for dogs. Shockingly, dogs and children do not share a similar physiology and I would be quite concerned that a child could be injured using a dog harness rather than one designed for a kid.

You shouldn't require child harnesses to be that sturdy.They are for a reminder, for control, not for dragging a fighting kid down a street. The back pack leash my child received as a gift but never wore could honestly restrain her in pretty much any situation I could forsee. I certainly don't need a choke collar for that.

And dog prams are ridiculous. If the dog isn't supposed to be in a store, they shouldn't be in the store, riding or walking. Find a kennel.

Jennifer - posted on 10/27/2011

Hmm... Meggy you DID engage me so obviously you get a tickle out of it because you were talking about MY post. As for the dog stroller... it's a little difficult to WALK the dog in stores which don't allow them.... thus the stroller since the hotel we stayed at they could not be left in the room alone.

You just want to stop debating because you can't answer my question on what is the difference between a dog leash and collar and a child leash and harness except the name. I also think the ONLY reason you are having a problem with it being a dog leash and collar is because you are still holding a grudge from the last debate topic and needed to try to engage me somehow. So... what exactly IS the difference? What makes a child harness and leash better than a dog collar and leash? Have you ever used EITHER? Do you have any way to compare the two? I didn't think so.....

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/27/2011

Jennifer, considering how I saw you debate in another thread I've no real wish to engage you further. And I could care less if your dogs had a stroller. I know they make dog strollers- completely ridiculous though, if you have a dog walk the thing don't buy a puppy pram.

Jennifer - posted on 10/27/2011

Oh yes and what exactly is the difference between a dog leash and collar and a child harness and leash? The name? That's about it... well except the ones made for children are flimsy and less secure.

Jennifer - posted on 10/27/2011

Meggy- you forgot that they were rainbow colored. It was actually a nice collar that fit around her waist and had a clasp that when used was in the back and she couldn't open it like most of the "made for children" type.

Ohh and this is really going to burn you. I went to Niagara falls recently with my two dogs and THEY had a stroller!! They didn't have a problem riding in it either. LOL

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/27/2011

A dog leash and collar though? Honestly?

Janice - posted on 10/27/2011

I'm just jumping in based on the most recent responses. I've always been on the fence about child harnesses but leaned more toward I don't think they are needed for most.
Before my daughter was born I worked in daycare and could wrangle 5 toddlers by myself most days. Yet now I sometimes struggle with just one! It is so true that being a mom is completely different then caring for others kids.

With my almost 2 year old I never know what I will get. Some times she listens very well and we go to the store and I dont even constrain her in a cart. She will hold my hand no big deal. Other times she is in play mode and thinks its funny to run off and I am forced to hold by the wrist. With just her its no big deal but #2 is due in 5 weeks and I really dont know how I will manage my independent 2 year old and a newborn while out. It my be I have to start using a backpack harness, IDK. If I do though its for her safety - a tool- as others said.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/27/2011

I used to judge moms with kid harnesses to the extreme! I thought they were lazy a$$ moms who couldn't be bothered to teach their kid anything. But being here has helped me realize the true reasons moms use them and now my own child is showing me another reason to use them :)

Joy - posted on 10/27/2011

Well Katherine, at least you can say that you're flexible. I should probably let you know that years before my son was born, I was at the mall and saw a woman getting her son out of the van and into his harness (it was one of the puppy backpacks, I think) I remember thinking how I'd NEEEEVER do that and how cruel it was! Until I had one who would NOT hold my hand and we lived on a road where the speed limit was 50mph (and people did 60). First time he broke away from me on a walk and almost fell into the road, we bought one and said "F U" to anyone who would think anything awful of us. To us, our child's safety was more important. That's why I wish people would just view the harness as a tool. That's all it is. Some people need door knob covers. Some don't. Some use toilet locks, some don't. Some use all kinds of safety tools and some use none. The point is that no one is using the tools to do harm. They are safety devices. Now, yes, there are those rare occasions when you hear a story about someone who dragged their child through a store on a harness and even I will say that in that case it's wrong. I'd say the same thing if I saw someone dragging their dog accross the park. They are tools. If you end up not needing one, then feel lucky. If you do end up needing one though, then welcome to the club. Lots of things change when you actually have your own baby. I was 36 when my son was born to me and I'd had lots of time and experience with other people's babies. I had lots of pre-formed opinions about what I would and wouldn't do. And just about every single thing I "thought I knew" went into the shitter when it became about my own child. The rules change. And you have to change with them, no matter how ADAMANT you are. That's all I was trying to say.

Katherine - posted on 10/27/2011

But see Joy, my husband and I are adiment about certain things, but are flexible....thats what happens when we have children right??? So yes, I am saying no I'm not going to use a leash, and hope that I never have to, but if it comes down to life and death, I will resort to using, as a last resort.

Theres many things I've said I'm not going to do that I've done....induction, epidural, c-section, soother, formula fed (still a soft spot, would love to start nursing again),

Joy - posted on 10/27/2011

It's always fun to watch new, first time moms explode. I think I'm gonna officially call it a hobby of mine :P Just like what was done to me. We all learn. And time makes us change our minds on a great many things.

Katherine - posted on 10/27/2011

lol, i guess I was writting it as you were correcting it!!!!

Joy - posted on 10/27/2011

I apologize for misspelling your name and already corrected it in my previous post.

Katherine - posted on 10/27/2011

One can hope now can't they Joy!!! My family and my hubby's family have very relaxed children. I hope my son takes just after both of us, so far he is!!!



I know not all children are the same, but he is my child, if he misbehaves, I am able to spank him, time him out or whatever I feel like doing in the moment!! I also have the ability of picking him up and leaving the store or activity we are engaged in, no questions asked!!!!!!!



But going back to the pet things.....We bought the harnesses, used them once, felt our pets were to constricted and never used them again!!! We tossed them into the closet, as they need to be kept close as they hold their tags.



oh and PS....its KATHERINE not Kathleen

Joy - posted on 10/27/2011

Katherine, I don't care how much experience you have with OTHER people's children. I think it's fantastic you've had so much experience and I'm sure SOME of it will come in handy to you. But, please, and I really mean PLEASE, don't expect that that training will in any way compare to the experience you are about you have with your own child. Trust me. They will be angels and listen perfectly for everyone but YOU. It's gonna happen to you. I promise. And one day, when it happens, I just hope you remember those of us who used what TOOLS were available to us, and lessen your judgements. Like someone said earlier, if we care enough about our pets to put them in harnesses in dangerous situations, then why not our kids? What's the alternative? Do you really think EVERY child is gonna walk PERFECTLY beside their parent(s)? If you do, then you're living in a dream.



Now watch, she'll be one of those lucky girls who has a kid who actually DOES walk beside her and listen. And then she'll continue to judge the rest of us who aren't so lucky. Go friggin' figure.



Edited to correct grammar errors and a name misspelling.

Caitlin - posted on 10/27/2011

Lol Feen - I was taking forever to post that.. you beat me to it!

Caitlin - posted on 10/27/2011

Any experienced mom though would probably tell you that a child acts differently with a parent than with a caregiver. My kids test my limits all the time, they know how to puch my buttons, they know what sets me off.. When I leave them with friends and family, apparently they are helpful little angels.. It's an issue of trust, and with YOUR child it will be different from other children.. I've watched and cared for many children before as well, but NEVER experienced the things I am now experiencing with my children, and that's because they trust me to be there for them no matter what. It's what being a parent is about. Caring for a child and being a parent of a child is VERY different.

Charlie - posted on 10/27/2011

Whoops cross posted Jennifer !

I found that even teaching children at my school and then doing after hours babysitting them in their homes was completely different !

Charlie - posted on 10/27/2011

Teaching and parenting your actual child is two different things, two different relationships and two different experiences.

Jennifer - posted on 10/27/2011

FYI- from someone who was a nanny for YEARS before having my own. It is TOTALLY different when it's YOUR child. You will be amazed. LOL

Katherine - posted on 10/27/2011

Why would I eat my words, If you believe in something then it's possible!!! Yes my child may run, in the country, at his grandparents house, but I don't think he'll run in stores!!!

I have complete confidence in my ability to teach my child. I have been raising other peoples children for years so it's not like i'm new the the parenting world. Yes he is my first and only child, but I've raised many others from new born on, I have had no issues yet!!! And i've never used a leash, harness, doorknob covers, cabinet locks. Just my way of thinking and doing things

Joy - posted on 10/27/2011

Ohhhh, my "pet" peeve topic was going so nicely and then.......
"With respect and understanding he will listen and understand what we, his mom and dad expect of him, even at an early age."
Katherine, Katherine, Katherine. You can sometimes speak until you're blue in the face with respect and understanding to a toddler and sometimes they WILL NOT LISTEN. I really hope that your child doesn't turn into a runner. But if he does, I hope you're woman enough to eat your words.

WHY don't people just let this topic go? WHY can't it just be a tool, like a doorknob cover or a cabinet lock??? Seriously!!!!!

Jennifer - posted on 10/27/2011

Meggy- It is NOT taking it to the extreme. I looked at what was available and the dog leash/collar was more sturdy than what they sold for kids. The flimsy harness ones wouldn't have contained her. The ones with the velcro wrist strap were useless and a lot of the child like ones she could get out of! They have been building leashes/harnesses for dogs a lot longer than for children. I am more likely to trust the tried and true rather than the experimental versions.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/27/2011

That's true and right now I'm lucky that my husband will do that. Before when I was a single mom if my 7 year old was an escape artist like my brother and I were I'd've probably tied my child up.

I'm not opposed to leashes or harnesses though. My mom had to use one on me. We just about had to use duct tape on my brother.

Charlie - posted on 10/27/2011

But that is you in your situation, no one knows other peoples situation without asking and one child is quite different to quad toddlers.

It's easy to judge others but perhaps she is a single mother, or her husband works long shifts , we don't know if the woman with the child on the leash has a child with Autism , we don't know if her child is a bolter.

My point is we just don't know.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/27/2011

When I need to do grocery shopping I either make sure we go as a couple or I leave Lilli home with my husband and take Abby.

Charlie - posted on 10/27/2011

I will be honest I had never really seen them around, on children or in shops however my mother found one somewhere for our oldest child when she took him on holiday to Sydney. When she got home I tried it once and honestly I felt stupid ( for ME lets just make that clear) Cooper however loved his puppy backpack and would always ask for it but since he always holds my hand and I have never worried about it before coupled with the fact I felt stupid I never used it again.

As for other people I don't really care what they do, it's a saftey harness if other kids think that thing is as cool as Cooper did than I hardly think its demeaning them.

I now have two kids under three both walking and still dont feel the need for one *shrug* but thats me.

I used to be in the "leashes are for dogs brigade" but now I just think "do what you gotta do" this is one of those things where it isnt harming anyone, it could be saving someone and really do we need to be so rude and tear mothers down for using them?

Like I said I rarely see tham about but I did see one woman with quadruplet toddler girls and another child in a busy markets on leases and when I saw that I thought " Go mum !! " tell me what you would do if you needed to get your food shopping with quad toddlers and another child ?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/27/2011

I just mean if the stores sell products that are meant for children such as a monkey harness backpack with a leash (one of my cousins had that for her son) then why not use that instead of something that was meant for a dog. It makes more sense to me.

My mom had a leash for me that went around my wrist and her wrist if she couldn't hold my hand. Of course my mom is 4'11 so it was probably easy for her to hold mine or my brother's hand when we were younger. We were both taller than her by the time we got into grade 6

Cathy - posted on 10/27/2011

As long as your not putting a collar around your kids neck!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/27/2011

Jennifer, no one said a leash makes a person a bad parent. Most of us have said we've used a leash or harness on our child or children. But a dog leash and collar is taking it to the extreme IMO.

Jennifer - posted on 10/27/2011

Oh and for those of you who think that using a leash makes a person a bad parent, I disagree. I think ti makes us a better parent because we are willing to use any means to care for, protect and teach our children. (even if it isn't socially acceptable) BTW.... my daughter is now 17 years old and works for the circus as an Aerial artist. She is also a Senior in school with good grades. She doesn't do drugs, smoke or have sex....... so I think I did a pretty darn good job raising her.

Jennifer - posted on 10/27/2011

I used a German Shepard size rainbow collar around my daughters waist with a matching leash and a cute heart tag with her name and phone number on it. My sister was very critical of me for doing it until she took my daughter one day.

She had started walking at about 8 months old and NEVER wanted to be in a stroller after that. She didn't understand boundaries and she was fearful of no one. The only way I could keep her safe was to have her on a leash. Try holding onto a 9 month olds hand and walking through an entire store to do shopping. Talk about a pain in the back!

My thought is that we love our pets enough to put them on a leash to keep them safe at least until they are trained, why wouldn't you do the same for your children? I can't tell you how many skinned knees we avoided because I was able to catch her with the leash before she fell.

Krista - posted on 10/27/2011

Yeah, we've hardly ever used ours. My kid is really good about holding my hand, and we don't live in a place where there are large bustling crowds anyway. But if we ever go somewhere where there ARE large, bustling crowds, then you bet your bippy that his little bear backpack is going on him and will be tied to my belt while I hold his hand. Hell I'VE been inadvertently shoved away from friends while in large crowds, and I'm 5'8 and over 200 lbs. So the chances of my son being swept away are just too high for my comfort.

Kathleen - posted on 10/26/2011

I honestly do not know. Though my son was and is great at staying near me or holding my hand there are times that my hands are full or we know he'll be very curious to look at things. So I bought one. I will never approve or use one that attaches to their wrist as it is possible to jerk their arms and hurt them. I did buy the harness one that was shaped like a monkey. We used it for a bit, but came to find out our son never really left our sides and he did not cross a street without one of our hands. So we quit using it. Didn't take long. So IMHO i would wait see what happens. It is not one of those child items that I think is a must have so I wouldn't bother buying one.

Teresa - posted on 10/26/2011

I stated earlier that I never needed one, but if I live in a more populated area or if I went out w/ my twins as toddlers w/OUT my then husband.... I most likely would've had one (well, two). I had very well behaved little girls who would not bolt or hide and if just one of them was walking off.... they'd keep me or their father CLOSE in sight. But... if the 2 of them were right together... they'd walk off w/ all the confidence in the world as if one of their parents were right w/ them. ;)

Krista - posted on 10/26/2011

My child is not my pet, he is my son. He is a little being that I am able to talk to, and make sense with. With respect and understanding he will listen and understand what we, his mom and dad expect of him, even at an early age.

You DO realize that toddlers do not have the same impulse control as adults, right? I think what Cathy (and Lauralei, and myself) are saying is: wait and see.

You might be right. Maybe your child will be great at listening and won't be a bolter.

But maybe he won't. You just DON'T KNOW, so your premature confidence is more than a little amusing.

Besides, like Sherri said, in large crowds, even the best-behaved toddler can inadvertently slip out of Mom's hands.

And lastly, if you don't want to use them for your kid, and you don't need them, then good on you. Seriously. But statements like the one I quoted above? Yeah...you're doing a VERY good job at insulting the hell out of any mother on here who does use a kid harness, by implying that a) she's treating her kid like a pet, and b) that she's doing a shit job as a parent because she just doesn't explain herself with the respect and understanding that you have apparently mastered.

Brittany - posted on 10/26/2011

My son has ADHD and it came in handy quite a few times. We did not put it on him EVERY place we went but, we did use it a few times and it helped. Caoleb is very friendly. I was not so much worried about him wondering off as much as I was worried about someone trying to coax him.

The other two know better and are weary of those they do not know. We have not used the puppy dog in years.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/26/2011

What happens when you toddler wants to play hide and seek? Or tag? How do you expect to reason with a toddler that a scary person could take them away and hurt them? Honestly they don't get the fear and if they want to hide or run they will! Toddlers do as they please a lot and no amount of reasoning is going to keep your kid from ever wandering off.

I don't use a leash, but it probably would be a good idea if I did since Eric has stopped my heart a few too many times when he chooses to not respond and hide from me.

Your son could be an angel child, but then again that's how most would describe my sons behavior but he simply doesn't understand the possible ramifications of his hiding or running around in the stores.

Sure you can just stick your Kid in a cart but then they aren't getting any exercise so that's the perk of the restraint.
No it's not a pet, it's your child who means more to you then any pet and who you want to keep save above and beyond that which you do for a simple pet.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/26/2011

. He is a little being that I am able to talk to, and make sense with. With respect and understanding he will listen and understand what we, his mom and dad expect of him, even at an early age.


Sorry Katherine but this phrase literally had me laughing and trying to be quiet so I didn't wake my baby in my arms. Seriously with all the kid knowledge you have you should know better

Sherri - posted on 10/26/2011

Mine was never a bolter or a wanderer. My fears were when we went to an extremely populated place and they accidentally get separated from your hand and you can't get to them easily in a crowd. Such as our fall fairs when they are so small.

It has zero to do with treating them like an animal. Also have multiple babies at once and then try to keep them all in one place at the same time and pray to god nothing happens.

Those who don't feel a need great but those who don't should not judge others for using them and not be so close minded to not see a use for them as well.

Becky - posted on 10/26/2011

Faye, someone in the previous thread posted about how a leash literally saved her child from being kidnapped as well. Things can happen in the blink of an eye, even to the most well-behaved, compliant children with the most responsible parents. That is why, even if I opted never to use one myself, I would never judge someone else who chose to use one!

Faye - posted on 10/26/2011

Laurelai, Those devices are made. I just do not remember the company name. A friend of my mom's had one for her daughter. The device was designed to beep when the child got 10 feet or 15 feet away from the transmitter. They were shopping one day, the girl wondered off (within the transmitters range), mom knew she was playing within the clothes rack. The transmitter went off and mom called the girl back BUT she did not return and the transmitter kept going off. The store clerks knew mom and knew that she had this transmitter in her purse. One of the store clerks, slid the door shut on the front of the business, (mall) and the other clerk demanded that the lady with the girl hand the girl back to her mom. The lady swore up and down that the girl was hers and that she had forgotten the transmitter at home (yet had remembered to clip the child end on the girl's shirt).

Katherine, nothing against your methods BUT please wait until you have a second or third child who is a runner. My kid's dad nor I were runners, our oldest was not either. Our son on the other hand was a runner and I like you swore that I would never own a leash. I bought one after the first time he ran off on me. We only had to use it about 6 months but it did get through to him that he could not run from us.

Ashley=) - posted on 10/26/2011

I was like no way regarding them, my first was super good.
Then i went again lol and after she turned one she turned into a crazy lil diva.
No Shes very active and stubborn..really...i could really do with one but i run myself into the ground keeping up with her so i don't have to resort to the safety harness etc.

Do what you feel is best.There's nothing wrong with it.Its there to fit a purpose.So far i have managed to keep her in check but if things get worse i have no choice.

A safe child is all i care about.As much as shes different from our first, shes still the light of our life and it would not be the same without her.:-) Gotta do what ya gotta do lol:-P

Katherine - posted on 10/26/2011

Wow, thats support, thanks Cathy!!!!

I have no fear, I do not think my child will be a bolter, I was not, my hubby was not!!!

I work with children!!!! I've never had any bolters, no any issues taking them to crowded places, I've worked with infants through school age (12 years old), ingroups up to 15 children to myself. I don't think I'll have issues handling 1 single toddler who is my own!!!!

Cathy - posted on 10/26/2011

When your 7 month old is a 2 year old, come back and confirm that with us, Katherine.
Even the best behaved toddler has moments where reasoning does not work. At the stage your son is now you have no idea if he's going to be a bolter.

Needed a harness with my first, undiagnosed autism. My youngest for the most part is great and we don't use a harness... but occasionally he still bolts. I have a mini heart attack every time!

Katherine - posted on 10/26/2011

I made my eariler post and didn't really explain anything.

When we were childless we didn't want one, when we had a shower we recieved 2 leases, both of which we returned!!! My son is 7 months, army crawling and I'm sure will be an early walker and I will not put one on him.

I feel leashes are for pets, hell my cats have them. My child is not my pet, he is my son. He is a little being that I am able to talk to, and make sense with. With respect and understanding he will listen and understand what we, his mom and dad expect of him, even at an early age.

at 3 years old I travelled across canada with my parents, no leash. at 4 I spent 3 days in disney, with no leash and no running off. I think it's all about how you speak to and explain things to your child.

Yes I can see some people using them, but I def feel that you don't need them to live a happy safe life with your toddler

Jen - posted on 10/26/2011

When I was childless, I didn't like them and hubby swore we would never use one. Now I have a 3 year old who is CONSTANTLY in motion and my views have changed. lol. We don't have one, but there have been several times when it would have been useful. I think one thing that can make a big difference is how much walking one does in the course of their day. If I'm only walking out the front door to my car with my child on a not busy road, it's one thing. But if I'm going into the city and we'll be walking around all day, there's a lot more opportunity for him to bolt from me in a crowd.

Ashley - posted on 10/26/2011

I agree with Vicki, it's really not much different than strapping them in a stroller... Only difference really, is they're able to walk (which is healthier than just sitting there).

We fly a lot to see my parents that live in Michigan and sometimes I think it would be much easier if we had "baby leash" since she refuses to sit in her stroller during layovers. She wants to walk... and she's very curious so she's always exploring. It's hard to hold her hand with my hands full. :(

I'm probably going to buy one for this next flight.

Starfish - posted on 10/26/2011

I used the monkey backpack one with my now-7yo when she was about 2/3. She refused, absolutely REFUSED to hold my hand, she'd take off running without a moment's notice (I have nerve damage that makes it hard to chase her), and she'd freaking HIDE.



Yeeeeeah. After one too many near heart-attacks, I invested in a leash. I used it, and yeah I got stares and comments, but she also was safe, and both of us were happy with the arrangement. No big meltdowns over holding my hand for her, and no big panic-stricken moments for me. Win/win.



Eventually we didn't need it anymore, but for the time that we did, I loved it. I definitely believe in leashes. ♥