Leaving kids home alone

Erin - posted on 06/25/2012 ( 121 moms have responded )

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If you were invited to an outdoor party/bonfire at a neighbours house, that is directly across the street from yours - would you go leaving your young (let's say 3 and up) children home alone while they were sleeping?

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JoLee - posted on 06/27/2012

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Never! Only after age ten. I feel it is neglect and terrible parenting. I would bring them along or not go!

Jodi - posted on 06/27/2012

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It doesn't bother me that we disagree MeMe. But disagreeing doesn't make one or the other of us a better parent. Or more aware. Or right or wrong.

However, there is ONE fact that neither of us can deny, and that is that every situation is different.

I refuse to accept that I am (or have anyone accuse me of being) a bad parent for having left my then 2 1/2 year old asleep while I went to a neighbour's house for a little while with my monitor. It was no further away than it would have been if I had taken my book and gone out to the end of my yard on a bench seat under a tree at the back. I don't need to justify my actions to anyone, because no-one knows what information I processed in order to make that decision. I don't live in a bubble. Every situation is different. I also let my children climb trees, cross the road without holding my hand, go to another aisle at the grocery store, all at a fairly young age. All probably things other parents wouldn't do in a fit. My son was catching buses home from school on his own when he was 7. He was walking home or riding his bike by the time he was 8. I am sure other parents would have a pink fit over it.

None of the above makes me wrong.

None of the above makes you wrong.

It is all about what works for OUR family in OUR neighbourhood, in OUR particular situation and with OUR particular community support.

And that is exactly where I am going with THIS debate, is that whether you would leave your child while going across the road for a while depends on all of those things.

Jodi - posted on 07/01/2012

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"Oh, you have to cross the road to your neighbours backyard to hang out your clothes? Wow, I just hung my clothes out but my line is off of the back of my house. It spans 60' but I don't have to go across the street, to do it. ;)"

That's great that you can apply your situation to everyone. I congratulate you on that. Your truth is a very narrow one, but hey, it's your truth. I won't stomp on it. That's the world you live in, I have no right to ridicule it or tell you that it is wrong.

Jodi - posted on 07/01/2012

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"If you are across the road, you're too damn far, away. You do not know what is occurring in the home."

Well, in that case, next time I hang my washing out in my back yard, please feel free to call Child Protection.

Mary - posted on 07/01/2012

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I've been at the beach for a week, and only skimmed through most of these posts. As entertaining as the debate about farm life is, please forgive me if I ignore it, and only respond to the OP ;)

Like the OP, I have often had those moments of thinking, "What would be the harm?" if I ran the dogs around the block or some other short simple errand/visit while the girl was sleeping. It was just so damned tempting to me, particularly when she was still in a crib, and couldn't go anywhere. However, I just couldn't get over my own paranoia and the "what if's" to be able to do it. I am by no means a helicopter parent, and I can guarantee you that no one who knows me in RL would ever say I coddled my child. My daughter is 3.5, and although she rarely wakes up after going down for the night, and is perfectly capable of going to the bathroom or getting a drink of water independently, she is a bit different and disoriented/groggy on those odd occasions when she does. She can do these things independently during the day without issue, but at night, she seems to need and want the comforting presence of adult just with her if she's just woken up. She would be upset if she woke up and no one was (immediately) around.

It's actually also illegal in the state in which I live. In the US, this does vary by state. In Maryland, the law is this:

Family Law Article, § 5-801, provides:
(a) A person who is charged with the care of a child under the age of 8 years may not allow the child to be locked or confined in a dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle while the person charged is absent and the dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle is out of the sight of the person charged unless the person charged provides a reliable person at least 13 years old to remain with the child to protect the child. (b) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to a fine not exceeding $500 or imprisonment not exceeding 30 days, or both.

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MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Isobel---and if you make your parenting decisions based on legality instead of safety and solid logic, I wanna cry for the future of our country.

No where did I say this nor did I insinuate it. I have been on this thread since page 1, it wasn't until page 4 that I provided the legal requirements. Obviously, I use my brain, to make my parenting decisions. However, if I did want to leave my kids at home alone, the law would be a factor that helped deter me from doing so. Thanks for the insult, though.

Again, join the actual debate or go fly a kite!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/01/2012

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******MoD Warning******

This thread is starting to deteriorate into petty arguments. Lets get back on track, or this thread will be closed. Remember, a difference of opinion does not make it fact, no matter how much you ram it down someones throat. If you need to take a break, walk away until your head is cool.

~DM MoD Little Miss~

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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and if you make your parenting decisions based on legality instead of safety and solid logic, I wanna cry for the future of our country.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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LMAO - Oh yes, I forgot YOU know it all, why? Because you live in Canada? Well, so do I.

I am claiming, I have lived here for 36 years. I could give two shits if you don't agree. Your big STOP, is not telling me anything. I know enough and your continuous contradictions are proving nothing.

Tell me how it works than Isobel, since you know so much. Yes, Canadian laws start at Federal, from there Provinces are enabled to strengthen the laws (of course they can place some of their own laws, too) but they cannot weaken them. We don't work like the USA, Isobel, so stop trying to make it sound like we do.

Anyhow, Isobel. Why don't you join the actual debate, rather than sitting in the side lines and disputing irrelevant things?

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Actually Isobel. Most laws are federal in Canada, it just so happens they allow the province to strengthen them, they are, however, not allowed to weaken them.



Also, there is probably Provincial info because most people check with their governing province not federal.



Anyhow, this thread is not about this. My main intent was to show that it is illegal to leave a 3 year old on their own.

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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ok, I'll do that...and you call CAS and tell them they don't know the laws surrounding childhood neglect, also call the BC government and let them know that they are also publishing incorrect information because my daughter's babysitting course is more accurate.

it's also interesting, Meme, that everything I read has a PROVINCE'S name attached...perhaps AGAIN...this is not a federal issue.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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OK, then. We'll just go with that.

Perhaps you should contact the government and let them know they have displayed some incorrect info because Isobel, said so and was able to find some differing info. ;)

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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i DID dispute it. Successfully. At best your information is debatable, at worst simply incorrect.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Yes, Isobel, I am! I am going to go by what I gave for info, directly from GC and what my daughter was told. Like I said, dispute all you want.

Also, I took the babysitting course back in the day. I was taught that you must be 12 to babysit other children and you must be 14 to babysit your own siblings (this was in AB).

If you are allowed to leave your children younger than age 12, then why are the babysitter courses not offered until they are 12?

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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I'm not saying it's a great idea or that it's not dangerous...just that you are misrepresenting your country...again.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Did you want to see it again?



Some important laws that may apply to your family:

•Children under 12 years of age cannot be left at home alone or care for younger children.

•All children aged six to 16 must receive some form of education.

•Depending on which part of Canada you live in, you must be either 18 or 19 years old to buy or drink alcohol.

•It is against the law to use, buy or sell addictive drugs such as marijuana, heroin or cocaine.

•It is against the law to make any kind of sexual remarks or advances if the other person is not receptive.

•It is against the law to hit anyone, including your spouse or children, either in the home or in public.




http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/b...

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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Here's one from CAS

There is no law in Ontario that dictates a
specific age at which a child can be left unsupervised.
Dave Fleming, assistant director
of intake at the Children’s Aid Society of
Toronto, explains, “The law is purposefully
vague when it comes to choosing a specific
age, because there are many variables to
take into consideration.” “One eleven-yearold
may feel comfortable being left alone,
and knows what to do in case of an emergency,
while another eleven-year-old may
feel nervous and unsure of himself,” says
Fleming.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Get a grip Isobel.. The info I gave is directly FROM the GC site.



Besides, even in YOUR info, it does not state leaving your 3 year old is legal.

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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Government PDF from BC:

What’s neglect?
Neglect is when parents don’t give their child enough food, clothes,
or medical care, or if a child doesn’t have a safe place to live. Other
examples of neglect are parents who are drunk and drive with a child,
leave a child with someone who is too drunk or drugged to take care of
them, or let a child use drugs or alcohol. Neglect can include leaving a
young child alone at home or in a car.
The law doesn’t say exactly how old a child must be to stay alone. In
general, young children shouldn’t be left alone. If your child is between
10 and 12 years old, think about these things when deciding if you can
leave your child alone:
• How mature is your child?
• Where will your child be?
• Are responsible adults nearby if your child needs help?
• How much does your child have to do (for example, cooking or
caring for other children)?
• Does your child know how to handle an emergency?
• What time of day will your child be alone — and for how long?

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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What's funny? The fact that you are misinformed about the laws of you country AGAIN?

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Umm, I just posted it Isobel. It was from the government site, so you can think what you want but you are wrong! As, I also stated, my daughter was also told this in her babysitter course. You can dispute it all you like.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Jodi---"It is also the Governments, of where I reside. Not just my city or province, my countries law. ;) " Glad to know you think that every law made is a good and right one. Did you know in Kansas you can't carry an icecream cone in your pocket? Yup...government is always right, how dare us peons have a mind of our own. I also hope you never speed, or turn without signalling, or miss the trashcan with litter.



LOL - The laws you stated are far from ones that would bring CPS but whatever. Those laws are probably, rarely if ever, enforced. I can tell you right now, leaving your kids at home alone before the ag of 12, is enforced, here. My daughter just took her babysitting course and a Cop was a part of the dictation. He stated the law, at that time as well. This is one of the reasons, I replied with the law. I asked my daughter, if it was mentioned in her course and she said "yes" and continued to tell me what it was. You can go right ahead and go against the law. I prefer not to, take that risk.



No, I do not speed and I am in a habitual trance of using my signal light. Actually, it is one of biggest pet peeves, when others do not use it. I have been known to honk my horn and provide a nice finger gesture. ;)



Oh and no, I have never hit anything, well except that poor little bird that flew into my windshield a couple months ago. :(



And you are correct, I indeed misread your comment in regards to the unplugging the appliances. However, you are incorrect that I don't do it. We most definitely do. We do it because we don't want a fire when we are sleeping from an appliance, such as a toaster or coffee maker AND when we leave because we have a very much loved dog. However, there was a time we did not. It was not until we became educated, that we realized it was good practice.



Jodi----I mean, your car COULD start on fire too, and if you're unconcious, how's he going to get out of the carseat? If you roll the car down a hill, or into a river...he's stuck in a carseat with a potentially unconcious mommy. I'm not saying don't use a carseat, I'm saying the chances of dying in a fire are probably about equal to a car accident, I would wager even less actually. I will have to do some digging on actual information though.



This is about doing everything you can to mitigate risks that YOU CAN control. I can control having to leave my young children on their own but thereafter, it is out of my control. I can only take the most precautionary steps, when driving, anything thereafter, is out of my control. Therefore, the two scenarios are really not one in the same. I think you know that, as well. If you don't, well OK then.

Jane - posted on 07/01/2012

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No - absolutely not! I didn't leave my son alone for a minute, not for any reason and no matter how close, until he was over 10 years old. Little kids can be frightened if they wake up alone. And lets face it - the McGanns left their daughter alone whilst they went for something to eat and she was taken in that small window of time. My mother's next door neighbour left her son when he was 4 and he found a lighter and set fire to the house - he was fine as she wasn't far and was back just as it caught and got him out of there - but it could have been so much worse. I would just never take the risk.

Beth - posted on 07/01/2012

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How old are the other children? This makes a big difference. For instance, if I had a 3 and a 5 year old, no way. Too many variables at play there. Unless, as I think was mentioned by other people, you could be sure they wouldn't get out of bed, and you could have a baby monitor along to listen in. But, if the kids were 3 and 8 or something like that, I'd probably be ok, depending on the maturity level of the older child, and I'd likely ask them to stay awake (if it won't be too late). But I'd never leave small children, I've heard too many horror stories about them waking up, wandering around the house, and hurting themselves. Toddlers and preschoolers need a good set of eyes and ears to keep them out of trouble.

Jodi - posted on 07/01/2012

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Jodi Z---If you REALLY felt that way, you wouldn't put them in cars for anything other than something absolutely necessary. Like a trip to the hospital for illness. Otherwise...why would you risk it? You are much more likely to get in a car accident than have your house start on fire.

"Because it is LEGAL, leaving my toddler or young child unsupervised is simply not legal, here. I am also a very safe driver. I have never ever had an accident in 20 years. NEVER."

So if it were legal you would have no problem? Because when I was kid, it was legal to ride in the front seat of a vehicle without a carseat...but we never did. And, you may be a safe driver, unfortunately, you are not the only person who is allowed on the road with a vehicle. My sister, who had a perfect driving record was hit by a drunk driver...she is paralyzed for life. But hey...she was a good driver right?

"So, for you to originally say "I don't know what farms YOU have ever been on but....", is completely stating that I don't know what I am talking about and well, I do, for my experience and the facts of where I live"

I would suggest going back and reading some of your statements MeMe, your original farm statement started with "I dont know what farms you have been on" which is exactly why I used that line. Same reason I used the grandmother line...you used it. I use them to show you how incredibly inept YOUR statements are...obviously that went way over your head.

"Ummm, I didn't say you don't do it. I was calling bullshit on your comment, that all parents that leave their children unattended, do this. Since, I truly do not agree nor do I believe."
That's not what I said at all. I said that most peopel DON'T do that, including the parents (like yourself) who wouldn't dare step a toe outside while your kid is sleeping. I never said that all aprents who WOULD leave their kid inside sleeping do this, I said *I* do this, in reference to how I do my best to make sure a fire doesn't start in the first place (along with 6 smoke alarms, stickers on the outside of my children's windows and various other tools).

ETA:
Jodi Z---Heaven forbid our children are awake and on their own for 5 freakin' minutes.

"Ummm, the OP is talking about going across the street, into a neighbours backyard for a bonfire. Where did this 5 mins come from? I surely bet, it would be longer than 5 mins. "

I'll have to start putting a little winky face by my sarcastic comments I guess, 'cuz you didn't get that one at all.

"Oh and my kids are more likely to survive a car accident, than a fire." I dont' know the stats, but since you're MUCH more likely to *get* into a car accident in the first place vs having a house fire, I find this statement iffy. I mean, your car COULD start on fire too, and if you're unconcious, how's he going to get out of the carseat? If you roll the car down a hill, or into a river...he's stuck in a carseat with a potentially unconcious mommy. I'm not saying don't use a carseat, I'm saying the chances of dying in a fire are probably about equal to a car accident, I would wager even less actually. I will have to do some digging on actual information though.


"Have fun knowing that your house is on fire, when you're not in it. By the time you see flames, it is too late. How would you get back inside, anyhow? " Actually, I'm betting I would know there was smoke before I ever saw flames...have those little things called smoke detectors...I would hear those over the monitors as well since they're place just outside each bedroom doorway. As for getting back in, I would open the door and walk in? The only way I wouldn't be able to get into my house is if all 6 of my smoke detectors failed and my entire basement/first floor were engulfed in flames. If that happened, without me seeing/smelling smoke pouring from my house, I would most like have died IN my home anyways, as well as my children.

"It is also the Governments, of where I reside. Not just my city or province, my countries law. ;) " Glad to know you think that every law made is a good and right one. Did you know in Kansas you can't carry an icecream cone in your pocket? Yup...government is always right, how dare us peons have a mind of our own. I also hope you never speed, or turn without signalling, or miss the trashcan with litter.

Karla - posted on 07/01/2012

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When I lived in town, and my first born was young, hubby and I would just take turns staying in the house with her while she napped. It wasn't that big a deal, and neither of us would have been comfortable leaving her alone.

I'll add that when she was 6 and second born was 3, they did wonder alone a bit. At that time we lived in an rural area, so I don't know that I would have gone to a (close) neighbors while they were asleep - probably not though. My husband and I would just play tag team to stay with them in these cases.

No one ever suggested we were hovering; I think that's a gross misinterpretation of "hovering parent." I work at a college - there you see some disturbing hovering parents who like to monitor their 20 y.o. college kids. Not cool.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Sapphire - two of us posted the laws for where we live, so, I guess, you can no longer say, you haven't seen the law posted somewhere (maybe where you live, they allow a 3 year old to be on their own but I doubt it).



I would appreciate an explanation how anyone is a helicopter parent because they feel it is a disaster waiting to happen, while leaving their toddler or young child alone.



I have a 14 year old, nope, never left her alone while sleeping or awake and she is NOT rebeling. So, I will refrain from trusting you on that one.



ETA:

Also, this is a debate. Would you prefer everyone just gave their two cents and never came back? Then, that would not be a debate, now would it?

Tina - posted on 07/01/2012

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my mom did it to me and i turned out fine but we were also a community of 250 - 500 ppl and everyone knew everyone

Karla - posted on 07/01/2012

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Answering the OP:

I wouldn't do it. I would go in my back yard with a monitor, but the further away you are the more time it takes to get back home. The thing about that age group, 3-6 y.o., is they can quietly get into a lot of trouble. You know that feeling when the kids are too quiet? I'd be worried about that. Plus some kids that age get very frightened when they find themselves without any adult around.

And for that situation, and at that age you could ask a responsible 12 y.o. to come babysit.

I didn't read all the pages here, but I gotta say from what I read the whole "what farmers do" thing is so relative that its funny reading the debate. I completely and totally doubt that there are women (with sleeping 3 y.o., on a farm) who leave the house regularly to go out and milk 500 head of dairy cows, on the other hand I wouldn't doubt there are some that do. I'm just saying these absolutes on milking cows don't exist .... but my absolute does! What now? ;-)

Here's another scenario: From my own experience:

We were all at a hotel, and a friend was in the lounge playing in a band. While we were in the Lounge we were taking turns watching two babies and one child in one of the hotel rooms. (ages 4 y.o., 9 m.o., and 3 m.o.) The kids were never alone. My husband and I decided to call it a night and we took our two (4 y.o. and 9 m.o.)and another adult and headed home. That left the 3 m.o. and 3 adults in the room, and as we were driving away I saw the 3 adults walking to the lounge. They had left the baby alone in the room. Would you do that?

[deleted account]

It's illegal to leave a sleeping child unattended?

Jeez- I have never seen that on the law books anywhere.

Leaving a sleeping child unattended *might* be considered neglect. But I personally think this has gotten out of hand since every one of us parents differently.

You want to be a hovering helicopter parent? Go for it- these are the kids that tend to rebel when they hit the higher grades. Trust me on that one!

You are comfortable leaving your sleeping child unattended so that you can enjoy the company of your neighbros? Good for you- make sure you have a monitor or a system of knowing the status of your children.

But this whole thread seems to be a "one-up" each other, specially between a few people who like to instegate and get the last word in. One parent does not speak on behalf of ALL parents.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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LOL, seriously, Jodi? No one is judging anyone's standards that wouldn't do it? Oh, I could have sworn I saw a comment in regards to "helicopter parenting" and "coddling". Yeah, if that is not a judgement, I don't know what it is.

Of course I am speaking with MY opinion, why the hell would I speak of yours? I simply do NOT think it is OK to leave your young children unsupervised, whether they are sleeping or awake. I am not going to go against my beliefs and say, well, unless it works for you. How could I, when I don't think it is a good idea? Regardless, of whether some people do it. Again, it is illegal here, so it is rather apparent, it is not just my opinion. It is also the Governments, of where I reside. Not just my city or province, my countries law. ;)

Jodi - posted on 07/01/2012

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"Ummm, the OP is talking about going across the street, into a neighbours backyard for a bonfire. Where did this 5 mins come from? I surely bet, it would be longer than 5 mins."

Um, for some it would be a LOT less than 5 minutes. We don't all live in your part of the world MeMe. I recognise by your standards that means it doesn't happen a lot, and we are all out of the ordinary, but hey, at least we are not judging you by our standards on this one.

Jodi - posted on 07/01/2012

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" If you are across the road, you're too damn far, away. You do not know what is occurring in the home."

In your opinion.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Oh and my kids are more likely to survive a car accident, than a fire. You see, I use ever safety requirment in the vehicle. This is from placing my son in the middle of the back seat, in his 5 point restraint car seat and my daughter in the back seat with her seat belt. I have a newer vehicle (2 years old), which has all the latest safety technology.

I don't have anything in my home, to automatically, pick my toddler up and get him out of the house, if there is a fire and I am not immediately available. Since, it is the smoke that kills, well before the flames. Have fun knowing that your house is on fire, when you're not in it. By the time you see flames, it is too late. How would you get back inside, anyhow?

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Jodi Z---This was in reference to my unplugging appliances. It's nto bullshit, If I'm not using something I unplug it. That's whether the kids are asleep or awake. Since, you know...fires can happen during the daytime too. I was raised with this, it's just what I do.



Ummm, I didn't say you don't do it. I was calling bullshit on your comment, that all parents that leave their children unattended, do this. Since, I truly do not agree nor do I believe.



ETA:

Jodi Z---Heaven forbid our children are awake and on their own for 5 freakin' minutes.



Ummm, the OP is talking about going across the street, into a neighbours backyard for a bonfire. Where did this 5 mins come from? I surely bet, it would be longer than 5 mins.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Jodi Z---So, what YOUR Grandmother did was so not common. Just saying.



I also said, I wasn't only pertaining to my Grandmother. As I said, my mother and her husband owm 200 head of beef cattle. No, she does NOT help maintain the farm. I also said, that I know several dairy farmers and NO, the mother does NOT help maintain the farm.



I am not disputing that in YOUR area it may be different but in my area, including Alberta, Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia, the farmers I know (which are many) do NOT have the mothers, helping with the farm maintenance. So, for you to originally say "I don't know what farms YOU have ever been on but....", is completely stating that I don't know what I am talking about and well, I do, for my experience and the facts of where I live. Thanks, for your input.



Jodi Z---If you REALLY felt that way, you wouldn't put them in cars for anything other than something absolutely necessary. Like a trip to the hospital for illness. Otherwise...why would you risk it? You are much more likely to get in a car accident than have your house start on fire.



Because it is LEGAL, leaving my toddler or young child unsupervised is simply not legal, here. I am also a very safe driver. I have never ever had an accident in 20 years. NEVER.



Jodi Z---There are a lot of things I don't do while my kids are awake. Like have sex, watch R rated movies etc etc. So actually, them being asleep DOES change things. Also, my 3 year old is often awake and on her own. If I take the twins outside to play and she wants to play in room , I let her. If we're visiting my parents house, she plays outside on her own often. Heaven forbid our children are awake and on their own for 5 freakin' minutes.



At least you are still immediately available, while having sex or watching R rated movies.



I would also never ever, leave my 3 year old on their own, to play in their room, while I was outside. That is very trusting of you. A child of that age, simply cannot understand the ramifications of getting into something they shouldn't. How sad that would be, if it ever happened to you. I am just not one to ever take such a chance. I am in the mind-set, that if it can be avoided, then avoid it.



Our children are only little for so long. Why would anyone want to try and make them self sufficient at the age of 3? That I will never understand. I guess, that is why there are laws here. Since, it is obvious some parents, just don't clearly think of the serious consequences that could occur. Again, I don't live on the "It would never happen to me" attitude. I am no longer a teenager, I grew past that trivial thought process.

Elfrieda - posted on 07/01/2012

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LOL, Erin, you picked a good topic! I'm really enjoying this thread, what with the strong opinions and farm habits/history tangent. Very entertaining. :) I'm out, I already said what I think, but I'm still enjoying the read.

Jodi - posted on 07/01/2012

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"Well, Jodi, I have been on many many farms. Not just my grandparents, they live in Saskatchewan which is a farming province and I lived on farms, every single summer while growing up. Also, like I said my mother and her husband also have a farm and it has been around for 200 years. It was passed down to my mom's husband and his mother stayed home and minded the kids, while the men and boy teens farmed. I know many many farmers here too because Nova Scotia IS a farming (and fishing) province and every single family, I know, the mother stays home and minds the kids. So, what YOUR Grandmother did was so not common. Just saying."

Yeah, I live in a farming community also. My grandparents farm has been handed down through the generations, I also cited several other farms, if you really wanted me to go through the list of every person I know who liveso n a farm and whose farm I have been on...it would be pages. Perhaps it's different in Canada, here in my area, the women buck up and help with the work and both parties raise the kids and the kids help on the farm too. So, what YOUR Grandmother did was so not common. Just saying.

"Yeah, sorry but I call bullshit on the above "bolded" portion of your comment. I highly doubt this. Also, if you have to do this because you want to leave your kids unattended, I think you have to take one too many steps, to leave them alone"

This was in reference to my unplugging appliances. It's nto bullshit, If I'm not using something I unplug it. That's whether the kids are asleep or awake. Since, you know...fires can happen during the daytime too. I was raised with this, it's just what I do.

"This is about our little KIDS! Why would anyone in their right mind be willing to chance their little hearts, minds and souls?"

If you REALLY felt that way, you wouldn't put them in cars for anything other than something absolutely necessary. Like a trip to the hospital for illness. Otherwise...why would you risk it? You are much more likely to get in a car accident than have your house start on fire.

"I fail to see how, just because they are sleeping, anything changes. They could wake, now that means they are awake and on their OWN. "

There are a lot of things I don't do while my kids are awake. Like have sex, watch R rated movies etc etc. So actually, them being asleep DOES change things. Also, my 3 year old is often awake and on her own. If I take the twins outside to play and she wants to play in room , I let her. If we're visiting my parents house, she plays outside on her own often. Heaven forbid our children are awake and on their own for 5 freakin' minutes.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Oh, you have to cross the road to your neighbours backyard to hang out your clothes? Wow, I just hung my clothes out but my line is off of the back of my house. It spans 60' but I don't have to go across the street, to do it. ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Some important laws that may apply to your family:

•Children under 12 years of age cannot be left at home alone or care for younger children.




And there it is right there! Nothing about out of sight. It is simply ILLEGAL, altogether.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Jodi---"person charged is absent and the dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle is out of the sight of the person charged"

And there it is right there....... "out of sight". No-one here has ever suggested out of sight.


Maybe not for you, Jodi. I disagree this is for everyone, here. If you are across the road, you're too damn far, away. You do not know what is occurring in the home.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Most parents understand that it is always wrong to leave an infant or toddler home alone while you go out - even for a quick run to the store.



Apparently, the above is not true, at least not in this thread.



Parents Are Responsible for Supervising Their Children

The law says that you are responsible for supervising and caring for your child. If you decide to leave your child home alone and something happens, such as a fire or an injury, you might get a visit from the police or children's services. In many states, child neglect or lack of supervision is a crime - usually a misdemeanor - so you could even spend time in jail if you're found guilty. To avoid problems, always make sure a child left home alone is prepared for emergencies.




I highly doubt a toddler or any child under the age of at least 7 (but I would really say age 12), are not capable or prepared in case of emergencies.



http://family-law.lawyers.com/child-abus...

Jodi - posted on 07/01/2012

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"person charged is absent and the dwelling, building, enclosure, or motor vehicle is out of the sight of the person charged"

And there it is right there....... "out of sight". No-one here has ever suggested out of sight.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Mary---It is the same here, in Canada. However, every single resident of the Country must abide. This is a law that is NOT allowed to have any differing legalities per Province.



Laws



Laws maintain order



Canada is governed by a system of laws. These laws are created by governments that are chosen by the people. Laws in Canada apply to all people, including the police, judges, political leaders and those who work for the government.



The main reason Canada has laws is to keep society well ordered, to make sure there is a peaceful way to settle disputes and to express the values and beliefs of Canadian society.



In Canada, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.



Equality under law



We call our system of laws the justice system. Everyone in Canada, whether they are a citizen or a permanent resident, is equal under the justice system. In Canada, women can have the same jobs as men and all the same responsibilities. People in Canada are not given better jobs because of their name, the amount of money they have, their social class or their sex.



Some important laws that may apply to your family:

•Children under 12 years of age cannot be left at home alone or care for younger children.

•All children aged six to 16 must receive some form of education.

•Depending on which part of Canada you live in, you must be either 18 or 19 years old to buy or drink alcohol.

•It is against the law to use, buy or sell addictive drugs such as marijuana, heroin or cocaine.

•It is against the law to make any kind of sexual remarks or advances if the other person is not receptive.

•It is against the law to hit anyone, including your spouse or children, either in the home or in public.



What happens if you do not obey the law?



If you break a law in Canada and the justice system finds you guilty, there will be consequences. For minor offences such as theft and dangerous driving, you may have to pay fines, do community service and spend a short time in prison. For more major offences, such as hurting someone, you may go to prison for a longer time. For serious offences, such as killing someone, you may go to prison for life.



Your duties under the law



Every resident of Canada must report to the police any crimes that they know about or that they see happen. Canadian residents may also be asked to help the criminal justice system by sitting on a jury. To sit on a jury, you must be a resident of the province where the court case is being heard and also be at least 18 years of age. Rules about juries vary among provinces and territories.




http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/b...

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 07/01/2012

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Again, I am not talking a farm just for the family. I am talking large farms, ones that sell their food, milk and meat to the market. So, perhaps that is the difference here.

It is not a view, it is fact. I have grown up on farms. This is how it was and still is, today.

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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every show about farmers i've ever seen has shown the women helping with the farming...NOT just staying home and cooking...i think you have an idealized view of womens' lives on the farm.

Isobel - posted on 07/01/2012

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me thinks that for the MAJORITY of history, the ladies helped out on the farm too...at least that's my understanding after visiting pioneer village.

Sherri - posted on 06/30/2012

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Jenny no disrespect but you are such a wise ass it makes me laugh so I mark them funny. Because I truly find your post funny.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 06/30/2012

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You got it and you got it good.



To be honest, I can no longer stand debating with you. So, I will refrain from now on in. I find your supposed debating tactics, really annoying.

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