Leaving your kid in the car

Isobel - posted on 12/04/2009 ( 95 moms have responded )

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I, personally believe that there is a big difference between 60 seconds and 60 minutes...I have heard horrendous stories of children dying after being left alone in cars for extended periods of times...but...I have also heard horrendous stories of women being arrested after stepping 15 feet away from their car while their baby was still strapped in....how do you feel on the topic?

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Charlie - posted on 12/07/2009

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By far the most common type of injury accident involving children are those that also involve motor vehicle collisions. According to the National Center for Statistics and Analysis (NCSA), nearly 250,000 children are injured every year in car accidents.

This means that on any given day nearly 700 children are harmed due to accidents on our roadways. Of the 250,000 kids injured each year, approximately 2,000 die from their injuries. Children make up about 5% of total fatalities due to car accidents. In fact, for children between the ages of 2 and 14, motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death.

Once again does this mean we shouldn't drive at all with children in the car ??

Lets compare it to children left in a car unattended .
According to SAFE KIDS, an average of 25 American children die each year as the result of being left in a car on a warm day.

Hmmmm seems cars are death traps and all kids should be kept as far away from them as possible but is it possible or reality ? NO it isnt .
And as far a statistics go its far more dangerous to be in the car driving with your kids in the back than to have your car parked , brake on and keys out of the ignition while you dash in to pay gas .

Iris - posted on 12/08/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

if you dont like the way christians and other americans express their faith in this country..then you are welcome to take your atheist behind elsewhere..no one is making you stay here and pollute this country with your poor attitude and dirty mouth. And if anyone needs the protection and help of the Lord IT IS YOU!!! so again I say GOD BLESS GOD BLESS AND GOD BLESS


Ok, so here I sit thinking that this is a Global community and not American one. Yeah, I also thought this was an internet community not a country... So just in case you need an explanation: Jo is in Canada and is using the global communication so she and everyone else in here have just the same right as you to believe what they choose. If anyone should leave here it should be you and you narrow minded opinion.

[deleted account]

Well said Jo!!! You are doing a great job of expressing youself and defending yourself. You have been forced to defend yourself and you are doing so in a way that does not make you stoop down to the attack level. You have presented your points clearly and for that I am appreciative.



I love this community (DM that is, not necessarily CoM...) and it is nice to see a good debate, but I can't help but wonder how it affects our families and our lives when we get so worked up and negative about things. I have gotten worked up over issues (not on here, but another discussion group I was a part of a year or so ago) and when I realized how much my negativity was affecting my family I stopped conversing with those people immediately. I do not come on here to get pissed off (crap, I really hope that's not considered "vulgar language!" oh goodness... :P tee hee hee...). I come on here to hear other people's opinions (whether I agree with them or not) and to give my own. The point to it is to give my own opinion in a polite and respectful manner and to respect other people's opinions. If I am entitled to my own opinion, then why should I believe someone else is not entitled to theirs? I can only control what I say on here and how I react to what is said by others. I have no control over what anyone else is going to say, how they are going to react to what I say, or what they are going to say themselves. If I have no control over others, why should I waste my time to try? Of course, if I was personally attacked I would respond (and again, Jo, you did a great job), but I would not stoop down the level of doing any attacking of my own. That's just rude and not the tone we are trying to set here in this community. I enjoy having somewhere to go in my day to enjoy a plesant conversation (with both assenting and dissenting opinions) and when threads take nasty turns (as this one did) it makes me incredibly sad.

Isobel - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

That is true Jo things do happen everywhere..and while I'd love to say that no I dont take them to the bathroom and that with me..anyone that has toddlers knows that majority of the time..yes they do follow me everywhere around the house..I think some of you have taken my opinion way too personally...and need to just relax. Btw..profanity was not necessary to make your point here..and was not appreciated..thanks :)


I know now what it was that offended me and made ME in particular take offense...it was the insinuation that "MOTHERS" who leave their children unattended in a vehicle for a few "SECONDS" are not really "mothers"...that's what the quotation marks mean...



in case that was not intentional...that's how it reads (especially when combined with lots of caps and explanation marks) 



And it would follow then, that all of the mothers who already posted that they would or have left their child for SECONDS are indeed not really mothers either...get it?

Lindsay - posted on 12/07/2009

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For some reason, I have read this post but haven't yet commented on it. So back to the original question....I absolutely think that being gone 60 seconds or 60 minutes is an entirely different story. I also think it depends on many different things like the weather and the place. I don't typically go anywhere that is a run in and run out situation so I'd say that I always take the kids in with me. If I get gas with the kids, I pay at the pump or go to a full-service gas station if I'm using cash. Most of my errands are either a quick run through the drive-thru or something that takes longer requiring me to take them with me. But there have been MANY times in which I get home and one or both of them are sleeping and I unload my car, close up or roll down the windows (whether it's hot or cold) and let them finish up napping while checking every few minutes to see if they are up or not. Often we get loaded up in the car and I realize I've forgotten something, left on my straightener, or just needed to use the bathroom. I'm not going to take them out for something as quickly as that.



The point I'm making is that a question like this doesn't have a black and white answer. We all base decisions on circumstances and need to use our common sense. When people use words like "always" and "never" it sets them up for a defense they can't accomplish. Nothing is ever totally black and white. Their's always some gray! =)

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Nikki - posted on 01/28/2010

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I agree with you I have left my son in the car few times for instance when I'm getting gas I'll fill up then move the car to a spot near the doors and lock the car. Im not going to wake my son up for 3 seconds of running inside two feet away to hand the cashier a twenty, If you can see the car and it's locked and you are not gone for more then a couple moments I do not see a big deal. Mind you if I was running into the grocery store or shoppers and I cannot see the car that's different story regardless how long I am going to be.



Before I had my son we were on our way to my mom's for mothers day and we stopped to pick up flowers and parked in the LCBO parking lot, there was a lady running into the LCBO as we were getting out of the car, she asked if we could watch her daughter as she ran in quickly ( she must have been maybe a month or two old) I was in absolute shock over the fact she asked us random strangers to watch her newborn baby, yes we look decent but ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?! there is no way in hell I would trust any stranger to watch my baby, she even left the car running while she went to get liquor, I could have easily hopped in and bye bye baby and car. They are two different circumstances entirely.



I think if you are a couple feet away and in PLAIN view of the car and it's locked you are still supervising your child and they are safe and it is not something to be arrested over.

Veronica - posted on 01/20/2010

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I didnt mean it literally Morgan - I just wanted to make a point. We cannot be there 24 hours a day for our children - but we can take the precautions, and do our best to make sure they are safe as possible in any given situation - and thats where we can only do the best we are able - the rest is faith. And Im not arguing about how you are with your son either - I think you make a good point about adapting, etc. But its not what works for everyone - doesnt mean we are in the wrong, just means we are in different circumstances than you may be. I commend you for taking those extra steps to ensuing more safety for your child. And thanks for your outlook - its good to hear different perspectives.

Veronica - posted on 01/20/2010

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Morgan, I think that is unfair to say. This goes back to a previous argument on this forum about even being in your own home. Im assuming by your response that your child is attached to your hip when you use the bathroom, cook, shower, and sleep - because there are a lot of things throughout the day that come up, in your own home where your eyes are not always on your child, and your child isn't 'attached' to your hip through every waking minute of every day.

I dont see it as an inconvenience to take my children into the gas station to pay for the gas, if was to mean their safety to be with me, but it is very impractical for me to unbuckle five children, load them out of the truck, haul all five into a convenience store, pay the the $10 or so in gas, walk all the way back out, and then proceed to get them all buckled in the truck again. Maybe in the summer when it is warm this may not really be an issue, but during the winter I am def. not hauling my kids out into the weather for this. My children are 7, 5, 4, 2, and 1 years old. Its a lot of work going to a regular store as it is.

One child is one thing- but a few to a handful is another. And im not saying that my children's safety isnt important - it just literally is very very impractical for me to haul ALL my children in, for in and out places. And I dont have the luxury to always have help either - my family isnt always around, and when my husband leaves to work - he is gone from 1 pm til 11:30/12 at night. Im on my own. This is how I have to do it.

Michelle - posted on 01/20/2010

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Morgan, I agree with you that if I were to leave my son in the car with it running, doors unlocked and walk back to my apartment which is at least 50 feet away and completely out of sight that would be incredibly dangerous. But we're talking about being less than 15 feet away in full view of the car with the doors locked and the keys in our hands for less than two minutes. That is not dangerous. It's just as dangerous as closing the bathroom door on my son for the 90 seconds it takes for me to pee. I don't think that my analogies are extreme at all. Letting your child walk to school when "so many" children get kidnapped on their way to school is easily a comparable debate. I said nothing about comparing SIDS to 16 year olds driving. I'm talking about real issues that are comparable-- is it really safe to allow a16 yo to drive? Is it really safe to let your kids walk to school alone? Is it really safe to have them on a separate floor of the house? These are things that all parents face that have to do with our kids' safety. It's just a matter of take the precautions necessary, in this case locking the doors, cracking windows if necessary, etc. None of us are talking about walking out of sight of our children or leaving them while we go shopping for a couple hours.
I respect that you have made the choice not to do this. I just think it's being a little judgmental to call those of us who do this lazy. We're not lazy. We've simply made a different decision than you have.

Veronica - posted on 01/20/2010

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Hahaha, Cathy - its a job, let me tell ya - I have to strategically plan it out! My action plan - get to the store, grab a cart, unload them all (three go in the cart the older to walk along side me) - pile two of them full of groceries (that are in the cart), get to the check out - dodge the candy on display next to the conveyor - get it all bagged, back in the cart, hall them all back to the truck, unload, buckle them up - and PHEWWWW!!!!!
This is why i try to go alone, or have someone with me to stay in the car with them or help me in the store.

I did want to add to the conversation, that regardless of circumstances, it is still scary to leave your children in the car - I ALWAYS worry about the what ifs - even if it is for seconds. I just try to make sure i go in and get out as fast as possible. There will never be guarentees - but like i said, its either i run in, get it done and over with - or lug out a handful of kids to make a two second ordeal turn into 20 minutes.

I did watch a story about a lady who had three boys. She forgot something in her home. She quickly ran to get what she needed, and when she got back to the car it was on fire!! Here her older son got a hold of a lighter/matches or something in the car, and started something on fire, it caugt to the baby's blanket, and the baby and the middle oldest boy (still toddler age) were burnt badly - baby i think the whole face. So - dont forget little things like that in your cars too!! (just something to think about)

Jodi - posted on 01/20/2010

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Quoting Kerry Margereson

i think if u r with in a gud distance ov ya car or if u r only a couple ov seconds then it is o.k because in u.k u have 2 be in a car seat until the age ov 4 then booster seat after that and if there strapped in then they arnt going 2 cause any trouble all ways lock ya door





I have to say, I agree with Jo, I can't understand it either.



Please, if you are going to debate in this community, PLEASE use English, because otherwise I, for one, will dismiss your opinion as irrelevant because I can't be bothered trying to decipher it. I'm probably not the only one either.

?? - posted on 01/20/2010

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Quoting Kerry Margereson

i think if u r with in a gud distance ov ya car or if u r only a couple ov seconds then it is o.k because in u.k u have 2 be in a car seat until the age ov 4 then booster seat after that and if there strapped in then they arnt going 2 cause any trouble all ways lock ya door






What? Seriously, I can't understand anything that says...

Michelle - posted on 01/20/2010

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hee hee I wasted my time reading the whole thing too....
Ok. I would like to add my opinion here. I leave my son in the car VERY rarely, but that's because I live in an apartment complex where the parking lot is about 50 feet away from my front door and completely out of view. However, I do leave him parked in front of the door at the gas station, in the driveway if I'm running up to a front door for something, 10 feet from my communal mailbox, etc. Never longer than about a minute, never out of my sight, and never with the car running, keys in it, or doors unlocked. Morgan, I agree with you that in AZ that is definitely not an option because of your weather. It's also not an option here in CO when it's -2 outside. However, leaving my son in the car when it's impractical to unbuckle him and rebuckle him is not lazy. I don't know about any of you, but my son HATES getting in and out and in and out. The fewer times I have to take him in and out the more I get done, and the happier he is.
Obviously there are cases of horrible things happening to children when their mothers do things like what I do. However, that happens a lot. I'm spacing on the girl's name-- the one who was kidnapped like 14 years ago and was recently found being held in her captors' backyard? She was kidnapped while walking home from school. Does that mean that you are going to take the time out of your day to walk your children to and from school every single day until they graduate high school? 16 year olds die all the time from driving irresponsibly. Does that mean that we should not allow our kids to get their drivers licenses? Elizabeth Smart was taken from her bed while she and her parents were sleeping. Does that mean that we should no longer sleep at the same time as our children? Things happen all the time that are horrible and I wouldn't wish them on anyone. However, our jobs as parents are to do the best we can, and maintain reasonable rules. It's unreasonable to not let our children grow up a little, and it's unreasonable to expect them to be two inches from us at all times.

Christy - posted on 01/19/2010

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wow, i just wasted a half an hour of my life reading this entire thread lol. it got so off track but it was like a car crash, so awful that i couldn't look away hahaha.

anyways, i do think there's a huge difference between 60 seconds and 60 minutes and that age and weather play a huge role. i feel apprehensive about leaving my 18 month old strapped in her car seat in my own parking space in front of my apartment when i forget to grab something however if the something that i forgot is important i will do it anyway- with my blinds up and the front door open so i can see and dash =).

i have no problem leaving an older child in the car for a little while though, maybe 15 mins or so at most. for example, my mom used to let me stay in the car if i wanted to starting at age 9 if she only had to run into the store to grab a few things. she turned the car off, put on the E. brake, took the keys and told me to lock the doors. i preferred this to having to wander around with my mom and will afford my daughter the same luxury. i was never left in the car in extremely cold or even moderately hot weather so there was no problem and i know there will be no problem when my daughter reaches that age. i live in a very safe little town and know for a fact that people in my area still feel comfortable doing this, as i see older kids in cars at the super market.

Veronica - posted on 01/18/2010

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Im not sure what the 'laws' are where i live - when im out and about with my kids - each time varies whether i leave them in the vehicle or take them in with me. First of all I have 5 children. When i get gas, or grab something quick out of the convenience store (drinks/snacks) I do not take my kids in with me - could you imagine trying to get in and out of the gas station and there's some lady with a shit load of kids in your way? The convenience store is usually packed enough with hustling people. Plus, im not unbuckeling, and unloading five kids, just to throw a few dollars for gas, or grab a quick drink. Same with stopping at the post office - i leave them in the car as well, to drop off a letter. Im not goign to unload kids for a two second job.

As for errands and shopping -- i either pile them all in with me to the store, get a sitter for the day to watch them at home, so i can run, take only one or two for a smaller load, or bring someone with to help me out.



Finallly -- i try to make my runs in the morning, when the hubby is home - and i can run by myself. But when he leaves, and i need something - then i implement my plan of action for what i need to do.



I wont say it doesnt bother me to leave my children in the car - anything can happen at any given time. But for me, logically and reasonably, with this many children - its the way i have to and need to do it.

Kerry - posted on 01/15/2010

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i think if u r with in a gud distance ov ya car or if u r only a couple ov seconds then it is o.k because in u.k u have 2 be in a car seat until the age ov 4 then booster seat after that and if there strapped in then they arnt going 2 cause any trouble all ways lock ya door

Rosie - posted on 01/15/2010

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i don't think anyone can say without a doubt that they've never left their kids alone in the car by themselves ever. at the store what do you do with the cart when you are done? u put it back in the cart corral thingy while your kids are already snug in their seat belts along with the rest of your stuff.

loureen made a good point with her car statistics, should we just never let our kids in the death trap called a car? no it's not practical and never will be. leaving your kids in the car accidentally is something scary. i did it once and i felt so horrible i could've died. i went to the DMV to renew my lisence and brought my toddler child with me, as there was nobody else to watch him. i completely forgot i had him with me, cause it's not a task normally done with a child. he was also unusually very quiet that day. luckily it didn't take forever like it normally does, and it wasn't too hot that day-low 70's. when i got back in the car when i was done i realized what i had done and became hysterical! i could not believe i did that! anybody who could intentionally do that and leave them there for a long time unattended i cannot understand! yet after all of this i will choose to leave my children in the car while i go put the shopping cart away or pay for my gas just as i always do, because it just does not seem practical to do it any other way.

Krista - posted on 12/14/2009

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I'm not going to get too into this particular debate, as it tends to get fairly heated. But, I will say that if we mothers try to avoid every single thing that could possibly harm our child, we'll drive ourselves nuts. I'm a lot more likely to be hit by a car while taking Sam for a walk in the stroller, than for some wacko to steal my car with Sam in it while I run into the gas station to pay. But obviously, I keep taking him for walks, and I just make sure to stay well to the side of the road and watch for traffic. And if I leave him in the car for 10 seconds to slap a $20 bill down on the gas station's counter, I make sure that my doors are locked and that the car isn't running.

Unfortunately, in the case of children being left in the car for extended periods, AND in the case of mothers being arrested for stepping 15 feet from their car, we're looking at a complete lack of common sense. I think most mothers know not to leave their kids in the car while they go get groceries. And I think most bystanders know not to freak out if I leave my baby in the car for the fifteen seconds it takes me to drop a letter into the mailbox at the post office. Unfortunately, it's the people with no common sense who ruin it for the rest of us.

?? - posted on 12/13/2009

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Aww here I thought you were tryna warm me up !!!



HA! HA! HA! Get it... insulate... we got off on the wrong foot... warm me up...

rofl I make me laugh :D

Crystal - posted on 12/13/2009

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Yeah Jo I meant that..lmao...sorry I sometimes miss a few letters..though I'm generally a pretty good speller!! Thanks for fixing that. :)

Keenan - posted on 12/12/2009

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Personally, I could never leave my child alone in a car. Unless, there was adult supervision by a close friend or family member tht was in the car while I ran an errand or something. Its not like leaving a child unattended in a room in the house while you entered another room to get something quickly. Its a car. Kids get abducted left and right now a days, not to mention kids trying to venture of own thier own out of curiosity. I just could never leave my son in a car alone..not even for two seconds.

[deleted account]

Oh my goodness ladies, I just saw the funniest bumper sticker and it made me think of this thread! Ready? tee hee hee...

"Guano Happens"

:P

?? - posted on 12/11/2009

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Do you mean insulting? I looked up "insultave" and it asked if I meant "insulate" and I don't think that's what you meant LOL

Crystal - posted on 12/11/2009

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Whether you are being sarcastic or not, Im not sure but Im not being mean or rude..im just saying things were said on both parts that were insultave and offensive, but we are all grown and need to let it go and respect each other's opinions. if that had been the case to begin with we would never have gotten to the place it did. thanks

~Jennifer - posted on 12/10/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

It's old news already so give it a rest. What's said is said, what's done is done, people are who they are and nothing can change it..so cry a river, build a bridge and get over it already.



nice attitude.

?? - posted on 12/09/2009

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*plays the worlds tiniest violin*



Hmm... it's outta tune... damn it... oh well.. shit happens.

Crystal - posted on 12/09/2009

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It's old news already so give it a rest. What's said is said, what's done is done, people are who they are and nothing can change it..so cry a river, build a bridge and get over it already.

Savannah - posted on 12/09/2009

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and now for- a random song interjection! La cucha racha la cucha racha!(sp) La da da da da da dah!
Everyone grab a maraca and boogie!
:)

Iris - posted on 12/08/2009

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Laura I too think there's a big difference between 60 sec. and 60 min. when it comes to leaving your baby in the car. Like many of you I leave my child in the car if I forget something in the house and I don't feel guilty about it or if I have to get to the post box witch is 15 feet from my driveway. I think where you live has a lot to do with how you work with situation every time
.

Esther - posted on 12/08/2009

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OK - clearly things got a little heated here and more personal than they need to be so I'm going to lock this thread for a bit to let all parties calm down. If anyone feels like posting again on this thread when it is reopened, please refrain from trading insults & using profanities (although, in my book "shit happens" does not qualify as profanity and since I'm the admin, that will continue to be allowed).

JL - posted on 12/08/2009

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I would just like to clear up the "In God We Trust" comment. The motto was not adopted or placed on American coinage when the nation became an official nation. In fact "In God We Trust" was not seen on any coinage until the Civil War when it was added to the 2 cent peice by the Federal Government under Lincoln's administration in hopes it would bring up the spirits of those fighting against the seceeded states and serve as a good luck charm of sorts.



The motto was not added onto paper money or adopted as the official motto until the 1950s. The notion that America was built soundly on some monolothic type of Christian principles is incorrect and as a professional historian of American history I assure you that our founding fathers did not agree or think along the same lines when it came to religion, so you pick and choose whom you would like to follow in order to sustain your arguement, because the reality is that most the Christian symbols and so forth (like the motto or the line in the pledge that says in One nation under God) that Americans like to identify as upholding the arguement are things that were not actually instituted until the postwar Era....1945 and on which was sometime after our nation became an official nation and they were instituted due to reactionary fears brought out by the Red Scare, the atomic bomb, the Cold War Era, and the violence over race relations.

[deleted account]

Quoting Erin:



Quoting Crystal:

Well vulgarity happens to be a violation of the circle of moms group including the DM. So it just shows your ignorance level that you cant seem to communicate without foul language. and you know I dont care if believing in God is offense to you..or anyone else for that matter..this country was built on a belief of God.."in god we trust". I dont need a
"trademark" and if you dont like the way christians and other americans express their faith in this country..then you are welcome to take your atheist behind elsewhere..no one is making you stay here and pollute this country with your poor attitude and dirty mouth. And if anyone needs the protection and help of the Lord IT IS YOU!!! so again I say GOD BLESS GOD BLESS AND GOD BLESS





Wow... do you tell all the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans etc to get out of your country too? That has got to be one of the rudest comments I've read on COMs in a long LONG time, and I've been around a while and seen some pretty screwed up stuff.






You keep saying you haven't been offensive in your posts, and then post this! I can assure you I find a bit of bad language far less offensive than this last post. It is a personal attack and will be reviewed by myself and the other moderators later today (since not all of us are American - oh the horror - and are on different time zones).



 






 






I'm not intending on quoting you here Erin. I just happen to find this post.



I know I said in my first post to "never ever leave your child unattended in your car"- I wasn't looking at the bigger picture. That being checking mail, unloading a car of shopping etc.



This is the reason why Christianity gets such a bad name- because people like you force it upon others " GOD BLESS GOD BLESS AND GOD BLESS" who are not Christians.

Erin - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

You can "moderate" all you want to because whether you live here or not..like it or not..appreciate it or not..we ALL have the right to free speech. and no I do not say things like that to anyone who doesnt insult me first..I personally dont care what religion, ethnicity, sex, or anything else someone is. It bears no impact on me and I have friends from all walks of life. I find great happiness in meeting people of a different culture and belief. and I also have been and observed many different religions in my strive to find the one that fits me most comfortably. I think they are all very similar to one another..it makes no bearing in my life who you worship or if you worship. I merely find it disgusting that you seem to have a double standard here on DM and COM. for the fact that she is allowed to use extreme profanity such as the Fbomb and calling me an "ignorant a**". how is that not a personal attack..oh but wait thats right you dont regulate equally do you..well do what you must..it affects my personal life about as much as rains in the sahara...that would be not at all..your opinions mean precisely...oh wait I better let miss potty mouth finish that...cause you wont delete her.


Rules for language are actually decided upon and regulated by the Admin and Moderators of individual groups. We have a more relaxed attitude here in DMs, so long as it is not name-calling or directing AT someone (and 'shit happen' fits neither criteria). Yes, Jo called you an ass,  and she shouldn't have, but it was in response to your hateful post. What you said to her was no different than someone telling you your Christian beliefs were bogus and nothing but a fairytale, and you should take your ridiculous, naive ideas elsewhere. I imagine you would respond pretty brutally if someone said that to you.

?? - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

You can "moderate" all you want to because whether you live here or not..like it or not..appreciate it or not..we ALL have the right to free speech. and no I do not say things like that to anyone who doesnt insult me first..I personally dont care what religion, ethnicity, sex, or anything else someone is. It bears no impact on me and I have friends from all walks of life. I find great happiness in meeting people of a different culture and belief. and I also have been and observed many different religions in my strive to find the one that fits me most comfortably. I think they are all very similar to one another..it makes no bearing in my life who you worship or if you worship. I merely find it disgusting that you seem to have a double standard here on DM and COM. for the fact that she is allowed to use extreme profanity such as the Fbomb and calling me an "ignorant a**". how is that not a personal attack..oh but wait thats right you dont regulate equally do you..well do what you must..it affects my personal life about as much as rains in the sahara...that would be not at all..your opinions mean precisely...oh wait I better let miss potty mouth finish that...cause you wont delete her.



Seriously Crystal... you must be reading the posts in whatever order suits you best because I never attacked you, I simply stated how your posts were coming off and how they can be seen as offensive. Then I said "shit happens" and you got your panties in a bunch about the vulgarity of the word "shit." I said if you're gonna get offended by the use of cuss words you should knock off the mannerisms you use that others can be offended by; God bless you, being the example I used. You chose to ignore that point (which seems to be a very bad habit of yours by the way). 

And then you flipped out and went all bat shit crazy because you assumed I said something I didn't or meant something just because you wanted to argue it.... either way, I called you an ignorant ass because the exact part of your post that Erin bolded for you is BEYOND IGNORANT, INCREDIBLY offensive and makes you look like a GINORMOUS ASS. That is no fault of anyone but yourself. You should REALLY consider taking some responsibility for your actions, you look like an even bigger ass when you try and blame someone else for your own bad behavior.

You are 100% right, we ALL have the right to freedom of speech and that includes my right to say SHIT HAPPENS. And if YOU are going to get offended by me saying SHIT HAPPENS and then try and pull a double standard because people get offended when YOU say something as insulting, offensive and rude as "if you dont like the way christians and other americans express their faith in this country..then you are welcome to take your atheist behind elsewhere..no one is making you stay here and pollute this country with your poor attitude and dirty mouth." -- which is 100% a personal attack at me -- YOU ARE OUT OF LINE. There's no way around that, I don't care what words or rights and freedoms you try to pull out of your ignorant ass, you are out of line.



And that's not even going into the whole idea that your "rights and freedom" speech really does mean "squat" to me - I'M NOT IN YOUR COUNTRY - I'm not an American. The whole INTERNATIONAL site concept, still beyond you I guess. So I won't 'take my atheist butt elsewhere' because it's already elsewhere!!!!!!! And you're STILL out of line!!!!!!!!!!

Crystal - posted on 12/07/2009

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You can "moderate" all you want to because whether you live here or not..like it or not..appreciate it or not..we ALL have the right to free speech. and no I do not say things like that to anyone who doesnt insult me first..I personally dont care what religion, ethnicity, sex, or anything else someone is. It bears no impact on me and I have friends from all walks of life. I find great happiness in meeting people of a different culture and belief. and I also have been and observed many different religions in my strive to find the one that fits me most comfortably. I think they are all very similar to one another..it makes no bearing in my life who you worship or if you worship. I merely find it disgusting that you seem to have a double standard here on DM and COM. for the fact that she is allowed to use extreme profanity such as the Fbomb and calling me an "ignorant a**". how is that not a personal attack..oh but wait thats right you dont regulate equally do you..well do what you must..it affects my personal life about as much as rains in the sahara...that would be not at all..your opinions mean precisely...oh wait I better let miss potty mouth finish that...cause you wont delete her.

Erin - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

Well vulgarity happens to be a violation of the circle of moms group including the DM. So it just shows your ignorance level that you cant seem to communicate without foul language. and you know I dont care if believing in God is offense to you..or anyone else for that matter..this country was built on a belief of God.."in god we trust". I dont need a
"trademark" and if you dont like the way christians and other americans express their faith in this country..then you are welcome to take your atheist behind elsewhere..no one is making you stay here and pollute this country with your poor attitude and dirty mouth. And if anyone needs the protection and help of the Lord IT IS YOU!!! so again I say GOD BLESS GOD BLESS AND GOD BLESS


Wow... do you tell all the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans etc to get out of your country too? That has got to be one of the rudest comments I've read on COMs in a long LONG time, and I've been around a while and seen some pretty screwed up stuff.



You keep saying you haven't been offensive in your posts, and then post this! I can assure you I find a bit of bad language far less offensive than this last post. It is a personal attack and will be reviewed by myself and the other moderators later today (since not all of us are American - oh the horror - and are on different time zones).



 

?? - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

Well vulgarity happens to be a violation of the circle of moms group including the DM. So it just shows your ignorance level that you cant seem to communicate without foul language. and you know I dont care if believing in God is offense to you..or anyone else for that matter..this country was built on a belief of God.."in god we trust". I dont need a "trademark" and if you dont like the way christians and other americans express their faith in this country..then you are welcome to take your atheist behind elsewhere..no one is making you stay here and pollute this country with your poor attitude and dirty mouth. And if anyone needs the protection and help of the Lord IT IS YOU!!! so again I say GOD BLESS GOD BLESS AND GOD BLESS




When you post bullshit like this... I have NO reason to be polite to you. You are the one who became hostile and you have the nerve to say it's ME being insulting. Leave already, you've said you're done posting here like 4 times already.... still waitin for you to stop posting.

Crystal - posted on 12/07/2009

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Whatever hon..Im far too busy to keep debating with you...and frankly your posts, opinions and thoughts mean absolutely squat to me..so whatever you are and wherever you are have a pleasant day and I sure hope for your sake you arent this hostile with everyone who crosses your path..its a shame that someone who seems so intelligent in the beginning could stoop to the level of insulting me..when I have already apologized to the Laura and anyone else that took my words wrong. Have a nice holiday season and enjoy your life.

?? - posted on 12/07/2009

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Holy shit chick... here read what I said again:



And to address the "vulgarity"... just as you find the saying "shit happens" as unnecessary, I find your "God bless" comment to be unnecessary. If you "don't really wanna hear your vulgarity anymore"... if THAT is going to be an issue for you... DM probably isn't the place for you. I'm not gonna stop saying shit, and I doubt you're gonna stop saying God bless you and all the other religious junk people say because you think you're being nice.




I said it's unnecessary, I never said it was offensive. And I said that if you're gonna get offended over 1 person using certain mannerisms (cussing, being blunt, not candy coating their thoughts, opinions, etc) but then not curb your own mannerisms that could be considered offensive to others (saying God bless you, imposing your faith on someone) you are a hypocrite.



I don't find it offensive when you say God bless you (the first time), I find it unnecessary. You find it offensive when I cuss. Cussing may be unnecessary but if you're going to get offended over cuss words, that's your issue.



And then to have an outburst such as you did that was INCREDIBLY offensive to anyone who is not Christian or American.............. yea the moderators can have a look at this because CUSSING is NOT against COM guidelines... but... your outburst there... well that can definitely be considered a personal attack, incredibly immature and childish.

Crystal - posted on 12/07/2009

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Absoutely Laura and I in no way meant to imply that one isnt a mother because they had to leave their child for a moment to run indoors and grab something they forgot...I think Traci has said it most tactfully and respectfully of anyone I have read thus far including myself..so thanks Traci for your assistance. and thanks Laura for maturely explaining to me what was so badly misinterpreted. I am not a perfect mother and have never said I was and I am not the least bit worried about "moderators" as I have not broken any rules at all. I was not the one who used a single word of vulgarity or attack on a person. Even to refer to someone who has clearly stated that saying God bless is offensive and implying that they are atheist is not as bad as cussing all this and calling someone ignorant. I would also like to say to Joy that I think that is perfectly reasonable and you sound like a very good mother..and very normal as to what we all do. I have never said I am 100% on top of my kids all the time..that would be impossible. and every mother knows part of being a mother is to allow your children some independence and room to grow. so thank you to the ladies that remained ladies. I appreciate all of your points of view.

?? - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

Well vulgarity happens to be a violation of the circle of moms group including the DM. So it just shows your ignorance level that you cant seem to communicate without foul language. and you know I dont care if believing in God is offense to you..or anyone else for that matter..this country was built on a belief of God.."in god we trust". I dont need a "trademark" and if you dont like the way christians and other americans express their faith in this country..then you are welcome to take your atheist behind elsewhere..no one is making you stay here and pollute this country with your poor attitude and dirty mouth. And if anyone needs the protection and help of the Lord IT IS YOU!!! so again I say GOD BLESS GOD BLESS AND GOD BLESS




The difference between you and me Crystal is that I really don't care what you say or how you say it, or who you say it too. My point was that just because someone says something, you only control your reaction to it and if you're gonna get butt hurt about someone using the word SHIT then DM is probably not the place for you.



I only control my reaction, and not your actions. You saying God bless... I ignore it, because I don't control what you say.......... I only control my reaction, and I choose to ignore those things. You don't even have the maturity level to do that. You choose to react negatively and be offended by something you have no control over...



Which you proved by your incredibly immature and offensive reply. I'm just gonna leave this for the mods and in case you decide to go ahead and delete it, I'll reply with quote so that they do see it.



PS: Obviously you're ignorant ass is too dense to realize that this is an international site... your American crap up there means FUCK all to me, since I'm not American. So my atheist behind is already elsewhere............... and Christians wonder where the initial hesitation comes from, Crystal is a shining example....

?? - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

and while I'd love to say that no I dont take them to the bathroom and that with me..anyone that has toddlers knows that majority of the time..yes they do follow me everywhere around the house




Quoting Crystal:

I am not ignoring anything and children are not toddlers born toddlers..they are born infants..so Im not sure what you mean by this "haven't been toddlers since they were born". My youngest IS a toddler and will be for at least another year..




The point is that your child hasn't been a toddler since they were born and I would bet that you would leave them to play randomly while you went out of sight. I would bet that even now, there's times when you're not in the same room with your toddler 100% of the time. There's just as much, if not a bigger chance of something happening to them while playing in your own livingroom than there is of something happening to them while sitting in the car for 10 seconds while you hop out real quick. There isn't much of a difference.







And to address the "vulgarity"... just as you find the saying "shit happens" as unnecessary, I find your "God bless" comment to be unnecessary. If you "don't really wanna hear your vulgarity anymore"... if THAT is going to be an issue for you... DM probably isn't the place for you. I'm not gonna stop saying shit, and I doubt you're gonna stop saying God bless you and all the other religious junk people say because you think you're being nice. The passive aggressive shit is boring, old and someone else already uses it as their 'trademark' way of posting (if you will), you're gonna have to come up with something new or just get over it.

Crystal - posted on 12/07/2009

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No I dont appreciate vulgar language..I find you can get your point across perfectly fine without it. I am not ignoring anything and children are not toddlers born toddlers..they are born infants..so Im not sure what you mean by this "haven't been toddlers since they were born". My youngest IS a toddler and will be for at least another year..as for the other situations I did not feel the need to address each indivually..I agreed that yes you have a point and things can and do happen wherever you go. The original posts and all that have followed have NOT been targeted at you, the group or anyone in particular..I merely stated that I didnt think it was ever okay. I havent been the only one on here to say that it isnt okay or that it is scary in some situations..I have never said I was superior to anyone and I do not believe that either. I am just a mom doing my best to raise my kids how I see fit..as Im sure you are as well. Maybe developing a hobby or looking into some creative crafts or something will give you something to do besides sit on here and yell at me for my opinon..I dont feel I have been rude or belittling and I havent directed any comments at anyone person in this group. I personally agree with Laura that being arrested for being 15 ft away seems a bit much..so anyways you dont need to respond with more profanity or yelling as I dont really want to hear your vulgarity anymore..God bless you and your family and I hope you have a blessed holiday!

JL - posted on 12/07/2009

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My mailbox is not in front of my house it is in a community area that services a neighborhood that consists of three different circles which is 2 miles from my house. Usually on my way home from picking up my daughter from school I stop to check the mail before going to the house. I park my SUV right in front of the mailboxes, turn it off and leave both my kids in while I walk 10 steps away from the car to check my mail.

Sometimes I will go out to leave and put my son in the SUV which is parked in the garage , open up the garage to leave, turn on the car and pull out into my driveway only to realize crap I forgot something. So I turn the car off ,lock the doors and leave my son inside the SUV while I run into the house to get what I forgot.

I don't feel any guilt what so friggin ever and I am posting on here not because I have a heavy heart or some absurd need to explain myself to someone whose opinion does not mean anything to me, No I am posting because I am sharing my opinion and my story with those who want to hear it whether they agree or not.

I also leave my kids downstairs alone, upstairs alone, and in their bedrooms alone when I am off doing other things in the house. I even close the door when I go to the bathroom so I can have some privacy. I let my kids run around in my fenced in backyard with the back door open so I can check on them but I will stay in the house folding laundry not outside with them the whole time while they are playing.

?? - posted on 12/07/2009

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Okay, so you don't appreciate the use of the saying "shit happens"....? Seriously? And you think anyone else is taking something 'too personally'? Really? lol



You can ignore the point by dismissing it as "toddlers follow me everywhere" but your children haven't been toddlers since they were born... and it doesn't explain any of the other situations.



Your 'opinion' has been presented in a belittling manner and people are responding to it with explanations and points to prove your opinion to be more than an opinion but rather an attempt to 'prove your superiority' by having that 'opinion.'



Perhaps if you present your 'opinion' in a less personal fashion next time, you won't feel the responses to be 'taken personally.'

Crystal - posted on 12/07/2009

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I do however think that being arrested for being 15 ft away from your car is absurd, and uneccessary..not to mention a waste of tax dollars and undue stress to both parent and child.

Crystal - posted on 12/07/2009

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That is true Jo things do happen everywhere..and while I'd love to say that no I dont take them to the bathroom and that with me..anyone that has toddlers knows that majority of the time..yes they do follow me everywhere around the house..I think some of you have taken my opinion way too personally...and need to just relax. Btw..profanity was not necessary to make your point here..and was not appreciated..thanks :)

?? - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

P.S. If it wasnt wrong to do it you wouldnt feel the need to hurry or feel the heaviness and worry in your heart when they are in the car without you..even when you can see them through the window or from the door etc. That's all I was trying to say!




LOL By that logic, you had better be telling us that you carry your child around with you TWENTY FOUR SEVEN! Do you ever go to the bathroom while your kid plays on the floor? Go into the kitchen to start the coffee pot while your kid stays in the other room? You don't wander around doddling, takin your sweet ass time with the laundry while lil Bobby is sittin on the floor playing with his blocks... do you ever turn away from the stroller to pay for your crap at the grocery store? Or grab a box of crackers off the top shelf? Have you ever turned your back to your child sitting in the grocery cart while you looked back in the aisle to see whether you missed the peanut butter or maybe it's up a lil further?



If you do ANY of those things, I am guessing you're on anti-depressants from your worry and the feeling of a heavy heart for leaving your poor child unattended while you hurried about your everyday life.



It doesn't matter where you are, in your house, in your car, in the grocery store - shit happens. And takin your sweet ass time about it makes shit more likely to happen. Tryin to get it done as quick as possible makes sure that window of opportunity, the chance that comes with life, is less likely to happen. It's called critical thinking, decision making, problem solving - making sure life goes by as smoothly as possible all while using some common sense and a lil bit of understanding of the circumstances.

Dana - posted on 12/07/2009

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I agree and I'd also like to point out, we all live in different places. I live on a private drive that's about 100 yrds long, at the most. Two other people live on my street. All around me it's vacation homes.

Jodi - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

P.S. If it wasnt wrong to do it you wouldnt feel the need to hurry or feel the heaviness and worry in your heart when they are in the car without you..even when you can see them through the window or from the door etc. That's all I was trying to say!



Do you really think we feel guilty and that's why we hurry?  Has it occurred to you that we hurry because we actually want to get it done quick.  When I have left something in the house and leave the kids in the car, I make the decision to leave them in the car because I believe they are safe, BUT I am in a hurry.  My time is very precious.  So I hurry...... 

Jodi - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Sara:

PEOPLE OVERREACT TO THINGS I WRITE ON HERE A LOT, I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY?!?!?! DO I COME OFF AS HOSTILE?!?!?!



Well Sara, that's because you are always SHOUTING, lol...... :)

Jodi - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

For the record I have done a little research..and I quoted as I understood the information. I was not trying to change anyone's mind..and I havent disrespected anyone or insulted anyone..it simple google it and you will see for yourself websites like this http://www.kidsandcars.org/bottom_statis... that are studies on kids and accidents with cars..not all by being left in the car but the point I was trying to make is that parents are untimately responsible for the well being of their children and accidents that occur due to lack of supervision..and NO I have never called the cops on anyone for leaving the kids in the car for "2 seconds" to grab an order or put something in the mail or pay for fuel...I didnt come on here to argue and be disrespected and belittled. So as everyone is entitled to their viewpoint so am I. PLease try to understand I am not totally insensitive to tough situations..as I said I have 4 all under 8 years of age. I know as well as all of you how hard that is especially when its freezing cold and that...so thanks for listening to me now and have a blessed week.



Crystal, you have to be VERY careful when reading statistics.  This is ONLY statistics on reported incidents, and reported incidents would ONLY be those which posed a significant threat to the child.  These statistics are not percentage of ALL incidents of children being left in cars by any means.  Not even close. 



I have heard of children left in cars in really hot weather, and it can only take a minute to kill them in that heat.  In an incident like that, I would also smash a window and call the police.  If a child is old enough to get out of their restraint, but still young enough to cause a lot of trouble by getting out of the car, running on the road, disabling the hand brake, putting the car in gear, that is dangerous.  No-one is saying you can just leave your kids in the car whenever.  There is not a single person here who believes it is always okay, or even okay MOST of the time, but there are occasions where it would be absolutely ridiculous to consider it bad parenting. 

?? - posted on 12/07/2009

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Quoting Crystal:

fyi debate purpose IS to try and convince a party that your outlook is the better or most suited one..do your research and you will see..better yet just ask your children's high school debate coach. Thanks and enjoy your group as I would rather swim with frenzied sharks than conversate here. Happy Holidays to all in any case!




Quoting Crystal:

again its a debate room and this was and is my opinion..never asked you to agree with it.




FYI the point of debating is to present your opinion backed up by facts / relevant information. You can't pick and choose depending on whether you're on the offense or defense.



The point of a debate is not to convince either side is "right" or "wrong" "better" or "worse" more believable or not - it is to present ideas, thoughts, opinions and facts.



And in particular here in DM - since this is not an official debating arena where there is a coach and either side is decided as presenting their side more accurately or in a more informed manner -- the point is to allow the discussion to evolve progressively, discussing and examining everything that is presented.



Hopefully in a respectful manner - that gets lost sometimes in the emotions. But either way, your posts have been less than productive and the accuracy is debatable itself.

Sara - posted on 12/07/2009

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PEOPLE OVERREACT TO THINGS I WRITE ON HERE A LOT, I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY?!?!?! DO I COME OFF AS HOSTILE?!?!?!

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