Limiting fluid intake before bedtime

Margaret - posted on 03/18/2012

When my children were young, limiting their fluid intake before bed did nothing but ensure that they would wake screaming with leg cramps...it didn't stop them from wetting their beds.



It has now been documented that leg cramps in both adults and children is caused by dehydration, a simple glass of water before bed is often all that is needed to prevent cramps. So no, I never advise anyone to limit liquids before bed, especially in hot climates.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/18/2012

Usually drink a big glass of water before bed every night. Idk, but I'm always thirsty as I go to bed so I drink a ton. Usually I make it til morning just fine

Jessica - posted on 03/18/2012

I do to a certain degree for now, not to prevent bedwetting- because K can wake up and go pee when she needs to- but to keep her from waking her grandma up when she gets up to pee. Thankfully our landlord has finally finished our third bedroom & we can move the kids into our old room & away from Grandma. I still think it's wise not to have a big drink right before bed though... Just because you sleep better if you don't have a belly full of water sloshing around.

Mary - posted on 03/15/2012

MeMe, you do bring one thing into perspective for me with regards to justifying why you needed to try both of this methods with your daughter: her emotional distress in response to bedwetting.



One of the things that frustrated my sister the most in dealing with this was the fact that my niece was truly unperturbed by it. The wet sheets didn't bother her - she would sleep right through it. Nor did she seem to have any feelings of shame or seem in any other way emotionally upset by it. By the age of 6, she would simply wake up, strip her bed, and bring her linens to the laundry room. She would, very matter-of-factly, tell her parents that they needed to be washed, and just go on about her day. (She did sleep in a pull-up, but on the nights she wet, she soaked right through it). She also just automatically rinsed off in the tub before coming downstairs with her laundry.



I do think she might have been more motivated to aggressively address this problem if the girl had seemed at all upset by it - but she really just wasn't. Luckily, this problem did seem to just gradually dissipate just as my niece hit the age of sleepovers.

Jodi - posted on 03/14/2012

You can often tell if it is an emotional thing if there has been regression. So if they are dry at night for a long while, and then all of a sudden they aren't any more, then it is possibly emotional. Not necessarily though! A growth spurt can cause a child to sleep more heavily too, so this can contribute. But those are the times to consult someone, when a child is wet again after being dry for a long time. It can also mean an underlying medical issue if that happens.

Jodi - posted on 03/14/2012

It is generally a physical thing. It is about the signal getting to the brain and waking them up, and this comes with physical maturity. A small percentage of kids will still struggle with this into puberty. My step-son has only been dry for about 6 months, and he will be 13 in a couple of months. Apparently the hormones during puberty can help kick it in if it hasn't done so earlier. If it doesn't kick in at puberty (like it didn't with my step son), there are now medications that can trigger it. But even with the medications, quite honestly, if they aren't ready, it probably won't happen.



It is also often genetic (not always). Basically, if your kids are not dry, look at the history of family members. My husband was a bedwetter until he was about 12, so it stands to reason that my step-son's bedwetting was genetic. They do say that the pattern will generally follow that of the parent or other family member. Knowing this can really help feel less frustration. It is more common in boys than in girls, not sure why.

Mother - posted on 03/14/2012

I'm heading to bed. Night Ladies. Sweet dreams

Mother - posted on 03/14/2012

You Ladies are a wealth of information!!! Thanks. Learn something new everyday.

Teresa - posted on 03/14/2012

Mostly physical. I do believe emotional CAN certainly play a part though. The girls were only wetting about once a week at 4.5. It decreased from there down to maybe once (or twice) a month by 6. At 6 they got a baby brother and their dad bailed, so... we had a slight increase in bed wetting around that time. NOT a big increase, but enough that I noticed it. The increase only lasted 6 or so months and then they decreased even more. The last wet bed was at 8.5 and it was 6+ months after the one before that. They DID also have daytime 'dampenings' til 8.5 as well....

Mother - posted on 03/14/2012

I never knew that. Is it emotional or physical. Sorry for the questions....I didn't bother reading the entire thread.

Jodi - posted on 03/14/2012

Kelly, about 20% of children are still bedwetting at about the age of 5. Not always every night, but once or twice a week. Yes, it is very common. Most outgrow it by 6 or 7. That's why they say not to worry about it before then, because it really is common enough that it is simply a developmental issue.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

I agree 100%. That's why my daughter was almost 7 by the time we tried anything, after taking her to the doctor first.



I was just saying that in those links they do not recommend the bedwetting alarm until after 6 but they do list waking them before the parent goes to bed, even when they are 3 and up.



Would I do it? Nope. I agree. It is a very normal occurrence amongst most children. I would invest in some over nighter pull ups. I will do so with my son as well if he is not fully developed under the age of 6.5. After that, if it is an every single night occurrence and it is reeking havoc on his poor little soul, I will try everything I can to help him.

Brittney - posted on 03/14/2012

Yes, 2 hours before bed. She never says she is thirsty.

Mother - posted on 03/14/2012

Is bed wetting that common?? I never knew it was.Especially at 6 and 7. I suppose I should count my lucky stars....we never had a problem.

Jodi - posted on 03/14/2012

See, I don't see the need for employing techniques for kids under the age of 6. Bedwetting is pretty normal at that age. My daughter still occasionally wet her bed until she was about 5, and it would never have occurred to me that this was a problem that needed intervention (including excluding liquids or waking her to pee). When my step son was that age, he wet every single night, we just put pull ups on him. It wasn't until he was older that we tried various techniques to help him (unsuccessfully I might add).

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Yes, I understand there are two. There is a basic alarm, which is the one I am referring to but there is also the bedwetting alarm which is in all the links I have provided, along with techniques of using a regular alarm and waking your child to pee after they are sleeping.



There are several methods. However, the bedwetting alarm is not advised for children under age 6. The other two techniques can be used for a younger age. Although, I wouldn't, since they are still too young to be trained in any way...

Jodi - posted on 03/14/2012

And "the bedwetting alarm" (the term you keep using) is traditionally the one I am talking about, not a standard alarm that wakes the child, but one linked to when they actually need to go. It's doesn't work for everyone either. But like anything, if you have a prolonged bedwetter, you try these things, and if they don't work, you move on.

Jodi - posted on 03/14/2012

Actually, one of the links you provided was referring to exactly the type of alarm I am talking about, so forgive me for perhaps being confused by what you meant.



I also never said it wasn't worth a shot - we've done it. What I am saying is that it is unlikely to make a difference if your child is simply not ready.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Every single site I go to for bed wetting training has the blurb that one technique is to wake them before you (the parent) goes to bed and get them to go pee. Or to use the bed wetting alarm if all else fails...



http://preschoolers.about.com/od/pottytr...



myhealth.alberta.ca/health/pages/conditions.aspx?hwid=hw211600&



http://www.babycenter.com/404_how-can-i-...



http://www.whattoexpect.com/toddler-slee...



http://www.uptodate.com/contents/patient...

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

but basically they all have the child wake up, usually to an alarm, like an alarm clock, earlier and earlier in the night, such as 3:00 AM to start with and then 1/2 hour earlier each night. Children sleep deepest in the first part of the night, so it is hardest to wake up then. The parent or friend must backup the alarm if the child fails to awaken themselves



No, you are speaking of a different alarm. Yes you can purchase those too. I am speaking of what I have posted for the 3rd time. It is a basic alarm that is set to wake the child.



I am in no way concluding that it is for everyone. It was, however, for my daughter. After a month or so she was waking herself and going pee without wetting the bed.



ETA: It is worth a shot if your child is beginning to dislike themselves just because of a wet bed... ;)

Jodi - posted on 03/14/2012

The difference between the alarm and the parent waking the child is that the alarm only goes off when it gets wet. So it has a totally different purpose. The alarm is trying to trigger the brain to wake at around the same time that the natural trigger should be going off (or goes off but the child doesn't recognise it because they are asleep). So it is pretty much replicating a bit of behavioural theory, by utilising Pavlov's experiment with his dogs. That the child's brain will eventually recognise the natural brain trigger as needing to go and pee, rather than the alarm, just simply by linking the two.



On the other hand, the parent isn't waking the child when that trigger goes off (or not necessarily so). So while it may be helping keep the child dry, it probably isn't what is training the child's brain to "listen" for the signal.



I am in no way denying that it might work for some, because I believe it does. But with children whose brains are simply not sufficiently matured to be dry at night, they just won't be, and no amount of withholding fluids, waking up to pee, etc, will make a difference. And as mothers of prolonged bedwetters, it is important to understand this or it becomes frustrating for all involved, to absolutely no avail. The fact is, some kids will wet their beds until they are fairly advanced in age, regardless of the tactics undertaken.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Mary, I completely understand. On the very 1st page here I said I would not recommend it for a child of 3 years of age (2nd post of mine on page 1). I did this when my child was 6 going on 7. The Dr Sear's was just to show that it is an approach that is accepted by medical professionals. I got the recommendation from my pediatrician, I couldn't quote her here... ;)



I agree, I would not use it on a child under age 5. They are still learning.



I have to say though, I do like Dr Sear's.



I did sit there with my daughter, while she pee'd. I do fail to see how it is brutal though. I mean it is no different than if they woke on their own to pee. Except I was there to help her....



It is OK, I don't expect anyone to agree that it will work for them. I only expect it to be understood it is a recommended approach by medical personel and that it did work wonders for me. I had to try it, she was becoming very sad because of her bed wetting. She was just at an age that it made her feel terrible. Maybe it had to do with her ADHD too, I dunno. I am just glad it worked and that she is happy now. ;)

Mary - posted on 03/14/2012

Meme, please understand that I truly am not trying to criticize your parenting choices or you. I also have to concede that although my daughter is only a bit over 3, I really have no personal experience with this issue. Within a a very short time span of potty training, girlfriend was waking us up (she was still in a crib then) by calling out in the dead of night when she had to go (and I was, in those groggy moments, wishing she would just pee in her pull-up like every other toddler, lol!).



That being said, I have to say that A) not a huge fan of Dr Sears and B) that "Dry Bed" method sounds a bit brutal to me particularly for the under 5ish age group.



My sister did have this problem with my niece, up until just before her 8th birthday. She did try limiting fluids - to no avail. She also tried waking her to pee. That didn't really work for them either. My niece, much like her father, is such a sound sleeper that rousing her was damned near impossible. She would stumble into the bathroom of her own accord, but if you didn't sit there with her, she literally would fall over and hit the floor. Every light upstairs on, my sister speaking loudly in her ear, shaking her, whatever - she really never fully woke when disrupted (she would, however, fully wake if she was sick or frightened - just not if it was a stimuli not of her own).



None of it ever worked, or solved the problem. She really just had to grow out of it on her own. Having talked to my sister about this, she felt that limiting fluids never affected the occurrences of bedwetting, only the volume. Same with trying to wake her.

Mother - posted on 03/14/2012

Well, I'm coming late to the conversation. Limiting fluid intake is not saying, you can't have anything. It is saying, I'll let you sip on fluids but not drink that entire liter of water. I'm a night time drinker. I take water to bed....so does my daughter, NOW. However, when we were training, we never had a problem. If there had been a problem I would limit fluids but not completely cut them out.

Teresa - posted on 03/14/2012

You originally said (then deleted), that waking them you would never do because their sleep is more important. However, it wasn't said that nicely.



Actually that's almost exactly what I said....



Anyway... enough w/ the back and forth. I apologize for saying anything to you, but I'm not going to delete anything this time so that you can't try and make it look worse than it really was. People can read for themselves that this time I was simply asking about the links.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Teresa , thank you for your understanding.



My repeated posts are in reflection of all yours. I was explaining that it is an acceptable method. Gracious. Why am I the one with an issue just because I am replying to your posts? It is obvious, since my posts are directly after someone elses... ;) Two of them were directly after each other because they were information to provide.



You originally said (then deleted), that waking them you would never do because their sleep is more important. However, it wasn't said that nicely.



Whatever, the fact is just because one person will do one thing does not mean the other has to too. It does however mean that the person that does do it, isn't necassarily doing anything unjust. It could mean (like in this instance) that the person saught medical help and followed through with the suggestions and they worked. In the end, pehaps the method I used will help the OP in hand.

Teresa - posted on 03/14/2012

Dude. I'm not badgering you for your decision. When you c&p stuff w/out providing a link (as in the second post) I just wanted to know where it came from. Which you provided. Thank you. End of story.



I said it wasn't an issue for US for me to need to wake them and that waking them would've been worse for US. And you're repeated posts on this page are exactly what I was referring to earlier...



Again, in case it wasn't clear. I am not badgering you for your decision. I asked for a link and you provided it. Those links you provided DO provide links for selling products and that, IMO, makes them suspicious.... which is all I was asking about. Sheesh.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

The information was not for selling something Teresa. I fail to see how waking your child up can be sold. Yes, perhaps an alarm but why the hell would anyone need to buy one of their alarms? They did not say within the information that you NEED one of their alarms.



Go read Dr. Sears. He recommends exactly what I DID DO. Wake them up yourself and walk to the washroom...



ETA:

It is an issue when your child cries and feels bad about themselves. As mine did. End of story.

Teresa - posted on 03/14/2012

Hey, I just said it wasn't something I would do. I don't care that you did. For me (and frequently my girls) waking in the night isn't as simple as a one minute pee break. I wake 2-5 times/night and am awake for 10 minutes to 2 hours each time because of it. When my girl do wake in the night... they are frequently awake for an hour or two as well. Again... I wouldn't do it, but I don't care that you did. Worked for you? Great.



I'm not saying you don't have a clue. Your ped recommended it, so fine. Our ped might've if it were an issue, but he doesn't consider it an issue until the kid is at least 8.

Teresa - posted on 03/14/2012

http://wetbuster.com/alarms.htm



http://shopping.news72.com/search/landin...



Nope... not selling anything at all....

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Oh, here yo go.. Dr Sears. Wow, it seems to me this is actually a proven method, an accepted method and a recommended method. ;)



Step 5: Do the shake and wake Since most children wet their bed within a few hours of falling asleep, a perfect time for a second bladder- emptying session is just before you retire. Awaken your child completely. Your child must be awake enough to walk to the bathroom with assistance in order to be awake enough to sense what's going on in his bladder. Carrying a sleeping child to the bathroom isn't going to accomplish a complete bladder-emptying. As you approach the bathroom, let him splash water on his face or use a cool wash cloth to wake himself up and then go through the "grunt three times to push the pee out" bladder-emptying drill. If your child still wets his bed despite waking him up, do the timed nightwaking technique. The next few nights set the alarm and wake him up two to three hours later. Gradually adjust the timing of the nightwaking as the number of dry night's increase. Once your child has a few dry nights, he will become motivated to better cooperate with these drills. Some parents in our practice achieved less disturbed sleep if they taught their seven-year-old to awaken and respond to their own alarm clocks rather than the parents taking the responsibility for waking the child.



http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/sleep-p...

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

http://www.wetbuster.com/Bkids_school.ht...



So, there are two I have given. I will find more for you. It is very humorous to think that I have no clue. Like I said, I spoke with our pediatricianist.



I don't see them selling anything on either site....

Teresa - posted on 03/14/2012

The quotes from the first site looks like it's from some type of advertisement page.... Where did your second set of info come from... another advertisement or a medical site?

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

but basically they all have the child wake up, usually to an alarm, like an alarm clock, earlier and earlier in the night, such as 3:00 AM to start with and then 1/2 hour earlier each night. Children sleep deepest in the first part of the night, so it is hardest to wake up then. The parent or friend must backup the alarm if the child fails to awaken themselves.



They have to tolerate the awful feeling of pulling themselves awake when they are really groggy. And somebody has to commit to help them, either a parent or good friend. It is called the "Dry Bed" wake up training procedure.



I think this says to wake them? That's what it says to me...



It is not to develop their bladders. It is to develop that part of their brain that tells them their bladder is full and it is time to wake up and go to the washroom.... ;)



I just didn't use an alarm because 1) my kid would not wake to an alarm. 2) My kid was deathly afraid of the dark and still is. 3) I wanted to be there to help her, so she didn't bang into a wall or hurt herself.



I also spoke with her doctor, a pediatrician. I will take their advice first before anyone elses. ;)

Sherri - posted on 03/14/2012

You can defend your choice Meme and I also don't think you did anything horrible. You did what you thought was best for your child as we all do.



However, I am really knowledgeable on this topic as well as potty training as I have worked with toddlers and kids for the last 20yrs.



I am really just giving you the latest and most up to date information on the topic. You do what you want, I was just informing you is all.

Sherri - posted on 03/14/2012

Well you kind of proved my point no where does it say wake your child to go to the bathroom as it is proven that it really will not develop their bladders any faster and it simply just gives them broken sleep, which is far worse then a possible wet pull up.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Even very deep sleepers can learn to wake up when their bladder is full. It is training to wake up just like exhausted soldiers train themselves to wake up in war trenches when they are attacked, or doctors train themselves to answer an emergency phone call in the middle of the night. But this can be quite hard to do for kids who are really deep sleepers. It takes real commitment and determination to accomplish this training. It is like to getting into shape for a sport. They have to tolerate the awful feeling of pulling themselves awake when they are really groggy. And somebody has to commit to help them, either a parent or good friend. It is called the "Dry Bed" wake up training procedure.



There are several ways recommended to do this training, but basically they all have the child wake up, usually to an alarm, like an alarm clock, earlier and earlier in the night, such as 3:00 AM to start with and then 1/2 hour earlier each night. Children sleep deepest in the first part of the night, so it is hardest to wake up then. The parent or friend must backup the alarm if the child fails to awaken themselves. Ask your doctor for a specific method to follow. A small reward for waking within a certain amount of time (e.g. 20 seconds), along with taking back part of a previous reward if they don't wake, often helps. Once the child can wake up to the alarm, then the next night they must wake up themselves, without the alarm, at a specific time, like 1:00 or 3:00 AM. It is really important for the child to close their eyes and say to themselves each night just before going to sleep, that "I will wake up at 2:00 AM, for example, or when the alarm goes off!" and really picture themselves doing this. Putting a sign, "I WILL WAKE UP!!" at the end of their bed often helps.



Sorry but what I did is not a poor choice... I had to defend my technique. Since I do not do anything that will cause negative effect to my children.... I do my very best and try my absolute hardest.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

How to diminish the negative effects of bed wetting



While this problem is natural for small children, parents can still take a few steps and reduce the negative effects associated to it. Parents can start by investing some time in preventing the problem from taking place. As part of the most commonly used bed wetting solutions, parents can control the levels of liquid their child drinks in the evening and before going to sleep. Diuretic drinks are those that fall in the following categories: caffeine containing, carbonated and acidic. Stopping your child from consuming them at night is an excellent bed wetting solution. It also helps if the parent trains the child to go to the toilet right before going to sleep. It is important that a pattern is developed in this case and the child will learn to urinate at a specific hour in the evening. This method, combined with low liquid quantities consumed in the evening, has some of the best results in reducing bed wetting at night.



Quick tips for parents to stop kids bed wetting

◦No drinks close to bedtime with caffeine and carbonation.

◦Have your child go to the bathroom every night before bed. EVERY night. Make it a habit.

◦Encourage the child to get up at night and go to the bathroom alone if they have to. Make sure the path from the bed to the bathroom is well lit and clutter free.



http://www.kensavage.com/archives/popula...



I do not see it any different that I helped her, rather than her going alone...

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Hmmm, odd, it was suggested by her doctor... All I can say is it worked. It worked like a charm. I thank her doctor for the helpful info. I would do it again, if needed. However, I am also very stern with my kids sleep. At age 6, she was going to bed at 7pm... So, a minute of lost sleep was not going to hurt her any....



ETA:

She did not sleep over at her friend's house until she stopped wetting the bed. She felt too scared and embarrassed to do so...

Sherri - posted on 03/14/2012

I will also say Meme it is strongly recommended not to wake a sleeping child to do this as all it does is given them broken sleep. It doesn't actually make them night trained any faster. It also is not going to help at a friends house as their parents are not going to do this.



Also I my best friends son is 7 1/2 still wets the bed as his bladder simply is not mature enough. My other best friends son was 9 before he stopped wetting the bed. It is very common and quite normal that is why they have night time pull ups for older kids.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/14/2012

Gotcha.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Oh, I did limit it. She got a sip or two after brushing her teeth. I tried it all. I actually did eliminate it for about 2 weeks, it did not help. She is still limited before bed. She hasn't gotten a full drink an hour or so before bed since she was 6. Just a quick few sips.



I was just saying what did end up working for me in the end. ;)



ETA:

She slept with a plastic cover on her bed until age 8. She still had a slip up here and there but very rarely. Her having severe ADHD didn't help. I have to be very dedicated in everything I do with her.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/14/2012

I will say MeMe, that takes quite a lot of dedication on your part to do that every single night for god knows how long. But limiting water past a certain time at night may truly have helped.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/14/2012

Thanks Teresa. Love you girl!

Teresa - posted on 03/14/2012

Sorry Marina. Deleted all my 'rude' responses. Not worth it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/14/2012

SMH. Ladies, back on topic shall we? Please stop the back and forth. It can ruin the thread for everyone, especially when it gets locked down.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/14/2012

Teresa sleep is more important but so is their self dignity. When they are reaching 7 years old and are still wetting the bed every single night, then come and tell me you would never do that to a child.



I was training her brain to wake her up when she had a full bladder. It was not doing it for her. It is no different than if her brain was telling her, her bladder was full and then her waking on her own to go. I fail to see how it is a mean thing to do.



ETA:

Perhaps it makes you constantly fatigued but I would think there is another reason for that, then just getting up to go pee. I know I wake to pee. I am not more tired the next day becuase I had to get up for a minute in the middle of sleeping....

Teresa - posted on 03/14/2012

I tried to limit myself. The only thing it accomplished was when I DID still wake to pee... I didn't have to pee as much, so it disturbed my sleep even more. Seriously, constant fatigue = no fun!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/14/2012

Oh, and in all fairness, I limit my self past 9 pm. If I drink anything past 9, I am up 2-3 times per night to pee. No thanks. Quite frankly, when I have to get up that much, I am totally annoyed at myself. I do not keep a cup of water by my own bed.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/14/2012

MeMe, that is not a necessary thing to do for my son. he does not have a regular bed wetting problem. Since he has become over night trained, he has had maybe 1-2 accidents per year. And EVERY time he has had an accident, is when he drank to much at night RIGHT before bedtime.