Military pay freeze for 3 years starting in 2011..

C. - posted on 12/07/2010 ( 170 moms have responded )

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Ok, so a friend of mine posted something about how people keep complaining that Obama wants to freeze military pay for three years and continued to say that they should stop complaining and that military members are not any more special than the rest of us (even though they risk their lives on the daily..) And she's the fiancee of a soldier (but she is from the UK, so maybe she doesn't understand all the things we really have to pay for b/c she's not the one that gets the bills?)

Freezing military pay would include:
Less housing allowance and less retirement pay.. And if I remember correctly, cutting down on the 'tax-free' things (like Commissaries and BX/PXs- Even though we already have to pay a surcharge for shopping there- at least we do here in Hawaii, so it's not really 'tax-free', we just pay a LITTLE less).
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/11/mi...

Also, we have to pay a yearly rate for TRICARE (less than other insurance, I suppose, but it certainly isn't free contrary to popular belief) and have to pay co-pays if you go off-base/post, which isn't always cheap. We get housing allowance (where you are stationed depends on how much you get- like in Hawaii you get more b/c the cost of living is so high.) And next year we are going to have to pay for all the extra water and electricity we have to use (they give us x-amount and have the houses on meters and if we go over each month, we have to pay-- Which I don't have a problem with b/c there are so many families that overuse and leave lights on when nobody is in the room, A/C on when it doesn't need to be, leave the water running when no one is using it.. And it costs housing a butt-load.) But again, contrary to popular belief, we do not get a 'free ride'. Things still come out of our pay.

My thing is, our military is going overseas to protect our country.. Why shouldn't we (military families and single soldiers alike) get certain compensation for it?

There are so many other ways they could cut costs that don't include taking away from the families that risk their lives everyday (even when they aren't deployed, their jobs are still dangerous).

For one thing, there are SO MANY families on Welfare, Food Stamps and Medicaid that DON'T NEED TO BE. IE: They're lying in the application process saying they can't work, but yet have at least 1 or 2 jobs just b/c they want the extra benefits and are greedy for money (and YES, there really are people that work the system like that!!!) It sickens me. AND publicity stunts that cost our government more than $300k.. Whose money went towards that?? The taxpayer's! That money could have gone toward some of our debt instead!

Anyway, I'll write more later. It's almost 0230 and I still need to shower and get to bed.

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La - posted on 12/07/2010

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As far as the military deserving pay increases because they "fight for and are defending our country": I personally feel that teachers, nurses, firefighters, and police officers do more to shape, build, and defend this country than any job in the military does. Teachers are directly shaping the youth of our country- nurses care for and come into contact with things most people find appauling AND sometimes risk their own health doing so- firefighters arguably risk their lives more regularly than anyone in the military- police officers are pretty much in direct combat with the criminals they encounter here. If anyone deserves a pay raise it is THESE people.

Amanda - posted on 12/07/2010

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Christina- I WAS military (i've been both enlisted and officer).... and the benefits are GREAT compared to benefits through a civillian employer (don't know many civillian employers that cover housing) ! if you are referred off base to a specialist your TRICARE does cover it, if you are just deciding to go on your own without a referral than yeah, you pay out of pocket....
in this economy people (civillians) are losing thier jobs left an right, your hubby is not in danger of that so be greatful for that rather than complaining about the possibility of no pay raise for 3 years, (that's why it's not a big deal)
as far as promotions go...sleeping with an NCO doesn't get you promoted contrary to popular belief. promotions are based on a point system.... college courses, various military classes (example: UMO, HAZMAT etc), APFT score, weapons qualification, and Promotion board all add up to points, with a certain number of points a Soldier becomes promotable. I had a Soldier who made his E-5 in under 3 years, he did everything he needed to do to get points for his promotion (he didn't sleep with anyone) on the other hand i had a female Soldier who did sleep with every tom, dick and harry and she couldn't pass a PT test, barely qualified with her weapon, and did shitty on her board.... took her 4 years to make E-4.

Rosie - posted on 12/07/2010

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i've got an idea, why not STOP THE FUCKING WAR and we'd all be happy!! ;)

Amanda - posted on 12/07/2010

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seriously Christina, no one is TAKING money, just preventing a tiny annual raise (well actually, as it has already been pointed out, it doesn't even look like that is happening!) and if you are so friggin' unhappy with the military life and "lack" of benefits then step out and try the civilian world.... what exactly do you think your hubby would be making in the real world?
and as mary has pointed out, not every military member is "risking thier lives" at this very moment, when deployed then yes they are.... and since when are crazies coming over targeting just military members????
oh and one more thing, IEDs.... on the FOB (Forward Operating Base) really?! do you know what an IED is? if you are a desk jockey (and yes "desk jockeys" are useful and important i'm not denying that) then your biggest danger is not IED it's mortars and random gunfire..... but trust me honey IEDs are RARELY, RARELY, RARELY found on the FOB.....
BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) it's really ignorant to be running around thinking you have it harder then the rest of america.... while i respect military members and the tasks they perform, it's thier choice to be in the military, they don't deserve special treatment and extra pay

Sharon - posted on 12/08/2010

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A pay freeze doesn't hurt my feelings.

http://www.navycs.com/2010-military-pay-...

There used to be an old military saw about "privates cannot marry, sergeants may marry, officers must marry". There is truth in that and maybe you & your hubby should have thought of that before squirting out a kid.

yeah welfare fraud pisses me the fuck off. So do housewives who whinge about not having enough money but won't go get a job.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

170 Comments

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Erin - posted on 12/09/2010

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**Mod Alert**
I am closing this thread. A warning was posted yesterday about things getting too personal, and it has continued today.
Those of you enjoying your chat about property prices and cost of living.. sorry :( Start another thread?

Erin - DM Mod

Barb - posted on 12/09/2010

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@ Christina:
see you got the message from my last post to you.. Well done.

Yes darling, i got the message that you are too immature for an adult conversation and i needed to lower the questions down to your level.

Apparently since you still didn't understand my question, i need to break it down a little more.

You said your brother has Bipolar disorder, is a diabetic and suffers from depression. He requires medications for these disabilities. If he hasn't already he can file for Social Security disability from the U.S. Government. Your husbands employer is the U.S. Government.
Say they only have enough to pay his social security check or to give your husband a raise.

Which would you rather they do? Could you be happy with what your husband makes now, for only the next 3 years, so that your brother could have social security and medicine?

Isobel - posted on 12/09/2010

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Christina, you started it when you put her name all in caps and you know it...now you're just letting it escalate. Cool your jets...it's all in good fun remember?

[deleted account]

Yeah i could totally live there to Kati, Although i do like to have different seasons and i love the cold.
Hehehehe but this has been more fun than the original debate!

Stifler's - posted on 12/09/2010

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@ tah an aged care worker is like a low grade nurse lol. we study for a year at TAFE (community college is the same thing in the states I think?) and learn like basic nursing skills, bedside manner, taking obs, personal hygiene, learn about body systems (very basic) and respecting religions and care of the body after death etc. because you most likely will work at a nursing home but some get jobs at the hospital doing showers and changing beds and stuff. Houses here are about $350 000 for a shit box house that needs renovating.

Rosie - posted on 12/09/2010

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yes, we had our first snow fall last week. it gets super cold here. last year we had about a weeks worth of 30 degrees below zero, with windchills making it like almost 50 below. it's fucking ridiculous!!! i love our summers and springs, and even most of fall, but damn winters are harsh here. we don't get as much snow as parts of new york, other states that are by the great lakes, or ocean, but i think it gets colder here than it is there.

Rosie - posted on 12/09/2010

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holy shit, a half million??? if i could take the people of iowa, and the cost of living and just move the ocean here, and get rid of winter, i think i would be a happy girl, lol!

[deleted account]

Expensive but nice!

I searched through Kati's link and OMG i wish we could buy houses like that around here for 80K.

LOL we are after a new start, didn't realise it was going to be overseas!

Erin - posted on 12/09/2010

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Holy shit on a stick Kati! That house would be atleast 700k in my city, and more in Sydney or Melbourne.

[deleted account]

You don't see ANY correlation? None at all??? Keep increasing government spending and they're going to have to cut it from somewhere... kinda like the Part D insurance out here!!! But I'm sure upping $ in other departments that don't come from anywhere else? The endless pockets of the American citizens who continually get pay cuts, lay offs, and dropped off of unemployment, but hey atleast YOU got your raise! *rolln eyes* But hey, keep ignoring me cuz I'll just go away...kinda the same attitude the government has with the poor huh?

Rosie - posted on 12/09/2010

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yeah, it totally depends on where you live. my house was 89, 000, but it's also a 110 years old, and needed a new furnace, airconditioner, and the basement is original to the house. it's limestone bricks just plopped on top of each other. we had to buy alot of things, and do a bit to it to make it better. but still, not $300k. :) heres a 300,000 house around me. http://iowarealty.com/cedarrapids/buying...

C. - posted on 12/09/2010

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@Barb:

"With that in mind, please answer this question, would you be willing to live with the rate of pay you have now so that your brother could have the medicine he needs?"

I see you got the message from my last post to you.. Well done.

Now, the money my husband makes has absolutely nothing to do with the medication my brother needs, the cost of it, or if he'd be able to get it in the future.

Dana - posted on 12/09/2010

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It's amazing what houses cost depending on where you live. Where I live you can buy a 2-3 bedroom for $89k, where my BIL lives (Maryland) the same house would go for over 300k.

Erin - posted on 12/09/2010

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You can buy houses for 89 grand? :-o Stay where you are Kati lol. Even the most average 3br house is $300,000 here. My brother just bought a partially renovated 2br house in the suburbs of our city for 306k :-/

Rosie - posted on 12/09/2010

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yeah iris, i went to hawaii a little over a year ago and about crapped when i saw the prices of things. i have no clue how much people get paid there, but i figured that it couldn't be much.
afterwards i looked at realestate just to torture myself, and it was outrageous!! a decent house comparable to my $89,000 house here in iowa, in kauai was around $500,000. i thought i found a steal once, it was $165,000, 5 bedroom, 3 bath house. i went to look at pictures and it was just the shell of the house, lol. no walls, or floor or anything, just studs. i can't imagine the cost of shipping things there, so the costs at homedepot must be crazy high. i honestly don't know how people do it there.

Dana - posted on 12/09/2010

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I agree, Kati, and anyone in their right mind would get a degree right out of high school or you can plan on living with your parents or roommates for eternity.

Barb - posted on 12/09/2010

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Kati, me Australia too!! I've always wanted to go there! You Aussies just keep making it sound sweeter and sweeter dang it!

I could learn to speak Australian! It's almost like U.S. American.

Barb - posted on 12/09/2010

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Quite frankly, the debate from the OP is done. According to the information that has been posted in this thread to counter the OP this was merely a proposal that never even left the white house. As a matter of fact, according to another link that was posted, the military actually got a RAISE in 2010 at a time when the rest of the country was dealing with record layoffs, unemployment rates and the government was actually passing, not just proposing, legislation that cut funding for those who need it most, children and the mentally disabled.

The amount of money the government has is not endless. They shouldn't pay out more than they take in. So, tough, hard cuts end up being made. With that in mind, please answer this question, would you be willing to live with the rate of pay you have now so that your brother could have the medicine he needs?

Iris - posted on 12/09/2010

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It's the same here (HI) Kati. A daughter of a friend is working at a store here on base while she's going to school. She is making $7-8 an hour. Not even close to enough for her to be able to live on her own.

Rosie - posted on 12/09/2010

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i keep on telling my hubby we need to move to australia. i can't convince him. i think some of you need to get telling him about all the awesomeness there.lol!

Rosie - posted on 12/09/2010

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i have a friend who moved to california for a few years, and he couldn't make it out there. he made $10 an hour at home depot. and his apartment rent was outrageous, but anyhoo, it was totally off there. it almost seems like places like new york and california you have to have a degree or else you are screwed.

Amie - posted on 12/09/2010

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It's only being talked about Donna, as of this moment.

However, if it's a choice between not getting a raise for 3 years or possibly not having your job? Of course people (most people) would gladly take the pay rate freeze. For the military, I do think for something like this it needs to be discussed a lot further. They are using government funds to pay them, which equals tax payers money in the end. Do the tax payers want to end up more in debt because of this? Why should the military get a free pass during the hard times? Why should private citizens have to foot the bill (again which is what it comes down to) for them to get a pay increase? When to get their defense budget under control, all it would take is a 3 year pay freeze? (disclaimer: I do not know if it would only take this to get the defense budget under control, I doubt it but I threw it out there as a what if)

I'm sure there are other options they could look at. War's are expensive but what are they going to do on that front? Not provide their armed forces with the proper materials to keep themselves safe in the field?

I just don't see the big deal.

As for the minimum wage argument. Ours (Canada) starts around $8 and goes up to over $10 in some places. Cost of living depicts what it is in any given province. In certain places it is not enough either but then again we also have social programs to help with that. (free healthcare, cheap drugs, child tax benefit, child tax credit, housing supplements, etc.) Our cost of living is similar to the states. The major difference is that the states, as far as I am aware and have been able to find out, does not have a labour board that manages things like minimum wage and employment standards. They (states) have waitresses that work for as little as $2 an hour. =/ That's unheard of here, it's not acceptable. I'm sure it is in other countries as well.

For something going on in my area. I'm unimpressed with our conservatives, they've taken away the rights of our school boards to set their own mill rates. They said they would foot the bill themselves. So instead of us paying extra property taxes to cover school costs, the government is supposed to be. Well they're not, they've decided to start cutting jobs since they do not have the money to cover the funding. I'm sure the EA's and other support staff who are getting cut this year, would have gladly taken a pay freeze for 3 years to ensure they still have their jobs. Is the military in the states instead supposed to start cutting out positions where it can? It's a double edged sword, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Someone is always going to be upset about the consequences.

C. - posted on 12/09/2010

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Dana, I was agreeing with you. Just clarifying that some places do have a higher cost of living. But I did agree with your statement..

[deleted account]

I'm w/Barb...you keep taking up crap from my posts other then ppl on social security getting pay freezes and minimum wage freeze...still waiting for a comment about that!

[deleted account]

Emma is actually correct. Min wage in Australia is about $15-17/hr. We also have free healthcare, family benefits (amount depends on your household income and similar to Welfare, but all families get it) and child care benefit (which gov pays a portion of your child care costs up to 50%, although I know a few military families who get more like 90%). We also get a baby bonus (tax free money for having a baby, which is around $5000) but if you'd rather have paid maternity leave, you can choose that. AND, if you have multiples you can have a health nurse come help you on a day to day basis. The more babies a woman has, the more days the nurse will come per week. So someone like Octomum would have had health nurses helping her out on the tax payer's dime if she lived here.

As for cost of living, it varies depending on where you live. Perth, Sydney and Melbourne are really expensive compared to Brisbane, but the mining towns are even MORE costly, because the workers get paid WAY more money. I have a friend who was working in Mackay and paying $1000/wk rent for a small 2 bedroom house. An average rent for a 3 bedroom house in Brisbane has risen steeply over the last few years and would be around $450/wk. Overall, things are cheaper in the US compared to here, especially alcohol and cigarettes, because we have such high excise taxes on those items.

This higher min wage actually creates a different problem here. Lack of customer service. I used to be able to eat at a restaurant in LA in under an hour, but here that same meal would take over an hour because no one is in a hurry. You may not need to tip here, but you really pay for it in the kind of service you get sometimes.

I don't think it's right for anyone to have a wage freeze. It's just not right, regardless of the job. Most companies do give annual increases to try to keep in line with the CPI and if the wages are frozen, those workers would fall well below that mark. Is this something that is definitely going to happen, or is just being talked about?

Dana - posted on 12/09/2010

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Yes, your cost of living is higher in Hawaii than other places. Same with California where a bag boy at a grocery store makes $19 an hour compared to bag boys making $7 an hour where I live. Pay adjusts to the cost of living where ever you are.

Tah - posted on 12/09/2010

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a week...geez lady what the heck..no wonder they pay so much....see you say you are a aged care worker..is that like a CNA..or med tech or what..cause go to school for a year, and the CNA's here go for 2 weeks- 6 months and that's probably why i had a patient with an O2 sat of 78% and she didn't think to tell me, thank goodness i do my charting early in the night Houston we may have had a problem....so what does a aged care worker in australia do?...

Stifler's - posted on 12/09/2010

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I live in a mining town lol they want $600 a week for some shite unit.

Tah - posted on 12/09/2010

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@emma..exactly...because the rent is outrageous..i could barely turn around in a 1400 dollar a month apartment....I was approved for a loan to buy a house but all the houses were little more than garages and when we were adding my husband on we realized we didn't know if we would be here in virginia for more than 2 years and were looking at going to germany and a couple other places, so it made more sense to hold out on buying..if we are going to give that much for a 3 bedroom apartment, we may as well give his full BAH and live on base in a 4 bedroom 3 bathroom 2000 sq ft house with all our utilities paid out of that....i know we are blessed to have that opportunity because if i was making 7.50 an hour or he was we would be up craps creek right now and probably on a plane to australia..Good day mate...(did i say that right)..lol....when i was 12, i made 75 a week, 14-15...60 a week tutoring kids...16-19 between 5.50-7.00 and thats because i had more than one job, a son, an apt and a car and i thought i was doing great with 7 because minimum was 5.50..i went to school for medical assistant and started out around 8.00..then i found a doctor that realized people eat outside of the drug reps bringing olive garden on a wednesday so he paid me 15.00...and i still figured i needed more so i went back to school...now i'm back...cause everything is going up everytime you blink, yet..the money isn't doing the same for anybody really...

Stifler's - posted on 12/09/2010

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I think stuff here is more expensive from what I've heard from people that have been to the USA. Someone just told me that you can buy 18 packs of beer for $9.99.

C. - posted on 12/09/2010

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Cost of living really just depends on where you live in the US. Hawaii's is very high.. And I know one of hubby's NCOs was talking about a couple places on the Mainland where the cost of living is fairly high (but not as high as out here..) Just depends.

Dana - posted on 12/09/2010

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Our cost of living isn't as high, I would imagine. Most people who work a minimum wage job are young adults living at home or have room mates, etc...

C. - posted on 12/09/2010

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Uh.. Yeah, hun, they are.. But the US does help in other ways. That's why there are things like Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps and WIC for the people that really need it (and yes, some that abuse the system b/c they're greedy..)



AND that's why they continue raising the minimum wage amount..

C. - posted on 12/09/2010

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Must be nice, Emma.. That's not what it is here, that's for sure. It goes by hourly, not weekly. And last I checked they had only raised it to $7 something an hour.. You are lucky to have made that much, IMO. (Let's just put it this way.. When I started working, I was lucky if I got $200/week..)

Stifler's - posted on 12/09/2010

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It is minimum wage though. Minimum wage here is $500 a week or something and I made less than that working 6 days a week.

C. - posted on 12/09/2010

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"Meanwhile checkout chicks at Aldi make $28"



Well shit! I sure picked the wrong store to work at when I was 16! That's when I was making TRUE minimum wage (started out at $5.45/hour..) Now, THAT is min. wage.

Tah - posted on 12/09/2010

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@Emma....HAHAHAH!!!!..that's so cute you think that is minimum wage..lol..the cna's i work with would pack up and move to where you are to get that....

seriously....



Now(looks around to see if coast is clear)......I got a raise yesterday...(backs out slowly, then turns and runs..yelling...IT WAS BARELY A DOLLAR!!!DANG RECESSION)..lol...

Stifler's - posted on 12/09/2010

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I had to study for a year to get that job. The $14.49 was when I was 17. I made $8 an hour at eastern pearl chinese the year before that so I thought I was rolling in it at $14.49 an hour! Meanwhile checkout chicks at Aldi make $28 an hour for sitting down scanning groceries and not packing my bags. My dad makes $24 an hour as an RN after studying for 4 years. Annoying! My husband also has no qualifications and pays what I got paid a year in tax at work. It shits ya! Sorry, off topic lol

C. - posted on 12/09/2010

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@BARB:



"oh, sorry, that would be a JOB wouldn't it? "



*Slaps knee* HAHAHAHA!!!! *eye roll* Funny.. I've worked before, thank you. I know what it's like to struggle.



"Let me guess, you don't read posts that actually dissolve, take care of, or end your complaint/problem or question, do you? You just don't address those issues because then you wouldn't have anything left to bitch about."



No, more like I was exhausted and didn't feel like reading them at the time. I was going to until you started being rude for no reason, so I just decided to skip them b/c it became quite apparent that nothing you could say could help answer any of my questions. Maybe try a more productive tactic? Born in '71, I'd think that'd be a little easier than to pick on someone almost 20 years younger..

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