Miscarriage punishable by death?

Cyndel - posted on 02/27/2011

This is maddening!!! It is pro-lifers like this that give the rest of us a bad name!!!
It is completely against our legal system! Innocent until proven guilty people!!!!!
A better way (if you have to try to put this bill or another similar through) would have been if you could prove that a miscarriage was forced by the mother or someone else then that could be a criminal offense. But women who have miscarriages are already going through enough trauma without a murder investigation conducted against them on top of it!
And people who through actions of criminal negligence, violence, such as domestic abuse, and drunk driving, are charged with murder or manslaughter etc, if a fetus is killed or injured through their actions.
Anyway this guy is an dangerous fool.

Angela - posted on 02/26/2011

WTF?!!!
oh this genius republican state rep. again.

Stifler's - posted on 02/26/2011

Um are you serious do they go around interviewing people who have just had a miscarriage to make sure there was no foul play?! Insensitive much? Once again, a bill impossible to enforce and a waste of time passing.

Rosie - posted on 02/26/2011

fucktards, the whole lot of em them!!! i'm having trouble wrapping my mind around this SHIT!! it's seriously fucked up. i simply don't understand how a MAN who couldn't even fathom the first fucking thing about being pregnant, none the less having a miscarriage, can have any type of say in this type of matter.

Isobel - posted on 02/26/2011

I just can't stop myself from imagining a poor woman who continually has miscarriage after miscarriage who is married to an abusive fucktard who turns her in and has her killed cause she can't give him a baby.

Sarah - posted on 02/26/2011

I like what Ghandi said..."An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.This bill is poposterous!!

Sharon - posted on 02/26/2011

I am LOVING Kristas' idea. I'm in the middle of a wicked period. Intense cramps that make me whine out loud or gasp in pain, leaving my co-workers PUZZLED and scared. Its chock full of clots and I'd be perfectly happy to send him a sample to check. I'm a law abiding citizen who would like to stay on the right side of the law. If I need to be locked up to protect all my eggs, well then so be it. Who's got an address? I'm thinking a ziplock baggy is a good idea.

Sapphire - posted on 02/26/2011

What a waste of TIME and EFFORT to the residents of Georgia! There are so many serious issues that their state government should be focusing on: unemployment, education, state healthcare. Instead they are wasting time and resources on this crap?! I'm forwarding this to a friend of mine who lives in Georgia for her 2 cents. I suppose I would have been guilty of murder too with my 3 miscarriages. I later learned it was through a progesterone dificiency-my body makes such little progesterone to support a pregnancy. I had to be on those nasty suppositories for 14 weeks! But in the eye's of this MAN, I would have been guilty of murder @@

Lacye - posted on 02/26/2011

When they are talking about miscarriages, they are talking about ones that could possible been induced by human involvement. For example, if a woman wants to get rid of her baby by miscarriage and gets a person to punch her in the stomach over and over again until she does miscarry. That is what the bill is talking about.

With that said, I don't agree with this bill. I am pro life but you know what, I can't make that decision for other people. It's not my place.

Tracey - posted on 02/26/2011

Thought people were innocent until proven guilty? Therefore it will be up to the police to investigate all women to see what they have done to cause their miscarriage.

In theory does this now mean a woman can be raped and if she conceives and loses his child she can get life but the man get away if found not guilty ?

Sneaky - posted on 02/26/2011

Maybe I am just picky - but I AM a human . . . so basically there would be no way to prove that there was no human involvement in my miscarriage. The alternative, of course, would be to claim that I am not human . . . . . hmmmmm.

Sal - posted on 02/26/2011

i have never had a miscarriage (that i know about) but am glad that aus doesn't have the death penalty or i'd never let my hubby near me again

Jakki - posted on 02/25/2011

This guy should go and join the Taliban, he'd fit right in.

Johnny - posted on 02/25/2011

I think a PP was right. This guy is like a political "loss leader". He does shit so crazy that he makes the crazy shit everyone else is doing look saner.

Johnny - posted on 02/25/2011

From Wikipedia:

Franklin is the former Chairman of the House Legislative & Congressional Reapportionment Committee. He was first elected to the Georgia House in 1996.[1]

Franklin proposed a measure that would prohibit all abortions in Georgia.[2] The Marietta Republican voted "No" against bill HCS HB 147: Pre-Abortion Sonograms that passed the House on 19 March 2007 (116 - 54).[3]

Sponsored by Representative Franklin and dropped in the House Hopper on February 13, 2009, House Bill 430, the "Constitutional Tender Act", aims to make gold and silver the only legal tender for payment of debts in the state of Georgia pursuant to Article I, Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution.[4] Franklin maintains that all fifty U.S. states are in violation of this Constitutional stipulation as paper and electronic bank notes (Federal Reserve Accounting Unit Dollars) are used nearly exclusively as tender. On February 17, 2009, Representative Franklin introduced House Bill 466 that would tax the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta as it would any other privately owned bank in the state of Georgia.[5]

Franklin has sought to abolish Georgia′s Road and Tollway Authority and Department of Health and Human Services.[6] Franklin is an opponent of public schools, stating on his weekly blog that, "The State Has No Jurisdiction To Educate Our Children — Period!"[7] Rep. Franklin commented that public schools are a "sinking ship" and he believes that private and home schooling are a better alternative for Georgia.

In January 2011, Franklin sponsored a bill that would do away with driver′s licenses in the State of Georgia. Franklin stated that the licenses represented “oppressive times” and “licensing of drivers cannot be required of free people, because taking on the restrictions of a license requires the surrender of an inalienable right.” He further stated that the freedom of movement by operating an automobile should be open to all Americans, regardless of age or driving skills. He cemented these beliefs by noting that he does not object to 12 year old children driving cars on Georgia Highways.[8]

In 2011 he also proposed, in House Bill 14, to amend Georgia state criminal code with regards to rape so that the legal term “accuser” be substituted for the legal term “victim,” thereby protecting a rape victim (in common terminology) from being billed for medical investigation of her rape if her rapist should be acquitted [9][10]; the bill infuriated victims′ advocates. In House Bill 1, a bill Franklin proposed that would outlaw abortion, a section of existing Georgia statute is quoted which requires that every "spontaneous fetal death" have its cause investigated by the "proper investigating official."[11] The bill would also make abortion and (human caused) miscarriages punishable by death or life in prison.[12]


Franklin is a fierce opponent of abortion and gay rights. Franklin holds that America has strayed from its Christian past and the country needs to be changed into a Christian nation. Franklin believes that legislation that is in direct opposition to God's word will bring about the wrath of God. In 2010, Franklin stated, "Islamic terrorism is not the greatest threat facing America. God is."[13] Franklin claims that President George W. Bush "praises the gods of pagan religions."[14]

Franklin is well known for being one of the farthest Right politicians in America. It has afforded him many enemies and very few allies outside of his district.


Personal Life

Representative Franklin is a graduate of Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, Ga., where he received a degree in Biblical studies and business administration.[1] He and his wife, Pat, have been married for over 27 years. They have three children, and are active members of Chalcedon Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

Janessa - posted on 02/25/2011

Wow if I were an american women I would never want to be a Republican because this men makes them all look crazy. This men stand for no womens right at all how can a women vote for an idoit like him and is he married and what does his wife have to say about this? I am just shocked that a men would make such a law when he is not a women. Here in Canada I am a conserative person but I do believe in abortion it is a womens right no one else.

Johnny - posted on 02/25/2011

I like Krista's used tampon plan. I think that's pretty much EXACTLY what this guy deserves. You should forward it on to some Georgia women's groups.

Taking this line of thinking to it's illogical conclusion (which isn't really that far), could men be prosecuted for impregnating the wrong woman? It is believed that some couples repeatedly miscarry because their sperm and egg combines to make unstable embryos. In this case, they are committing a premeditated miscarriage and both should be charged. Every couple should seek genetic testing before attempting to copulate.

Stephanie - posted on 02/25/2011

Ive had 10 miscarriages, therefore I am a serial killer lol. Fear me!!! ; )

Just to add a bit more 'ridiculous' to the mix, my in-laws are very superstitious and believe that a woman must wear something red during an eclipse or her baby will be stolen by a witch, which in lamans terms is a miscarriage.
Should this be added to the new Bill? If you don't wear red during an eclipse and you miscarry you have murdered your baby and will be punished by death? My oh my.

Minnie - posted on 02/25/2011

Krista that made me LOL!

Joy - posted on 02/25/2011

Well then put my ass in chains and lock me up. I've had 4 miscarriages. I'd like to know how they would go about proving that a miscarriage didn't have anything to do with "human involvement". You're pregnant. You wake up one day bleeding. Then you're not pregnant anymore. That's about how it goes. So....did I twist the wrong way in my sleep? Pick up something too heavy the day before? Those would both be "human involvement". Of course, there's always the natural selection defense for us felons. Stupid to even propose such a law. Stupid to even say something like that out loud. And obviously, people vote for him. Now THAT's scary.

Jodi - posted on 02/25/2011

And Lisa makes a really good point:

"If this were to become law I wonder how many women would choose to not seek medical attention if they truly needed it, for fear of being accused."



I had to seek medical attention with one of my miscarriages and was losing so much blood they had to put me in a wheelchair to get me to emergency, then into emergency surgery in the middle of the night. It was that, or I could have died. But I couldn't IMAGAINE the trauma of also, following that surgery and coping with the aftermath, including my dead baby, of being accused of murder. That's just heartless. MOST miscarriages cause a lot of trauma for a woman. Don't these idiots realise how very difficult a time it already is without shit like this?



Would I have sought medical attention? I may have held off for longer to "wait and see", but that could have been too long.....

Jodi - posted on 02/25/2011

I like Krista's idea :D

Sal - posted on 02/25/2011

it looks as though they are manufacturing a potential crime simply by making a law to prevent it before it even exisits, by making abortions punishable by the death penalty it is going to force women to drastic and dangerous measures to self aborting at homes then they can use this to justify the stupid law that caused the need to resort to this action....

Krista - posted on 02/25/2011

1 in 3 pregnancies end in miscarriage often before the woman is aware that she is pregnant.

My proposal: all women in Georgia should send Bobby Franklin every single one of their used tampons and maxipads, accompanied by a note saying, "Seeing as it's possible to miscarry without even being aware of the pregnancy, I just want to make sure that I haven't inadvertently broken the law. Can you inspect these for me and let me know if there's a zygote contained therein?"

Krista - posted on 02/25/2011

Well that's the thing. Between trying to redefine rape, trying to make miscarriage a crime, and fighting against the health care act, I'm thinking that the Republicans have to be pretty fucking stupid to wonder why everybody else thinks that they hate women. They fetishize the fetus, but don't give a sweet damn about any human out of the womb. If they were THAT worried about babies and kids, they would have fixed healthcare when they were in office, and they'd be doing something to try to alleviate child hunger and poverty, and to improve the school system.

All save the mighty fetus! But if you're 5, hungry and poor, and in a crappy school? Well, your parents should have just kept their legs shut if they couldn't afford kids, or they should just magically get better-paying jobs so that they can send you to private school.

Minnie - posted on 02/25/2011

Maybe some guy should just make it a crime to be a woman? That seems to be where the trend is heading this year.

Krista - posted on 02/25/2011

Bobby Franklin is insane beyond all recognition. However, that doesn't make him any less dangerous. Because his proposition is so far out there, then it makes the "still crazy, but not batshit-crazy" proposals by other Republicans look more moderate and reasonable.

In other words, he and his ilk have moved the Overton Window so far right that they make Pat Buchanan look like a tree-hugging hippie.

Kate CP - posted on 02/25/2011

This scares the hell out of me. :/

Becky - posted on 02/25/2011

This is insane! I can understand investigating if you have reasonable cause to believe that the woman or someone else caused the death of her baby, but to investigate every woman who has a miscarriage??? Way to further traumatize someone who has already gone through a horrible and painful experience! And I agree with Lisa, I can see this causing the death of women because they don't seek medical attention when it's needed due to fear of being investigated. I hope this bill gets shot down into a million little pieces!

Good Day! - posted on 02/25/2011

This bill is insulting.

Teresa - posted on 02/25/2011

You can't prove how a miscarriage happened in the majority of cases. I agree w/ being accused of murder if someone else obviously causes the death of your baby, but to investigate all miscarriages as if they are a crime is completely ludicrous!

Lady Heather - posted on 02/25/2011

Also - how do they prove one way or the other? Sure sometimes there's a proven medical cause. Maybe a detectable chromosomal abnormality or whatever. But I don't think the cause is so apparent in most cases, especially if the miscarriage takes place at home. I don't know what he is expecting police to find. A big bottle of fetus poison under the bathroom sink? A bloody coat hanger? Really.

Lady Heather - posted on 02/25/2011

How do the insane get elected? This guy is free to exist with his ridiculous ideas, but who in the hell is voting for him? Are there that many people that believe this crap? That's the scariest thought to me.

Bonnie - posted on 02/25/2011

Majority of miscarriages are not the woman's fault. I think this guy has nothing better to do with his life. Miscarriages are difficult enough for women to go through.

Tara - posted on 02/25/2011

1 in 3 pregnancies end in miscarriage often before the woman is aware that she is pregnant. Approx more than half a million pregnancies in the US will end in miscarriage each year.
That's a lot of paperwork.
I truly think politicians who spend their time and the tax payers money to put forth such archaic, dogmatic and ignorant laws such as this one should be forced out of office, they can go work for some special interest group that supports and admires their twisted, misogynistic and largely right wing conservative christian view points.

Cathy - posted on 02/25/2011

Miscarriages can happen for so many reasons.

At what point does it become the woman's responsibility?
Is she guilty because she carried on drinking 2 cups of coffee a day? Caffeine increases the risk of miscarrying.
What about a woman who works through her pregnancy? Would work stress that triggered a loss be considered human negligence? She could have chosen to give up work the minute she found out she was carrying, couldn't she?

Minnie - posted on 02/25/2011

Now, I trusted my body to take care of my miscarriage at home- and it worked pretty efficiently. But I know that doesn't happen for everyone. Sometimes a woman is just bleeding too much to be safe at home- I even had tennis ball sized clots and was feeling a bit dizzy and we did discuss going to the hospital at one point.



If this were to become law I wonder how many women would choose to not seek medical attention if they truly needed it, for fear of being accused.

ME - posted on 02/25/2011

So, every mother who has a miscarriage would be required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that she miscarried naturally and not as a result of abortion. Because miscarrying isn't traumatic enough. Something like 1 in 5 pregnancies end this way...that's an awful common thing to be treating as a possible crime EVERY time...These people are heartless, thoughtless, morons!

Laura Zoey - posted on 02/25/2011

Actually, self inflicted miscarriages would be called abortions right? So a loss of pregnancy that is man made is an abortion, a loss of pregnancy that is random, or nature made would be called a miscarriage.
So no one could fault a mom for miscarrying but if they think she performed a self inflicted abortion, then I'd understand a punishment, not death but something.

ME - posted on 02/25/2011

Misogynist!

Laura Zoey - posted on 02/25/2011

That's ridiculous, I mean if it said "miscarriages suspected to be self inflicted" or something similar then I could understand a bit better.
But miscarriages happen alot and usually are not something that can be prevented.

April - posted on 02/25/2011

The death penalty is going too far. Most women who miscarry are never able to find out the trigger. Imagine all the women who would be on death row!

Katherine - posted on 02/25/2011

Aha, I knew it!!!!

Jodi - posted on 02/25/2011

Oh, and I'm just a skeptical bitch, that probably counts for some of it :P

Jodi - posted on 02/25/2011

Are you asking me Katherine? I know, it's something I routinely look for when reading anything, LOL.



I studied Research and Statistics, and also did several legal subjects at Uni. I'm not qualified for any of it, but yeah, I had to study it all a fair bit, including pulling apart all sorts of things to learn how to establish integrity in our work.



But I'm not always right :D I just know whether I trust what I read. And I also know how EASY it is to manipulate a study or fall down with the integrity of the various variables, so it has become habit to question it.

Katherine - posted on 02/25/2011

Did you take law classes or have to take apart studies? You always know when a study is *bad*.



Edit ti add: Obviously this one is self explanatory and this is @ Jodi.

Minnie - posted on 02/25/2011

That is interesting about the flip side- regarding fetuses killed by someone else. But wow- the death penalty? LOL

Jodi - posted on 02/25/2011

If it were worded that the onus of proof was on the prosecutors to PROVE that human involvement WAS a factor (rather than the onus on the individual to prove that it wasn't), it may take on a totally different meaning, but apparently that isn't the way it was worded? Not having read the bill, it is hard to know, because very small semantics can change the entire meaning. But yeah, threatening death penalty for ANY of it would never fly, surely!!!

Katherine - posted on 02/25/2011

Kind of like the justifiable homicide one for killing abortion doctors. This one will never fly.
I would be dead too.
Now if they said what Jodi said about killing a fetus in a car accident or murder that would be a different story.
And to prove there was no human involvement? How Exactly do you PROVE that? They would be spending a ton of money investigating.
Either way, death is way too harsh.

Sal - posted on 02/25/2011

well what can you say to that....i just hope i doesn't get any real support.....(another MIL moment here) when my sil miscarried her mum (my mil) told her she was selfish for doing it (yep it is a choice) she should of had the baby, if it was deformed or mentally challanged she would of taken it in....some people just have no idea!