Moms using children as pawns!

[deleted account] ( 70 moms have responded )

I know a lot of women who keep children from fathers, not because they are bad parents but for many others reasons.

Some of the most common ones I see:

1) Behind on child support.

2) Bitter because theres a new woman.

3) Mom doesn't approve of dad life style when hers really isn't any better.

4) Criminal history, even when they have changed there ways and no longer live a life of crime.



I'm curious how you ladies feel. Is it ok to deny a father time with their child because they can't afford all the child support they owe? Is it ok to do this because you don't like stepmommy? Because dad drinks or smokes weed when the kids aren't around? Because they have a rocky past and have been to prison.



Edit to add-Also when women tell their men if they leave they won't ever see their children again! I see this all the time and I find it crazy.

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Isobel - posted on 10/14/2010

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My kids' dad is an asshat, and I really don't care one ounce for his rights.

It's my kids' rights that I care about. It is their right to know their dad...whether or not HE deserves it. There have been multitudes of studies to prove that children are far more successful and mentally stable when they have both parents in their life as much as possible.

For them, I give him some of his child support back so he can feed them and spend weekends with him, for them, I put up with him constantly canceling and lie to them about how important the thing is that came up.

I think that women who keep their kids from their dad are misguided...and usually selfish.

Elizabeth - posted on 10/22/2010

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"I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see why some should have to pay High child support to just see their child when mom feels like letting them".

Child support and visitation are two seperate issues. Dads can see the children unless of course a judge ordered them not to. If mom is still refusing the kids to see their dad, than dads needs to go back to court.

Erin - posted on 10/15/2010

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Behind on child support - nope, not a valid reason to keep a child from their father. As Jodi said, it is a separate issue. And although it would raise questions as to what his priorities are (any decent father would want to contribute to his child's upbringing), it is not putting the child in harm's way (physically or emotionally).



Bitter because of new woman - It would really depend on the situation. I wouldn't be comfortable with a string of random women entering my child's life, but if it was a serious stable relationship I would totally butt out. If there were any scenarios like the ones Sharon mentioned, it would be fucking ON. I would not keep the father away, but I would not allow my child to be around someone so toxic and emotionally abusive. Emotional welfare is just as important as physical wellbeing.



Don't approve of his lifestyle - Drug use or excessive drinking would raise some huge red flags, but it would really depend on the situation and how much I could trust that he didn't do it while he had the child.



Criminal history - Not really applicable, since the worst trouble any of my exes has been in was a DUI years ago. I don't think I'd ever be involved with someone with a criminal history so it's really a mute point.



I come from divorced parents, and am also a single mother with an absent ex. My parents never had any issues making things work. Dad paid more than required in child support. Mum was always accommodating with visitation. Now in my situation, I have tried every method of persuasion to get my ex involved, and every effort has failed. As things stand now, I would never stand in the way of him developing a relationship with our daughter. But there are certain things that would put me on edge (as I mentioned above), and there are obviously some total deal-breakers.



The mentality that a child can be kept from a father just because the mother is spurned is wrong. But there are definitely real instances where mothers NEED to be concerned. They NEED to be vigilant in protecting their kids from dangerous situations (both emotionally and physically). It is these women who are then tainted with the same brush as those who are just being wenches.

Sharon - posted on 10/15/2010

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@Leslie Really?

QUOTE: Or they do things like drugs, and are not so great people. Even if my husband went that way, I would still ensure he saw his children. It may not be over night, it may not be with them alone. Maybe drop them with tehir grandparents and he could go over there and see them. As long as I knew he wouldn't hurt them and someone else was there to make sure nothing went wrong, I wouldn't mind him seeing them even if he was a big loser. END QUOTE

In my thinking - a loser is a guy who agrees women should be subserviant.

A loser is a guy who tells his kids to not be afraid of the cops because they are shit heads with guns they can't use on them, because they're kids.

A loser is a guy who tells his kids what a bitch their mother is and how everything is actually her fault.

A loser is a guy who refuses to feed the breastmilk you sent with your baby and feeds the infant formula instead, just to fuck with you.

Really? You'd be ok sending your child to stay with a man like that?

Oh and as for you dictating the child wouldn't have overnights or full day stays - LMFAO!! Really? Since when do you get to decide what is right for your child? Remember, he's the dad, he has full say according to the courts AND THEY determine the "fair" value of a request. Not you.

And the step mom issue - I know a lot of good stepmoms, I was one. But I know a lot of shitty one and I've read of more. What would you do if the new wife told your child they were a bastard?

What would you do if the new wife bought her kids icecream but not yours?

What would you do if the new wife called you daily so you could hear your kid cry in the background while you knew the ex was at work? Yeah that used to happen to a girl I worked with.

Fuck that shit. You ask ANY court - that is NOT grounds to keep your kid away from your ex. But it is in mine.

Sharon - posted on 10/14/2010

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Oh yeah - If I don't like the the replacement wife, the kids aren't going over there.

LOOK. If I don't like the parents of my kids friends, my kids aren't going there. DUH.

If he has a criminal past but has truely reformed, then that is of no account.

If he has a criminal past and is now associating with the same criminal types, then yes, its my job to protect my kids. DUH.

I don't believe in smoking weed or cigarrettes. SO yeah, if he decides to start smoking anything and he's doing it around the kids, then its my job to protect my kids.

I wouldn't be bitter of a new woman (I think) but what if the replacement wife were this woman...
http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/zah... ?? what then?

Behind on child support. WHY? because he's unemployed but has the money for cigs and pot? Or because he's spending it on the replacement wife?

If he can't be bothered to pay for his childs' support when he can afford it, does he really want the children? Or is he using them as a pawn himself to take digs at his ex?

This reads like a dirt digging expedition.

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Isobel - posted on 10/23/2010

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not here...if it goes down significantly you are responsible for finding another job to maintain the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed (another part of the system I don't like)

Elizabeth - posted on 10/23/2010

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If the child support goes through the state, than you just call up the child support office and tell them your income went down.

Isobel - posted on 10/23/2010

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In Canada, you can file without a lawyer (and if it is in regards to a mother withholding a child...he'd probably win without one).

But it really isn't that simple. While my ex is an asshat, he also has 4 children with 3 women (I'm the only idiot who went back for more I guess ;P)

anyhoo...he pays out almost half of his salary to everybody (I voluntarily took less cause seeing their father with NOTHING isn't good for them), they calculate your eligibility for legal aid based on your salary...so he doesn't qualify.

Jenn - posted on 10/23/2010

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Regarding the issue of men not being able to afford to back to court - I don't know how it works anywhere else but here I'd say BULLSHIT! I know my ex qualifies for legal aid so he could get a FREE lawyer - I've told him to do so several times so he can get this all taken care of yet he hasn't because he's an idiot. And even without qualifying for legal aid, you don't NEED a lawyer for something as simple as having your payments adjusted to reflect your new income - it's a simple fill in the blanks form that you submit to the courts and the judge would go off of the charted amounts to decide what your new payments would be.

C. - posted on 10/23/2010

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Well.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but child support is based on how much the parent makes, right? At least that's what I heard about it.. So I don't think that would really be a valid reason for either parent.

I can see how bitterness might affect a woman's thought of her kids going to the ex's house and whatnot.. BUT it is not a valid reason to keep the kids away from their dad. Or vice versa if the situation was reversed.

Not approving of dad's lifestyle.. If he's not doing anything illegal or inappropriate in front of their kids, it really shouldn't be a problem.

Criminal history.. As long as the one with the criminal history has really changed how they are living their lives, that shouldn't be a problem, either.

And when women tell their man if they leave they won't see their child again.. It's wrong.

It's wrong to use kids as pawns and I hate to see it happen. I will admit that I did this a few times with my husband when we first had our son and then moved away from family. He was a young, new dad and had a lot of growing up to do and I also had as much growing up to do. Looking back, I wish I never threatened to leave, let alone used my son as a pawn in those situations.

I think when it comes to that, people really need to take a step back and evaluate the situation with an open mind. Kids need their parents. Whether they are split up or not, they still need to have that bond with them.

I will say, though, that IF my husband and I ever divorced (BIG if, there) and he had a new wife/gf.. If I didn't like her (for anything other than the fact that she's with my ex), then my kids won't go over to his house where that woman will most likely be present. He can still see the kids, but not with her in tow.

Jenn - posted on 10/23/2010

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Oh - to add to the child support discussion - here in Canada the amount that you are ordered to pay is based on only your income. It doesn't matter what the mother earns or doesn't earn, nor does it matter if the Dad has a new wife and she makes money - they only take into consideration HIS income. And, the only time they go below the guideline amounts is if the mother agrees and/or if the father has extreme circumstances like he is already caring for another child and that child has severe disabilities and there are high costs in caring for said child. And to go above the guidelines would only happen if he agreed to do so, but I don't think that happens often. I think it works out to about 11% of their income. So if you made $100,000 a year, you would pay about $916/month based on one child.

Jenn - posted on 10/23/2010

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Well, here's my situation. My ex hasn't paid his court ordered child support in 2 years (FRO is taking action but it's a slow process), he has flat out told me he refuses to get a job because he thinks he's going to be a rock star and make millions (too bad he's not a good singer), he only calls or sends an email about once every 6 weeks, and he is the type of person who is NOT a good influence - he cheats, steals, and lies his way through life AND bullies people into doing what he wants. Having said that - I have no legal reason to keep my son from him and I don't. The ONLY time I said he couldn't see him was just 2 weeks ago when he asked to pick him up and I told him that we had plans (the fair was on and then it was Thanksgiving) plus my son is now in school, so I said that the next week would be better on a day when he wasn't in school - plus he would have to find a ride since FRO suspended his driver's licence. He hasn't responded. So anyway, to answer your question, I don't deny him and I do think it's wrong to do so. The only time I could see keeping your child from their father (or mother depending on the custody arrangements) is if it puts the child at risk, in which case you should go back to court to seek full custody and/or have the other parent do something to "fix" their problem, whatever it may be.

Jodi - posted on 10/22/2010

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Elizabeth, my point was about your comment about men whining. Some men simply don't have the money to take it back to court again and again and again. Some men are entitled to whine.

[deleted account]

Well, I do agree w/ that, but the way that last sentence sounded to me is that if the mom has full custody... the dad shouldn't pay support at all. My ex would tell you that he would love to have his kids full time.... yet he can't 'afford' to pay the $220 plane ticket to come and see them each month.... so how would he afford to raise them? I do want the financial support for them, of course, but I've never gotten any yet so that doesn't really make a difference to me (it will when I can manage to get off of welfare, but that's another story). It isn't why he 'can't' see his kids. That's entirely on him for moving so dang far away. If he had chosen to live on the same island as his kids.... we'd have joint custody, but 'other' things were/are more important to him than his kids.



Sorry... venting a tad again. ;)

[deleted account]

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see why some should have to pay High child support to just see their child when mom feels like letting them.

Elizabeth - posted on 10/22/2010

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"Parents are responsible for supporting their kids not exes".
Assuming the ex is the biodad than yes, he is responsible for supporting his kids, so is the mother.

You're right about child support, some moms make more than dads, and dads don't have to pay that much. It goes both ways.

[deleted account]

No offense Liz, but the last statement in your first paragraph sounds like it came directly from my ex's wife.

[deleted account]

Child support is based on income of both parents and if Mom has less income then Dad, he automatically pays more. Parents are responsible for supporting their kids not exes. If more parents that live in the same area shared the responsibility and more dads got the rights and visitation they are entitled too their child support would go down. If a mother wants to keep full custody of their kids when the dad is perfectly suitable and capable of taking care of them too, then in my opinion mom has the financial responsibility.

Like I mentioned before, my ex was still going to be ordered $275 a month when we have split custody, we already split the cost of raising our son so why should he pay me a dime only because I make less money.

Elizabeth - posted on 10/22/2010

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"I can't stand men that whine that they can't see their kids"

I think that is a bit harsh. Some men are coughing up a fortune in child support, and simply can't afford the legal costs to fight for their rights.....to be honest, I am often flabbergasted at the amount of child support some men are ordered to pay in the US. You can't tell me it costs $1500 a month to raise one child (as an example) over and above what it costs you, as a mother, to pay for your own cost of living if you were on your own.
-----------------------
Child support is based on income. So if a mom is getting $1500 a month in child support than the dad makes pretty good money.

Gabrielle - posted on 10/19/2010

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It makes me sick when women use the kids. I myself am with someone that has an ex who uses the child. she has went as far as to say if he gets a full time job, then he can see the child. that is not her decision to make. I would never stop my childs father from seeing her because of any of the reasons above. Aslong as there are no drugs smoked around my child!! Only becuase you have been to prison doesnt mean that your a bad father, does it? My partners ex hates me! I have never done anything to her apart from trying to be civil. She assaulted me when i was pregnant, slammed a car door into my babies pram etc. I feel she is jealous because i got the little girl she has always wanted. If my child came to me and said she didnt want to see her dad/grandparents again and told me the reasons, i would not force her. Until that day though they can see her whenever they want. Its would not be my choice to make it would be hers! x

Brandi - posted on 10/19/2010

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Ok, my ex husband hasn't paid a dime of child support in 3 years... I still allow my kids to see him. They adore their dad, even though I am not sure why.. he only lets them down. But, they are 4 and 5 and they realize it is not my fault. I live an hour and a half away from their dad, he is to pick them up on Fridays (every other Friday) and I am to pick them back up on Sundays. Here is the real question... He uses the excuse that he doesn't have the gas and expects ME to take them to his house AND come back to pick them up... this is when I have started not allowing him to see them, he lives at home with his mom and girlfriend, and you better believe they don't miss out on their cigarettes or beer, so I guess that is MORE important than having money to put gas in the car so they can spend time with the children that they already don't help to support. It is my place to TAKE CARE of the kids... it is not my place to take them to him for him to have time with them, if he wants the time, he needs to make it happen, not me.

Paige - posted on 10/18/2010

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When the father is an abusive asshole, and goes out of his way to make sure the child knows that mommy is a bitch, like my BD is and does, then I think I have every right to try and limit his time as much as freaking possible. Like I said previously though, the above reasons wouldn't make me keep my kid away from his father. Well, unless the father was currently doing major illegal practices, and if the drugs were hardcore (I don't care for drugs, but pot should be legalized, it's nothing). Seriously though, if my BD got a new woman in his life and could get him to straighten up I'd running through the streets screaming HALLELUJAH!!!! I've never gotten a penny from my BD, nor do I care that he never has. All I care about is the mental, emotional and physical well being of my kid. No kid deserves to have to go to a parents house and subjected to abuse - whether that parent is the primary caregiver or only has visitation rights.

[deleted account]

Honestly I don't care if my exes smoke pot. I don't care if they do when my kids are at their house, but I do care if my kids see it. Most pot heads I know are hard working responsible parents. I don't really care about a criminal past if it's PAST, my ex has been to prison 3 times and my husband once. My mom says I have bad boy issues, shes probably right. BUT it doesn't matter how many times they went to prison because my husband and my ex are great dads. The only complaint I have with my ex as far as parenting goes is he has trouble with the emotional side and my daughter is a very emotional child.

Jaye-Charisma - posted on 10/17/2010

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I'm a single parent of three - child support isn't a reason for me to deny visits nor a new woman I actually hope a kind rich woman would come into his life (that would help with past due child support - lol), but seriously a criminal past and drugs would be a reason for me to let the courts know my concerns and would want supervised visits. But usually individuals like this are more concerned with pot than working and being an involved parent. I'm tired of the excuses of the other parent if you need to stop smoking pot to get a job and see your kids do it - I'm willing to die for my kids I'm certain being employed and drugfree won't kill you.

Jodi - posted on 10/17/2010

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Exactly Liz. My husband got screwed when his ex decided to move interstate with her new husband because he is in the Navy. My husband was not able to stop it.....He used to see his son MUCH more often before that (at least 3 nights a week). Once he started school, it was cut back to every second weekend and half school holidays - we had no choices. He could have tried to fight for HER to get every other weekend and half school holidays, but we both knew he'd be beating a dead horse fighting that one.

[deleted account]

"I can't stand men that whine that they can't see their kids"



Wow, that is harsh. Dads get screwed when it comes to parental rights all the time. As a parent who gets screwed out of enough time with their children they have a right to whine.

[deleted account]

I think it's disgusting when women stop a father seeing their child when they have done nothing wrong...here in the UK there's a group called Father's for Justice who are trying to make more rights for men when couples split.

Jodi - posted on 10/16/2010

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"I can't stand men that whine that they can't see their kids"

I think that is a bit harsh. Some men are coughing up a fortune in child support, and simply can't afford the legal costs to fight for their rights.....to be honest, I am often flabbergasted at the amount of child support some men are ordered to pay in the US. You can't tell me it costs $1500 a month to raise one child (as an example) over and above what it costs you, as a mother, to pay for your own cost of living if you were on your own.

Elizabeth - posted on 10/16/2010

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I can't stand men that whine that they can't see their kids, I also can't stand when moms keep their kids away from their dad unless they're ordered by a judge to stay away.

Petra - posted on 10/16/2010

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I really like the input from the moms in these real life situations. I think its easy to say what you would or wouldn't do, but rationality flies out the window when its your relationship and your kids. I like to think that if my partner and I were to break up, I'd be perfectly reasonable and put our shit aside for our boy, but I can't say that would 100% be the case as I have never been in that position. I can speak from the perspective of a step-mother, but again, I see nothing but the crazy doled out by my step-son's mother in our individual situation. I did work in family law for years and saw some really effed up situations involving incredibly petty and selfish reasons for denial of access - but in most cases, money was the underlying issue. A lot of mothers, my son's step-mother included, equate father's rights with the right to pay for leaving. If he's going to see his kids, he's got to pay. One has nothing to do with the other, really, but a lot of women can't separate the notion of him literally paying for his rights from the kid's rights to their father. It blows my mind, but I have the luxury of looking at it as an outsider.

[deleted account]

It would be in mine too, Sharon, but if you go against the court YOU get in trouble and possible jail time and the creep ex gets the kids anyway. What then?

Not saying that to argue w/ you. You know enough of my real life situation to know I'm asking cuz I really want to know the answer to that one.

[deleted account]

Thanks for saying what I've been thinking Elizabeth. Even if I WANTED to keep my kids from my ex... I would be in contempt of court for doing it. That would be why he tells everyone that his ex won't let him see his kids.... except when we're in court cuz he knows it's a lie. Then he just makes up excuses for why HE doesn't come see them.....

Elizabeth - posted on 10/15/2010

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Legally a mother can't keep the kids away from their dad, unless a judge told dad to stay away. Even unfit parents can have visitation.

So all these poor guys that can't see their kids, grow up go to court and get visitation.

[deleted account]

Hmmm well that is quite complicated. I mean if the man is a genuinely "good" person and has and is trying his best for the sake of the child, then I think it is very selfish to keep the child from seeing him. Children won't know the complications of an adult and to them, they don't care what their father is, they just want a daddy most of the time.

Replacement wife, I mean as long as she knows her place then I would not mind her being around. Would be a serious smack-down if she tried to intrude onto space which she is not allowed in.

Drugs, to be honest, as long as it is not around the child, and would not affect him/her in any way, then that would be his business and not mine.

Jail, if he has truly changed and is trying to make good, then maybe visits with supervision depending on what his crimes were.

And if he has a new "girlfriend" then I will forbid her to have anything to do with my child until things are more stable between him and her. I mean if it is just a fling, then she has no business with a strangers child.

But yes. Main point being, most of the time, people keep kids from each other in attempts to get back at them for something, then that is terrible. Sounds to me like they are just as bad as the partner if not worse. Children don't know or care what their father does during his free time, they just know him as "Dad".

Kim - posted on 10/15/2010

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I'm still married but my parents were divorced. MY Father was seeing other women(probably went to school with some of my 1/2 siblings) but she only kicked him out when he was dropping pills(drugs) on the floor where we were playing. He quit his job so he wouldn't have to pay the measly $75 a month in child support. We were on Welfare while he went all over the country with his girlfriends. Then he got one pregnant. I didn't talk to him for a yr, I was sooo upset and she was a real jerk too! Kids know. They will see what is going on and make their own decisions and see their parents for what they are. You shouldn't hide it. My Dad lived at my Grandparents yet was what we thought was too sleepy, when actually he was hung over, to take us for our day, you get to be a teen and you know. And again we were on welfare yet my 1/2 sister got/gets everything even a huge like $50,000 wedding. For my whole life I got a cake and a broke limo. LIke that doesn't hurt. So I didn't really answer the first question but kind of responded to the others.

Paige - posted on 10/15/2010

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It's not just mothers who do this. My BD uses his two kids with another woman to push her around and has even tried it with me. It's sad how many people "care" about and for their kids when someone is looking over their shoulder, but not so much when they're left to their own devices. I think as long as mom is keeping baby away from dad in the best interests of the baby, than it's fine. If she's doing it out of spite, which in my opinion covers all four examples you provided Liz, then that's wrong and somebody should be kicking her in the ass and giving her a good shake.

Denikka - posted on 10/15/2010

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Abuse of any sort and drug use are my two 100%, if I find out about it, it will be a long time before he can see his kids again.
At about 14, I think a kid's old enough to decide whether or not they want to see the other parent. If my kid decided he didn't want to see his dad anymore for visits, that would be that until he changed his mind (obviously questions would be asked about why, but ultimately the kiddo would have the final say, and vice versa if he wanted to spend more time with his dad)

Child support would (hopefully) be a non issue. It's not something I intend to rely on anyways for day to day living. So as upset as I would be about not receiving it, it wouldn't be an issue between kid and dad. The only exception I can think of is if I HAD to rely on that extra money for rent, food, necessities etc. and dad didn't pay cause he didn't feel like it, blew his money on crap etc. Then there might be some major issues. You don't get your kid evicted cause you don't feel like paying.

With a new woman in dad's life, I may put some restrictions on the relationship and visits (like I have to meet her, for the first X amount of months only dad at visits, then family visits for a short while so I can see how she interacts with the kids. If she's religious, she wouldn't be allowed to push that on the kids, no taking them to church, mosque, temple whatever until (if and when) they express a desire to go etc) Beyond where it affects my kids, I have no right to butt into any relationship and I would not punish my kids or their dad just because I don't like the new woman (barring a serious reason).

Criminal activity would depend directly on what was done, what time frame, and what lifestyle they were currently leading. If I had known about the ciminal activity and chosen to have a child with them, then I would not hold that against them regarding visitation. It would only be criminal activity done after I got pregnant or activity that I wasn't aware of until after.

[deleted account]

No matter how many issues a mother has with the father of the child as long as the child will not be in any danger, i would never keep them from there father for anything..i owe my daughter that chance to have a relationship with her father.I know what it is like to not have a father i would never want my children to feel that.Thankfully i have a good man who is a fantastic daddy to his two angels.:-)Its about always putting your child's feelings, wants and needs before yours.I wish many more mothers would do that.

Leslie - posted on 10/15/2010

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NO, it is NOT alright to keep a child away from their father. Every child needs both parents. As parents we have to put our bitterness away and do what is best for our children. Of course if my husband and I divorced and he met another woman I would be jealous, and of course I wouldn't want them around her. However, HE IS THEIR FATHER, and he should see them too. I would never ever ever keep my boys from their father. If we divorced and I had them some times and he had them other times, and one day it was my day and he wanted to see them or they wanted to see him I would let them. I would never tell him only on your days. I would hope that we could put the bitterness aside and do what is best for OUR children.

Now, I know that some women have children with men that are maybe not ready to be a daddy. Or they do things like drugs, and are not so great people. Even if my husband went that way, I would still ensure he saw his children. It may not be over night, it may not be with them alone. Maybe drop them with tehir grandparents and he could go over there and see them. As long as I knew he wouldn't hurt them and someone else was there to make sure nothing went wrong, I wouldn't mind him seeing them even if he was a big loser.

However, if he was AWEFUL, and bad to the children, then NO, over my dead body would he see them. If he could prove that he loved them and that he changed, maybe supervised visits.

BUT I WOULD NEVER KEEP OUR CHILDREN AWAY FROM HIM. They love him so much, and he loves them. Just because we fell out of love or whatever happened doesn't mean the kids should suffer. So ladies if you man leaves you, or leaves you for another woman. Don't be bitter. Remember that he is still their father. You can hate him deep down inside, but don't show them. Don't fight with him when the kids are around, or even when they aren't around. Try and still be friends, it's hard, but it's for your babies. You can always find another man, someone better. Your children only get one mommie and one daddy.

[deleted account]

I did mean when they can't afford to pay.



When I split up with my sons dad, child support was gonna nail him for 580 a month. He told me he could not pay that so we went with split custody on our parenting plan and just agreed to work Ty into it over the next year. Child support still wanted to nail him for 275 a month with split custody. I dropped the case with CSED because I didn't think he should half to pay when we share all expenses already.

Jodi - posted on 10/14/2010

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Fair enough :) But I still don't think even if they CAN afford it and just don't pay it we should deprive the child of their rights to have a relationship with both parents. So to me it is irrelevant as to why they are behind on child support. It shouldn't be linked with visitation at all in my opinion.

[deleted account]

Jodi A I thought the OP meant it as in being behind on payments because they couldn't afford it, not because they chose not to pay it. Here in the UK there are men who refuse to pay it but as I say I took the meaning of the OP the complete other way lol =]

Jodi - posted on 10/14/2010

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Unless the child is in danger or will suffer ill-effects (such as neglect, being exposed to behavior that is inappropriate, drugs, abuse, etc etc), there is no reason to take your child's right away to their biological parent. As for child support, a father should be paying or should have 50/50 custody, but an inability to pay, or even just an unwillingnes to pay is not a reason to deny your child a father.
As for a woman telling the father that, it's probably out of fear or a need for control. More fathers need to take women to court to figure out custody and protect their own rights, courts do recognize that father's have rights too (in most cases).

Jenni - posted on 10/14/2010

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1. Child Support- You have to ask what's more important for your child. To have a relationship with their father or for their father to support them financially. When the child is an adult will they miss the love more or the money?

2. Bitter because of a new woman- Definitely shouldn't be a factor in allowing the father time with his children unless you geniunely feel she is putting your children in danger or is abusive towards them.

3. Mom doesn't approve of dad's lifestyle- again, only an issue if it is harmful to the child. Not if it's an issue of religion, sexual preference, values (everyone's are different) etc. If he does drugs or drinks alcohol as long as he is responsible and doesn't use when he has the child.

4. Criminal history- As long as he isn't currently engaging in criminal activity.

Denial of rights should only be under extreme circumstances which put the child in potential harm. It should never be 'personal' or out of bitterness.

Jodi - posted on 10/14/2010

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Quoting Jennifer

"1) Behind on child support - here in the UK child support is worked-out on the father's income and how much he can afford so here that shouldn't be an issue."



Are you kidding me? Do you really think someone won't be behind on child support because it was worked out on what they can afford? Bahahahaha. Believe me, people who afford it refuse to pay too, and believe me, in Australia even the Child Support Agency can't always get it out of them. I guarantee it is also an issue in the UK.

Stifler's - posted on 10/14/2010

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No it's not okay. It's not okay to be a fuck head when there's children involved in the break up, just be mature and work it out properly instead of being an idiot.

[deleted account]

I think it depends on the sistuation so I'll go through the four you described =]

1) Behind on child support - here in the UK child support is worked-out on the father's income and how much he can afford so here that shouldn't be an issue.
2) Bitter because theres a new woman - this is not acceptable but he should agree to spend time with his children without his new girlfriend there.
3) Mom doesn't approve of dad life style when hers really isn't any better - Well I don't condone smoking/doing drugs fullstop but if she has the same lifestyle then she shouldn't have the children either!
4) Criminal history, even when they have changed there ways and no longer live a life of crime - tbh it depends on what crime they commited. If it was rape or something similar I wouldn't feel comfortable with the man being around the child at all.

I think in all circumstances if the mother decides it's best for the child not to see the father they should always allow the child to decide when she/he is older whether thay want to see their father. Obviously this doesn't always happen.

[deleted account]

I agree 110% with Jodi A.

Especially the first post. My hubby and I no longer tell our oldest when her bio mom is going to come pick her up for visitations (or at least is supposed to come). The bio mom (who lives over 2600 miles away from us) has cancelled all her visitations since January 1st on very short notice. We would MUCH rather have any visits that happen be a suprise than seeing our daughter's face when she is once again disappointed by a no show or cancelled visit... And that takes out the necessity of lying! WHen our daughter asks when she'll see her "other mom" again we tell her that we don't know and she needs to ask her other mom (but of course the phone never gets answered over there... long story...). Anyway, my point is that there are a lot of ways to not have to lie, and we use silence from the start as our way.

As for post #2 of Jodi's, I only have a few minutes (or my hubby will cath me on here and I'll lose my bet with him! Eek! lol), so I'll just say "HEAR HEAR!" and cheer for her response :)

Jenny - posted on 10/14/2010

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Thankfully, I don't to have any exes to deal with. With that disclaimer out of they way, I do not believe one parent has the right to keep the children from the other except in the case of neglect or endangerment period. If the only reason is because I want to (personality conflict, new love interest, support issues, s/he's an idiot etc.) , I consider that kidnapping from the other parent.

Tah - posted on 10/14/2010

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I wanted to limit my son's time with his dad because everytime he came home i had to reprogram him like a robot. For example, potty training him was a nighmare because i would get my son to the point where he would just go and sit on the potty himself and use it, got him into pull up, send him there for a week, he comes back in diapers, back to square one...then he would come back acting, talking and behaving like his dad which would be okay if his dad knew how to do any of the above...not because he didnt and stil does not pay his child support, he father would cancel on him all the time and then when i called him like wth..were you even gonna call..he gets pissed at me...so i would just tell my son he was going to grandmas(i didnt allow him at my house)...drop my son off with my mom, tell my mom, his dad was coming to get him, but not tell him, and if his dad showed, great, if he did not, it was just a weekend with his grandmom and cousins or I would go pick him up the next day.....Now that he is 13, i actually saw my son cry for the first time, because he sees how his father is and it hurts..but i have never kept him away and i can't stand when mom's do it for spite and not because of the interest of the child...

[deleted account]

Oh, I wish we could do things w/out fighting Liz, but when my ex walked into court after basically not seeing his kids at all in almost a year and a half (by his choice) and asked for full custody to immediately take all 3 away from me (including the toddler boy who didn't even know him at all)... I realized that working together simply wasn't possible. And yet, after this last court date I STILL tried to get him to work WITH me for the sake of our son that still pretty much only knows him by name and face.....

[deleted account]

I guess I have a different situation then a lot of you. I have split custody for two of my kids, they have different dads (never married either of them), but we all work together so they are with me at the same time. Nobody pays child support, and even through all of our differences we stay civil no matter what. We all have moved on and managed to keep custody disputes out of court. My first ex went for full custody because I moved and he didn't want to lose his daughter so I moved back for the simple reason that now we all live within 20 miles of each other and its better for everyone involved.

Kimberly - posted on 10/14/2010

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I don't think a child should ever be kept from their father UNLESS they are a bad parent and would put them in harm's way, which would include doing drugs or drinking while on their "shift" or exposing them to questionable women/people. If they genuinely can't afford child support but love their kids and make every effort to be with them, I could let that slide. And I could also make nice with the new squeeze. I've been on the flip side of that, my ex had two children from two different mothers and we all got along and even hung out together a few of times over wine. Wine makes everything better. ;P

Jodi - posted on 10/14/2010

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On the OP, I don't agree with keeping children from their father UNLESS it is putting them in harm's way (such as criminal activity, abuse, etc). I agree with Laura's sentiment that it is about the children's rights to have a relationship with both parents.

And the one where someone refuses visitation because of non payment of child support, that just pisses me off. Some men genuinely struggle to pay and some are just arseholes, but that doesn't mean their kids deserve to be punished a second time (the first being depriving them of material things by not paying). I have an ex who spent years not paying anything, and even now only has to pay about $220 a month and can't get it right. But I would NEVER use that as a reason my son can't see him. I treat the child support issue as something totally separate.

The only times I have ever denied access is when my ex has refused to take my son to a school or sporting commitment while he is in his custody, or when my son has been ill (his dad wouldn't even know who my son's doctor is let alone any medical history). But I have also frequently offered extra time, and he never bothers, so *shrugs*.

Jodi - posted on 10/14/2010

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About the lying thing, at one stage, I just got to the point I wouldn't tell my son when his dad was coming to pick him up, because he would be late or not turn up at all. I'd just make sure I had everything ready, but wouldn't say anything. That saved a lot of disappointment for a very young child.

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