Other Side of the Glass

Becky - posted on 12/26/2010

Have just watched it on utube.
It is pro home birth, or pro gentle low intervention birth.
I nearly phoned my mum to thank her again for supporting me through each of my five births and more importantly for protecting me from the endless intervention that is pushed at women and babies birthing in hospital, As i remember giving birth the first time, the lack of power and the ability to express my informed choices went out the window at about six centimeters.

Johnny - posted on 12/23/2010

Like several other people in this thread, my experience birthing in a hospital was not really like they relayed in the film. I just had my husband, doula, midwife, and a nurse in the room. The lights were dim and there was soft music playing. I'd requested a "silent birth" and that is what I got. When my daughter was born, the midwife had me pull her out and up on to my chest. Our doula encouraged my husband to touch her and they quietly coached me how to let her find her latch. For the 10 minutes or so until the placenta was delivered and I started to hemorrhage, it was very quiet, peaceful and my daughter simply lay on my chest. They performed any necessary tests with her there. Normally, they do not move them except to briefly weight them until the next day. But when I started bleeding heavily, they gave her to my husband to hold and cuddle while they worked on me. When I could not hold her, they had him take off his shirt to lay her on his chest. She was not fully bathed until the following evening. All the staff was incredibly gentle and respectful of my baby. I know that is how they are trained.

The kind of manhandling that you traditionally see, especially often on shows like Baby Story, is not generally necessary according to the nurses, midwives and OB's in my birthing program. As far as I am aware, hospitals in my health region no longer practice that way of birthing with normal birth situations. Obviously, we all want any necessary medical procedures performed on our kids, but I don't think that these actions are always truly "medically necessary".

This film may have had a slight homebirthing slant, but I think it is important to realize that "baby-friendly practices" (which many hospitals now seek to be certified by the WHO in) can occur in the hospital environment.

Just because we've always seen things done in one way, doesn't mean there may not be ways to do them better. I am very thankful that our hospitals have decided that these rather archaic practices were not in the best interests of babies. They do not even have nurseries here anymore, only NICU's for special care babies.

Rebecca - posted on 12/23/2010

Wasn't really comparing just trying to take it out of context and the emotional push that talking about birth has by using a dog groomer as an example. Using the points, while taking the emotion out helps me think about the issue with more clarity.

I did watch the video and I really thought it was more propaganda than balanced when questioning practices. A bit like watching Fox News when you are conservative or MSNBC if you are super liberal....I tend to take anything from those sources with a grain of salt. The movie has the scent of a one sided agenda....IMO. It's hard to take anything they say seriously, even if they have a point.

Joanna - posted on 12/23/2010

Rebecca, they aren't trying to say all medical professionals are bad. They want you to question the practices - is everything they do necessary? - and ask that they treat your baby as if it's as important to them as the baby is to you. Since some people might not trust them to do so, they talk about homebirths, which in fact have trained people assisting in, not just the dad, though he gets to be a big part too. I don't get how a nick on a dog can even compare to the way a human enters the world. My mom had a bad birth experience with ne, and I have anxiety and emotional issues. Was it because I was ripped from her womb? Probably not. But you don't know. And thats what it's about - be gentle, you don't know how it affects the baby.

Rebecca - posted on 12/23/2010

I thought I'd take it out of context and use another example to explain that I think a legit movie about hospital births and the handling of babies would put in a host of opinions and experts-then let you decide. I actually tend to understand things better when I'm talking live with people about issues when I hear it in a different context. I thought some people might find this shines a light one a viewpoint. It was not meant to be condescending, I'm sorry you found it that way. Argumentative...hmmm, is that not what a debate is, an organized argument? Perhaps I wasn't organized enough in my written thoughts. Possible.

Kate CP - posted on 12/23/2010

I don't get the point behind your post, Rebecca, except to be argumentative and condescending?

Rebecca - posted on 12/23/2010

Well, geez, I've been to a dozen different groomers for my dog, who I love very much. Some have been better than others, one nicked her skin and didn't tell me. I guess all groomers are bad. I should not take my dog to a groomer, I'll let my fiance do it because he's close to the dog and that should qualify him to take a razor close to her eyes and private parts. Many people tell me that they have had good experiences with groomers but I tell them of my one bad experience and try to warn them that all groomers are bad. I even produced and directed a video about it. I will not include any positive experiences with grooming because there is no point, that one experience means they are all bad. I went on line to find other people who had their dog nicked and I'll get their opinions on my docudrama. I'm not interested in getting a wide variety of opinions on the matter and letting people decide according to their experiences/own sense of deduction. I don't like people who challenge my theories on groomers being bad, why should my opinion stand up to debate...my dog got hurt once.

Morgan - posted on 12/23/2010

Its scares me to think about it, my daughter was in the NICU for 6 days and came home with a 3 inch gash on the back of her head with no explanation as to how it got there, just "be thankful its not on her face" I was devastated and then the pain she went thew when we had to clean it with 3 times a day its disgusting the way they delt with it. when we went to court the OB claimed the injury was due to the forceps........on the back of her head?
it dident make sense, needless to say we won and are thankful that after head scans and plastic surgeon visits shes is healthy and perfect.

Fiona - posted on 12/23/2010

That's the point though, Sherri... the baby is fine.

You can hear from the crying that the baby is fine. Baby is not gurgling, no obvious aspirating of fluid, no lack of colour to indicate poor circulation or lack of oxygen exchange. Suctioning should be reserved for when it is required not as a matter of regular procedure or for practice and even if baby needed airway cleared, perhaps a simple bulb aspiration first would have sufficed. Now I don't know the exact scenario and maybe the baby needed deeper suctioning and I also think that they aren't 'trying to hurt the baby' but I do think that they could have been a bit more sensitive to the family, you can hear the distress in the father's voice as he tries to convince them to stop and give the baby to mum.

Sherri - posted on 12/23/2010

Really they are just trying to get you to want a home birth that really in the end is all this video is about. I just don't see your point of view on this Joanna. Sorry :(

Joanna - posted on 12/23/2010

You don't practice on an innocent baby. That's what the video is about. Babies need respect too. The baby did not require that amount of suction, regardless of practicing or not.

Sherri - posted on 12/23/2010

The baby is fine Joanna they aren't trying to hurt that baby they were simply cleaning out the air passages.

Joanna - posted on 12/23/2010

Sherri, how wouldyou like someone practicing shoving a tube down your nose and throat?

Sherri - posted on 12/23/2010

That is how it was when I gave birth in the hospital too Ebony.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 12/23/2010

You have a room you give birth in and then they transfer you to your recovery room. As soon as he came out of my V-JJ and Dad cut the cord he was placed on my chest. He was with me at all times, they washed him, did the test, checked his hearing (all this happened over the course of 2days) in the two rooms I was in, He never needed to leave the room

Good Day! - posted on 12/23/2010

April, I have a cousin and a friend that have both used mid-wives at a birthing center. Great experiences and no regrets from either of them. I'm pretty attached to my OBGYN and the center is over an hour away from my house, or I would seriously consider it.

Sherri - posted on 12/23/2010

All it is a pro home birth video. They didn't do anything horrible to that baby. Pfft is what I say to the video.

April - posted on 12/23/2010

same here Sara...i only saw zachary for a minute and then it was something like 4 hours later that they brought him to my room. i have no idea what they were doing with him for that long! i don't know what they gave me but i was sooooo out of it and i only had the normal epidural. It's not like the put me to sleep!! It was horrendous. My family is trying to stop me from even considering a home birth next time around. Even if they talk me out of having the baby at home...I am not stepping a foot in a hospital. NO WAY. If I am going to birth in a birthing center...it better not say "hospital" on the sign!!!

Good Day! - posted on 12/23/2010

After the c-section, I saw Eliza for about a minute. Then not again for 2 hours. There was nothing wrong with either of us (after she was suctioned, which I understand). When she was less about 32 hours old, the pediatrician she was assigned to in the hospital, ordered a cat scan on her, because her soft spot was so large it extended to her forehead. They came and got her at 6 am after I'd had 2 days of no sleep, and my husband was in a deep sleep, and I tried to keep them from taking her to get a cat scan. They took her and I couldn't move to wake up my husband. I sat alone (except for my sleeping husband) terrified, hormonal and exhausted. At her first doc appointment with the pediatrician WE chose, she told us the cat scan was unnecessary, there's nothing wrong with having a big soft spot, and it was too much radiation for a newborn. Now, I don't have any issues with my OBGYN or the surgery team. They did their jobs well. 90% of the nursing staff did their jobs well. But the nurse that cleaned her for 2 hours...and the one that took her when I was obviously upset and couldn't get my husband awake...and the pediatrician that ordered the cat scan...I have no kind words for.

Julianne - posted on 12/23/2010

Joanna!!! Those are the reasons i want to become a birthing assistant! i had a horrendous birth experience, and i want to bring joy back to birthing. I cant wait to get started.

Rebecca - posted on 12/23/2010

My babe came straight out to my chest. They cut the chord there, let me hold her for a lengthy amount of time and encouraged me to try to get her to latch. Then they asked if they could take her to clean her up and asked her dad to come take pictures of that process while they stitched me etc. Some of those pics are some of my fav of her birth. Not to mention the nurse who had been so kind and supportive during the delivery was over there doing it. I don't remember her even crying that much...which concerned me too but they told me she too was just content. Must have been cause she peed on me first thing out of the womb.

Joanna - posted on 12/23/2010

The woman who showed me the video is a doula, after her first traumatic birth experience (they held her down and broke her water because she wanted to go home and labor there, and then babys arm or shoulder broke tryingto get her out)... She became a doula to stop that sort of thing. It may be a pro-homeborth video, but there's nothing wrong with that. To me they just want parents to take into account that it's their responsibility to let their fragile child enter the world as comfortably as possible. I know too many woman who've felt they and baby were abused.

Kate CP - posted on 12/23/2010

Haven't watched it yet because I don't have time at the moment but when my daughter was born she was plopped right on my belly and wiped down there. She was suctioned and clamped on my tummy. Then they took her to weigh her, wrap her up, etc. The entire time she was being "handled" by the nurses she barely cried. I asked a couple of times "Why isn't she crying?" and the nurses said "Because she's happy? She's just fine." And then they handed her back to me. I think a lot of western hospitals are starting to adopt a more "gentle" and "parent oriented" approach to birth and delivery.

Charlie - posted on 12/23/2010

My first baby wasn't breathing and was dark purple so intervention was needed but as soon as he took a breath they placed him on my chest for as long as I wanted and he latched .

My second was straight out and on the boob and there he stayed , he didn't even bath the first night ( The familiarity of the smell helps him adjust to the new world )
They were extremely gentle and caring and respected my wishes .

I do not doubt some are a little uncaring and rough but it is not my experience .

Jenn - posted on 12/23/2010

Meh - can't say I felt much of anything. Right after my son was born he laid on me then they quickly cleaned him up a bit and wrapped him and weighed him and all that stuff, but it only took a couple of minutes - then his Daddy held onto him while they fixed me up. I certainly didn't feel like he was mishandled.

Shannen - posted on 12/23/2010

They do seem a little excessive. Apaprently though they rough babies up to stimulate them so maybe thats what they would claim they were doing? With my last birth he came out and they picked him up and put him staright on me for about half an hour. They then took him and weighed him wrapped him and did all the checks. I"m with Caitlin on this, it just seems like a pro homebirth video more than anything else.



My babies never cried like that even with all their checks.

I just finished watching it and it annoyed me more than informed me.

Caitlin - posted on 12/23/2010

Well, I don't know about it all.. I mean, sure, what they were doing may have seemed excessive, but still. I had a hospital birth, but I reached down and took both my girls and held them on ym chest right away for a few minutes, then they did the checks on them (weigh and such). The second time they suctioned her a few times, but never taking her off my chest.. It seems like a pro homebirth video, but I kind of assume that it would make some women feel bad about the way they birthed or had to birth.

Fiona - posted on 12/23/2010

Like I said, I didn't get to watch the whole thing. So it is possible that they are pushing an agenda of homebirth or anti-hospital birth. I know that they did interview a lot of doctors and nurse who do homebirths. But, to me it seems more that it is aimed at fathers and at people who are supposed to be support for birthing mothers to ensure that they are aware of the importance of their role to advocate for the mother and baby's needs in these situations. And possibly also aimed at health professionals to inspire some sensitivity. I couldn't help but be moved, not by the entire thing that I watched but certainly by the footage of the baby being checked. I was able to watch the interviews fairly impartially and from a health professional perspective, but as soon as that baby started crying with the father asking for him in the background, my mummy side kicked in and I just got emotional.



The thing is though, that it may just be 'one nurse' being 'rough with one baby' (although I think she was just following standard procedure, I also think she was a little insensitive to the family's needs/wants), this was traumatic for that family. It may not have been traumatic for everyone, but the chances are that others in the same position would and have felt the same way. To me, it seems it is an acknowledgement of how some people can (not all people and not will) be affected and how to educate yourself and arm yourself to protect against that if you are ever in that situation.

Rebecca - posted on 12/23/2010

This is just my opinion and thoughts,

There are all these warnings on the site and in the beginning of the film that we might get "emotional" or to make sure our kids were out of the room to see this horrific "abuse" (their words from the website) of babies by the medical system...or that I too might be triggered, as an adult (and this is my fav part!) about my own abuse when I was born....personally I felt none of that.

My guess is that this film was made to turn people on to home birth. When things are presented in this overblown, overwrought manner...even if I were to think one nurse was rough with one baby...I don't buy anything the film or site has to say.

So, although I think the idea that I would actually now be still traumatized by a little finger in my mouth at birth to make sure all the fluid and crap is out is ridiculous, I'm take more offence to the histronic manner in which the viewpoint is presented. If they toned it down a bit and had less people looking like the are trying hard to really "feel" the abuse of babies in hospitals, I might actually watch the whole thing...without cringing.

Good Day! - posted on 12/23/2010

I have the website up on my computer so that I can remember to watch it later tonight. I have the house to myself...can't guarantee that I'll make it through...like Fiona said, the pregnancy hormones may get to me.

Joanna - posted on 12/23/2010

I kind of wish I could've seen something like this before giving birth. I didn't have awful birthing experiences, but I wasn't informed, I thought everything they did was normal and had no effect on the babies. After watching this I wish I would've asked they be treated with more respect... I don't think I could've done a homebirth after my first delivery had complications, but it's not too much to ask that medical professionals treat our babies better. I can't imagine being treated that way now as an adult, I can't imagine how such a little being feels.

Fiona - posted on 12/23/2010

I started watching this a couple of days ago. I had to stop about 15 minutes in, it made me cry hearing that baby wail and the emotion and pleading in his fathers voice and the lack of emotion from the nurse. And then the bit where the interviewed RN says that so much of the checking process was unnecessary at the time given the baby's good colour, tone etc and the Grandmother tells the RN that it was her grandson. Too many pregnancy hormones coursing through me to deal with it all right now. From what I saw though I have to say that I agree with the opening premise that something so precious to someone (like their newborn baby) should be treated with utmost respect by any professional who is privileged enough to be working with them. I understand that hospitals and hospital employees are governed by policy and procedure, but there is also flexibility within those to respect the needs (physical and emotional) of all the humans involved and not be some automaton.

Made me glad that my son had such a gentle birth and glad that our next one is a planned homebirth. I don't know, maybe there was more to the video that I didn't see. I'll have to make the effort to finish it, but it is long.