Pastor orders flock to beat his gay son

Johnny - posted on 05/01/2012

If you are looking for a god who doesn't judge our lifestyles and is always loving, the bible is not the place to look.

Sally - posted on 05/01/2012

I spoke to my 15 year old son about this, i was interested what his view would be. His words were"what, god is all loving and excepts you for what you are" if only more people could think like this, instead of reading fairy tales about the bogey man. I did point out that not all regligions are like this.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/01/2012

Jen---No Meme, it tells you to kill the man who lieth with another man as he would a women. Semantics aside (on how men can't technically do that), it's pretty clear.

Thanks, Jen. Since I have no idea what the bible says. I do not believe nor do I agree with any of what is within. I am again amazed though, how it says one thing but then another (like you explained and then Stifler's Mum explained), how contradictory is that? Meh.

Pisses me off, that people cannot just be themselves and still believe in what they want, such as god, if that's their cup of tea.

Sally - posted on 05/01/2012

I do not believe in god as such, i believe in nature, mother earth and sprits. I have every respect for reglions that preach love and except people , understand that its their god that choose that path. I have no time for haters. To me they are not good, they are evil and twisting things to their desire. If they felt so strongly about this why not bar them from the church. I know people are going to spout the bible at me but don't we all keep on hearing how loving god's meant to be. Well not this time. To turn a pharse, they were the devil in disguise

Stifler's - posted on 04/30/2012

But then the 10 commandments say thou shalt not kill.

Jen - posted on 04/30/2012

No Meme, it tells you to kill the man who lieth with another man as he would a women. Semantics aside (on how men can't technically do that), it's pretty clear.

But thankfully most followers don't follow that bit anymore for one reason or another.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/30/2012

Sorry but that is just fucking sick! How could anyone, let alone your own father, do something like this?? My goodness, how terrbile. The poor guy and his significant other. I feel so bad and sad for them and all that are tormented for their relationship choices.



They should beat the shit out of the pastor for being hedrosexual!!



Stephanie---Does the bible clearly state beat the shit out if your son, if he is gay?? I don't think so.

Stephanie - posted on 04/30/2012

I don't agree with what this pastor did. But I do believe the bible is clear about homosexuaity being a sin.

Jen - posted on 10/08/2011

Yes, I know. It's because we're becoming rational. Not because we're following the religion more closely or more correctly.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/08/2011

But the point is Jen that people have changed enough to not do those things. With the exception of Jewish laws which require keeping Kosher and observing the Sabbath (No electricty use from dusk to dusk by Orthodox Jews) none of the laws are actually observed.

Pagan religions required sacrifices as well back a hundred thousand years ago. And we're not talking just libations to the Lord and Lady.

Jen - posted on 10/08/2011

This cartoon says it better.
http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordpress...

Jen - posted on 10/08/2011

"But Jen there are some people who practice one of 3 monotheistic religions who do ignore parts of the scriptures of their religion. That was part of the past.

Leviticus is full of things you shouldn't be doing, eatting pork, having sex with a woman during her period, not wearing mixed fibre clothing the list goes on. Yet people still play football, eat lobster and have sex when ever"

Meggy, I know they ignore them. That doesn't change the fact that if the book is true, all those things were once not only acceptable but required by the same deity.

Amie - posted on 10/06/2011

"Let's just say that intolerance and hatred are human attributes. "

A wise woman once told me "Being intolerant of intolerance is on the good side. When you are protecting others, when you are standing up against intolerance - even though you are being intolerant of their intolerance it is still the right side."

So even though what you said is true, there are still clear sides. What is right and wrong. We can tell the difference without anything or anyone telling us. Even a criminal knows they are wrong - or they wouldn't hide and try to cover their crimes.

Brittany - posted on 10/06/2011

Leviticus is very full of tons of things we should not be doing drinking, smoking, fornication, on and on and on.......but, then in the New Testament Jesus makes wine.

When those rules were set God had to set a foundation. Much let we do with our children, we set foundations. Then we grow on those foundations.

God is forgiving, Jesus is forgiving, if they were not no one would get into Heaven. If this young man believes in The Lord Jesus Christ and that is what is in his heart, that is all that matters. Jesus does not give a rat's tutu if you are gay, back, white, short, tall, fat or skinny.

What it all boils down to is what is in your heart. What kind of person are you? Do you love fellow man and help when you can? That is what it is about!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/06/2011

But Jen there are some people who practice one of 3 monotheistic religions who do ignore parts of the scriptures of their religion. That was part of the past.

Leviticus is full of things you shouldn't be doing, eatting pork, having sex with a woman during her period, not wearing mixed fibre clothing the list goes on. Yet people still play football, eat lobster and have sex when ever.

Jen - posted on 10/06/2011

"'why would a gay person want to be a member of an organised religion' because it's not fair to people who do practice monotheistic religions and wouldn't dream of attacking someone because of their sexual orientation"

Meggy, I say that specifically because all 3 religions have holy books that call the deaths of homosexuals. That is why I don't understand why they'd want to join. Yes, there are wonderfully enlightened people who would NEVER dream of being cruel or violent BUT I think it is foollish to deny what is in the book. I think attempts to get around those words is wishful thinking to make it not as bad as it is.

Ashley=) - posted on 10/06/2011

So beat them because there gay.

What sort of descent human would follow anyone's orders to hurt another human being.

No religion would never make me step out of my comfort zone, who i am.In my heart i would never harm another person for anyone or any religion.



I have left a religion because i felt there ways were not the way of person with a good heart.I believe we are equal and we treat everybody with kindness and respect.If i don't see that i will not be apart of that church or group of people who preach one thing and do another. It will not sit well with me one bit.



Shame on them not the couple.

Nobody as the right ever to harm another human being.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/06/2011

Amie, I wasn't raised to consider anyone 'bad' because of something that is beyond their control. I believe a lot of Church teachings are archaic (I can't spell today and my hubby told me to use chaotic instead!) which would be a good reason why I don't belong to a church here in BC. Why discourage birth control yet condem abortions? It makes no sense.

Of course to be fair to all religions I met some pretty damn judgmental Wiccans back in Texas who didn't quite like the fact I was only just getting into that religion. Meh, it's not like I was a member of that church near the base that wanted to protect itsself against witches, but whatever.

Let's just say that intolerance and hatred are human attributes.

Amie - posted on 10/06/2011

"Since this young man was raised in a Christian home I am sure that he is aware that he must repent and ask for forgiveness. Our God is a forgiving God. "

With all due respect Brittney, you don't know that. Judging by the reaction he received by just showing up with his partner at the church - it's unlikely they're in any kind of way a progressive church and taught him to repent to ask for forgiveness. I'm willing to bet he received a lot of heat when he did come out about his sexuality, told to suppress it, how wrong he was, etc.

Amie - posted on 10/06/2011

Meggy, I full realize that. Since it was implied that I'm as bad as homophobic person, I'm checking as often as I can and just replying as I can.

Your post drew my eye because of it's first sentence.

Now here's the thing. If these men were not a part of that church, if that "father" was not a pastor, if they were not taught (through organized religion) that the gay life style was wrong - would this violence have happened?

In some cases yes, though the majority of anti-gay BS I hear is coming from the religious. So in all likelihood, the chances are slim that without religion this "father" calling upon others to beat his son and partner probably wouldn't have happened.

Beautiful - posted on 10/06/2011

Amie T--- I don't think I can say it any better myself than how you have. I can say that discussions like this get me so livid its ridiculous... I can not stand when people try to justify their idiotic behavior ... or when people start "quoting" the bible in general really. REGARDLESS what his sexual orientation is.... ITS NO REASON TO BE BEATEN ! Period. He must repent and "ask forgiveness" really.... I think the "all loving "PASTOR" and father of this man should be the one asking forgiveness from his SON for his ignorance and intolerance.

Brittany - posted on 10/06/2011

The Catholic Superhero to the rescue!! LOL

From the Catholic Bible

Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination"

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is on their hands."

Leviticus is found in the Old Testament. One way I try to describe that the Old and New Testament can not be compared is by using parenting. In the New Testament God was a new Father. He was trying to see what would work. Much like many of us when we first have children.

Example:

When are children are toddlers they are NOT allowed to go outside without a parent. When they get to be school ages they can go outside but, must wait on the porch. When they are pre-teen we may hand them to keys and tell them to just wait in the car. When they are teens we may ask them to go ahead and start the car. When they get their learners permit we ask them to pull the car up or out of the drive way. You see we allow them a little bit more room but, at first we must express the rules and lay down a good foundation.

In the New Testament

1 Corinthians 5:9-10
"Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the kingdom of God."

The thing I like about this passage is it does not say homosexuals will not get into Heaven it says ANYONE who fornicates or practices sodomy will not get into Heaven, homosexual or not.

This one is a little long but, I wanted to share the whole section, I feel the context is important to understand.

1 Timothy 1:3-11 (entitled Warning Against False Teachers)

(3) "I urge you, as I did when I was on my way to Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach any different doctrine, (4) and not to occupy themselves with myths and endless genealogies that promote speculations rather than the divine training that is known by Faith. (5) But the aim of such instruction is love that comes from a pure heart, a good conscience, and sincere faith. (6) Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk, (7) [This, to me is the most important part of the whole Bible], DESIRING TO BE TEACHERS OF THE LAW, WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING EITHER WHAT THEY ARE SAYING OR THE THINGS ABOUT WHICH THEY MAKE ASSERTIONS.
(8) Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. (9) This means understanding that the law is laid down not for the innocent but for the lawless, and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father and mother, for murderers, (10) for nicators, sodomites, slave-traders, liars, perjurers and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching (11) that confirms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted in me."

Once again here we only have sodomites. ANYONE who acts on sodomy.

I know I am going to get the whole "How do you think gays have sex?" question. Thus, we (Christians) must repent and ask for forgiveness for our sins.

Luke 15:3-7 [Jesus Speaking]
"(3) So he told them this parable: (4) 'Which one of you, having one hundred sheep and loosing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness and go after one that is lost until he finds it? (5) When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulder and rejoices. (6) And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbours, saying to them, "Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost." (7) Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who need no repentance."

This is saying that those who sin, which every single Christian sins every single day, can ask for forgiveness and they will be forgiven. The Heavens rejoice when a sinner asks for forgiveness. God gave up his son for our sins. Now, I am not saying go out an sin till you die but, if we do not sin doesn't that mean Jesus died in vain?

If anyone wants to discuss that repeating a sin (like being homosexual or sodomy) will not be forgiven, then you need to deflate your head a little bit. We, yes including me, sin every day! All day! When I am at the store and the cashier is in a foul mood the first thing I think is " Wow they are awful, what a crappy mood" that is me being judgmental. We should not judge anyone. All I can do is ask for forgiveness.

Since this young man was raised in a Christian home I am sure that he is aware that he must repent and ask for forgiveness. Our God is a forgiving God. I will promise you that this young man has committed LESS sin then just about any other heterosexual male.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/06/2011

Amie, I was raised Catholic but I consider myself someone who follows all religions. I never called anyone out on my post, I just stated I was offended by it. I didn't state I was offended by a certain person.



Not all my experiances with organized religion have been pleasant either. My mom (I'm adopted) wasn't comfortable with the fact I was pregnant before I was married, my dad once took marriage advice from his mom and told my mom that their house was God's house (To which my mom replied, ok then let God pay the bills). My paternal grandmother who was devoutly Catholic never went out of her way to make my brother and I feel like part of her family. A priest at my parents' church found it appropriate to discuss his feelings about women who get abortions during mass. Oh and my born again Christian ex husband feels it's my fault he had an affair.



I'm not trying to change your mind and I don't have to look at myself. I've studied and practiced different religions, I do hospice care. My husband is an Atheist and I married him because he's a wondeful caring person even if he doesn't completely agree with my on all aspects of my upbringing.



The assault that happened to these men, yes that was horrible. But should all followers of a certain religion be held under the same catergory as the people who commited the act? No they shouldn't.

Amie - posted on 10/06/2011

Oh I will correct myself.



In my first post I said the deeply religious. That still is not attacking any specific person though. It is classifying a certain group of people. Who do exist and do cause a lot of harm. Whether people want to admit that or not.



So I will repeat part of my last sentence: "if you are inferring that from what I type, then look at yourself and figure out why. "

Amie - posted on 10/06/2011

Keep reading Meggy, you'll get to the part where I posted about not everyone being that way.

Taking anecdotal evidence on what you've witnessed does not change my mind either.

I've taken my own anecdotal evidence and made it my truth. I do not like organized religion, it is entirely because of my experiences with it both within and outside my family.

Here's the difference - I don't try to convince or even think my way is the right way. It's right **for me** and there are many many religious people (extremists or not) who can not and do not live that way.

I never attacked a single person, I attacked organized religion. There are people who are a part of that organization that get right fired up because they think I am talking about them - if you are inferring that from what I type, then look at yourself and figure out why.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/06/2011

I don't appreciate people saying 'this is why I'm against organised religion' or 'why would a gay person want to be a member of an organised religion' because it's not fair to people who do practice monotheistic religions and wouldn't dream of attacking someone because of their sexual orientation. My (maternal) grandparents attended a church back in Rochester where the priest was officiating same sex marriages. Of course he was excommunicated later, but that should show people that not all practitioners of certain religions feel the way that these people who participated in the beatings did.

Beautiful - posted on 10/06/2011

This is just SOME of my issues with religious people... first off it is sickening for anybody to do that but really.. a pastor!? Hes supposed to be teaching tolerance,equality acceptance and love, yes, but only to his standards.
So the plan was to "beat him straight"... like that can even be done! The day and age we live in... there are SOOOO many things going on, more important than "who is taking who to bed" Seriously its simply ignorance and stupidity. I hope that "pastor" finds himself in a nice cool cell after this.

Jen - posted on 10/06/2011

"Where in the bible does it say to bash or persecute gays? "

Leviticus.
I've personally never understood why a gay person woudl want to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew when that religion has always held them in such severe disregard and called for their death.

Yes yes, I know, they don't do that anymore. But they did and they did it.

Jen - posted on 10/06/2011

You know, I have to wonder about this story just a bit. People generally don't go from sweet, calm and sane to utter bonkerooney in the matter of minutes unless they're mentally ill to begin with. There's NO way this poor young man did not know his father was virulently against gays. I just wonder at why he woudl bring his boyfriend there. Had he just come out to his DAd?

I'm not defending the pastor (ha - not much of one) nor am I blaming the victim but something tells me there's more to it than just this.

Amie - posted on 10/05/2011

Oh and I never said anything about advocating for abuse aspect because Krista cleared that up quite nicely. =)

Amie - posted on 10/05/2011

"Amie and Shea your prejudice against religious people is as bad as homophobic prejudice.



I am what you would call a "deeply religious person" and I think that the behaviour of these people is totally unacceptable and un-christian."



No, it's not. It's not even close to the same thing. On here I can voice as verbally as I want how much organized religion disgusts me and why. I won't do that in person to my friends and family because I know it would hurt them. Those words would cut deep and I am a kind enough person to keep my views to myself. A few do know but not because I've lambasted them.



I have seen more than enough "good christian folk" who can not keep their mouths shut, who do not care who they hurt, who are assholes and don't care - because they are "good christian folk and just spreading God's word" - my ass.



Just because you (Sarah) feel you are devout enough to denounce anothers faith - does not mean that the person who is claiming they are a christian is not destroying your faith for the millions around the world who feel as I do. These people are the ones who give everyone a bad name - yes they are extremists but here's the rub: If organized religion was not something people went to, if everyone could understand you can be devout,spiritual and good WITHOUT religion - our world would be a better place. But no, people can not do that. They need to have someone tell them that a book, written thousands of years ago by men is the word of God.



No thank you.



I also fully understand there are some people who are religious (they are the majority) do not act like the fanatics or are secure with their faith. Those people do not get offended by me, they can read my words and know why I feel the way I do.

Teresa - posted on 10/05/2011

That is way beyond disturbing. :(

Kate - posted on 10/05/2011

What they are is DEEPLY disturbed!

Krista - posted on 10/05/2011

Amie and Shea your prejudice against religious people is as bad as homophobic prejudice.

Unless Amie and Shea are advocating for the brutal beating of religious folk, unless Amie and Shea are advocating for religious people to have fewer rights than they do, unless Amie and Shea think that religious people should not be around children....

Then no, it's not as bad. Nowhere near it.

Minnie - posted on 10/05/2011

Yeah, I know plenty of what many would consider 'deeply' religious people and this is not it.

They ARE fanatics.

Becky - posted on 10/05/2011

And Emma, it doesn't, anywhere!

Becky - posted on 10/05/2011

This is horrible! My gosh, I don't even want to spank my children for doing something that is actually harmful, let alone beat the shit out of them simply for being who they are!
I don't know that I would call myself deeply religious, I don't like to think of myself as religious. But I am a Christian and I do hold my faith very deeply. But I would never, ever, ever treat my child, or anyone else, in this way!!
I would say they are fanatical and slightly insane, rather than just deeply religious.

Kate - posted on 10/05/2011

You know, what would have been really cool would be if the remaining Grace Fellowship church-goers had stepped in and defended / protected this gay couple... where the hell were they?

Stifler's - posted on 10/05/2011

Where in the bible does it say to bash or persecute gays?

Sarah - posted on 10/05/2011

Amie and Shea your prejudice against religious people is as bad as homophobic prejudice.

I am what you would call a "deeply religious person" and I think that the behaviour of these people is totally unacceptable and un-christian.

Erin - posted on 10/05/2011

Yeah this is why I hate any and all organised religion. I don't want anything to do with a movement that can motivate people to act like this :(

Kate - posted on 10/05/2011

It seriously boggles my mind - I mean what do you comment on first? The fact that this is a pastor behaving in such an UN-Christian way, the fact that this is his father, and uncle...??? Or the fact that these 'righteous' men find it okay to (plain and simple) commit a crime?!!!
The people who do things like this (and people who are ashamed of their children who are gay) should be ashamed of THEMSELVES!!! Not the people who are actually being *honest* about who they ARE!!
Pittman's father should be in jail - not behind a pulpit. This sort of thing is also why I can't go to church - too much holier than thou shit going on!!! I'd rather just be a good person thanks!
I'm sure I haven't put in enough swear words here...!!!

Brittany - posted on 10/05/2011

I am not shocked, honestly.

Even though I am Catholic I could care less if all three of my children turn out to be homosexual. Does it really matter?

The Bible (in the Old Testament) does say Homosexuality is a sin but, it also says fornication is a sin.

Through many years of soul searching, research and personal experience I can tell you without even thinking twice that God does not care if you are gay. Jesus does not care. They want you (us) to ALL be happy and loved. If Joe loves Bob, then Joe loves Bob and Bob makes Joe happy, therefore this pleases Jesus. We are meant to be happy not, to kill each other.

I would never dare turn my back on my child! For any reason (ok well.....if they did something like rape a child I am sure I would be pretty pissed).

I can not imagine turning my back on my child because, they "come out". That is ridiculousness.

I love my children gay or not gay, blue hair or orange hair, male or female, short or tall.....

Speaking of which time for a haircut for Caoleb school pictures tomorrow.

Tania - posted on 10/05/2011

Its disgusting.



A couple of weeks ago Anderson Cooper did a piece about bullying and the g GLBT community. An American politician...soory I don't remember his name or where he was from....basically stated that if someone strongly believes that what the bible says is true then they have a right to defend that belief. This was in regards to bullying.



I don't understand people like this. I just don't and ir breaks my heart.

Shea - posted on 10/05/2011

Okay wow...and as sad as it makes me I'm not surprised. I won't go any further except to say I am in total agreement with Amie T and in regards to her first 3 sentences, right on I couldn't have worded my feelings any better!

Amie - posted on 10/05/2011

This is why I have such a problem with any deeply religious people. Any of them. No thanks.



They would easily turn on their kids and I've seen it happen in my in laws family. My husband's cousin is gay. Now most of the family was very accepting and just took it in stride when he came out. Most of them are sane. His (the cousins) mother is not. The aunts told him - if you want peace, do not tell her. He ended up telling her because he didn't believe them. She went around the bend and then some. She "disowned" him, she refused to come to my SIL's wedding because he was coming, she even told everyone how ashamed she was - that it reflects poorly on her because he chose to be gay. =/ I wanted to throttle her.



Kind and loving people my ass. If you can turn your back on family or friends because of something like this - you are neither kind nor loving.

Krista - posted on 10/05/2011

Yeah, I just don't GET it. I look at my little boy and I love him with all my heart. I'd take a bullet for that kid without even thinking about it.

I just can't understand how a parent could hold such hatred towards their son, simply for being who he is.

Ooo - posted on 10/05/2011

He can call himself a pastor if he wants, but I don't consider anyone who commits a violent hate crime to be a pastor. I view him and his helpers as violent criminals and they should be treated as such.

JuLeah - posted on 10/05/2011

Mob mentality - we really are sheep. Every one there ought to be charged. Those that choose to hit and those that choose to stand by and do nothing - really people, has no one seen the Accused?

The officers ought to go down too.

But really, it will be brushed under the rug ...

I don't actually, in my heart advocate violence as it begets more violence ... I know that, but ....

Edcuation and a backbone is what this community needs

Maybe it would help if they were on country wide media and shamed ... if they could see the millions that don't believe as they believe, don't watch Glen Beck, don't listen to Fox News, don't fear and hate to this degreee ...

In my hometown they had a week long retreat for religious leaders and leaders in the lgbt community .... AMAZING

They had professionals there directing conversation and excerises ... eye opening and amazing

Angela - posted on 10/05/2011

Speechless!