Prayer

Sarah - posted on 10/20/2009 ( 29 moms have responded )

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One of my friends posted this on facebook, it was written by a kid in Ohio...



New school prayer



Now I sit me down in school

Where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God

Finds mention of Him very odd.



If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow

Becomes a Federal matter now



Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom thing..

The law is specific, the law is precise..

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.



For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all.

In silence alone we must meditate,

God's name is prohibited by the state.



We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks...

We can carry smut, but not the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.



We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.



We can get our condoms and birth controls,

Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,

No word of God must reach this crowd.



It's scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school's a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot; My soul please take!



Amen





Thoughts????

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Isobel - posted on 10/21/2009

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Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom thing...

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks...

We can carry smut,

..the author implies that "different hair is offensive..should it be?"



We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks, perhaps he should define"dress like freaks"...sounds pretty angry to me



We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King...but keeping her baby is the "christian thing to do...haven't you heard, so long as they are married at 17, who cares right?



Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles. reading Harry Potter AND learning about native culture...how dare they?!?



first of all...this is written by an angry parent, not a child...second of all the anger issues ARE about the fact that not every conforms to christian ideals.

Natalie - posted on 10/21/2009

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Here's a thought: my neice and nephews still say "under God" in the pledge every morning. As far as I know, my high school still has a CSA (Christian Student Athletes) chapter that met on school grounds and had a faculty sponsor. They did when I graduated in 2004, after the first time I saw this ridiculous load of tripe. And as far as I have experienced, teen pregnancy is regularly a direct result of lack of education and availability of birth control. Everything in this poem is either an outright lie, or relates to personal choices other people make that don't actually affect the writer of the poem. Whoever wrote this poem can shut up and send their kids to a private school to be indoctrinated all they want.

Isobel - posted on 10/20/2009

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I agree, I think ALL religions should be taught in school...in a philosophy type of class and I think that students should be encouraged, there to discuss their beliefs (if they want to).
oh, and about that "smut" thing...I don't know what school you guys went to but I got sent home for wearing a Tshirt that had a picture of a guy with no shirt in high school. (while I now see that it probably all that appropriate, it was hardly pornography)

Esther - posted on 10/22/2009

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First of all I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that a kid wrote this. Second of all, I'm with Natalie. It is utter nonsense. You can pray, you can carry your bible, you can speak about your faith, you can put the 10 commandments on your notebook, whatever. You just cannot impose your religion on others in a PUBLIC school that is supposed to be open to people of all faiths and no faith at all. And the great nation "under god" is a recent addition, it was added as an anti-communism gesture.

Charlie - posted on 10/20/2009

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Laura i agree , all religions should be taught not in religious way but a historical , cultural or philosophy type class , broadening their knowledge of the world , it's people ,cultures ,religions would only do good and promote acceptance and reduce fear of the unknown .

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Kate CP - posted on 10/26/2009

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Yet again more proof of why I have lost all faith in the human race. When we as parents teach our children this intolerance crap it just makes for a whole new generation of assholes and idiots. I hate people. I love my dogs more every day. :P

[deleted account]

I think there is some truth to this poem. I recently listened to a case where children were suspended from school for praying in the dining room. Schools vary from district to district on what they will tolerate. Some schools even celebrate Christmas and easter if they think they can get away with it. It depends where you are in America.

Evelyn - posted on 10/21/2009

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Anger issues directed at anyone who's different?? Did we read the same poem? It seems to me that the AUTHOR feels as if he or she is the one who's different. I'm just shaking my head at the responses to this one. I think I'm gonna refrain from commenting on this any further.

Sarah - posted on 10/21/2009

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Quoting Jenny:

I would have LOVED to attend a religious studies course in high school.


I took RS in Senior School, loved every minute of it and went on to do Philosophy in College.



I'm not at all religious, but i went to a C of E (Church of England) junior school, and we said prayers every morning in assembly and before we ate our lunch ('for what we about to receive, may the lord make us truly thankful' how's that for total recall!) At that age, 8-11, to me, it was just something we said you know? I didn't really even see it as a 'prayer' it was just words to me. We were taught the bible, but it wasn't rammed down our throats (for want of a better phrase) it was more like stories you know?



I took RS in Senior School which gave me a basic understanding of other religions, (tho i remember being taught some in Junior School too) we also looked into social issues, abortion, euthanasia etc.



Philosophy in college, was a lot to do with whether you can prove or disprove God's exsistence, different philosphers views etc.



In regards to the 'prayer' posted in this thread, it seems to be a piece purely for reaction. No-one can stop anyone from praying......i could hold a conversation and pray in my head if i chose to. I suppose i could get down on my knees in the street and pray if i chose to, i don't think i'd be carted off for it. 



As for society thinking it's ok for teen pregnancies or whatever......what a load of crap.



And the dying of the hair thing......that's just stupid......plus, when i went to school, you would be suspended for dying your hair green, you wouldn't be suspended for praying!!!



:)

Jenny - posted on 10/20/2009

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There's nothing wrong with teaching critical thinking skills in kids, it is not about conformity. It's not Stedfordish at all about keeping religion out of schools aside from a religious studies course (as an aside the Stepfordish people I know are all church goers). I have no problem teaching religion, I have big problems preaching or marketing religion in a school. Corporate advertising is already banned in my kids schools, church advertising is too. So long as you are having a personal experience with your god and keeping it at that level there is no issue.



PS Not having faith does not mean you are losing out on the magic of life. I have plenty of awe and wonder in my world, I just don't find it in the bible. Being an athiest is not a boring and drab way to be.

Sarah - posted on 10/20/2009

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I see where you are coming from Laura and Jenny, but I also fear a society where we try so hard to keep things out of schools and the public that everyone becomes even more...grr can't think of the right word I'm tired...I guess the best way to describe what I'm thinking is more like sheep, or Stepford Wives where everyone acts the same and starts losing their individual faith (or lack of because to me thats okay to have also).



Dunno if that makes sense, again its been a LONG day :-)

Jenny - posted on 10/20/2009

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I agree Laura, if you want to pray to your god that is fine. Outside of that, keep it out of public schools.

Isobel - posted on 10/20/2009

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let's see...how do I phrase this anonymously and still make it clear...The problem I would have with "student run" groups in school, is that there is no adult to ensure that the word is not being massively distorted. Let's say there were a crazy lady who is storing artillery in the basement, because Obama is Hitler and trying to indoctrinate our children against us, and her and her followers believe that a new way of shopping is actually "the sign of the beast" and heralds the end of the world...her child walks into my child's school and wants to start a "christian prayer group". I wouldn't want to imagine the final outcome.

[deleted account]

This has been circulating for a long time - can't tell you how many times I've been spammed with this poem over the years. Of course, the biggest problem with it is that pretty much everything in it isn't true. The Bible isn't outlawed, kids are welcome to pray as often as they want (as long as they don't disrupt a class), kids can carry Bibles (and even give them out), and the Ten Commandments and Scripture can be discussed in schools (as long as they aren't being preached). I have a hard time taking serious something saying "God's name is prohibited by the state" when our national motto is "In God We Trust". The whole thing seems pretty silly.

Sarah - posted on 10/20/2009

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I remember hearing about the case when I was working on my teaching degree, but couldn't remember the specifics and couldn't remember what the ruling was on it...

[deleted account]

Quoting Sarah:

Sharon, I completely agree with what you are saying, but wondered on your opinion of student run groups...



More power to them :-)  In my School Law class, this was known as The Flagpole Case (I bet you can even find it through Google- Flagpole school prayer)  A group of kids wanted to gather around the flagpole BEFORE school hours officially began for a morning prayer.  Well, their prayer group got bigger and bigger, and the original intent of morning prayer got out of hand.  Too many kids on campus unsupervised, large groups of kids gathering, not participating in the prayer, rather jsut 'hanging out'.  The case went to the Supreme Court level, I think.  I'll go look up my old notes.  But, it was perfectly legal and I applaud the student led part of it.  Now had a teacher been a part of the group BEFORE the contracted day (let's say 6:45 am and the contracted day begins at 7:15) , that would be perfectly legal as well. 

Sarah - posted on 10/20/2009

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Sharon, I completely agree with what you are saying, but wondered on your opinion of student run groups...

[deleted account]

Well teachers sign contracts staing that they agree to and abide by the policies and procedures of the district. It's all on-line, and I can sort through the right link and post it. Teachers cannot just start up a club without approval. Teacher sponsored religious organizations are not allowed, even if all religions are included. (Which in this case, it was a variety of Christian-based religions, nothing else) No one said she was hiding behind personal faith. If the Board really wanted to be nasty over a teacher-sponsored religious group they could legally dismiss the teacher on grounds of breach of contract. My friend requested permission for this group, she was denied. She found a loophole-great! Sorry for the reality check, but praying to "Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour" is NOT inclusive of all religions, and truly does not belong in a school setting.

Sarah - posted on 10/20/2009

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and that is representative of why I think they should only be student run :-)

[deleted account]

At the middle school where I used to teach, a teacher (and good friend of mine) wanted to have a prayer/bible study club. All inclusive of anyone who wanted to participate. I love this teacher to death and her intentions were good. Even the Principal was on board with the prayer/bible study club. Again, love the principal too and this year I even teach his youngest daughter! I'll also state that I live in a religious area-lots of Mormons and Christians. However, the Board stated that the TEACHER could not be a club sponsor because the club was viewed as a religious club, and the teacher was contracted as an employee, therefore violating church & state. However, she was able to get through a loophole and invite several religious leaders in the area to be the club sponsors, and they just used her classroom. She was able to still participate in the club without acknowledging her as a club sponsor. So while many teachers may wish to create this type of a club, they are also representative of their educational institution and this causes a conflict. At least I hope this can clarify what I know about schools in Arizona and the law. Does it happen more often than we hear about? Of course! All it takes is one angry kid or parent.

Sarah - posted on 10/20/2009

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I don't necessarily agree with everything said in this poem, but I do like certain parts of it.... I think it really shows a bit about our society during the middle, I think it rings truthful that it is more acceptable to be pregnant and high school and unmarried and have smut than be religious, which is sad to me. (I don't know if i'm really explaining this right, my thoughts are kinda muddled today!) But I do somewhat agree with you ladies that religion shouldn't be involved in schools other than by students praying privately. However if a group of students takes it upon themselves to form a prayer group, regardless of their religion, I think that should be allowed. (As long as it is voluntary and student organized, not teacher)

JL - posted on 10/20/2009

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You can pray all you want in school. It is not illegal to bow your head in silence and pray. It is just prayer cannot be a school sancitioned event and it you cannot compel others to participate in the prayer. If you want religious instruction involved then there are PLENTY of private schools that provide that and there is home schooling.



How about more parents become involved with their schools and their kids instead of trying to dictate their personal moral and religious ideals on the rest of us. Then again is it not christian conservatives whom I hear argue the most about how they don't want the schools or the government teaching their kids moral and personal lessons..that they should be the ones to do this as parents.



As far as I am concerned I send my kids to school to get an education not to be indoctrinated with any type of religious instruction. When they are older I hope they go to a school that offers classes on religion and in that case I will inspire and insist that they take those courses. And last time I checked every school I went to and the schools my kids have attended all have had dress codes that prohibit kids from dressing outrageously and inappropriately. In fact, more and more school systems have turned toward uniforms. Schools also prohibit cursing and kids are punished for inappropriate language. It just sounds like this kid goes to a really crappy school which has nothing to do with the lack of the Ten Commandments being posted on the walls.

[deleted account]

Seen this one too. And I share the same opinion as the others. This is silly. If a kid wants to pray, let's say before a test, fine. I've had kids pray before a test in my classroom. There's a huge difference between personal prayer and preaching to others. My God/faith might be different from your God/faith who might be different from Joey's God/faith. Leave religion out of the schools.

Sara - posted on 10/20/2009

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Agree with Natalie! No one is stopping anyone from praying in school.



What pisses me off about this is that this poem (and advocates of school prayer) assumes that all children are Christian. Last I checked, religious freedom was a right in this country and not just in terms of Christianity, but of all religions.



Oh, and nice and completely unnecessary reference to school shootings. Give me a flippin' break. Is nothing sacred or can everything be bastardized to suit the right-wing, conservative christian agenda?

Natalie - posted on 10/20/2009

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I've seen this before and I still think it's stupid. You can pray in school all you want, you just can't make anyone else.

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