Project Prevention

Erin - posted on 03/01/2010

I don't think this decision should be made while someone is on drugs or coming off of drugs...in those situations I think they are almost being taken advantage of because they can not think clearly or are in a good frame of mind to make such an important decision like that!



I'm not necessarily against forced sterilization...I don't think pedaphiles need kids, and frankly I hate men that go popping out more then they could ever imagine to pay for, espeically when it also turns out to be some piece of crap that is in and out of jail and has 13 kids by x amount of different moms...I think they are all perfect candidates to be forced not to have kids...I also think that someone of certain mental health capacities, ones who could never take care of their child and said child would end up a ward of the state..., they would also be good candidates...but I also think that there should be tests for people to have kids, because OMG plenty of people who should NEVER have kids do and its a damn shame!



Maybe giving women something like Depo or IUD would be good...and the male equivalent in those cases...? IDK...I just know that letting them be a drain on society isn't really an option that I would support, regadless of whose rights would be ignored for the later

Isobel - posted on 02/26/2010

Sterilization can always be reversed. I would have no problem with paying them to get sterilized, it almost guarantees that they will not have children until they clean themselves up.

Erin - posted on 02/12/2010

I wouldn't have a problem with a program like this, even though I am completely against forced sterilisation. As Michelle said, even addicts have free will and the right to choose, so if they choose the cash, that's their decision to make. And if it means fewer babies are born to into dysfunction and danger than all the better.

Working in a GP surgery in a suburb with lots of drug and mental health issues (unfortunately they seem to go hand in hand), I see the ramifications of addicts having children every shift. I can honestly say I don't know a single one that has cleaned up their act - there was one, but I saw her 2 weeks ago and she's back on it again. I also used to know a woman who was a speed freak, was injecting with her 2 kids in the house, and had at least 4 abortions that I know of. She is a PRIME candidate for something like this. She has no interest in being clean. She has no interest in her children and routinely left them home alone. How she still has custody of them I will never know - once I started to find out the truth about what she was doing I, and several others, reported her to DOCS.

?? - posted on 02/11/2010

Thanks Michelle, that really does mean a lot!! I am very proud of myself :) I've been clean since August 11, 2001!



And I completely understand that it's not possible for many addicts -- I think that there's no harm in offering one more time though. I think that it should be a stipulation.



"I will give you $XXXX to become sterilized -- all you have to do is go to rehab and stay there for 60 days, give it an honest go. If you are able to become sober in 60 days, you will get the option of $XXXX to become sterilized go on your way whatever way you want to go -- or you can continue with rehab if you think you can be successfully sober!" Or they can just take the $$ get the sterlization / birth control and know that the option is always there for rehab!

Michelle - posted on 02/11/2010

I see where you guys are coming from Jo and Jocelyn, I totally do. But in the article she said that many of her clients have been to rehab over and over and over. She's not requiring total sterilization, she does allow long term BC like an IUD. No one is forcing these people to go there. She's just saying that if you are willing to do something like this for a couple hundred bucks, then she'll pay it. If they regret it later, personally, I think that's their OWN decision they'll have to live with, just like the rest of the decisions they've made. Maybe for this program there should be a requirement of having failed to stay sober so many times, like three or more or something.



I think it's a little sad that she's lost that much faith in humanity, but then I guess so have I. Maybe those people will regret it later, but at least they won't regret having a bunch of kids that have life-long health issues because of their parents' bad decisions.



I lost a half-brother because his mother was using meth her whole pregnancy.

If she had been sterilized after she'd failed to stay sober THREE times, that would never have happened.



I have a half brother who will always have the mental capacity of a 9 year old and has Tourettes. I have two half sisters who are in foster care. I have one half sister and one step sister who were molested. All of these children were hurt by the same man. If he had been sterilized after he had been to rehab even ONCE and not stayed sober, none of these kids would have been hurt.



Jo and Jocelyn, I commend you and am SO happy for you for staying sober; what a great goal that you've achieved! That shows such strength of character. But the sad truth is that sobriety is not something that many hardened addicts ever achieve. You are the exception to the rule.

?? - posted on 02/11/2010

That's my issue too Jocelyn -- I don't think I would have took the money, I probably would have told them to get fucked though -- but I know that the majority of the addicts I know would say "How much money ? YES ! Whatever ! Where do I sign ?!" but they are now good people, have beautiful children and are decent human beings.

Which is why I think rehab would be a better offer.

Jocelyn - posted on 02/11/2010

Nope, because when I was an addict and someone had offered me money to do something that was so obviously "not going to affect me right now" I would have taken the money. And then I wouldn't have my two gorgeous kids. There are definitely better ways to deal with addicts than sterilization. Put the money toward court ordered rehab and clean living houses. Or offer free long term birth control, like an IUD.

?? - posted on 02/11/2010

I think that each person should be offered REHAB & then money if they finish a 60 day treatment center. That way they are offered the help, and the money as an incentive - if they finish the 60 day treatment they can choose to continue with sobriety or they can choose the money. By that time they will be given A LOT of opportunity to deal with their problems, know that they have the support and they will be in the position to be able to make a 'long term' decision. If they STILL feel that they can't be a productive member of society, they can take the money, get snipped/tied and go about their life as they please - sober or not.

Sara - posted on 02/11/2010

Having had experience with drug addicts and their addicted babies in the past, my first reaction is "absolutely". I don't agree with mandatory sterilization either, but some people shouldn't be allowed to have children...it's a privilege to be a parent, not a right.

Mary - posted on 02/11/2010

I understand your view, Cathy...and as I said, seeing stuff like this first hand has hardened me a bit to the realities of these people's lives. The sad truth is, the vast majority of the people in question will NOT turn their lives around. And, as we all know, no method of birth control is 100% effective....not even tubal ligations and vasectomies, although they are better than most. More imprtantly, they require no maintenance or follow-up, which is a key factor with this particular population. The other truth is that, for the most part, we are not necessarily talking about people who have not already had children (that are not being cared for by them).



As for their vulnerability...again, I have witnessed one to many times the manipulative, destructive behavior of these addicts to have a whole lot of sympathy for their reproductive rights or future. I realize that they are not necessarily inherently bad people, and that they are controlled by whatever their substance of choice is. I believe that they are deserving of help and support to overcome their addiction. BUT...should they turn their life around, my guess is they will have MANY regrets about their actions, not just "selling" the right to have a child. At least this way, they will not regret having done damage to an innocent life they inadvertently created. All addicts live with regrets, and must accept consequences for their actions. Sterilizing them prevents an innocent child from being another one of the victims of their substance abuse.

Cathy - posted on 02/11/2010

I've got mixed feelings on this. While I agree that it could be a positive thing to prevent children being born with numerous medical conditions as a result of there mothers substance abuse, I also worry thats is taking advantage of a person when they are at there most vunerable. They aren't thinking about the long term consequences only about the money and there next fix. If one day they do turn there lives around, how are they going to feel about selling their right to have a child.

I'm more pro to the idea of using long term contraception such as an implant.

Alison - posted on 02/11/2010

I think it's a good thing if it prevents children from being born addicted to something with parents who can't take care of them. The article said that they are targeting people who have been given chance after chance to get clean. One example was of a woman who had 13 children taken away from her. I think childrens rights should come before adult human rights anyday. I don't see how it's dictating who can have kids, It's still their choice to take the money or not.

Mary - posted on 02/11/2010

As someone who routinely sees these pregnant drug addicts, I'm all for ANY method that would prevent them from getting pregnant. I think what most normal people miss is that these are women who do not care for themselves, much less a baby. They don't get any type of prenatal care, and typically come in, and blow out a premature baby with multiple health issues. They are in no physical, mental, or emotional shape to care for a HEALTHY newborn, much less one with special needs. Problem is, they will get to take that child home, until it can be PROVEN and documented that they are an unfit parent. By that, I mean harm has come to this child. Even if they have had previous children removed from their custody, they get another shot with each subsequent child. It's ludicrous!



So yes, I fully support offering an incentive to motivate these people to voluntarily give up their ability to reproduce. I understand why mandatory sterilization can never be implemented, but if we could encourage these people (men & women) to take effective measures to ensure that they will not "accidentally" get pregnant, well, it's in the best interests of them, any possible offspring, and society as a whole. I may have not believed this 15 years ago, but all this time in L&D has greatly impacted my views.