question for those opposed to homosexuality based on the bible

Rosie - posted on 04/01/2011 ( 343 moms have responded )

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why do you follow these more than questionable parts of scripture, but not other parts of the bible, that call for women to not speak in church, or get divorced, you can't be even a 10th generation descendant of an illigitimate child or else you are forbidden to enter the assembly of the lord.

if you are a man without testicles (born that way, cancer, or some funky body modification, doesn't matter) you are forbidden as well from entering the assembly of the lord. in timothy it states you are not to wear jewelry or non modest clothes or hairstyle if you are a woman. hope nobody here wears stylish clothes or their wedding rings, or actually dyes their hair-GASP!!

i've asked this question numerous times in debates over homosexuality, and it never gets answered. i'd like to know how you rationalize your objection to homosexuality, and it's "sin" yet clearly don't abide by the bibles other teachings? could it be because your pastor, or priest or whatever you have, has told you over and over again HOW to interpret the bible? how do they explain how you can talk in church, and why that isn't a sin? why do you BELIEVE them?

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Krista - posted on 04/01/2011

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I don't believe that gay people were born that way.

So when did you choose to be straight, Rosa?

Lady Heather - posted on 04/04/2011

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"However, a one-woman & one-man relationship for life produces no STD's."

A one woman and one woman relationship for life produces no STDs.

A one man and one man relationship for life produces no STDs.

Or do you think gay people are born with HIV?

Esther - posted on 04/04/2011

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I fell behind over the weekend in keeping up with this thread and I'm kind of bummed about that now because there are so many issues to be addressed, but now I'm about 50 posts behind. Oh well, here are a few anyway. On why the word marriage matters, here is (once again) a link to an article that I believe explains that very eloquently. I've posted it many times before on DM, but for those who've never read it before, please do: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl...,9171,1101040216-588877,00.html

Then there was the argument that issues like jewelry, kosher food etc. should be viewed in the context of the time and culture in which the bible was written. But as I (or rather the reverend at my local church) explained in an earlier post, that exact same argument DOES go for homosexuality too. It is not at all clear that what the bible refers to (that has since been translated with the term "homosexuality") has anything to do with what we now understand homosexuality to be, especially when we're talking about 2 consenting committed adults.

Now for churches being "forced" to marry gay couples if gay marriage is legalized - I would be as opposed to that as I am for homosexuals to have the right to marry. I'm from Holland and in Holland no church has the right to marry anyone. They only have the right to bless a marriage that had already been performed by the state. So when you are religious in Holland, you always have 2 ceremonies. One at city hall where you are actually married and another in church where your wedding is blessed. If you're not religious, you're done after ceremony #1. I think that's how it should be. Marriage should be a secular institution open to all consenting adults. If you seek God's blessing for your union, you can do that separately and each church can decide for themselves if doing so is in line with their particular believe system.

Sal - posted on 06/08/2011

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no wonder you girls feel so free to sit there and commit the sin that is judging others....you think your sins have been aid for by someone else....maybe if you had to pay for your own sins you might think twice before getting on your high horse and bad mouthing others.... so not only is it not your fault you are homophobic biggots (it is in the bible after all!!!!!) you don;t even have to face up and take the responisibility for your actions....you seem so weak and spinless hiding behind the words of the god you claim to love and use his words to banish othes living on earth as outcast, criminals and deviants...who gives you that right, if only god can judge why the hell do you take it upon your selves to do so,why let them have peace on earth if they are going to have ethernal damnation anyway

Johnny - posted on 04/02/2011

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I've written and rewritten posts on this topic, but I can't seem to get my feelings across just right. This is one of those issues that I am simply just intolerant on and I am actually proud to own that. I can never except in any way people discriminating against someone for who they are born as, what they look like, who they love, how they feel or who they fuck. I don't care what excuse people give. No excuse is good enough for me.

If you think homosexuality is a sin, then don't be gay. Simple as that. Leave everyone else alone and stop trying to put your religious beliefs, bigoted ideas and hatreds into law. I don't care if you "love the sinner but hate the sin". If you are actively seeking or involved in anyway in limiting any people's rights to equal treatment, you aren't actually really loving the sinner. You are forcing your own personal beliefs on others, there's no love in that.

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Sal - posted on 06/10/2011

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i've seen platyus playing in the wild, and they are beautiful and perfect....weird but work surpurbly in their environment, so lets leave the dear little monotreme out of this nasty debate....lol, for the record i think that you are born with your sexuality, i've seen little boys in my sons class at age 4 who were raving queens, beautiful, bitchy little queens, their footy playing dads trying desperatly to get them to kick the ball and they want to play with the girls and the barbi dolls, born that way....

Amanda - posted on 06/10/2011

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you're right Nikki, i looked up that scripture on bible.com and that's the translation that i got...i usually read only the KJV version. I must of not had it on KJV version. :)

Minnie - posted on 06/10/2011

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The Bible also says that a woman should not wear that which pertaineth to a man (Deut 22:5). It claims THAT to be an abomination too. Am I an abomination for wearing pants? Apparently pants are which pertaineth to a man in western culture, no?

Anyways, I believe that a lot of the practices referred to as abominations in the OT were referring to those which were performed in conjunction with pagan worship. It's a common theme in the NT as well, with women being instructed to keep their heads 'covered' because of the practice of shaving the head amongst female pagan worshippers.

Kate CP - posted on 06/10/2011

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Jaimie: That's assuming (and I believe rightfully so) that homosexuality is something you are born into, not a conscious choice that you make as an adult. Many Christians who think homosexuality is a sin believe it's a choice a person makes and thus it goes against God's plan. Because, apparently, God doesn't make mistakes.

To that I say...you ever seen a platypus?

Jaime - posted on 06/10/2011

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I keep circling back to the idea that 'God created us in His image'. And if that is truly the case, then this entire argument from the Christian or otherwise religious standpoint is moot. If God did, infact, create us in his image, then that includes homosexuality. If that's not the case, then the entire Bible is contradictory from chapter one and cannot be held to the standard of being a factual, historically-accurate document or a guidebook for human nature.

Kate CP - posted on 06/10/2011

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How can you say that the bible hasn't been influenced by man when:
a) it was written BY a man and NOT the hand of God
b) It has been translated and re-translated so many times throughout the centuries that original words and phrases are no longer found in modern day speech
c) it's interpreted a thousand different way by a thousand different people.

How do you KNOW that YOUR way of reading the bible is the absolute right way and that the millions of others who read it and find a different meaning are wrong? It just doesn't make sense to me to put THAT MUCH stock in an ancient book that really has no footing in modern day society.

Krista - posted on 06/10/2011

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Exactly. And the Bible is the absolute truth.

How do we know? Because the Bible says so.

Amanda - posted on 06/10/2011

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all i did was show where the scripture was written in the Bible. I didn't make the rules, God did and it simply said that homosexuals would not inherit the kingdom of God.

Johnny - posted on 06/09/2011

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"i think some people should just occationally pick up someother reading material rather than the bible,"

Hallelujah!

Sal - posted on 06/09/2011

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oh and going to bible study does no more to make you a good person than going to a gay bar makes you a bad one, i'd take a nice poof over a nasty christian any day!!!

Sal - posted on 06/09/2011

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i think some people should just occationally pick up someother reading material rather than the bible, great book and all but if it is the only thing that you read, take advice from and get your education ofrom you are going to sound like the narrow minded biggots that it seems you are aiming to be, get out, live a little,pick up the latest who weekly have a little light hearted reading and get your heads out in the real world, this isn't the year 0 any more, the world has changed and so should the opinions and knowledge of all people, they once used to burn witches in the name od the church, that was wrong, the church knows it is wrong, we don;t do it any more, maybe the gay thing should be moving in that direction also, but if there are unwilling people out there who would rather hide their biggoted views behind the name of the bible we are never going to get any where.....

Esther - posted on 06/09/2011

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That's not how I would read that directive. I would read that as "don't judge because you wouldn't like to be judged for your sins either". I don't think it's a straight line. You can judge divorce as long as you don't divorce, but you can't judge lying if you lie. I read it as don't judge any kind of sin because you're no saint either.

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Because Esther, we can indeed judge other people based upon the scripture that is so often misquoted. Judge not let ye also be judged has a very simple meaning: don't be a hypocrite. A Christian who says that homosexuality is an immoral sin based upon their religion is not violating the above direction as long as they themselves are not partaking in any homosexual behavior themselves.

[deleted account]

It's simple Kate. Jesus's message is not all peace and love and forgiveness. Not really. Plus if we are to believe the words of his followers (i.e. Paul) then homosexuality is still a big no-no. I don't agree with it and I'm not a Christian so it doesn't matter anyway but I do get very confused by Christians who think that their religion does not view gays as anything but immoral. it always strikes me as strange when I see gays wanting to be christian or muslim or jew. To me, it's like a black man wanting to be a member of the KKK. It just doesn't fit.

Esther - posted on 06/09/2011

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Yes, I've often wondered too why the judging can't just be left to God. Does he really need help?

Nikki - posted on 06/09/2011

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I agree with you Kate. And i think I said that a minute ago. the Bible also says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. and the only way to get salvation is to repent for those sins, and you will answer for your sins at final Judgment. It is not my place to judge, but it is my place to educate others on my beliefs because Jesus said to go out and share the Gospel with the world. you don't have to agree with my beliefs but they are my beliefs just as your beliefs are yours and the same to everyone else.

Kate CP - posted on 06/09/2011

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You know what I just DO NOT understand? How so many Christians claim to live a Christian life and be a "good Christian" but they refuse to forgive people and continually judge them for any perceived sin they damn well please.

That was NOT Christ's message. He preached love, understanding, kindness, and tolerance. How the fuck did his followers manage to mangle that message SO BADLY that it's led to countless wars, terrorist threats and acts, violence, and exclusion of others. It makes me sick and if Christ could see how most Christians act he would truly weep. It's pathetic. If it's a sin to be a homosexual then that is between the "sinner" and God. NOT YOU.

Esther - posted on 06/09/2011

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Devout Christians DON'T agree though Nikki. There are lots of churches who do support gay rights.

Nikki - posted on 06/09/2011

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It isn't that we don't agree I just know that the word "homosexual" is not there. Also, whoever said it wasn't a word from ancient Hebrew. Let's remember that this is Nw Testament which was originally in Greek not Hebrew.

Esther - posted on 06/09/2011

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And here's the problem. Even devout Christians can't agree. So why should everyone be ruled by the beliefs of some?

Nikki - posted on 06/09/2011

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That depends on the Bible version Amanda. The KJV says
"Know ye not that th unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicatoer, nor idolators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves wth mankind" 1 Cor 6:9

Esther - posted on 06/09/2011

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It's mentioned in the TRANSLATION of some version of the bible Amanda. Big difference.

Amanda - posted on 06/09/2011

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I agree with you nikki that scripture is in Leviticus
but homosexual is mentioned in corinthians...

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Nikki - posted on 06/09/2011

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I respect that Esther, I believe that at the end we will each answer for our own beliefs, and this thread was askingper he Bible why we are opposed. That is why I said that. This i an old debate anyway. If someone still has issues maybe a new thread should be started

Esther - posted on 06/09/2011

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I don't have to look it up Nikki because my values and my truth are not determined by the bible, the koran, the torah or any other book. I have no problem with you believing in the truth of the bible and trying to live by it's rules. I would just appreciate the opportunity to determine what I believe to be true for myself.

Nikki - posted on 06/09/2011

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OK. First off, separation of church and state is ni such thing. The constitution says that government shall make no law "respecting an establishment of religion" or impeding the free exercise of religion.

Second, the word "homosexual" is not used in the Bible. The Bible says that a man should not lay with another man in the way that he would a woman because it is abomination. It is in Leviticus people Look it up.

Esther - posted on 06/09/2011

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Again - separation of church and state. State can endorse gay marriage without ever forcing any church to do the same. That's how it should be, that's what the gay rights movement is pushing for. To say churches will be forced to marry people of the same gender is simply untrue. It would be great if religious organizations would afford others the same courtesy by not imposing their ideals on them.

Kate CP - posted on 06/09/2011

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If a minister didn't want to perform a marriage he doesn't have to. Period. End of discussion.

Amanda - posted on 06/09/2011

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I was stating that as in if a gay or lesbian couple asked a minister to marry them and the minister didn't feel that was right according to the Bible...but did it. I know that ppl get married other ways than a "religious ceremony" It's their choice.

Amanda - posted on 06/09/2011

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I was stating that as in if a gay or lesbian couple asked a minister to marry them and the minister didn't feel that was right according to the Bible...but did it. I know that ppl get married other ways than a "religious ceremony" It's their choice.

Jen - posted on 06/09/2011

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Thank you, Jenny! I was about to post the exact same thing. The saying in our house: Civil marriage is a Civil right. If you don't want marriage equality in your church, then don't have it. But civil marriage, marriage that affords rights and privileges not afforded to unmarried couples? That's just a matter of equal opportunity under the law.

Jen - posted on 06/09/2011

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Thank you, Jenny! I was about to post the exact same thing. The saying in our house: Civil marriage is a Civil right. If you don't want marriage equality in your church, then don't have it. But civil marriage, marriage that affords rights and privileges not afforded to unmarried couples? That's just a matter of equal opportunity under the law.

Jenny - posted on 06/09/2011

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No, they can't Amanda. It's just a red herring. We have had legal gay marriage for years and churches are not forced into performing them. Don't forget many people get married outside of religion too.

Amanda - posted on 06/09/2011

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I know that a lot of the ppl in this world don't believe what I believe in. I'm not the judge, just go by what the Bible says. and as for the "seperation of church and state" the government does not want the chruch mentioned in their politics but they can say that a preacher has to marry a gay couple...(homo. against bible)

Jen - posted on 06/09/2011

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Hey, I love Gorgonzola. It's one of my favorite cheeses.

And, hey, Amanda! You can believe whatever the hell you want -- but lots of the rest of us don't believe in this idea of punishing people for being who they are.

I think it's something to do with a little thing I like to call, "Separation of Church and State."

Jodi - posted on 06/09/2011

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I am SO sorry that is happening to your sister Lisa. I really HOPE she can find a place of peace. It is unfair, and it is wrong.



I remember somone asking me what I thought when my brother told us he was gay, and my comment was, "he is the same person, same brother, he was yesterday, but now I know something more about him. Just because I KNOW something different, doesn't mean he is not the same person he was when I went to sleep last night".



It saddens me immensely when someone can judge someone for their sexuality. Yes, I AM going to say it. It is equivalent to judging someone because of the colour of their skin. And it CAN have tragic consequences.

Minnie - posted on 06/09/2011

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Jodi, this is what my family is going through right now. The judgement being heaped upong my sister by my mother is horrendous. My future cousin-in-law?'s step brother committed suicide because her (and his) family wouldn't accept him being gay. It terrifies me for my sister. She feels like a total pariah.

Jodi - posted on 06/09/2011

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All I can say is....I hope none of your children are gay. I couldn't imagine being gay and knowing my parents were so bigoted against it and would be asking me to repent and condemning me to hell. Sad *shakes head*. Very sad.

I am pretty sure "Thou shalt not judge" takes higher precedence.

And as I said, "homosexual" is not even a word in ancient hebrew, so the fact that it is in the Bible means it is totally man's interpretation, and not necessarily gospel at all.

Sal - posted on 06/08/2011

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as a wise man once said, "why should i care, it's not like their using my butt"

Charlie - posted on 06/08/2011

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I do not fear what does not exist .

You are entitled to believe what you like just don't push it on others or use it to villify another group of people who's only "crime" is to love , it seems to me that a fear driven , hate mongering following is far worse than some of the "sins" you are hard up against .

I am a good person with strong morals based my values and my values at it's core is equality amongst humans , I do not behave to a certain measure out of fear I do it because it is right , I am tolerant of a lot of things but I do not tolerate intolerence of race , sexuality , age , gender or even religion to an extent given it is done for the sake of personal enlightenment where no other is downtrodden in your path to get there .

Cheri - posted on 06/08/2011

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Amanda, I'm with you all the way sister! Way to go for standing up for the truth. The truth is not welcome in today's society. I posted a while ago about what the Bible says on homosexuality, and how it is a SIN. Hadn't looked at this in a while. Wasn't planning on it either, but I'm glad I saw your posts. Plain and simple it comes down to the fact that people do not FEAR the LORD - David puts it this way, "An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes. For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin" (Psalm 36:1-2). This is not just a problem with homosexuality, but all sin. We need to start by fearing God & realizing that He created us and things how He wanted them to be. We are the ones at fault; we have offended Him in many ways. If we do not fear Him, who has the power to throw our souls into hell, we will never care about our sin. I am a sinner, even though I do not practice homosexuality. But the awesome news is my sin has been paid for in full. For anybody who reads this and thinks I'm a horrible right-winged bigot, or anything like that, go ahead. It won't change God's Word or His truth found therein. The main question is: when you are called for judgment, what will save you from His wrath? What will make you holy enough to enter His presence? He is the only one who has that power, through Jesus Christ, the righteous one. Yes, love is to be emphasized. Jesus loves the unrighteous and the sexual offenders...He loved us enough to free us from a life of sin! We don't have to live in it any longer if we belong to Him. That goes for the homosexual too - Jesus loved them enough to die for their sin, and only by God's grace can they be saved from it. A word that is all too lacking in today's world: REPENT!
(Amanda, I started this to encourage you, but then I got on a preaching box, :)

Lacye - posted on 06/08/2011

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Well since this is back up for debate, I don't agree with it at all. All of these things are misinterpreting the Bible completely. God taught us to love one another. God says to not judge others because he is the only judge. It aggravates me as a Christian to listen to people spread this hate when that is not what God is about.

Jodi - posted on 06/08/2011

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Actually, Amanda, the term homosexual was non existent in ancient Hebrew. So there is no way the original Bible stated what you just quoted to us. Just sayin'.

Charlie - posted on 06/08/2011

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" A lot of ppl select a verse and take it out of context to justify that something is right , when it's still really wrong, and a sin. "

Tell me about it , religious folk have been doing it forever .

Sal - posted on 06/08/2011

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ditto jenny, homophobia is homophobia no matter what bullshit is used to back it up.....yep the year 2011 and people are still to narrow minded and biggoted to see the subject for what it is, some people like guys some like girls, some fancy both who really cares, if you don;t like gays just be honest and say it, i think jesus would die (again) of shame to see his words used by such nasty narrow minded people to make someone else feel not worthy to be who they truely are...

Jenny - posted on 06/08/2011

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Why does lie mean sex?



Just another Christian using the "good book" to excuse their bigotry. It doesn't matter what the bible says Amanda, not one bit. It is OK for adults to form families as they see fit and love whom they love.



Stop spreading the hate, you are on the wrong side of history and acting this way is morally bankrupt in our present time.

Rosie - posted on 06/08/2011

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how do you know that amanda? because that highly biased website, and your highly biased pastor told you so??

Amanda - posted on 06/08/2011

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Loureen In that passage from ur link...where was the topic of homosexuality? A lot of ppl select a verse and take it out of context to justify that something is right , when it's still really wrong, and a sin.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

(homosexual was mentioned in this verse and the topic for these verses was about homosexuality so it's not what someone told me...it's from the BiBlE

Stifler's - posted on 06/08/2011

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i don't see how homosexuality affects anyone bar the person who was born gay and has to face people debating about whether they chose this and whether they are the downfall of society.

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