Redshirting for Kindergarten?

Erin - posted on 07/06/2012

I think it's rediculous, put kids in school when they're ready, quit competing, they're kids not pawns in a chess game. I can't stand coddley competitor moms it's embarassing in my opinion. I don't care how my kids do or don't "measure up" to other kids. It's hard to be a non coddley mom in this society. It's like you're an alien if you don't play the game. I just have better things to think about and do than try to make my kids the best at everything.

Minna - posted on 07/05/2012

I have 2 kids born 3 years 2 days apart. One was the youngest in his class . That was a hard call because he was pretty shy until high school . Academically he did great , valedictorian when he graduated. The other is the 2nd oldest in his class. I held him back because he couldn't sit still.for 2 minutes. No self control at all. After thousands of bedtime stories and hundreds of trips to the library, books were only as good as the pictures. Not only was he not beginning sounding out letters- he really didn't know what they were for! I remember Joe telling me that the letter J looked " vaguely familiar".

Any advantage he may have had in sports vanished as soon as the rest of the football team learned their right from their left. He's not very big and he's right in the middle of his class with school work. It would have been a horrible struggle for him to start at age 5, and he would have been held back anyway. There's a real possibility that he would have been diagnosed with a disorder when his real problem was lack of maturity.

Anyway, I guess it's a individual decision, but I think to do it for any reason but survival is a bit shallow and probably useless. Minna

Tracey - posted on 03/20/2012

You don't get the choice here, your child starts school in September if they will have their fifth birthday during that school year whether born on 1st September one year or 31st August the following year.

Jenny - posted on 03/19/2012

I'll be experiencing both extremes. My daughter was born Boxing Day (Dec. 26th) so she didn't turn 5 for 4 months after starting school. She was ready and is now excelling.



My son was born Jan. 18.The school said I could get him in in September if I talked to the principal. He would only be starting 3 weeks earlier than Grace did. I'm going to wait though as he is not ready yet. I wouldn't have hesitated to challenge it with Grace though.



I think just put your kid in when they are ready. You only get to do it once, may as well start off on the right foot.

Becky - posted on 03/19/2012

Cole's birthday is just 2 weeks before the cut-off, which is March 1, here. I think that is a ridiculously late cut-off. So he would barely be 4 1/2 when he started kindergarten. He is smart and would probably do fine academically, but he is still immature socially and emotionally and I think that being possibly as much as a year and a half younger than some of his classmates, he would really struggle. So, after many arguments with my husband about it, we are holding him back a year. I'm not even so concerned about kindergarten as I am about later in his school years. He would always be one of the youngest, and potentially smallest (we're both shorter) kids in his class. Here also, it is a huge fight to get them to hold a child back, even if it really is warrented. so if he starts out way behind, he continues way behind. I don't see the value in starting him out that way. But I see it differently because of our late cut-off, than holding back a child with a summer or early fall birthday. My second one's birthday is Sept. 7. Unless there is a major issue, we won't be holding him back. I just don't see any reason for it. Like others said, if the child is not ready, and I honestly don't believe Cole would be by this fall, then by all means, hold them back. But otherwise, I think any advantage is kind of imaginary, especially if almost everyone is holding their children back a year now.

Since our legal drinking age is 18 here, Cole will be one of the few kids in his class who can drink at his highschool grad. Actually, hmmm, maybe we should send him early! ;)



I actually thought the law here was that if the child is 6 by September of the current year, they have to start gr. 1. But maybe I'm wrong? Hmmm.

Jaime - posted on 03/19/2012

i don't know about anyone else, but i thought about the stuff i mentioned in my previous post while i was in junior high and high school. i was five when i went into kindergarten so it wasn't an issue with me, but i knew a lot of other kids (from much more affluent families than my own) who were a year older than me but still in my grade. i always wondered how they felt about it. funnily enough, most of them were big into sports so maybe their parents had something going there, lol.

Jaime - posted on 03/19/2012

haven't read any comments but....



ummm....that sounds silly. why would you want your child to feel ostracized by not being the same age as everyone else? that just seems like it'd have the opposite effect...



i know that birthdays play a big part in when a kid can start kindergarten (i don't exactly know what the requirements are, guess i should look that up for my state, lol) but generally if your kid is five by august or will be before october then they are okay with them going to kindergarten. but to just hold the kid back...? why?? how is just being older going to make them feel like a leader when all the other kids their age are a grade above them? how is keeping them out of school an extra year going to make them feel smarter when other kids ask why they didn't go earlier like the others their age (unless you home-school them but even then why would you stick them back in kindergarten so they'd be bored and have to go through the same stuff)? and as for sports, why is that even a factor?? i know sports are a big thing in this country (can't even find a decent onesie set for my boy due in July that doesn't have a damn baseball or football logo on it somewhere) but to hold a kid back for THAT just seems to perpetuate the stereotype that sporty boys in particular are dumber than the book-smart kids. as for girls, yeah i'm being stereotypical but it just doesn't seem as likely that parents would hold girls back for sports...



this all just seems like a bad idea...

Rebecca - posted on 03/19/2012

Not to mention the fact that the 19 year old senior dating the 14 year old freshman and having sex in Michigan would have just committed Criminal Sexual Conduct 1 (AKA rape) under Michigan law. When you are dealing with two high schoolers with less than a five year age difference, it's a misdemeanor. That one year is a difference between life in prison and a slap on the wrist.

Vegemite - posted on 03/19/2012

In Queensland we have a great solution to this. We have a grade called prep which is the grade before grade1. Our school year starts in Feb and ends in Dec so the cut off is 30 Jun. If a child is born in the first half of the year they start prep when they are 4 turning 5, if they are born in the last half of the year they start prep at 5 turning 6.

Prep is optional so if you decide to hold your child back that is your choice but when it comes to enrolling a child that is held back the next year they will be enrolled into grade 1 having missed prep. If parents choose to hold a child back from prep they are expected to teach their child the things that they would have learnt at school other wise they will be behind in grade1.

This is the rule and there are exceptions but that is not at parent's descrition but the school's and education board's.



hahah "descrition" I sound like a New Zealander. Silly Kiwis and their silly accent. :) or should I say accint.

Jodi - posted on 03/19/2012

Hahahaha Mary, I had the opposite problem. I was one of the oldest kids in my class. So I got my license first, which meant all my friends wanted me to drive them places, and I was the first of my friends to turn 21. Wasn't much of a 21st birthday bash! lol



But it is scary that these kids will be 19 when they graduate, if this trend continues, they'll be 20,21 before they graduate, and starting college later and later. What will employers think? How will this effect pregnancy rates, both in highschool and after? I have nothing against pregnancy in highschool, but you can't deny it makes things much harder. And marriage, it just seems weird to think of highschoolers being married, with babies, and not being graduated yet. I know it's a bit extreme, but if it's really that important to parents to make their kids the smartest, the fastest, the most advanced, then they'll have to hold them back 2 years instead of 1, and then 3 years instead of 2. All hypothetical of course.

Mary - posted on 03/19/2012

That is an alarming thought! I didn't turn 18 until I was away at college! Molly will be 5 when she starts kindergarten, and turn 6 in mid-November. Which will make her 18, getting to turn 19 when she starts college (providing she stays true to the current age requirements).



On the up side for her - she won't be one of the last of her friends to get her driver's license, or be able to legally drink. Not exactly a mother's fondest wish for her kid, but I do remember being frustrated with those little issue myself. A lot of my friends could go out to bars halfway through junior year, and I had to wait until the fall of my senior year. That did suck!

Rebecca - posted on 03/19/2012

Actually, most of these kids will be 19 when they graduate high school if they are starting kindergarten when they are six.

Celeste - posted on 03/19/2012

Ah gotcha. Totally agree with you there.

Mother - posted on 03/19/2012

Oh Celeste, I know the curriculum is more in depth. My point was, what exactly are they going to be "leader" of?? It's kindergarten. It isn't like they are preparing for SAT's or anything. There is enough pressure in this world. Why on earth would parents start pressuring them so early. Everyone is good at something....let them be good at being a kid. It is the ONLY carefree time in their lives.

Elfrieda - posted on 03/19/2012

Well, I had grade 13 so I was 19 by the time I went to university. (September b-day)

It's not a huge deal, but it does delay life. I went to school, got married, worked a bit, waited a few years to get to know my husband better, THEN had a baby at 28. Now I'm pregnant again and I'm 30 already. If we want more (I would love 4 kids, but I just don't see it happening because of our ages) we'll have to squeeze them in faster than I would prefer. One year doesn't make much of a difference, but it's something.

Celeste - posted on 03/19/2012

Yeah, Elfrieda, in my district, you get marks but not from "scissoring skills" or the like. My boys are in PreK and that is "Kindergarten" when I was a kid. They work on social skills, following directions, writing, using scissors.



Meme, I agree, I don't think it's a big deal either. I was 17 when I was in 12th grade but most of my friends were 18.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/19/2012

I dunno, I was 18 in grade 12. Some friends were 17 but other's were 18 as well. Just remember, by the time they get to grade 12, there are many of them that started later or earlier and they are all integrated according to what classes they take. I don't think it is a big deal being 18 when graduating or 17. But maybe, that's just me... ;)

Elfrieda - posted on 03/19/2012

Why is it called redshirting, I wonder?



My son was born in December (cut-off Dec.31) and I have been a little worried for him because they would want him to start JK when he's only 3! That's still a baby! But I think I'll just keep him with me until SK and then let him go. I'm not pleased with the full-day kindergarten coming in, but I'll worry about that when it gets closer. (he's 2 now)



I thought of holding him back, but my husband was always bored in school and so if he's smart like his daddy it might actually work out very well for him to be a bit younger than the other kids. (physically he's an ox, takes after my side of the family!) Besides, you need to think of the kid's future. If all the others are graduating high school at 17, why does he need to be there until he's 18? His whole life is delayed by a year. That's not a favour, in my opinion.



I'll make sure to remind the teacher of his tender years if he starts getting poor marks for "scissoring skills". :P (surely you don't get marks in Kindergarten? I have no idea.)

Celeste - posted on 03/19/2012

Mother, in my district, they do MUCH more than what you listed. By the end of kindergarten, they are writing paragraphs, learning graphs, they have to be reading at a certain level before first grade, and I'm sure there's more. I'm a little worried about one of my twin boys because he can't quite write his name yet.. He's in Pre K and they've been working on it but I am still a little worried!



But I agree, redshirting because you want your kid to be #1 and to be ahead is a bit silly.

Mother - posted on 03/19/2012

My initial reaction is.....OMG...it's kindergarten. I think this practice is ridiculous. Let kids be kids. People are so wrapped up in their kids being #1 that they are failing. Let them have fun. Parents are sucking every bit of fun out of their childhood. Kids are who they are because that is their personality. Holding them back to make them a leader isn't for them....it is for the parent. Now, if children are being held back because their birthday doesn't fall into the appropriate category then fine but purposely holding a child back so they "appear" to be ahead of the class is silly. They will be ahead of the class because they are a year older, not because they miraculously became a genius in the last year.



How hard is kindergarten? They need to know their full name address and phone. Be able to identify money. Be able to count to ten and backwards. Be able to hold scissors and pencils. To cut and colour in the lines. Listen and follow direction. So seriously, establishing leaders from this?? Some kids just learn differently and some teachers teach differently. Let the kids have fun and stop pressuring them.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/19/2012

I don't think it is going to make a difference to intentionally hold them back to be a leader, have an up in sports or be the smartest in class. My daughter's b-day is Dec 1st. In NS, until last year, you had to be 5 before Oct 1 (maybe 31st, can't recall), now it is before Jan 1st. So, she was almost 6 when she started Kindergarten. No difference for her. She is NOT a leader. She does not have "leader" personality traits (like her mother). She is not the smartest in her class, she has though, always been an A/B student (never ever less than a B). However, I believe that is because I watch her progress and make her redo work if I feel it needs to be. She is nowhere near good at most sports, she doesn't like them unless it is badminton.



I think it is a stupid idea. To do it purposefully, I don't get it.



However, if you feel your child is just not ready yet, then I do see purpose there. ;)



EAT:Now my son will be 5 in October 2015, so he will be 4 when he starts. I will have to see how he is then and decide if I think he is mentally ready...

Mary - posted on 03/19/2012

Krista, it wouldn't work in my area because at the elementary level, there are tons of schools that then feed into two bigger middle schools, and then one big high school. There aren't enough classes in each individual school to do that until they hit the middle school level (which is 6th grade here). I think eventually other areas will have to do what Chicago did - which is to force the parents to start the kid in first grade at the age of 6 (unless, of course, there is a professionally documented recommendation to hold them back). It really is getting that ridiculous.



Rebecca, I hope that it goes well with your boys. As I said, this whole issue was why, even at Molly's tender age, I didn't try to push her into the 3 y/o program even though I knew she was more than capable of excelling in it. I didn't want her to be two years younger than a bulk of her class. It's just too much of an age difference when they are this young.



In retrospect, I was also a fall birthday, and one of the younger kids in my class (the cutoff was December 31st back then). Like my niece, I struggled a bit in kindergarten and first grade, and then it all seemed to even out for me, and I was then one of the "smart" kids. It's funny, but I vividly remember thinking that the smart kids were automatically always tall. I just didn't realize that it was because they were, for the most part, almost a year older than me! Because of the change in the cut-off date, she will be starting kindergarten at almost a full year older than I did.

Krista - posted on 03/19/2012

So why DON'T they divide the classes by age, then? It seems so simple and logical? It won't be happening in my son's school, because there is only one class of each grade (it's a very small school), but in bigger schools like the one I went to, where there were three classes of each grade, why not do it? I mean, you'd obviously have to fiddle with it a bit, as you're not going to get all students perfectly evenly distributed throughout the calendar year, but at least it's a starting point, right?

Rebecca - posted on 03/19/2012

In Chicago, Illinois (USA), the school district instituted a policy that required 6 YOs to be placed in 1st grade if their parents held them back from Kindergarten. Redshirting has become such an issue there that the school district felt they had no choice.



I can certainly understand it if the parents feel the kid isn't ready, but what I'm hearing a lot of in our area is parents (particularly of boys) doing it because they feel it will make their kid the "class leader" or the "best" in sports (which is ridiculous IMHO). One of the girls I went to high school with went redshirted two of her three boys because of the sports issue alone (apparently, she didn't know she had the option with the first one but would have redshirted his too if she had known). She claims it makes a "huge" difference for sports. Personally, I'm not sending my kids to school to play sports. I'm sending them there to learn. Plus, from my own sports experience, age has little to do with sports once you hit the high school level anyway -- I played Varsity Volleyball and Varsity Track as a freshman (when I was 14). Most of the team was made up of seniors and juniors (who were 3 to 4 years older than me). And really, how can you as a parent feel proud of your child and feel that he is "better" at sports than his classmates when his classmates are 2 years younger than him. Seems a tad delusional to me.



For us, we are having the opposite issue -- we are sending our 4 YO twins to kindergarten early because they are academically, socially and physically ready. They miss the cut off by three months here, so it's been an issue finding a placement for them. So all this redshirting means that they are likely to have kids who are 2 years older then them in the same class as them by first grade.

Mary - posted on 03/19/2012

Krista - I agree that they need to do something to curb this trend. It is forcing people like my sister to delay a kid they might otherwise not have delayed. After her experience with her daughter, she had absolutely no hesitation about holding her son back. He was probably on the bubble as far as readiness - but when you threw in the fact that he, like his sister, would have been over a year younger than some of his classmates, the choice to delay him became a no-brainer. It simply wasn't fair to him. He was also unlike his sister in that he was much more aware of what the kids around him were doing; it would have shot his self-esteem to shit to not be able to do everything his peers were doing with ease simply because he was so much younger.

Krista - posted on 03/19/2012

I don't agree with holding the kid back in order to give them an advantage in sports, or for leadership purposes, or things like that. I CAN understand it, however, if they genuinely feel that their child is not yet ready for school. My son was born in mid-august, and in our school district, the cut-off birthday is September 1st. So if we put him into school when we "should", then he'll be one of the youngest in his class -- he'll have JUST turned 5, whereas some kids in his class will almost be 6. So his father and I have agreed to monitor the situation, and monitor his progress when he goes to preschool, and if we don't feel he's ready for school, we have no qualms about holding him back another year, if needs be.



Of course, as the trend continues, you run the risk of everybody doing it, to the point where it'll get ridiculous and kids won't be starting school until age 7 or later. I would suggest that in larger schools, it would make sense in elementary school to divide the kids by age. So let's say you have enough students in the school to constitute three Grade 1 classes. Instead of just mixing them randomly, why not have one class with kids born in the months September to December, and then the other class with kids born in January to April, and so on? I think that would be a lot better, because there would be no more than a 4-month age difference between classmates, and it improves the odds of all of the kids in that class being roughly at the same stage, which allows the teacher to really focus her efforts.



Something like that might help reduce the number of people holding their kids back.

Jodi - posted on 03/19/2012

But that's exactly my point Mary. Those kids shouldn't have been put into kindergarten a year late by their parents, because I would find it incredibly hard to believe that every child was held back because they weren't ready. I truly do understand that by holding your child back a year, it makes it hard for others NOT to, but that still doesn't make it right, it hsouldn't be being done to begin with by those parents. It's just one more reason why I'm seriously considering homeschooling! lol

Mary - posted on 03/19/2012

Jodi, the hard thing is that because so many parents are choosing to hold their kid back simply to give them an advantage (and not because the kid truly isn't ready) - it almost forces other parents to do the same. Someone like my niece, who really was ready to start kindergarten at 5 was put at a huge disadvantage because the majority of her classmates were over a year older than her. I also think it messes with the teacher's perception of where any given kid is in comparison to the rest of the class.



As I said, it was suggested that my niece be held back a year at some point during the first grade. It really wasn't about her individual performance, but rather the teacher's perspective on how my niece was doing as compared to the rest of the class. Once my sister really investigated this issue, and pointed out to the teacher that her daughter was actually over a year younger than many of those kids around her (but was also the correct age for her academic year), the teacher's opinion of my niece's capabilities shifted a bit.



Luckily, my niece, at the time, was a bit oblivious to all of this, so there was very little impact on her self-esteem and confidence. As I said earlier, she is actually (now) one of the smartest kids in her class. Not only are her standardized test scores off the charts, but she excels within her classroom performance as well. The only area where it is still an issue is with regards to physical things - she hates gym class, and is very verbal about the fact that she is not as "good" at things as her peers in school. Luckily, this is not the case in the sporting activities she does outside of school, where they are regulated by age, and not what grade they are in.

Vegemite - posted on 03/19/2012

That's how I feel about it too Mary but my thinking is that if I apply for early enrollment and he gets in then I can make the final desicion at the end of this year. If it turns out he isn't ready at that time or they say no for what ever reason then that will be fine.

Jodi - posted on 03/19/2012

I think it 's totally acceptable to hold them back a year if the parent feels their child isn't ready. But to hold them back just so that they have an age advantage and look smarter? And yes, LOOK smarter, a whole year of age makes a huge difference in a child's ability to understand, comprehend, pay attention etc etc. THAT is just ridiculous. Really people, let kids be kids, let them go to kindergarten when they're 4 or 5 (it's 5 here) on time, or when they're ready. I do not get all this competition to have the smart kid, but by cheating or putting their that child's emotions to the wayside to do so. A friend of mine does her child's homework for her so that's correct...I have voiced my displeasure and how I really *really* think this is only going to hurt her child in the long run, but to no avail. She obviously doesn't feel her child is smart enough to pass by on her own merit...and one day, her little girl is going to figure that out, how will she feel then?

Celeste - posted on 03/19/2012

I have mixed feelings on this. My daughter was held back in Kindergarten and I kinda wished that I had redshirted her. She was an August baby and I sent her to Kindergarten that year. I had no clue how kindergarten has changed and she struggled. So, I made the difficult decision to hold her back (which I'm glad she was held back)



My twin boys turned 5 in October so they'll be almost 6 when they start.



So, having said that, if parents feel that that their child isn't mature enough or ready, I can understand why they'd want to redshirt their child.

Mary - posted on 03/19/2012

Chrissey, I debated about that same thing with my daughter and preschool.



Last winter, when I was looking into the different preschools around us, we spent two mornings on a "share day" at two of the schools I was considering. Because of where her birthday falls, she would only have been eligible for a 2 y/o program, even though she was turning 3 not long after the start of the school year. Therefore, she was in a classroom with kids who were (technically) a year older with regards to the academic year. It really worried me at the time; she seemed not just on par with these "older" kids, but actually a good bit ahead of some of them in many different areas. I was really worried that if she seemed so far ahead of these kids, it would be even worse when she was in that same class the following year with kids who were even younger.



However, after watching what my niece went through, I was in no rush to push her ahead either. I didn't want to set her up to be starting kindergarten, and be not just a year, but in some cases, two years younger than some of her classmates. Physically, that can be a huge difference, and she is already on the smaller side as it is.



I got lucky - all but one of the kids in her current preschool class also has a fall birthday shortly after that Sept 1 cut-off. So although she is technically in a 2 y/o program, all of them were actually 3 by December. Molly is still a bit ahead of them with regards to some of the "academic" type stuff, but it is not as drastic as I had feared it would be. Truthfully, that wasn't really my goal for sending her to preschool anyway. I was doing it more for the social aspects (learning to share, take turns, play with others, etc.) that, as an only child, I felt she needed. I also wanted her to be able to do this without my presence.



She has absolutely loved it, and it has been a HUGE benefit for her.

Vegemite - posted on 03/19/2012

I think it all depends on the childs individual development and personality. I am having the opposite with my youngest, he misses the cut of by 9days but I know will be ready. He will be 3 in July and will be going into the pre-school class at day care then because he is physically, emotionally and intelectually up to this level. So I am currently trying to get him assessed by the state board of education to enter pre-prep (kindergarten in USA) at school for next year. However with my oldest if he were born a couple of months earlier I would have kept him back a year as he would not have been ready.

Mary - posted on 03/19/2012

Totally off-topic, but I was delighted when I clicked on the link to see that the reporter was a guy I was friends with in college =)



As for the topic....I think it really is becoming almost the norm for parents to do this now. It won't be an issue for me; my daughter will be one of the older kids in her class just because of where her birthday falls. However, it was an issue for my sister with both of her kids.



In her state (and also mine) the age cut-off is September 1st. Both of her kids have mid-August birthdays. My niece is the older of the two, and they did not delay her kindergarten start. It was a decision that my sister really questioned the first 3 years the girl was in school. In those years, my niece has some significant struggles. In first grade, about halfway through the school year, her teacher suggested that they may want to consider holding the girl back a year. My sister was not only upset by this, but also a little bit bewildered. My niece was actually a rather bright girl, but she seemed to be struggling to hold her own in comparison to many of her classmates. It took her a bit longer to "get" some of the things that her classmates seemed to grasp so easily. It wasn't until my sister really looked into this that she realized that over half of the girl's class was over a year older than she was. She already would have been on the young side to begin with, since her birthday was so close to the cut-off, but combined with the fact that so many parents are now choosing to delay a year, she was over a full year younger than many of them. At this age, that difference can be huge.



Luckily, it all seemed to even out for my niece by the end of second grade. As I said, she is an unusually bright kid, and now that she is in fourth grade, she is actually at the top of her class academically. Gym and physical play are still a bit of any issue, since many of her peers are physically bigger than she is, and my sister says that she feels that she is also emotionally and socially a bit behind some of her friends, but she is otherwise happy and thriving now.



When it came time to send my nephew to school, who also has an August birthday, they didn't hesitate to hold him back after their experience with my niece. They really didn't feel as if they had a choice. He is a bit more impulsive and unruly (my sister is sure he will probably be worked up for ADHD at some point). He's "smart", but nearly as much so as his sister, and was definitely more developmentally immature than she was at the same age. He truly would have been at a disadvantage if thrown into an environment where a good number of his peers were over a year older. He is now in first grade, and has had a much smoother transition into school than my niece did.



Did they need to delay his start? They may not have, if everyone sent their kid to school when they were of age. However, because so many people are holding their kids back, they didn't feel as if they had a choice.

Teresa - posted on 03/18/2012

I don't know about holding them back when they are 5 before the school year starts, but I know quite a few boys born August-December that have done 2 years of K for one reason or another. Some girls too.



I will say that my girls started K (technically JrK) at 4.5 (December born) and I thought a LOT about holding them back another year. Academically and socially they were doing just fine, but I worried a lot about how they would be socially right about now (10). Thankfully they've always done well and I haven't regretted the decision, but it was quite a stressful one to make and I wouldn't fault anyone for making it the other way.