Romney's words and the upcoming election

[deleted account] ( 122 moms have responded )

"There are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney says in a clip from a secretly filmed private donor meeting in May, which was first posted on Monday afternoon. "There are 47% who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing." (Romney has verified and is standing behind his statement)



What do you think about Romney's words? Do you feel he is lumping too many people in to the 47% by saying that everyone who receives aid does so because they believe they are entitled to those benefits? Do you believe they are entitled to those benefits?



Do you think everyone who relies on government aid (Medicare, Medicaid, Foodstamps, TANF, SSI, etc.) will vote for Obama just because they depend on aid and Romney is so adamantly against aid? Or do you think that many of those will still vote for Romney despite his opposition to government aid because of his stance on other issues?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Kate - posted on 09/20/2012

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I happen to be a social worker, so I work with this system and "these people" every day. I can honestly say that I have run groups in section 8 housing projects where 85% of the cars in the lot were nicer than mine (in all fairness I have a 2003 civic- so it's not that nice), every child had on band name sneakers and band name clothing. The mom's all have fresh mani, pedi.... It is frustrating as hell. I can't afford that. My kid has clothing from TJMaxx and Target or yard sales.



Following that I read a book suggested to me by my supervisor talking about the "culture of poverty" I can't remember the name of the book or the author, but it was helpful to me. It discussed how many of the problems that these individuals have are caused by not being able to manage money. The solution being not to cut welfare, but to teach some money management skills. I don't think that these individuals fell that they are "entitled" to benefits. They need them.



So in my estimation you have two groups of people. One that needs the benefits because they can manage money, but because of an illness or some other issue cannot work. And a second group who need to be taught life skills. Both groups need help in different ways.



Since then I have changed jobs and now work in mental health with adults. I can honestly say that there is an amazing amount of waste. Wasted time. Wasted paperwork. Wasted money. I don't agree with Obama or Romeny- but I do think that the system is broken. Those who need help can't get it. Those who give the help almost qualify for it. Agencies throw money away, while valuable programs get cut for lack of funding. It's a disaster. I don't want to see these people thrown to the wolves. We need to have a welfare system in place to help people, but it seems to me that the government is doing an awful job of managing all this and it's time for a major change. Unfortunately, neither Romeny or Obama has any kind of creative idea to change the system. It's the same old tired ideas that don't work.

[deleted account]

Sally, in case you missed 9/11, the Middle East was pissed off at the US long before Obama ever got into office, and our economy was already in mid-flush during the Bush administration's go at it.

Karla - posted on 11/03/2012

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Lakota Believes about Romney...



1. I believe Romney will improve our economy - Obama DID improve the economy

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-kl...



2. I believe he will bring jobs to the unemployed - As is Obama -- see above link.



3. We need a businessman in office, not a used car salesman - Here's a very interesting article on the Auto Company Bailout:

"The jobs were saved, the economy was helped, and the government gets repaid ahead of schedule. GM too is earning healthy profits again, allowing the government to divest itself of its GM stock. So: everybody wins. "

honestly for some perspective the whole article should be read:

http://prospect.org/article/unpopular-su...



4. He is promilitary - um ... Obama took out bin Laden. If ending wars is not pro-military then so be it.

From a list of Obama's ACCOMPLISHMENTS:



-. Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.



- Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: From a peak of 101,000 troops in June 2011, U.S. forces are now down to 91,000, with 23,000 slated to leave by the end of summer 2012. According to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, the combat mission there will be over by next year.



- Eliminated Osama bin laden: In 2011, ordered special forces raid of secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in which the terrorist leader was killed and a trove of al-Qaeda documents was discovered.



- Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: Ended 1990s-era restriction and formalized new policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military for the first time.



- Toppled Moammar Gaddafi: In March 2011, joined a coalition of European and Arab governments in military action, including air power and naval blockade, against Gaddafi regime to defend Libyan civilians and support rebel troops. Gaddafi’s forty-two-year rule ended when the dictator was overthrown and killed by rebels on October 20, 2011. No American lives were lost.



- Told Mubarak to Go: On February 1, 2011, publicly called on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to accept reform or step down, thus weakening the dictator’s position and putting America on the right side of the Arab Spring. Mubarak ended thirty-year rule when overthrown on February 11.



- Reversed Bush Torture Policies: Two days after taking office, nullified Bush-era rulings that had allowed detainees in U.S. custody to undergo certain “enhanced” interrogation techniques considered inhumane under the Geneva Conventions. Also released the secret Bush legal rulings supporting the use of these techniques.



- Improved America’s Image Abroad: With new policies, diplomacy, and rhetoric, reversed a sharp decline in world opinion toward the U.S. (and the corresponding loss of “soft power”) during the Bush years. From 2008 to 2011, favorable opinion toward the United States rose in ten of fifteen countries surveyed by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, with an average increase of 26 percent.



- Began Asia “Pivot”: In 2011, reoriented American military and diplomatic priorities and focus from the Middle East and Europe to the Asian-Pacific region. Executed multipronged strategy of positively engaging China while reasserting U.S. leadership in the region by increasing American military presence and crafting new commercial, diplomatic, and military alliances with neighboring countries made uncomfortable by recent Chinese behavior.



- Increased Support for Veterans: With so many soldiers coming home from Iraq and Iran with serious physical and mental health problems, yet facing long waits for services, increased 2010 Department of Veterans Affairs budget by 16 percent and 2011 budget by 10 percent. Also signed new GI bill offering $78 billion in tuition assistance over a decade, and provided multiple tax credits to encourage businesses to hire veterans.



- Tightened Sanctions on Iran: In effort to deter Iran’s nuclear program, signed Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act (2010) to punish firms and individuals who aid Iran’s petroleum sector. In late 2011 and early 2012, coordinated with other major Western powers to impose sanctions aimed at Iran’s banks and with Japan, South Korea, and China to shift their oil purchases away from Iran.



- Achieved New START Treaty: Signed with Russia (2010) and won ratification in Congress (2011) of treaty that limits each country to 1,550 strategic warheads (down from 2,200) and 700 launchers (down from more than 1,400), and reestablished and strengthened a monitoring and transparency program that had lapsed in 2009, through which each country can monitor the other.



- Trimmed and Reoriented Missile Defense: Cut the Reagan-era “Star Wars” missile defense budget, saving $1.4 billion in 2010, and canceled plans to station antiballistic missile systems in Poland and the Czech Republic in favor of sea-based defense plan focused on Iran and North Korea.



- Began Post-Post-9/11 Military Builddown: After winning agreement from congressional Republicans and Democrats in summer 2011 budget deal to reduce projected defense spending by $450 billion, proposed new DoD budget this year with cuts of that size and a new national defense strategy that would shrink ground forces from 570,000 to 490,000 over the next ten years while increasing programs in intelligence gathering and cyberwarfare.



- Helped South Sudan Declare Independence: Helped South Sudan Declare Independence: Appointed two envoys to Sudan and personally attended a special UN meeting on the area. Through U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Ambassador Susan Rice, helped negotiate a peaceful split in 2011.

see:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazin...



5. He is for small businesses - So is Obama - his stance on ending the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy only effect BIG business.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...



6. He is pro life - are you sure about that... it looks like a method for Romney to get your vote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09...



7. He wants people to work, not keep their hands held out. See the first link again -- employment is INCREASING under Obama's leadership.



A list of signed legislation under Obama:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/...

Johnny - posted on 09/26/2012

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I can only assume she's bought into the welfare queen stereotypes that are so strongly pushed by the "rich people first" agenda drivers and does not actually understand who the entitlement system really supports, why they actually need that support, and how it benefits the economy as a whole, those rich folks included. The myopic, small-mindedness of this viewpoint even manages to ignore the vast corporate welfare system that most of the profits and "earnings" of the rich come from.



And you know Sally, I say this as someone who has been on the upper end of this chain. I come from a wealthy family and received all the benefits of that. I can tell you that my grandfather, who was the one who began to accumulate wealth for our family, worked very hard. But in our family, each and every one of us were raised to understand that it was luck that created richness, not just hard work. He had 4 brothers, who all worked just as hard or harder in their jobs. Longer hours with greater physcial labor. My grandfather just happened to meet and befriend a man who mentored him in the world of finance. He was able to build wealth and not work endless hours of physical labor due to good fortune. One of my uncles who has done an excellent job of adding to my grandfather's work, probably works about 4 hours a day or so in front of his computer, and that's it. Otherwise he's a man of leisure because that's all the time and effort it takes for him to manage the investments. It is naive to think that people have money because they EARNED it more than people that don't. To me, that just shouts the ignornace of nouveau riche, lol.



It's an ignorance that supports the idea that a struggling single mother working two jobs shouldn't get help with daycare and medicaid because she really should have planned better. It's an ignorance that supports the idea that an injured military veteran should not need extensive counseling and housing supports from the VA. It's an ignorance that supports the idea that a 55 year old man who worked long hours his whole life should not be entitled to disability benefits after suffering a fall on the job. Because they should have planned better, they should be working harder, they should have been more responsible. It's an ignorance that supports the most shocking level of hubris, when the people supporting it should really just take a good long look in the mirror and say, there but for the grace of God go I.

[deleted account]

"Please tell me how Romney could close 160,000 jobs over here or outsource any jobs?" Lakota



I find it funny how you are cyber laughing at what you believe is ignorance when you ask a question like that and make a statement that Romney is not a CEO....um, he is the CEO of Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors, Ltd, based in Bermuda....you know, an off shore tax haven :P oops. He is also still very heavily financially involved with Bain Capital, which he founded and served as CEO for many years.



How did Romney outsource jobs?

“according to government documents . . . Romney, when he was in charge of Bain [Capital], invested heavily in a Chinese manufacturing company that depended on US outsourcing for its profits—and that explicitly stated that such outsourcing was crucial to its success.” --David Corn

"On April 17, 1998, Brookside Capital Partners Fund, a Bain Capital affiliate of which Romney was the sole shareholder, sole director, president, and chief executive, invested an estimated $14.2 million in Global-Tech, an appliance maker in Dongguan, China. Global-Tech made products for American companies like Sunbeam, Hamilton Beach, Mr. Coffee, and Proctor-Silex." --Forbes



"Mitt Romney’s financial company, Bain Capital, invested in a series of firms that specialized in relocating jobs done by American workers to new facilities in low-wage countries like China and India.



During the nearly 15 years that Romney was actively involved in running Bain, a private equity firm that he founded, it owned companies that were pioneers in the practice of shipping work from the United States to overseas call centers and factories making computer components, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission." --Washington Post



How has he lied?

Bain Capital, while he was there, invested in companies that outsourced, and, as David Corn writes,

This previously unreported deal runs counter to Romney’s tough talk on the campaign trail regarding China. “We will not let China continue to steal jobs from the United States of America,” Romney declared in February. But with this investment, Romney sought to make money off a foreign company that banked on American firms outsourcing manufacturing overseas.



How is he bad for the middle class?

"In 2010 and 2011, Mitt and Ann paid $6.2 million in federal tax on $42.5 million in income, for an average tax rate just shy of 15 percent, substantially less than what most middle-income Americans pay. Romney manages this low rate because he takes his payments from Bain Capital as investment income, which is taxed at a maximum 15 percent, instead of the 35 percent he would pay on “ordinary” income, such as salaries and wages." --Vanity Fair



Furthermore, most of the tax cuts he mentions in his campaingn as "accross the board cuts" will really only help the rich, or those who own their own businesses....great for me! Maybe not for you, I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm an investor. Unlike Mr.Romney, I invest HERE in America, and I don't hide my money in Switzerland and Bermuda. (he has admitted to harboring a little over $3million in a Swiss account. It's legal, you just have to have enough money to do it in order to avoid those nasty taxes those of us keeping our cash in the states have to pay)





Sources:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2012/...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickall...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/e...

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**Jackie** - posted on 11/07/2012

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Wah I missed this debate! Congratulations President Obama!



I am planning on reading a lot of these posts....well I guess it doesn't matter anymore....anyway, just want to say I agree with LMCBW, I have yet to hear someone tell me why they wanted romney to be president....besides the fact that they don't like obama.





P.S. Did anyone else crack up when Obama thanked his wife and kids and then told them one dog was enough? Hilarious that all dads are the same lol

Tah - posted on 11/07/2012

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Jen 1), I had rotator cuff surgery and open distal clavicle bone dissection, and I am not allowed to drive, it drives me crazy having to wait on my husband to get home from base or find a ride somewhere, so i understand having to find a ride and not being able to get where you need to. If I had to ride with her i might just open the door and roll out..LOL but he won so YES!!!..



2) At least she admitted she was ignorant of it. I truly wonder where they get their information, and how would they know who the workers voted for. I do know that the Koch brothers sent out letters to compel their workers to vote for Romney. It only takes a little research. I think people just hear what they want and believe what they want.

[deleted account]

Unfortunately Tah, Iwasn't able to find anyone and am very upset that I could not get my vote in for County Executive. I'm tickled that Obama won. I have a lady who drives me to appointmets who told me today that hundreds of hospital workers would now lose their jobs. They would 'fire anyone who voted for Obama". I am fairly certian that would be illegal. but like so many who bitch about the health care reform, she did not do any research on it and admitted she was ignorant.



It drives me mad.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/07/2012

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Oh....and just a side note....not that it matters anymore. Not ONE and I mean ANYONE person that has been a Romney fan has been able to tell me why. It usually points the finger back to Obama and says he sucks. Well, I have not heard a single true compelling argument to support a man like romney. And hell, i come from the state he was governor of. Guess what? We did not want to see him in the highest office possible. And also, the people from his own fathers state did not want him in office. That should really tell you romney fans something.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/07/2012

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First of all...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...Karla a bully. That is rich. Clearly you do not know her. I have had the opportunity to become friends with her, and she is a fan-fucking-tastic lady. Throwing around the word bully is not joke. And she does not fit the bill.



Secondly, CONGRATULATIONS PRESIDENT OBAMA! I am proud to be an American today, and have my womens rights intact. Also GLBT rights are just improving day by day. I could not be more please with the way this country is moving "forward".

Tah - posted on 11/07/2012

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Lakota, what you are is someone who posted a viewpoint, were proven wrong and you are now trying to save face. This, however makes you look worse. Karla has never been a bully but someone who can always bring facts to support her position. The same way she did in OM where you posted this same message. It takes a real woman to say, "You know what, I was wrong, I didn't know x,y,z and i will go do more research" The antics you are showing now are not that of a woman. You can call me a bully or follower, whatever you like, I am secure in who I am and what I stand for. If it is at odds with your beliefs, that is fine as well. I don't care who you voted for, I am just glad you voted. If you do not know how to debate, or can not take having your beliefs challenged with facts from someone with a different viewpoint, then you may want to refrain from joining debate communities. You have proven a point, but I doubt it's one you should be proud of





Karla I think your special..LOL....

Karla - posted on 11/07/2012

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"I did enjoy commenting on Karla's post and pretending to be a Romney fan because I have read many of her posts before joining Circle of Moms and she's a bully. So interesting to see others - Tah, Kelly - follow in her foot steps and single out and pick on one person because their views are different."



That’s so interesting that you've been trolling around just to fool me. It makes me feel rather special, thanks.



As I've mentioned elsewhere, you are only the second person (in my life!) to call me a bully. The first did it here on CoM in frustration because she could not dispute my facts. Having said that, I’m not sure exactly in what way you believe I violated the Community Guidelines here on CoM?



I know it’s difficult to find reputable information on-line, especially about politics. There are so many blogs – which are primarily opinions -- and slanted news sources. I've found many that are more balanced then others.

Karla - posted on 11/07/2012

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Jen, I wish I had seen your message earlier! There are people who volunteer to give rides to polling places. Both the Democratic and Republican headquarters in your area would likely have someone to give you a ride. Also, I would encourage you to look into absentee ballot if this is still an issue in the next election.

:-)

[deleted account]

Lakota, You were not singled out, you were addressed because several of your debate points were found to be inaccurate or needed further explanation, thus we asked you specifically only because you were the one who made them. In fact, looking back, in addition to your inaccurate statements about Romney's career, your statement that women on Obama's staff are paid less than men in the same positions is also inaccurate. (Actually, the finding was that he had more men in higher paid positions than women, but men and women were paid equally based on their position. This is common in many fields where men are more dominant than women. The cause is more likely that fewer qualified women applied for the higher paid positions on the staff, thus men got the positions. Also, while the difference is small, Obama does have more women in the highest paid positions than any past republican president).



When a two people have very different views, it is common for them to address each other specifically group discussions in order to reach clarification. In your case, several of us had different views from yours, but that agreed with each other, we didn't mean to "gang up on you" but we felt the need to address you specifically because you were the only one who could effectively answer the posed questions. If we hadn't addressed you, and just asked the questions generally, it would have been confusing. That is the nature of debate, and I am sorry you felt "ganged up on".



All in all, I am happy to learn that you are not a true Romney supporter because that could explain why you were so misinformed, and this gives me hope that true Romney supporters are not so misinformed. I wish that you hadn't "pretended" though, I would have liked to engage in a true debate and I think that the perspective from an independent party voter would have been a valuable addition. As you may recall, at the beginning of this thread, I mentioned that I was on the fence about my vote and was considering a Green Party vote, thus your input as an independent could have been quite interesting and informative.

Tah - posted on 11/06/2012

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@Jen, can someone take you to vote?? A neighbor perhaps who votes where you do...

Johnny - posted on 11/06/2012

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Lakota, you are in a debating community. When people disagree with your standpoint, they will single out your points and take issue with them. That is the reason that everyone is here, to debate and argue those with different viewpoints. You are actually violating THUMPS by calling one of the members of this community a bully. If she has been violating community standards, you should be reporting it to the admin or community management, not calling names.

[deleted account]

I dearly wish I could go vote but I can't. I'm still not allowed to drive after my nervous breakdown. I wish I could go vote for Obama. Why? I would vote for Leatherface after watching that Republican commerical showing the Evil Chinese Plotting to Take Over the USA.

Lakota - posted on 11/06/2012

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Hey there ladies. I actually didn't vote for Obama or Romney. I am an independant and I don't like either of them. So, I voted independant - even though I know that person won't win.



I did enjoy commenting on Karla's post and pretending to be a Romney fan because I have read many of her posts before joining Circle of Moms and she's a bully. So interesting to see others - Tah, Kelly - follow in her foot steps and single out and pick on one person because their views are different. Jokes on you.

[deleted account]

I wonder if Lakota came back to read this before voting. She was misinformed as to Romney's current positions and his history with outsourcing, so I hoped that we would highlight these oversights and inspire her to expand her independent research. It's impossible to read everything out there--I know, I've tried and failed miserably--and sometimes it is not apparent to an individual that research is lacking or that entire areas of study have been overlooked until someone else points it out to us.

Karla - posted on 11/06/2012

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Tah, like all my brothers used to say, "technicalities, technicalities."

(maybe Obama was operating a drone from the situation room)

And is that all you got from my long list?... jk. I worked so hard to find all that stuff that Obama did... (research I wish everyone would do -- not jk)

;-)

Tah - posted on 11/03/2012

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No Karla, the navy seals took out bin laden not Obama...not like they were acting on his order or anything. I don't know a president who has suited up and literally took the kill shot himself, but then again, my research and reading suck, LOL

Tah - posted on 11/03/2012

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Also Kelly, that is what my argument has been concerning Romney supporters. I didn't go into it not liking him. I honestly wanted to see what he was offering to the American people. His lies and half-truths concerned me. When I asked Romney supporters to help me understand, as you stated they just wanted to argue about how much Obama hasn't done or is hurting the country. So i asked others, and I have found the same pattern you have, that they are intent on making others, namely Obama, look bad, but are in no way making Romney look appealing. I am just glad to know it is not just me who see this.

Tah - posted on 11/03/2012

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Thank you Kelly. I just read her response and was ready to reply but you have summed it up. I am the "poor thing" who can't read though. That's not what the colleges I have attended and continue to attend say. You talk about my research when yours wasn't even prudent enough to know that Romney was and still is a CEO. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad. I understand why Romney supporters are referred to as having Romnesia. Romney doesn't even do his own research, he relies on media from the right wing for his arguments which is why they are half-cocked lies. So that you don't have to exhaust yourself with any actual reading, or research(which you obviously haven't), I will post a video for you Lakota(By the way your name Lakota Believes seems fitting because obviously you are willing to believe anything Romney or his supporters say). All you have to do is watch. Thanks again for responding Kelly, you saved me and my shoulder lots of typing. Lakota, You have made yourself look less than knowledgeable of your own choice so maybe you should have followed the lead of the others who "won't address my post" and not said anything at all. BTW, I said they don't respond to what I ask about Romney's outsourcing and lies, they respond, but never to what I ask or the evidence I provide, which you still haven't. So in all you have said, you still have not answered my question. Also, I didn't want to argue, I merely wanted to debate.



http://voice4america.com/articles/2012/1...

[deleted account]

Btw, I am on the fence, and I will continue to do research and read every piece of information I can find on all of our candidates until I walk up to the voting booth. I voted for McCain in our last election, and I am not a big fan of everything that Obama has done/failed to do, but over all, I think that he has done an outstanding job in his position and will consider voting for him this time.



Honestly, every time I speak to a Romney supporter, the only way they can make their candidate look good is to make others look bad. I have always believed that if one could not make himself/herself look good without making others look bad, then they are probably not good enough. One should be able to make himself/herself look good without comparison to someone else, without having to bash another person. They should be able to say "I am good because I did this...." and never mention another person. That is not something Romney can do. His only tactic is to say "I am good because Obama did this, and I didn't...."

Lakota - posted on 11/02/2012

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You posted this: "The things that people try to blame on Obama are usually half truths, like what Romney tried to do at the debate when even the moderator stopped and corrected him." Again, you are showing your ignorance. The moderator you are talking about retracted her correction of Romney after the debate. She realized that she was wrong and came out and said so. Look it up please.



"fights for women's right to receive equal pay" Again, showing your inability to read or try to find out the facts. It turned out that after Obama said this in the last debate, he found out that women working on his own campaign made less than the men.



"He killed Bin Laden" He didn't kill Bin Laden - the Navy Seals did. Obama wanted to take the piece of crap to trial. He was advised against it.



That's all I will comment on. Your "research" is a joke.

Lakota - posted on 11/02/2012

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LOL You are so damn funny. Please tell me how Romney could close 160,000 jobs over here or outsource any jobs? He isn't the president. He isn't a CEO of a company. These are numbers that came out today. HA HA HA so ignorant. You didn't prove a point. You want to argue. That's why no one will "address" any of your posts. You can't have a conversation without telling lies or things you hear and think are the truth. If I post something like, say, the facts, you will make stuff up to dispute it. (Like your last post about Romney) I don't like the job Obama has done. If Romney wins and I don't like the job he does. I will vote against him next time.



Try as hard as you can, but, the unemployment numbers and the number of people on food stamps and welfare since Obama has been in office is a fact. It has nothing to do with Bush or Romney or anyone else - only Obama.



LOL you are so funny. Poor thing.

Tah - posted on 11/02/2012

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i see you didn't address any of what i posted on Romney....160,000 of those applicants probably came from the jobs Romney closed over here and outsourced. I know people who are thriving under Obama, they received money for schooling, have jobs and insurance..women too oddly enough..well..thank you for proving my point and best wishes with your choice as well...

Lakota - posted on 11/02/2012

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The jobs numbers has come out: 171,000 new jobs, 170,000 new unemployment papers filled out. Enough said. Romney 2012 That you can't disprove.



All those wonderful things you think Obama has done for women's rights goes straight to hell if a woman loses her job/can't find a job to provide for her family - unless she wants welfare and food stamps. The number of new people of food stamps the last couple of years is disgusting and very sad.



Good luck with your choice.

Amy - posted on 11/01/2012

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i rarely get on here so have to just get in and duck out. it still blows my mind that our "Free democracy" makes you believe you only have two choices for president.

Tah - posted on 11/01/2012

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Has Romney laid out a plan to do these things that I missed. I am not being a hypocrite at all. As I said, Obama is not perfect. I know this because I "research" (why you feel you have to put it in parentheses i don't know, Obama as well, which is why he has my vote. The things that people try to blame on Obama are usually half truths, like what Romney tried to do at the debate when even the moderator stopped and corrected him. I am in the middle of writing a paper so i will name a few things that Obama has done that have helped us, you included. I have posted list all over COM but don't have time to find and copy and paste them or type them out either.



1) He killed Bin Laden(though that wasn't good enough for nay sayers)

2) Made health insurance available to those who otherwise would not have access to it. Myself being in the healthcare field can tell you, it's not pretty seeing someone who makes too much for one insurance and not enough to afford another suffer

3)He refocused the country on education

4)fights for women's rights to choose

5)fights for women's right to receive equal pay

6)helped improve national security by restoring Fema and stepping up border security

7) Is encouraging the fast tracking of green energy programs

8)working for the middle class by....helping with affordable child care, stepping in and cracking down on companies that deny sick pay to workers

9)Through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act , cut taxes for 95% of America's working families

10)Two weeks after taking office, signed Democratic-sponsored Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which increased the number of children covered by health insurance by 4 million.

11)Eliminated the Bush-era practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug companies on price



There is so much more that Obama did, but i'm writing a paper with a post-op shoulder so trying to say a lot with few words...



Some things Romney has lied about. I am not going to even mention the things he is taped and recorded saying that he is then caught changing his position on.Let's go by some of the things that he is accusing Obama of that are lies. SO Romney says



1)"Regulations have quadrupled. The rate of regulations quadrupled under this president." -This isn't true, the number has not quadrupled and is actually almost the same. It has not even doubled.

2)Says President Obama has "doubled" the deficit."-This is also wrong as he actually has the deficit under the amount it was when he came into office, so he has made it better since Bush.

3)"Right now, the (Congressional Budget Office) says up to 20 million people will lose their insurance as Obamacare goes into effect next year." ..HAHAHAHA..don't even know where he got this, but not true.

4)The "48, 49 percent" that supports President Barack Obama are "people who pay no income tax." This is a lie as well, and for some odd reason people who don't pay taxes are supporting him as well, and they don't even realize if they aren't paying taxes, he is referring to them as well when he made this statement, so they are also not his concern...his words, i'm sure you saw the video..and then his horrid clean-up job when caught.

5)When Mitt Romney was governor of Massachusetts, "we didn’t just slow the rate of growth of our government, we actually cut it." -You do realize that when he was running Mass he increased this very thing he is claiming to have cut...

6)Eliminating "Obamacare" ... "saves $95 billion a year." - Nope, if got into office and rolled back "Obama care" it would actually increase the deficit...

7)Only one president has ever cut Medicare for seniors in this country . . . Barack Obama. -Obama did not cut medicare for seniors(where does he get this stuff)..





This is what i do, my "research" if you will. I listen to what they are claiming. I then find it and try to prove or disprove it. There are websites that help you do this. I tend to go with the ones who have no stake in who wins and those who research both candidates. I also pull up policies that they vote for or enact and read them..it's boring but I do it. So I am not uninformed and as I said he is a liar, I only gave 7 examples but there are easily 70, but again i have a post-op shoulder and a paper to finish so done typing on here for now. I hope this helps you understand why i say he lies and am not comfortable having him run a country that I live in without the cover of millions to fall back on. Maybe when the business we are starting makes us millions we will be able to afford having him in office, right now....we are just regular middle class joe's who want a president who cares and relates to us.

Lakota - posted on 11/01/2012

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One more thing, Tah. In your "research", did you notice the outsourced jobs under the Obama administration? Don't just do "research" about Romney and accuse him of sending jobs overseas. LOL Be fair if that's possible.

Lakota - posted on 11/01/2012

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Why wouldn't I or anyone else who will vote for Romney not bring up Obama? I am unhappy with our current president, period. If you read my other post, you would see some of the reasons I will vote for him. Here are some reasons:

1. I believe Romney will improve our economy

2. I believe he will bring jobs to the unemployed

3. We need a businessman in office, not a used car salesman

4. He is promilitary

5. He is for small businesses

6. He is pro life

7. He wants people to work, not keep their hands held out.



There are many others. I'm not trying to persuade you to vote for him. I could care less who you vote for. I'm also not trying to prove you wrong. I could care less about that too. You like Obama, so you would never go out of your way to read or hear anything negative about him.



There are many people who voted for him last time who aren't voting for him this time.



I have a list of what Obama has done too. Don't be a hypocrite please. Why don't you tell me exactly what Romney lied about and tell me why I should vote for Obama. Please do that without the "Romney this" and "Romney that".

Tah - posted on 11/01/2012

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Lakota, i do my research, and I didn't say I was undecided, I said, let's say I am, what can you say to persuade me to his side, and I guess the answer is nothing. You did exactly what all the other Romney supporters do when I ask the same question. Either ignore it, or start in on Obama, or tell me that I am so simpleminded I don't do my own research when his lies are blatant and they sound like a recording of FOX, but I don't research. HA. All you have to do is bring up video on him speaking, and you will find him saying different things concerning the same topics depending on his crowd. He is like a bad boyfriend who tells each girl he is cheating on what they want to hear. SO again, without bringing Obama's name up..tell me why I or anyone should vote for Romney. It's fact that he sent jobs overseas, I found that in my research, so, sell me...why should he be president. Someone please...i have asked this same question all week and I promise I have not gotten one straight answer, just a bunch of, "all politicians lie", "Obama this" and "Obama that". When people ask me what Obama has done, I am able to provide a list...so please...help me see the light, i am trying to be proved wrong here...

Lakota - posted on 11/01/2012

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Tah Dula, if you are undecided, you really need to stop watching the biased liberal media stations. Everything you posted is exactly the lies they want others to believe. Please tell me exactly what Romney has lied about and what he flip flops about. Please do your own research on both candidates before you assume to know the truth.



By the way, I am perfectly ok with Romeny bashing Obama on anything.

Lakota - posted on 11/01/2012

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I am not filthy rich, not even close to that. I can't stomach another 4 years with Obama. I wanted him to do well. I really did. I can no longer stomach hearing him blame Bush for the way the economy is. Yes, there was a mess for Obama to clean up. But, what did he do? He made it so much worse. The number of people out of work, the number of people who lost their jobs, the number of small businesses that closed, the number of people who are now on welfare and food stamps is so damned crazy and disgusting - I can't vote for him. Is Romney perfect? Hell no. But, he loves and respects our military and our country the way it should be loved. Obama doesn't. Romney will get my vote.

Sherri - posted on 11/01/2012

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Well that is exactly what I feel about Obama. I honestly really like Romney. Sorry you don't.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/01/2012

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Sherri, I seriously have no idea why you would want him in office. He is going to destroy America single handedly. Worse than Bush...both Bushes.

Tah - posted on 10/31/2012

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I want to ask, to Romney supporters, Does the fact that he lies publicly and changes his position on the issues not scare you at all?. When I ask Romney supporters about his lies he's spreading about the auto industry, his comment on the 47%, his comment on teachers requesting smaller class sizes and the fact he doesn't think that is needed, and his public flip flopping on the issues every other week, they start right in on Obama. I really just want to know, what is it about him that people love so much and what do his supporters have to say about his blatant lies and comments about americans. I am not saying that other politicians don't lie, but his are so blatant and frequent it should give anyone pause. Also, what about his sending jobs and closing plants here in America? How do you Romney supporters feel about that, is that okay with you when he bashes the president over China? I haven't read all the comments here but I have some time since i'm just lying about healing from surgery. Please someone let's say i'm undecided and I have questions these questions about Romney, how would you defend his actions?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 10/31/2012

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THat is a shame Lakota. Hope you are filthy rich, cause those are the only people he will help.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 10/22/2012

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Looking forward to the debate. i am sure Romney will have nothing new to say, or if he does it will be a new attack on the citizens or insults, and am hoping Obama elaborates on his plans for moving forward.

Julie - posted on 10/21/2012

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I Google the difference between two parties:

Republicans:

-Generally believe it is the responsibility

of citizens to run the government.

-Believe in free market and strong international alliances.

-Believe in the right to bear arms.

-Favor the death penalty.

-Believes abortion is wrong.

-Believe that people determine their own destiny and do not support welfare programs.

-Believe in separation of church and state, but some on the far right feel it is ok to pray in schools.

Democrats:

-Generally believe that it is the government's

responsibility to care for the citizens.

-Believe in structured, regulated markets

and minimal external entanglements.

-Believe in strong gun control.

-Oppose the death penalty.

-Believes in a woman’s right to choose.

-Believe that people should share economic burdens and generally support welfare programs for aid to the poor.

-Believe in separation of church and state.

Hope it helps.

Kristi - posted on 10/18/2012

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Did anybody find the binder? I wanted to see if anybody I knew was in there. Maybe he left it at Planned Parenthood the last time he and his wife were there picking up birth control...oh nope, that can't be it, although this time he did say all women should have access to birth control (must have felt the noose tightening around his neck). Could he have sent it to China along with American jobs and his money? I bet I'm getting warmer.



Douche Bag.

Janice - posted on 10/16/2012

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The number one reason to not vote for Romney is that he is a liar. Any body who has heard him speak will realize he changes his ideas all the time. During the debate he kept yelling about all the bad stuff Obama has done or will do and then said basically he will do the same exact thing. "Obamacare" is actually the same plan that Romney implemented in his home state, Mass., and now he says its bad because its at the federal level vs. the state level. That is just dumb. Additionally, it has been shown that his fiscal policies make no sense. He is going to increase spending on the main thing that has put us in debt, military spending, for no given reason. And the cuts he does discuss, such as eliminating tax loopholes wont come close to covering continued tax breaks for all and the increased military spending. So he is lying about something. He is either going to not decrease the deficit or he is going to have to raise more revenue via taxes. He goes on and on about the billion dollars that Obama has added to the deficit, but he has added much less than Bush did.

Lastly, the Republican party's views on birth control and other women's issues scares me.

I am not a huge Obama supporter, but he has been an okay president and Romney is a bold faced liar. Ever watch the Simpsons? He is Mr Burns! My fear of him getting into power is why I will vote for Obama even thought a third party may truly be the best choice.

America3437 - posted on 10/16/2012

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I don't believe a word Romney says. Don't really believe much of what any politican says but I can believe that Obama is the right choice of the two.



@Sherri, You claim to have all this hate for Obama but can't defend that opinion with reasons.



Romney is a morman and doesn't believe in birth control.

He wants to destroy our National Wildlife Refuge to produce oil.(how about he asks his good buddy Bush if we might possiably use some of his.)

Romney is for the rich and is not concerned with those of us that make 40grand a year and can't get any help from this fucked up government.

Romney is going to bury the middle class and poor and the rich will have control of this country more than they already do.

Children in poor communties will no longer have access to shows like Seasme Street to help them learn their A.B.C's.....Romney sucks and has no since of what this country needs!

He is a perfect example of what this country doesn't need!

I think I'll vote for me!

Everyone has a right to be an american! Make the process of immagration easier so that more people can become American Citizens and legally work and pay taxes.

Legalize Marijuana and tax it.

Equal funding for schools!

Cut pay for ALL politicians.

Bring ALL troops home and have true homland security!

Take better care of our vets, afterall they fought for this country! To many are forgot about and left to fix on their own what the war done to them!

Help ours before sending billions of dollars( which we never had to begin with) to other countries to help their poor. Their are people starving right here in America! Their are people here that are still homeless after Katrina!

[deleted account]

I am sorry your school did not get it's additional funding, but that was not Obama's fault, that would be your state's administration's fault. The funding was there, it was up to the states to distribute it. Perhaps your school had less need than others?



Women can now file criminal charges against companies that pay them less than men. Yes, they will probably loose their jobs, but they will be compensated, and the company will be held responsible and face severe financial penalties--penalties large enough to deter the practice of paying women less in the first place.



It was HIS economic reform plan that went into effect in March of 2009 that added the jobs and economic growth...I don't understand how he cannot take credit for that.



As for your points on Romney (Thank you for adding them)



1. Oil and energy policy. According to the USEIA (US Energy Information Administration) The US EXPORTED more oil than we imported in 2011. We have enough oil, we don't need to risk our environment to explore the Arctic for oil. We just need to keep more of our own, perhaps a better idea would be to heavily tax oil exports as to make in more economical to sell it domestically?

We do need to invest in clean energy, something that Obama has already begun doing. He passed very high tax write offs for hybrid vehicles, passed policy requiring that energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce at least 15% of their energy from renewable energy forces, and regulated carbon dioxide emissions.



2. Romney's immigration plans do absolutely nothing to make it easier for those wishing to immigrate to the US to do so legally. By cutting funding to "Safe Haven" cities, as he calls them, he is literally cutting their ability to do anything about the problem--how can they solve it without funds? Also, it hurts the people who are there legally and have nothing to do with immigration.



3. That whole paragraph is just scary to me. No one person should be able to decide whether or not to take military action--especially with a military force as strong as ours. Those declarations MUST go through congress for the safety not only our own country, but the rest of the world! That safety net is there for a reason. I also don't agree with "enhanced interrogation techniques". That's just another word for "mental torture" as opposed to physical torture.



4. I don't mind his views on guns. They do not differ much from anyone else's views.



5. Romney is not pushing an "across the board 20% tax cut for everyone." Where did you get that information? According to his website, he is pushing an "across the board 20% tax cut in MARGINAL RATES" meaning profit margins. Unless you own a company, you are NOT going to see that tax cut--the owner of the business you work for will, and if you are lucky, that person may pass the savings on to you, but we've tried that in the past, and if I remember correctly, it was not terribly effective.

That said, it also says he plans to eliminate taxes on interest, dividends, and capital gains for those who have an AGI of less than $200,000 which could be very good for small business owners, and those who depend on investments for their lively hood.

But he also wants to repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax, which could hurt the upper middle class, but will definitely lower taxes for the rich who can take advantage of many tax write off opportunities and exemptions....not sure how I feel about that one.

Sherri - posted on 10/15/2012

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It is illegal immigrants I have issue with not the ones that come here and go through the legal channels to become American citizens



No Marina I do not think Romney will be the downfall of the middle class I actually like many things he will try to accomplish. I do however, believe Obama will be the downfall of every class and pray to god we don't have endure another 4yrs of him in office. That man scares the crap out of me for America.



Also Romney doesn't have any changes happening with gun issues other than to banning assault weapons. So I find this a good thing. You don't think Obama will say anything to try and stay in office lie or not. I say HA to that. ALL politicians lie, one isn't any less of a liar then the next.

Claire - posted on 10/15/2012

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"he will destroy the middle class, and make the poor poorer. he doesn't care about the average person. i am the average person. i am not part of the one percent that he favors. He is not the option for me and my family." -Little Miss



Right there with you.



And if he plans to cut taxes 20% how in the hell are we ever gonna get out of this debt with china????



And still wondering why people dont seem to remember history about how all of us are immigrants, unless you are a Native American, and this country was built on immigration. Not saying I'm all for it, but really???

~♥Little Miss - posted on 10/15/2012

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And quite frankly, I don't support the NRA, so I don't want more rights to bare arms and bla bla bla. He is a liar and will say whatever it takes to get into office. He doesn't care about womens rights.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 10/15/2012

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That is fine. You can hate Obama all you want. In any case, he is still the lesser of two evils. You don't believe Romney will destroy America? Hopefully we don't have to find out cause hopefully he will not become president. But don't be fooled. he will destroy the middle class, and make the poor poorer. he doesn't care about the average person. i am the average person. i am not part of the one percent that he favors. He is not the option for me and my family.

Sherri - posted on 10/15/2012

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Romney



Romney has publically stated that we are using too much oil, and he is in favor of exploring alternative energy sources like nuclear, ethanol, biodiesel, and coal gasification. He also favors oil exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. He feels that the United States should be more independent and less reliant on foreign energy resources.



Romney favors a strong legal immigration policy, and he favors deporting illegal aliens who have not followed the proper procedures for entering the country. He is against amnesty for illegal aliens, but at the same time, he does not feel we can round up all of the illegal aliens who have entered the country. He believes that the federal government should cut off funding to sanctuary cities that encourage illegal immigration.



Romney states he believes that the US Congress does not need to officially declare war to take military action. He believes that Guantanamo Bay should stay open. He is opposed to using torture as part of US military interrogation strategies, but he does approve of enhanced interrogation techniques



Romney has stated that he supports the second amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which gives citizens the right to bear arms. Despite his views regarding the second amendment, he is in favor of a ban on assault weapons. He supported the Brady Bill in 1994. In earlier days, Romney did not support the NRA, but in 2008, he stated that he is a member of the NRA. He hunts small game in Utah, but he does believe in some gun restrictions.



In the short term, Romney wants to make permanent the "Bush tax cuts," which lowered the top marginal rate from 39.6 to 35 percent. He would maintain the current rates on interest, capital gains and stock dividends. Going forward, Romney is pushing an "across-the-board 20 percent cut" for everyone.



Romney has promised to begin work to repeal President Obama's Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare") from "day one." But given the legislative climate, the more likely move would be an executive order allowing individual states to opt out of the program.

Sherri - posted on 10/15/2012

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I am not yelling but I am going to post my replies in caps to differentiate your question to my reply.



1. He increased funds for k-12 public schools for construction, maintenance, and high-speed internet access.



OUR SCHOOLS HAVE RECEIVED ZERO EXTRA FUNDING AND ACTUALLY HAVE RECEIVED LESS.



2. He increased pay and benefits for military personnel.



OKAY I WILL GIVE YOU THIS ONE. GOOD THING.



3. He cut and limited the salaries of White House aids to $100,000 annually. (I can see some issues with this one)



I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS ONE



4. He instituted enforcement for equal pay for women employees. (previously, the only recourse for women who were underpaid because of their lack of a dick was civil action).



YA I SERIOUSLY DOUBT YOU WILL 100% SEE THIS. #1 HOW IS IT TRULY PROVEN BECAUSE IN MOST JOBS YOU CAN NOT DISCUSS YOUR PAY OR IT IS INSTANTLY A CAUSE FOR DISMISSAL.



5. He ended the "Stop-Loss" program which kept soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan beyond the end of their enlistment dates. This kept my cousin in Afghanistan nearly 8 months beyond the date he was supposed to be Honorably discharged and sent home. Now, fathers and soldiers like him can go home on time.



ACTUALLY IF NEEDED SOLDIERS SHOULD REMAIN LONGER EVEN IF ENLISTMENT IS TECHNICALLY UP AND YES I HAVE FAMILY IN AFGHANISTAN NOW.



6. His healthcare reform included authorization for small businesses to pool together for group insurance plans. This means that for the first time in 9 years, I can have health insurance without being dropped or refused coverage because of my pre-existing conditions, AND my entire family of 3 is covered for less than $1,500 per month.



YOU ALREADY KNOW MY VIEWS ON THIS



7. He ended the media black out on war casualties and fallen soldiers (though a soldiers family may still opt to have their soldier's homecoming blacked out if they wish to avoid the media). Along the same lines, he instituted a program to cover travel expenses for families of fallen soldiers to be present at their soldier's homecoming at Dover.



HONESTLY DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO COMMENT ON THIS



8. He has added 3.8million jobs since 2009, which is still down from the loss of 4.9million before 2009, but his recovery program did not go into effect until March of 2009, so it did work to an extent.



I DON'T THINK HE PERSONALLY HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS OR DESERVES THE CREDIT FOR IT.



9. Economic growth fell nearly 6% during his first year in office, but has since grown by more than 6%. SAME AS ABOVE



10. He extended unemployment benefits and temporarily suspended taxation on those benefits.



ANY PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE



11. He expanded Medicaid to cover all of the poor. Before, in order to receive medicaid, you had to be poor AND disabled, pregnant, or a child. (this is not in effect yet, but is part of the new healthcare reform)



THIS IS ONE POSITIVE

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