Smacking is 'good' for kids??

Sarah - posted on 01/06/2010 ( 114 moms have responded )

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/health...

What do you think??
My worry is that some parents will now use this study to justify smacking their kids on a regular basis on the grounds that it's 'good' for them.

I'm on the anti smacking side of the argument, tho i do understand that VERY OCCASIONALLY it could be warranted.

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Sarah - posted on 01/19/2010

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Melissa,
There's only about a month between Brianna and my youngest.
What freaks me out is that from my point of view, Shia (my youngest) hasn't done a single thing that i think needed to be rectified with a smack. Not one thing.
To me, she's still a baby, she doesn't understand a lot of things, getting down to her level and explaining (to a point, she's only little lol!) saying 'NO' firmly, is all it takes.

Shia is an absolute angel, she is SUCH a good baby, she gets into things she shouldn't, sure, but there's nothing she's done so far that has made me even contemplate smacking her.

Some of the instances you've said you've smacked Bri, just don't seem to warrant it. If you believe that smacking is a good punishment, then by all means use it SPARINGLY. I would just urge you to pick your battles..........there's really not that many things a 21 month old baby can do that you would have to raise a hand to them, in my opinion.

Esther - posted on 01/15/2010

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I haven't read all the latest posts yet because I just HAD to respond as I feel like I may explode. I cannot believe that being hit with a belt and caning are now being advocated as being acceptable methods of punishment. My GOD. Have we not learned and evolved at all??? Also, no spanking does not equal no discipline. There are other methods that do not use fear or pain as a motivator. And Mel(issa) - You say you were not abused?? Are you kidding me?? How many times have you told us about being dragged around the house by your hair? And your mom breaking your brother's collar bone? If that's not abuse - I am the Queen of Sheba. The fact that you cannot see that is exactly why so many of us worry about your parenting. If you can't see where the line between discipline and abuse is - you need to keep your hands in your pockets.

?? - posted on 01/15/2010

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There is a huge difference between giving a child a rare spank to the bare bottom after many other avenues have been exhausted and giving a toddler a smack because they don't listen the first time.



THAT is what bothers me about studies like this -- there have been people who have said before that they smack their child for the smallest infraction -- NOT EVEN INFRACTION -- just because the kid didn't do what mom wanted RIGHT NOW!!!



THAT is my issue with studies like this. It tells those STUPID PARENTS who use the EASIEST method because it gets an immediate end to the fuss that it's ok to smack the kid.



There is 1 particular complete and total idiot here who has said, time and again, they smack their kid because 1) they won't go to sleep 2) they won't eat 3) they stood up in their chair 4) they were crying. And now she is one of those complete and total idiots that is saying this study says that it's OK to hit her child because it's GOOD FOR THEM.



It's wrong. It's abuse. And it doesn't matter what way you wanna cut, slice and dice it -- it is absolutely 100% the WRONG way to make a child listen to you.

Iris - posted on 01/15/2010

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I look at my children and my aunts. They are all generally the same ages - I spank, she doesnt. My children listen, are quiet when told, eat what is put in front of them, have manners, clean up after them selves, and are generally well behaved. Her children - cry and whine all day, she serves them each their own seperate meals, they dont clean up after themselves, they are rude and snotty, and noisy and dont listen.

Im not saying im the greatest mother in the world - but I think this says alot (and my children aren't perfect either - but i feel have more structure- which isnt all just because i spank either, but i feel it has a lot to do with it).




Sounds more to me like your aunt children are spoiled. I don't spank my girls or smack them, but I don't cook them a different meal, and the older one keeps her room clean and has her chores. Just like you said to Dana, there is a different between abuse and a spanking, there is also a different between spoiling your child and using non-physical discipline. If you give in to a child or tell them one thing and do another, you got a problem, that's just the way it is. If you have rules and discipline to go with it and you stick by it, you got a well behaved child/children. And that doesn't mean you have to use spanking or other physical methods.

Iris - posted on 01/19/2010

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I feel really, really sorry for your daughter Melissa. Like Kylie said, you're not willing to listen. It's your way and everything you do is the "right way". You never are even willing to see things from different perspective. You think that every single post out here that doesn't agree with your own is attack. And still you keep on posting.
Have you ever even sat back and read the posts in the past and seen how many people were ACTUALLY trying to give you an honest advice?
Some still do but I don't know why they even bother anymore...

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Lux - posted on 01/14/2012

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This is exactly the problem with mothers today. They have no backbones with their children and they baby the crap out of them. It's sickening, I think children should be smacked and spanked if they're doing something wrong. You want them to behave, then make them behave. By babying your kids, you're hindering their independence. A child who is capable of a certain task and has that task done for them is not independent.

Charlie - posted on 01/19/2010

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Thank you Veronica for using the correct way in which "spare the rod " was meant to be interpreted .



I cannot say how irritated i get when people use that as their excuse to spank .

Veronica - posted on 01/19/2010

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Cathy - you bring up a good point. We were raised in that belief system of 'spare the rod, spoil the child'. And its because of COM that that view has changed for me. I dont remember who posted it - but they put a link on here for the REAL meaning to that. It said something along the lines of the ROD being a staff of a shepard -- in turn it talked about leading, guiding and teaching/educating with the ROD (not whipping/spanking, etc.) This has helped me change the way I spank, and able to resort to less spankings - because I teach my children now, more than I did -- I am still FOR spanking - as I still see it as useful/last resort -- but its first and foremost teaching, talking, communicating with my kids - time outs, privelages, chores -for consequences/punishment - and then spanking when things go beyond.



I'd like to thank that person for pointing this link out, and I wish i remembered it - i should have bookmarked! ha ha! So I will openly admit that I have learned something and do remain open minded when I am on COM - regardless if i agree or disagree.

Krista - posted on 01/19/2010

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ok heres one Amie one of the anti smackers thinking shes right. Kylie if that is soo wrong why do the chid health professionals say its ok when they are jumping out of a swing? Seriously just beause you dont agree doesnt give you the right to diss everyones elses good parenting skills. I dont care if you have had a 21 month old by child heath nurse has had 4 children and is a professional in the area




I'm sorry, but if a child health nurse told you it was okay to spank your child for jumping out of a swing, then she's a shitty nurse, and is NOT being very professional. I'm not anti-spanking, but I believe it should only be used in very specific circumstances, and even then, rarely. I've dealt with a lot of nurses in my life (my mom's a nurse, as are many of my friends and family members), and none of them advocate spanking a child just because he or she isn't listening to you.



We're only saying this stuff because we're concerned for your daughter. She seems like a lovely, fragile little girl who has had a hard time of it, and I'm concerned that you are resorting to spanking more often than you should, due to being overwhelmed and frustrated sometimes. We all get overwhelmed and frustrated sometimes -- kids can do that to you. But spanking them for minor offenses is not the answer. If you don't want to listen to us, that's fine -- it's your prerogative. However, I would consider seeking a professional opinion BESIDES that of your child health nurse.



(Oh, and just because she's had four kids, that doesn't make her right in everything. I know some people who have had six or seven kids, and they are seriously shitty parents.)

[deleted account]

Quoting Christy:all children are different and all parents are also different. if you don't want to spank your child then by all means, don't do it. if it feels wrong to you, then most likely it is wrong -for you. i don't feel wrong about it at all, i believe i am instilling my daughter with the ability to make a good decision vs. a bad one. i also will in no way say that there aren't other ways to do it for other people and that every parent that doesn't spank will have rotten children, however the ones that i have been exposed to are. perhaps it's a lack of discipline altogether in those cases.


I think we've all seen the TV shows where families have out of control children. It's not a result of no spanking, it's a result of no discipline whatsoever. Enter SuperNanny and suddenly not so.



I'm not anti spanking, I AM anti pro spanking.



I don't think any parent should be proud that they had to use spanking because other methods fail but I don't condemn any parent who uses it as a last resort.



I do however HATE hearing the term "spare the rod, spoil the child" from pro spankers. The implication that if you don't spank your child they are going to end up spoilt little brats. This study if read incorrectly is only going to fuel that type of person.

[deleted account]

I don't see anywhere in this thread that non-spankers are suggesting that the children of spankers should be taken away or any such nonsense. Loureen iterated a point (which I happen to agree with) that spanking is a form of violence, and many of us opposed to spanking as a form of discipline are opposed to violence of any sort in society. As I said-I don't hit my parents, my husband, my dog, myself, my co-workers, or my friends when they do things I don't like, so I don't think I'll hit the little person who counts on me to explain things to him and love him and teach him about the world, either. That's just the way it is for me, partially because of my past. I don't think that all spankers should be thrown in jail or their children taken or blah blah blah...But I don't do it myself, and I don't for one second believe that it makes children "smarter." That's a ridiculous notion. Melissa, you've talked about how your mom smacked the ever living hell out of you as a child. You've also talked about how rebellious you were and how you were always punching her buttons as a teenager. I can't believe that you're not smart enough to see a connection there.

Amie - posted on 01/19/2010

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Uh no Donnelly, that wasn't directed towards pro-spankers that was directly to you solely. Kylie brings up some good points too about specifically you and things you have said and admitted to in past posts all over CoM's. Which I do admit has nothing to do with this post.



But neither does Kylie's post serve to show that an anti-spanking parent is down on ALL pro-spanking parents, she just has an issue with your poor choices in all aspects.

Mel - posted on 01/19/2010

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ok heres one Amie one of the anti smackers thinking shes right. Kylie if that is soo wrong why do the chid health professionals say its ok when they are jumping out of a swing? Seriously just beause you dont agree doesnt give you the right to diss everyones elses good parenting skills. I dont care if you have had a 21 month old by child heath nurse has had 4 children and is a professional in the area

Mel - posted on 01/19/2010

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ok heres one Amie one of the anti smackers thinking shes right. Kylie if that is soo wrong why do the chid health professionals say its ok when they are jumping out of a swing? Seriously just beause you dont agree doesnt give you the right to diss everyones elses good parenting skills. I dont care if you have had a 21 month old by child heath nurse has had 4 children and is a professional in the area

Kylie - posted on 01/19/2010

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OMG Mel you straight up don’t get it. You have posted on the net some of the occasions where you decided smacking was the best way to go and you’ve been told by many mothers, time and again that you were out of line. Smacking a 20 month old for trying to get out of the swing at the park? Wtf is that? and then your telling me you sit down with her and explain to her why mum chose to raise her hand? Its disturbing. Take it from me ..I’m by no means a perfect mum but I have had a 21 month old child before.. What you are doing is not the right thing to do. Please please listen to us…there is a better way. Smacking a 9 month old for crying at bed time?. That was 100% wrong but at least you acknowledged that in the past. It a damn shame you didn’t learn a single thing from your time here on COM. Why are you even here? What the fuck is the point.

Amie - posted on 01/19/2010

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Can someone point out exactly who and what post from a non spanking parent that says if you spank your child you are an abusive wretch who deserves to have their child taken by childrens services? /:)

Not other posts, not other forums, not deleted posts from different threads... THIS thread.

Mel - posted on 01/18/2010

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I do the same thing Christy with my 21 month old after she gets smacked I tell her thats why you dont do those things, or thats what happens when you do something dangerous. But not just in this thread but in many others do I see the same thing as you the anti smackers saying its abusive that people need a visit from child protection etc. Even someone saying to me they hope I bring my child to theStates and smack her so that I get thrown in jail. My partner found this one quite funny but ridiculous at the same time. Alot of us who smack clearly state that we dont care what others do but that this is our way

Pepper - posted on 01/18/2010

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Quoting Christy:



i actually see the exact opposite in this thread. i feel that the pro-SPANKING (notice that i emphasized spanking, because none of us are saying that anything stronger than that is okay!) people have been much less condescending than the anti-spanking side.




I'm sorry Christy, I have to disagree. The only negative attitude I really see that is coming from the anti-spanking (and I repeat that term so we both know we're talking about the same people - I would prefer to refer to them as the non-spankers lol but I'm not going to argue semantics) is after they have explained their methods and why they disagree with physical discipline -- and their reasonings, explanations and posts are met with a (rude) dismissal from people who are pro-spanking.



The pro-spanking side has even so much as assumed they are being targetted with abuse allegations, even though the non-spanking side has repeatedly explained they understand the happy mediums and can understand the last resort efforts that have been elaborated on by mothers who utilize spanking as a method of discipline in their household.



I just wanted to clarify my observations :)

Christy - posted on 01/18/2010

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quoting Pepper:

There is a lack of respect coming from the 'pro-smacking' side that is much more evident, as well as unnecessary, in this conversation.

I see non-smackers saying that they can understand why some might use spanking as a last resort but not seeing the necessity for the use of it in their own homes.

I see pro-smackers [wrongly] saying that the people who disagree with the use of spanking -- in lew of other more modern, patience oriented methods -- automatically believe that people who spank are abusers.



i actually see the exact opposite in this thread. i feel that the pro-SPANKING (notice that i emphasized spanking, because none of us are saying that anything stronger than that is okay!) people have been much less condescending than the anti-spanking side.

personally, i say live and let live, so to speak. i will spank my 18 month old after she has had 3 warnings to change her behavior and has been warned that she will be spanked if she does not do so. the spanking that she receives is one open-handed swat to her fully clothed (but not diapered since she's potty trained and wouldn't feel it with a diaper anyways) rear end. after she receives her spanking i remind her what mommy told her to stop/start doing and how to avoid receiving a spanking in the future. i feel in no way that this is going to damage her in the long run and i fully intend to stop spanking somewhere between the ages of 5 and 8 depending on what effect grounding has on her.

all children are different and all parents are also different. if you don't want to spank your child then by all means, don't do it. if it feels wrong to you, then most likely it is wrong -for you. i don't feel wrong about it at all, i believe i am instilling my daughter with the ability to make a good decision vs. a bad one. i also will in no way say that there aren't other ways to do it for other people and that every parent that doesn't spank will have rotten children, however the ones that i have been exposed to are. perhaps it's a lack of discipline altogether in those cases.

Charlie - posted on 01/18/2010

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If you all know then why OH why do you all seem to need some sort of desperate validation , if you are a great parent then GOOD for you , if you feel the need to explain yourselves all the time ( and i mean you generally ) then look towards your own motives not ours .

Mel - posted on 01/18/2010

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Just because we agree with it doesnt mean we dont respect those who choose not to. I have respect for my father in law he is a great person and very supportive towards me yet he didnt smack. I dont care whether you smack or dont however I think what we are trying to say is that we know we are not abusing and doing nothing wrong so there were people who said it was. But it doesnt matter anyhow. If you dont smack thats great thats your way but its not mine

Charlie - posted on 01/18/2010

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Posted before reading your post V .

Look Its just my opinion , my word is not the b all and end all but i will express it .
:)

Pepper - posted on 01/18/2010

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That is something that has to be a mutual respect, Mel.

There is a lack of respect coming from the 'pro-smacking' side that is much more evident, as well as unnecessary, in this conversation.

I see non-smackers saying that they can understand why some might use spanking as a last resort but not seeing the necessity for the use of it in their own homes.

I see pro-smackers [wrongly] saying that the people who disagree with the use of spanking -- in lew of other more modern, patience oriented methods -- automatically believe that people who spank are abusers.

I do not see anyone saying EVERY occasion of spanking is abuse.

I do see people demanding respect for the over-usage, the excuses to continue and the validation of spanking because of studies such as the one in the OP.

Before you can demand respect, you must give respect.

Charlie - posted on 01/18/2010

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I guess that's where we will differ respect is given where its due and since this type of behavior goes against my morals and ethics to all human beings and shows NO respect for a small helpless child looking for direction in a relatively new world , i am afraid i can have no respect for a person who abuses THEIR power over a child .

Thats my opinion on the matter , anyhoothis is going in circles i stated my reasons for feeling the way .

Veronica - posted on 01/18/2010

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You discipline the way the works for you, i will discipline what is working for me. Agree to disagree.

There are other numerous things that people do and dont do with their children that we can argue about too.

I know that what i am doing isnt abusive, i do not feel that way. I know that there are people who are abusive with their children, and those are the people that need to be stopped. But to out right say that all spanking is bad - isnt a true fact. It has come down to one bad apple spoils the bunch. The abusers make a hard working mother, using necessary discipline look like the fricken ax murderer.

In an earlier post of mine - i misinterpreted a nonspanker from a spoiler/nondisciplinarian -- i reread my post and realized it. If you dont need to or want to use spanking as a discipline, more power to you. This doesnt mean that because i spank that i am lazy, or have bad parenting. Because a parent chooses not to spank, does not mean they dont know how to discipline, and doesnt necessarily mean their kids are hellions. The main reason my way of disciplining works - is not just because i spank, or use time outs, or take away privelages - its because im consistant, i mean what i say, i implement what i say, and i am not wishy washy with it either. When i say no, it means no. When i have to count, they know a consequence will follow when i reach the number i tell them im counting to.

The main reason for this post was not to condemn or judge or tell people they are wrong,etc. -- it was only to say that this stupid study will only open it up to the abusers to think they have a legit excuse to beat on their children. And that is what is wrong about the study - its inconclusive, deceitful, and dangerous.

Mel - posted on 01/18/2010

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lol I think that the people who are against it just need to respect other mothers decisions as Veronica and Kendra and I do.

Charlie - posted on 01/18/2010

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Oh god now we are comparing smacks to third world punishments in which they have little education on civil order , its a sign this debate is dead , no logical posts are being made , it would be like if i said well female spiders eat the males after they mate so its ok to spank because thats far worse , geeeez .

Mel - posted on 01/18/2010

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I dont think thats abusive at all! Geez thats hat my brotehr and I got as punisments thats what most children get. My mine is older thats what she will get. And Veronicas right there are places who puts hands off for stealing and all sorts its hrrible I get the emails about it. Thats what you call abuse. Punishing for bad behaviour isnt

Charlie - posted on 01/18/2010

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I really dont think punishments in third world countries has anything to do with spanking although all equally shitty in my book .

Im confused as you say "its a hard 'slap' on the bare ass cheeks!I would hardly say that was abusive - it probably stings im sure" you then go on to say " and the force isnt that hard "

If it stings and you admittedly say you slap them hard then it "is" hard , by Australian law no mark is necessary to determine if the act is abuse , non-accidental physical contact with intent to hurt .
Hate to break it to you but if it stings it hurts , fat isn't a numbing agent .
*sigh*

Veronica - posted on 01/18/2010

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I was making a point between an abusive act, compared to a tap/smack on the hand -- because ive seen that as well - let the kid find out for themselves - type of attitude.

And Im just not understanding why a person feels spanking is so violent or abusive. What kind of spanking are you referring to? When I was a child - we were beaten. Meaning, whipped with the belt or hand soo hard and soo long, we had welts/bruising,and sometimes bleeding!!
When I spank my children, its a hard 'slap' on the bare ass cheeks! I would hardly say that was abusive - it probably stings im sure - but far from welts/bruising - and the force isnt that hard - in fact my husband thinks i should be spanking them harder.
I dont see this as menacing. And I dont see it as violent. At least the way I am spanking them.

It is definalty not the worst type of punishment either. People chop others hands/fingers off for stealing, ears are cut off, whippings take place, hair pulled, ears pulled/twisted, hangings, lethal injections, electric chair, breaking bones, sicking (sp?) an animal on someone. Etc. Etc. Cops use nightsticks and guns (whether its real or rubber bullets).

As ive said before - spanking isnt the only form of discipline - i use other forms. But i dont think spanking is abusive. And I have no problems spanking my children on their fatty bare ass - i dont see this as abusive either.

Im not going to try and persuade anyone.
This will still go back to the original question - and as a spanker i think the study is not right!

Charlie - posted on 01/18/2010

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I LOVE * extreme sarcasm * how some spankers are under the impression us non spankers let our kids run wild and jam forks into electrical sockets LMAO , i mean Come on this is where a serious lack of education on the matter of discipline shines through .

I think the issue with smacking being the same as hitting , striking , to most of us against it is the fact they are all physical acts of aggression used on a child , i guarantee those who are apposed to all forms of physical , aggressive discipline feel this way because they are against any form of violence especially against children .

The point is what you call insignificant we find abhorrent , You will find most of us feel strongly about violence in society whether its striking a child or an adult .

Just because you (generally ) do not think it abusive and by law a spank isnt abusive it doesn't change the ACT that was committed to those strongly against any from of violence , it might not be abusive and some anti spankers may not find it to be either but it does go against OUR personal morals and ethics .

Mel - posted on 01/18/2010

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It is sad when people cant differentiate betwen abuse and hitting I must say because on here theres some women who believe you smack your child your abusive and should have your child taken off you just because they dont agree with it which is ridiculous. In all the kids who gets smacked in public and at home ive never heard of one of case of someone walking up to them and saying your abusive your kid should be taken off you. I smack in public and no one stares at me of comments to me. Smacking isnt abuse , it is how some parents choose to raise their kids

[deleted account]

I always thought I'd spank my children because that's how I was brought up. My dad whipped us, all of us, with a belt if we'd done something bad. It didn't happen all that often, but when it did, it hurt-and we feared hearing his belt whizz through those loops. Now that I've gotten older and gotten away from home, I find that I'm less and less inclined to think of spanking my child. I don't go around hitting my husband when he does something I don't like. I don't hit my parents. I don't hit myself. I don't hit my dog. I don't hit *anyone.* So I'm not sure why it would suddenly be ok with a child. In my mind, it won't be. I'm not going to say that I'll never ever spank my child, mostly because I don't deal in absolutes-we all do things we don't think we'll ever do. But it will never be my first, or second, or third resort for discipline. I just think there are better ways to get a point across. I credit much of my depression and anxiety as a teen and young adult to my constant need to please my father and my absolute fear of him. I don't want my child to fear me.

Kendra - posted on 01/18/2010

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Maybe to you it all means the same thing, but to most it does not. Saying you can hit a child to me sounds like all's fair. That sounds like abuse. If two people are fighting, they're not smacking each other's hands, they're hitting. It's the way it's taken and the image that comes into mind. If I had posted I hit my child because he wouldn't leave the outlet alone you'd all be in an uproar and some would be looking up DSS right now LOL There is a difference!! He wasn't hurt, I'm pretty sure he would be if I had HIT him. What cracks me up still is I have "hit" my kids as you put is, maybe once or twice each. My point was and still is, not all parents that "hit" are abusive!! And all those kids don't turn out to be aggressive. It's all in how it is done. Period. I will not say you have to spank to raise a good child because I don't believe that either, but I will not say that any kind of physical discipline is abuse. And as I said earlier, whether you use spanking or not, it's the consistency and the understanding and the patience and the love and the support and the listening and all that stuff that raise a good kid. The lack of that stuff is what raises aggressive, angry, bitter, troublesome children. In my case, it was effective. It worked. He wasn't hurt and didn't bother it again. Which means he couldn't get hurt down the road either. "Hitting" shouldn't be a first resort and it should never be done out of anger, but it can be very effective when needed and used appropriately.

Veronica, thank you for understanding. I also do not think you are a bad mom. I read your earlier post and also do not feel you are the one under attack :o)

Veronica - posted on 01/18/2010

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I have done what you did Kendra - Id rather my child get a smack or more on the hand or butt - than to get electrified or zapped. You could have been crueler and just let him get shocked - then he would learn his lesson right? or you could let your child touch the hot stove and get three degree burns - they'll for sure never touch that again. I think if you feel something that insignificant was useful for that situation - i dont see how it was wrong. It wasnt like you were smaking him over the head, or breaking his fingers not to touch. And I know what you mean with the open socket. My hallway is narrow, so i cannot place any furniture in it to cover a socket, and its the main walkway, so i cant block it either. I just dont draw attention to it the best i can, and i dont spend a lot of time on it when they do go near it-- grab him, say no, and go - end of story. If my kids spent more time around it, i would use the same method.

Kylie - posted on 01/18/2010

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hitting striking smacking spanking same thing..Hitting doesn't have to mean backhanding. You can hit a ball..hit the shops etc. And you brought it up in a spanking thread so thought that way your way of saying i spank and my kid turned out great.

Kendra - posted on 01/18/2010

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I never said I credited him being a good kid to him being smacked. Some of you make it sound like there is never a reason to and you'll ruin your kids. My point is it can be done, you don't have to hurt them to make a point and it will not emotionally scar them and they will not go around and beat up everyone they see. I also like how you quickly jumped to the word hitting, like now I'm going around backhanding him. Once again, there is a difference.

Veronica - posted on 01/18/2010

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It has felt like i was part of the attacks on here. I just wanted to clarify my use of spanking - whether anyone agrees with me or not. And I do think there are other and better methods of discipline besides just spanking. But im not anti-spanking by any means.



Seriously though, getting back to the original thread - lol -- I can see how a study like this would be used to justify out of control spanking/abusers -- and i dont think it is something that you can entirely measure - mainly because all kids are different. One form of "punishment" works for one, but not for another. Kids don't like being spanked either, so how can you really take a 'survey' about spanking when anyone and everyone is going to say that spanking hurt, spanking was abusive - they hate their parents for it, etc. etc. Its a right out stupid study, and doesnt seem very precise - all avenues dont sound like they've been explored either. For instance - for the ones that 'benefitted' - what were the spankings like that they received? did they get explanation for why they got a spanking? how hard was the spank, how many did they get at one time? how many did they get a day/week/month? was an object used, or just the parents hand? I just don't think its a very conclusive study - it doesn't seem to have much depth - and if they are going to make claims they should do a more thorough study - instead of something like this that to me is decietful and dangerous - because of the abusive people out there.



Thats my peice.

?? - posted on 01/18/2010

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Erm I just want to clarify something really quick... when I read Kendra's post the first time I thought she said the child was 18 months old, not 8 months lol I wouldn't do that with Gabe at 8 months old because he wouldn't understand that even remotely at 8 months. He would cry, have a fit, walk away, and as soon as I moved he'd be back there anyways.



I would sit in front of the outlet myself for the entire day... duct tape it closed... completely remove the outlet all together... buy a thin / tall book case that secured to the wall... anything really... I wouldn't use that tactic on my 8 month old, but, that's because I know it wouldn't have had the same affect it did with Kendra's baby.



I agree 100% with Kylie - attentive parenting - other aspects of parenting are the reasons that babies grow up to be happy, healthy, wonderful children. The 'spanking' thing isn't anything to give 'credit' too. Those time outs, your patience, your words and understanding are 99% of the process. You should be accrediting all of the other moments in your parenting to those things, not the 1% of it that is/was spanking :)



Gabe knows when Daddy or I say No we mean business because we don't use no all the time, just when it's gotten to the point of moving him 500 times and we can tell he's not getting the point, we'll say No Gabriel and he understands that is when we really mean ok stop it. There's only a few times when we've had to move him that often though.



When we remove him and distract him - even though I know he doesn't understand exactly what I'm saying or what I mean - I explain why I'm moving him "please don't touch ______ it's breakable" - "please don't touch ______ it will hurt you" etc. That is more for my own habit, for when he does understand I am in the habit of saying those things instead of just yelling "NO !!!"



Veronica, I don't see anywhere that anyone has even remotely implied that you're a bad mom or said that you are abusive. I just wanted to point that out in case you are taking some of the harsher posts directed at you, I assure you, they're not ;)

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I think the fact that she had to repeatedly swat his hand for ten minutes before he got upset and gave up would suggest he wasn't upset about being subjected to pain, more of anger at not getting his own way.

Veronica - posted on 01/18/2010

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Justification. When I say that i cool down, and then spank - it does make sense to me. Because i tell them that the spanking is their consequence for their action. I swat their bare rearend as I see fit (like one good swat, or two). Spanking increments are different also. Every day, week and month vary. Every reason/cause to receive a spanking as a consequence is different. There are times where i will go months without having to spank anyone, then there are times where there are more than one in a week. Spanking isnt my first reaction for discipline - time outs are used, household chores (my favorite form of 'punishment') is used, removing toys/privelages also. I constantly talk with my children. I am constantly trying to keep them busy with something. But there are still times when they just dont listen, do something dangerous, or right out wrong when Ive exhausted all other methods. Whether or not you choose to spank, i dont think either side is in the wrong. Just like anything in this world - all situations - every single situation is different, and you cannot judge it unless you are there. Spanking is effective in my household. For others, its not. Does this make me a bad mother? Hell no! I am just DIFFERENT than other mothers.
Go after the real abusers instead of condemning real parents. Because spanking my children does not mean I love them any less - in fact I love them very much, and I see this as a corrective action for their benefit. And within an age range, and within a limit.

Kylie - posted on 01/18/2010

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well i personally think smacking a 8 month old over and over for 10mins is inappropriate. My son also has fascination with turning on and off power outlets, turning off the computer and tv, turning up the sound system etc I have to move him away from those thing when he shows interest in them..my house is pretty baby safe and its is easy enough to move him outside or to another room until he forgets about the power switch or the tv button. I don't use NO often so when i do it works..and there's always dad's No ..that can bring a baby to tears. I don't hit my pets or my older child, my mum or my sister or my husband ..i cannot fathom hitting a little person 1/8th of my size.

I am very happy for you that your son is a great kid and doing well..i wouldn't credit the smacking..your attentive, loving parenting is what makes a good kid.

Kendra - posted on 01/18/2010

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Thanks to Amie and Jo for the understanding. Putting furniture, nor blocking the hallway wasn't an option due to where it was located in the house. And it was the only outlet that intrigued him :o) probably cuz it was the one he saw all the time. My point was just that there is a happy medium somewhere. I also have never needed to spank my kids, but I couldn't have said I never would. I think most moms are the doing the best they can in the way they know best. And the few ones that are not, are the ones that give the rest of us a bad name :o) Anyways, thanks for the responses.

Mel - posted on 01/18/2010

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her mother is my cousin and she didnt have a mother, her mother (my aunt) died at 18, and her father wasnt around very much so I am not sure what her up bringing was like

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But was her mother subject to the same punishment? Maybe the two faced, stuck up element comes from lack of learning to respect others through her method of discipline.

Sarah - posted on 01/18/2010

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That's the thing with smacking tho isn't it.......it carries on, and on, and on.
Personally, i would have a fit if Cadence hit her little sister!!! That's a good point about NOT smacking........your friend seems to think that a good smack is the way to solve problems and will even hit her sisters.

Mel - posted on 01/18/2010

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her oldest is the only adult. She is my age and now has a son of her own, a partner, a house, a car, she is vey two faced and stuck up but that is because that is how her mother was at that age. I personally dont find her to be a very nice person but she is who she is and Im sure she will change as she gets older. She is now very close with her mother and helps her out and talks to her about everything and has similar thinking in it all, she smacks her little sisters when necessary and Im sure she will smack her child too

[deleted account]

I don't know that having done it for 20 years makes it right regardless of how many children who have been raised ... I think a better reflection would be as to what these kids are like as adults as a result of constant spankings.

Mel - posted on 01/18/2010

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I think thats is clear Cathy that smacking should not be done as the first option it should always be last I would hope everyone wit common sense would know that. I know plenty of people who hit first ask questions later my mother included, I dont judge them but no it isnt right. I have a family member who gives her kids massive spankings that even disturb me to listen to and always as a first resort but you dont try and change someones ways who has done it for 20 yrs and raised alot of children. Thats just wrong

[deleted account]

Kendra, I think there is nothing wrong with what you did in that situation with your son. As you said you'd tried every other method to distract him from the danger and he kept returning to it. You obviously weren't doing it to hurt him but used a gentle swat till he realised the game was no longer fun and left it. I don't view that as extreme punishment. It is completely different to someone choosing to spank there baby daily because they won't go to sleep, won't stop crying etc.

As you said

The key is really more whether or not the child has consistent discipline and communication.

When spanking is choosen as the first and easiest option to discipline a disobediant child, communication will be lost.

?? - posted on 01/18/2010

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Kendra I think you've explained your situation really well. And I don't think there's really any women here who would call that example a case of abuse.

I think that your way and Amie's way are both acceptable for your own children. You obviously know how your children will react to either situation. I can understand resorting to the method that you did. If I were in that exact situation there's no saying if I would or would not do the same thing you did. I wouldn't know until that situation happened to me. I think the only thing I might have tried before doing that would be setting something heavy in front of the outlet, that my son couldn't move. Other than that, move, distract and go about doing what you gotta do lol

All of my outlets are hidden, so that's not an issue for us. My son generally listens to no and moving, distraction methods so I've never had to really deal with that. But if it came down too it and I thought that that method would be what would work with him, and I've exhausted other avenues, well then I'd give it a shot.

I tap Gabe's hand when he goes for something he's not supposed too, after the millionth time of saying no and moving him, but it's generally the same feeling if someone would tap you on the shoulder. There's no force to the tap and it serves as a distraction from whatever he was going towards to get his attention to go to his hand and then to my hand and then to me.

As for swatting, we'll see when he's older. I'm going to utilize every manner of discipline that I have available to me, communication and understanding on an age appropriate basis being the focus. Spanking...... I don't think it's for me. I can't see myself getting that mad at him that I want to use physical force on him. And even if I did get that mad at him - I'd leave the room before I acted on it. And then after I came back I can't see myself going "Okay, now that I've calmed down, commere, drop the drawers and I'm going to spank your bottom." It just seems so... methodical that at the ages where it MIGHT be appropriate I think the 'lesson' would be lost in the sheer weirdness of it.

Some parents can utilize spanking in an appropriate, non-abusive manner. Others have no control over it though. Spanking becomes a release for them rather than a lesson for the child. And when it comes to that, that's where spanking isn't spanking anymore, it's abuse.

Amie - posted on 01/17/2010

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Kendra I think you are mistaken. I've just read through this entire thread and that is your first post. You must be thinking of somewhere else.

In answer to your question though, when my children were babies they weren't around open sockets. I have an infant who is now walking (she's 9.5 months) and she doesn't get to the sockets. We have gates up where she shouldn't be, down the hallway is one of those places. The rest of the sockets are hidden behind furniture, shelving units, my computer desk, etc. Things she can not get around. Those baby socket plugs have always been a bad idea in my mind. If you bring attention to something a child WILL want to play with it. Ignore it and it's a non-issue, especially at that age. When they are old enough to understand (and do play with them) then you can explain it to them. Again a simple fix. I managed to teach my children not to do something, that said thing is dangerous and all without every laying my hands on them.

It's not an all or nothing debate. For some it is, I have conceded in some very rare circumstances I possibly can understand another parent having to spank their child. I have never had to so because of how I parent. I chose never to hit my children from the get go. Spanking used to be universally known as the best way to keep your kids in line. While it's still used more and more parents are using child based logic to get through to their kids.

After all I'd go ballistic on the person who thought they could teach me anything by swatting me and saying no. Why should a child have to put up with it?

Kendra - posted on 01/17/2010

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OK....ya all didn't like my post last time but oh well. Here we go again :o) First, both sides here are acting like an all or nothing. I am pro-swatting discipline so you know who's team I'm on here. But I also understand that you can raise well behaved, healthy, well adjusted children without spanking. And shockingly, you can also raise well behaved, healthy, well adjusted children with spanking. It's quite amazing if you stop to realize that this is one small piece of their childhood. The key is really more whether or not the child has consistent discipline and communication. Time outs could also be considered emotional abuse if you put them in the corner for hours at a time with no explanation. But people don't assume because you're using time outs that you're leaving them there all day long. For some reason when it's about spanking it's assumed we're all flogging our kids.

As I stated on my previous post, I doubt my kids could even remember because I used it when they were babies, as it was put. My eight month old, yes a baby, had a fascination with the electrical socket in the hallway. Yes it had a cover on it and yes he could get it out. It took him about 2 seconds to do. I spent numerous trips going up to him, getting down to his level, telling him "NO" in a firm voice and then picking him up and taking him to his bedroom, or to where his brother was, or his grandpa, or a new cool toy or by me or ANYWHERE but the hallway. And he would gladly play and sit and do whatever you were doing, but the minute you put him down or stopped entertaining him, he went straight back to that outlet. Got up and walked right over. So I eventualloy just sat down next to that outlet and every time he touched it I smacked or tapped his hand and told him "NO" and he looked at me and he touched it again and again I smacked his hand and told him "NO" and we repeated this process for about ten minutes until I won and he walked away. So to all you "no touching" parents, how would've you recommended teaching an eight month old not to do that? His hand wasn't red, no bruising, no bleeding, no tears until the anger set in when he realized I wasn't giving up. Seriously, that's abuse? Cuz he's under a year? You can't explain to him that it's dangerous, you can't ground him or take away his favorite toy, you could put him in time out but he's not going to understand that either. So honestly, if I'm so wrong, what should I have done? Because I believe I did the right thing. He never touched that outlet again and that made him a SAFE baby.

BTW, my son is ten now. Very polite, very friendly, top of his class, smarter than a whip, teacher's rave about him every year, never had a problem with him being aggressive in ANY way shape or form. Short of the fact that he is still stubborn as hell and thinks he already knows everything, he is all around a great kid!! By far my easiest!

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