Smoker's need not apply

Stifler's - posted on 12/23/2010

I have been known to smoke when I'm drinking. LOL. Not that I remember this.

Sherri - posted on 12/23/2010

I have 5 a day. The only time I smoke more than that is if I am at a party drinking and chatting.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/23/2010

You both call THAT smoking? Lol....quitters!

Chatty - posted on 12/23/2010

Oh, ya....well I only have two a day.....nah, nah, nah, nah...nah! I'm better than you!

Isobel - posted on 12/23/2010

I believe that Mary N hit the nail on the head...this situation is NOT a result of the hospital worrying about the affects of third hand smoke...it's about their insurance saying that smokers are too expensive to cover. There's no difference between refusing a job to a smoker or refusing a job to a person who is obese...or has high blood pressure, or has dangerous hobbies.

I have 3 cigarettes per day. If I had a shower before work, there would be absolutely NO cause for concern with the people I come in contact with in regards to third hand smoke.

Some of the most brilliant people I have known have been smokers...it doesn't mean you are stupid...it means that you made a poor decision when you were very young (most likely)

Vegemite - posted on 12/23/2010

As a business owner I would not have my employees smoking at work. It's not fair on me to have to pay someone to stand around smoking or driving my customers away because they smell. What they do on their own time is their choice as long as it doesn't effect my income, this includes breaks at work.

Stifler's - posted on 12/23/2010

i agree with dana and nicole, you have to look like a professional at work. that means abiding by the bylaws of your work place and looking presentable.

Nicole - posted on 12/23/2010

Smoking is a choice (or at least for most it began with a choice before the addiction set in) just as getting piercings, wearing a certain hairstyle, having tattoos, wearing make-up, drinking alcohol, etc. and, therefore, may have consequences for choosing said things. But being a certain gender or race, having a disability, etc. are NOT choices that an individual can make and can not be disqualified for employment based on those.



This may be an extreme decision to some, but in the end, this is a health care establishment and should, therefore, set an example of health and wellness. This would apply to those representing the establishment, too (i.e. employees).

Danielle - posted on 12/23/2010

I think it's overboard. As long as the smoking isn't interferring with their work habits it really isn't the employers business. A nicotine test is just a violation of privacy in my opinion.

Chatty - posted on 12/23/2010

People might not like it, they might think it's extreme, but none of that matters because the hospital is within their rights.

Stifler's - posted on 12/23/2010

You can have tatts and piercings just you're supposed to be able to cover them up. i worked in a place where we were only allowed one earring in the lobe of each ear! the boss actually yelled at me once for forgetting to take the second one out

Becky - posted on 12/23/2010

But Barb makes a good point. Having tatoos and facial piercings are legal too, but there are a lot of employers out there who won't hire you if you have them or who will make you remove them/cover them up. So, if refusing to hire someone, in a health care setting, who smokes, is discrimination, then refusing to hire a professional who has 5 rings in his face is discrimination too. But I don't see anyone protesting that.

Jaime - posted on 12/23/2010

Private institutions, businesses, companies have the RIGHT to set their own policies, codes and standards. We see it everywhere. This hospital is not saying that people can't smoke, they are saying that people working for them can't smoke if they want to work for them because it's against their policy as health care professionals. It's not infringing on anyone's rights.

Sherri - posted on 12/23/2010

Okay smoking is LEGAL so the fact that an potential employer can not hire you because you do something that is completely legal should be against the law. I am sorry that is just wrong.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/23/2010

@ Amber " i wouldn't want someone caring for me who is stupid enough to smoke when they are doctors"

Really??? You are going to call Dr.s and Nurses who have earned their medical degress stupid? Really???? Just becouse you don't agree with what someone does in there life does not automatically make them "stupid". I smoked, and I will smoke when I am done breastfeeding. I do not appreciate being called stupid.

This is an individuals choice and should not be the patients choice. You are going to be in their care for a very short period of time in most cases....so they should quit smoking becouse YOU don't think they should? Even though you may have no idea that they do??? I highly doubt that many of the very intelligent nurses and Dr's smell like fresh cigarettes. First off, most hospitals are smoke free zones,, so for someone to run of campus for a "quick smoke" is not happening. Also, shifts are so long...when are they going to? It would be difficult, but I am sure not impossible.

As far as the construction workers, well it is up to the foreman or whomever is in charge to let people off of the campus to smoke. They are contracted by the hospital and need to follow the rules when they are onsite, but I highly doubt it will dictate their actions once they are off the clock.

Stifler's - posted on 12/23/2010

i was generalising lol but so many people who have studied and are professionals still smoke, it weirds me out.

Hannah - posted on 12/23/2010

I decided to do some digging on this hospital and found a really good article on this subject of the OP.

Also, in another article I found, any employee who currently worked at the hospital BEFORE the no smoking hire ban will be "grandfathered" and of which 1000 ish employees who work there, only about 100 smoke.

http://www.newburyportnews.com/local/x18...

http://www.boston.com/business/healthcar...

Teresa - posted on 12/23/2010

Barb, I didn't say anything when one of the nurses that cared for me and my newborn twins reeked. I was too worried about offending anyone that I just 'sucked it up' and it sucked!

Stifler's - posted on 12/23/2010

everyone in the health profession smokes hahahaha it's so annoying

Stifler's - posted on 12/23/2010

I think this is crap... nicotine testing? Smoking isn't illegal. They can ban smoking on the premises anyway, so who cares what they do in their free time.

Amber - posted on 12/23/2010

makes sense. it;s a hospital for one thing, i wouldn't want someone caring for me who is stupid enough to smoke when they are doctors and have seen first hand what it will do to you. i wouldn't let a morbidly obese person give me health treatment or advice, so why would you let someone who smokes make sure you're healthy? it's so contractory.

Barb - posted on 12/23/2010

Just a quick question though. Honestly, if a nurse or aide was hovering over you and reeked of smoke, would you say something? would you say, "excuse me, the smell of your cigarette smoke is really bothering me, could someone else do this, or could you go wash up?" Or would you just put up with it and never say a word?

If that was your child getting that third hand some, what would you do?

Barb - posted on 12/23/2010

Employers make demands on employees lives all the time. It is the persons choice to accept it or find another job. You don't see facial tattoos or facial piercings on news anchors or reporters or imagine an alcoholic being your child's bus driver. Employers have a right to choose who they want to hire or fire.

When contractors win jobs, they have their employees follow the same guidelines the customer employees do. Working in a food plant i had to wear hairnets. When i did work in special areas of the hospitals i had to change out into sterile attire.

Working at the state hospital the campus was smoke free, you could not bring cigarettes onto the grounds, they could not be in your vehicle because the mental patients would break into your vehicle and steal them and they didn't want the patients to injure themselves, screw your car.

The patients must live there and are not allowed to smoke because it is a smoke free campus. They are given drugs and smoking cessation aids to help them overcome the habit.

I didn't smoke so it wasn't a big deal for me, but other guys had issues and the foremen would run them off the job, not just the electricians but all the trades.

Being a recent guest of our local hospital, i don't recall any strong perfumes, fabric softeners on the bedding, strong deodorant, or other scents. I just recall the "hospital smell"

Jenny - posted on 12/23/2010

Marina, at every job I've had in a number of different industries the smokers took more breaks than the non-smokers. Always just running out for a quick puff but it sure adds up to a lot of lost productivity over the weeks and months. I'm not saying they were being sneaky about it either. It was a different standard.

Becky - posted on 12/23/2010

Sorry if I'm repeating someone, I haven't read past the first page yet. But this is not comparable to not hiring based on drinking, gambling and how many sex partners you have. All of those are personal choices that have no effect on anyone but yourself and maybe your family/sex partners. Smoking can potentially have a negative health effect on anyone you come into contact with. In a bar, sure, I'd say not hiring someone who smoked was ridiculous. But in a health care setting, I think it's well within reason.
And I have never come accross a nurse in the hospital who had strong perfume or deodorant or hairspray. In fact, I think (although I'm not sure) that our hospitals here are scent-free when it comes to employees. We were even asked not to bring strongly scented stuff to the hospital when I had my babies.

Meghan - posted on 12/23/2010

I dunno. I can see it from the third hand smoke view. It is gross and I would prefer not to have someone just go out for a fag then come change my IV line. But at the same time I don't really think it is fair to say that one can't smoke on their free time. *shrug*

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/23/2010

Thanks Kati, I appreciate the clarification.

Rosie - posted on 12/23/2010

that would be a scary thought mary, lol!

Mary - posted on 12/23/2010

Well, I will say this...if we limited healthcare jobs to only those who were non-smokers and caffeine free, hospitals would be forced to close to to an inability to staff.

Not to mention, I would NOT want to be a patient in any hospital where coffee was banned from the hours of 11p-7am!

Rosie - posted on 12/23/2010

no marina i was totally joking!! it had nothing to do with you, i was just bored and trying to be a smartass! sorry if i offended!! i actually want to agree with you, i just feel the hospital has the right to hire whomever their little hearts desire, and if they desire non smokers-well so be it. anyhoo, sorry for the confusion!! :)

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/23/2010

Man...yeah make all the nurses quit smoking in an already intense and highly demanding situation and high stress situations.....

Tara - posted on 12/23/2010

too much caffeine is bad for people, it can cause and contribute to tension, stress and an inability to concentrate. When will potential employees be required to submit to a routine caffeine test?? The risks involved by allowing people to consume as much coffee as they want at work could be horrid. Nurses with jittery hands, doctors thinking about golf and sex instead of surgery, orderlies running amok with sick people in wheel chairs, etc. etc.
And they not only allow coffee to be consumed, they SELL it on site. That seems a lot like enabling caffeine addicts. And have you ever smelled the breath of a nurse as they bend over you to do whatever they need to do? The smell of coffee on someone's breath is equally as off putting to me as smoke. I just feel that either way, people are going to be pissed off. But in the spirit of the season I say, let them ban smokers, and let the smokers be mad enough to apply elsewhere!
:)

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/23/2010

I agree, we were having a great debate. I was really enjoying it. Shopping got crowded and sucky quick.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/23/2010

Ok, it's cool Dana. I figured you guys were goofing, then I saw Kati's comment, and got offended that anyone may have thought that was my stance.

Chatty - posted on 12/23/2010

I'm sorry, Marina -- I was TOTALLY joking.....I just thought we were having such a good debate and then you had to peace out and it was just SARA and I. Sara and I were joking around and I actually left before Kati showed up and made that comment. I just read her comment now.... I'm not sure what comments upset you but I promise that was not my intent.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/23/2010

Jenny "commie Canadian" How the hell is this enabling smokers? I have never been enabled at a work place...no one has handed me a free pack of cigarettes, no one has ever pointed me to a smokers loungs, and no one has said "since you are a smoker, go out every hour for a smoke break"

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/23/2010

THANK YOU MARY AND AMANDA! Mary, I would also like to point out patients and visitors...they can smoke up a chimney before coming and stink up a whole room! I am so glad you pointed out the different people that would NOT be under this ruling, law..whatever you call it.

Dana and Kati...I am not sure if you were trying to be funny after I left, but I found Kati's comments to be completely rude. If you have read any of my comments, then you would see that was not my stance. If you are going to impersonate me do it with style girls!

Tara - posted on 12/23/2010

I honestly feel it is within an employers rights to determine that they will not hire any smokers from here on out.
I don't like the idea of a blood test, so even though I don't smoke, I wouldn't apply based on that requirement. I could see drug testing for people, or testing for steroids in certain sports, but testing for a legal substance in order to disqualify you from a job, doesn't sit right with me.
But.. it is within their right to do so, so... for people who don't like that, apply somewhere else.
I just think the idea of blood work to get a job goes beyond regular employee screening, so now all applicants must submit to a nicotine test. But...it's still their choice whether they submit to it or apply somewhere else.
So.. in case none of that was clear, lol that hospital can do it if they want, they will be eliminating a portion of the employable public, but if they want to, that is their choice.
I wouldn't apply, and I don't smoke, why? Cause I think taking a blood test for a legal substance is wrong.

Jenn - posted on 12/23/2010

I don't think it would be illegal to say that, but it does seem a tad extreme. I do know that you're not allowed to smoke on hospital grounds here anymore - or most places for that matter.

Jenny - posted on 12/23/2010

I was thinking of smoking on the job, like at lunch time. I also do not care what an adult does in their private time. I meant no smoking on the jobsite period for health care workers.

Amanda - posted on 12/23/2010

This is absolutley ridiculous in my opinion! I am a smoker. Do I smoke in my house or car? No...do I smoke around my children no.,..do I wash my clothes and hair and body after each cigarette? NO...and are my children going to grow up with allergies or asthma? Well yea there are possibilities, but I doubt it's going to be from JUST my smoking! And as far as banning it on the hospital property, okay that's fine. Here in Iowa you can't smoke in resturants, stores, or outside within so many feet of public places, or on the hospital or college campus...but not hiring an employee because they smoke?!?! Wow...that's some garbage if I ever heard it...I mean how much more personal are peopel trying to be?!?! What's next the gov't placing cameras in a home where children are present and the parents or parent smokes in the house? That's so stupid! It's not their lifes so why fucking worry what they do to themselves? And what about alcoholics? Or gamblers who blow all their money and leave their family bankrupt?! Don't hire them either?! I mean seriously look at how stupid it sounds?! I mean yes I agree with the ladies pointing out the fact that I wouldn't like people hovering over me smelling like an ashtray, but by not being allowed to smoke on the property and changing clothes when they get to work than how would you really smell it? It's like smelling someone in the store in front of you who smells like Body Odor, would you refuse their employment because of their body odor? This ban is ridiculous and makes me so annoyed even hearing that people are actually enforcing it...narrow minded assholes who think they are better than everyone else, trying to save the world one non smoker at a time...wow don't get me started! I am done with this discussion before I really get angry! Ps yes I am a smoker...your point?!?!

Mary - posted on 12/23/2010

The problem I have with this falls into that "where do you draw the line?" question. Today we're not hiring smokers. Next year, we plan to not hire people with a BMI over __. We need to project a healthy image for our patients, and obese nurses/doctors/pharmacists/sonographers/housekeepers do not provide good role models. (not to mention the added health insurance costs they produce).

I'm all for banning smoking anywhere on the campus by anyone. But not hiring people who smoke outside of there work environment? No, I am bothered by an employer who tries to dictate what you do on your own time, no matter what it is.

For those of you who support this based on the notion of protecting patients from third-hand smoke exposure....this measure will not accomplish that. Those who are already employed and smoke will still be there. You should also be aware that not all the people you encounter are hospital employees. Most physicians are not employees of the hospital; they are self-employed "businesses" that have privileges to practice at that hospital. Even the ones that do not see patients outside of the hospital setting, such as ER docs or anesthesiologists are usually a private group that contracts with the hospital to provide their services. They are not subjected to the same rules, regulations or HR policies that hospital employees are. As well, most hospitals contract out the housekeeping and food services - these people are not hospital employees either, and therefore exempt from this policy. And last but not least...many hospitals are dependent upon outside agencies to fill critical vacancies that arise within nursing, respiratory therapists, techs, and a host of other direct patient care givers. If you have an agency nurse instead of one employed by the hospital, she very well could have been smoking in her car on her way to work.

Pamela - posted on 12/23/2010

I disagree with that. Its just like being racist only with habbits instead. If they do not want anyone smoking there then they can take all smoking privileges off their property. no smoking in cars on their parking lot either, and so on.

Rosie - posted on 12/23/2010

smoking should be allowed anywhere, and we should be able to blow smoke up anybodies arse we want to all the time-ESPECIALLY at a hospital. hows that for a disagreement!! ;P

Chatty - posted on 12/23/2010

Ok, let's do this.....which side do you want? Do you wanna be Marina? ;)

Jenny - posted on 12/23/2010

I think it's great. It seems wrong to me to enable smokers in the first place at a hospital. And the smell drives me nuts, I wouldn't want that around me while I'm recuperating, sick or injured. I'd feel differently if this were a pub or retail store but smoking has no place in health care.

On a side note I'm thinking of taking smoking back up so I can have a 5 minute break every hour or so.

Sara - posted on 12/23/2010

Me too!

Chatty - posted on 12/23/2010

Too bad more people aren't commenting, Sara....I'd love to debate this more! ;)

Chatty - posted on 12/23/2010

Marina, I will agree that IF they enforce the ban on already employees, THAT would be an infringement on their rights. They weren't hired under the same pretext and therefore, in my opinion, it would be wrong. I'm sure the hospital knows that they can't fire any already employees for smoking once a NEW, RECENT ban comes into affect.

Sara - posted on 12/23/2010

Hey, it's great to have an opposing viewpoint, so I'm glad that you're making your arguments! I just don't agree! :0

I'm pretty sure that in reading more about this from other sources besides the link in the OP, it was stated that the hospital is beginning this policy with new hires, hoping to eventually move to all employees being non-smoking (as in people will leave or retire). It does not plan to take any action against current employees who smoke, but it does offer free smoking cessation programs to current employees from what I understand.