Smoking - is it abuse when kids are around?

Vera - posted on 05/05/2011 ( 113 moms have responded )

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Ok so I’m sure I’ll get slammed for this one…

There has been so much talk and debate over spanking being abuse, and locking kids inside a room being abuse etc… Does anyone think parents who smoke indoors or in their vehicles with their kids inside be charged with abuse?

Why I ask… I moved very recently to TX - HUGE change but one major thing I just don’t get is the smoking indoors here. While I do understand having freedom to do what ever - there are clouds of smoke with kids sitting feet away trying to eat… seriously??!

There are so many family restraints here that allow indoor smoking – we can’t eat at those for principal. Not to mention how many people I notice have their windows rolled up and like 3 or 4 kids in a car just puffin away.

So I think that if parents are going to smoke they should be required to do so outside away from the kids with the windows to the house shut so the kids won’t be in contact with it.

I DO NOT believe they should ban smoking – that is a persons right to do what ever but I do believe there should be bans on public places and inside homes and vehicles where children would be present – to help preserve the child’s health.

Yes, I do know that you can transfer things from your skin or clothes but it isn’t nearly as bad as breathing it. To me the studies on second hand smoke and linking to the serious health risks that come with it are so serious they need to do something to wake these parents and businesses up!

Wither I smoke or not, and if I did I would NEVER smoke indoors just due to the stench that would be on my furniture and clothes not to mention how my car would smell – I would only smoke outside away from my kids.

Even on the news a guy was in his recliner puffing away feet kicked up and his little toddler maybe 1.5 years old was standing there trying to get his attention as he talked to the cameras – God I feel so bad for that baby I just wanted to hold her. From what my husband said it is pretty much normal – here anyway. To me that is truly abuse…. Puffin away killing your kid while you watch T.V. with out a care in the world, ashing on her head.

This doctor was speaking about this very topic…
http://www.smoking-cessation.org/content...
and another link though these are bias towards nonsmokers…
http://no-smoking.org/june06/06-20-06-1....

So would love to see and hear any thoughts the rest of the moms have – those that DO and DON’T smoke… and please don’t make this about banning smoking all together.. I just want to know if anyone else agrees they should make it illegal to smoke in closed places with children and if a parent or person ignores this should they be charge with abuse - including businesses (since it is a public place where a child would be alowed)

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Rosie - posted on 05/05/2011

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no i don't believe it's abuse. do i think it's right? hell no. but... if it's abuse than feeding your kid anything bad for them is abuse as well.

as a person who was physically abused as a very young child, i kinda find it ridiculous that it's even put in the same catagory.

Shannintipton - posted on 05/05/2011

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I think smoking is an option, breathing isnt. Dont smoke around your kids. {:+)

Lady Heather - posted on 05/05/2011

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Also up here people smoke outside when it's -40. If they can smoke in the bitter freezing cold with a risk of frostbite, they can smoke in the heat. Suck it up. No pun intended.

Sara - posted on 05/05/2011

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I'm not sure if it constitutes child abuse, but I do believe that it negatively impacts a child's heath and it's not something they have any choice about, so parents shouldn't do it.



We have emissions standards for automobiles but we don't have clean-air quality standards for the air that children breathe in their own home. I think there's something wrong with that.

[deleted account]

If you are suffocating your child it's abuse, right?



To some people, being forced to inhale cigarrette smoke is like a form of slow suffocation (as my neighbors are smoking at this moment and I feel like I'm coughing up a lung... no escape either)......



I'm certainly not saying it's the same as being whipped w/ a fishing rod or anything, but if you are sitting there coughing and choking, barely able to breathe, and can't get away.... it certainly feels like abuse on some level. And I'm an adult... ;)

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~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/07/2012

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*****MoD Alert******

This thread is OLD! I am locking it, if you would like to start another one, please feel free.

~DM MoD Little Miss~

Julie - posted on 07/06/2012

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OMG, you really believe smoking does not cause cancer? Read the damn CIGARETTE PACKAGE. Even the companies who MAKE the smokes tell you it does.

Further more, If you smoke in a car with kids, it is WITH INTENT. And all your other lame attempts at comparisons, IF done intentionally would also be considered a crime.

Second hand smoke is MORE DANGEROUS than the to the person who directly inhales the tobacco themselves. This is why it is not OK

Erin - posted on 07/06/2012

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No. If it is then putting kids in a car with carbon monixide as possible poisoning is also abuse, letting them outside in pullted cities like Chicago is abuse, many foods are believed to cause cancel so that'd be abuse, sunlight causes skin cancer so allowing children into the sun would be abuse, a child could fall off playground equipment and die so perhaps playgrounds constitute abuse. Camp fires release poisonous gas so that should be illega too. A child could drown in a pool so swimming should constitute abuse. When a person smokes in a car with the window open the smoke all goes out the window contrary to rediculous ads showing otherwise.

Also for future reference there is actually no proof that smoking causes any kind of cancer. Almost all repiratory diseases are caused by the Rhinovirius which they are working on a vaccine for including bronchitis, pnemonia, common cold et. The same cancers are present on a regular basis in people who never smoke and never been around smoke at all. The smoke from a fire burning with leaves has higher concentrations of carbon monoxide than a pack of cigarrettes does. All my children are perfectly healthy in fact they almost never get sick, not flu not cold, not coughs, no ear infections nothing. Those illnesses are caused by viruses and bacteria, and malfunctions of the body. People just want to blame smoking because it's this decades "evil". In prior decades it was alcohol, and Marijuana. I wrote a thesis on the Illegalization of Marijuana, they also made unscientific rediculous unproven claims about it and also used racism to sell the illegalization. I think moms have had enough of being accused of abusing their kids. Enough is enough. It's already hard enough being told everything you do is wrong and having good two shoes ascerting kids should be separated from their loved ones over things others don't like.

Julie - posted on 07/05/2012

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YES. Smoking indoor, or in closed car spaces is considered second hand smoking, and SECOND HAND SMOKE KILLS. It doesn't just kill the smoker. But the children exposed to that smoke, who have no voice, and no rights. They are getting sick, needing medical care, which cost us all money. And many potentially die from asthma, lung disease or cancer.

I had a freind in High School whose dream was to become an Air Force Pilot. He had never smoked a day in his life. But when he went to take his physical to fly, he FAILED. His lungs were that of one who smoked! All because he grew up in a household with smokers. His dreams, aspirations, and all he worked for taken away from him. For what? It is selfish, ignorant and completely unnecessary to expose children, or even adults for that matter to cancerous carcinogens. In this day and age when we all should know better.

Jeannette - posted on 11/07/2011

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Okay, I have never smoked around my kids because I am not a smoker. I just don't like it. However, growing up, my father and his family smoked around the kids all of the time. I never thought of it as abuse though. I never thought my parents were trying to kill me. My dad/grandpa/aunts/uncles didn't keep windows up while they smoked. I seriously don't understand how people who do smoke can smoke with the windows up.
My husband started smoking cigars about 10 years ago and he does it outside, a few times a year. He will be at a bar or on our back deck when he smokes. Granted, our children are not locked up with him, but if they go spend time outside with him, I don't mind. He's pretty considerate about sitting so the wind doesn't blow the smoke in our faces. Our children do not consider him abusive.
I guess if you are locking your kids up in your smoke, that could be construed as an abuse, BUT with so many broken families it is difficult for me to jump on a bandwagon here. For one, children are not with their parents for many hours during the week and there are some irresponsible parents out there. There choice to smoke in front of their kids is not enough for me to want them fined or anything because the time spent in the car is not much usually.

Tammy - posted on 05/11/2011

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Im not sure where to find it jodi. I forgot who actually made the commercial. i would look for it on youtube but video sucks on the computer im on..
but i remember my neighbors would smoke outside and one day i was running around the house with a peice of licorice in my mouth pretending i was smoking haha i was only like 6 or 7. My mother got so mad at me!!! that was the last time i ever did that.

Jodi - posted on 05/11/2011

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I want to see it - know where I might be able to see it???

One of the BIGGEST reasons my husband and I gave up. We woudl go outside for a cigarette and our daughter followed us picked up a stick and pretended to have a cigarette. Um, FREAK OUT!!!

But on the other end, my best friend at school has parents who both smoke, and she HATES it. She has NEVER smoked, she condemns it until she is blue in the face, and I remember as a teenager, she used to steal their cigarettes when she found them and destroy them. She never got in trouble for doing that. And she has never smoked.

Tammy - posted on 05/11/2011

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Hah i know! And its crazy cause parents still smoke infront of teenagers who hate it (and might not say anything).. but just because they're older doesnt mean theyr immune to it. Sure, they have an opinion and voice and are old enough to tell their parents but some people look at that as disrespect to the parents.
Mm i dunno just a thought

Giacci - posted on 05/11/2011

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IM a smoker and I dont EVER smoke around my kids. yes i smoked when i was pregnant because i was young and stupid. my son now has asthma because of it. I dont smoke in my house and the only time I smoke in my car is when im alone with the windows open. In jersey (where i live) its actually illegal to smoke in the car with anyone under the age of 18. when i want to go have a cig i make sure my newborn is asleep and i take my2 year old out in the backyard to play while i have one. or ill take them for a walk. smoking around kids is selfish DO NOT DO IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.....!!!!

Tammy - posted on 05/11/2011

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Speaking of commercials!
I like the commercial where the mom was dropping her son off at school but she was smoking in the car (he was in like high school so he's a lot older) and he obviously hated it but didnt say anything. and when she stopped and he opened the door to leave he farts and just closes the door and walks away.

K. - posted on 05/10/2011

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Sorry, but the government isn't going to tell me what I can and can't do in my house or car if it's within the limits of the law. With that being said, let me just say that I don't smoke in either. I don't care if it's 30 degrees below zero I'm puffing outside. And definitely not in the car. I can't help but thinking about this commercial where the dad was driving in the car with his son and was blowing bubbles (the dad was), and he had the window down but a majority of the bubbles were flying all over the backseat where the little boy was. So, no I don't do it.

Jane - posted on 05/10/2011

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Yes, if a kid has asthma or respiratory problems AND the parent smokes in front of the kid AND refuses to quit, it is abuse. Quite frankly, as someone who has asthma that can be triggered by the trace of smoke on someone's clothes, I really hate to be around smokers even when they aren't smoking. However, I am an adult and I can choose where I am. A kid cannot.

Jodi - posted on 05/10/2011

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Is this where I bring in the eye rolls too? Or do we just do big sighs?

"And if a kid has asthma or other respiratory problems I feel it's seriously abuse if the parent doesn't do their darndest to quit."

Jane - posted on 05/10/2011

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*Sigh* Jodi - if a parent is smoking in front of their kids and know it is harmful and don't try to stop, THAT is when it becomes abuse. No mention was made of parents who can't or won't quit but who do not force their kids to breath in the smoke.

OTOH, what about what the parents are doing to their own bodies and health? Smokers die sooner than nonsmokers, so a smoker needs to make sure to set up something to take care of their kids in case one or both parent dies. This happened to the family down the street recently. Dad was a smoker and died of lung cancer, leaving his wife to raise two elementary age kids with no income.

Jodi - posted on 05/10/2011

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"Jodi if a parent knows something they are doing is literally harming their kid and they don't even try to stop doing it then it is seriously abusive!"

I beg to differ. if they aren't smoking near their kids, then it isn't harming them, and therefore it could not in any way, shape or form be considered abusive to not give up.

Mechelle - posted on 05/10/2011

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I am a smoker with 2 small children. I think it is a disgusting habit and I have been trying very hard to quit. I completely agree that it should be made illegal to smoke inside the home when children are there. My fiance and I have always smoked outside of the home because we do not want our children breathing it in. It is very harmful to them.
As far as smoking in the car, I have to say I am guilty of this one. However, the only reason I smoke in the car is because most of the smoke gets sucked out of the windows, and away from my kids. I remember being younger and my parents would smoke in the car with the windows down, I couldn't smell it!!

Anyways, I agree that smoking inside with children is wrong...they don't have the choice to avoid it if they are around it all the time.

[deleted account]

I found out about it from two of my healthy babies public health nurses, and a cas worker that I know. I remember something on the radio about it but this was roughly 3 years ago so maybe my information is outdated...perhaps it's just for my city and not all of Ontario hmm anyone know where you can look this stuff up???

Jenn - posted on 05/10/2011

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Kaleigh - I'm in Ontario as well and have never heard of a law making it illegal to smoke in your own home. I'm all for it - but I've never heard that. I know about the car thing - but houses? No.

[deleted account]

Sorry I didn't answer earlier Jodi, I'm in Ontario Canada and yeah law says it is illegal to smoke in your vehicle or in your own home if there are children under 16 present. I read someone else's post where they said it was 14 though so it may have a changed. Now that isn't to say the police are going around busting in front doors to see who is smoking in their homes lol but I do know that if CAS received a complaint and you were found to be smoking in your home with your under 16s present (not sure if you can smoke in the house if they aren't neccessarily present or if it's illegal to smoke in the residence at all if kids live there) but anyway they can fine you and at the very least open a case against you for child abuse if not attempt to remove them from the home. Sorry I don't have all the details but I do remember (I was pregnant when this law came into effect) that it became illegal to smoke with kids in your car or home that they will issue at least a fine over it and I believe they gave a short grace period for people to get informed and make changes.

Tammy - posted on 05/10/2011

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I really dont have ANYTHING to say about having smoking banned.. cause that would take forever and smokers would probably go CRAZY (lol)

Im not a smoker.

And to force your child to sit there in harmful chemicals IS abuse. Especially if they dont know any better.



People might think im stupid for saying this but...the way I see it is would you have your child sit in the nuclear radiation?

not the same thing DUH but they are both still harmful for people...

Merry - posted on 05/09/2011

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Jodi if a parent knows something they are doing is literally harming their kid and they don't even try to stop doing it then it is seriously abusive!
I understand if a parent thinks their smoking isn't hurting their kid, it likely is or will, but if they honestly don't think they are hurting their kid then I couldn't call it abuse, I'd call it ignorance.
But if a parent has proof that their smoking is harming their kid then it becomes abuse to continue despite the facts saying you are hurting your kid.

Mel - posted on 05/08/2011

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ok yeah I can see your point I presume you are talking to me, but I figured well I dont socialise or go out, so the last time I actually had a ciggy would have been about 2 yrs ago. I guess thats why I wrote more. More if Im out and partying, which may happen one day agian when Im not feeding and the kids are older Ill chain smoke all niht, if not then Im not interested. Mainly when I was younger I smoked more :)

[deleted account]

I don't smoke. I am only a social smoker.

Not to be a pain in the butt, but those 2 statements are completely contradictory. You DO smoke. It may only be on occasion or rare, but being a social smoker does make you a smoker.....

Mel - posted on 05/08/2011

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yes it should be. Selfish people. I dont smoke and my husband doesnt smoke, I am only a social smoker

Charlie - posted on 05/08/2011

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Abuse is such a broad word and I agree it can be used in a myriad of situations some of which may or may not be abusive by our own definition especially if you have experienced abuse yourself other forms can seem like the lesser evil for sure .

I do think smoking continuously in the presence of a child could be classified as a type of drug abuse , it is physically harming the child and exposing them to harmfull substances against their will ....would smoking a crack pipe or a bong near a baby be abuse ? I would think so .....In my opinion it is a form of drug abuse and a drug that kills more people than any other drug .

I have taken up smoking again through stressful situations in my life but make sure I smoke outside , I am also very concious of not hugging my kids in my smoking jumper and wash my hands as soon as I come in .

Adults have every right to choose to smoke but a child doesnt and nor does the adult have the right to impose it on them , we hacve tough laws in Australia concerning smoking in public areas and in cars and I am all for it .

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2011

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"And if a kid has asthma or other respiratory problems I feel it's seriously abuse if the parent doesn't do their darndest to quit."

Why is it abuse to not do your darnedest to quit? You should just not smoke around the children. But abuse not to try and quit? I think that is going a bit far.

Merry - posted on 05/08/2011

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Wisconsin just passed a law saying no public indoors place including restaurants and bars. So I'm glad that I don't have to worry about going places here because if I can smell smoke I'm not going to let Eric breath there. I feel like cigarette smoke is poison and I'm not under any situation letting my kids breath any amount of it, be it second or third hand smoke.
I can't necessarily judge moms who do try to cut back, and try to smoke away from their kids because I don't understand the addiction and I can't judge how hard it must be. But when a parent has no care for trying to cut back or quit or even smoke away from their kid then I do feel like this is a form of abuse because they know it's harmful to their kid and yet continue to do it.
And if a kid has asthma or other respiratory problems I feel it's seriously abuse if the parent doesn't do their darndest to quit.

Casey - posted on 05/08/2011

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I absolutely think smoking around kids is abuse and I think it's disgusting too, I mean would you give your child a lite cigarette and let them smoke it in front of you cause passive smoking is exactly the same thing and is just as harmful.
I can't stand seeing parents smoke around their kids it's just wrong.

Rosie - posted on 05/07/2011

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i'm sorry dana, i just don't know how to say what i feel without sounding like an ass sometimes. it's an emotional topic for me, i should probably stay away from those, lol. ♥ you too!!

[deleted account]

nah, you're right, Kati -- I wouldn't call it abuse either. Sorry about my earlier comment. I didn't mean to sound insensitive. I suffered abuse at the hands of my dad until I was in my graduating year.

I just think when we get into a pissing match about who suffered more etc. it just creates hurt feelings everywhere and no one wins. To play devil's advocate.......by suggesting that you suffered REAL abuse aren't you sort of minimizing other people's feelings? I just don't like pissing matches and the way you worded your comment earlier suggested that's what you were doing.

Sorry, I'm guessing this is a sensitive subject for you so perhaps I'll just shut my mouth now!

I love you! ♥

Rosie - posted on 05/07/2011

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i don't have any disagreement that smoking around a child is WRONG. abuse? no. you're right this isn't a pissing match about whose abuse is worse. but to even put it in the same catagory when you havn't experienced what i have just rubs me the wrong way.it lessens what i've been through.

i've experienced both. my step dad and my grandmother smoked around me all of my life. did it bug me? HELL YEAH!!! did i feel the same as when i was getting beat? fuck no.

[deleted account]

All of the cities/towns in my area have no public smoking ordinances which makes it so nice to go out to eat in a restautant. However, smokers are welcome to smoke in an outdoor seating/bar area. When this no-smoking in restaurants ban went into effect, a lot of owners squaked, but then realized that they can really be creative with outdoor smoking areas. It's nice for us as non-smokers. All of my smoking friends that are parents only smoke outdoors. On occassion, 1 will smoke in her car but only if all of her windows are down.

Jay - posted on 05/07/2011

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as I am reading this I keep thinking about a friend of mine when we were both pregnant, she was 6 months ahead of me, I pulled up in my car behind hers and I saw her smoking a cig with her hand on her belly and her 3.5 year old son strapped into a carseat in the back, her window was open a tiny bit (it was cold)... I remember being disgusted and it was the 1st time (and last time) that I have ever seen this... It made me feel sad for her unborn son and her little boy.. :( xx

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/07/2011

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Kati, wow. I am sure that is just the tip of the iceberg. I am so sorry to hear about that. I don't even know how to respond to that.

[deleted account]

"wait till you get the shit beat out of you for pooping your pants, cause your dad won't let you in the house while he's fucking his girlfriend (while married to your mother). you'd be begging for someone to blow smoke in your face, if they actually didn't hit you."

Kati, that's horrible and I'm sorry it happened to you, BUT it still doesn't change the fact smoking around someone who's not old enough to remove themselves from a situation is so wrong.

I don't think any of us want to get into a pissing match about whose abuse was worse?

Jane - posted on 05/06/2011

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I don;t know where you are in Texas, but our city passed ordinances against smoking in restaurants, bars, schools, city-owned buildings, grocery stores, etc. several years ago. I think it is wonderful because cigarette smoke is one of the triggers for my asthma. I also will not subject my kids to tobacco smoke if there is any way to avoid it. I don't smoke, those few in my immediate family who used to smoke do so no longer, but there are still a few relatives that smoke.

Unfortunately, one of them is my 18 yo niece, who has been smoking (with her non-smoking mother's blessing) since the age of 14. That is just nuts.

Kelly - posted on 05/06/2011

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I totally agree with you! My in-laws smoke in their home. My sister-in-law lives with them with her two kids. They always reek of cigarettes. They always seem to be sick. When my nephew comes to stay the night with my son, we bathe him and wash his hair and I soo want to wash all his clothes too. They (my in-laws) know my kids will not come over unless they promise not to smoke indoors while we're there, and we really only come over in the summer, so we can stay outdoors away from the smelly furniture, or for very brief visits around holidays. I wish my sister-in-law, who doesn't smoke, had the guts to speak up and protect her kids, but as she doesn't work and is basically dependant on them for everything for herself and her kids, she's afraid to. It really pisses me off that we all know how harmful cigarettes are (and really, to argue against this is just pathetic) and yet so many parents and grandparents and caregivers subject such small children that they profess to love to so many poisons!! It's appalling.

Rosie - posted on 05/06/2011

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wait till you get the shit beat out of you for pooping your pants, cause your dad won't let you in the house while he's fucking his girlfriend (while married to your mother). you'd be begging for someone to blow smoke in your face, if they actually didn't hit you.

Jenn - posted on 05/06/2011

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@Tyrae - It's not illegal to smoke indoors with kids. It is illegal to smoke in public places like stores, restuarants, schools, community centres, bars, etc. It is not illegal to do it in your house with kids. It should be though.

Jessica - posted on 05/06/2011

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I will say for starters here in Ontario, it IS illegal to smoke in a vehicle while there are children under the age of 16 accompanying you. And this law, I fully support. Smoking is one of the most disgusting habits, I have been there, done that, quit for my kids. And seeing as secondhand smoke is more dangerous than smoking the actual cigarette, I dont understand how people could be so careless to their own health, but also to others. I am glad public smoking has been banned; those of us who choose not to smoke, do so for a reason. We don't like it. So why should the non smokers have to put up with cancer causing agents, and potentially die because dude next to them couldn't wait to get outside for a smoke, or away from those who don't smoke. But like you said, people have freedom, and smoking simply cannot be banned in open public because it infringes on human rights. But to answer your question, yes I think any parent who is selfish enough to light up a cancer stick while their kid is around should be charged with abuse. Heck if you can be charged for spanking your kid which does no more than sting the cheeks and thats considered abuse, well I think pre-meditated murder, whether concious or not, and that's exactly what smoking around others is, in my opinion, cause you're slowly killing them, deserves a big fine, maybe even jail time? I know that takes it a little far, but think of the potential decline in child smokers, children getting diagnosed with asthma, health care costs, if the punishment was something as severe as jail. No one wants to see what the inside of those walls are like, so maybe they'd take their child's health into consideration before lighting that smoke in the car....

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/06/2011

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Lisa, I kinda think "abuse" is also in the eye of the beholder.

Tyrae - posted on 05/06/2011

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It's illegal in Canada for parent's to smoke indoors or inside cars with kids under the age a certain age, I think it's 18 or something. You will get fined BIG time if you get caught doing it. I personally thought that was law everywhere. Hmm...

Minnie - posted on 05/06/2011

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I don't like it when someone says "that's not abuse...THIS is what abuse is (yadda yadda)"



Abuse is defined by the person who feels abused. I certainly felt abused when forced to schmooz with smokers as a teenager- we often went to my stepmother's friends' parties and what not and when I would cough and cover my face and try to hide she would yell at me and tell me I was being rude. I knew that inhaling that was hurting me.



But maybe it can't work that way legally.

Christina - posted on 05/06/2011

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One of my biggest pet peeves is smoking. I hate it! I grew up with my parents smoking in the house and in the car with the windows rolled up. I remember the stuffy grossness. I remember when it was legal for them to smoke in a restaurant while we were eating. Yuck! I remember thinking how I'd never do that. I wasn't even 10. I now have 2 kids and my husband smokes. He does not do it in the car or in our house regardless if children are present or not, our car and house remains smoke free. Heck, he's not allowed to smoke near our window outside if I have it open LOL. He even washes his hands and his face each time when he comes back in. I still wish he'd quit cause the smell is so offensive to me. My youngest was born early and was in the NICU for almost a month before she came home. I didn't even allow people who smoked hold her unless they completely washed up and had a clean shirt on. I believe in freedom, but peoples dirty habits shouldn't be a burden on those of us that don't want it around us or our children and think that people who smoke in their house and car around thier children are gross! GROSS! oh and selfish! Go outside lazy--s!

Amanda - posted on 05/06/2011

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Sorry I came across wrong, I wast trying to compare the two. I was pointing out once smoking near a child is abuse, feeding your child garbage will also become abuse. Both are wrong, both are person choices. Hense why I said slippery slope. Though I dont see how smoking near a child is any different then a parent helping their child become extremely over weight, both are things that can be and should be controled by a parent.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 05/06/2011

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Good for you Kati for making a difference. Hell, your husband can go outside at work, he can go outside at home. He can deal with it.

Firebird - posted on 05/06/2011

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Haha Kati where I lived minus 30 was nothing! It dropped to minus 60 with the windchill and we'd still go outside. Our apt had a storage closet outside and we had a small room heater out there. Didn't do a lot but it kept the edge off lol

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