So if vaccines dont cause autism.....what does?

Merry - posted on 09/16/2011 ( 133 moms have responded )

9,274

169

248

Various well developed studies have basicly proven without a doubt that vaccines don't cause autism, well at least that mmr and mercury doesn't cause autism.

Most people believe that there's no link between shots and autism.



So what's your theory as to what causes autism?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Jennifer - posted on 03/01/2012

714

1

26

I work with a large group of autist kids, I know their parents, and I know back stories on a lot of them. My feelings are that autism is caused by genetic factures, compounded by enviromental toxins. This theory is held up by certain areas where autism rates are higher, which points to enviromental pollutants, but also, in some cases, genetic personality simalarities.



We've known for years that certain personality traits lead people to choose their jobs. It is so certain that many schools give personality quizzes when helping students pick careers. There are now certain careers that are actually known to increase your risk of having a child with autism. Some believe that it is due to the chemical exposer in those feilds, but many believe that it is more genetic. The studies are on-going. NOTHING is yet proven. I doubt it ever will be.



The theory on the vaccinations is NOT that vaccinations cause autism. At least not with most people. The theory is that vaccines compound already existing genetic factors and toxic polluntants. It is not the exposure to illness(killed virus) that bothers most parents, it is the chemicals used to sustain the virus, and overloading the immune system by the combination vaccines. There are many other illneses caused by over-acheiving immune systems. Allergies are the most common. Arthritis and lupus are a couple more that are famaliar. Some cancers are also thought to be caused or spread by over acting immune response. Again, these are theories that are still being studied, NOTHING is proven.



The main fear with vaccines is, and will always be, that they are treated as totally fool proof. No one is allowed to question their safety. Doctors have been driven out of business for allowing and encouraging parents to research. No one is allowed to sue vaccine manufactures, and records of vaccine injuries are not well kept. Many theories are thrown out before even being looked at. The increase in allergies and asthma also occured at the same time vaccination rates increased, but the theory that vaccines were a cause was thrown out before being studied.



I think we, society, are a little too closed minded to fully comprehend everything. We want all or nothing. We want to say 'vaccines CUASE autism'. It is not going to be that simple. Vaccines may contribute to autism. Smoking CONTRIBUTES to cancer, but does NOT cause cancer. If it did, my great grammy would not have lived to 104. A good diet can help keep you healthy- but it is not a garuntee- or my aunt would have lived to 104!



We need to wake up, learn that we are not fool proof, and take steps to help society. We weigh our risk every single day. My dangers of getting cancer are far outweighed by my risk of dying in a car wreck. But NO ONE grabs my keys away screaming about how I'm killing myself! My doctor will lecture loud and long about donuts, but then never says, becareful driving home!



I know some say you should never vaccinate, but really, you need to weigh your risk. Look at things with an open mind, understand what is a danger. Vaccines save lives. Plain and simple. Vaccines cause harm. Plain and simple. If you were in a car wreck, and your head was smashed open, none of your family members would stop the doctor and say 'oh, no, you could cause an infection by that operation!!' They would allow the doctor to do the things needed to save your life from the biggest risk. But no one signs up to get their tonsilled removed before they become infected...........Vaccines are the same. We are a developed nation, our risk is not usually polio, it is toxins. If enough stink is raised over vaccines, they will be forced to look at making them safer. In the long run- that will help everyone- including moms who don't have the choice to look at toxins as a risk!

[deleted account]

Numerous factors



Genetics - If you have one child with autism your odds of having a second child with the disorder increase by 3%.



Breeding - Women with scientific, mathematical brains are now more likely to work in such fields and meet potential partners with similar abilities. The traits that appear in most high functioning autism become more dominant.



Better/earlier diagnosis - Doctors are being trained to pick up on early on problems in formative years developments.



Chemical Triggers - Accepting that you have to have a genetic component a reaction to chemicals in the environment, food AND vaccines could be the trigger for regressive types of autism and worsen the symptoms of other types.



Misdiagnosis - Again same as chemical triggers, an allergic reaction or intolerance to chemicals in the environment, food and vaccines could cause someone to present with the characteristics but if they were all to be eliminated the person would subsequently be "cured".



Misdiagnosis - some children are diagnosed too early and are purely late developing social skills yet grow into perfectly functioning adults.

Kate CP - posted on 09/16/2011

8,942

36

754

I think the sudden rise in Autism rates is actually a misdiagnosis. I think most of the kids labeled as autistic who "got better" with kelation therapy actually had lead poisoning which looks A LOT like autism.

For the kids who are genuinely autistic I think there is a genetic link and I think there IS some sort of environmental factor but I don't think it's the vaccines. We are using more and more chemicals in our every day lives and I think that has some influence on the numbers of autistic children and adults.

But that's just me. ;)

Charlie - posted on 09/16/2011

11,203

111

401

America a correlation to age isnt a cause , many children have forgone the shots and still developed autism around the same age extensive studies have not only debunked that theory but proven otherwise and actually for some parents who are aware of the signs they notice it much earlier than this but some dont notice until it becomes more apparent again around the same age as shots ( even without) for some this can be heartbreaking they need to blame something ( hello vaccinations ) .

Autism is extremely comlplex but genetic disposition is most likely , Autistic children differ biologically infants appear to have far more brain cells than the average brain and more connections between cells.

Children with Autism also have a much faster growth in brain development ( researchers say too fast ) between one and three years.

There is a long way to go to find out why it happens most likely there are a number of reasons.

Bobbi - posted on 03/04/2012

61

20

6

no one knows really and definitely... but it is a combination of genetics and environmental factors... what is known is this-



"By studying rare "copy number variations," which are individual errant insertions or deletions of DNA segments (each of which occur in less than one percent of the population), researchers discovered a new cluster of genes that are affected in some autistic individuals as well as a number of mutations that were present in autistic children but not their parents."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...



and that it is NOT vaccines in anyway, as you've said...



also



"Recent studies, however, have highlighted an important difference in the types of families that have members with ASD. There are some families where only one member has a diagnosis of ASD, and no one in the extended family has a diagnosis. Such 'one-off' incidences of autism are referred to as 'simplex' autism. Recent research suggests that some of these might be due to 'de novo' changes in DNA sequence (eg a rare sequence variant or a copy number variation, see Box 2), ie a one-off change that happens during the formation of gametes. It is believed that these rare variants can account for nearly 10% of all people diagnosed with ASD (Sebat et al., 2007). On the other hand, there is a multitude of families, where more than one member of the extended family has a diagnosis, or several members have very high levels of autistic traits – even though they might have never received a formal clinical diagnosis. Such families are referred to as 'multiplex' families. It is believed that there are specific genetic variations, passed down through generations that might underlie the increased incidence of ASD in these families"

http://www.autism.org.uk/working-with/he...



I also Highly suggest this site...

"The current theory among autism genetics researchers supports the idea of "complex" inheritance. This means that multiple genetic factors are likely to be involved, and may predispose an individual to develop autism. This theory also includes a role for environmental factors. In addition to having the right combination of autism-related genes, exposure to certain environmental factors might be necessary for autism to develop in some individuals. For instance, if one version of a gene makes an individual susceptible to a particular chemical, exposure to that chemical could trigger autism to develop. By focusing on the study of genetic factors and determining their underlying mechanisms, researchers may be better able to pinpoint environmental factors that contribute to autism."

http://www.exploringautism.org/history/i...

This conversation has been closed to further comments

133 Comments

View replies by

[deleted account]

*****Mod Notice*****



Can everyone please chill out!



We're bordering on personal attacks here and I don't want to have to lock another thread because of it.



Cathy S.

Bobbi - posted on 03/05/2012

61

20

6

Kate,



honestly I'm not. and you're right, you wouldn't want to bee me that way ( kidding!!)



no, I came to the sight, based on an email and responded originally with my opinion, with links to back what I was saying... What I did do, that I probably shouldn't have, was to read past posts by others and I responded to that- generally

and i meant no offense at all which is why I was "general" I then posted this...



"Also i have to point out that reading all of these posts made me very sad... not only am I a Mom of a child on the Spectrum but I have worked one-to one with children on the spectrum for over 6 years now and regardless of the new research our community is STILL having this debate- (and we do not know definitely what the causes are!) ..

Our community is Still divided and meanwhile the research goes on quietly...

Can you imagine the "force" we all could be towards Awareness and funding research if we actually worked together???

just a thought..."



which I stand by and really is the main point I was making...

Kate CP - posted on 03/05/2012

8,942

36

754

o.O



If this is you NOT all hot and bothered then I would hate to see you hot and bothered. I call everyone "dude". And no, my wording wasn't meant to offend. But...I guess you took offense to it. So...sorry?

Bobbi - posted on 03/05/2012

61

20

6

Kate, CP,

again, this is what I was speaking about and I did reply to her as she asked me directly a minute after I posted and I was not angry nor got my "panties in a bunch"... if I were speaking "AT" someone in my original posts, I would have put their name.. I did say I was speaking "generally".... Why did you feel the need to say " Dude no need to get your panties in a bunch"? I am not a "dude", and your wording was meant to offend, right?

This is what i mean, can we not treat each other with a Little bit of respect regardless if we don't agree???



I was not insulting in any way and voiced an opinion, originally. simple.

Kate CP - posted on 03/05/2012

8,942

36

754

Dude, no need to get your panties in a bunch. She was confused about who the hell you were talking to because it seemed like you were speaking AT some one in particular.

Bobbi - posted on 03/05/2012

61

20

6

gee whiz, I was speaking generally- about the many posters who have been attacked. Apologies. obviously next time I will make that blatantly clear. ok?

Mother - posted on 03/05/2012

1,627

79

28

"But to attack another parent who is also trying to do what is best for their child is not right. " -- I was going by THIS comment. Of course you have a right to post. I was asking for clarification as to what and whom you were talking to. Nothing more.



Continue on...

Bobbi - posted on 03/05/2012

61

20

6

Mother Bacher...Forgive me, But I never said that I was insulted at all.

please re-read what I said..



" then it was worth the complete barrage of abuse that I am bound to get for voicing this...



Because it's so much better to tear each other apart then to look at the facts and think maybe you could possibly be wrong.... (sorry sarcasm, for those who may not have caught it)"



Seems to me you are looking for an argument when I was just responding the the question and all the posts since...

Forgive my confusion at your post/question to me... so because no one's posted in a while, I'm not aloud to post and voice my opinion too??

It wasn't even your Question, it was Laura's...



and I guess it wasn't you that posted a day ago?

Mother - posted on 03/05/2012

1,627

79

28

Who the are you talking to? No one has insulted you. Actually no one has even posted.

Bobbi - posted on 03/05/2012

61

20

6

goodness me, I have just read all the posts on this "debate" and the amount of mis-information is un-real! I suggest highly that many of you who are in the States go to http://www.autism-society.org/about-auti...



and read....please because I am completely appalled...

ultra-sounds cause autism? WHAT??? That in fact is completely and utterly false.



I could write all my credentials down and point out that I'm in fact studying for my Masters in working with children on the Autistic Spectrum.. (yes in the UK there is even a doctrine degree which I will be going for afterwards) and that I'm a Mom of a child on the spectrum and that I work daily as a one to one specifically with young children on the Spectrum, but I know most of you who believe in the mis-information won't believe me anyway... but if one Mom is helped by knowing the facts, the true and absolute facts regarding Autism, then it was worth the complete barrage of abuse that I am bound to get for voicing this...



Because it's so much better to tear each other apart then to look at the facts and think maybe you could possibly be wrong.... (sorry sarcasm, for those who may not have caught it)

Bobbi - posted on 03/05/2012

61

20

6

I have to post this again... how sad.... How sad this is for people to be attacking each other. Can we not have a reasonable debate without the attacks?? One based on Facts? It has been proven that vaccines DO NOT CAUSE Autism, Period. What environmental factors contribute, we just DO NOT KNOW, yet... But to attack another parent who is also trying to do what is best for their child is not right. We all have passion for our children and all want what is best for our children, which is why I think people attack..

But where is it getting us as a community? What good is it doing?

My opinion, there are various reasons and causes for autism and it increasingly apparent the "causes" are complex and I personally believe we will find out that not just ONE thing causes it... To those mothers who are sure it was the vaccine, maybe it was, maybe the complex nature of their child's genes with the vaccine "triggered" something, but again maybe it could have been something else and would have been if not the vaccine. The point is the predisposition... that is where the most research is needed and it gets bloody well "clouded" by this same debate about vaccines. That is what makes me FURIOUS!

Vaccines, alone, Did not cause my son's autism and they again, alone do not "cause " autism... the facts are there in black and white. Whether you choose to believe it or not is obviously your choice, but I'd much prefer to look into the complex genes and the mutation that is being noticed... again, I really do believe we will find that there are a variety of "causes" of Autism and this focus on Vaccines is sadly misguided... my opinion. Feel free to "blast" away as it seems some of you can not help yourselves...

Bobbi - posted on 03/04/2012

61

20

6

Also i have to point out that reading all of these posts made me very sad... not only am I a Mom of a child on the Spectrum but I have worked one-to one with children on the spectrum for over 6 years now and regardless of the new research our community is STILL having this debate- (and we do not know definitely what the causes are!) ..

Our community is Still divided and meanwhile the research goes on quietly...

Can you imagine the "force" we all could be towards Awareness and funding research if we actually worked together???

just a thought...

Kate CP - posted on 03/01/2012

8,942

36

754

Well, I was trying to be nice. But I guess if you see that as a personal affront...I'm sorry?

Kate CP - posted on 03/01/2012

8,942

36

754

And, as an aside, I am truly sorry about what happened to your daughter. We do things in the best faith of doctors and sometimes they lead us down a very wrong path.



I understand your position on this, Kelly...I do. If my daughter had been injured by a vaccine I think I would probably feel the same way toward vaccines for US. I would encourage others to vaccinate, maybe on a delayed schedule, if they don't have a family history of reactions.



I understand the guilt you feel but at the same time...you were doing what you thought was best for your daughter. You were trying to protect her. I don't think parents who don't vaccinate with just cause (such as yourself) are crazy or irresponsible. I think they are doing the best they can for their kids.



I *do* think parents who don't vaccinate because they've bought the hype by Jenny McCarthy and that Brit doctor are a bit paranoid. I don't like Dr. Tenpenny because she pushes her own brand of medicine and Dr. Mercola seems to be the same way. Dr. Sears is so far the best non-biased source I can agree with. He kind of has the same stance as me: If you can get vaccinated you should, but if you have a history of reactions in your family or allergies then you should at least delay them if not exclude them all together.

Kate CP - posted on 03/01/2012

8,942

36

754

As I've said before, kids who have had a reaction or have a family history of reactions (or if they appear to be allergic to everything under the sun) SHOULD NOT be vaccinated. Or if they ARE vaccinated should be done on a delayed schedule.



Doctors "bully" and other parents push people to get the vaccines because they work. Some people just SHOULD NOT get vaccinated and that's okay. That's why the rest of us SHOULD.



Kelly, if your family has a history of vaccine reactions you should see the benefit of others getting vaccinated so your family can stay safe. By the rest of us being immune to a pathogen the likelihood of passing it on to your family is small because the virus won't survive without a host.



Small pox has been eradicated from the face of the earth except in laboratories because of vaccines. The last known case of naturally caught small pox was in the 70s. Every other case of small pox has been linked to contamination from a lab and the virus has failed to spread. If the small pox issue doesn't prove that vaccines work I don't know what will. Because if small pox were to get out in the world again it would devastate the world. There is no cure for small pox and it's still got a 70-80% mortality rate. It's HIGHLY contagious and the number of people who have been vaccinated for it has dropped since the 70s because it no longer exists in "the wild".



Just imagine if we could accomplish that with pertussis or polio. We almost HAVE eliminated polio from the face of the earth...we're SO CLOSE! And that thrills me! To know that we have the ability to erase a debilitating and potentially deadly disease from the planet is a wonderful prospect to me. Does that mean that EVERY kid should be vaccinated regardless of the outcome? No. Because some kids just CAN'T be vaccinated. And that's okay...because those of us who CAN be vaccinated should step up to the plate and take a jab for humanity.

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

And just like your last post people, everywhere find a way to defend their precious vaccines. I'm finished. I'm going to leave this thread now. not because I'm ignoring you but because I'm just upset and need to talk about something else.



Have a good day.

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

I've never told anyone to not vaccinate. I have only ever defended my right to choose. The media??? LOL Have you ever seen what they do to the CRAZY parents of vaccine damaged children?? They make a circus out of them. Pharmaceuticals run the world. The medical establishment will NEVER speak against them. Thanks, but like most vaccine injured families we will just fade into the background. My daughter has been through enough. My family has been through enough. To even be allowed for your medical papers to state vaccine injured....you have to go to court. And every doctor and every parent will then again, speak out AGAINST you. You're still crazy...no matter what. I will never stop rallying against vaccinations...ever. I never should have doubted myself and caved to that ONE shot. The guilt I carry kills me.

Krista - posted on 03/01/2012

12,562

16

842

And...not to pile on, but if she stepped on a rusty nail, and HADN'T been vaccinated, the odds are extremely good that your daughter would have gotten tetanus. And tetanus, even if properly treated with antibiotics, has a 1 in 10 chance of being fatal.



The odds of your daughter having had a reaction like she did, were a lot longer than that.



Please don't blame yourself for having gotten her the shot. You don't know how things would have turned out if she hadn't -- it could have turned out a LOT worse.

Krista - posted on 03/01/2012

12,562

16

842

Krista, I appreciate what you're saying. But I am not ok with serving up my child as the sacrificial lamb for the sake of someone else's child. Would you?? I don't think you'd be ok with it.



I'm incredibly sorry that this happened to your child. And I can understand now why you are so against vaccinations.



But...geez, Kelly. Some kids also have horrible reactions to antibiotics. So should we just get rid of antibiotics altogether?



I'm not saying that your child should be the sacrificial lamb. It's horrible that this happened to her. I guess I'm saying that there are obviously some very GOOD things about vaccines -- they've saved a metric shit-ton of lives.



So wouldn't it be more productive, instead of trying to persuade all parents to forgo vaccinating their kids, to maybe share your story with the media and use that attention to call for more stringent safety testing, and call for a way to somehow pre-test kids (a scratch test, maybe?) to see if they are allergic to vaccinations, prior to the vaccine being injected? Wouldn't that accomplish more -- to push for a way to make vaccines SAFER, not make them non-existent?





The comparison between this and the peanut allergy stuff isn't really valid. Forgoing peanut products will in no way harm any child. But forgoing vaccinations? That's a different kettle of fish. And if everybody forgoes vaccines, a lot of kids WILL be harmed, absolutely.

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

On a side note: I am thankful tho. I am thankful that I read and researched and read some more. I'm glad I DOUBT everything, and I do. I'm happy my daughter never had a vaccine until age 7 because her symptoms are so mild now. She still walks on the tips of her toes, which means we don't have the heavy metals out.



She still overreacts to EVERYTHING. She still has sensory issues and doesn't tolerate loud noises. she is very hyper and you have explain to her that she has to slow down when talking because no one understands her. She still gets stomach upset but nothing like before. I'm grateful because she is intelligent. She scores the same as all her peers but doesn't deal well in crowds. For the most part, you'd never know she reacted but it has taken us 5 years to get here.

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

Krista, I appreciate what you're saying. But I am not ok with serving up my child as the sacrificial lamb for the sake of someone else's child. Would you?? I don't think you'd be ok with it.



In another thread everyone defended the right to put allergy bans on foods in school for the sake of that ONE child but they just leave the vaccine reactive kids hung out to dry. And defend their vaccines by calling us crazy or conspiracy theorists. No one knows.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/01/2012

18,914

9

3002

***Mod Alert***



Just a reminder to please refrain from personal attacks, and to keep it nice ladies! Thanks



~Mod Little Miss~

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

Yes. I was a non-vaxer. I never intended to give any shots EVER. There was so many health issues on my spouses side that I was terrified. But my spouse and I split and we have shared custody. When my daughter was 7 she stepped on a rusty nail. I refused to let her have the shots but between my doctor and her father [who has shared custody] and my parents. I caved. I convinced myself she would be fine. She got the shot and she was fine. I still didn't sleep that night.

She did have a wee fever but she seemed fine.



She wasn't fine. She kept telling me her legs felt funny. I kept telling her it was growing pains. Growing pains. She got a small cold. she didn't feel well. But nothing huge. Her Father was going back out west and he took her out for lunch. I got a frantic phone call from saying something was wrong with my daughter. [our daughter]



He brought her home and she was covered in blood. She had mutilated herself with her nails. She described that it felt like hot water was being poured over her and she was trying to "get it out". The next 2 years were hell. Life sometimes is still hell. For the most part she is great. We did heavy metal treatment....which she tested very high for. She had the gastro issues. I ran her to the hospital more times then I care to count.



You have no idea what its like to stand there and watch your child laying on the ER floor telling everyone to just leave her alone. So, instead of being the crazy conspiracy theoriest Mother....now people look and point because you have a crazy daughter. But no one ever helps. Doctors do everything to convince you that you are wrong but can't give you a reason as to what is happening. Don't dare blame their beloved vaccines.



The difference between my situation and everyone elses is....my daughter was verbal. She could describe what she was feeling....most babies can't. and I gotta tell you, I know why they cry.

Krista - posted on 03/01/2012

12,562

16

842

I feel horrible for the families of kids who have bad reactions. Seriously, I do. They were trying to do the best thing for their kid.



But the answer is NOT to try to scare every other parent in the world out of vaccinating their child! Jesus wept, Kelly, how many kids do you think will be hurt if NOBODY vaccinates? That'll hurt a HELL of a lot more kids.



I can understand pushing for better safety standards. I can understand spacing vaccines out, or delaying them. I can understand yelling about how they need to make them even safer.



But I cannot support the idea of trying to scare every parent out there out of vaccinating their kids. It won't help ANYTHING. It'll only make things much, much worse.

Jodi - posted on 03/01/2012

26,125

36

3891

Kelly, have your children had reactions to vaccines, then? I'm guessing by your response that perhaps they have. Because you've taken everything rather personally.

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

Krista: Are you mad??



Ya wanna know what makes me really FUCKING MAD???



IS when people TRY to do the best for their kids and do delay those fucking toxic vaccines. They listen to everyone telling them they are IRRESPONSIBLE. They listen to the doctor BULLY them every FUCKING visit. They listen to how horrible a parent they are. They do everything right. They get the shots. And then........THEIR KID FUCKING REACTS!!!!!!!!!!



Then where is everyone?? Where are all the doctors?? Where are all the other parents who bullied you into submission. Don't talk to me about FAIR. Don't talk to me about being scared. What happens to the kids who do react?? NOTHING. You and your reactive child are LEFT. Doctors and parents alike stand by and shrug their God Damned shoulders while the parents stand there helpless and alone. Don't you DARE stand there and judge anyone until you've been on the other side of that coin. Your child is no more important then my child. And if I so choose to NOT vaccinate that is my choice. NOT yours. Until you've stood there holding a vaccine injured child. Don't look at me and say.....the benefits still outweigh the risks. Because YOU don't have a fucking clue.

Jodi - posted on 03/01/2012

26,125

36

3891

It's all black or white with you, isn't it Kelly? I wasn't asking you to agree vaccines DON'T cause autism. Jesus.



I was asking for the scientific basis for your opinion. That's different. You still have not been able to provide that. copying and pasting a bunch of shit about contents of the vaccines is NOT a scientific basis for a stance that vaccines cause autism. it simply isn't.



There have been many, many, many studies done on this issue. An NONE of them have been able to conclude that vaccines cause autism (except one that was bullshit).



I am not asking you to give up, I am asking for the scientific basis on which you conclude that vaccines cause autism. Your opinion is your opinion, but that doesn't make it right, and it certainly isn't backed by science, so don't pretend that it is.

Krista - posted on 03/01/2012

12,562

16

842

Vaccines do not cause encephalitis:

Although there used to be concern that diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus and measles-mumps-rubella vaccines could cause encephalitis, recent research indicates that these childhood vaccines are very safe and do not increase encephalitis risk.

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/wh...



Not only that, but your wording is REALLY misleading. To say that vaccines increase the risk of certain things is one thing. But to say "vaccines cause this and vaccines cause that", you are heavily implying that these are EXTREMELY frequent occurrences. And that is not the case. Yes ,the MMRV vaccine increases the risk of febrile seizures due to a spike in fever. That is why doctors recommend that if you are concerned, to simply get the MMR vaccine and the varicella vaccine separately.



Not only that, but you're going on about encephalitis? Guess what DOES cause encephalitis? ALL OF THOSE FUCKING VIRUSES THAT YOU REFUSE TO VACCINATE AGAINST.



A number of viruses for which there is now a vaccine may also cause encephalitis. These include:



Measles



Mumps



Polio



Rabies



Rubella



Varicella (chickenpox)



Other viruses that cause encephalitis include:



Adenovirus



Coxsackievirus



Cytomegalovirus



Eastern Equine Encephalitis Virus



Echovirus



West Nile virus




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth...

Krista - posted on 03/01/2012

12,562

16

842

And you know, if you're worried about aluminum, I can understand delaying vaccines. I can understand spacing them out a bit. I really can. I have NO problem if parents feel better spreading out the schedule a bit. Seriously.



But don't fucking SKIP them altogether. That's just irresponsible.



Right now, in the province next to me, there is a whooping cough outbreak. I have friends in that region -- friends with infants who are fewer than 2 months old, and who cannot yet be vaccinated. They're terrified, and are basically avoiding leaving the house. That shit makes me REALLY mad, because researchers have basically concluded that the resurgence of whooping cough is directly linked to people forgetting to get their booster shots, which has basically shot our herd immunity all to shit.



So now we have lazy asses who have forgotten to get their boosters, and conspiracy theorists who think that vaccines are the devil, and as a result of all of this fuckery, forty-fucking-seven kids in my home province are sick from whooping cough. Some of them are babies. Some may DIE from this.



Seriously, I am so angry right now that I am shaking.

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

Okay. I give up.

Vaccines do not cause autism.



Autism is a behavioral diagnosis. In order to receive the diagnosis of “Autism” a child must exhibit a certain number of behaviors over a certain time frame. If he or she does not do so, the diagnosis of “autism” is not warranted.



There is no blood test for “autism.”



“Autism” can’t be confirmed or “ruled-out” by laboratory analysis. It’s strictly a behavioral diagnosis.



Therefore, anything that causes physiological damage cannot directly “cause” autism.



Ergo… vaccines cannot “cause” “autism.”



Vaccines cause other stuff.



Vaccines cause encephalitis.

Vaccines cause seizures.

Vaccines cause immune system deficiencies.

Vaccines cause gastrointestinal problems.



Encephalitis causes mood swings.

Encephalitis causes extreme pain.

Encephalitis causes inattention and impulsivity.

Encephalitis causes aggression.

Encephalitis causes balance problems and difficulty relating to one’s environment.



Seizures cause mood swings.

Seizures cause inattention and impulsivity.

Seizures cause alterations in conciousness.



Immune system deficiencies cause children to have more frequent bacterial infections, such as ear infections, upper respiratory infections (URIs), sinusutis, and strep infections.



Immune system deficiencies cause children to have more frequent viral infections, such as stomatitis, “fevers of unknown origin,” “viral rashes,” hives, conjunctivitis, and gastrointestinal viruses that cause vomiting and diarrhea.



Immune system deficiencies cause children to be more vulnerable to “everything that’s going around” and to have a tougher time getting over things than their peers.



Gastrointestinal damage from vaccines causes diarrhea.

Gastrointestinal damage from vaccines causes nausea, reflux, vomiting, and the recently discovered “disease” now known as GERD (Gastro-Esophageal Reflux Disease).



Gatrointestinal damage from vaccines causes increased vulnerability to viruses and bacteria, which leads to increased administration of antibiotics, which leads to overgrowth of pathogenic yeast.



Pathogenic yeast overgrowth leads to intestinal hyperpermeability (“leaky gut syndrome”).



Pathogenic yeast overgrowth leads to constipation.

Pathogenic yeast overgrowth leads to food allergies.

Pathogenic yeast overgrowth leads to skin eruptions, “drunken, silly behavior,” inattention and impulsivity, and cravings for bread, sugar, ice cream, milk, and carbohydrates.



Technically, vaccines do not cause autism because techincally there is no such thing as autism.



Vaccines cause the underlying physical conditions that result in the pain, neurological damage, immune system disorders, gastrointestinal damage, and yeast overgrowth – all of which combine to produce the behavioral symptoms that result in the “autism” diagnosis.

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

"There is more formaldehyde in a can of soda than in any given dose of vaccine." -- you mean diet soda.



"Aspartame: The Breakdown



It’s not necessarily what’s in aspartame that makes it carcinogenic, it’s how the body breaks the chemicals down and the resulting byproducts that are dangerous. Aspartame produces three main byproducts when it is broken down by the body: aspartic acid, phenylalanine and methanol. The first two, aspartic acid and phenylalanine, are usually harmless and are usually broken down further into compounds that your body can easily process. Methanol, however, produces formic acid and formaldehyde, the latter of which is a known carcinogen. So, you won’t see formaldehyde in the list of ingredients on your favorite diet beverage, but if you do see aspartame, be aware that your body will naturally produce formaldehyde as a result of consuming this artificial sweetener."

Jodi - posted on 03/01/2012

26,125

36

3891

Keli



I'm not trying to draw you into a he said/she said, I am genuinely actually asking for the scientific basis for your opinion. Those facts you posted have no links with autism.

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

"So what's your theory as to what causes autism?"



Jody, I believe THIS was the question. I am not getting drawn into a he said/she said with anyone. I will post my facts and if people are interested GREAT. If people aren't GREAT. Then there will be no cause for ignoramus's to post threads specifically about how CRAZY non-vaxers are. there will be no one saying I'm misinterpreting anything or twisting their words. AND if someone chooses not to read the literature posted....not my problem. I think if you read what I'm posted thus far....it is quite evident why I believe what I do.

Krista - posted on 03/01/2012

12,562

16

842

I note the footnote on your link, Kelly. Those vaccines you mentioned, after Thimerosal, there is a little asterisk. And here's what it says:



*Where “thimerosal” is marked with an asterisk (*) it indicates that the product should be considered equivalent to thimerosal-free products. This vaccine may contain trace amounts (

Jodi - posted on 03/01/2012

26,125

36

3891

And what scientific basis do you have for believing it causes autism, other than your own opinion?

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

What has me most curious is that the MSDS for Thimerosal explicitly states it isn't to be combined with aluminum. So what happens when a child receives a bunch of aluminum-containing vaccines along with mercury-containing ones?



Some vaccines contain both aluminum AND thimerosal despite the fact that the MSDS for Thimerosal explicitly states it isn't supposed to be combined with aluminum. Two examples are:

The Tripedia brand of DTaP

The Engerix-B brand of Hep B

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkboo...



I think they play a big part of it...yup.

Jodi - posted on 03/01/2012

26,125

36

3891

Okay, I will repeat.



So, Kelly, you still believe autism is caused by vaccines then?

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

The French investigators reported that “daily aluminum intake of at least 0.1 milligram was associated with greater cognitive decline.” (Author’s note – 0.1 milligrams is equal to 100 micrograms [mcg]) The current listing of the amount of aluminum in vaccines are as follows: DTaP – from 170 mcg to 625 mcg, depending on manufacturer, Hepatitis A – 250 mcg, Hepatitis B – 250 mcg, HiB – 225 mcg, HPV – 225 mcg, Pediarix – 850 mcg, Pentacel – 330 mcg, and Pneumococcus – 125 mcg.



“In other words, a newborn who gets a Hepatitis B injection on day one of life would receive 250 mcg of aluminum. This would be repeated at one month with the next Hep B shot. When, at two months, a baby gets its first big round of shots, the total dose of aluminum could vary from 295 mcg (if a non-aluminum HIB and the lowest-aluminum brand of DTaP are used) to a whopping 1225 mcg (if the Hep B vaccine is given along with the brands with the highest aluminum contents). These doses are repeated at four and six months. With most subsequent rounds of shots, a child would continue to get some aluminum throughout the first two years. But the FDA recommends that premature babies, and anyone with impaired kidney function, receive no more than 10 to 25 mcg of injected aluminum at any one time.”

Mother - posted on 03/01/2012

1,627

79

28

Ingestion is NOT the same as INJECTION!!



Important update:from Medscape Medical news

"Report of Motor Neuron Disease after HPV

vaccine.Dated October 28,2009 Investigators

are reporting a case of motor neuron disease

after immunization (death two moths after the 3rd dose of Gardasil).Postmortem evaluation: "Researchers report extensive

DEMYELINATION and severe loss of MOTOR NEURONS" Aluminum adjuvant is the new "mercury free vaccine".They really meant "ONE LESS".

www.medscape.com/viewarticle/711461



To further address your question about the high amounts of ingested aluminum, consider this quote from Dr. Sears:



"We know aluminum is a neurotoxin. We also know that humans can ingest huge amounts without harm, since 99% of it passes out through the stools. I’m sure Dr. Offit knows that, so I’m curious as to why he’d use the “babies ingest tons of aluminum anyway” argument."

http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook...





So only 1 percent of ingested aluminum is absorbed.



Now let's look at the amount of aluminum babies consume:



"Breast milk contains 40mcg/L aluminum, milk-based formulas contain ~225mcg/L, and soy-based formulas contain ~500mcg/L."



1% of each of those amounts equals .4 mcg, 2.25 mcg, and 5 mcg. So their kidneys only have to filter about .4 to 5mcg of aluminum from daily milk/formula consumption.



As I stated in a previous post, 100% of injected aluminum has to be filtered by the kidneys. So, the amount of aluminum in vaccines is not just 'a drop in the bucket' compared to consumed aluminum.



.4 mcg - 5 mcg of aluminum from food sources pales in comparison to the 295 - 1225 mcg a child could receive in one day from vaccines. The study Kent referrenced found that at least 100 mcg of daily aluminum consumption was associated with greater cognitive decline. So 1% of that is 1 mcg, which would imply that breast milk at .4 mcg is perfectly safe, and perhaps soy infant formula isn't such a great idea.



And finally, as stated earlier in the quote from, "Aluminum and Health" By Hillel J. Gitelman, the small amounts absorbed by the intestines are usually excreted by the kidneys (and accumulation only occurs in cases of high chronic intake). However, Paul Offit said that after 2 weeks, 85% of the aluminum from vaccines has been excreted (and that's for the average healthy person). That would mean that we still have 15% of 295 mcg - 1225 mcg unaccounted for (equalling 44.25 mcg - 183.75 mcg from just one office visit). Has anyone done any studies to see what happens to the remaining 15% of the injected aluminum? Is it ever excreted, or does it accumulate in brain and skeletal tissue?

[deleted account]

Bringing it back to Autism here/

My own personal theory is:I believe its something a child is born with(it stems from how a fetus develops within the womb until birth) and then continues to develop as the child grows to a point it becomes obvious to us as the parent/GP etc.Through behaviour or developmental growth(delays etc)



Injections play no part.Personally speaking.

[deleted account]

i stopped getting the flu vaccine after i had a horrible reaction to a dose one year. since then i haven't gotten the flu :P i don't plan on vaccinating my daughter against the flu, either, but she will be getting all the vaccines i have gotten otherwise, and those that are necessary for her to attend school.



but i thought the topic was autism? when did we start talking about vaccines? isn't that another thread?

Kate CP - posted on 02/29/2012

8,942

36

754

There is more mercury in a can of tuna than in a dose of any given vaccine.



There is more formaldehyde in a can of soda than in any given dose of vaccine.



There is more arsenic in an apple than in any given dose of vaccine.



There is more Polysorbate 20 / 80 in your creamer and whipped cream than in any given dose of vaccine.



There is more aluminum in breast milk (YES breast milk) than in any given dose of vaccine.



There is more sulfate and phosphate compounds in your shampoo, soap, laundry detergent, and toothpaste than in any given vaccine.



So. The vaccines aren't what's causing problems. It's the daily poisoning we're doing of our kids in the simple everyday products we use around the house. The vaccines save THOUSANDS of lives every year.



Your shampoo just makes your hair shiny. I'm more willing to give up the crap in my household items than to give up the life saving vaccines. But...maybe that's just me.

Mother - posted on 02/29/2012

1,627

79

28

The links were for Sherri who stated that vaccines haven't had mercury since 2000.

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms