spanking in schools

Sherri - posted on 07/25/2011

Oh my kids know if they get in trouble in school they better be terrified of the consequences when they get home and I don't even lay one single finger on them. My son was sobbing hysterically one day when the school said they were going to call me, he knew he was in huge trouble and no matter what happened at school the consequences at home would be far worse and as I said I never laid one finger on them.

Rosie - posted on 07/25/2011

in 7th grade a kid who was considered a smart alec, didn't apply himself, and what not made a smart ass remark to a teacher. she hauled off and spanked him. in my state spanking is illegal. she did not get fired. i just remember sitting there, all of us wondering what the fuck he did so wrong to get hit. it startled the shit out of us. she surprisingly did not get fired, she should have. but i can tell you that none of us kids respected that bitch anymore. she did not come back the next year.

Amie - posted on 07/25/2011

Dodie,

"Also, there was the threat that, if you got in trouble at school, it would be far less than you were going to be in at home!."

Now there's a novel idea that has died out and needs to stay died out. If you get swatted at school be prepared to get beat at home. =/ There is really no other recourse to follow but to hit your child harder and longer if they are getting swatted at school.

"Since the removal of corporal punishment in schools, I have witnessed teachers being hit by as young as a grade 3 student--I worked in an elementary & high school working with children as a councillor & sitting in for other employees in study halls & in-school suspension classes, as well as with special needs children.--striking a teacher on more than one occasion. There have been serious incidents in the Junior High & High School classes where teachers have been punched, hit with books, threatened with guns & knives, & kicked after being knocked to the ground. These are incidents which have been happening since corporal punishment has been removed from the schools, the whole point of said action being not to teach our children violence."

Just because it's been removed from schools does not mean it's been removed from homes. The majority of parents still use spanking as a tool to parent. You can't blame teachers/principals/schools for the failings of the parents. It also begs the questions: If spanking is being used at home because it's not illegal - and those same children are going to school and doing these things - is spanking really effective? My conclusion would be obviously not - the kids are still acting out and hitting, just not their parents. Their parents will hit them back.

"A third is the mass migration away from Religious teaching--not necessarily church-going, but at least teaching children the 10 commandments & for what they have stood in the last 3000 years, give or take. "

Ha! If I wanted my children to have anything to do with religious teachings, I would send them to a Christian school. I don't, so they go to public.

"No, I am not advocating beating a child with a stick or any other foreign object."
- And then a few sentences later -
"I had a little decorative set of wooden spoons sitting atop my refridgerator. Each of them wouldn't weigh but a few grams. However, if I asked one of my Children: "Do you want to speak with Mr. Good Manners?""

You may not be advocating for it (even though to my eyes you are) but you obviously agree with it. =/

"Bring back "quality controlled" corporal punishment at home & in schools"

Who gets to say how "quality controlled" is defined? You? I don't want you defining that for my kids. Never mind the fact that *I* would never send my kids to a school that allowed this to happen.

"For the children who have abusive parents will be abusive whether there is corporal punishment in schools or not."

Wow.. really? So if they're getting beat at home, just ignore that very damaging fact and allow them to beat at school. NO big deal that they have no safe place to go to. The fact that they are acting out at school might actually have to do with them getting beat at home but hey - let's beat them some more. =/

"That's my very-long-winded-as-usual-never-to-be-humble-well-backed-up-well-researched Opinion!!"

I would like to see that research.

Amie - posted on 07/25/2011

Dodie,

"Also, there was the threat that, if you got in trouble at school, it would be far less than you were going to be in at home!."

Now there's a novel idea that has died out and needs to stay died out. If you get swatted at school be prepared to get beat at home. =/ There is really no other recourse to follow but to hit your child harder and longer if they are getting swatted at school.

"Since the removal of corporal punishment in schools, I have witnessed teachers being hit by as young as a grade 3 student--I worked in an elementary & high school working with children as a councillor & sitting in for other employees in study halls & in-school suspension classes, as well as with special needs children.--striking a teacher on more than one occasion. There have been serious incidents in the Junior High & High School classes where teachers have been punched, hit with books, threatened with guns & knives, & kicked after being knocked to the ground. These are incidents which have been happening since corporal punishment has been removed from the schools, the whole point of said action being not to teach our children violence."

Just because it's been removed from schools does not mean it's been removed from homes. The majority of parents still use spanking as a tool to parent. You can't blame teachers/principals/schools for the failings of the parents. It also begs the questions: If spanking is being used at home because it's not illegal - and those same children are going to school and doing these things - is spanking really effective? My conclusion would be obviously not - the kids are still acting out and hitting, just not their parents. Their parents will hit them back.

"A third is the mass migration away from Religious teaching--not necessarily church-going, but at least teaching children the 10 commandments & for what they have stood in the last 3000 years, give or take. "

Ha! If I wanted my children to have anything to do with religious teachings, I would send them to a Christian school. I don't, so they go to public.

"No, I am not advocating beating a child with a stick or any other foreign object."
- And then a few sentences later -
"I had a little decorative set of wooden spoons sitting atop my refridgerator. Each of them wouldn't weigh but a few grams. However, if I asked one of my Children: "Do you want to speak with Mr. Good Manners?""

You may not be advocating for it (even though to my eyes you are) but you obviously agree with it. =/

"Bring back "quality controlled" corporal punishment at home & in schools"

Who gets to say how "quality controlled" is defined? You? I don't want you defining that for my kids. Never mind the fact that *I* would never send my kids to a school that allowed this to happen.

"For the children who have abusive parents will be abusive whether there is corporal punishment in schools or not."

Wow.. really? So if they're getting beat at home, just ignore that very damaging fact and allow them to beat at school. NO big deal that they have no safe place to go to. The fact that they are acting out at school might actually have to do with them getting beat at home but hey - let's beat them some more. =/

"That's my very-long-winded-as-usual-never-to-be-humble-well-backed-up-well-researched Opinion!!"

I would like to see that research.

Rosie - posted on 07/25/2011

hate to break it to ya dodie, but the states with legal spanking in schools have the most violence, more teen pregnancies, higher incarceration rates and lowest graduation rates. those are facts, not just observations of one school here or there.
i dont' know where you are getting that comprehensive sex ed isn't working either, but once again. the states (mostly in the south, the ones that are the spankers) that have the highest teen pregnancy rate and std rate are the states that teach abstinence only sex ed.
this study in the journal of adolescent health states that those who received comprehensive sex education were 50 percent less likely to become pregnant than those who received abstinence-only education. The study also found that those who received comprehensive sex education were 60 percent less likely to become pregnant than those who received no sex education at all. http://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-1...(07)00426-0/abstract

Dodie - posted on 07/25/2011

Well, I attended school when the strap was used for discipline. If you go into any school where the children "rule the roost", so to speak, you will not be able to hear yourself think never mind speak. During my first 8 years of school, there were only 3 children who actually got to stand at the wrong end. Our school held approximately 350 children in grades 1 to 8. If a child was asked to do something, it was done. Also, there was the threat that, if you got in trouble at school, it would be far less than you were going to be in at home!.
Since the removal of corporal punishment in schools, I have witnessed teachers being hit by as young as a grade 3 student--I worked in an elementary & high school working with children as a councillor & sitting in for other employees in study halls & in-school suspension classes, as well as with special needs children.--striking a teacher on more than one occasion. There have been serious incidents in the Junior High & High School classes where teachers have been punched, hit with books, threatened with guns & knives, & kicked after being knocked to the ground. These are incidents which have been happening since corporal punishment has been removed from the schools, the whole point of said action being not to teach our children violence. Well, apparently, it's not working.
There are only a few major changes in Western Society as practised by & in schools in the USA & Canada. One is the loss of corporal punishment in the school. Another, of course, is the internet (calculators, in my never-to-be-humble opinion, should not be introduced before grade 9, but that's another kettle of fish for another day.). A third is the mass migration away from Religious teaching--not necessarily church-going, but at least teaching children the 10 commandments & for what they have stood in the last 3000 years, give or take.
You can talk &/or yell at children until you are blue in the face, but with nothing that they fear to back it up, you are wasting your breath. Also, telling children about sex & drugs too early is not helping, either. There are more live births to children--& yes, I call anyone under 20 a child, & anyone under 30--for you know the ability to think logically is not hardwired in the brain until then--to be just a burgeoning adult.--under the age of 17 now than at any other time in the past several decades, unless the two "consenting" partners were married. This, of course, is not taking into consideration the number of abortions that are being performed on a daily basis to children as young as 14, WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS KNOWLEDGE!!! The spread of venereal diseases is at an all-time high, as well; which, in most cases, is far more deadly that pregnancy.Therefore, we are forming our future generation. As children, they have no ability to understand the explanations we are presently giving them. For the little children, explaining sex to them is like trying to explain English/French/Spanish/whatever type of Grammar to a child who is just learning how to speak. To a teenager, it is giving them free licence to have sex, &, in a culture where illegal & legal drugs are easier to obtain than for any previous generation, there are more children at ever-decreasing ages who are taking them.
If you want a child to do something, a swat on the petudy is a powerfully persuasive tool, No, I am not advocating beating a child with a stick or any other foreign object. However, my children got a few swats on their behinds, as did many of the foster children that wandered through my home over the years. Many of them swat their own children's bottoms, too! I am in touch & close to all but one of my Step-, Bio- & Foster Children, & have many, many Grandchildren. All of them respect my way of parenting, & many say that they would not be where they are today without a serious threat of a spanking. You see, I never had to raise my voice to any of them. I had a little decorative set of wooden spoons sitting atop my refridgerator. Each of them wouldn't weigh but a few grams. However, if I asked one of my Children: "Do you want to speak with Mr. Good Manners?" There would be quick moves to do as they were supposed to be doing or an apology for what they had just done. There were rewards for work accomplished, as long as it was the best work possible for that particular Child's abilities. I really have come to believe--some of my Children have told me this, as well:)--that the threat of a swat/spanking/call it what you will was nearly always enough of a detriment! It embarrassed them the first time, for, as my Sainted Mum always said: "Nothing gets hurt but their pride!!" & she was right!
So, after all this, I have to give you a resounding: "YES!!" Bring back "quality controlled" corporal punishment at home & in schools. For the children who have abusive parents will be abusive whether there is corporal punishment in schools or not. Just remember that the child's deed sometimes has to be looked past to get the real problem. Sometimes it's fixable, sometimes not; but, let's teach our Children, at least, that wrong behavior is not acceptable in social situations outside the home. Also, while we're at it, lets bring the ability back to the teachers to be able to give a hug to a hurt or sad child, or kiss a bo-bo on a little Child's knee or elbow or hand. I think it's far worse to have taken that away than it would be to reinstall corporal punishment in the school system.
That's my very-long-winded-as-usual-never-to-be-humble-well-backed-up-well-researched Opinion!!
God Bless you All...Dodie/Nana

Jodi - posted on 07/25/2011

Good point Krista......

Krista - posted on 07/25/2011

Besides, what's the point of your kid's teacher being allowed to hug him if he's also allowed to brutally beat him with a wooden paddle?

Rebecca - posted on 07/25/2011

The head of the drama department at my theatre college used to be notorious about saying, "Can I touch you?", before he even touched our shoulder.

That was in the late 90's. I'm thinking it was a big issue with them. In a performance college with a lot of guest instructors from the industry - no touchy, touchy!

Jenn - posted on 07/25/2011

I believe the no hug policy applies to the upper grades, not elementary. With as many inappropriate and sick relationships teachers have had with students, it is understandable there would be no hugging junior high and up. My daughters elementary teachers hug and they do not have corporal punishment...nor does their junior high (it is a charter school just starting to go through 8th grade this year).

Amie - posted on 07/25/2011

No Sherri they can not. It saves them trouble. I believe, I could be wrong when the teacher explained it to me was a long time ago, it was to save grief about sexual misconduct. Which makes sense.



I do know teachers who do hug, with permission from the student and if they're young from the parent. It's just not something that the school board approves of. It's probably why you notice the teachers being especially rigid during certain times too. Someone from the school board is around. lol

September - posted on 07/25/2011

I do not agree with corporal punishment in schools and no, I would not sign a permission slip to allow my child to be spanked. I think it's just ridiculous!

Sherri - posted on 07/25/2011

Your teachers can't hug their students?!?!? Oh thank goodness all of our teachers can hug our children. That would make me sooooo sad if they couldn't be shown any love.

Also thank goodness we don't have out of school suspensions either. All your suspensions are done in school. You are forced to sit in a room all day with a monitor and are not allowed to leave that room till the end of the school day for any reason. They even bring your lunch to you.

Amie - posted on 07/25/2011

Jennifer,



That is surprising to me too! I was told, by a teacher, when I was in school the only acceptable place they were allowed to touch us was on the arm between our wrist and shoulder. They weren't allowed to hit either, it was for patting our arm. Since they weren't allowed to hug us. Nowhere else or they would get in trouble from the school board if anyone found out.



I still don't understand why anyone would be ok with this. You are letting someone else decide what is "too far" and also letting someone else hit your child with an object. Something most spanking parents I've seen say is wrong and not what they do.



So if it's not ok for you to do, why is it ok for someone else?



A teacher no less, who may or may not have issues with your child. I had issues with one of the vice principals when I was in HS. It got to the point (he never laid a hand on me, he knew better) where he went too far, he tried to expel him for something I didn't do. It was one of my friends but he liked her and not me so put the blame on me. It was the middle of the winter (which is freaking cold up here) and he wouldn't even let me phone my parents to get a ride home. The receptionist was going to let me call but he freaked out on her and me for trying to use school property. I had to get my stuff and leave. He followed me through the hall to my locker ('cause I was allowed to get my jacket at least) yelling. He followed me right to the door doing the same damn thing. Saying things like "you think you run this school". When I got home, my parents asked me why I was there. I said I didn't know because I didn't at that time. The vice principal just showed up and started yelling at me. When my parents did straighten it out, I was back in school and he was fired from our district.



I was not the only student he treated that way though.



If a teacher can get fired for misconduct and improper handling of students without having implements to hit them with - imagine how many could take it too far when they have that option.

Gina - posted on 07/25/2011

OMG! Those pictures are so disgusting, how can any parent give permission for that? Thank God it's illegal in Australia,though even if it wasn't I would never allow ANYONE to touch my daughter.
The kids in the pictures seem so young, what the hell did they do to get bashed? Like Jodi said this is child abuse and it's so not OK for this to be legal.
I want to know what kind of fucked up teachers can actually do this to a kid,My God their crying would be heartbreaking.This has really upset me, and I thought the U.S.A were big on kids right.

Jodi - posted on 07/25/2011

My apologies. I thought you were using this as justification for corporal punishment with an implement, in particular in schools, but also in general. I went back and saw Amanda's post and now see that this was simply a direct response.

Sherri - posted on 07/25/2011

I was simply clarifying something Amanda posted Jodi. I am well aware as to what the laws read.

Jodi - posted on 07/25/2011

This is hitting a child with an implement. If you read through that link, Sherri, you will find a lot of talk about "reasonable force". I hardly think a paddle or cane is reasonable force in MOST instances. It disgusts me that it is even legal ANYWHERE.



Additionally, most of those laws are in relation to the parent/guardian (as in legal guardian). This does not give any other person any rights whatsoever to lay a hand on a child. And that is what this debate is about.



So....who determines what is reasonable?

Sherri - posted on 07/25/2011

@Amanda Its interesting that teachers can BEAT children in school in USA but in many states its illegal for a parent to spank their child.

Actually their is NO state where it is illegal to spank their child in the US.
http://familyrightsassociation.com/info/...

Jodi - posted on 07/25/2011

I still recall stories of parents of friends of mine who received raps across the knuckles for using their left hand instead of their right. Thank goodness that was well before my day, but yeah, there are people all for going back to abuse?

And if you can sit there and say, "oh, no, I don't mean for things like THAT, just for REAL things that are out of line".....ask yourself who draws the line? Hmmmm???

Ashley=) - posted on 07/25/2011

I live in Ireland and this would never happen.I have heard of parents going in like bulls in a china shop.All over teachers just screaming at there kids etc.Which is not nice either but can you imagne if they were hitting kids in our schools.War would break out.lol..parents would go crazy.

Tara - posted on 07/25/2011

Disgusting and if it had been a parent who did this to a child they would be arrested for child abuse. (here in Canada anyways).
This behaviour is deviant and abhorrent and the perpetrators of such actions should be held legally accountable for child abuse.
Children go to school to learn (supposedly) they go to school to develop their individual skills and abilities. They DON'T go to school to be beaten, to be humiliated and to be treated like livestock.
This is a disgrace on the entire US education system.
The fact that this still goes on in 20 states is disgusting and frightening.
If it were my kid coming home with an ass like that, I would be heading down to the school to deliver same punishment.
Bend over Mr. Teacher, I've got something for you. It might hurt a bit, but who knows perhaps you will like it, and perhaps you will want it more and more. And perhaps you will become a sexually deviant rapist who enjoys inflicting pain on his victims...or perhaps a pedophile who likes to spank little boys before molesting them...
Disgusting and barbaric and archaic, fire all their lazy asses and send them to work in a prison instead.

Jenni - posted on 07/25/2011

Ummm.. I'm going to go with "No." I would never send my child to a school that promoted corporal punishment. I would certainly never sign a permission slip to have someone else abuse my child. Nor would I want them to be witness to this sort of abuse of power by those who are suppose to be their mentors and teachers. I would not want them to see this behaviour being the norm. I would not support a school that condoned abuse. Disgusting.



The first province in Canada to ban corporal punishment in schools was BC in 1973. The other provinces/territories amended their education acts to completely ban corporal punishment by:



1989 Nova Scotia Education Act

1990 New Brunswick Schools Act

1990 Yukon Education Act

1993 P.E.I. School Act

1995 North West Territories and Nunavut Education Act

1997 Newfoundland Schools Act

1997 Quebec Education Act

2005 Saskatchewan Education Act

2009 Ontario Education Act



I'm actually surprised by this, I live in Ontario and I have NEVER heard of a school using corporal punishment while I was a student since 1987. I remember my mom saying she got the strap once in HS (in the '70s) but that they didn't do that in schools anymore. I remember as a child being shocked and horrified by the thought and relieved it was abolished.



Btw: she got it for playing a prank on her friend by putting a rubber snake in her pencil case. She was strapped across the hand with ruler but later apologized to when they spoke with her after the fact. They had assumed she played the prank to be cruel but the girls explained it was a friendly practical joke. So much for the 'talk first'. :/

Ashley=) - posted on 07/25/2011

In my dads day they were caned and no permission was needed.Thank god this does not happen now.
If my girls came home like those pictures.I would put that teacher 6ft under.i mean that..children are not angels all the time but for Christ sake the don't deserve to be hurt, caned, spanked or treated in any way that is not positive.

Jodi - posted on 07/25/2011

OK, my son was suspended from school for a day last semester. I am not going to go into detail, because I don't think it is necessary. It wasn't because he was a bad kid. It was because he had a moment where he made a bad choice. Everyone does at some point. Back in the day, he probably would have received a caning.



I DON'T believe physical punishment would have been in any way constructive on this occasion at all. It would not have solved the problem, and in fact, would only have compounded it. The day suspension was an "in school" suspension, which meant he still went to school for the day (so yeah, no day off), but had to sit in a detention room for the day and do his school work, instead of being permitted in class or permitted to participate at lunch and recess. It gave him a LOT of time to consider his actions. I feel this is sufficient in dealing with the situation at hand. I cannot, for the life of me, see the need for a caning.

Ashley=) - posted on 07/25/2011

Feen that actually brought tears to my eyes reading your post.You poor thing.That must of been awful.





I would never send my child to a school that hurt kids.I would not allow anyone to raise a hand to my kids and i won't have them seeing others hit , caned,spanked what ever you want to call it either.



I would refuse to send my kids to a school who are given the right to hurt kids.That second link is horrific.What sort of dumb parents give permission for this to happen to there kids.



SHAME on the parents and SHAME on the schools.:-(

Rosie - posted on 07/25/2011

feen that is fucking horrid!! i'm so sorry that had to happen to you.
that's what bugs me equally as someone just hitting my kid, how the hell do we know what they are hitting for and how hard? anybody who thinks this should be allowed should have their child taken from them. it makes me sick.

Sal - posted on 07/25/2011

feen that is awful and is not in anyway what i view canning in a school setting to be, that is assult of a child.....
the canning that i view to be suitable to have in school, is only for high school children only anyway, i can't see it as suitable for primary school anyway, it is also only used after a number of other other efforts have been made to deal with on going and unacceptable behaviour, from my memory it was some where on the scale around the suspension/ expulsion area, (i have been out of school for quiet a while and i can;'t remember exactly where) was carried out after a meeting with parents and only in the prinicpals office and only by the principal...
this is clearly a case where we have had seriously different experiences of what we refered to as the same thing, this is why i have had no real issue of it still being part of a complete system of punishment, and this is why it worked for my brother, he wasn;t scared of being smacked with a cane in the class, he was scared of the whole ordeal, and it made him think of what he was doing, not sitting in class to scared to sneeze..
i am so sorry for the way that man treated you.

Erin - posted on 07/25/2011

Ok seriously... those photos turned my stomach. Whether they were taken last week or last decade, it doesn't matter. That is an atrocious abuse of power and bodily integrity. People would get locked up for doing that to their dog, and yet somehow it's ok for a teacher to do it to a student? I don't fucking think so.

The cane was still in when I was very young. Several boys in my class got it. It certainly wasn't always for a major transgression, and it made absolutely no difference to their behaviour.

So no, I would not sign a permission slip for a teacher to abuse my child with a weapon. And frankly, the idea that anyone would makes me want to vomit.

Charlie - posted on 07/25/2011

Well I was "caned" in kindergarden daily because the boy next to me liked o sharpen his pencil and stab me with it, when I would cry out in pain the teacher ( who had a fetish for little boys ) would take me and belt me over the ass with a metre ruler for crying over the stabbing until I finally came home with an ass that looked like the photos above covered in my own piss because I was terrified. They didnt need permission back then they just did , I was lucky enough to have a father who actually gave a shit about me enough to march into that school and make sure that man never laid a hand on me again .

This is the point the parents dont know the teacher , they dont know their reasoning , they dont know how "guilty" a child is ........what was done to me and to those children in the photos reguardless of reason is fucked up , abusive and heinous.

When you allow them all to have this power , you allow them ALL and as a teacher , a parent and a person I stand by my statement that ANY teacher who can do this to another persons child has no place in a school.

Sal - posted on 07/25/2011

jodie, maybe i have been too close to some of the talk talk talk people for too long and saw some terrible consquences for children who constantly had excuses made on their behalf,. and i can only imagine the poor kid who ended up locked up might of prefered to of behaved at school (even if it was the fear of the cane that made him) and that he was too busy doing home work to break into the neibours house or mug the old lady he did, than ending up in the clinck becasue he thought there was no reprocussions to his acts

Charlie - posted on 07/25/2011

"how ever these kids are living in a world with out consquesnces"

Then give them consequence Im still baffled as to why it has to be a paddling though , Ive seen teachers use positive disciplinary actions on some out of control students and it has worked , I have worked with teachers who have done the same and they get results simply by I dont see why they need to stoop to that level .

Still; reguardless no one ....not even the delinquent kid out for anarchy deserves to be abused with a weapon , its a quick fix that in the end fixes nothing.

Sal - posted on 07/25/2011

yes the average child is not a criminal. nor would the average child need to worry about the cane or a paddle, the same as well behaved children needn't worry about being spanked, as far as i was concerned this was about children who do not behave in accordance to the school behaviour code.....and i don't in any way condone a hit first talk later policy, but anything that is going to make a child (or anyone) take a moment from their rant or tantrum and think about the less than attrative consquence is probally not too bad an idea....if my child chooses not to hit a teacher (the only thing i ever knew the cane to be given for) because he thought he might get the cane then well it worked.

Jodi - posted on 07/25/2011

Sal, I think you may be confusing the stance AGAINST any corporal punishment in schools with children having no discipline at all. No one is suggesting that bad behaviour should be acceptable to a school, but there are MANY disciplinary measures schools take in order to curb the bad behaviour. Also, no-one is suggesting that coming from a bad home makes bad behaviour ok, but the suggestion is that beating the shit out of them at school isn't going to make it better......so why do it?

I am actually confused by your posts to be honest.

Sal - posted on 07/25/2011

this is not the spanking debate here,
and i know that talking and listening to issues that face kids who are having difficulties in school is the first and most imorportant step in any problem child, and i will always advocate for that....
i doubt that in our modern society that a canning or paddeling would have any positive effect on our kids at all, it did work in my brothers case, he was acting up as he was "one of the boys" and they all loved to play the clown and see how far they could push the teachers, it became such an issue in the school they bought back the cane, the idea of being canned alone without and audiance was unapealing and the behavious basically stopped, in all my time at school i can't remember more than 3 people getting the cane,
what i do get so frustrated with is all the people on here (and other places) who say they are advocating for childs rights, yes me too, some kids have a shit time, they are abuses and neglected, there is far too much drinking and drugs in homes, how ever, in many kids that i have wittnessed they have any number of people talking for them, to them, making excuses for them often very valid excuses, how ever these kids are living in a world with out consquesnces, and in the end all the talk teaches them nothing but how to make excuses for bad behaviour, some behavoiur can not be tollerated no matter how crap your home life is, breaking and entering in a 12 year old, a 18 year old a 20 or 40 year old are all unnacetable, if the 12 year old gets away with a stern talking to and then councelling why would he think it is any different as a 16 or an 18 year old, actions speak louder than words,

Charlie - posted on 07/25/2011

If a child is acting out because of lack of discipline and boundaries than the answer is to give them JUST that , it shouldnt have to involve a teacher using a weapon on their ass even criminals get more rights than that.

I dont think one persons background can speak for everyones though , many people have troubled youths some are deeply affected others not so much ....one persons ability to make it through does not negate the fact another child doesnt have the skill to wade through it and they shouldnt be punished for that.

The average child is not a criminal though , a kid mucking up in class is not a kid breaking into a house and yet somehow in reguards to the post the criminal would have more human
rights.

Kylie - posted on 07/25/2011

I was being facetious Sal. You dont teach those things by ruling with a paddle.

Jodi - posted on 07/25/2011

All this bad behaviour you are talking about, however, is not going to be fixed by a paddling or caning at school, so I am confused by your argument, Sal. After all, no-one is suggesting NO disciplinary action.

Amie - posted on 07/25/2011

Sal,
You obviously don't understand positive discipline homes. You are describing homes that have deep seeded problems for many varying reasons.

Those homes are not positive discipline homes. Those homes sound like their is little to no discipline in them.

Your view is coming across as spanking HAS to be a part of a parents discipline regime. Without it, children will run amok and become criminals.
It really is highly offensive. Maybe you don't mean to come across this way?

Now - I'm really going to bed.

Sal - posted on 07/25/2011

ohh and what makes you think that just because i chose to behave at shool i had no issues at home, my father was a serious alcholic, my mother was mentally ill and i spent more time than i care to think about looking after my younger brother and sister becasue my mum worked weekends as to avoid my father and he was too drunk to notice, yet still behaved,

Sal - posted on 07/25/2011

yes actually i do kellie, i'm not an idiot, just that it is no excuse for bad behaviour, there is more help for kids now then there ever was, i have lived in an area where there was an enormous family problems, there was drugs child abuse, drinking malnutrition and more domestic violence than you can comprehend, and it was exactly as i just posted, make then excuse at home, make the exuse at school. tell the excuse to the judge, then tell it to the prison councerlor, it was time and time again, one poor kid after getting refused bail for repetedly breaking his cerfew after a string of break and enter offences was sobbing in the back of the police van saying why was this happening, he didn;t think he'd actaully get put in gaol, my hubbbys poor colleuge, had to tell him that his nan couldn;'t get him out this time, it was too may, the police had been telling him for months if he kept braking cefew he'd be put in detention and he just laughed it off and though it was all a game.....talk done him no fucking good at all

Sal - posted on 07/25/2011

hmmmm start talking it out making excuses at home, then talk it out and make excuses at school then ohhh look you get to talk it out and make excuses in court, and then they can talk and get understanding from their prison shrink!!!!
I think that you are right we need to have and teach our kids compassion and understanding, we need to have respect for them and give them a voice but we also need to teach them how to act and behave, sometimes all we do is talk talk talk and give them respect and find any excuse for their behaviour and they take for granted that there is never any serious consequences for their action, and it just isn;t the answer for everything, it helps it should be tried, but is isn;t the answer for everything,

Kellie - posted on 07/25/2011

Do you have ANY idea what some kids are dealing with at home Sal? There are many MANY reasons why children/kids/teens act out. There are many MANY kids coming from abusive homes and act out because they have NO other coping tools available to them, I was one so I know first hand, I have also worked with many teens from abusive backgrounds. Do I think this is the case for all? No.

I'm so very glad you had no issues and are a perfectly behaved person. Once again, not everyone is you, therefore it stands to reason not everyone is going to model their behaviour exactly like you.

Amie - posted on 07/25/2011

Sal, your post is confusing and hard to read. It may be because I'm tired though.

I didn't mean ask the kid and take them at their word. Obviously that is one aspect of it but it's not the only way to get to the bottom of a problem.

"i did a parenting course (1 2 3 magic) and one of the main themes was that kids get "lost in a sea of blah" whixh pretty much ment you talk, and talk, reason , look for something that is causing the behaviour, and guess what the kids stopped listening ages ago, (and from reading all the sensible discussion from non spanking mums here i can see why) they need something that stays in their mind, and clearly for some kids the thought of the cane stuck....."

I have no idea what you are saying here. Did you just say that non spanking parents have kids who are not listening because we talk to them repeatedly?

"i do smack on the rare occation it is needed in my house, and i have 3 kids ranging from 3 to 16 so i;m not some 1 kid mum with a toddler who can;t see how exaustion and a difiant child just might make you behave in a fashion you never thought you would...."

All it takes is one defiant child to see how you MIGHT react in certain situations. The difference comes about in how you actually react.

Please don't tell me you told your son he was acting like a tool. I hope that was a shocking post for our benefit and you don't actually talk down to your children like that.


Feen:

"If a child is acting because their is no fear of consequences than the adult in charge should have a good hard look at themselves , their delivery and just how well they are enforcing that boundary.

A teachers tool kit should NEVER include a paddle and if they cannot see themselves doing the job without it then I have to say they have NO place in the classroom."

Exactly!! You never need raise a hand (or paddle) to get respect and to have children behave.

I'm going to bed now. It's late, again.

Charlie - posted on 07/25/2011

Parents dont really know the teacher though , they dont know what they are thinking , what upsets them, are they a sadist ( and if you ask me they would have to be to take a weapon to someone elses childs ass ).

How can anyone put faith in a person to get physically aggressive with their child without having true intimate knowledge of who they are as a person.

We had certain teachers at school who commanded the attention of EVERYONE in the class ...even the branded "class clown " they related to the child , they were firm but kind ...I remember these classes , I remember the teachers .
If a child is acting because their is no fear of consequences than the adult in charge should have a good hard look at themselves , their delivery and just how well they are enforcing that boundary.

A teachers tool kit should NEVER include a paddle and if they cannot see themselves doing the job without it then I have to say they have NO place in the classroom.

Kylie - posted on 07/25/2011

Yeah your right Sal. Fuck all the talking and understanding, we dont need compassion or to teach young people about respect and effective communication. I mean.. they are just children, they dont need a voice or to value themselves... lets just put fear in them, beat them when they step out of line. It's so simple really isn't it.

Sal - posted on 07/25/2011

ohhh my god....isn't there just some kids who get away with what they can, all kids will find a "reason "why they are acting out, and often they do it because they know there is no reproussion to not doing it and looking like a hero in front of your mates is more appealing than getting a detention is scary, he needed something that made him stop and think about his actions, and the very real threat of the cane, alone with the teacher wasn't much of an option,,,,,however i think if it was a public canning he would of been there putting on a show,
i did a parenting course (1 2 3 magic) and one of the main themes was that kids get "lost in a sea of blah" whixh pretty much ment you talk, and talk, reason , look for something that is causing the behaviour, and guess what the kids stopped listening ages ago, (and from reading all the sensible discussion from non spanking mums here i can see why) they need something that stays in their mind, and clearly for some kids the thought of the cane stuck.....
for the record i am in aus, our school doesn't have the cane, i doubt i would sign it if it did, i do smack on the rare occation it is needed in my house, and i have 3 kids ranging from 3 to 16 so i;m not some 1 kid mum with a toddler who can;t see how exaustion and a difiant child just might make you behave in a fashion you never thought you would....
and kellie, i still can;t see why kids can't behave in school. i tell my son all the time that any misbehaviour in school is unacceptable, the teachers aren't there to put up with his shit and bad mood, get in get your work done and stop acting like a tool,....

Charlie - posted on 07/25/2011

It's sickening really.

Amie - posted on 07/25/2011

Sal, I'd prefer to find out why a child is acting out and remedy that situation then to scare them into obedience. =/

I agree with the others who are appalled at this. No child deserves to be spanked, let alone hit with an object. =/ Good grief.

Kellie - posted on 07/25/2011

" i got through my entire 13 years of school with no detentions or serious misbehaviour so why can;'t others"

Because, quite simply, not everyone is you Sal.

And as for Psychologically terrorising children into submission....I'm appalled.....

I also agree with Jodi and Kylie. And I am EXTREMELY Thankful I live in Australia.