Spanking..not the same old debate...

Tah - posted on 05/04/2011 ( 118 moms have responded )

7,412

22

358

So I'm watching Lisa lampanelli....don't judge me..lol. And she said that she hates that white women spoil their kids and never spank them, but how she loves that black women will take off their hair and nails And show little Tommy whose who..and heck she will spank other peoples kids...and even though the whole time she was being racist and somewhat offensive with all her gay, chink, black, white jokes, from a black womens perspective, she was being honest..except about taking off the hair and nails..lol...so it made me wonder...



Is spanking your kids cultural?...



Do you think one uses spanking more out of any one?



Why? And which?



This isn't a spanking right or wrong thread..so don't be afraid...

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Barb - posted on 06/08/2011

3,372

15

198

Mature people can actually discuss cultural diversity without being assholes. bless their hearts.

Jodi - posted on 05/04/2011

26,472

36

3891

Ok, this is not racist, because I am in no way racist, but, I question whether it "could" be associated with level/breadth/type of education? I in no way believe that all white women don't spank, and all black women spank, because that is just an absurd generalisation, the same as any other racist judgement would be. However, I suspect, that in some way, there is a different academic/cultural AND religious education between the two?



I could be wrong too. I'm really just going with random thoughts here. I thought I'd throw that into the ring :D



I personally can't comment on who spanks more than who other than what I see on reality TV, because I have no personal experience, and we all know that is bullshit, so basically, I have no idea what I am talking about, just throwing around random thoughts, LOL.



On another note, seriously, what a RACIST perspective she has projected!! And spanking other people's kids? I'm not even going there.

Lacye - posted on 06/09/2011

2,011

31

160

OMG! I have been looking for this thread for God knows how long! Dang it! But that's ok, I'm back! As I had said many pages back, I think it has more to do with not caring what other people think than anything else. If I went to town with my mother, I knew I better behave because she would have spanked me in the middle of the store. If I had dared to call the cops on her, she would hand me the phone and tell me that she had plenty of time to beat my ass before they got there. The same for most black women that I have met. You really don't see that many black kids acting up in the store. If I spank my child in the store, I get dirty looks, that's ok because I give the dirty looks back. I don't care about other's opinions. The only time I spank my daughter in public is when she's getting really bad and is fixing to hurt herself. For example, the other day I was at Wal-Mart waiting for my husband to get off work. My daughter was trying to stand up in the buggy. Not the big part of the buggy but the small part where people mostly put their kids or their purses. Yes she got a spanking. She was fixing to fall out of the seat and she wouldn't sit still. Now if my daughter is just throwing a temper tantrum, I have figured out that if I blow air in her face she quits. Doesn't hurt her but hey, it gets her attention and it distracts her.

Jodi - posted on 06/08/2011

26,472

36

3891

Kind of like there was nothing racist in the last thread either.....people seem to read what they want into things.

Barb - posted on 06/08/2011

3,372

15

198

Yes, i do think spanking as discipline is cultural but there is a difference between culture and race.

My husband was raised in Beavercleaverland. That is a culture. Middle class, Midwestern, national homes neighborhood, raised in the 60's.

I was raised all over southern California in the 70's and 80's and even though i was spanked as a child i had many friends who's parents were free lovin hippies that had different ideas on discipline. That also is a culture.

I think it's great to discuss cultural diversity. It should be embraced and is something to be proud of.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

118 Comments

View replies by

Charlie - posted on 06/09/2011

11,203

111

401

" I have never thought that spanking would lead to the time of fully grown mature person which I wish to raise. The training in child care and social work I have received, coupled with my life and work experience have lead me to think that there are far better methods of discipline and teaching."

Me too , I have had to use discipline methods that WORK in a school setting without having to spank not only were the "problem children" more responsive but they became more empathetic and caring towards others using positive methods , why would I not afford my children the same ?

Johnny - posted on 06/09/2011

8,686

26

318

Until you mentioned other's opinions as an issue, it never really crossed my mind. I do not spank because I do not think it is as effective as people have convinced themselves of. I have never thought that spanking would lead to the kind of fully grown mature person which I wish to raise. The training in child care and social work I have received, coupled with my life and work experience have lead me to think that there are far better methods of discipline and teaching. I do care that other people think well of my child, it will ease her journey in life. That is part of why I don't spank actually



**Edited to change time to kind (because it didn't make sense...).

Charlie - posted on 06/09/2011

11,203

111

401

HAHA If I cared what other parents thought I would have jumped on the spanking bandwagon a long time ago !

Luckily I care more my kids than I do for the opinion of other parents .

Jodi - posted on 06/09/2011

26,472

36

3891

Lacye, I disagree with that. I don't care what people think. I don't choose not to spank my kids because of what other people think. I choose not to because it isn't necessary. Do you really believe that the choice to spank or not to spank is about caring what OTHERS think? Please ladies, put up your hand if you choose not to spank your child because you worry what others will think.......

I suspect the crickets will be chirping.

Jurnee - posted on 06/09/2011

3,790

22

110

Im 42 years old and when I was growing up everyone got spanked. Actually they were called beatings, the only difference I saw was the method used, wooden spoon, belt, I had a friend whose mom was a great shoe thrower. Its just how things were done then. I have friends of all races and colors and I think as a group I would say that we spank less than our parents did, and we dont use objects. It may have something to do with level of education more than race or culture, as said in a previous post.

Tah - posted on 06/09/2011

7,412

22

358

You know, I shouldnt have said what I said about spanking not being abuse because it will turn this into a thread about that, and it's been done to death, same arguments on both sides yadda yadda...this is about if spanking is cultural, so let's try to keep the focus on that, thanks...



Tah

Merry - posted on 06/09/2011

9,274

169

248

I know when I spanked Eric I felt immediately like it was abuse. I consciously try not to spank because I feel like spanking my kid is abuse.
I didn't feel abused as a child getting spanked, but it did instil in me the instinct to hit when mad and so my parents inadvertently caused me to 'abuse' my child.
I think no hitting is ok

[deleted account]

a.) Spanking can very quickly become abusive. It's a slippery slope and everyone's definition of "spanking" is different. My parents used to "spank" me with a belt, and a wooden spoon.



b.) Spanking is an abuse of power. We TOWER over our toddlers, yet some of you feel the need to impose your will physically over them? The mere size of you compared to them is intimidating.

Tah - posted on 06/09/2011

7,412

22

358

abuse is one thing and it is serious, there is difference between spanking and abuse however.

Nancy - posted on 06/08/2011

64

29

1

I did want to come back on something I read tho...It does not matter what race, religion or whether you were beaten or not in your home...abuse is not right, even if you grew up with it. I'll give you an example...
I have been an abused child...when my daughter was about one she was whining and I slapped her across the head, her tipping over leaving her with a bump on the head. I didn't hit my daughter much, no need to, but the last time I hit her she was two. Let me just say this...I really saw the damage I had done with my daughter, then two, had a bruised chin and cheek...It opened my eyes and I told myself that I would never hit my daughter ever again...Still today I held word to that! Yes, I grew up being abused, but I was not going to repeat this vicious circle I was in. I feel guilty every day although my daughter says she does not remember. Every day is a reminder of what I had done...just being I grow up with the abuse. God opened my eyes that day and taught me there were better and other things to discipline my child.
I hope with writing this that none of you will be hating on me. I learned my lesson and my daughter is now a beautiful 17 year old who is kind, loving and smart!

Nancy - posted on 06/08/2011

64

29

1

I tell ya what...touch my kid and I'll touch you...Nobody will ever lift a finger on my daughter...I don't care if you white or black!
With that said, I hardly spanked my daughter at all. I was an abused child myself and knew how much it hurt. I believe that giving your child a good spanking is not bad at all. These days we can't hardly discipline our children as it is without having to answer to a judge. There is however a fine line between spanking and beating!! I rather take something away from my child then spanking tho...

Erin - posted on 06/08/2011

6,569

25

232

** Mod Notice **

Guys, PLEASE do not continue yesterday's issues in this thread. It was locked and deleted for a reason.

Thanks,
Erin - DM Mod

Jodi - posted on 06/08/2011

26,472

36

3891

And promptly apologised for when it was pointed out to you the true intention?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/08/2011

19,001

9

3003

Exactly my point from yesterday that everyone was dismissing. Different perspectives.

Dana - posted on 06/08/2011

11,264

35

489

She's a comedian, no holds barred -even her own race. It's about making fun of stereotypes and some stereotypes being true. I find nothing wrong with it.
I think it's only really racist if you're picking on every race but your own. Not to mention, it's truly harmless stuff.

Barb - posted on 06/08/2011

3,372

15

198

Cassie, the content of the show wasn't the question of the OP. The content of the show conceived a question from the OP.

The questions asked by the OP can be conducive to a mature discussion on cultural differences, if those who participate can be mature.

Tah - posted on 06/08/2011

7,412

22

358

cassie, the thing is this has been going that way. noone on here has had a problem with it. People on Dm hear and see things, many offensive everyday and come here to start a debate on them, this is no different. I don't need this thread to be flamed or become a round II for madness that was started in another spanking thread to come over here and derail it when everyone on here, before last night, has been able to discuss this in a very mature manner. Now, many of the things that she said may have been offensive, but when she began to talk about the black women, i did identify with it and i found what she said about THAT funny and it had a ring of truth to it. So i brought it here to be debated and it has gone well, so lets keep it that way as mature adults. if thats not you, please leave well enough alone anyway



thank you

Cassie - posted on 06/08/2011

1,667

22

182

Barb, I agree that we, as mature adults, should be able to discuss cultural and racial differences between us but the content of the show discussed in the OP is offensive and stereotypical and not conductive to a mature discussion on cultural differences.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/08/2011

19,001

9

3003

I wanted to say this on the other thread, but it got so derailed, locked, then deleted that I didn't have a chance to telll this story.

This past Saturday, we took my son to a carnival. We were having a blast, and he wanted to go into the bounce house. We let him in, and he came out screaming about 5 minutes later. And older boy, he was maybe about 9 had kicked him pretty hard in the shoulder...left a mark and my son was crying pretty hard (5yrs old). It was a total accident, my son even said it....then the boy comes out, and comes over...he was so polite. he said "I am so sorry for kicking you. I didn't mean to, and I am sorry I hurt you." My son wiped his tears, and said to him "it's ok". The mom of the other kid was right there, he was stearing clear of her....and she called him over. They were no more than 5 feet from us. I told him, loud enough so the mother could hear "It is ok honey, accidents happen". The mom asked what happened, and the kid told her....she actually PUNCHED in in the forehead...with her knuckles. I was flabbergasted, floored, shocked, pissed, and hurt for the little boy. My son saw this, kinda jumped and looked at me like "help him". I said to the boy, even louder, "it is ok honey, I know you did not mean it. My son is fine, and we forgive you. We are not upset, and everything is ok."

If my kids were not there, I would have said something to the mother....it was so horrible. She didn't even think twice about it. The boy immediately had tears in his eyes, and was so embarrassed. It was obvious this was not the first time for this either.

This is a prime example of abuse. I do not know their race, creed, or culture....all I know is that it was disgusting.

Charity - posted on 06/07/2011

73

17

2

Personally I didn't find it racist at all. I think it's good to have a healthy sense of humor about our differences. As long as it's done in the right setting and with people who feel the same way (about the sense of humor part). I am white but my dad is mexican. I have heard all kinds of jokes. "You're so white, you're transparent." But I have some black friends who like to make fun of the fact that a lot of black people can't swim or don't like cold weather. I have hispanic friend who likes to make fun of the fact that he has enough kids to start his own lawn service. There is nothing wrong with having a sense of humor about who you are and where you come from. Some people take it too far, for sure. That's when you just ignore them. :)

Charity - posted on 06/07/2011

73

17

2

LOL I love this post. I happen to be white and from the north and all 6 of us got spanked. Sometimes time out doesn't mean a thing to a child. I swat my 2 year old's butt if she doesn't do as she's told. I always warn her first. Sometimes I smack her hand if she won't stop touching something she isn't supposed to touch. Or if she hits her baby brother.
I'm not really sure if it's a cultural thing. I often wonder if there are certain things that are cultural. Like, I know quite a few black women who won't allow their sons to cry. They yell at them and tell them to "be a man." But their son is only 2 years old. I've never seen a white lady do that. Now of course, I don't know EVERYONE on the face of the planet so I can't say "every black woman is like that." or "every white woman lets their baby cry."
Sure, I think a lot of what we do is based on the culture we were raised in. But I don't believe that is the same for everyone. There are many people out there who choose to go against the flow of their cultural background. For me, I raise my children the way I was raised because I watched my mom raise me and my 5 siblings and her method worked. We were hugged and kissed and played with and disciplined and fed a healthy diet but still had treats and we were taught that actions come with consequences. All 6 of us grew up to be good people with families of our own.

But then I see other white children whose teeth are rotting and they yell and scream at their parents and get into trouble all the time and I wonder "what the heck?"
So yeah, some things are probably cultural. But not all of it.

~Jennifer - posted on 06/07/2011

4,164

61

365

not you, emma...the whole OP.



(my family is Samoan & Maori, so I'd never go there)



;)

Bernie - posted on 06/07/2011

135

17

6

Sorry I realize how bad my post sounded, I didn't mean to come across as racist as many of my friends are Maori. I could have worded that better. I do appologies if I offended anyone.

~Jennifer - posted on 06/07/2011

4,164

61

365

wow,,,how totally racist......



...

how could you even watch that?



I'd have to change the channel.

Amy - posted on 06/07/2011

4,793

17

369

Could be a cultural thing. don't know. Haven't been around TOO many cultures. I've noticed more city vs country as to who spanks more.

could be generational. Not many spank now....and look at our kids' behaviors. Interesting point to ponder. Although, some cultures spank/discipline differently. I know they say dad is usually disciplinarian. but not in my house growing up. My mom got us immediately when we did something really wrong. Spankings were not often, but sure counted when we did something awful. We knew it was awful and really, at the time and looking back, i know why she did it. I never felt unloved. I never felt abused. I've heard some cultures spank more because they have worse tempers. Our spanks were right away and one quick, hard swat and then yep...we talked about what we did, why and why it was wrong after. maybe we talked about it because we're white. lol. my friend is mexican and she said her mom would spank her and just go "you know why!". :D

Bonnie - posted on 06/07/2011

4,813

22

257

I think anyone can be a spanker. IMO it is not cultural and it doesn't surface around one culture more than an another.

Merry - posted on 06/07/2011

9,274

169

248

Yup, not education, I didn't graduate high school, (technically) and I am 100% against spanking......

Tah - posted on 06/06/2011

7,412

22

358

I agree Sherri, I understand very well development and psyche of children, toddlers etc, everything I've studied in college, nursing school etc requires them and I love it..but I spank, so it's not always a factor as far am I'm concerned either

Sherri - posted on 06/06/2011

9,593

15

387

I don't know about culture but I do know that education has nothing to do with it. I am a college graduate and so is almost everyone in my circle. We are all spankers. We also all spank each others children as well.

Tah - posted on 06/06/2011

7,412

22

358

The more I look at it, I think culture may have more to do with it then people think. Of course there are other factors but I don't think culture is a small part but bigger than we think.

Sharon - posted on 05/22/2011

11,585

12

1314

I remember growing up with a variety of families around me. Asian, black, white, etc.

I distinctly remember two women who felt free to whoop the tar out a child with a serious transgression.

One we were teasing a fat girl who was out riding her bike. The boys were trying to shove a stick through the spokes of her bike. The rest of us were just laughing and egging them on. Another girl ran & told her mom. She came charging out and said didn't care if that fat girl (not her words) wasn't her daughter but we kids weren't to treat another human being that way. She had her old mans' heavy leather belt in her hand and she whooped every one of us.

I can promise you. For the next two years we lived there, we were all friends/friendly with that fat girl. She had a nasty disposition and it was hard to be friends with her.

Another, punished us for tattling to often. Her child was a true bitch. Always doing things to hurt other kids physically & emotionally. Her dad was a minister/pastor on base and often had lot of personal information about other families. That child often used the information to dig at other kids. Anyway - we didn't like her much and her mom would punish her when we tattled. Until she got sick of her doorbell being rung every half hour. Apparently she told her daughter that the next child who rang her bell would get spanked. Her daughter - of course - did not pass that information on. A boy went to tattle about her breaking toys and she spanked him with her bare hand. I think she lost it a little.

In the case of us being cruel - I TOTALLY understood it. Most of our parents were gone shopping or at work and there wasn't anyone to discipline us. I would support it, if it had been my kids.

One was black and the other was white. One was pretty clearly sorta nuts. That was the white one.

Out of the families I knew - all races spanked their kids. What I saw was the families that didn't spank at all had rotten ass mean kids.

Oh and I know that abuse happens in all races, but I never heard of it or saw it amongst my friends who were spanked. I don't recall any of them just being whacked about when their parents were angry at them.

Amanda - posted on 05/22/2011

166

39

7

well, the way i was raised my parents used spanking. I use spanking too but not as my only method of discipline. I haven't ever thought of spanking being cultural. it doesn't matter what color you are or where you came from spanking is spanking and all races of ppl use it. and i have to add that i agree with what Veronica posted earlier on this topic

Merry - posted on 05/08/2011

9,274

169

248

I know lots of Christians who spank, it's not a different race, but it is a different type of culture, so I also know many christians who don't spank, but I do see a large following of Christians spanking.
We don't, but both of us were spanked as kids.

Tia Melissa - posted on 05/07/2011

69

11

2

I'm not sure one way or another if it's cultural. I do think that the more you settle into the mainstream "anglo" value system, the less likely you are to spank as a first resort - publically. (I'm having horrific visions of 80's movie actors named Biff in pastel polo shirts saying "Oh, ah'll bet!!) I also believe there is a cultural factor in what the kids are being exposed to. Does the family have to fight against pervasive violence, theft, abuse, drugs, gangs, etc. within their immediate surroundings warranting swifter, seemingly harsher discipline? What example does the father/uncle/grandfather/brother set? But that is about location & values more than culture.

My experience has been that MY white family looks in horror on spanking (but has no issue using emotional abuse) because that's just barbaric, everyone should understand their children and WHY it's not really their fault that they did xyz. If you just TALK to them... I also have a slightly dysfunctional FoO.

I think it can be generational to a degree as well as personality driven - both the kids and the parents. Do you have an extended family influence? Is there a grandparent active? My mother has an MA & my dad an MS - spanked by one and not the other - both anglo and no extended family interaction on either side.

I've been exposed to examples (friends, family, neighbors) ranging from marshmallow discipline leading to absolute snots who will spit on you if they don't get their way to truly awful child abuse at the hands of addicts/mentally ill and not all in the cultures and education ranges you'd suppose.

My husband's family is a farm family. They were spanked to varying degrees, depending on personality and response to other forms of discipline but the family did everything together and and are amazing people - as are their kids. My husband rarely spanks and only then a disapproving pat for disrespect issues.

We've been pretty much on the same page with the kids from day 1 despite the differences in how we were raised.

Really, IMO, it boils down to this - Parenthood & raising kids to be good people crosses all cultural & generational boundaries and honestly so does spanking. There isn't a culture out there that doesn't use a swat to the behind to some degree or another.

[deleted account]

I absoultely think it is cultural. I mean dont get me wrong all races spank but like im hispanic and i know ( my opinion!) that "we" spank a lot. I think we do more than the caucasions. but thats just me.

Jay - posted on 05/06/2011

19

0

28

@ Amber



And your aunt is Northern Irish and shouldn't be called anything else just to get a reaction, It's not nice that people are still dying in the North, although I have no interest in their politics I would never call someone British for a reaction as I know it can be a touchy subject...

Thanks for asking your aunt though :D xx.

Veronica - posted on 05/06/2011

1,539

61

90

I have to agree with Layce a few pages back - hispanic and african/black women seem to be more dominate and confrontational - they aren't afraid to stand up and make known what they want or think. I am friends with a lot of them, and have been friends with blacks since i was a little girl - to me its more like, "mess with me you'll be sorry'
I am educated, went to college, and am my own business woman - and I spank. There is a sheer difference between spanking for disciplin, and spanking as abuse, and I think the abuse aspect is where people are all up in arms with spanking being condemned.
After several several threads of spanking - yay or nay - and Ive mulled over it, and tried to rationalize why i was spanking my children - and really looking at how and why I did it. I have finally come to my own conclusions and method of use for it.
When my children do something that calls for discipline - i will immediatly give them a swat and immediatly tell them exactly why and what actions they are doing are wrong. I do this because its not the act of spanking them - its the act of immediately disciplining them for what they did. Extensive talk, telling them no over and over, and timeouts dont do anything for my children - they take more advantage of me this way, than they do when I put my foot down. My kids are not afraid of me, nor flinch when i come near to them. They simply stop the behavior in which they were disciplined for - and I will honestly say, that i spank less than I did, because i took care of business immediately instead of wishy washy talk and time outs with my kids.

Anyways - as for cultural... i dont know - i think its simple upbringing, tradition, i think religion plays a part, and i think it depends on the parents and what they want for their children. I dont think anyone should be judged for the discipline they choose because what is good for the goose, isnt always good for the gander. (in other words, what works for you, may not work for me).

Tah - posted on 05/06/2011

7,412

22

358

saying that all of anythng does a certain thing is an oversimplification, so all of what was said in your post jane for the most part lends to culture...or the integration of cultures in being a big factor in the way children are disciplined.

Amber - posted on 05/06/2011

1,909

13

144

@ Jane~ She was raised in Belfast. So, Northern Ireland under the Queen. She doesn't claim herself as British though; she's very proud to be Northern Irish.

I called and chatted with her and she said that she saw it a lot when she was a child and hated it and didn't feel it was effective at all.
So, she decided to never do it with her children. She also said her parents did spank, its her generation of family and friends that don't. But I didn't realize that because I didn't meet them until they were adults lol. Interesting though :)

Jay - posted on 05/06/2011

19

0

28

@ amber.

Ya it is interesting! I was raised in the countryside and so are most people I know, even though I live in the city now. so maybe it is more of a country thing?

And was she from the republic? maybe its less common in the North? I don't know?

Ask her did she know many children who where spanked when she was growing up? although I think most people don't talk about it that much..x

Jay - posted on 05/06/2011

19

0

28

@ Jane Seno
If ambers aunt is from the north she is british and probably wont mind and if she is from the republic she is not british and might not mind either. She MIGHT get offended if she has strong views about the situation in the north, but even if she does, I don't see it as relevant and I don't understand why you would bring it up?
People are still being killed in the north because of their views or religion so just calling a woman (even an aunt) british to see if it has a effect I consider insensitive. And my mum is English and HATES being called british even though her dad is scotish she likes to be called english!

Jane - posted on 05/06/2011

2,390

262

484

The thing is that all of us are products of more than one culture.



Some things your family considers normal behavior may be due to the societal divide that results from being of a specific race. The fact that interracial marriages and relationships are increasing greatly may, over time, lessen this divide.



Yet the church denomination your family attends can influence family norms, so you may have more in common with other members of your church than other folks who attend different churches, such as the divide between Catholics and Baptists and Seventh Day Adventists, all of whom can be black, white or whatever.



The fact that your family is from the southern US as opposed to the northern US will affect how your family approaches childrearing.



Ancestral origin can affect family functions. Take, for example, a black family with Jamaican roots as opposed to a black family with strictly American roots or a black family with South American roots: you will see differences in family culture due to that. In my own family my paternal great grandfather came from Germany. His son, unlike many Americans but like many Europeans, insisted on keeping all of the interior doors in the house closed. This is common in Europe where houses often do not have central heat. Yet my grandmother liked all doors and windows open because her family lived for generations in hot and humid coastal Texas.



The same thing goes for disciplinary methods. Your family norms are a product of many different cultural groups, not just a racial group or a geographical group.



In other words, don't say that someone spanks because they are black, or doesn't spank because they are white. Each family is different, sometimes in subtle ways and sometimes in obvious ways.



So it really is an over simplification to say "all black people" or "all white people" behave in a certain way. The fact is that there are subdivisions and overlaps of all sorts, making the American people fascinatingly diverse.

Tah - posted on 05/06/2011

7,412

22

358

Also Kati..I just looked at the link and the research I could agree with..now the bloggers views on blacks being spanked and it's connection to why there is only now a black president is rubbish...highly qualified blacks have run before..chisolm, Jackson..but America wasn't ready for one and hardly is now..so it came off a little...racist...but.. Another topic for another time

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms