Stroller wars: Seniors vs Babies

Jessee - posted on 11/22/2012

This is all bullshit, there were no senior citizens on in the seats and none wanting to get on, we put up the wheelchair seats to put our strollers there so they wouldn't be in the way of the aisles. it was piss pouring rain. & the bus driver said that many strollers couldn't get on the bus, the bus was practically empty, the bus driver told us all to get off the bus stating the wheelchair seats were only for people in wheelchairs and when we asked what the difference was considering the babies in the strollers couldn't walk and there were no wheelchairs on the bus why we couldn't just put it up he just said get off the bus, we were not going to put our children back out in the rain again and if a senior would have got on we would have moved out of their way and let them sit down, this is ridiculous how much this story has been altered to make the moms look bad, we paid to get on the bus and we were just trying to get home like everyone else, even if the strollers were folded it wouldn't have made anymore room then if we left our babies in the stroller, . AND he was in the wrong, so his SUPERVISOR made him drive us home!

Susanne - posted on 09/12/2011

What about a senior common courtesy? If they see you struggling with a pram, two toddlers and a couple pf bags of shopping? Ive been there struggling and had half a dozen pensioners walk past me tutting because i was in their way and a teenage boy was the only one who offered to help me, he carried my pram onto the bus and my shopping. They say the youth of today has no respect i find that the older generation can be as damn rude as everyone else. Respect as to be earned not given out because of age only.

Angela - posted on 09/05/2011

I agree Sherri, but it is not reality...so maybe some rules would help? i try to to be a good person,courteous and respectful despite what others do... it is who I
am... but it does to help me all the time

Sherri - posted on 09/05/2011

Interesting how everyone thinks they are entitled. Everyone should just be courteous of everyone else, with no expectations of what others SHOULD or SHOULDN'T do. A senior has just as much right to a seat as a parent with a child and vice versa. ]

However, the only true problem I see is peoples entitlement issues and also lack of common courtesy towards others. If those two things would change we would not need to have a debate such as this one.

Susanne - posted on 09/05/2011

This is why i never use public transport. I passed my test after getting fed up of having a baby and a toddler in a tandem pram. Believe me there is no way you can hold a young baby, hold a toddlers hand and fold a pram, now put a few bags of shopping into the equation. Im sorry but I think all buses should have a space for people with pushchairs and if there are plenty of seats on the bus i dont see why the senior citizens cant sit somewhere else.

Angela - posted on 09/01/2011

I was sitting, and I fell forward. I think they do not have seat belts on some (because some do have seat belts been on one) because it is cheaper and yes the risk are low but that does not mean with out risk. I realize a bus is safer than a car but if you say it is safer for preschool age children with out safety equipment vs. safety equipment or seats for them I disagree.

In addition I don't think any child is safe having to stand or with a standing parent in a carrier.

I feel if we could make them safer(buses) and it saves injury or lives that is a good thing.

The real problem is they do not offer any designated space for kids, families. I think they could do so safely and not leave it up to a parent to guess what is best.

Noreen - posted on 08/31/2011

Wow! That is insane! I am glad that we use an Ergo Carrier and leave the stroller home! Your child is safer in a seat anyways then in a loose stroller....

Isobel - posted on 08/30/2011

hmmmm Angela, I disagree...if not...why are there no seat belts on government-run vehicles (because there is less danger?????)

and as for your accident...I do believe that I specifically said "to pull a baby out of your arms IF YOU ARE SITTING"

Angela - posted on 08/30/2011

Hmmm Laura I don't think that is all accurate to base safety on. If that were the case if you have an SUV why do you need a seat belt and babycarseat?
On my personal experience I have had the bus brake so hard I fell forward and had to grab the seat in front of me.

Isobel - posted on 08/28/2011

actually...according to the laws of physics a bus would have to hit something either equally as big or bigger in order to cause enough force to pull a baby out of your arms if you are sitting. Since most vehicles are MUCH smaller than buses, I think that you'd be pretty safe...basically it would be like an SUV running over a bicycle...a whole lotta damage to the bike, not much to the SUV

Angela - posted on 08/28/2011

@Sherri you are right I feel my child is far safer in a plane in her car seat strapped in than on my lap. T As far as the latter group I do not feel they are safe really and could be made a lot safer. I also think it is possible to provide access to safe seating for a child on a bus and senior seating together. I hope someday they will. In the mean time I avoid using it if I can. Drive or ride my bike with my kids. That is what makes me feel safe all around.
We just sit on different sides of the fence on this one :)

Sherri - posted on 08/28/2011

Well Angela we will just have to disagree I feel they are plenty safe, I think school buses are safe and put all my children on one everyday. They are just as safe on a plane, train or bus.

LadyJane - posted on 08/28/2011

With the way I was raised and the way I raise my children, Seniors must always have priority. They bones are more brittle, they're not as fast as they used to be, even if they were able to walk a great deal, they are still more able to get broken bones. For anyone who thinks they should take other transportation just so that children can have their seats, just seems selfish to me. At least if a child breaks a bone, it will heal faster then a senior's bone. Even when my daughter was a baby, I'd still would rather stand then allow any senior to not have those reserved seats.

Even when I was little, We always made sure to get up when a senior came on board, since they are the most weak. Even babies have a stronger bone structure than a senior.

I guess I was raised in a way where seniors were always given top priority along with those who were handicapped. Mothers and babies aren't weak, Strollers can be moved out of the way so that a senior can still be seated comfortably.

My children know that seniors have lived through pieces of history that they may only read in history books and what better resource then those who have lived in the heart of it.

When I did travel by bus when my oldest was a baby, I did in fact put her in my lap when I left my stroller at home, and held her in such way that should there be sudden movement, She'd still be safe. She was always placed facing me rather than facing to the front, so that in case of an incident, I'd have a much better grip to keep her from getting hurt.

Personally, I will continue putting seniors first. Even my children follow my lead. They can fit through windows in an emergency, a senior can't.

Tanya - posted on 08/28/2011

See, and I think they are MOST secure (the way buses are today, anyways) when they are in a secure carrier, facing in to their parent's chest.

Angela - posted on 08/28/2011

Sherri it is not safe for a child to be on your lap, you have a false sense of security. If that bus were to hit another vehicle you can not hold them securely even if you try and that child become a human cannon ball. Just look at the crash test sites. Adult seat belts are not made for and are dangerous for a child. Yes a stroller is not safe either.

It is not my responsibility it is the responsibility of the public transport and society as whole to offer equal safe public transport for all. My responsibility is to support such service with paying more, asking for it, and paying more taxes etc. We have done so for adults, the handicapped and more so why not children?

I will give you an example of safe transport that is equal.

At least in an Airplane I can buy an extra seat, which I do and bring a car seat. The seat will accommodate just as safe transport for myself and child. That is equal access to safe transport. When my child was under two I could choose if I wanted to put her in my lap. I choose the safe route and paid for a seat of her own. I do not have that choice on a bus.



I stated safe equal access, you don't seem to understand and again you are going by your experience that is it. You think how it is for you it is for everyone and thus judge it so. I have travel world wide, state wide, on a bus and I also seen the public school bus system in the USA and was appalled.

I did not always get seats offered to me, I have seen standing room only and over all feel that SAFE comfortable public transport for children and families is NOT ACCESSIBLE on the bus in western society.

Isobel - posted on 08/27/2011

all they have to do is add a "new mother" symbol to that section for handicapped riders section. Nobody is MORE deserving than anybody else...mothers of young children are EQUALLY deserving of those spots as seniors.

I love my city.Even though my kids are 8 and 10, and we only take the subway one stop to school in the morning, half the time when there are no spots available, people get up to offer us seats to sit together.

Why is it so hard? Get up when you see ANYBODY who is having a rougher go than you...pretty simple really.

Sherri - posted on 08/27/2011

It is if you as the responsible parent do your job and keep them safe. Don't just plop them in a seat and assume they are safe. You won't do that at home if they were small sit them on you lap and hold them securely. Know they are secured. I did this on all the buses in FL when we were on vacation so did every other parent. The parents without small children were the ones who stood. Nobody wouldn't give up a seat for a parent with a small child unless you are just a complete ass.

Becky - posted on 08/27/2011

Well, no they're not, really, for the same reason a small child is not as safe riding in a vehicle using only the vehicle's seatbelt. Children's spines and necks are not as strong as an adult's, they do not have the same balance and physical strength as an adult, nor the same coordination. In a sudden stop, an unrestrained child is more likely to fall off the seat or bang their heads on the seat in front of them than an adult is. A child who is made to stand because no one is courteous enough to give up their seat is much more likely to be injured in an accident than an able-bodied adult. So I agree with Angela on that. Children may have the same access to public transportation as anyone else, but it is not as safe for them.

Sherri - posted on 08/27/2011

But children are afforded equal access on all public transportation so I don't get your point. Children are equally as safe on public transportation as any other person is riding on it.

Angela - posted on 08/27/2011

@ It does not matter to me how your specific public transport works. Sherri what if where you lived they did not have the special bus? Can you look at this a bit bigger? All you have to do is read the post to realize public transport is different everywhere and certainly should not be judged solely on your own public transport.

So I will ask you again if there was not any wheelchair lift on any buses would you tell that person you have the same access as me? Are saying it is good enough for me so it is good enough for everyone?

Dyan brought up Americans with disabilities act mandated in the USA. It simply was not good enough to expect states and cities etc. to guarantee equal access, So the made a few laws. We don't have such law for children on public transport. We do not have equal safe access for them but if we saw to their needs as we did the handicapped for example I think it would solve a lot of issues for everyone on all sides of the debate.

This could be done in numerous ways, the key is access, not to matter if it is a bus you call, seats with special straps etc etc...

Sherri - posted on 08/26/2011

They do Dyan you just have a call for a separate van and it is still considered public transportation. If you have passengers with you they can also go with you in the van. It still follows bus route and still costs the same as the buses.

Becky - posted on 08/26/2011

Seats that face each other, rather than all facing the front of the bus - like subway seats - would be safer for children, if the children were in the seats that faced the rear of the bus. There would also be the option of doing built-in carseats like they did in some vehicles a few years ago. Atlhough that would be a huge undertaking, and I think they stopped doing those in vehicles, maybe because they weren't as safe? (not sure why) Or they could provide some sort of tether system either for carseats or just a tether like you bring on an airplane. At any rate, a young child, or a mother with an infant or toddler, is definitely safer sitting than standing and should have priority for seats on public transportation. Not over seniors or physically handicappe people, and not necessarily at the front of the bus, but over other able-bodied people who are able to stand and hold onto the safety rails. I said it in an earlier post, although in this particular case, yes, the mothers were not courteous, my guess would be that the majority of time, it is not the mothers with young children who are lacking in courtesy - they should have a seat! It is those who are perfectly able to stand up for 15 minutes and give someone who needs it more their seat, and do not, who are lacking in courtesy.

Rosie - posted on 08/26/2011

isn't it illegal for public transportation to not provide handicap access? americans with disabilities act says it is anyway.

Sherri - posted on 08/26/2011

@Angela
You stated Children were given the same access as me... what was you point? Is that really good enough? Would you say that to a wheel chair bound person who tried to get on a bus with out a wheel chair lift?

Yes I think it is very much enough and FYI our buses are NOT wheelchair accessible if you choose public transportation and handicapped you have to call a special van that will come pick you up at your location and still costs the same as the regular buses and follows the same bus route.

Angela - posted on 08/26/2011

I am not avoiding it, I said it before I say it again, the fact is that if we could come up with solutions for the handicapped, we can come up with solutions for children. I am sure their is seats or space that could be used to do so. Are you asking me to be an engineer and design this? Is that what you want Sherri?

I know that it could be done, but I am not an engineer nor should I have to be one and give you a specific design to make my point. Which is children are a members of society it seems that they are not given equal access to safe public transport and their is not any mandate to do so. In additon a lot of people have problems with this lack of access and parents have to figure out what is safest for them with out knowing if it is safe. This leads to debates like stroller wars. All could be avoided if we just gave access to children. Every argument against doing so are the same arguments they had when they tried to give the handicapped equal access. I am glad that over all despite those against it, it was granted to most handicapped in the western world.

You stated Children were given the same access as me... what was you point? Is that really good enough? Would you say that to a wheel chair bound person who tried to get on a bus with out a wheel chair lift? It is not equal at all, the needs are much different. Can you address this?

Sherri - posted on 08/25/2011

What I am asking which you keep avoiding is what is it that will keep children safe OTHER than using strollers as strollers on buses is not always practical or safe.

Angela - posted on 08/25/2011

Their are viable options we did it for the handicap why not kids? Would it take time and work sure but it is an option that is definitely viable! But people have to want to do it and pay the taxes etc. i just want to add it took years to get hanicap access for people and to give them legal rights...it would not be an overnight thing but you have to start it for it to happen and people need to agree with it.

Sherri - posted on 08/25/2011

But what you haven't done Angela is offer a better viable option is all I am saying.

Angela - posted on 08/25/2011

"They aren't treating children any differently then you Angela."

I completely disagree with what you try to convey with that statement. We do not have equal needs anymore than a handicap person has more needs than I . We are not equal body mass. I am of height and weight to sit comfortable in a seat. I have the strength to hold onto something when the bus breaks suddenly or turns hard or hits a big bump. Better put i am not a child I am an adult. Children are not the same as adults.

I do what I can, I support it all I can to advocate for children. I really do not see why it was not acceptable to offer safe wheelchair handicap access and it is acceptable to not offer this for children.

I do all i can to advocate for children, so yes I DO something.

Tanya - posted on 08/25/2011

Hannah, I don't know what kind of carrier you're picturing, but I used front carriers on the bus, so in order for someone to push my child, they would have to be pushing ME. Isn't it a lot easier to trip over a stroller wheel?

I guess because there are strollers everywhere, people just figure they are easier, but to me, they are cumbersome and awkward, and take up SO much space! Every time I'm at a family event, I notice how much space is wasted by strollers. On the bus, it's even more noticeable!

Hannah - posted on 08/25/2011

I have an SUV stroller which I used for my son until he was about 8 months old and then I bought a five point harness umbrella stroller. It's not as small as the cheap ones but its certainly close. Id feel much safer having him in that than say having to fold it up and have to worry about my son not being able to hold or sit down or whatever. If one person feels its a better option to leave them in the stroller so be it and if not that cool too. I just dont think it would be safe for him to be out of his stroller. And I wouldnt be comfortable having him in a carrier. Buses get crowded and people push their way through. Like someone mentioned before backpacks are so obnoxious and protrude so much that I can imagine if you were on a bus and you had to get off the bus I would be worried that my child would get pushed or whatever. At least with a stoller people can see it.

Hannah - posted on 08/25/2011

I live in Ottawa and can clarify some things about riding with strollers. There are a maximum of 2 stollers allowed(I believe) and the front seats must be folded up in order to allow for more room. And if my memory serves me correctly they do have belts but Ive never seen anyone with strollers use them and only once or twice have seen a passenger who used a wheel chair use the safety belt. People just use their brakes on whatever device they have.

Sherri - posted on 08/25/2011

Exactly thank you Tanya, thank you that was exactly my point.

They aren't treating children any differently then you Angela. So maybe if you feel so strongly you need to go and fight to have something done to include seatbelts etc.

Angela - posted on 08/25/2011

Tanya it depends of the age of a child, if a seat is available, how many children you are transporting etc. I don't think the answer is a simple as a carrier. I think a better answer is safe seating for children, not just babies.

Tanya - posted on 08/25/2011

I fail to see how being in a stroller is safer than being snuggled in with mom. I felt my son was MUCH safer in his secure carrier! I had both of my hands free to grab on to my older son and the bus if anything happened. If he'd been in a stroller, I would have had to choose between holding on to the stroller, or holding on to the bus. My older son would have been on his own! Trying to hold a stroller with one hand would be futile, and the stroller becomes a projectile!


Now, if the stroller was actually strapped into the bus, I guess it would be safer, but most strollers only have a 3-point harness, and they aren't very tight. Plus there's nothing to stop them from getting severe whiplash. When they are in a carrier, how much their body and head are going to move is a lot more restricted.

Angela - posted on 08/25/2011

See if you just go by your great experience and judge everything else by it than you are not seeing the big picture. The fact is all the public should be afforded safe comfortable transport. If the seats are limited so be it, if it cost a bit extra so be it. Any argument against children having safe public transport is just as equal as stating we need not have wheel chair or handicap access to public transport. One is not more important per say but one side is neglected and that is children! It does not matter if in your town, you area they have great safe public transport for your child. What matters is it is not accessible to all children and their is not any laws to enforce the rights to a child who is an integral part of society. To put them last is not excusable in my book. To not have any type of regulation except for what to do with your darn stroller says a lot of what we think of our children in society.

Jacquie - posted on 08/24/2011

Im sorry but children to me are more important and being in a stroller is alittle bit more safe because the child would be buckled in and the mother would be holding onto the stroller and big strollers cant be easily tipped over and i was on the bus today and the bus driver kept slamming on his brakes and the child flew off his seat and i wouldve been furious if that happened to my child and the bus driver didnt even appologize he was just plain rude about it.....Also seniors can find other ways to get around too...I know that people should always be nice and have respect for one and other but children are number 1 on my list

Hannah - posted on 08/24/2011

But cabbie would get a good tip, hopefully ;)

Hannah - posted on 08/24/2011

I am a mom who takes the bus when I need to with my son in his umbrella stroller who is 16 months old. Mostly I walk but when I need to I dont hesitate to take the bus. I believe what it comes to down to is respect. Before becoming a mom I would see alot of people who just ingore the elderly and the moms with the strollers. Like you can sit somewhere else right? I dont have to move? Ok Awesome! I think this is where it drives me bonkers. Each person who rides the bus should be equally courtious to look out for other people. But its not like that always. Sad, sad, sad :(

As for folding up the strollers, I think it can be a bit unrealistic in some instances. With an infant, you shouldnt be expected to fold up your stroller and juggle holding the diaper bag while you are hanging onto your baby for dear life. Not safe. And then you have to load off the bus while trying to dart to the front of the bus(while carrying your baby and diaper bag and then get the stroller) before you miss your stop while people are piling in completly in their own world, oblivious to their surrounds. And then its like oh I didnt see you, Sorry! With a toddler, umbrella strollers are great because they are so small and compact but if a parent is alone and again other passengers are rude and inconsiderate it can be a little hard to expect someone to fold up an umbrella stroller. If you've ever been on a bus enough you know that people are in their own little world and some(but not all)just arent that nice. And then you have to think about the crowds that rush in at the front of the bus, who are on even before you can get to the front when people wont even move or dont see you because they arent paying attention.

Giving moms who ride the bus with strollers a hard time is not going to solve anything. It will just piss us off more. Moms with strollers are just as entitled to ride the bus as someone in a wheel chair. And its not because we feel we are more entitled than someone in a wheel chair. We are equal. Without strollers we wouldnt be able to do half the things we can do(with all the stuff we carry, or go about our normal life and shop for groceries or whatever).

I was thinking how some people think and say that moms with strollers should find another mode of transportation with a baby. But I think of it this way. You are a mom who needs to get groceries and you are not able to take a bus so let say you get a taxi. So factor in installing car seat. You get to the grocery store, pay the cabbie, unistall the carseat, find a cart and drag the car seat with you put the baby, goodness knows where(if they are still in the stroller car seat) then you grocery shop and repeat. Can you imagine, Lol.....Not happening!

LadyJane - posted on 08/24/2011

Just because a Senior doesn't have a walker or a wheelchair doesn't mean they can walk down the aisle to another seat, especially if that bus is in motion. My mom is one of those, yet because her doctor has determined she can walk at least 150 paces she doesn't qualify for a walker or wheelchair, even though she has extreme difficulty in walking even just to the end of a short driveway.

Some, NOT all of our buses do come equipped with wheelchair lifts for those who need those, but there is a limit as to how many wheelchairs can be on a bus at one time. Even the walker some seniors use have to be folded.

Regarding strollers, if the mom is unable to fold their stroller, the driver is more than willing to assist with that, but they do require the strollers folded during peak bus hours. If the stroller cannot be folded, only 2 of those are allowed on the bus at one time to accomodate other passengers. Seniors and the disabled are both given priority especially when its a full bus. No exceptions.

In some cases those with unfolded strollers may be requested to stand should the need arises when the bus is full so that the seniors and disabled can have priorty.

I have yet to be on the bus where there were any issues of anyone not being able to sit comfortably, or where anyone refused to give up a seat to a senior or a disabled person.

I don't really see what the fuss is all about it. Even when I rode the bus during a peak period and had to stand myself, everyone always stood up for a senior or disabled even if that seat was not the designated seat at the front of the bus.

Sherri - posted on 08/24/2011

Being buckled in a stroller Jacquie on bus is no safer in an accident then holding your child in an accident on the bus. Also seniors should NOT be ousted because they are seniors that is no more fair or safe then ousting a child because they are a child.

Angela - posted on 08/24/2011

or as we did for the handicap we make safe transport for children

Jacquie - posted on 08/24/2011

Well if some peoples transportation is only bus then they expect to have the safest way being on it and the safest place for a baby is to be buckled in its stroller and to be facing the parent....and like i said before there are HandiDart buses just for seniors

Angela - posted on 08/24/2011

My point exactly ... safe mode of transport for children... I don't like any of my options because they all stink

Sherri - posted on 08/24/2011

It won't be any safer in a stroller or a sling if your point is if the bus gets in an accident. So your argument on that one doesn't really hold any water Angela. It is also illegal not have your baby in a carseat and yourself seatbelted in a car. Trying to see your point??

Angela - posted on 08/24/2011

Well as I said my child hated the sling and I tried all kinds... and as stated holding a child in your lap is hardly safe. It is illegal in a car because it is not safe...

Tanya - posted on 08/23/2011

My 15-month-old is 29 lbs. (and has been since he was 13 months). He fits easily in my ring sling and mei tai, and I'm going to try out a Boba as soon as it gets here! I'm not small, but I previously carried my oldest until he was 45 lbs. and about 46" tall!

Sherri - posted on 08/23/2011

Even if you are small angela you still should be able to safely hold onto your child. I am small too and my 1yr olds where 27lbs. I held them and carried them safely always.

Angela - posted on 08/23/2011

"What happened if someone was holding their baby and the bus driver slammed on their brakes and something happened cuz those bus drivers can be careless "

EXACTLY, thus why they should provide space for children that is safe. They did it for wheel chair bound people, (which rarely use it) so why not children?



What if you have a larger child age 12 months and you are small like me you can't put them in a wrap, also not all children like the wraps, like my Claire. She hated it.

Jacquie - posted on 08/22/2011

Seniors should take the HandiDart Bus...Sometimes strollers can be stressful folding them then unfolding them if your by yourself besides seniors already lived their lives be nice to mothers with babies they ARE only babies. What happened if someone was holding their baby and the bus driver slammed on their brakes and something happened cuz those bus drivers can be careless they only want to get to their destination doesnt matter how they drive...I dont hate seniors but if they dont have a wheel chair or walker they can sit somewhere else