Teaching first-graders about gay love and fith-graders about SEX!!!!

Mylene - posted on 08/01/2010

I have no issues with this. I think kids need to learn that oral sex and anal sex are still SEX. I have heard young girls (around 14) saying that they never had sex they just gave the guy a blowjob... wtf? I think that kids should be aware of STD (STI or whatever the right term is now)... Oral sex can transmit A LOT of things. Herpes doesn't go away, neither does AIDS...

I am all for this program. Parents should be teaching the bulk of it but I think it should also be in school.

Stifler's - posted on 08/01/2010

I think it's great. At least the younger generation will be educated and make informed decisions instead of turning into the ignorant fools of my generation.

Amie - posted on 07/22/2010

Ava,

As has been explained a few times on this thread.
No one is teaching what couples actually do in their bedrooms or anything sexual in Grade one.
Fifth grade is pubescent age nowadays. There are few in my daughters class who are not in the full swing of puberty and she's just entering grade 5.

Preparing children with factual information is not enticing them.

Lindsay - posted on 07/22/2010

Since when is knowing that proper name for body parts sexual? or learning about family dinamics? It becomes sexualized when over protective parents jump to the conclusion that a child learns the word penis or vagina that they are going to immediately fall down and spread them....geezus!

Isobel - posted on 07/22/2010

Sorry Emilie, you misread the course info...it teaches first-graders about same-gender relationships, fifth-graders that sexual intercourse includes "vaginal, oral, or anal penetration," and high school students about erotic art. The curriculum would also teach kindergartners anatomical terms such as penis, vagina, breast, nipples, testicles, scrotum and uterus.

No morals, no erotic art for children, no kama sutra (well...maybe that counts as the art for highschoolers, I don't know)...everybody keeps adding their own stuff to this and it's really quite simple...kids should know the truth. period.

Emilie - posted on 07/22/2010

I would not want my kids school to teach this. Maybe the correct terms for the body parts and maybe even the art (but only as an elective, but I don't want my child to learn about sex postions in 5th grade. I am already going through enough with my kids being exposed to sexual behavior at their fathers house, they don't need to hear about it at school too.

Lindsay - posted on 07/22/2010

We have already touched on this relationship talk with my kids and honestly, I was glad the topic came up while they were very young and not judgemental. For those of you that don't already know, my kids are 5 and 3(for a few more weeks anyhow). They were in preschool and had both formed some close friendships with kids in their class. When they had their Christmas program, one of Madeline's best little friends ran over to have her daddies meet Madeline and Josh and I. When we got home that evening, it was the perfect opportunity to discuss different family dinamics. They know that while they have a mommy and daddy that some kids have two mommies, two daddies, only a mommy or only a daddy, live with grandparents, have step parents, are adopted, and so on and so on. They know that families come in all different shapes and sizes but they are all families and they are all special in their own way.

I guess my point is that kids are going to be exposed to these different dinamics in life and probably from early on. Why not educate them on differences and create a generation more tolerant and less judging than the one before. I was raised in a Catholic household and what I learned from my Christian upbringing was to treat people kindly and not to judge. It's not my place. Learning about gay relationships isn't going to turn people gay. I'm pretty sure that's already decided anyhow. It will hopefully cut down on judgements and hate stemming for ignorance and lack of understanding.

Krista - posted on 07/22/2010

Susanne, you might want to read my post again. I said that not ALL gay couples engage in anal sex. Some just don't like it. I just wanted to clear up a bit of a stereotype there.

And I agree with Kimberly. There is no inherent morality lesson involved in teaching the facts. If I say, "Most times, men and women love each other. But sometimes, men love other men, and women love other women," can you say whether I am approving or condemning of that? No, you cannot. It is simply a statement of fact that homosexuality exists.

In my experience, a lot of people who are against homosexuality are not content to say to their kids, "This is what being gay is. I do not think that it is a good thing, and this is why." A lot of people just don't even want to HAVE to have that conversation. They would rather that their children not even know that gay people exist in the first place. I guess I just don't understand how a morality lesson can come out of keeping your kid deliberately ignorant. What are you teaching them at that point? Nothing.

Christa - posted on 07/22/2010

Kimberly, I never made any assusmptions about your age so. . . And I've already said I'm not getting into the gay thing because people, like yourself, get way too wound up. I've been there done that many times and I won't do it again. Assume whatever you want about me, I do not care. I won't comment to you again. . .

Susanne - posted on 07/22/2010

Gay people dont have anal sex do they Krista? Wow so basically their just room mates then? Damn wish someone had told me earlier then i wouldnt have bothered posting im not bothered about them teaching my sons about having room mates lol.

Kimberly - posted on 07/21/2010

also, i find it incredibly rude of you to make assumptions about my age simple because you don't like the questions i asked you. i'm not being hostile towards you, and your hostility towards me makes me think you feel uncomfortable when someone asks a question that forces you to think about your beliefs and why you have them.

Jodi - posted on 07/21/2010

You know, straight couples have anal sex too......I don't think anal sex should specifically be boxed into a gay sex thing. So by having a curriculum which says they want to teach about different types of "love" (as opposed to sex) and different types of families, and ALSO to teach about anal sex in addition to traditional types of sex, I don't see that the automatic conclusion should be that they are going to teach children how gay people have sex!!! It is important that people realise that anal and oral sex still transmits diseases, it has nothing to do with being gay.

Kimberly - posted on 07/21/2010

you don't care for my tone? lol, thanks mom. i've been around long enough to tell bs and avoidance when i read it. i'm not the one with an attitude. i asked you a reasonable question, without any attitude, which you refused to answer.

i agreed with you that it is the parents job, not the schools' to teach morals. i also pointed out that teaching kids the facts is not the same as teaching them what is right and wrong. i gave some examples of what the modification would do, and pointed out that it is only dealing with facts, not morals or religious instruction.

i read through every comment on this thread before i posted anything, and the person i read the most attitude from was you. i told you what your comments implied to me and asked you to correct me if i was wrong in my assumption. since you have refused to do so i can only infer that my assumption was correct. btw, telling someone their panties are in a bunch reeks of attitude in and of itself. you were the one who said that homosexuality is wrong and not accepted or approved of or whatever in your home. by extension that means if your children were gay you would not accept them for who they are, even though being gay wouldn't change whether or not they were good people who were kind and treated others with respect. i'm not trying to fight with you, i'm trying to understand where you're coming from. this is a discussion/debate board, after all.

Christa - posted on 07/21/2010

Kimberly I don't know you and I really don't care for your tone. When you've been around here a bit longer perhaps you will learn to discuss things with less attitude. Until then . . . .

Kimberly - posted on 07/21/2010

my panties aren't bunched christa. you kept stating in your posts that its parents job to teach morals. it is, the schools job is to teach FACTS. gay people exist. FACT. people have sex. FACT. anal and oral sex are still sex. FACT. that's all these modifications to the curriculum will say. they won't tell kids what's right and wrong, just what is. and from the comments you've made on this thread, yes your kids will be just fine. as long as none of them are gay. the only reason i would worry about your kids would be in that instance, because your comments imply that if they were gay you would more or less disown them. if that's not true, feel free to correct me.

telling your kid that its ok to be who you are only if mommy approves is kinda cruel in my opinion. do you believe people choose their sexuality, christa? if so, when did you choose to be straight?

Amie - posted on 07/21/2010

I'm still confused about the morals issue over here. I'm teaching my children that abstinence is the only way to fully prevent pregnancy and STD's. Not so much waiting until marriage (this is going to be the sticking issue I know it) but until they've found someone they love, who respects them and loves them back. Who's proven their worthiness.



The reason marriage is not a big deal to me though is that so many couples choose not to get married and go on to live happy, committed lives to each other. While I am married, I feel no different, we are no different, if we had never gotten married we'd still be trucking along fine. We love each other, that's what matters.



BUT they don't teach this in the sex ed classes, they teach that abstinence is the ONLY way to fully prevent pregnancy and STD's; alongside this there are the many contraceptives which can be used if you do choose to have sex to lower the risk. The rest is left up to the parents. Which is where all the snit is coming from when it really doesn't need to be. Well that is up here at least, I can't speak for how other areas handle it. It's always been my experience though that sex ed classes are handled this way. You give the children the information and then their parents answer the other questions, the "moral" questions and expand on anything their kids may want to know. Not all kids are comfortable asking in front of the class, even the younger ones when it's split into boys and girls only classes for sex ed.

Hannah - posted on 07/21/2010

I think that this is a great idea. Like I said before in another thread, I was flat out lucky that I wasn't a teen mom. I had one steady BF in high school but we weren't always careful and my mom was so against birth control. I was so scared to go to her with anything. I think those moms are the ones who end up with pregnant teens more often than not. The daughters/sons are terrified of their parents reaction and nobody is teaching them. Denial only creates more problems.

Isobel - posted on 07/21/2010

I had to have the puberty part of the talk with my daughter the other day, she's only 9 but she already has stinky armipits and pimples on her nose...I honestly wanna cry (I know that's a little off topic but Suzanne made me think of it) 9 is just too young to go through puberty...ugh

Christa - posted on 07/21/2010

@Kimberly, I've already said if it was just to introduce different family structures then I'm ok with that. Unbunch your panties.

And don't you worry about my kids, they will be just fine.

Krista - posted on 07/21/2010

Actually, not all gay couples engage in anal sex, just as an FYI.

Susanne - posted on 07/21/2010

My oldest son is eleven, nearly twelve does he need to know that Elton John sticks it up his lovers butt? NO he doesnt, he does know that Elton John prefers men to women though. I see no reason to take that conversation any further with him. My son has no problem discussing sex or his body with me, he recently had the sex ed class in school and said they didnt teach him anything i hadnt already told him anyway except that hes going to get pimples. Damn there was me concentrating on pubic hair and stds and i forgot to tell him hes likely to get zits. If my son was gay i can guarantee he would come to talk to me about it as he as with other issues that he has been curious about in the past.

Kimberly - posted on 07/21/2010

christa-

what is it with people who think that talking about 2 parent, single parent, and grandparent headed households is just about the people, but same sex households automatically becomes about what kind of sex they have? no one is talking about sharing details about how couples have sex, gay or straight. just acknowledging that there are households with one mom, one dad, a mom and a dad, grandparents, or two moms and two dads. IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT KIND OF SEX THEY HAVE. SIMPLY THAT THEY EXIST. PERIOD. thank you, hope that clears up confusion

Kimberly - posted on 07/21/2010

"no i dont want my sons knowing about gay sex either. I really dont see why any child needs to know about that unless they are gay themselves."

if that's where we're going with this, why should gay children need to know about straight sex?

Kimberly - posted on 07/21/2010

christa-

you say sex ed should be about the biology of it, well homosexuality is a biological thing, just like heterosexuality. its not a choice, its not something one can control. if you really think its a choice, that implies that everyone at some point chooses to be straight if they choose to be gay. that at some point they compare the two and decide which they'd rather be. sorry honey, it doesn't work like that. if it did i'm pretty sure there'd be a lot fewer gay people, because there are a lot of gay people out there who would change it if they could because being straight would be easier.

Kimberly - posted on 07/21/2010

teresa-



you say you teach your kids love and acceptance of all people but not all behaviors. here is a question for your: do heterosexual people boil down to their behavior and what they do with the object of their affection in bed or is there more to it than that? the same is true of homosexual people. sex is a behavior, but one that is core to the human condition, as core as eating or breathing. it is core to all people, gay, straight, bisexual, etc.



humans are sexual creatures. period. we are able to exert more control than, say a dog, over when and with whom we have sex, but we still feel sexual feelings beginning at a very young age. any child development textbook or research will tell you that children first touch themselves to bring themselves pleasure VERY young. as babies, even. denying that we humans are sexual creatures is terribly irresponsible, because denial won't put the hormones back in the box, so to speak.

Kimberly - posted on 07/21/2010

christa, if one of your kids happens to be gay think of the number you're doing on them. growing up with mommy, for all intents and purposes, telling you that you are worth less because of something you have no control over, that there is something wrong with them for something they can't change. i hope none of your kids are gay. because if they are, they'll end up resenting the hell outta you.

Kimberly - posted on 07/20/2010

it seems to me that teaching about the different ways ppl have sex is more about teaching them that just because it isn't penis-vagina sex doesn't mean its not sex. tweens and teens these days are doing anal and oral because they think it doesn't count, some cuz they're, by traditional definitions, still virgins. you'd be surprised by how many 5th graders are experimenting with some kinds of sexual stuff. if they're gonna do it, they shouldn't being going in blind, so to speak. uninformed ppl (which include all school children) make uninformed decisions.

we are really uptight about sex in america, but in european countries with more liberal, less prudish views about sex they wait longer to have first intercourse, and are more responsible when they do have sex. just something to think about.

Jaime - posted on 07/20/2010

I'm inclined to think that it's the threat of a secular agenda that's got some people bothered by this proposed curriculum. Save for privately-funded schools based in religious teachings, education IS a secular agenda...and sex-ed is no exception.

Amanda - posted on 07/20/2010

No problem to me, i teach my children all that information before school as they are exposed to all sorts of family life, in their own lives.

Krista - posted on 07/20/2010

Yeah, I don't really get how someone an interpret a moral position out of relaying the fact that homosexual couples exist. If you're not saying that they're good or bad, just that they ARE, then how can that be considered as pushing an agenda?

Christa - posted on 07/20/2010

Ok you edited your post since I made my initial comments. . . . I'm not going to comment on your new post. You know my position on the gay issue we don't need to go there again . .

Isobel - posted on 07/20/2010

wow you're quick Christa...I changed my answer as soon as I posted it :)

Christa - posted on 07/20/2010

Maybe then you will quit stalking me ;-P

Christa - posted on 07/20/2010

The only reason I said something was because you wanted me to. ;-)

Isobel - posted on 07/20/2010

what personal attack? That it's your right to tell your children that their parents are going to burn? That's been your position through this entire thread. Nobody else can tell your kid that it's OK...cause you want to tell them that it's a sin. For living in sin, surely they will burn...no?

Christa - posted on 07/20/2010

@Jaime We are going to have to agree to disagree since we seem to be going in circles.

Laura, I'm going to ignore your personal attack on me . . .

Jaime - posted on 07/20/2010

Parents can't teach and introduce aspects of sexuality that they are not fully informed about...that is the whole point of comprehensive sexual education. The world is evolving, we're becoming more aware of our strengths and our limitations as more opportunities are afforded through technological expansion and economic/social growth. Change is inevitable...and decidedly a breath of fresh air from the traditional ideas about life.

Isobel - posted on 07/20/2010

If you want to tell your kid that their friends' parents are going to burn in hell for loving each other, that is entirely your right!



It's sad...but it's your right.

Isobel - posted on 07/20/2010

"Parents appeared most worried about pieces of the plan that teaches first-graders about same-gender relationships, fifth-graders that sexual intercourse includes "vaginal, oral, or anal penetration," and high school students about erotic art. The curriculum would also teach kindergartners anatomical terms such as penis, vagina, breast, nipples, testicles, scrotum and uterus.

"They made this more controversial by adding in all this stuff like same-gender relationships to small children, teaching body parts to kindergartners, and teaching erotic art to ninth through 12th-graders," Mikal Wilkerson, who has five children in the school system and a husband who sits on the school board, said Wednesday in an interview. "They even teach about anxiety about sexual performance in high school."

Supporters say the proposed health education curriculum contains honest, science-based information on wellness and allows students to make better decisions. At Tuesday's meeting they urged the board to accept the policy."
..........................................................................

I see nothing about morality...morality is all yours. What I see is telling children that Same-sex families exist. period. god forbid your children should know the truth.

ps...I don't want any kid getting an STD at 15 from some other kid whose mothers didn't think it was appropriate to talk about condoms and blowjobs till their child was 16. Oh wait, some of you think they should figure out blowjobs and anal for themselves...awesome! I hope when your daughter is rendered infertile (because many STDs are symptomless in females and left untreated cause PID) that you can take solace in the fact that the school did not take your place in providing basic, scientific knowledge.

Christa - posted on 07/20/2010

I disagree. What you said would be true if we were talking of adults. But we are not, we are talking about very young children. What information you think is appropriate for certain ages and what I do are obviously different. And that is directly related to our ideas on sexual morality. That is why it needs to be left to the parents to introduce certain aspects when they deem it to be the right time.

Jaime - posted on 07/20/2010

"I will teach them the morals about sex that I think they should have." This is precisely the problem Christa.



You will teach them what you want them to learn and nothing beyond that. Comprehensive sexual education does not have a bias, it's information...it's not liberal information, it's not conservative information, it's not Christian information, Muslim information, Buddhist information, Hari Krishna information, Atheist information...it's just simply information. Sexual health is important to everyone...regardless of what colour your skin is or what God you worship or what sexual orientation you are...and this information is available to help protect our kids against shitty diseases and unwanted pregnancies...as well there is a wealth of knowledge about how enjoyable it is meant to be when a person engages responsibly. There is no destruction in social morality when information is free to be given and received...the destruction of morality is in the notion that it is the right of one person to decide for another person what morals they will live by.



If the teachers are going to impose their personal bias on the sexual health curriculum, then it is up to the school to remedy that and be sure that their staff is fully supportive of every student's right to have comprehensive sexual education...it's no different than the rest of the subjects they teach, it's just a bit more graphic.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 07/20/2010

that was what i posted like 50 postings ago

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 07/20/2010

I, for one don’t feel that its wrong that they want to teach kids and pre-teens this, but I do think they should have it as a choice…..just how they send home permission slips for field trips…..the parents decided if they go or not. Its obvious some parents don’t mind this, agree with it, Strongly disagree, or could care less…..but I defiantly think there should be a choice if your child learns this in a school setting or anywhere but home!

Christa - posted on 07/20/2010

I agree with you. But I feel when it comes to the morality of sex THAT knowledge should be left to the parents. I will teach them the morals about sex that I think they should have. I don't want some teacher pushing her values about the subject on my child. Just as I'm sure you all don't either. You wouldn't want your child’s teacher who happens to be a Christian putting her own bias into their education, would you? Why is it so hard to see the other side? Leave it to the biology, which is what it is and leave all the other details to the parents. That keeps any biases out of it. That is why I called it liberal, despite some snide comments suggesting otherwise, because it's the liberal way of thinking that they need to force themselves and their values on the population. People are too stupid to figure it out on their own is the liberal mantra. Where as conservatives may not agree but they are your kids and as the parents you have the right to raise your kids as you like.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 07/20/2010

@JAIME
I agree with you 110%
there are mothers that truly believe they KNOW what there child will do and not do. In reality all you can do is arm your child with knowledge and hope they apply it how you taught them too…to seriously think your child will or will not get pregnant early or have sex before marriage or fall in love with the same sex.. is not realistic at all. At the end of they day they are people and will come to have there own views and beliefs that may not be the same as yours…
My father all but said he would kill me if I had sex before I was married…I did anyway because I wanted to….there it is there. Or (this is off the subject of sex, but..) kids are told not to do drugs (Like Weed)…and then they do it(weather or not they have a good up bringing) I choose not to because I did not want to…it had nothing to do with my parents saying its bad and tv saying its wrong…I thought for myself…so….
Like I said you can only arm your child with the knowledge and hope that they listen or make the “right” choice.

Jaime - posted on 07/20/2010

Not one of us on this thread knows for certain that our children will not be sexually active in high school or even before that. Nor do we know if our children will contract an STD or fall pregnant--we don't know, and because we don't know we need our children to be fully informed so that they can be fully prepared to accept the consequences of their actions and decisions.

Amie - posted on 07/20/2010

No one said you want sex ed removed. That is your assumption.

We want a better more comprehensive sex ed class. Which is something all children deserve, especially if their parents are not willing to give it to them.



This is not a political agenda but then in the states, almost everything seems to be spun into a political agenda. This is not about liberals. If knowledge is power and the way liberals think, what does that make conservatives? /:) The ones with their heads in the sand?



Something needs to be done, especially in the states. I'll need to find the stats later after shopping but during at time when a lot of countries teen pregnancy stats are falling because of better sex education, americans teen pregnancies are not. Could it be because they don't have the education they need to make fully informed decisions? I would think so, it's not that great a leap to figure it out.



Here is one link I found with a quick search. It's not the one I wanted because it's just an article but I'll look when I get home.



http://www.livestrong.com/article/12504-...

Christa - posted on 07/20/2010

Somewhere you all have assumed I want sex ed removed. I don't. I just don't want to see the liberal morals and ideas forced onto my children. Keep it to the biology and leave the rest to the parents. I'm not sure why that's got all of you all wound up.

@Krista, How your mom approached it is right on. I do not agree with people who preach the abstinence message without acknowledging that some will not wait until marriage. However it is not our place to decide how a parent teaches their child about the morals of sex.

That is my problem with this whole thing, when you go beyond the basics you open the door to bias and moral leanings. Stick to the basics and leave the rest to parents.

To those who feel I "personally attacked" you with my comments, get over it. I merely said my method of parenting won't result in my daughters ending up pregnant or with STD's, perhaps another method will. If you took that personally it's on you. I do find it ironic and hypocritical that I was told point blank that my parenting will result in my children bullying and because my kids are so young I don't know what I'm talking about, but no one jumped on that as a personal attack. I guess some things never change. . .

Cathy - posted on 07/20/2010

Educating your child on the implications of sex both physical or emotional does not mean 'allowing your children to run wild with no morals'.
The teens who are going to end up pregnant are the ones who learn about sex but have no confidence to discuss the issue with their parents because it's treated as taboo.
My earlier point was that if my kids are going to be taught something then as a parent I need to know exactly what. I need to know what my child has taken from that lesson and fill in the gaps and cover all the moral standpoints. You can educate on the mechanics of sex as well as encourage morals and celibacy. It's not an all or nothing scenario.

ME - posted on 07/20/2010

Here's another anecdote: Out in CO. I taught high school English at a small private school. My second year in the school we had 40 students, about 15 of those were female students and 6 of them were pregnant. One monday morning all the students were in a snit, and some were fighting with one another...through the day it came out that there'd been a party with lots of alcohol, and one of the Freshman students (a girl) had had sexual intercourse with EVERY boy at the party (the exact number was outrageous, somewhere in the 20's). She got drunk, and I'm sure you can figure out the rest. They should have known the results of having sex (as 6 of their fellow students were pregnant), but they apparently didn't care...There was no sex education in the high school, but I don't know about middle school, etc. The parents of my students were mostly undereducated immigrants, and most of them were Catholic. I'm not saying I know in every case that they were given no information, but coming from an Irish Catholic family myself, I would not be surprised.

Information, imho, is not something that needs to be given a value judgment, and particularly NOT a negative value judgment. Having information makes it easier to make informed critical decisions, and that's it. Information is not moral or immoral, it's just information. Each of us can tell our children what ever we believe is appropriate to do with the information they get, but not giving it to them is simply asking for trouble!