The Duggars- Looney or Exemplary Parents?

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Minnie - posted on 09/30/2011

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People often laud them for being able to support their family without government assistance. Do any of you think they would be able to if they weren't paid by TLC and given free handouts constantly?



The problem is that they idealize the quiver-full movement. There are SOOO many other families with umpteen children- I was immersed in this movement for five years- and they don't have TLC to pave their way. So they end up living in teeny tiny apartments and really struggling. They also give a quarter of their income to the church and half the time don't know where the money will come for bills.



And being so involved in this movement in the past I know for a fact that children don't get much time with their parents. Older children are ALWAYS used as free babysitters.

Kylie - posted on 10/04/2011

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I did a unit in developmental psych last term and i learned some things about teenager behaviour i didn't know before. Like how it is extremely important for teenagers to have freedom of expression, to try out new things and find out who they are. It's very healthy for teenagers to act one way with parents and another way with friends to try out different roles and sides to their personality. Those years are so important for development of self esteem. Seems like a really fucked thing to teach kids that a perfect outward appearance and what the Jonse's think matters more than how you feel and who you are inside. Just another example of that mindset of i own you, so you represent me.

I let my son go out today with his face painted orange and blue and it was in his hair making it all knotty. He was adamant he didn't want a bath yet and he liked his face paint, so we walked to the shops and waved to a few neighbours on the way. Guess what, the world didn't end, child protection wasn't called, nobody who matters loves us any less. It doesn't make me a bad mum and if stranger thought that, so what. My son was happy, thats what mattered. Life is more fun when you let go a bit Sherri.

Jenny - posted on 10/01/2011

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I think they are breeding us right off of our planet. We can't handle large families anymore.

JL - posted on 10/01/2011

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The Quiverfull movement bothers me on so many levels. I find it disturbing and extremist. My disgust with the ideals pushed by that movement is why I view the Duggar's as noting but creepy and sad.



While they seem to be good parents I can't say that they are because of the ideals they support concerning women's rights and child punishment. I don't think of good parenting as teaching your daughter that the only options she has in life is taking care of siblings, getting married and having kids. I think of that as a failing your daughter.

Krista - posted on 11/09/2011

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It's her right to do so, but it doesn't stop me from thinking that she's clinically insane. To literally risk your life, and to risk leaving your children (including your special-needs baby!) motherless, just because you want one more baby to add to your collection?

I think it's selfish too.

Being an adult means sometimes realizing that what you WANT isn't necessarily what is BEST. And Michelle obviously hasn't gotten that memo. She wants a baby, so that's it. She doesn't give a shit if she dies and leaves her babies motherless and her family bereft. She's a selfish, brainwashed whackadoodle. And yeah, she has the right to pop out as many kids as she wants. And I have the right to think she's fucking nuts, and a terrible mother for doing so.

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Lana - posted on 03/26/2013

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IRRESPONSIBLE and looney!!! There is no way 2 parents could possibly keep up with 19+ children!!! Children need individualized attention daily. They can't possibly keep up with that many children and it pisses me off that people think can!

[deleted account]

Looney and irresponsible. ...especially with her offspring begetting even more.

I was looking at the interview where she said that overpopulation is a myth and that the entire world population could all fit into Jacksonville (FL or AK, who knows?) I'm sure all of you out there are really nice people, but personally I don't want to live quite that close. I think the first thing I’ll pack for our move to Jacksonville is some heavy armament to clear a little space for myself and line up some Duggars in my sights. [That’s a joke!]

I’d like to be politically correct and respect her religious beliefs, but I just don’t/can’t. After we all move to Jacksonville, perhaps we could all pitch in and build an ark for God’s animals so not all of them go extinct from all the humans wiping out resources/natural habitat.

Merry - posted on 12/23/2011

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I did too. I made fun of a toddler nursing with a friend when we saw it at the zoo, we said it was disgusting and gross and just wrong. I was nursing Eric at the time but he was little and I swore I'd NEVER go past a year. Well it just seemed so wrong to force him off at a year. He looked so much like the baby he always had been and that's about the time I started on circle of moms. I wanted to know if it was wrong to not wean him. I found many moms who felt just like me and then found tons of medical reasonings to continue past one year and all of a sudden it was so wonderful that I had the knowledge and support to back me up on my gut instinct that forcing him to wean just wasn't right.
I feel bad I judged women before, it was out of sheer ignorance on my part and I try to remember that whenever I get judged here or in person that usually, even if you don't agree, if you understand the other persons reasonings you won't be cruel to them.
I can't say I actually understand your reasonings to stop at 6 months but I figure 6 months is really a great goal and if you don't feel ok with continuing after that then so be it.!

Sherri - posted on 12/23/2011

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In the beginning before I knew about extended breastfeeding I most certainly did. Before Com's I had never even heard of extended breastfeeding. So I quickly became educated and my opinion and judgments of others who did do it where changed. However, before that time I accidentally offended an awful lot of mom's because of my ignorance on the subject.

Merry - posted on 12/23/2011

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But Sherri you never made it sound like those of us who allow longer are gross. You at least don't act judgemental for. Breastfeeding longer.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 12/23/2011

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I just wish it got less interesting as they get older, Sherri. My 9 month old now has her 3rd tooth and she will wiggle while she nurses.

Sherri - posted on 12/22/2011

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I agree with LadyJane I have never and would never breastfeed longer than 6mo's either. I don't care others do but I certainly wouldn't.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 12/22/2011

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Laura, in Jane's defense it's not an unusual opinion for those who don't breastfeed. In the interest of debate, I'm going to start a thread on this topic.

Merry - posted on 12/22/2011

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Before this thread gets locked would you please explain what in the world would make it so bad in your opinion to breastfeed longer then 6 months? Do you think formula is healthier after then? Or do you think at 6 months babies start seeing your breasts as sexual objects?

Seriously. Your comment is very aggrevating.

Why don't you explain your unusual opinion?

Merry - posted on 12/22/2011

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Ladyjane that's just your uneducated opinion.
Women who breastfeed to 2 years are doing the exact perfect recommended amount.
As the American academy of family physicians quotes, 'weaning a child before two years puts the child at increased risk of illness.'
So that's why.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 12/22/2011

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Lady Jane that's your opinion and others may think your opinion on not daring to go past 6 month is strange. So what do you think about breast feeding moms who do breast feed past 6 months? My LO is 9 months and I intend to try and breast feed for at least up to 18 months depending on how long she wanst to go for.

Michelle has said that she dries up for some reason after 6 months. So feh

LadyJane - posted on 12/21/2011

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One comment I saw struck me strange. I've only breastfed my 2 kids for NO longer than 6 months. So what if the longest she breastfed was 9 months. I wouldn't even dare to breastfeed any of my kids for more than 1 year, much less go up to 9 months for that matter. I'd always stop at around 6 months at the latest.

Rosie - posted on 11/15/2011

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i'm nit picky i know lauralei, but i don't have to consciously choose to spend time with my babies. it comes just as naturally to me as it does to you, i am just not spending my time feeding them for most of the time. instead i would be holding, playing, comforting etc. i guess it's just the way it's worded, like we have to force ourselves to spend time with our babies when it comes just as naturally to me as it does to you...i'm just doing something other than feeding them when spending the time. :)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/15/2011

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I know this wouldn't happen given what I've heard about people who follow Pearl's discipline techniques. But I believe those parents should look into Islamic beliefs because Muslims believe that children are sinless until 12 or 13 years old. Nice idea eh?

Personally I believe that if you have your personal life out on TV for all to see then you pretty much opened yourself up to criticism and debate on the internet and that's no one's fault but your own.

Johanna - posted on 11/15/2011

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Thanks for the info and links! Wow is all I can say. I truly hope they do not follow this.
On topic, I have to agree with those who have said this last baby is irresponsible of them. If they believe God will only give them children they are meant to have, how is it then ok to accept medical care to "save" those children if he didn't mean for them to be here. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT believe that personally, I am just trying to understand the philosophical difference between birth control and other medical interventions...

Minnie - posted on 11/15/2011

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How does it feel to be in thier place. Its not right posting something like this about people you do not know.

Of course it's right. Surely they are not naive to the fact that their lifestyle will spark conversation when they display it on national television. It's a valid debatable topic, just like anything else.

Minnie - posted on 11/15/2011

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www.nogreaterjoy.org



That's Pearl's site.



The ideology is that physical punishment will lead to a respect of parental authority and when the child is old enough to make a decision for salvation the child will respect God's authority and do so.



To not spank is to potentially condemn one's children to hell.



The Pearls have no concept of the innocence of children or age appropriate behaviors. Children are seen as "estranged from the womb" and must be physically chastised into obedience. He instructs mothers to have a face sweet as honey with the determination of a drill sergeant- and to smile while one sits on one's child to beat him or her into submission until the child cries pitiful tears of submission. And to continue until that happens.



And that's why we now have the third death linked to this method of discipline.



But the Duggars don't follow Pearl, they follow Godthard.

Stifler's - posted on 11/14/2011

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Isn't that like spanking babies with a rod and all that and blanket training.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/14/2011

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Johanna, look up the book How to Train up a Child and you'll see why it's so bad.

Johanna - posted on 11/14/2011

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I have heard people referring to "The Pearl Method" of discipline. I tried looking it up and can only find links/ article talking about how bad it is but cannot find a definition or description. Anyone have a link or can tell me what this is?

Stifler's - posted on 11/14/2011

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I agree with that Laura also bottle fed babies have less feeds typically.

Merry - posted on 11/14/2011

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Dyan, I thought this was clear so I'll just re-post

""I'm sure bottle fed babies can bond just as well as breastfeed ones, but not if they never get time with their mom.

Time is key to bonding. And breastfeeding forces mom to spend lots of time with the baby. Bottle feeding moms have to make sure they are the primary feeders or something or else baby could bond with whoever feeds it most.""



I never said bottle fed babies -can't- bond like breastfeed ones I said bottle feeding makes it possible for mom and baby to be apart for many hours of the day if others are feeding the baby.

More time= more bonding. And breastfeeding forces moms to dedicate hours every day to be with the baby. Bottle feeding moms have to consciously choose to be the ones feeding the baby if they're in a family like the duggars where sisters are caring for the baby almost as much as the mom.

Jenn - posted on 11/13/2011

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Umm yeah Katherine that is what I was saying in the first place when Sherri said she didn't want her kids looking like "welfare bums". I was saying it is not right to judge by what someoe is wearing, my child could be playing outside and i didn't want her to ruin her good clothes so put old ones on her. I think you should read back through the posts because that was my whole point that her statement bothered me because i was on assistance before and didn't dress my children like "bums" because of it. I was saying the exact same thing you are. Before you tell me to listen to myself maybe you should reread my posts and Sherri's.

Katherine - posted on 11/13/2011

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jenn - its not the looks that are decieving its how you prtray them. again you choose to judge. so what if a someone is wearing torn jeans and an old t shirt- maybe they just got off work or was doing yard work. who cares not your place to assume they are on assistance- or unfit anything. listen to yourself.

Katherine - posted on 11/13/2011

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Jenn-
you choose to judge. doesnt matter if you are on tv or not. they didnt do the tv show to be judged for being different.

Jenn - posted on 11/13/2011

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I am sorry but it was hard not to take it personally when it is reflecting on my exact situation had been. I would hate for someone to think my kids are not taken care of and that i am a shitty mom based on their outfits. It's ok though, i know you were not directing it at anyone in particular, it just struck a nerve how it sounded. I am over it though, we all judge sometimes and we all have our own opinions, etc that not everyone is going to agree with. It just came out as if you looked down on people who are on assistance or that you assumed anyone who was on assistance dresses their kids like bums. That is how I took it anyways, which is not the case clearly, which you obviously know if you are on assistance as well. Looks can be deceiving:/ Anywho, back to the original topic:) No hard feelings:)

Jenn - posted on 11/13/2011

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It is not right to judge, but when people decide to make their private life public via television or whatever else, then they are inviting judgement. They are making a profit off of the world watching their family on television. Being judged comes with that lifestyle. There is not one person in that has never judged another person for something, I don't care who you are. We judge people without even realizing we are doing it. We have first impressions of people without knowing them. If they didn't want the world speculating about their life they should have kept it off of television and out of people's living rooms.

Sherri - posted on 11/13/2011

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Jenn I apologize for it offending you but I do think you took it far too personally and literally.

Katherine - posted on 11/13/2011

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Lisa Moreau- Looney or exemplary-

How does it feel to be in thier place. Its not right posting something like this about people you do not know.
To each their own- on living life the way they chose to and shame on those for judging those who choose to live their life differently then yours.
I choose to raise my kids to not judge-
I choose to raise my kids to be accepting of those who are different for what a boring place this would be if we all were to live the same.

Jenn - posted on 11/13/2011

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Ok well i am glad it is funny for you Sherri, but it offended me. I am not asking you to take back what you said, I am simply stating MY opinion, which is that I found that it came out rather rude and it bothered me. That's all. :)

Sherri - posted on 11/13/2011

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Want the funny part of the whole thing I am on assistance Jenn. BAHAHA so obviously even being on assistance I stand by my statements.

Jenn - posted on 11/13/2011

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@Sherri-I am not saying you are not entitled to your opinions or way of thinking, i respect that you are, this however offended me because i have been on income assistance, and unless you know somebody's situation then it is unfair to judge them based on something like that. My kids were 'welfare kids' at one point, but you would not know it by looking at them because i still cared to dress them nicely when out and about. However as another mom pointed out, i am not going to send them outside in their new clothes to have them come in with grass stains a half hour later, i would hate to think that makes me appear as a uncaring mother. If you do not feel the need to apologize then you do not have too but what if i were to say 'Ugh, all moms who are so concerned with looks and brand names are shallow and more concerned with their image then their kids..' I AM NOT SAYING i think that at all, but you would probably feel the same way i felt when i read your welfare comment. While there are tons of people who abuse welfare, there are also people who, like myself, have truly needed it when going through a hard time and until they get back on their feet and it is no longer necessary. Would i be a better mom if i refused assistance because i was worried what people may think of me and allow my kids to go without because I am scared of what people will label me as? Things happen, people lose jobs suddenly, illnesses happen, deaths, addiction, there are tons of reasons why someone may need assistance, and that is why it is there. I have never once sponged off the government for the hell of it and as soon as it was no longer necessary i was off of it. Honestly, it's messed up that i even feel i have to defend myself and explain my reasoning, but that is how I feel.

Anyways, I am sorry for the rant but please try to think about how your comment may affect other people.

@Jeanette- If I inadvertently offended someone i would feel an apology would be a nice thing too give, but that's just me. And as far as speculating about the Duggar's private life, well they have chose to make it public and air it on TV all over the world, therefore inviting people to speculate.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/13/2011

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That's true. And my husband is only in school a few days a week, it may not be as easy when he starts working.

My brother and I are only 3 years apart and my parents got him as a foster child when he was 6 months old- I was almost 4. It wasn't as large of an age gap as I have with my two, but my dad also had a job that allowed him to get off work at 4pm and have weekends off.

Sherri - posted on 11/13/2011

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Ah well makes since, since you have two also with a large age gap.

Also my husband works so much he often doesn't get home till bedtime M-F. So typically it isn't an option for me since it usually is me with all the kids.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/13/2011

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That's good for you. However in my family while we do things as a family we also make time for one on one time so that each child feels special and that some things are just theirs.

I do this a lot with my 7 year old because she was an only child until her sister was born back in March. I enjoy letting my older daughter know that she can still rely on having mommy time and that she doesn't need to feel pushed aside by having a baby sister.

My parents did that for me after my brother was adopted. My dad would take me with him down to where he hunts so I could spend time with just him while my mom was home with my brother. I enjoyed that time and want to make sure my children get to do that too along with family activities.

Sherri - posted on 11/13/2011

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See I don't give one on one attention we do everything as a family and I don't feel that any have missed/or are missing out because they don't get just me by myself vs. with their brothers.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/13/2011

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I'm a SAHM so my children are with me 24/7 baring school, grandparents or friends. They do get one on one time with me or my husband. Of course the 8 month old doesn't care, but I make sure my 7 year old does get time with me.



I'm not disputing that baking isn't bonding. But we're talking a family that would equal the employees of some small coffee shops where I live. That isn't giving your child time with just you and him or her. When my 8 month old decides she wants to have just time with mommy or daddy my husband and I can give that to her because we plan on having 2 more children then stopping.

Sherri - posted on 11/13/2011

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Well my kids never get one on one time with me either since they are with me 24/7 when they aren't in school and I only have 3. Not to mention I also do daycare so all day I have multiple kids here and many aren't even their siblings. So no way do they get any one on one time then.

For me baking and cooking with my kids is bonding time with them. So I disagree that it is only for teaching.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/13/2011

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For me either breastfeeding or my implanon is working because I haven't seen a period in over a year and my baby is 8 months.

For everyone who was talking about how she homeschools and bakes and cooks with her children. That isn't one on one time with your children. That's either being a teacher or doing a group activity. It's far from doing one on one bonding.

[deleted account]

This is from an interview with Michelle Duggar about breastfeeding:
Despite her many obstacles, she wanted to keep breastfeeding, and so she did. Her children have all nursed for varying amounts of time, but her supply drastically decreases whenever she becomes pregnant, which has obviously been quite often.

“The longest I’ve been able to breastfeed is nine months, and I’m thrilled about that,” she said. “I’m designed in such a way that I start my cycle six weeks after the baby is born—and that’s with no paci, no water, just breastfeeding—to the T!” she said, referring to the fact that exclusive breastfeeding—and in particular, a practice called lactational amenorrhea method (LAM)—can be a form of natural birth control if certain conditions are in place.

It’s like clockwork, she says: though she’s likely not ovulating with the first menstrual cycle that returns, her cycles are regular from that moment on. “At eight months (after the previous baby was born), I usually conceive, and when I do get pregnant, then my milk seems to dry up. So by nine months, my baby is fussing when I’m nursing…that’s when I have to supplement.”

She doesn't wean when the babies are 9 months so that she can get pregnant again -- the babies wean because she is pregnant and her supply dries up. She also stated that her periods come back after 6 weeks postpartum. Not everyone has lactation amenorrhea. She apparently doesn't.
I don't understand why everyone gets so worked up about the Duggars.

Rosie - posted on 11/13/2011

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lauralei, feeding a child isn't the only way to bond with them, whether it's by breast or bottle. doesn't matter. holding, interacting, playing etc. are all ways to bond with a child. :)

i'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere before, but if she was all about gods will she would've left her last baby to be handled by gods will. no doctors...but of course that didn't happen.

April - posted on 11/13/2011

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Leaving it up to God's will my A$$! Since obviously she doesn't nurse to natural duration, her cycle comes back a lot sooner. That sounds like something she is doing of her own free will. She's encouraging her cycle to come back so she can be pregnant by 9 months postpartum. Also, something Jim Bob said in a magazine struck a chord with me. He said prior to becoming pregnant with her 20th child, Michelle has been exercising and eating right in preparation for the future 20th child. It bugged the heck out of me because I read it as she did something in her power to "help" her body get pregnant again.

Sherri - posted on 11/13/2011

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She also does a ton of cooking and baking with the kids as well Rebecca. I would be willing to bet you are right on that, especially since the girls I watch 5 days a week I have had since they were a yr old and I have them 10 hrs a day. So M-F their parents only get to see them for 2 or 3 hrs a day at the most.

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I was thinking about the fact that so many people have criticised the Duggars for not being able to spend time with each child and have a relationship with each child. Considering that the kids are homeschooled, I wonder if they might actually spend more time with their kids than most parents in America do. For example, most parents with school age kids send their kids to school around 8 and they are at school until 3 (approximately). Assuming the kids don't then go to latchkey, they would have about 5 hours home with mom and dad (assuming they also don't spend any time doing activities like sports, etc.). For many kids who have both parents working, they don't see their kids from 8 am to 6 pm every day. In contrast, Michelle Duggar is home with her kids 100% of the time and is homeschooling them and interacting with them as part of that (and well as the general day to day flow of the home). I'm not saying I know one way or the other, but I wouldn't be at all suprised that, even with all those kids, Michelle Duggar probably interacts more with her kids than many parents because she is around them more and has more opportunities for interaction.

Kellie - posted on 11/13/2011

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l think after there last baby Josie was born at like 25 weeks they should have stopped. Michelle is also 45 years old. Things can happeren. Plus she could not look after the little kids without alot of help from her older chidren, but they do seem to be a nice family.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/12/2011

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Laurelai (I know I mispelled your name before) I thought I was trying to explain that breast feeding isn't the only way to bond in my post. I was agreeing with you about the fact that the bond with her younger children was shortened by her. I hope you didn't think I was saying anything like that about your post. If you did I appologize for that.



I think it's sad that she keeps trying to have one right after the other and as someone whose children are nearly 7 years apart I am shocked that the nearly 3 year age gap between Jolie and the next one is so large. Yes I know most parents don't wait nearly 7 years. My mom and her older sister are a year and 9 days apart and my husband and one of his brothers are exactly 2 years apart. I can't use comparissons for my brother and I because we're adopted from different families. But I believe having some time between your children is good for you and for your children

Merry - posted on 11/12/2011

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I never ment to imply that breastfeeding is the best or only way to bond, but I'm thinking if she isn't nursing the baby past 4,7,9 months then she could possiblygo hours and hours without even seeing the baby! The sisterscould do all the bottles and naps and there's no 'need' for Michelle to get time with her baby.
So I'm sure bottle fed babies can bond just as well as breastfeed ones, but not if they never get time with their mom.
Time is key to bonding. And breastfeeding forces mom to spend lots of time with the baby. Bottle feeding moms have to make sure they are the primary feeders or something or else baby could bond with whoever feeds it most.

I hope that makes sense. I'm not knocking bottle feeding and any time at the breast is amazing for any baby. I'm just saying time is key to bonding with a baby"

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/12/2011

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Yes, but if you offend someone because of something you said that came out wrong, then an appology is in order. I'm not saying you should appologize for your convictions. I'm saying that if the wording comes out wrong then you should say something.

Jeannette - posted on 11/12/2011

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@Meggy, to the first paragraph, I do not think people need to apologize for thinking or feeling the way they do just because someone found it offensive. People can take offense at anything and everything and manners themselves are a matter of opinion.
As for why I apologized to you, it was due to the one comment I knew to be provocative and not really in line necessarily with what I thought. I recognized what it was and apologized.
I am not offended by people who think others to be "crazy" or mentally unstable because of their difference in beliefs, however, I do find it incredibly hypocritical to pretend it is not a judgement call - when it clearly is. Granted, we cannot all refrain from being hypocrites all the time, hence my reference to myself getting on my own high horse.
I try to be honest even though I am on a social website where I can tell you all anything. When people take great pains to point out a person being judgmental, they should expect the favor in return. We are all human.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/12/2011

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I'm not having fun breastfeeding my 8 month old but I do it. I also have family members who don't care that I feed my baby where ever I'm sitting. And I only use a bottle in public because my 8 month old started throwing the cover off of herself at 5 months.

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