To spank or not to spank your point of view.

Jessica - posted on 11/20/2010

Ok without reading all the other 6 pages. OP I agree that I don't think spanking is a good solution. For many reasons. One is because- like you mentioned- for many children it becomes "not enough" after a while to stop them. It doesn't teach them why not to do something- it just teaches them that mommy/daddy will hit them, and they can become desensitized to that after a while. And then what do you do? Hit them harder?

On the abuse/not abuse thing. I believe that line is determined by the child- not the parent. You cannot simply say, if its not leaving marks or is only on the butt then its ok. It can have intense emotional impacts on children, and unfortunately I don't think many parents are aware of the signs of that and when they need to stop.

Another thing that bothers me, but I have NEVER seen brought up in these debates. Does it bother anyone else that you are hitting your child in what is essentially a private area of their body? I don't know if I want to go so far as to call it sexual abuse, but its close. Think about it. We teach kids that that area is a "private place" and its not appropriate for other people to see, touch, etc. But then, we go ahead and hit them there when they do something we dislike, sometimes without any pants or underwear on. And somehow, no one seems to realize that that could potentially cause a great deal of emotional confusion and humiliation in a child. So no, I don't think that hitting a child on the butt is different than hitting them in the face or anywhere else, in fact its possibly worse.

Rosie - posted on 11/20/2010

you know jenn that was like a huge lightbulb moment for me (thanks oprah, lol). that's totally what was happening before when i used to spank. if timeout didn't work after multiple attempts i would warn them about a potential spanking and if it happened again i would follow through with my threat of a spanking. thanks for putting that in a new light!!! :)

Jenn - posted on 11/20/2010

OK - here's a question: I see Brandi (not meaning to single you out as lots of people do this) mentioned about using a time out and when that didn't work a spank is the last resort. Well, what do you mean the time out didn't work? Do you mean they didn't stay in time out? Do you mean after their time out they did whatever naughty thing they did again? I'm confused why you would need to spank after a time out. If my child gets out of the naughty spot, I put them back and the time starts over. If, after a time out, they continue on with the naughty behaviour, they go right back to the naughty spot. Stick to your guns and they will know that you mean what you say. To go from one form of discipline to another all within a short time frame only causes confusion and sends the message that they can get away with just a little bit more before Mom or Dad will get really mad and spank, so why bother listening when it comes to a time out? You have made your own time out method ineffective by your own actions.

Toni - posted on 11/19/2010

Oh wow, meltdown alert...Just in case you do come back to read our thoughts, I have attacked nothing, I have offered differing thoughts on your view provided Brandi, as you are more than welcome to do regarding mine.



Oh and yes I have been on here an awful lot lately but that was due to being on complete bedrest, including not being allowed to look after my son, which my husband and family have been doing for me. So maybe before you jump to conclusions, you should realise you don't know everything...



Krista, you are hilarious!

Chatty - posted on 11/19/2010

Krista, THAT was fuckin' funny!

Teresa - posted on 11/19/2010

Watch it Krista! It's PMS time again. I may have to tell you to bite me again! ;) lol

Lacye - posted on 11/19/2010

my breath doesn't stink! i just got through brushing my teeth a little while ago so ha! lol

Krista - posted on 11/19/2010

I think each and every one of you is really damn funny-looking, your breath stinks, and I hope you all come down with the scabies.

But that's just MY OPINION, AND IF ANY OF YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT, I'M GONNA SAY I'M BEING ATTACKED, WILL QUESTION YOUR PARENTING SKILLS AND WILL TAKE MY BALL AND GO HOME!!!

Lacye - posted on 11/19/2010

LOL no i won't take it as an attack! too funny dana. I do look for other methods so if you have suggestions i would be happy to hear them. :D

Chatty - posted on 11/19/2010

Lacye said, "popping a child on the hand when they get into trouble is ok".

Am I allowed to offer a different opinion now or is it going to be taken as an attack? Lacye, do you mind if I comment?

;)

Chatty - posted on 11/19/2010

What are you talking about, Brandi? I just suggested you not post comments in a DEBATING community unless you want to debate. We're not here necessarily trying to change minds.....we're debating; a concept that is clearly over your head. What did I say that was POINTLESS? How am I attacking you?

Lacye - posted on 11/19/2010

wow! uuummmm....... not sure if it is safe to post. LOL but i will anyways. As long as the spanking isn't taken too far, i see nothing wrong with it. popping a child on the hand when they get into trouble is ok. One pop on the booty is ok. But like anything else, there is a limit. I do try other methods and in some cases a pop on the hand works best for my daughter. The first time I had to pop my daughter on her hand was when she started to yank on my hair and she was ripping it to where i had a patch of hair that was about an inch long, luckily it was easily coved by bangs!

Charlie - posted on 11/19/2010

I vote upi rename this community : The kitchen .
haha.

September - posted on 11/19/2010

Get yer ass out the kitchen!!!!! :) excuse my lack of perfect grammar there ;) it was on purpose!

Charlie - posted on 11/19/2010

Well you know what they say " if you can't stand the heat ........................."

September - posted on 11/19/2010

LOL! :) Big girl panties are required while visiting DM! :)

Brandi - posted on 11/19/2010

yes, I am removing myself from this nonsense, I do have things I have to do, like work at my job and spend my time with my children, so have to it you guys!!

Charlie - posted on 11/19/2010

LOL This is where big girls come to debate , it is not attacking to have an opposing opinion , the reason many of us have high post rates is because of this very community which can be fast paced at times of heated debate coupled with being a member of COM for years it only takes an hour or two of our free time to clock them up , so please lets leave your snide personal attacks about what we do in our homes in our free time and get back to debating please , i suggest you read debating etiquette at the top of this community in the pinned threads *eye roll*

Erin - posted on 11/19/2010

Brandi, for the third time, this is a debating group. If you don't want your opinions challenged then don't post.

Brandi - posted on 11/19/2010

Also, by looking at all the posts that you guys make, seems to me like you have more time on the computer thank with your kids in the first place... Just saying.

Brandi - posted on 11/19/2010

funny, that is what I did, but I am being ATTACKED because I stated my opinion... I don't think you are WRONG for not spanking, but obviously YOU guys think I am WRONG for spanking, the only people not seeing the other side is the ones AGAINST spanking, so until you see my point there is no point in EVEN TRYING TO DEBATE THIS. It is simply very stupid and immature.

Jennifer - posted on 11/19/2010

de·bate (d-bt)

v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates

v.intr.

1. To consider something; deliberate.

2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.

3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.

4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.



debating, and stating opinion are 2 different things. this is a debate community. no one is attacking anyone. the point is to challange points of view, and look at things from different angles.

Brandi - posted on 11/19/2010

It doesn't matter, you raise your kids how you like, I will raise mine how I would like. And why are you all debating over something, when you will NEVER see the other side of ANYTHING, seems pretty pointless to me... um, TONI AND DANA... POINTLESS. I never said I was against people who didn't spank, um frankly I could careless if you do or don't, I simply stated my opinion on it, so take your remarks elsewhere. Just because you are debating, that doesn't mean ATTACKING!

Toni - posted on 11/19/2010

Brandi, this is a debating community, if you don't want to debate don't post to it.



I have a few points to make regarding your post. First up many of my friends never had a hand raised to them and they have also NEVER experimented with drugs, NEVER been in trouble or broke the law, they hold down very respectful and successful jobs and are exceptionally well-rounded individuals, so the arguement that you were spanked and have turned out this way is redundant, because people who weren't spanked often turn out this way too.



The scriptures support discipline NOT spanking! The rod is used as a prop to guide, much as a shepherd guides his sheep with a rod, he does not use it to hit them with.

Chatty - posted on 11/19/2010

Sorry, but I am going to direct something to you, BRANDI -- this is a DEBATE community. There has to be an expectation that we're going to challenge what you say; your opinion doesn't get to be just your opinion in a debate. Why did you post in this community if you're not willing to debate the issue?

Brandi - posted on 11/19/2010

I think spanking is needed from time to time. I always give warnings, then time out, then taking all toys away and cartoons, and if that doesn't work a small spanking (just one swat ONLY on the bottom) and they KNOW I mean what I say.

I disagree that a spanking is abuse. There is a difference between spanking your children as a last resort on the bottom, and punching them in the face, or punching them at all for that matter.

I was spanked as a child, and I have never been in any kind of trouble, never experimented with drugs, always kept a job, and in my opinion, I am a well-rounded individual. The same goes for friends of mine, who were punished the same way.

I think a lot of parents let their kids get away with too much these days, and it is easier for the parents to let the child run free than it is to punish. Yes, I think other action should be taken before a spanking, but if all else fails, a good old fashion spanking might be needed. 15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame. 17 Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul." (Proverbs 29:15, 17)

My Opinion Only, I do not want any hateful comments about this, everyone is entitled to THEIR OWN opinion... DO NOT direct anything to me, thanks!

Charlie - posted on 11/18/2010

Its smacking in Australia too .

Anika - posted on 11/18/2010

It's smacking in New Zealand. If it was particularly bad, it would be termed a hiding or 'the bash' but I don't think people admit to that these days. Spanking is a term used for a completely different male alone time activity LOL. Popping and tapping is not heard here. The first time I heard those terms (on a podcast) it took me awhile to figure out what it meant.

Hannah - posted on 11/18/2010

This is hard because I know most are non-spankers. I am a last resort spanker. After all other methods have failed, I will spank. I usually count to three, re-direct, and many "please stop" in between. I very rarely have to spank and usually the mere mention that it is getting to that point will get my son to knock it off. I believe that it can be done calmly. Sometimes, re-directing, time-outs, etc... just don't work.

Toni - posted on 11/18/2010

I agree with Dana, all semantics different words, same meanings and intentions.

In the UK we also use smacking rather than spanking when discussing children.

Chatty - posted on 11/18/2010

Smacking...spanking...tapping...popping et. -- what do you call it? Does it all mean the same thing? This came up in another spanking debate and for me they all pretty much mean the same thing....semantics and word games!

Just wanted to point out that the Aussies I've encountered typically call it "smacking" and in another community a pro-spanking mother took offense to that term.

Sal - posted on 11/18/2010

i think that smacking is ok (not the best option but ok if not too servere and i have used it to stop dangerous behaviour like running on the road, i don;t mind the only thing stopping my toddler rujnning in the road is fear of a smack) , however it isn;t really effective with my children (one would rather i was spanking her than playing with her sister when she is in trouble, and my eldest would say why can't you just smack me and let me have the tv time back) and i don;t like the rub off effect it has (ie them smacking each other) other kids the mere mention of the fact a smack is getting close is enough to stop bad behaviour instanty, i also think that as some people go too far too often it can be difficult to judge everyone together, one person might have a tap on the hand and someone else will see it ok to get out the belt, (and that is not ok i feel) something i heard once which really sticks in my mind is are you smacking to punish and teach the child a lesson (maybe ok) or are you smacking out of anger (not ever ok)

Krista - posted on 11/17/2010

I wasn't speaking directly about you ladies, and I absolutely wasn't offended. I guess I was just thinking back to prior debates, and just really don't remember seeing a whole lot of comments from we non-spankers acknowledging that it's not easy, and giving ideas on how to get past that moment of temptation. I've done the same thing: talking about my reasons for not spanking, but not talking about HOW to turn away from it.

This definitely wasn't meant to attack or accuse anybody of anything. I think it was just something that came to mind, and goodness knows, I DO tend to say what's on my mind.

Morgan - posted on 11/17/2010

I never really thought about like that Krista, It just hits a nerve with me thats all, I am sorry if I offended you at all. I just dont agree with it, but probaly came off to harsh.

Chatty - posted on 11/17/2010

I completely agree with you, Krista, which is why I've tried to tone it down. I hope I've been successful?

About acknowledging that I'm tempted to spank -- I've said the exact same thing several million times before but apparently I wasn't expressing myself properly. I've always said that because I was raised in a "spanking" home (my parents say spanking, I say abusive) and I know that I have a temper, that I would rather not spank at all because I don't trust myself. I've always said that there is a VERY fine line between spanking a child and crossing the line to where it becomes abuse. It's just not a risk I'm willing to take so therefore I choose to focus my time on learning, adapting, practicing etc. positive discipline/behavioural strategies.

I absolutely couldn't agree with you more.

Krista - posted on 11/17/2010

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I think that much like breastfeeding, NOT spanking can be very difficult sometimes. And I think that the first step is for anti-spankers to acknowledge that.

If I were a spanking mom who didn't want to spank anymore, I would find it very encouraging and motivating if the anti-spanking moms said "Yes, of course I'm tempted to spank sometimes, when I'm tired or frustrated, and he's pushing my every button. And this is how I cope with it..."

I think that sometimes, some anti-spanking moms (not necessarily any of you ladies) come across as though they never, ever have that temptation, and that there is something inherently wrong with any mother who is tempted to spank. And that can be very alienating.

It just seems as though a few posts back, when I acknowledged that yes, I am very tempted to spank Sam, which is WHY I don't allow myself to even open that door, it was like a big "eureka" moment for people -- I mean, has something like that not been said before? Because it should be. When talking to parents who spank, we should be empathizing with how trying kids can be, and acknowledging that toddlers can make you just about want to chew pieces out of the furniture. And we should help them FIRST find ways to resist that temptation and THEN find other options. Because if we skip that first step and don't acknowledge that the temptation can be overwhelming at times, then we're only coming across as someone who doesn't understand and is being judgmental.

Tiffany - posted on 11/17/2010

spanking is always the last option for me and my husband when it comes to our two sons. and it also depends on what they did. we always do the time out and go to your room or take a toy away. if none of that works or they hit someone then we swat their hand or bottom but only once and not hard enough to leave a mark or anything. just so he understands what he did was wrong.
i was spanked when i was little and i always said i wouldnt spank my kids. i found myself spanking my oldest son alot after his brother was born because i was always stressed so if he did something wrong i always jumped to spanking him and that was it. i realized after he spilt his drink on accident on his bed and i spanked him that it was wrong and i was teaching my child to fear me. i didnt like that. so i stopped. now it is truely a last resort.

Teresa - posted on 11/17/2010

Funny how that is, Loureen. I was just thinking the same thing about the stuff that Kati posted. ;)

Chatty - posted on 11/17/2010

I ♥ Loureen!

Charlie - posted on 11/17/2010

I can sit back and relax Dana Mak speaks for me LOL.

Toni - posted on 11/17/2010

Kati I completely agree that by telling people they are abusing their children when they are honestly just trying to discipline them is the best way they know how is silly, smacking is NOT abuse and it does take-away from people who were/ are abused.



But while I recognise it is not abuse, it is an abuse of power and trust, as adults we are bigger and stronger than our children and it is our job to protect them and guide them. However, that is vastly different to phsyical abuse.



I will conceded that maybe saying people who spank calmly are weird was the wrong choice of words, I find it odd that people can be completely calm and smack their children without wanting to find a better ways to discipline them, all of my instincts tell me anything that hurts my child is wrong and smacking hurts children, be it momentarily or in the long-term (that depends on the child).



I still feel using smacking because you just follow what was done to you is lazy, but the act is lazy not the person I have no idea what type of person this person is and the lifestyle they lead other than they made a choice that I wouldn't in regards to parenting so I cannot call them lazy, however, I can feel the action of doing what was done to you without doing any other research is lazy.

Rosie - posted on 11/17/2010

toni, my bio-dad was violent and abusive. he left when i was 2 though. my step father (whom i always refer to as my father) and my mother never hit me except for one time. i don't even remember what i did. but i don't remember him being angry. i think the reason i get so defensive in these threads is because i WAS abused. being spanked by a person who loves you and who's intent is to guide you in the right way was in no way shape or form comparable to the abuse i suffered at the hands of my bio-dad. it's pretty insulting to me to place the two things in the same catagory. they are not even close to being the same thing.

i understand your opinion is your opinion, and i actually agree with your opinion-to an extent. i just don't feel that calling people lazy or weird is necessary, or helpful to the "cause."

i would also like to say that when i was talking about people saying spankers were abusive, i didn't necessarily mean that you said that. it has been mentioned in this post, and several other posts and i just threw it in there with the words you said to make a point about all of those words being thrown out there by anti-smackers. i apologize for the confusion.

and once again morgan, neither of them are abuse, and i have the law to back me up. it's your opinion that it's abuse, but it's not fact. and once again, calling people abusers is the most redundant, assinine, thing. i understand that it's your opinion but don't you think there are better ways to make people feel that spanking is wrong other than by bullying them. it doesn't work, and will only fall on deaf ears if used enough.

Rachel - posted on 11/17/2010

lol Dana Way ahead of you on that one. Joined a couple days ago, I have a post there i would love to get opinions on to.

Toni - posted on 11/17/2010

Kati I thought I remembered you saying your bio dad was violent towards you and your sister in other posts, I thought that was part of the reason you made the decision to stop smacking your kids so as not to turn into him, I could be muddled up with someone else though, so I apologise if I was mistaken.

I really don't want to offend anyone but my opinion is my opinion and I will not apologise about it, it is something I feel strongly about.

I would like to point out Kati you are putting words in my mouth that I haven't said; I have never said that I believe people who spank occasionally are abusive, I do believe there is a fine line between smacking and abuse but someone who smacks their child every now and then as discipline are not abusing their children - I know that, I'm not stupid.

I also have never said that I feel those who spank are unintelligent just generally they have an ignorance about discipline methods. Yes I do feel that just following a method because it is what was done when you was a child is lazy, many things have changed in the 26 years since I was born so I feel it is a parents duty to ensure they are parenting to the best of their ability and looking at modern developments helps with this (they do not have to agree with them, but be aware and make choices based on what they have learnt), when I was a child mums were told to put baby to sleep on their side now it has been found that actually putting baby on their back reduces SIDS, things change and those changes can really impact children and their development.

Teresa then you are not being refered to in my posts, you have researched and made a choice, which I can't understand but that is what you feel to be right for your family, I would imagine you don't do it very often not being pro-spanking.

Morgan - posted on 11/17/2010

"completely different things morgan, but keep on telling yourself that putting cancer causing carcinogens in your childs body is the same as discipline..."

they are not completely diffrent things they are both child abuse, I think they BOTH can harm your child physically AND mentally. like Dana said you can explain to a child why you hit them, but they are not listening all they can think is "mommy hurt me, I am bad", thats not somthing I want to ever cross my beautiful daughters mind.

Chatty - posted on 11/17/2010

Or join PBS! ;)

http://www.circleofmoms.com/positive-beh...

Rachel - posted on 11/17/2010

Lol ladies i love hearing your opinions. They are diverse and intereseting to see how different people view the subject. There seemed to be a conflict rising there, but i hope it has been resolved now. Everyone has there own views as to what is right and what is wrong. I personally have been a spanker. Sadly it escalated above just spanking, the moment it did i had to reavaluate my discipline techniques. Perphaps it was just so easy to spank out of anger, or perhaps it was hormones ( pregnant with baby number 2) My son decided to throw things at me, and time out was not working i tried to talk to him and punch and kicked me in the stomach while i was 6 or 7 months pregnant. I am ashamed to say i smacked him in the face. The moment i did it i felt so bad that I felt like reporting myself to Child Family Services. I cried. I apoligized to him and I promised myself to find a better way. Positive Parenting is something i plan on looking more into, rewarding good behaviour and disciplining bad. I love my son and I want to do right by him and me. Ever parent has to do right by them, and what they think is right. Who are we to tell people how to mother? However i am not afraid to say there may be some moms out there in need of guidance, and correction. I presonally believe that if you do not think your parenting is working it is your duty to find help. Whether it be a councellor, Child Family Services or just chatting it up with a girlfriend. It is our duty as moms to provide a safe haven for our children, as well as teach them how to control themselves and fit into socitety when they grow up. It just finding that balance that is sometimes hard.

Chatty - posted on 11/17/2010

Awww, muffin....

(((HUG)))

Teresa - posted on 11/17/2010

Defensive/offense... I don't know. ;) I've got a headache, a whiny 2 year old (doesn't get to play w/ his cousin today), and a semi-sick girl (the reason the 2 year old can't play w/ his cousin). I'm lucky I'm focused enough to be forming semi-coherent sentences at this point.... lol

I guess being slightly annoyed by those types of comments would more accurate. I'm a pretty rare spanker anyway, but it's kind of like the long term breastfeeding debate (though not REALLY comparable). When people have a problem w/ what I am doing/have done and use words that I feel are negative to describe that disapproval.... I do tend to take it a tad personally (though I'm trying to learn not to). It's just naturally in my personality. EVERYTHING is about me and it's all bad.... ;)

Chatty - posted on 11/17/2010

Phew *wipes the sweat from her brow*.....good thing I never said any of those things! ;)

Aren't you on the defense, Teresa? Just sayin...

If you're confident in your approach, then listening to other people shouldn't get you defensive. Just take what you need and leave the rest behind. I don't know about everyone else but even though this debate goes round and round and it's been done to death, I still get something from it each time. I respect Kati and I value her opinion so while I might not agree with her, it's definitely made me more aware of how my actions and words affect people. We can all learn something -- life is FULL of lessons.

OMFG! I sound so cheesy!