TODAY Moms get creative with discipline

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/04/2012 ( 156 moms have responded )

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In the latest case of parental creative discipline, a North Carolina dad made his 15-year-old daughter carry a large yellow sign on a busy street corner as a form of punishment for bad behavior at school.



According to this report from WCTI12.com, an ABC news station in New Bern, N.C., one side of the sign carried by Quandria Bryant read: "I have a bad attitude. I disrespect people who try to help me.”



Bryant’s dad, Donell Bryant, told the news station that his daughter had been suspended from school and was in need of an attitude adjustment. He said the public humiliation was meant to show his daughter that it was not OK to disrespect teachers.



Bryant joins the likes of Tommy Jordan, who recently shot his daughter’s laptop, and Denise Abbott, who X’d her daughter’s Facebook picture, in using discipline that -- while criticized by some and applauded by others -- shows there are plenty of ways to get your point across.



We asked TODAY Moms Facebook readers to share their own uses of creative discipline and explain whether it had a positive impact on their child’s behavior.



For Sian Houle, it’s all about checks and balances. She says that when her son “doesn’t finish a chore 100 percent, he only gets his cell [phone], not the battery.” She adds: “Why give him the full ‘paycheck’ if he doesn’t do the job?”



Treece Meers Sullivan says regular grounding has no effect on her daughter, who she describes as “a tomboy.” So she uses clothing as a way to discipline. Sullivan writes:



“I ground her from jeans and tennis shoes. I made her dress up for school everyday for two weeks. She had to explain to her friends and teachers why she was in slacks and dresses...Humility plays a very important part in discipline. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they just repeat the behavior?”



Shannon Ryan Wing learned a lesson from her own experience as a teen and the way her parents handled her know-it-all attitude. Wing comments:



“I slammed my door once to ‘get my point across’ that I was angry. Two minutes later, my mom and dad came into my room and calmly removed the door from the hinges…I was told I could earn it back when I was respectful. Being a teenage girl with no privacy was the worst punishment.”



When Jacqueline Simkaitis’s son was acting out, she and her husband decided he needed some company. At school. Her husband took off from work, sat in each class and “followed him everywhere.” Says Simkaitis:



“Now all we have to say is, ‘Do you want me to go to school again?’



Jutta Kapfhammer Helm discovered that her son had borrowed the family car for a night of muddy, reckless driving with his friends by reading it on his Facebook page. One friend had written: “Thanks for almost getting me killed last night!”



Helm revoked her son’s driving privileges and to get them back, he had to spend one full day confined to a wheelchair. Comments Helm:



“I drove him to school in my mini-van, took out the chair, he plopped down in it and he was on his own to wheel that chair up the handicap access ramp, and through the front doors of his high school. When I picked him up again after school, I asked him how his day went. With a big grin on his face, he replied: ‘It REALLY wasn't that bad, mom...I had girls pushing me around all day!' But I KNEW he had learned a valuable lesson.”



For Kelley Jones DeLong, one tried and true discipline technique comes in an odd form: hugs. Says DeLong:



When my kids are acting up I hug them that is just like a time out… Or if they are fighting, I make them sit on the couch and hug each other [until] they can get along. They hate it..it really does work!




http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...



Well as a fan of discipline and if required a little or a lot of humiliation. I have tried one or two of the listed consequences here. I would and will try them all, if ever required. I have not had to do it often but I can say, the few times I have, my daughter has never ever repeated the behaviour. She is also much more aware of what her mother is willing to do, if she makes a very poor choice. She is well aware of what those types of choices are. She is far from stupid. She definitely thinks twice or triple before moving forward. ;)



I know there are some Mom's here that are not in agreement with any form of discipline that may include humiliation. I also know there are some here, that are all for it.



How about you? How do you view these techniques listed? What techniques would you or have you used that may differ but fall along the same lines?

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Jenny - posted on 05/08/2012

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MeMe this is so ridiculous. I can't believe that Jodi came here and said she has had/has three teenagers and still finds humiliation as unnecessary in discipline, and then you started to questions her! Are you kidding me?? First your requirement was to have a teen to understand what its really like to put your parenting theories to practice. Then it went to you must have a teenage girl, then you went into she must be living with you full time....oh my god. Its never ending.



Like Jodi is trying to point out, your basically saying that noone can comment on your parenting theories because they have not had the exact same experiences you've had. Again, like Jodi said, I totally agree, in that case lets just all go home. What is the point in trying to discuss parenting strategies if you cannot accept someone elses opinoin if they are not in the exact same situation as you?



And then I cannot believe that you said this either...



"Ah, OK. I suppose it some sense, yes, that is correct. However, I thought the EXACT same way as them up until 6 months ago. ;)" - MeMe



So on top of all your requirements, it really doesnt matter if anyone of us has a teen age daughter that lives with us 24/7, she must also test our patience and not respond to talks to the point your daughter (im assuming here that this is what changed) started to act out 6 months ago!!!!



What exactly is your requirement for anybody to have a say on the topic of using these type of "creative" forms of discipline. You keep setting the standard higher each time anyone meets one of your standards!



I get that you feel that no one understands the exact situation you are going through because we are not going through it. That is a valid feeling. But this post is not about you personally, its about Today arcticle about Mums getting creative with discipline and how we (the other mums) veiw these tequniques.



This is what you wrote under the article

"How about you? How do you view these techniques listed? What techniques would you or have you used that may differ but fall along the same lines?" - MeMe



Hence, because of this I have every right to state that I do not agree with a humiliating form of disipline. That is my core value at this point in my life given my circumstances. You can take that to mean didilly squat and that is fine. It just shows that you dont really respect anyone elses opinion unless they are in the exact same circumstance that you experience, which is impossible to be in. But im fine with this, because there are enough other mums around here who dont mind hearing my two cents worth, so I will state my opinon for their sake, and not worry about you not respecting it as a valid opinion due to my young kids status.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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"I don't feel it is appropriate to question why someone does something a certain way, that may not jive with their theory. Simply because they are NOT there yet."

So then none of us should be here at all. I'm not in your shoes, you're not in mine. I have 3 kids, you have 2. Mine are close together, yours are further apart (age), you have a boy, I have all girls. Some people have more kids, some only have one. Some people have only step kids, others have only biological children, others have adopted or foster, and some have any variety of the those. Any one of these factors changes the dynamics for the family greatly. Your child has special needs, mine don't. So your view of a teenager shouldn't be relavent to anyone with a teen without special needs right? Seriously, this is a debating forum, all of opinions are appropriate, whether that means they go against yours or not is not of importance here, unless you decide to take it personally (which I'm not saying you are). I may not HAVE a teen, but my teenage niece spends many weekends with us, and during the summer she is my mother's helper 3 or 4 days a week, this is more than some parents see their own children. I DO have experience with teens, even if it's not my own child. If you don't want others to discuss your opinion, or you're not interested in hearing someone elses opinion because YOU deem their experience isn't worthy of discussion...go somewhere else. You make statements like this ALL the time, and not just this thread. It's getting really annoying.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/07/2012

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I should also add, it all depends on what we all define "public humiliation" as. There most definitely are things I would not do, like the sign (as I already said) but I would scold them in public. If this is where we were at the time and they fell short of using their listening skills that they have already been taught, you can bet your bottom dollar, I have and will again, take care of it right there and then.

I would definitely jump on my kids bus again. I would definitely sit in on her/his classes if they were found skipping. I would definitely make them use a wheel chair for a day, if they were being reckless drivers (and take away their privileges for a while). I would take their door off. I would walk into any of my kids friends homes and yank them out, in front of all their friends, if I had extreme purpose for it.

I love my children dearly. Sometimes, what you are currently doing, no longer works. Sometimes, there needs to be an extreme for their extreme behaviour. You cannot give up on your child. If one way is not getting through, I strongly suggest, getting through to them another way. Otherwise, your gonna lose them anyhow. I will never stop fighting for my children. Thank goodness, I have not had many terrible times with my daughter (my son is still too young, to know). Only two or three times, have I had to actually publicly discipline her in front of her friends.

Kelly---I have read them in the past. I cannot remember what I was searching when I stumbled across them. It was for the thread of "shooting the laptop" but I would have to sit down and look for them again. However, yes, they are there. I read them. Again, it depends on how you define public humiliation, as it is like any other discipline. There is a fine line and that line is defined differently for everyone. ;)

Janice - posted on 05/07/2012

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Just because a punishment is not physical does not mean it can't harm a child. A child who is punished through verbal abuse is just as susceptible to being hurt and becoming afraid of their parent.



I can't stand the all or nothing attitude. Giving your child their coat and embarrassing them is not bad but making a child hold a sign saying they are a loser could possibly be detrimental. Especially if they are constantly being told they are not good enough in some way.



I am all for natural consequences and creative punishments. I don't think being embarrassed by your parent is harmful, really kids get embarrassed by a lot when it comes to parents. Humiliation is different and if it is employed often can be just as detrimental to a child as spanking. I do not see the purpose of spanking but I also do not believe that it always harms a child as deeply as other types of non-physical punishment.



Spanking might make your child hate you, it might not. Public humiliation might make your child hate you it might not.



Personally, my mother throwing me against the wall when she caught me sneaking back in from a night out with my BF did not impact me much. However, my father going to my my boyfriends mother (now my MIL) and yelling at her for her son corrupting me was quite upsetting. It changed my view of him more and made me much less likely to trust him with anything. I don't think either of these punishments were okay but are just an example of how different things affect individual children in different ways.

Elizabeth - posted on 07/09/2012

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i don't want to debate any issues here I personally think all the disipline techniques work. You gotta know your kid. If carrying a yellow sign will make the point with your child while other things wont then do it I say.



Here are some of mine:



Daughters could not do ANYTHING together, so I duct taped them like a three legged man...each had an arm to work with. then I made them clean the bathroom. They would either learn to work together or it would be a miserable afternoon. Guess what, they didn't kill each other the bathroom was cleaned and they were giggling by the end.



Boy failed biology due to utter laziness. I made him carry the biology book for 6 weeks...everywhere. If he wouldnt read it I was hoping it would soak through his skin. After six weeks of eating sleeping ...everything with a book the size of a encyclopedia...he never failed again.



Took the door of oldest girl for slamming it...she doesn't slam doors anymore.



Kids kept hitting each other...they got to sit on their hands in front of one another and tell each other ten things they loved about each other.



Those are just a few.

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Dalia - posted on 07/05/2012

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While the issue is discipline and how far is too far? We need to remember who the adults are. Children know what we teach them and expose them to; you are the ultimate teacher. Whatever you do with your child (in terms of how you act and react to them and other individuals) impacts how they behave as a result. The apple does not fall very far from the tree in most cases.

With that said, children do know at a very young age how to push their parent's buttons. They know how to set you off and most of the time, they do it on purpose. As the adult, you need to recognize this and handle it appropriately. Take out your own personal frustrations in dealing with the bad behavior for when your child is not around. This is really hard to do, especially when your child is on your nerves like no other.

Here is a helpful link if you feel like you are at the end of your rope or want to fix your child's bad behavior: http://23b35zzdk-uydx72v8klhk9lde.hop.cl...

This is something I recommend based on my expertise in psychology. Good luck!

Sherri - posted on 06/03/2012

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I love every single one of these ideas and I would and will use one or all of them in the future if I need too. I think humiliation especially for a teenager is the best form of discipline there is.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/18/2012

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I agree America, I thought it was great too. Although, I would not have shot the laptop, since it would have been my money placed into it. To each is own with that. I wouldn't of made a you tube of my rant either. I would have went on her FB and I would have explained she was no longer allowed on FB and that she would be too busy to speak with anyone, anyhow, as she would be doing much worse chores than she had been before (that she felt so compelled to bitch about).

She knew she was doing wrong. She made sure to block a bunch of people before putting her rant out there. Unfortunately, she missed the family dog's profile.

Also, she had her laptop taken away multiple times in the past. She had to earn it back then too. When she did, she would abuse her privilege of having it. My kid, would not be having to earn it back, after such a rude and disrespectful act. She would be having to purchase her OWN! If she needed to do school work, she could utilize the computers at school by staying late. ;)

America3437 - posted on 05/18/2012

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I happen to think him shooting the laptop was great!!!! In the interview I saw she said she learned her lesson and that was kinda the point. He didn't destroy the information,he pulled the mother board out. He actually returned it to her on a morning news interview. She has to earn a new laptop and I think what he did was brillant!!!!! Why didn't I think of that?:)

Tracie - posted on 05/17/2012

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I try to discipline with "natural consequences" just like in real life. If you mouth off to your boss, you get fired. Natural consequences! The whole point of discipline is to TEACH APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR.

I fail to see the logic behind humiliating and disrespecting your child for being disrespectful. Huh? So is being disrespectful wrong or isn't it? It doesn't make sense. It seems to me these parents are more interested in asserting their power than teaching their children something.

Same thing for the dad who shot his daughter's laptop. Wouldn't a more effective tactic been to take away the laptop and make her earn it back? Now she just hates him and thinks he's a control freak (I agree) and she hasn't learned anything except that she doesn't matter to her dad. That's so sad!

Another parent tried the public humiliation thing for his son who was failing at school. Sorry, but wouldn't the boy's time have been better spent, oh, I don't know, STUDYING?!?! SMH at some of the decisions these parents have made. I'm glad I'M not their kid.

Beth - posted on 05/17/2012

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I don't think I could humiliate my children. My daughter maybe but my sons have autism and have enough issues as it is. My sons wouldn't understand I don't believe and it would cause more harm than good. My daughter is normal and would probably get it and as sneaky as she is I dont want to let her end up like her birth mother.

America3437 - posted on 05/16/2012

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Spanking can be creative...try doing it in the livingroom insted of the kids room or bedazzle the paddle...now thats creativity! I have spanked,taken away belongings and kept them home while I enjoyed a night that was planned for them. Spanking worked when they were little but not so much now. We made them put the lid on the toothpaste 100 times apiece and now they remember to put the lid on after they use it. Now thats creative.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/16/2012

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Sorry Charlene, but there are many many ways to get the message across without physical force. I too have very respectful, abiding children. I have never ever had to lay a hand on them.

Most people that spank, say it is a last resort. A last resort, means you, as a parent, have found yourself out of idea's. You are at the end of your rope. That is anger. You and no one else will make me think differently.

Yes, we will most definitely have to agree to disagree, on this. Especially since this thread is not about spanking. It is about creative discipline, which would be in lieu of spanking or any type of corporal punishment.

[deleted account]

I don't know if these punishments work or not because I don't have teens, but I don't see the harm in trying. I might not agree with all of them, but I've still got more respect for parents who do something than I have for the millions who are doing nothing to correct their out of control teens.

Charlene - posted on 05/15/2012

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MeMe said:
"..Oh and spanking is MUCH more than humiliation. It hurts, it makes them feel completely inferior. It saddens them to the core. It is NOT a discipline, it IS a punishment (thus why it is called corporal punishment). There is nothing being taught by hitting someone, except for them to hit too. Nothing is being solved. There is absolutely NO lesson in it. It is a very short term reaction to an action, that could be resolved in much more practical ways. There is no rational thought in raising you hand and hitting, it is a cop out. It is the easiest thing to do. You do not have to put any thought whatsoever when you hit someone, no planning. I fail to see how spanking is a good method. People that spank say they ONLY do it as a last resort. Well, I am sorry but if it is a last resort than you ARE pissed off when you do it. A last resort means the end of your rope!

Spanking is NOT the same or even closely related to any of the listed disciplines or teachings. It is also done a hell of a lot more often, than any of the OP listed techniques. It is a damn sure way to mess your kids up, with anger and resentment! "

You and I are going to have to disagree about this completely. I am 100% for spanking when other methods are not working. I NEVER spank my child when I am angry and before I would spank her, I always told her exactly why it was going to happen. I never liked paddling her, it broke my heart. But after I got hit by a car because she refused to stop running away from me in parking lots thinking it was a great game, she and I had a long talk about it and then she got a swat to the backside. She is 16 now and instead of a mouthy, disrespectful teen, I have a daughter that is considerate, polite, understands the rules and is confident that she is making the right decisions. She isn't the least resentful and actually comes to me and tells me when she has made hte wrong choice.

Now if you spank your child for everything they do wrong, then yes the will be resentful. But applied sparringly I think it goes a lot further than just "talking".

Charlene - posted on 05/15/2012

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When I found out I was pregnant I went through and read every book I could on how to raise a child to be respectful and confident. Everyone of those books were against any type of physical punishment or humiliation techniques. Basically it was about ignoring the bad behavior and only responding when the child made the correct decision. So, I did really well until my daughter started walking and discovered electrical outlets. I would pick her up and move her, try to get her to play with me with her toys etc. It never worked she would just make a beeline back to the outlets. (Childproof covers are a joke!) So after about of week of this I had had enough and I swatted her hand. My ex-husband came home to find us both sitting on the couch and crying together. But, I also noticed that she never went near them again. Then when she thought it would be a great game to slip out of my hand and run into the street and nearly got hit by a car, a swat on the backside did wonders for her manners.

Now, not every offense is a swattable offense. Now that she is 16 and almost a foot taller than me I have other options. But I can still stand right up to her and tell her if she mouths off at me again I will paddle her behind and her behavior corrects quickly. I would rather cause my child the shock of getting her butt spanked and learning that there are consequences to her actions, than for her to be seriously harmed because she doesn't understand that her decisions will have lasting impact.

It's no wonder there are so many kids today that have no respect for authority and think its acceptable to pitch a fit if they don't get what they want. These are the kids that wind up growing up and thinking that the world owes them.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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I have every one of their emails. I talk to them regularly. My daughter has an agenda, which she is suppose to write her assignments in. She is 14, she doesn't care to. I cannot make her, now can I?

I also, didn't say the teacher's would not know when I was coming. A lot of assuming occurring here. ;)

Actually, each one of her teacher's know, where I am at right now. They know I am ready for her to fail, if that is what has to occur. I am also not saying she IS going to fail. Since I still have an idea and an ability to try it, before she fails, I am willing to do it.

As I said, she is an A/B student. However, this is the last part of the year, her failures could cause her to fail. Her teacher's are concerned she is currently NOT meeting her outcomes.

I am ontop of it. I just need to take it a further step. Since, what I have been doing is still not sinking in to her.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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"If me trying to help her organize her things does not work, yep, I am throwing in the towel. That is the last thing I can do. She can fail, thereafter."



Actually, I'm not suggesting you ever throw in the towel. That's called giving up. We should continue to remind, take interest, assist. My son has a diary he must take to class each day, and he writes his homework in it. He and I have worked on a system where he just checks his diary at the end of the day to see what he needs to bring home, etc. So I am not suggesting that you need to do no more for her. But I am suggesting that humiliating her by turning up to class isn't necessary.



If I've needed to contact teachers, I do it by phone or email, not turning up to class.



Can I just say that as a teacher it would PISS ME OFF if parents started turning up to talk to me in class, or even after class. Make a damn appointment, email me, or make a call so I can call you back. Sorry, but every senior school teacher I know has at least 100 students, maybe 120 in total, across their various classes. How DARE one parent presume her issues with HER child are more important than all my other students so as to (a) disrupt the entire class or (b) presume that after class I have time when I actually have to get to another class, or, at the end of the day, have staff meetings, moderation meetings, and whatever else.



I do not take issue with you turning up to organise her locker or something equally unobtrusive. That is not humiliating, and it also isn't intruding on anyone else.

[deleted account]

I would consider sitting with your kid in class a form of public humiliation and I would not do it. I would not consider going with her to school to help organize her locker a form of public humiliation. Just go before or after class, once the halls are clear and quiet and you have room to pull things out of the locker without showing the world her mess. Work through it together to establish order, then give her techniques she can use on her own to keep the order. If none of the other students see you doing that with her, she won't be publicly humiliated. She may feel shame for not being able to do it herself, but as I stated earlier, there is a big difference in internal shame and public humiliation.

If she is failing because she can't keep organized due to the ADHD, then it is your job to help her find ways to keep herself organized. If she is failing because she knows you will bail her out and just doesn't care about her studies, then it is probably best to let her fail, to teach her that there will not always be someone there to bail her out. That is why the reason for a behavior is so important. Two kids can display the same behavior for completely different reasons, and the discipline we choose to stop the behavior must fit the reason, not only the behavior itself, or we never get to the root of the problem and risk making things worse.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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To add, perhaps I do have a fear of failing my child, I think as a parent, we all do. However, in whole, she is a very good kid. We have a wonderful relationship. She is very confident in herself and has great self esteem. I just feel, if you can guide them, it is our duty to do so. Sometimes, that calls for extreme measures, in order to get your point across. I don't think I am controlling her. She has a choice. Bring her stuff home and/or hand it in. It's really simple. If she chooses to make it difficult, then I guess it is what she wants. I am not going to fight with her. I will however, do what I can to help her, until enough is enough.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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One big problem with ADHD is unorganization. So, I feel it is my duty to try to help her get her things in order. It is only going to get worse for her. If me trying to help her organize her things does not work, yep, I am throwing in the towel. That is the last thing I can do. She can fail, thereafter.

[deleted account]

"I have jumped on my kids bus. To me that was NOT pubic humiliation. To Kelly, it appears it was."--meme



Meme, i never said I thought that you getting on the bus with your daughter was a form of public humiliation. I joined the conversation long after that was brought up and only skimmed the posts where it was mentioned, so I never felt qualified to comment on it (I don't know WHY she left the coat--did she forget it? did it not match her outfit?--which is integral to deciding on disciplinary action).

All of my comments have been in reference to public humiliation as a discipline tactic in general. Even in terms of the door, I never said I consider removing the door humiliating--I just said I didn't think it was an effective way to teach a child a positive way to vent negative emotions.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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So you are trying to make up for your mother's mistakes by controlling your daughter's every move. There is a big difference about failing your child completely, and allowing them to fail sometimes because despite your efforts (minus the humiliation), they still can't understand the consequences. Your daughter isn't you, and you are not your mother. The reason YOU didn't care that you failed is because your MOTHER didn't care. As long as you show that you care that they make their best efforts, and you are proud of them for that, your disappointment that she failed because of her own doing will often be enough for her to try harder.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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Jodi, I think you are speaking too far ahead for me here. This is not the first time. It has just gotten worse in the past 4 weeks. She has missed assignments before. I simply made her redo them. She has had some half done and left them at school, so she got to start them all over again, at home. Now, it is not just ONE assignment, here and there. It is several for three different classes. I am done with continuously getting the emails daily. It would be utterly cruel of me to just say "Ah, fail then, that'll teach ya". No, I will go to her school and I will check it out for my self. I will see how unorganized this locker of hers is, I will help her organize it. Now she can either fight me and make it a shitty experience OR she can accept it and her and I can make it a somewhat fun experience. She also has the choice to bring all of her damn assigments home before next week and I will not need to go and check her locker out at all.



Geez, didn't I just explain to you that my mother did just that? She just let me fail. I didn't give a crap. I just continued to fail. Until she completely lost me at the age of 14. When I say completely I mean SHE failed for not trying!



ETA:

I have even told the teacher's, that if she does not hand it in, to fail her on that assignment. They WON'T do it! It makes me angry. I have told her that if she doesn't smarten up and take it seriously, I WILL go to the Principal myself and tell them to keep her back. She didn't seem to care much. This is how I know she doesn't understand. However, before I go to that extreme, I need to see it for myself and give her the benefit of doubt. I need to see if I can help her in anyway, by helping her go through her locker and getting everything put into binders.

Jenny - posted on 05/08/2012

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"I have jumped on my kids bus. To me that was NOT pubic humiliation."

I would say that this IS public humiliation but is not INTENTIONAL public humiliation. As in, if your reasons for getting on the bus were driven by giving her the jacket so that she does not freeze that is fine. Any humiliation she may have experienced (I know you said that she said she did not feel humiliated, but im trying to be general, as in if she was any teen, it would not be unreasonalbe if they did feel slightly humiliated by their mother on the school bus returning their jacket) was not harmful, especially weighed against the fact that should would have been so extremely cold.



Althoug I would have weighed up just how gravely the cold would have affected her that day. If i thought it she would just have to shivver her way through lunch, maybe that would teach her to be responsible enough to bring her jacket to school, but if it were so cold to the point that her teeth would be chattering, her hands going numb, I dont know if i would go to that extreme just to teach her a lesson, in which case I would have chased after her on the bus too.



"I WOULD go to her class. Actually, it is something I WILL be doing next week, if she fails to bring her assignment home this week. To ME that is not humiliation."



This I would not do. I really dont think its necessary in order to teach her to bring her assignment home. It will just teach her that her mother is willing to go to humiliating lenghts to try control her. I think its extremly controlling and will create a lot of trust issues between you and her.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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Now I'm really confused. First you are saying you would go to her class, then you said you wouldn't be in her class, now you are saying you WOULD sit in on her class?



So you would go to her school. How is that any different to me suggesting picking her up from school and sending her in to get her assignment?



I quote :"I refuse to pick her up and tell her to go and get it. I would then have to do this everyday."



So how are you not going to have to turn up to her class every day to do the same thing? I honestly don't understand how sending her back to her locker to collect her assignment, or turning up to her class to make sure you get her assignment, is any different.....other than the humiliation factor of having you mum turn up in class and making it clear to everyone how hopelessly disorganised you are.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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Ah, sorry Jodi, I meant her school. However, I may have to go to her class, to talk to her teacher's. Actually, it is several classes. I guess, what I meant (and wasn't clear) is I would sit IN on her class. However, if it were for skipping consistenly, yes, I would be there all day and I would go class to class. However, I haven't had to do that yet. So, it is in theory, too.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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" I don't want her to learn by failing the whole grade."



So are you still going to do that for her when she is an adult? You were the one so intent on making it clear earlier in the conversation that "that's real life". And so.......isn't failure for not getting it done without mummy running around after you also real life? Failing the whole grade would sure as shit teach her a lesson.



And if I could say that if ONE assignment late/failed in each class is failing the entire grade, then their assessment strategies suck. Here, a single fail on an assignment will not necessarily fail a grade, but it will require them to pull their finger out and work harder to make up for it. I see no problem with that at all. I've seen my son fail assignments for EXACTLY what you are talking about, heck, I've had calls from teachers about assignments I thought he had done, and I am absolutely amazed at how well he is doing with his organisation as a result of that experience last year. And lo and behold.....I never had to turn up to his school. I just had to let him fail once as a result of his poor organisation.



And yes, it KILLED me to let it happen like that, but in my view, that was a far better lesson than me turning up to class.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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I was resting my case on how we each have our own opinion of what humiliation is. That's all, Jenny. Since, I don't think taking their door off is humiliating. I think it is a consequence, that they are aware of, if they destroy property within the home they live. You slam a door at work and your going to get a talking to by your HR manager. That can be humiliating. ;)

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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"I didn't say I will be in her class," MeMe Really? Because less than 10 minutes ago you said...

"I WOULD go to her class. Actually, it is something I WILL be doing next week, if she fails to bring her assignment home this week." MeMe

Jenny - posted on 05/08/2012

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"So, I rest my case." -MeMe



OMG you are impossible. What case is this exactly?



"I simply stated that if you are not in the actual position, it is one thing to have a theory (which is great, it means you have thought about it) it is another to be there and have to make a decision.



Is this your case?



Obviously theory and practice are different, I am not disputing that, I never did.



"Sometimes, what you truly believe in or your values/morals, have to slightly change in order to ensure everybody involved is getting what they need."

I think I agree with this. I would then have different values/morals which would not prohibit me from doing what I previously thought I would never do.



"Sometimes, when you have tried everything, you have to get creative to show you are not going to give up"

I do not agree with this.

I believe that you do not have to get creative in a way that goes against your core values.



Truly, to me, once my kids are teens, if i still feel like taking their door down is humiliating and a violation of their privacy, I will not take down their door I would let them slam it and risk it costing me $150, even if i did not have the money to replace it.



I'm sorry if you cannot believe that I would do that under all circumstances. Maybe if I loose my mind under a totally impossible situation and I end up doing it, fine. But I would still not be okay with having done that, I would put it back up once I have calmed down and had a chance to reconnect with my decision to value the teenagers privacy, to the point of not taking down their door. I still would not agree with it, even if I do end up doing it, but I hope that my core value to not do it would over ride any situation, no matter how difficult it is.



Its your word against mine so you can "rest your case" in your own head, but know that your case is not rested, from my point of view, obviously.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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Jodi---So, if your daughter doesn't bring her assignment home, you can't just continue to remind her and let her suffer the natural consequences of not doing so, or pick her up from school and have her go back to her locker and collect it or something. You choose to turn up to her class and humiliate her?

I have been trying this. I even text her while she is at school. I am not sure why she keeps forgetting, other than that she is very unorganized. She says she just gets all mixed up. I refuse to pick her up and tell her to go and get it. I would then have to do this everyday.

I didn't say I will be in her class, I will be at her school, inside, where she can bring me to her locker. She needs to get her locker organized, she has been told, I will be there to help her do this. If she does NOT want me there, then she needs to remember to bring her things home.

Can I say there is something to be said for allowing your child to get a fail on an assignment because they weren't sufficiently responsible to bring it home and get it done?

It is not just one subject. Currently, it is three. If she fails three, she fails the grade. She is an A,B student. Her last report card (2 weeks ago) was the same, it has never changed. The past 4 weeks, she has become very lazy with getting her stuff done. I don't want her to learn by failing the whole grade. I prefer to try to go and help her, even if it is something she does not want. Since I guarentee, she does not understand the implications of failing grade 7. In the end, she would be more appreciative that I went, then to be humiliated to have to re-do grade 7.

This is my train of thought anyhow...

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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"Sorry, no hypocritical statements. You just did not comprehend what I was writing accurately."

You are right, sometimes your posts can be very confusing, so I will absolutely agree that I was confused and possibly didn't understand where you were going with it.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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So, if your daughter doesn't bring her assignment home, you can't just continue to remind her and let her suffer the natural consequences of not doing so, or pick her up from school and have her go back to her locker and collect it or something. You choose to turn up to her class and humiliate her?

Can I say there is something to be said for allowing your child to get a fail on an assignment because they weren't sufficiently responsible to bring it home and get it done?

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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How about this. Define Public Humiliation and Humiliation. Define Logical Consequences and the difference's. Perhaps that is the issue here.



Actually, Jodi, my comment was in regard to me not having to employ any act according to Kelly's definition. I have a different definition.



Hell, I have not had to do this myself, by Kelly's definition. I have never degraded my children nor have I ever made them feel low about themselves. I do not walk around calling them names or making fools out of them. I would not announce their negative behaviour to everyone or anyone for that matter.



I have jumped on my kids bus. To me that was NOT pubic humiliation. To Kelly, it appears it was. I WOULD go to her class. Actually, it is something I WILL be doing next week, if she fails to bring her assignment home this week. To ME that is not humiliation.



Sorry, no hypocritical statements. You just did not comprehend what I was writing accurately.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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Actually, I removed the door when my son was 5 because he was damaging the door jamb and the cupboard behind his door with his continued slamming and after warning him, I removed it for a few days. He wasn't a teen.

Would I do it now? Maybe, maybe not. I've never had to face that decision with regard to my teenagers. The only one I have since contemplated the issue with since is my 7 year old. I have warned her about it. She hasn't slammed a door since (in about 12 months now). So I haven't had to resort to it. She is welcome to express her anger, but not in ways that destroy property that belongs to others. She rants and raves in her bedroom to get her frustration out, but she no longer slams doors because she understand and appreciates that it isn't an acceptable way of venting her frustrations. That's fine - she can rant and rave all she likes in her room in private.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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So you are also only commenting in theory then, MeMe? Because you've never had to employ these tactics with your teen yet, but you would if you had to. So theoretically, you have no issue with it. From a practical perspective, however, you have never been there either. So I think it is rather hypocritical to tell other people they have no idea because they've never been there. Well, neither have you, if I am to understand correctly.

Personally, I think if you have to resort to deliberately humiliating your child, you've RUN OUT of creative ideas. There's nothing creative about public humiliation. That's my opinion.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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Jenny---Actually Jodi has said she has and would do some of the things listed. She has removed the door, YOU think that is humiliation. She does not, neither do I.



I think the problem here is we all have a different opinion of what humiliation is. So, I rest my case. Regardless of what anyone says, none of us are on the same page of what we each define it as. Thus, making it very difficult to understand one another and each opinion.



ETA:

The issue is when someone says they do employ or would employ any of the listed items in the OP. Some people find it appropriate to jump on their high horse and make statements like "It is only going to ruin your relationship", "It is only going to make them resent the parent" and so on. So, I give examples of what I have employed and then read opinions that are pretty much saying, if anyone does these things, they are not going to have a relationship with their child. I am saying, that is not true. Until you have been there and understand how these things are employed, you would NOT have a clue. ;)



Even Jodi said, she has a great relationship with her children. She has used logical consequence but to YOU that was humiliation. So, again, theory for you, tried and true for her.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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You're absolutely correct. I never said no one is allowed to say whatever they choose. This is what makes DM so interesting. I truly enjoy reading everyone's different views. However, it is one thing to give a view, it is another to be so sure of yourself, when you have not been in that position. So, as for the abortion statement. Nope, have never had an abortion but I have been raped. I did have to make a decision on what I was going to do IF I was pregnant. So, I have been in the postion of making that very decision. ;)

Anyhow, I think you are getting carried away with this. I simply stated that if you are not in the actual position, it is one thing to have a theory (which is great, it means you have thought about it) it is another to be there and have to make a decision. Sometimes, what you truly believe in or your values/morals, have to slightly change in order to ensure everybody involved is getting what they need. Sometimes, when you have tried everything, you have to get creative to show you are not going to give up.

I am not saying that anyone or everyone, will have to, at some point, employ public humiliation. Hell, I have not had to do this myself, by Kelly's definition. I have never degraded my children nor have I ever made them feel low about themselves. I do not walk around calling them names or making fools out of them. I would not announce their negative behaviour to everyone or anyone for that matter.

Although, I would discipline them, if we were in public and it was required (which is my definition of public humiliation). I also would go to their school and sit in on their classes, if they were skipping and nothing else was solving the issue. This doesn't mean my child has to tell anyone why I was there. Maybe I am there because I am doing a study. Who the hell knows, right? You know, I WISH my Mom would have done just that. By the time I was in grade 8, I was skipping class consistently. I was supposed to graduate in 1994, I didn't graduate until 2001! I would have loved someone to have shown they cared about me and my future, even if I didn't like it at the time. It would have shown my mother had commitment to me. Rather she just insulted me and told me I was a failure and an idiot.

Humiliation has a long line. It has a low end and a high end. Humiliation IS embarressment. There are many levels of embarressment and yes, it can turn into abuse. The ONLY act in the OP that fit this category, is the wearing of the sign, IMO. That IS degrading. That IS abuse. All the other's shows the parents give a shit about their kids and they tried everything else. Yes, I know, it does not state whether they tried anything else but I really believe they did the extreme because things were at there extreme. At least, it is the only time I would do any of them (minus the sign wearing). These things are way better than kicking their asses into submission. They are way better than stealing their confidence and self esteem. They aren't done ritually. I think that is pretty obvious, that a parent, a loving parent, is not out to get their child. They are trying to get through to them. Which is not always a walk in the park when they are teens. Sure, sometimes, you get lucky (as I have) and don't ever have to or may have once or twice. Although, be damn sure if it means saving my kid from a life filled with extreme hardships, I am almost willing to do anything (that isn't degrading them or forcing them into submission) to help them learn a valuable lesson. Such as make them use a wheel chair. If my kid was found screwing around, I just may use this one. However, my first reaction would be to take their license and the vehicle, then make them retake defensive driving. Though, I am not at this stage yet, so I cannot say for certain what I would do. I'll let you know in 2 years but hopefully, my girls driving is acceptable and she is mature about it. ;)

So, in closing, I have no issue with someone's opinion, just don't try and make it sound that those that say they would use creative discipline, which may be a form of humiliation (on the low or middle end) means they are screwing their kids up. This IS where I take offense. Simply because I care about my kids and I am not screwing them up. I am ensuring they don't make a deadly or such a negative decision that it will affect the better part of their young lives.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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"Also, taking care or relating to a teen every once in a while is not the same as them living under your roof everyday, all day." So what of parents with joint custody? Like I said, my niece is with me at least one day nearly every weekend, and 3 or 4 days every week in the summer. That is more time than some parents get to see their children with joint custody. So they can't relate to you either? This is waht I'm saying MeMe, no one position is the same as yours, obviously, no one is contesting that. But you continually point out how no one else can relate to you or BE in the same position and insinuating that they really don't know anything about parenting a teen (in this instance).



"I fail to see where I said I do not feel their opinion is worthy. I just feel that it is not for sure, when you have yet to be in that situation. IDK, I hear many of you say, "well I am not in that position, so I cannot say for sure"...." Not being sure about giving advice or something is NOT the same as saying that someones opinion is not *appropriate* (YOUR word, not mine) on a debating forum. That is where I got that from. If an opinion, on a debating is not appropriate because someone isn't in the exact same position as you, then we should all just go home.



Oh, and I don't just get up and walk away because someone or something is annoying. What I said was, if you're going to be telling others their opinions aren't appropriate, then maybe you're in the wrong spot...it's a debating forum, ALL opinions are appropriate, it's what we're here for. To offer our opinions. Have you had an abortion? If not, why would ever say anything in any thread about abortions? I've seen you in those threads offering up opinions, and I'm pretty sure you've stated you've never had one. We are here to share our opinions, on ANY topic. To claim it's inappropriate for any member in this community to share their opinion is just...I dont' even know what. Ridiculous I guess.



ETA:"now you don't like what I said and you are going to contradict that everyone needs to be fine with what other's say? Meh." I never said you had to be fine with what others said, I never said you had to like what others say, I said they're allowed to say it, and one would think they're allowed to say it without someone be so disrespectful as to tell them their opinion is inappropriate. Obviously I'm wrong.

[deleted account]

You are right, I have changed my parenting techniques in the past, but you must remember that I learned a very valuable lesson from that. I am still growing as a parent, and I will learn and use different techniques as J continues to grow, however, I will never again employ a form of discipline that goes against my core values as a parent.

I am assuming that you are talking about the time I spanked J when he was 2 and a half. I thought I would NEVER spank my son, but in the midst of his "terrible twos" and very harsh peer pressure from family and friends, I caved and hit him. It was the worst thing I could have ever done for him--his behavior quickly spiraled out of control, he became continuously angry and detached. My once happy little boy quickly transformed into a sad, angry, combative, little being who felt it was him against the world.

I am not going to debate spanking here--some parents employ it, and I have no problem with that, but it is NOT for our family. Spanking went against my core parenting ideals and values, and I learned when I tried it that I was right to begin with, I should never have sacrificed my values to cave to society's expectations of me as a parent. I will never employ a parenting tool that goes against my core values again, and humiliation goes against my values, so I can safely say, I will not be trying it.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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Jodi---What I am saying is it is difficult to question someone's practice when you have not reached the milestone yet yourself.



Also, taking care or relating to a teen every once in a while is not the same as them living under your roof everyday, all day.



Kelly--- If I may add, you have changed how you have parented in the past. You used to employ a humiliating punishment but you changed your views. Why? You realized it was inappropriate and not the best method. So, I fail to see how you can sit here and say you would never do something, when you, yourself, have changed how you parent before. Again, a theory is great. However, no one can say it won't change, ever.



And for the record, Kelly, I think you are a great Mom too. Thank you for the compliment. ;)



ETA:

Jodi--If you don't want others to discuss your opinion, or you're not interested in hearing someone elses opinion because YOU deem their experience isn't worthy of discussion...go somewhere else. You make statements like this ALL the time, and not just this thread. It's getting really annoying.



I guess I am oblivious. I am not taking any of this personally. I have taken things personally in the past because they were made personal. They were directed at me, they were not staying within their opinion of the OP or my opinion but rather insinuating ignorant remarks.



Besides Jodi, I am not going to give anyone the pleasure of going somewhere else. I mean seriously, like you said, this is a debating form. So, now you don't like what I said and you are going to contradict that everyone needs to be fine with what other's say? Meh.



I fail to see where I said I do not feel their opinion is worthy. I just feel that it is not for sure, when you have yet to be in that situation. IDK, I hear many of you say, "well I am not in that position, so I cannot say for sure"....



I know this OP was not just about teens but it is what it turned into. It is what we have been discussing.



I did not say no one can discuss my opinion but if they are going to add incorrect information or twist what has been said, yes, I do have an issue with that. I do not twist statements. I try my best to go on what is being presented. Yes, sometimes perception changes what was meant. That is a fact of how you present your opinion, which at times, I may fail to do well, as well.



If it is getting annoying Jodi, then perhaps you need to "go somewhere else". How do you like that? Thanks BTW.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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Kelly---I disagree that donating toys to charity is a form of public humiliation though.



Yes, you are correct. I should have stated humiliation, not "public" humiliation. I am not humiliated either when handing things over. That was an incorrect way for me to describe it.



ETA: I'm going by the clinical definition of humiliation--forcing a person into a degraded position in the presence of an audience or witness (this includes audiences that are not physically present, like people who would read a story in a news paper, or see a humiliating Youtube post)..



But what defines a degraded position? See, I do feel there was public discipline when I jumped on my daughter's bus to give her her coat (not sure about humiliation). Although, she said she was not humiliated. So, I am unsure of how a person, outside of the person it is occurring to, knows what this is fully. Although, some actions are obvious, such as sign wearing and/or video creations. Of course, when I decided to jump in my truck and race like a mad woman to her bus, I was not thinking of "Oh, I cannot wait to humiliate you", I was only thinking of how she deliberately left her coat when it was minus 15 out. The only way I could nip it in the bud right there and then was to get on her bus. Otherwise, I risked her freezing, her thinking it was OK to do (that I would not do anything until later) and having CPS called. Which, btw, is not just a simple, come and check out your house. They come to your house, they go to their school, they ask for a second reference such as a family doctor, friend or relative AND they come back to follow up (I know as I have a friend that works for CPS). I wasn't willing to risk that over a coat. I was willing to risk her being embarrassed and get the hint, she cannot take off - knowing full well - that she needs a coat in the middle of winter and that it is a rule in our home. She does have recess and lunch recess outside.

[deleted account]

Crap, I just accidentally deleted this post. Sorry. I don't have time to retype it all though, it wasn't really important anyway.

[deleted account]

I am not saying you have to donate the toys, if you don't want to, that's fine. J doesn't get his back if I take them away. If you want to give your son his toys back, that's up to you.



I disagree that donating toys to charity is a form of public humiliation though. I have never been embarrassed when handing over things to charity. Also, the people receiving the donated toys are not going to know he is donating them because he was disrespectful, they are just going to take the toys and thank him for his kindness. He may feel internal shame, but that is different, that is a shortcoming to his own expectations and will just encourage him to try harder next time. Now, if I were to take him to the shelter and announce to every one that we were there because he was disrespectful and threw his toys in a temper tantrum fit for a 2 year old, that would be public humiliation, because the purpose is to make OTHERS think less of him. I would never do that.



ETA: I'm going by the clinical definition of humiliation--forcing a person into a degraded position in the presence of an audience or witness (this includes audiences that are not physically present, like people who would read a story in a news paper, or see a humiliating Youtube post)..

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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I agree with giving the toys to charity, I do this often with all of our household items. However, currently when I take my boys toys away, it is not a permanent thing. He loses them for a while. I do not see purpose in taking them for good. He is learning. He does not need to be reprimanded forever. He may be using it to show his aggression but he is also learning what happens when he throws a toy, how gravity works. It does not mean, in 24 hours he will not be fine with having them and not throw them. He would have no clue what bringing them to charity meant.



I have also spent a lot of money on them and they are toys for his age. He needs them for learning. Just one of those uses, he finds, is to toss them when not happy. Before I take them away though, I explain to him with few words, that it is not right to throw. I distract him and get him focused on something else. If he does it again, yes, they are mine until the next day or two.



He is too young to understand that we are giving his toys - of which is the only thing he has to throw - away because he tosses them down the stairs. Now, if he was 2.5 or older, absolutely. He could come and help donate them as well. Which, you know, is a form of humiliation. He is having to give HIS toys away because he does not use them appropriately.



I do not think that if you do not humiliate your child you are being passive. That is not where i got that from. I got that from you continuously using the frame of mind to discuss and help them find a better way. All I am saying is sometimes, discussing will not work. I then wonder what you do, or would do. Where you did not provide any further actions or consequences I must assume, all you want to do it discuss their actions. Perhaps, I am not right, I dunno. Privilege loss is a great thing too, I know you do that. However, it does not always work either. Which to add, your bedroom door IS a privilege. Not everyone has a door and it is NOT a basic necessity of life.





Well, it was lunch time but now it is over....:(



ETA:

Again, everyone's form of humiliation is different. What you think it means, may not be what I think it means. Or it might be the same. However, I would never go to the extreme. I would never make a YouTube video nor would I make them wear a sign. So, yes, I may call them out in public if that is where we happen to be but I wouldn't exactly go out of my way, to do so.

[deleted account]

Also, I do NOT think that because you are willing to implement discipline strategies that I am not willing to use, that you are only looking for the bad. I read a lot of your posts on here and I think you are a great mom, we just happen to disagree on whether it's okay to humiliate our kids or not. Nothing you can say will change my mind on this subject, I will never intentionally humiliate J, but if you feel you need to humiliate your child on occasion to get your point across, I have no problem with that.

Just as you feel that I think you are only "looking for the bad", you seem convinced that unless I humiliate my child on occasion I am being passive, and not enforcing any consequences for his actions. Just as you know that you employ positive discipline as well as humiliation, I want you to realize that just because I do not employ humiliation does not mean I don't employ other methods of discipline and consequence.

[deleted account]

Meme, I was responding to this comment:



"At 18 months, they could careless what you do with their toys. Out of site out of mind. I could see this for a 2.5+ child but not an 18 month old. My son wouldn't a clue of what I was doing with his toys, nor would he care." --meme



Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. I took the last sentence, where you said that your son wouldn't have a clue what you were doing and would not care to mean that you thought the discipline method would not work for an 18 month old. I was simply stating that I had used it with a one year old and it worked.



It doesn't matter if you take the toys a way and stock them in the garage or donate them to charity. I choose to donate because I don't see the point in leaving them to rot away in the garage when kids who are truly needy can use them, but if prefer your's to sit in the garage, then it really makes no difference in the terms of the discipline. I also like the added lesson about sharing and giving to those with less, though not related to disrespecting the toys, it's still a valuable lesson.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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I will add though, that I have been congratulated by doctors and coworkers on how I am so patient, yet get my point across with my daughter. I have often had coworkers come to me and ask me how I do it. They hear me talking to my daughter and cannot believe how well I handle situations with her.

I have documentation from ADHD specialists, stating how well I discipline and manage my daughter.

I highly doubt I have created any negative feelings with her. I have simply ensured she is respected, heard and understood at all times, while still employing methods that guide her in the right direction. While, expecting the same in return from her. As I expect from anyone, for that matter. ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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Kelly---That said, I did begin employing that technique when he was only one year, and by the time he was 2.5, he was not throwing his toys anymore, so it works, even for an 18 month old.



Sorry but I do not agree. I could put his toys in the garage and it would work too. Which is what I do. See, once there are no toys to throw, he can't throw them now can he? Same difference as giving them away, except I have spent a lot of money on his toys.



Kelly---I don't give up that easily. I will work with him to find a better way to "escape" or vent his frustration and anger until we find a way that works for him. I can understand that he is not intentionally trying to break the door, he needs an outlet and it is my job as his parent to provide him one. I fail to see how it is beneficial to take away his privacy because he is angry or frustrated about something.



Right, now in the future I may have to take her door. However, no where did I say, I gave up. I never said I would not still work with her to figure out a better avenue. I simply want to keep my door. ;) She can get changed in the bathroom. No biggie on privacy. She also has the rec room, which is hers. So, she can still go and hide when she wants. I do not give up, ever, actually. I continue to work with my children.



Unfortunately, I think that because I will impose certain consequence, you are automatically assuming I either only look for the bad things OR I give up. If that was the case, I would not have a very well rounded child, that is utterly happy and very confident in who she is.



I believe things are being misconstrued here, therefore, I am going back to work. Have a nice day ladies. ;)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/08/2012

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Jodi---And she also does not get spanked, yelled at, or publicly humiliated, and she never will.

My children neither. I am unsure of why this is a part of your explanation. Anyhow, my kids have never ever been spanked, seldomly yelled at (I am not going to lie, I have yelled before, I have apologized for it as well) and as for public humiliation, I guess it depends on what that means to you. If me jumping on my daughter's bus to give her her coat, is public humiliation to you, then I suppose I have done this. Only the one time but would do it again if the situation presented itself.

Seriously, kids are basically good people. We just need to find the best in them and build on that, rather than finding the worst in them and bringing them down. I can honestly count on my hand in any month the number of times I even raise a voice in this house.

Oh, this is absolutely true! I have said this more than I can count here on COM. Kids are not born bad. They truly want to be good. I truly believe this, for every single one of them.

However, there are times a parent needs to promote boundaries, kids craves them. Without them, they will not win, they will fail. Otherwise, they wouldn't need parents to guide them, just providing the basics of life would be enough. ;)

i am not debating a good kid and bad kid here. I am simply stating that when a certain way does not work, sometimes you need to switch gears and figure out what does. Sometimes, that may include a bit of embarrassment and/or sadness. No person, including a child is happy to be disciplined.

My daughter is an exceptional kid compared to most of her friends. She is an angel compared to what I was. She has way more good qualities than faults and we all have faults. She is a teen though and she does need a little heavier of a foot, than when she was say 12.

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"Seriously, kids are basically good people. We just need to find the best in them and build on that, rather than finding the worst in them and bringing them down." Jodi

Jodi, I LOVE that statement!! That is a perfect little mantra to keep in mind when trying to figure out how to discipline particular offenses. Thanks!

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Meme, I never said he was 18 months when I got rid of his toys when he threw them--I've actually kept that rule throughout his childhood, and the rule still applies in our house even though he is 7 now. That said, I did begin employing that technique when he was only one year, and by the time he was 2.5, he was not throwing his toys anymore, so it works, even for an 18 month old.

"OK, how about when you have talked to them numerous times. Tried to work with them for a better escape. Now what? Just going to keep doing the same thing?" Meme

I don't give up that easily. I will work with him to find a better way to "escape" or vent his frustration and anger until we find a way that works for him. I can understand that he is not intentionally trying to break the door, he needs an outlet and it is my job as his parent to provide him one. I fail to see how it is beneficial to take away his privacy because he is angry or frustrated about something.

Jodi - posted on 05/08/2012

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"I actually have the exact same values and thought process as them in many ways BUT having a teen, I have definitely had to slightly veer off my theories and invoke other discipline. "

But I am betting that your parenting is NOT going against any of your really basic values. These parents here have voiced their basic values, and the fact is, those basic values show up in the decisions you make as a parent. So if these things are very much something they hold at the core of their value system, then no, having teens won't change that. They will just explore other options within those same values that work for them.

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