Universal health care - thoughts?

Janice - posted on 10/10/2011

OK, I think I'm finally caught up! My brain is muck but
I must say THANK YOU Angela B and Johnny for being so well informed.
As someone who came from a poor family and is trying to make my way up and not getting very far this is my simplistic thought of socialism vs. capitalism. Socialist care about society while capitalist care about money. As humans we are social creatures, it is part of what makes us human. Obviously there are flaws with absolute socialism - people should be rewarded for hard work but those who are against basic social systems like UHC are animals.

Jenni - posted on 10/10/2011

Yup, my FIL and Grandmother had knee surgery too and didn't have to wait. My grandmother got in right away as soon as she returned from Florida. My FIL waited but that was by choice. He didn't want the surgery until he returned from his vacation (because he didn't want to be recovering from surgery on his vacation!) They both got therapy and a home care nurse all for FREE.

Tara - posted on 10/10/2011

Yet another example.
I have a 53 year old friend, she had one of her knees replaced last year.
She had her consult with the surgeon in May her surgery in July. Now she just went last week to see him about the other knee, he booked her in for surgery the first week of November. Not much of a wait time, and she won't pay a dime. Titanium knees too,, state of the art.

Cathy - posted on 10/10/2011

£49 to pull a wisdom tooth on the NHS!

Nikki - posted on 10/10/2011

I have never had to wait for anything and I don't recall anyone in my family or anyone I know ever complaining about having to wait for treatment. I really think some people just like to complain, even when there isn't really a problem. I had what was considered to be elective surgery at the beginning of the year and I only had to wait 2-3 weeks.

Jenn - posted on 10/10/2011

Kelly - dental is about the same here. We have coverage through Brian's work, so I only pay 20%. I had a cleaning done last week and it cost me $30 out of pocket.

Kelly - posted on 10/10/2011

Dental is not covered under health insurance in the US either, but you can buy private dental insurance in addition to most health insurance plans. Dental here is not expensive though--a root canal, oral surgery, and stuff like that is pricey, but cleanings are only about $150-$200, and you can usually get a tooth pulled or filled for under $500--the insurance policies cost more.

The thing is, the few things I hear all of you who have UHC plans complain about in your UHC system are the same things we complain about here with our private system. When J was diagnosed with insomnia, I had to wait 9 weeks for an appointment with an infant sleep specialist, and 2 months for the neurologist. I don't think it would be much different, except everyone would have access....

Nikki - posted on 10/10/2011

Jen, it's exactly the same in Aus. There was talk about including it in Medicare, which I really hope they do. Dental is so expensive.

Jenn - posted on 10/10/2011

Emma - we don't have dental coverage in Canada either, unless it's an emergency that would be treated in hospital for some reason, although kids can get free dental and low income earners can get emergency dental work covered.

Toni - posted on 10/10/2011

What a piece of work, I truly hope you're never in a situation where you can't afford treatment and your only other option is death Angela J. Your lack of compassion and downright bitchiness absolute disgusts me!

Stifler's - posted on 10/10/2011

The only thing I hate about the system in Aus is that dental isn't covered. Dental is really expensive unless you have it as an extra on your private health and not everyone is entitled to state dental with a huge waiting list.

Jenn - posted on 10/10/2011

Also, just to add to the others: I do NOT wait for appointments. I do NOT go without services or treatments. I recently found out at my eye exam that I have cataracts (yep - I'm only 34!!!!) and now next week I will be seeing an opthamolagist to further investigate. Without this being covered, it isn't something I could afford and I would probably have to let it go and risk losing my eyesight. So yeah, I LOVE UHC! And when I had my son and had to spend 5 days in the hospital it cost me NOTHING! And when I had my twins and had to go to countless appointments, it cost me NOTHING! And yes, I realize it actually cost something, because we pay taxes, but the taxes we pay are much less than the cost of your taxes plus insurance premiums. And I don't have to worry about if that Dr is covered by my policy - because they ALL are!

Jenn - posted on 10/10/2011

Here's what I don't understand about the opposition to UHC. Right now you pay into your insurance and the company makes a profit off of it. With UHC you would pay into your insurance (likely paying LESS) and the "company" wouldn't make a profit off of it. So - what part isn't being understood? Do you like paying more? Do you like your fellow citizens to be left in the cold? Do you like your private insurance company to profit from you? Explain please.

Karla - posted on 10/10/2011

Sorry, I’m trying to read through these posts, but I just happened upon something from a day ago, but 200 posts ago, that I must respond to.



From Angela Jensen: “The cost of a life in a wrongful death is $1-3 million dollars, so if life is worth so much than why are you complaining about a fraction of that to save your life? It seems to me that you are getting a good deal. …



“I fail to see how you believe it is moral to plunder from others because you have experienced hardship, that sounds to me more like theft.



“Compassion is voluntary.”



Is it cold in here, or is it just me?



Look Angela J., Kelly has already shared with all of us, in a way I find commendable, that if her cancer returns she will likely die. Do you even get what that means? She will likely leave her son, because NO FREAKING INSURANCE COMPANY WILL COVER HER! Do you understand what that means?



Compassion

com•pas•sion  [kuhm-pash-uhn]

noun

1. a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.



It’s not just about money Angela J, and you showed absolutely no compassion with your comment. I am shocked.



What IS immoral is to allow people to be treated as animals who are no longer cost effective, and that is exactly what corporate insurance companies in the US are doing.



And ”There are other ways than to make all (including those who do not want it) pay into a UHC. Make it an option. If you buy into it you receive it. If you don't buy into it then you don't get it.”



Someone probably addressed this already, but that’s not how UHC works… it only works if everyone is included so that healthy strong workers contribute – not to worry they should reap the benefits one day when they are struck with injury or illness.



And ”To rob from some to pay for all is wrong. If and when a tragedy hits me or my family I will not expect the rest of the country to save me.”



And yet I don’t think of it as robbery, and I would like to have a system where I know my tax dollars are going to help the real life situation that Kelly has and the abstract situation that you present for yourself. You frame it as robbery, but that’s not what it is.



There’s a big difference in everyone eating at the pot luck, and everyone bringing their own lunch – but the difference is NOT robbery – the difference is that everyone gets a 4 course meal with the pot luck, and only half do with the sack lunch. Mkay? (That doesn’t even address the corporate slice from the sack lunch.)



And

“I don't expect to change your minds, I know that your mind is made up. There are many however who just sit and read the posts that are making up their mind and I hope that I might provide one of them with a differing opinion that might be in line with their values.”



That’s exactly why I’m posting as well, small world.

Angela - posted on 10/10/2011

Aussie sound like they have great care
over here their is anywhere from 1-2 year wait list for mental health care... a shame really but true. The rest the wait list are not long at all. I can get same day appts at the GP and the specialist go by priority, I can be seen right away if needed or longer if the problem is minor. Surgeries are not long to wait for also.
I only have a few complaints with prenatal and delivery care and mental health is very bad.

Angela - posted on 10/10/2011

Angela J

So basically you got lucky and found a man who had a home and health insurance options for you and your children. I am not saying that is bad and I applaud your way of staying out of debt etc.

But you have to realise judging others by your circumstances is not the way to go. Keep an open mind when you see people in debt. How did they get into debt. Grant it some just were irresponsible but not all. If you have to save your child's life and all you have is a credit card you will use it. In fact most parents would give up their life for their child to survive.

Having your own home, and health insurance is a hell of a leg up over the struggling single parent who has no credit or money for a home , pays rent, has not debt, and has to pay for family coverage. How do I know I was that person.

I lived pay check to pay check and went hungry plenty of days so my kids could eat. The only debt I had was medical bill and this was while I attended university and worked. I never had any family help or hands outs. Rarely did a church or charity give a darn about my situation as a single Mom of two.

True story: I saved up enough money to get an apartment. I had also saved enough money to get the electricity turned on. I did not have a car or the money for a cab to get to the power Dept to pay for my service. I called all kinds of organisations including the American red cross, and united way and all I asked for was for a ride to the power dept. That was it. I did not ask for one dime. Not one person or organisation helped me and my little babies.

My family and I went with out heat, lights an ove etc for a month and half in October-November when it does get cold. Not one person helped us not one! So I have little faith in charity.

It sounds like my story could have been yours Angela but you got lucky and found a man take care of you and your children. I had to pay my own way a single Mom, this means I had to get an education and the cost money and the entire time I had to pay medical bills until I found a job that offered health care. Most jobs would work me just under full time so they did not have to offer insurance. So I worked 2-3 jobs at any give time.

Finally I graduated and got a job as a nurse, I made very low wages but not low enough once again to get any help from Medicaid, food stamps etc. So I once again had to work over full time to just have Kaiser Health insurance plan and it cost me half my pay check from the hospital I worked at. I still had co pays, rent, etc to pay after that so I worked every extra shift I could and my kids never saw me.

To top it all off soon my student loans needed to be paid and well I went in default at one time. That meant I had no credit. So I was stuck in my shitty apt with cock roaches and rapes being committed in the laundry room. I did not dare not pay my insurance or my preemie sick child would not get the extra care she needed to survive.

I have a hard time believing you have no compassion I just think you do not see outside your box and have been feed a bunch of rubbish.

If their is a better way to cover everyone for health care and make it equal access than I say come up with it to you and all the politicians against UHC. So far any other plans you and they have come up with fall very short of coverage for everyone.

I also want to add that you and your family pay little taxes at this time. So I am not sure what extra they could give back to you so you could pay your own bills for school and health care. How much state tax do you pay? Can it really cover all those choices you want with out government participation?

I agree the less government involvement the better but no government involvement is not possible now or later. You do not have to worry of the nation becoming socialist, it wont' happen due to UHC. The fact is more government involvement has occurred and constitutional changes due to the war esp. during the Bush Administration (since 9/11)than any other time I can think of including now. These are the changes you should worry of taking your civil liberties and freedoms away.

Becky - posted on 10/10/2011

Not to mention that we have free mental health clinics, free services for children with disabilities, and if I have a concern regarding my child's sleep, diet, speech, or development, I can call public health and speak to someone about any of those for free. And we have a Children's Health network that offers all kinds of education sessions for parents and professionals on pretty much every topic related to children and adolescents imaginable, for free. And all my kids' vaccinations are free. Well, unless they're not typical ones, like for travel.

I am quite happy with my tax dollars going towards supporting a mom with post partum depression or a family whose child was born with Down's Syndrome. I'm very thankful that when we were told that there was a chance our baby might have Downs that we were able to say, "We would keep the baby regardless" because we knew that we would have access to all the medical care and resources he would need here and that it would not put us into the poor house to care for him. How many parents would list financial concerns regarding health care and support as reasons for choosing to terminate a pregnancy where a child has special needs? I bet in the US, it's a factor for quite a few! That is, if they can even afford to get the testing to determine whether their child will have special needs or not!

Georgia - posted on 10/10/2011

OH oh oh... I forgot about not getting treated for things that aren't "on the list".



50 is the age for mammograms here in Australia. They advertise that you can start getting your free mammograms at age 50 from any Breastscreen place. Well, what they don't tell you is that if you ring up and make an appointment you can still get the mammogram and it's still FREE. I had to start having them from 40 years old, so I rang up (with NO referral) and made an appointment (fully willing to pay). After my appointment I asked how much it was, and the poor lady must have thought I'd lost my mind. She just shrugged and said, "Pay for what? There is no fee for mammograms."



I also had a colonoscopy at age 31 for free because it was requested by my GP. So the idea of not getting testing that's needed is beyond ludicrous.

Georgia - posted on 10/10/2011

Ohhh... Becky, you're right! I forgot about the after hours care! I can ring a number and get a doctor to come to my HOME after hours for FREE!

Sucks to be us and our lack of choices, doesn't it? Oh, but I suppose we are subject to those death panels... whatever they are!

Georgia - posted on 10/10/2011

I think she should come to Australia on a business visa and get overseas visitor cover. It'd be a damnside cheaper (and no jail time involved) and she could go on an overseas holiday every 3 months. :-)

Hmm... not sure I like that accessory thing. One of my passports says I'm still a yank. :-\ Ah well, at least it'd be a free trip AND free healthcare! Come and get me, fuckers!

Becky - posted on 10/10/2011

Just a word about my "lack of choice" under UHC. On any given day, if we have a health concern, we can:

1. Go to our family doctor, who we really like

2. Go to the walk-in clinic, which is located in our family doctor's office, so they have all our files.

3. Go to another walk-in closer to our home

4. Go to Urgent care

5. Go to the ER at the university hospital or Children's hospital, both which are within 15 minutes of our house. Or one of the other hospitals in our city.

6. Call my midwife, 24/7 if it's pregnancy related.

7. Call our health-link line 24/7 if I'm not sure what we should do.

8. Make an appointment at an after-hours clinic if it's not urgent enough for the ER but too urgent to wait until the dr.'s office reopens.

9. Call my son's pediatrician

10. Do nothing

11. Call 911



Yikes, I really am lacking choices! Guess I'd better move down to the US where I can pay through the nose for all those options instead of having equal access to any of them for the exact same price of 0 dollars.

Sneaky - posted on 10/09/2011

Ahmmm, I would like to point out that if Kelly's cancer does come back and she is compelled to commit a crime to go to jail and get free health care (particularly a federal crime like bank robbery), we could, in theory, all be considered accessories for conspiracy.......not that I care, try to extradite me you heartless, money hungry country!!

Georgia - posted on 10/09/2011

BTW, small business owners usually DO get the cheapest plan they can... As do most employers in general! It's frikkin' expensive benefit to pay for! (Yup, been in that position too)

Georgia - posted on 10/09/2011

This is a problem that's been around for decades, but it's nice to fnally see it at the front of people's minds.

It's also nice to see that the LDS elders are doing such a bang up job at brainwashing their congregations! I have a friend from high school who spouts all the same crap as Angela J... Almost verbatim! What is ironic is that he's an insurance salesman, which sort of helps to explain his stance, as misguided and full of wrong information as a FOX newscast.

I've been on almost every level of each system (US and Australian). What sort of halfwit thinks the US system is free?! It's far from it. You get what your employer gives you, and on your first day on the job you fill in all the insurance info along with your preference of GP out of an insurance provided list. If you don't like the doctor, stiff shit! Women usually also get to choose a GYN at the same time. Changing doctors is about as easy as catching a fly with your toes while blindfolded.

Heaven forbid you lose your job and COBRA is your only option. As a few have said before, it's shit and you might as well not have it and save yourself the cash. Then you become uninsured. I was uninsured in a small city with no illegals (as if that makes a difference!) and was refused service. I was even refused an ambulance ride because I was unemployed with no insurance! I know heaps of people who have been refused service. One friend was having a heart attack and transported by ambulance to a hospital that refused to take him because he had no insurance, so they drove him across the city (an hour's drive) to the county hospital.

Top notch medical care, huh? Cedars Sinai is one of these "top notch" hospitals, but I had a co-worker who's wife delivered there and they fucked it up so much that the baby was born brain damaged! The couple sued and in the course of that lawsuit found lots of other families who had the same problem. Any medical care will have times of not performing to expectations.

I've always advised friend's traveling to the US to get travel insurance because of the crippling costs. One friend didn't do it. He went scuba diving off Catalina, first dive of the day. Ended up really, seriously bent and the skipper had to call out the Coast Guard helicopter to rescue the guy. He was in such a bad way, they took him to an awaiting ambulance that transported him to the hospital chamber. He was in hospital for several weeks. While there, his parents started receiving the bills (he'd been on holiday with his parents). $15k for the flight, $600 for the ambulance and each time the doctor (a specialist) was going into the chamber with him it cost an additional $800 over the chamber visit alone ($500). That wasn't even including the hospital stay!

The Australian system isn't perfect, but what could be improved upon (dental coverage) is minor in comparison. My MIL had breast cancer diagnosed and was in surgery within about 5 days. It only took so long because her first choice of doctor wasn't available, but when she rang the doctor's office and gave her diagnosis, the scheduled was cleared as quickly as possible. She had a double mastectomy, full reconstruction and chemo... FREE! My mother had leukemia about 24 years ago, my father was insured (employer AND military). She "lived" for 18 months, mostly in the hospital, and had lots of chemo treatments. Despite having insurance and some savings, my father had to declare bankruptcy after my mother died because he couldn't afford to pay the better part of one million dollars in medical bills. If we had been living in Australia (or somewhere else with a UHC system), we wouldn't have ended up poor and bankrupt.

Our current financial situation is precarious to say the least. If we had to pay any medical costs... well, we couldn't. We are totally on the Aus UHC with no private cover anymore, but we can go to the doctor... as many as we want, free of charge. My eldest son is having nosebleed issues, so I took him to our usual clinic (I never make an appointment, just walk in and usually wait no more than 10 minutes), but I wanted a second opinion so we went to another clinic (walked in and seen within 5 minutes as a new patient) and the doc wanted a blood test. Went for the blood test and didn't pay for anything.

The only difference between the public (free) and private systems are the premiums on insurance and the ability to get money back on treatments not covered on the public system (massage, acupuncture, natropath, chiro, etc) also the private insurance will give you money back on glasses and dental... and you have the hospital option of having a private room and access to private hospitals. They aren't necessarily better than public though.

Out of all my experiences, I'll keep the Australian UHC system. We pay federal taxes and a sales tax (GST) as well as property taxes (rates), but for that we get access to free medical care as well as cheaper higher education. In Queensland, ambulances are free too.

There is one point Angela J made that I agree with. Malpractice insurance is stupid expensive! Unfortunately, I can't see a true UHC system coming into effect in the US because the insurance companies are far too entrenched into politics. It would also require a change of mindset amongst Americans to be less litigeous.

It's just disgusting the insurance companies and not actual medically certified professionals make the medical decisions for people there. A person who gets stuck with a GP they may hate will also have to fight tooth and nail to get a referral from that GP to see a specialist, even if it's necessary, because doctors don't want to be dropped by insurance companies. They may have done away with capitation fees (a GP would get a fee from the insurance company for how many referrals the doctor did NOT give out to patients), but they still do bonuses in one way or another.

UHC is the choice of freedom! Free to choose your medical provider or to choose to not have a provider. We don't pay any more in tax, in fact I think soon it will be less! (Anyone see they want to increase the tax free threshold to $21k?) Yet we have access to great healthcare and education. On top of all that, we weren't seriously affected by the GFC, have a higher minimum wage and don't have to worry about becoming destitute over doctor bills.

P.S. Kelly, I don't actually think you would be able to emigrate to Australia. They have a really strict medical screening to emigrate here and any serious medical conditions that would be deemed as a "burden on the Medicare system" is grounds for exclusion, unless you could prove that you can financially handle the cost (bear in mind that it would be cheaper here). For instance, most retired people who emigrate here have to fund their medical care. Having said that, private insurance companies have "Overseas Visitor Cover" which allows you to get medical treatment (see a doctor, hospital stays,etc) and the insurance will cover it. How that works is you usually have to pay for it, but you claim it back from insurance. When I was under it, I paid $150/month premium and would pay the doctor visit which was $60 for that particular GP. Then I'd take that receipt to the insurance company and get back $50. I'd pretty much get 80-100% of the fees for service back and it acts like private health cover, so that would apply to alternative therapies too.

Vicki - posted on 10/09/2011

The most interesting thing about the movie Sicko is that he doesn't focus on those who don't have/can't get insurance. It's all about those who did the 'right thing' and bought health insurance, then got screwed over by the companies. A health care system run by insurance corporations is not conducive to freedom.

Kate CP - posted on 10/09/2011

Frontline has done several segments on the healthcare problem in the US. All on Netflix streaming.

Nikki - posted on 10/09/2011

I have heard about Sicko, I am going to download it now. Michael Moore is slightly extreme but I do enjoy his films. After this debate last night I got no sleep, I was awake half the night, so lazy day for me, Issy is in bed so I will sit down and watch it!

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/09/2011

No offense taken Nikki, I feel the same way. As I said 15 some pages back, America might have some things going great but theres some seriously horrible parts that really need to be fixed ASAP. Before more Americans die needlessly from lack of access to healthcare.

I mean we HAVE the cures for many people! But if they can't GET these cures it's pointless to have them!

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/09/2011

Anyone interested in seeing just how messed up American healthcare is just watch the movie 'sicko' it's a documentary and it even goes over the prisoners of war on guantanomo bay who get literally, top notch healthcare. And yet heroes who risked their lives to help save people from the towers crashing who had permanent damage done to their lungs due to the air, these heroes have NO healthcare and can't get coverage now because of their preexisting conditions.
The maker of the documentary took these heroes to Cuba and they got free check ups, free tests, and pills that cost this lady $200 a piece she bought in Cuba for 5 cents!
Seriously these people got life saving treatment and drugs in CUBA! America is failing it's citizens miserably.

Nikki - posted on 10/09/2011

I am sorry if I offend any of you ladies from the US but your previous governments have royally fucked your country. They are like a bad parent with all their priorities screwed up. I am beginning to understand why lawsuits are so prevalent in the US. I really hope that sometime soon things change for the better.

Kate CP - posted on 10/09/2011

Kelly: Yep, the state or US government is responsible for the welfare and safety of all it's prisoners. That means they are financially responsible for your care even if you knew of the disease before you were incarcerated. And yes, all prisoners get free health care. It may not be "top notch" by some peoples' standards but it's free and it's abundant. And it's paid for by the government. Ahhh...I love capitalism.

Nikki - posted on 10/09/2011

Kelly I wish I could adopt you!

Kelly - posted on 10/09/2011

Hmmm...You know what, Laura, that is an idea. I hadn't thought of that one. They would do it even if I committed the crime after I knew about the cancer, right?

Nikki - posted on 10/09/2011

That's so screwed up but if I were in that position and couldn't afford health care to save my life you bet I would rob a bank if it meant I had a chance at survival.

Stifler's - posted on 10/09/2011

Are you serious about the prisoners?? My mind is boggling as to why anyone would oppose UHC.

Jodi - posted on 10/09/2011

I think it is very sad where you have to commit a crime, divorce your husband or quit your job in order to get the health care you need at the time you need it. Very, very wrong.

Jaime - posted on 10/09/2011

Good points, Laura.

Johnny - posted on 10/09/2011

I have seen cases on the news before of people with serious illnesses committing crimes so that they could get medical treatment in prison. There was some guy in California who robbed a bank for a dollar for that.

Nikki - posted on 10/09/2011

Really Laura, that's disgusting. Do they need insurance? On what planet is that fair?

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/09/2011

You know Kelly if you committed a crime and ended up in prison you would get top notch medical care to fight your cancer should it return. Sad isn't it? Our criminals get more freedom to life then those of us who have abided by the law. In fact our war prisoners get better healthcare then our law abiding citizens.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/09/2011

Kelly I wish I could get you on my state insurance. :(
I'm pretty poor in comparison to other Americans but Kelly I'd happily give you any money i had to spare. NO ONE deserves to worry about paying for their life. NO one.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/09/2011

Well that was an interesting 14 page read since my last post :-)
All I can say is the right to live is a RIGHT not a priviledge.
Angela j I do not believe in your style of freedom if it means may people are free to die.
True freedom will bring happiness and prosperity and a full life.
And without healthcare available many will not be free. They will be slaves to money. Working themselves to death to try to pay to live.
Why are the big corporations living the good life while others are dying for lack of care.
No human is better then another, no ones life more important then another's and yet in America we have segregated ourselves through money. More money you have the more important your life is. The poorer you are the less your life is worth.
That's just not right.
So let's say a young woman turns 18, ages out of the foster care system. No family. She has a job but it offers no insurance. Now she has a deadly allergic reaction, goes into anaphylactic shock and is rushed via ambulance to the ER, she gets alot of treatment and ends up thousands of dollars in debt to the hospital. She searches for a job that has insurance but it's a preexisting condition so now she has to still pay for it.
Doesn't sound too free to me.

I live happily in a socialist part of America, I'm on state insurance. My husband works two jobs and I work one but none of our jobs offer insurance. Should we pay out of pocket for our prides sake? Or can we be grateful for the care our country is giving us and in time we will pay back into the system for the next generation to have the RIGHT TO LIVE.

I am truly free. Free to live.

Kelly - posted on 10/09/2011

Gee....I do everything she mentioned to save $$ and yet, I STILL cannot carve out that $750,000 from my budget. And I don't even have a mortgage! We purchased a very small house that we were able to pay for after about 7 years by making extra payments when we had the money.

Why can't I cut enough corners? Why can't I just find something else to cut back on? Well, because we just don't make that much....I guess I need to increase our income....that is difficult since we are in the top 25% where we live--there are not many jobs that pay more than my husband's around here--or in most of the country, and yet, we STILL struggle! Of course, we wouldn't struggle if I were not sick, or if I could buy insurance, but I am, and I can't :P



I can't carve out $750,00 on our 6 figure income, I can't imagine how someone making $30,000 a year could carve out $800 from their budget for private insurance if they'd been sick....I'm glad you've been healthy and have low premiums, I hope it stays that way for you.



Why are there no other options being discussed? Why does it have to be UHC or nothing? Because there is no need for any other option to be discussed--UHC works in many countries, out-performs us in terms of quality in many areas, and has no faults that our PHS system does not already have.

Jodi - posted on 10/09/2011

Oh, look, yet another research discovery in a socialist country where the health system is not driven by profits! Just thought I'd share because I saw it in the news this morning. Very timely! Look how well we can all collaborate globally in a not for profit system, so that everyone has access to health care (as opposed to only those who can afford it), and still move forward in our quest for answers.



http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/late...

Kate CP - posted on 10/09/2011

Why do people think that the government would have a say in how you're treated medically? It would be JUST like it is now in Medicaid/Medicare except people would be able to qualify for it!

The government has so many fingers in the pie already and no body bitches about it unless they don't intervene enough:

FDA
DEA
ATF

And on and on. No, government isn't perfect but it's not like it's this separate entity from human beings: they ARE human beings! No one is talking about a Logan's Run future here.

Look, I get that change is scary and hard and no body really likes it. But it's necessary and it needs to be done. When the system doesn't work...change the system.

Nikki - posted on 10/09/2011

What's the point in finding a compromise when UHC obviously works? Look at the WHO's ranking of the top health care systems in the world, why not base the US's system on those that have been trialled and clearly work.

Angela - posted on 10/09/2011

Ok so curiosity killed the cat and I had to look at what was posted. My husband is not the father of all of my children and the home was purchased before we met. He had a future family in mind when he bought the home. We married with not debt because we though along the same lines. As I also stated it is not something all can do but some can.

I still ask is there no other choice but the system we have now or UHC? Where are all the answers to that question? am I the only one that is expected to answer all of your questions and not one of the many of you willing to answer mine? Where do you read that it is constitutionally right for the gov to get involved in health care?

Shannen - posted on 10/09/2011

If I lived in America I would seriously be screwed.

Johnny - posted on 10/09/2011

"Either up your income or lower your expenses."

That is so out of touch with reality that it is not even funny. For some people lowering their expenses is the choice between giving up the roof over their head or putting food on the table. You may live in a region of low unemployment, but for people in many areas of your nation, they are lucky just to be able to find one minimum wage job, let alone "up their income". And to get a better job, that may require more education which they would need to incur debt to receive.

With an unemployment rate of 9.1% and a structural unemployment rate (which includes those who have stopped bothering to look for work) estimated to be around 14%, comments like this are close to offensive for struggling families. If you can make ends meet and afford private insurance by using less heating & AC, couponing, and using hand-me-downs, you are not doing too badly. In many discussions here on COM, many many other moms discuss similar expense cutting techniques. It is quite common. Sadly, for many, those don't quite make up for their lack of funds nor allow them to purchase good health insurance.

I realize that you have chosen to bow out of this debate. I understand it must be exhausting to be bombarded by opposition from all sides. I can see that trying to keep up with the stream of questions and points from the opposing side is nearly impossible for one person. But perhaps that should lead you to ask yourself why it is that all of these people who have lived with UHC (and some who have lived with it and also in your system) are so strongly in favor.

As you noted, there are problems with delivery of UHC in most countries, Canada included. There are funding struggles, demographic challenges, and usage issues. But they pale in comparison to the massive problems of the user pay system in the US. Canadians do have some complaints about Medicare, of course. But you don't see any of us willing to give it up for a user pay system. Overwhelmingly, Canadians support UHC and a couple years ago voted the founder of the UHC system to be the "Greatest Canadian". On the other hand, as I repeatedly noted throughout this article, Americans by a fairly wide margin would support a move to a UHC system and repeatedly refer to their own healthcare system as being in crisis.

Perhaps it's not going so well for most as it is for you. It's nice to think that you've done all this hard work and deserve your success. But have you ever stopped to think about all those Americans who have worked just as hard as you, scrimped and saved just as much, wore hand-me-downs, worked two or three jobs, don't even have AC in their house, and still can't afford the most basic of healthcare?

Angela - posted on 10/09/2011

I am like you no debts, except my home. I save for what I want and a SAHM. However if my husband were to die or was unable to work I would not be worried of my health care. :)