Jenny - posted on 07/10/2010 ( 209 moms have responded )
I refuse to set foot in Wal-Mart. I believe they are detrimental to society and vote with my money. What are your thoughts?
Jenny - posted on 07/10/2010 ( 209 moms have responded )
I refuse to set foot in Wal-Mart. I believe they are detrimental to society and vote with my money. What are your thoughts?
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Lindsay - posted on 07/16/2010
This thread is being closed...
Kelly - posted on 07/16/2010
CHRISTINA: What about gas stations??? Gas stations are on just about every street corner anymore. They provide a necessity for most people, yes, but they also pay LESS than WM pays their employees AND they get little to no benefits compared to WM employees.
Again, Where did you get that information? I didn’t see any source and it does not agree with what I found in my research and on the ConocoPhillips website.
Most gas stations are franchises, and are operated by their owners and 3 to four other employees. Most gas stations DO Pay better than walmart and they DO provide better benefits than walmart because even though they are individually owned, they can take advantage of the franchise programs. Need some research to back that up? ConocoPhillips provides a starting pay of $9/hour for day workers and $11.50/ hour for night workers (here, this varies by franchise owners and locations). They provid 5 different options for health insurance for employees AND their families. 2 different dental plans to choose from and they are available on the 1st day of the month after the new employee begins work. They have employer matched retirement and stock option plans. They also have a savings plan that is employer matched up to 1.25%. (This search only took a second, you can find all of it on the ConocoPhillips website)
Kelly - posted on 07/16/2010
ME: "no other employer in the state has a comparable share of its employees in the program."
CHRISTINA: Ok, the reason is b/c WM creates more jobs than other stores. If mom and pop shops ran rampant, THEY would be the ones with higher numbers of employees taking advantage of government assistance b/c they pay LESS [than WM].
No, the reason walmart has so many employees on state assistance is because they do not pay their employees enough to live without state assistance, the healthcare plan they offer is too expensive, The majority of their workers are part time and must wait 2 years to get benefits and they do not provide benefits for families of part-time employees(as I stated above)s. That is common sense right there.
Kelly - posted on 07/16/2010
As for my husband’s job, you have assembly machines and industrial robotics confused, but even if you were smart enough to know the difference I doubt you have the mental grasp to understand how BOTH improve production jobs. I explained that in the simplest terms I know, but if it is over your head, it’s over your head.
ME: His robotics do not put people out of work, they make work safer, and create better, higher paying jobs. Biometric security robotics are security systems that scan organic qualities, such as an eye, voice command, finger prints, or facial contour and turn it into a number than can be recognized by an access panel--in simple terms, it keeps bad guys out. Another project he just completed concerns robotics that send an electrical current through a grid to control the width of fiberglass cables--not something humans could do.—You forgot to copy and paste that part!
CHRISTINA: Well Kelly, since you're going to argue what Mr. Bolt would be happier with. Why don't we take a look at this: Do you think someone would be happier making $7/hour MINUS Benefits at a local mom and pop shop rather than $12/hour PLUS Benefits at WM?? Yeah, I think they'd be happier at WM with the $12/hour and benefits.
Where did you get that information? I gave sources for all of my research so that you could back up what I said. You have not sited one study, article, group, or source for any of that information—I think you made it up, because there is a TON of info in this very thread that argues otherwise.
The majority of walmart employees do NOT make $12 / hour. The national average for walmart store employees is $8/hour . For the distribution centers it is closer to $10/hour. And the benefits are a JOKE: The majority of their employees are PART TIME and have to wait 2 years to get benefits, can NEVER get benefits for their family, and when they do finally get benefits, they spend about 45% of their pretax earnings to pay for them. Even nearly half (41% according to GJF) of their full time employees who qualify for benefits sooner and benefits for their families cannot afford to use the company healthplans and are STILL on govt. assistance.
Smaller retail stores generally employ teens and college students who do not need full time work or benefits. They don’t skirt the rules by asking a part time employee to work a 30 hour work week, then say “sorry, you don’t qualify for benefits.”
Large and small industrial businesses in the US (like the one our hypothetical Mr. Bolt was employed to) pay on average $12-$20/hour for experienced labor or people who manage the robotics. (Dept. of Labor and Statistics)
Here is a little more info from the US Dept. of Labor about why small businesses are important to the US and our economy:
With more than one million new businesses each year, America’s economy depends on small businesses for its vitality and growth. According to the 1997 report of the U.S. Census Bureau, the nation’s 17 million small, non-farm businesses constituted 99.7 per cent of all employers, employed 52 percent of private workforce and accounted for 51 percent of the nation’s sales. Small business-dominated industries provided 11.1 million new jobs between 1994 and 1998, virtually all of the new jobs created during that time period. Small businesses are most likely to generate jobs for young workers, older workers and women, provide 67 percent of first jobs and produce 55 percent of innovations.
Kelly - posted on 07/16/2010
CHRISTINA: “You won't even care to read what's actually in my posts. If you did, you would see that I brought up more points"
I said you are the ONLY ONE still arguing the "I can't afford it" line. NOT The only argument you have is the "I can't afford it" line. I brought up and refuted every point you made, but apparently you didn't read that, so I'll copy and paste it here, I know you love copy and paste!
You said, it is closer , which for me, it is not much closer.
You said the hours are longer , which again, doesn’t affect me b/c I am a SAHM and shop during the day.
You said it is cheaper; again, it is not much cheaper for the products I actually buy.
You said the shoes are better than Timberland, which could be true, but I don’t buy Timberland they hurt my foot too, so I buy Striderite or New Balance—both are cheaper than Timberland.
You said the clothes were better quality than the stores at your mall—I can’t argue with that, I don’t know what stores are in your mall; I don’t even shop in our mall often, but the clothes I buy at Mast or in the small boutiques I shop in are much better made.
There you go, All 5 of your arguments in favor of walmart and why they do not apply to everyone. Taxes and tax payer funded programs apply to all of us, we all pay taxes and we don’t need them wasted on programs for employees that work for a company more than profitable enough to pay them decently and give them good benefits.
C. - posted on 07/15/2010
"but my hubby had to wait 6 month to get ANY sort of benefits."
Jocelyn, that's pretty much ANY store you go to work for. It's part of their 'Probationary Period' to make sure you are going to do the good job you claim to do. If they're going to have to fire someone for being a horrible employee, what a waste that would be to be paying into a plan that they couldn't even use.
@Kelly, you are rather annoying me. Nothing I said was an attack on your husband and if you fail to realize that, then there's really something not right 'upstairs' and that's not my problem to deal with. This is the absolute LAST TIME I am replying to this nonsense b/c you aren't reading anything, you're just 'doing research' (BIASED research, anyway). At least I am TRYING to look at BOTH sides, if the stupid internet would cooperate better. I am moving on Tuesday and I don't have time to keep coming back to someone that isn't taking the time to read and comprehend.
I brought up what you said about your husband b/c BY DEFINITION, INDUSTRIAL ROBOTICS REPLACES THEIR HUMAN COUNTERPARTS, THUS TAKING JOBS AWAY FROM PEOPLE. Obviously you are having trouble READING, b/c if you were reading just fine, you would have picked that up from the very first post where I mentioned your husband. It wasn't attack on your husband at all. In fact, it was an attack on your theory about WM taking jobs away from people. You are battling about WM being so horrible, but look at what your husband does? I don't see how you can be so two-faced about that. One is definitely taking jobs away from people and the other is actually PROVIDING jobs. Like I said, I don't have a problem with what your husband does, but with all your conspiracy BS about WM, I'm surprised you don't have a problem with it. Again, NOT an attack. It wasn't anywhere near an attack. Good grief.
Anyway, on to your most recent posts..
"You are the only one on this thread still arguing the “We can’t afford it” line"
You're obviously not reading my posts at all, Kelly.. I've brought up much more points than that. Go back and READ. Apparently it's YOU that isn't getting it..
"Do you think Mr. Bolt is happier making $8/hour tightening bolts, or making $18/hour running the machine that tightens them. I think he would prefer making $18/hour."
Well Kelly, since you're going to argue what Mr. Bolt would be happier with.. Why don't we take a look at this:
Do you think someone would be happier making $7/hour MINUS Benefits at a local mom and pop shop rather than $12/hour PLUS Benefits at WM?? Yeah, I think they'd be happier at WM with the $12/hour and benefits.
"no other employer in the state has a comparable share of its employees in the program."
How can you not realize what you are even posting.. Ok, the reason is b/c WM creates more jobs than other stores. If mom and pop shops ran rampant, THEY would be the ones with higher numbers of employees taking advantage of government assistance b/c they pay LESS [than WM].
What about gas stations??? Gas stations are on just about every street corner anymore. They provide a necessity for most people, yes, but they also pay LESS than WM pays their employees AND they get little to no benefits compared to WM employees.. You think those people are sitting by and not getting any kind of assistance? Nope. Think again.
Not everyone has a driver's license, so they can't always shop during the day, even when they are a SAHM- like myself.
Who knew it would be harder to pass the freakin test when you have a disability??
Ugh, so frustrating.. Keep arguing, you're going to be talking to a brick wall.. This is so ridiculous. You won't even care to read what's actually in my posts. If you did, you would see that I brought up more points than some people not having enough money to shop elsewhere. Again, do some unbiased research.. Maybe after Tuesday I'll take a look to see if you have and if you have, then maybe I'll give you the time of day. As for now, I am done with you. I have too much to do before Tuesday morning to sit here for hours on end trying to do research that won't even be read b/c the person on the other end of this conversation had her head too far in the clouds to hear what anybody but herself is saying. Goodnight :)
Jocelyn - posted on 07/15/2010
Wanda I disagree. We're also in Canada, but my hubby had to wait 6 month to get ANY sort of benefits. Then he had to wait a few more months to add his dependents. He worked nights, and they took away his $2 incentive because they needed to make some budget cuts, but the owners and the head managers got raises. (Well to be fair they did give my hubby a raise after they took away all the overnight incentives and bonuses, 20 fucking cents). Then they brought in a new overnight assistant manger to work alongside my hubby. They didn't get along, so she went running to the head manager and got my hubby fired (claiming she couldn't work with him because of personal differences and that he told her to fuck off - everyone who'd worked there for any amount of time knew what my dh is like, he swears a lot, but never at someone to offend them personally) and so he was fired one week before Christmas, and 2 months after having our second child (which they knew about). Then they tried fucking around with our unemployment claim, telling them that Jordan had quit. They have also just recently cut everyone's hours so that they have no more full time employees (other than the managers) therefore they don't have to give anyone benefits.
Wanda - posted on 07/15/2010
For those who won't shop WalMart because of how they treat their employees:
I've worked for WalMart for 12 years and I can't complain. I could have a decent benefit plan if I wanted it but my hubby has an even better benefit plan so I opted out of mine. I get a good wage, it's on par and sometimes better than other stores in my area. I have stock options, defered profit sharing, an RRSP plan and an employee discount. They've been really good about giving me flexable hours so I can stay home with my son. If I want to, I can go as far as I want with the company. I've had my store manager and district manager both approach me and want me to become an assistant but I turned them down, I didn't want the responsibility.
I shop at WalMart a lot and have had no troubles. I have furniture and clothing from there and it's all lasted just as long as anything else (I refuse to buy most brand names because I refuse to pay more to be a billboard).
I am envious of those who have Timmies and Subways in their WalMarts. We just have a McD's and I refuse to eat there (any McD's, not just the one in WalMart).
I'm in Canada so that may make some difference in the way emloyees are treated. We don't have Target, Walgreens, or Meijer so I can't compare them.
Charlene - posted on 07/15/2010
I buy a couple grocery items at Wal*Mart once in a while. Cereal, granola bars, juice boxes, etc. Not much, but just when it's cheaper to do.
I do most of my grocery shopping at Sobey's or Superstore, but now that it's summer, it's actually cheaper to get some of the produce I like at the local U-picks. Strawberries, raspberries etc. are all in season and I prefer to go get them right off of the plant. I pick a ton of them (not literaly a ton, but close!), freeze half of them and make freezable things out of the rest. (Jam, pies etc.)
Also, when I go to the country side to visit relatives, there are always roadside stands or local farms that have items for sale at a very low price. Corn, berries, potatoes, carrots etc. I can get those for pretty much pennies/lb.
Our Farmer's Market is only open on Saturdays, from 10am-2pm and when I was working, I usually worked on Saturdays.
As for 'mom and pop' shops, they are almost all aimed at tourists here, so they are usually only open from May-October.
For the rest of the things though, (diapers, cleaning supplies, toiletries, pharmaceuticals, etc.), there really is only WM, Zellers or the grocery stores, Sobey's and Superstore. Oh, and Shoppers Drug Mart. But Wal*Mart is 99% of the time cheaper for those types of items.
Kelly - posted on 07/15/2010
Wow! that was much longer than I anticipated! Most of it is copied & pasted from various studies, I just didn't realize how long they were. Sorry for the book.
Mary Elizebeth, that is a very interesting theory. I've heard a lot of things about China causing our economy to collapse, but I guess I've never thought of it in terms connecting directly to walmart (other than the China made products, but nearly every store carries some of them).
Kelly - posted on 07/15/2010
I have stated numerous times that I am offering information and options to people who HAVE other options. So please stop telling me how some people can’t afford anything else or don’t have any small businesses left near them—I KNOW THAT. Everyone gets it but you. You are the only one on this thread still arguing the “We can’t afford it” line. So that is all I’m going to say on that point again.
Second, what you said about my husband WAS a personal attack. It had absolutely nothing to do with walmart (his company doesn’t sell to walmart, buy from walmart, or engage in business in any way with walmart). You copied one part of what I wrote and twisted it out of context, like you have been doing this whole thread. I explained IN DETAIL how my husband’s company does not take jobs away from humans and how they help make the work place safer. Do you refute any of those statements? Do you think Mr. Bolt is happier making $8/hour tightening bolts, or making $18/hour running the machine that tightens them. I think he would prefer making $18/hour.
Walmart creates jobs, I’ll give you that, but they are poor quality jobs:
In 2002, Wal-Mart raised its definition of “full-time” work from 29 to 34 hours weekly. With that change, Wal-Mart increased the number of its part-time workers to nearly 400,000, or about a third of its total workforce, and also increased barriers to workers’ eligibility for job-based health care, according to a report by the minority staff of theU.S. House of Representatives Education and Workforce Committee. Part-time workers must wait two years to be fully covered and cannot ever purchase care under the Wal-Mart plan for their children or spouses.
According to an October 2003 AFL-CIO report, an unmarried Wal-Mart employee earning between $7.50 and $8.50 an hour for a “full-time” 34-hour workweek and choosing the least expensive coverage available might have to spend $6,396.50—some 45 percent of his or her annual wages—on health care.
According to a study by GJF (Good Jobs First) Wal-Mart workers paid 42% of the total cost of the company's health plan. In contrast, the typical large business expects employees to pay only 16% of the total cost for individual coverage. Therefore, most of their lowly paid employees are encouraged to seek public assistance instead.
In Georgia, one of every four walmart employees has a child in the state's PeachCare health program, according to a recent survey. Over 10,000 of the 166,000 children covered by PeachCare have a parent working for Wal-Mart; no other employer in the state has a comparable share of its employees in the program.
In California, the families of Wal-Mart employees use an estimated 40% more in publicly funded health care than the average for families of employees at other large retail firms, according to an August 2003 study by University of California, Berkeley's Institute for Industrial Relations. The same study found that California Wal-Mart employees and their families utilize an additional $54 million in non-health related federal assistance, including food stamps, the Earned Income Tax Credit, subsidized school lunches, and subsidized housing.
walmart has the greatest number of associates and associate dependents on Medicaid in Ohio, costing taxpayers $44.8 million in 2009.
Over 41.4 percent of walmart’s total workforce in Massachusetts used publicly subsidized health care, costing taxpayers $15.5 million in 2008.
This is a NATIONAL issue, not a local one, these studies are from several different states, so, you may be paying less at the checkout, but you are paying more in taxes. And that is just for employee benefits and welfare! There is more!!! Our taxes are also funding their expansions.
Good Jobs First (GJF), a research and advocacy group that seeks to hold corporations accountable when they receive public subsidies, released a report detailing subsidies WalMart has received to build both retail stores and the network of nearly 100 distribution centers the company has created to facilitate its expansion. The group found that over 90% of the company's distribution centers have been subsidized. It also uncovered 91 instances when the retail stores received public funds. GJF investigators documented 244 Wal-Mart subsidy deals with a total value of $1.008 billion. Taxpayer dollars have helped individual stores and distribution centers with everything from free or cut-price land to general grants.
Now let’s talk about charitable giving. According to a study by Forbes magazine, Walmart gives less than 1% of its annual earnings to charitable causes. Target leads the nation by giving 2.1% of its annual earnings to charities—more than twice the amount of walmart. Yes, walmart gives, but others give more—including Safeway, Coca-Cola, Nationwide, and Caterpillar.
Now, you have some good information, backed up by national studies in addition to the ones Laci posted earlier. Given all of this info, if you still choose to shop there, it’s on you. In your last post, you still failed to give me any good reason to shop at walmart.
It is closer, which for me, it is not much closer.
The hours are longer, which again, doesn’t affect me b/c I am a SAHM and shop during the day.
It is cheaper; again, it is not much cheaper for the products I actually buy.
The shoes are better than Timberland, which could be true, but I don’t buy Timberland they hurt my foot too, so I buy Striderite or New Balance—both are cheaper than Timberland.
Tthe clothes were better quality than the stores at your mall—I can’t argue with that, I don’t know what stores are in your mall; I don’t even shop in our mall often, but the clothes I buy at Mast or in the small boutiques I shop in are much better made.
We ALL pay taxes. So that argument affects all of us.
ME - posted on 07/15/2010
I have a student who is an econ major...she talked about the Wal*Mart-China connection, and the eventual collapse of our economy while we were talking about Imperialism last night...(I DIDN'T BRING IT UP, SHE DID)...She is CLEARLY a very intelligent and thoughtful person, I do not think she was making it up, but it all sounded very apocalyptic to me...I don't shop at walmart because of the way they treat their employees, and because of the cheap quality of their stuff, and because they run small business out of business...but she made it sound positively anti-american to shop there. Dangerous, in fact, to the stability of our economy. I am not an econ scholar...but the things she was saying were kind of terrifying...
C. - posted on 07/15/2010
Trust me, the feeling is mutual. This is really just a bunch of nonsense. And if you're going to debate on these forums, you need to get one thing straight.. My post regarding your husband was NOT a 'personal attack' in any way. All I did was copy something from your own post, paste it to mine and comment on it b/c I don't see how someone could go on complaining about WM and how it's 'so bad for the community' when their husband is creating robots that take the place of humans in factories. And yes, that is the definition of 'industrial robotics', so either you are trying to get yourself out of a tangled web or you really have no idea what your husband does. I have no problem with what your husband does, so I really don't see how my post could be perceived as an attack. You were the one protesting in the name of our local communities. And that's all well and good, really it is, but if you're going to protest against a big chain such as WM b/c it takes jobs away from our communities, then you should also be talking to your husband in regards to what he does. It's like crossing the street, Kelly.. You can't look one way w/o looking the other. If you hate WM, perhaps you should also hate robots in factories.
Now, I really don't see how that was so hard to comprehend from my earlier post, but whatever floats your root beer.
I typed in 'wal-mart bad for the economy' and got these
(from the first link, ending statement) "otherwise, if people have a problem with their practices, I have a simple suggestion - don't shop there."
Ok, well I tried loading several other pages and the internet is being a tard and wouldn't load them. So I will have to do it tomorrow, God willing the internet is working.
Now, I know you hate to think that WM does any good.. But what about all the charities they work with, both nationally and locally??? If we don't support WM, which is a big contributor to many charities, those charities won't get as many donations, thus falling short in their overall goal. So you can keep on arguing about how WM is so horrible, that's fine.. They're really not as bad as you all claim (well, the few of you opposing, anyway).
I don't know about you, but I've had a hangover before and I never once forgot about what I was supposed to do, even the not-so-important things. Did I feel like crap? Yes I did, but I still did what I needed to do. So unless the guy was still drunk, I don't think he'd forget.. And if he was still drunk, chances are he probably wouldn't have made it to work at all, so I really don't think there's too much to worry about there.
"In all of those long posts you have written, you have failed to give one good reason why someone SHOULD shop at walmart"
Apparently we all have different views. Several people found my posts helpful, so apparently the reasons were good enough for them. You have failed to give ME one good reason as well, as I don't buy into the whole "WM is just so horrible b/c it takes jobs away and.." propaganda. You keep saying the same things over and over about how small businesses suffer. Well what are we supposed to do?? WM provides many jobs for people that are either going to school, can't find a job anywhere else- including the local mom and pop shop, people on work-release (which there are many small businesses that wouldn't take the time to hire those people- not saying all, but definitely too many- everyone deserves a second chance). WM provides healthcare benefits that many small businesses can't afford, leaving it up to the employee to fend for themselves, and if they were to work for a small business, chances are their earnings wouldn't be enough to take care of their family and healthcare on their own. And what about the elderly?? Small businesses don't have the insurance that is needed if for some reason the senior citizen working for them gets hurt on the job. In fact, many small businesses don't hire older people b/c they will end up being a liability in the event that something does happen OTJ, and since they don't have adequate insurance, their business will go under, especially if the injury was the business' fault (faulty equipment, no sign out on a wet floor, etc).
"you do not just throw insults at someone because she disagrees with you. You give concrete, fact based information to persuade her to agree with you"
You do realize that you were doing the same thing?? I don't remember seeing one of your posts with links to back anything up that you claimed.. And I do know how to debate. Debating wasn't exactly my point in replying to you in the beginning. I was trying to get your head out of the clouds and realize that hey, some people don't have any other store near them where they can save a decent amount of money. However, you keep missing that point, no matter how many times I repeat myself. Not my problem.
"I never said I was better than anyone."
You may not have actually said those words, but you did imply it with bragging abut how much you make and blah, blah, blah.. Here's a clue for you.. Nobody cares what you make in a year!!! We really don't.
Back to one of your earlier posts for a moment.
"I can get both for 99cents at the farmer's market."
Not everyone has a Produce Stand or Farmer's Market near them. Back at home, the closest one to us is about 30 minutes away. WM is 10 minutes away. When I'm in a hurry, WM it is.. Not only that, but stands/markets are only open for certain hours during the day and many times (not all, but many) are closed in the winter. WM is usually open 24 hours (I realize this depends on whether you are shopping at the Super Center or a reg. WM, but even so, reg. WMs stay open a lot later than produce stands do).
In Hawaii, we literally lived 5 minutes (driving) from the Dole Plantation. But we usually shopped at the Commissary b/c by the time my husband came home with the car, the Dole Plantation was just about to close for the day.
"Sugary kid cereal was cheaper by about $1 per box, but warm cereal and healthy cereal was more expensive"
Well I don't allow my son to eat 'sugary kid cereal', so those dollars I would be spending on that, goes towards our healthy cereals. Oh, and I buy WM brand Cheerios, Honey-Nut Cheerios, Special K flakes- all the same thing but more than a dollar cheaper/box. So I'm still saving :)
"Most of the smaller stores around here will price match printed ads and take competitors coupons"
Again, maybe where you live. However, out here there are a select few that do price-match.. All of which are about 20 minutes away or more.
"The clothes and shoes were much cheaper than what I buy, but the quality was bad--many of the clothes were off in the fit and had loose threads or unfinished hems"
I've actually had better luck finding the best yoga pants and tops and children's clothing/shoes at WM than I have anywhere else. Even places like.. The mall! And they all seem to last as long, if not longer. My son's feet grow too fast for me to buy him expensive shoes. There's just no point to it b/c he'll wear them maybe 5 times and then it's time to buy another pair in a larger size. It's just wasteful.
"The shoe brands they carried had little to no arch support or firm cushioning, so I wouldn't trust them on my son's foot."
My husband and I bought a pair of sandals for our son there.. It had the best cushioning on the bottom that I'd been able to find anywhere else. AND we compared the WM pair to the Timberland sandals my MIL got my son.. MUCH better cushioning. My son hates to wear the Timberland's b/c they hurt his feet. Just sayin..
But anyway, I have things I need to get done in the AM, so it's back to bed for me until my Little Monster wakes up. I'll come back to this later.
Kelly - posted on 07/14/2010
And one last thing about me being "bitter" as you put it. One of the most wonderful things about the US is that anyone can earn as little or as much as they want to in almost any profession they choose (with the exception of a few illegal ones like prostitution & drugs). If you want to work in a factory, you can, if you want to own a factory, you can! If you want it to be a little factory and enjoy middle class, you can! If you want a mega corp that makes you a multi-millionaire, you can do that too! But walmart is threatening to take that right and freedom away. As they eliminate more and more small businesses (most small businesses are in the retail sector), those owners and their employees become unemployed. So they go to work for bigger companies that can hold out longer, then they are pushed out of business b/c walmart just got all of the small business clientèle, so they can buy in even bigger bulk and even lower costs, so they eventually push the medium businesses out of business. Eventually, all that is left are super companies, like walmart then you must work for them, in positions they create and control. You cannot earn or do what ever you want to do b/c you won't be able to start a business that can compete. (Obviously, this example only includes the retail sector and not education, service industry, and other sectors of commerce).
Does that make sense to anyone?
Kelly - posted on 07/14/2010
Ps. I never said I was better than anyone.
Kelly - posted on 07/14/2010
Christina P, I'm getting quite sick of you. I was not going to respond to you anymore, but after seeing your personal attack on my husband, I felt I needed to defend his position. His robotics do not put people out of work, they make work safer, and create better, higher paying jobs. Biometric security robotics are security systems that scan organic qualities, such as an eye, voice command, finger prints, or facial contour and turn it into a number than can be recognized by an access panel--in simple terms, it keeps bad guys out. Another project he just completed concerns robotics that send an electrical current through a grid to control the width of fiberglass cables--not something humans could do.
Also, he actually helps to keep jobs in America, because when companies were having to pay tons of people to do monotonous little chores, it got too expensive and they sent the entire operation over seas or to Central and South American countries with less stringent labor laws. By having robotics to the unskilled labor jobs, companies are able to pay skilled workers a premium AND keep their plants in the US. PLUS robotics improve quality and safety in the products you buy everyday--wouldn't it suck if your carseat has a loose bolt b/c the bolt guy drowned his sorrow in whiskey the night before and had a hangover and forgot to tighten it enough? Great news, the bolt guy was replaced with a robot and was trained to run the robot who could tighten 5 times as many bolts as he could in the same amount of space. If there is no space, the company cannot hire more bolt guys to speed up production, but they can get a robot to do the bolts faster and more consistently, and the bolt guy gets a nice raise b/c of the increased production.
Now, let's talk about debate. In all of those long posts you have written, you have failed to give one good reason why someone SHOULD shop at walmart. I and several others have given numerous reasons why people who can afford not to, should not shop at walmart. Included among those: the labor standards Laci posted about, the poor quality of jobs they provide (32 hour work week, lack of benefits as most positions are part time) the dirty practices they use to run out small businesses (low prices when they first open a new store, then raising them later), less community contributions than other stores of their caliber, the government bribing (in terms of campaign contributions) in exchange for tax breaks available only to large corporations--just to name a few of the reasons.
To debate, refute those claims. Provide facts to support your theory that walmart does not discriminate against women, pressure employees to work off the clock, lobby for unfair tax cuts, run smaller businesses out of business, or adjust their prices when opening new stores. Provide facts to support that more than half their employees get benefits (paid time off, company sponsored 401K, healthcare) and that their full time hourly employees get full 40 hour work weeks. That is how you debate, you do not just throw insults at someone because she disagrees with you. You give concrete, fact based information to persuade her to agree with you.
C. - posted on 07/14/2010
Ok, I got on to check my email about something going on in HI.. And of course I just HAD to check to see my notifications, which brought me to the other thread..
WAIT A MINUTE- HOLD THE PHONE.. I'm not done, Kelly.. Just the other day in the 'Who are we?' thread, you said this about your husband:
"He is a Biometrics & Industrial Systems Engineer--he designs brains for industrial robotics."
Now, I'm just spit-ballin' here, but aren't those the things that put PEOPLE out of jobs??? So how is WM any worse than what your husband is doing??? LMAO.. Really?? You should tell your husband to quit his job so he can give the communities their jobs back.. You know, before industrial robots were made, PEOPLE used to be the ones tightening bolts on things or carrying loads of whatever around. How do you think those people felt when your husband's robots came to the factories and cost those people their jobs??? Get off your high horse, you are no better than those of us who shop at WM.. Not one tiny little bit.
Johnny - posted on 07/14/2010
It saddens me that we can all be so self-absorbed that we are not interested in making an effort to improve our society. We ALL can do things better and take an interest in how our choices effect our world. It is a learning curve, and no one gets it right all the time, but we should at least try. Like many people said, there are options for buying cheaper products other than going to Walmart in most places (obviously not all). It takes a little creativity and ingenuity, but it is do-able. Small businesses going bankrupt, lack of medical insurance for staff, part-time only hours, poor environmental choices, gouging producers & distributors for prices, all of these things have an impact on the successful functioning of our society. We are each damaged by this. We can stick our fingers in our ears, and sing "la-la-la I can't hear you" but it doesn't change the fact that the choices we are making are bad ones. Being honest with ourselves about how our own selfish choices are harmful is the first step to making positive changes.
The big thing is aiming to consume less. I see so much utter crap in stores. I was in London Drugs today (sort of our version of Walgreens) getting my passport photo taken. Just on the way to the photo department I saw for sale a massage pad to go on a outdoor lounger, a fork that spins itself to pick up spaghetti, a pillow for your dog, and a miniature tv that magnetizes onto the fridge. Nobody needs any of that stuff no matter what they tell themselves. And there is a lot of other stuff that we don't actually "need" that we think we do. We do not understand the difference between "need" & "want". Most people want to shop at Walmart, but a few people do need to. I am not questioning who is who, but I suspect we all know the truth about ourselves.
Just like I know I shouldn't be drinking bottled water, and that conversation has led me to do some research on reverse osmosis filters to see how much chlorine they remove so that I can give up the bottles. We need to stop excusing our own poor choices (notice I said choices).
C. - posted on 07/14/2010
Alright, Kelly.. You're how much older than me and you're getting so defensive over this??? Really??
"I haver said OVER and OVER and OVER, I am NOT referring to people who have no other choice"
Yet you are continually arguing with people who keep telling you they have no other choice b/c that's where they save the most money.. Hmm. All I did was copy/paste from your post.. It was there plain as day. If you can't understand that, then there's something wrong.
And yes, thank you, I can understand 5th grade economics. Way to go being condescending when you can't even comprehend what someone is saying to you.. Ooh, wait.. What was that.. Isn't reading comprehension something they teach BEFORE 5th grade?? Yeah..
IF YOU'RE NOT REFERRING TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE, THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP ARGUING WITH US AND TELLING US YOU DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN JUSTIFY SHOPPING THERE???? Quit contradicting yourself.
"I think YOU are bitter towards people who are better off financially than you are."
Actually I'm not. I hate when people talk like they know other's financial situations better than they do, but I am not bitter towards anyone that's better off than me.. Not in the least. But it is apparent that YES you are bitter towards WM b/c you keep going on and on and on about it. GET OVER IT ALREADY.
"If you want to enjoy not having to worry about pinching pennies and draining your checking account, get a higher paying job. That's common sense."
First of all, I am a SAHM, as if it's any of your business at all. Second, my husband is getting combat pay, which is more than what you are making (even if you were working full time). Thing is, we are saving so we can buy a house after we move back to the Mainland. We don't want to have to put anything on a credit card, we want to pay cash. That is the reason we are so set on saving money. We have a financial cushion, thank you very much :) But if I feel it's better to shop somewhere that I can save$2 on one item, then I'm going to b/c those $2 add up. Just today I went to WM after my appointment.. Spent $80, where as if I'd gone to Walgreens or a local grocery store (which they don't have very much of out here), I would have spent around $120. That's a $40 savings.
"If you don't care about other people and their livelihood or quality of life, that's fine, but you are the only one who has to live with that guilt on your conscience."
What are you, nuts? Seriously? Just b/c we shop at WM, we don't have a good conscience? Oh geeze. You're a piece of work, I'll give you that. I have no problem spending my money at WM. It helps out the 50+ employees that work there.. So, tell me exactly how we aren't helping anyone when we shop there?? Right, right.. *eye roll*
"And one last thing, get your facts straight and read before you reply. I do not own a STORE I own 2 small businesses--one provides a service, one is a manufacturer."
I did read, thank you.. Just b/c I don't give a crap whether it's a store or a 'business' doesn't mean I didn't read. It just means I don't give a crap if it's one or the other :)
And yes, they do have services at WM..
I really don't have time for someone who keeps going back on what they were implying in the beginning. Other people saw it, too, so it's not that I just wanted to pick on you. In fact, I don't like to pick on people. But when someone implies something and then says they never said it, well too bad for you.
I am not bitter towards anyone that has a 'bigger income'. My husband and I are doing just fine, thanks. So there's no reason for me to be 'bitter'. But from the start of you posting, you were going off about your friends' businesses and them not being able to compete with WM and having to close down.. THAT is why I said you seem to be bitter, b/c that's exactly what it sounds like, especially b/c you can't seem to get past it. Build a bridge and get over it ;)
I will say, though.. I had a good giggle. So thanks for that. I had a rough day and that just made it a little brighter. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to do a little packing while my son's asleep :)
Caitlin - posted on 07/14/2010
I wasn't saying that plumbers aren't well paid, I was making a point that some may consider it being a "crappy" (pardon the pun) job, but we need them. Burger flippers at mcdonalds? we need them. Everybody has a place, people at walmart are needed too, I know there are a few employees in this area who will never be able to get better jobs, because of physical or mental handicaps. These are great jobs for them! People supplementing their retirement income, great place to work, flexible hours.. I guess up here it may be different because health insurance isn't a big deal, becasue of universal healthcare.. (sorry, couldn't resist).
Jenny - posted on 07/14/2010
I’m sure you do care about people in your community Caitlin. I guess many people just don’t realize how their choices as a consumer can have such a direct affect on that same community. The customers really are the reason Wal-Mart exists though. It’s supply and demand. To me, minimum wage is simply not a good job. It’s entry level towards a good job. Minimum wage is for teenagers. Of course we need competent people to fill a variety of positions. I believe employees are what makes a company work and I will reward those who treat their staff well with my shopping dollars.
I’m hearing the mothers who don’t want to support Wal-Mart say they have found suitable, affordable alternatives. We are all from a variety of areas and found ways to make it work. If it is a priority for you, there is no such thing as no alternative but Wal-Mart.
BTW residential plumbers make $30+/hr as an employee where I live, hardly a menial job
Rosie - posted on 07/14/2010
you know caitlin i think i would shop there still too, along with aldi's and fareway, if i were to come into a bit of money. i am just a cheap person, i get a thrill out of saving as much money as i can. my mother has instilled that in me, and for the life of me i can't get rid of it, lol!! i refuse to spend more than $20 MAX on a pair of shoes (which have all lasted me years and years) or pants. i make my own jam, corn, and i'm learning how to make some cheese (it was really good!) and yogurt, and can tomatoes this year so i can make my own spaghetti sauce.
my walmart always has plenty of cashiers, always take my coupons, never question me when i say something was marked different, always price match without question, and have never had a bad experience there.
i would also like to point out for those looking into alternatives to walmart, that hardware stores have awesome deals too!! i work at a home improvement center and we have a freezer section even, lol!! we always scour the adds and beat other peoples prices. and if by chance there was something we missed, we will match it and then beat it by 11%. so it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll have the cheapest thing there. too bad we don't have produce or clothes, lol!! although we did get in watermelons a couple weeks ago-i'm not kidding, they're located right next to the power tools!! but we have a ton of house hold items.
Caitlin - posted on 07/14/2010
"Furthermore, I don't consider my $20 (or after my little experiment--$9) wasted. I consider it well spent b/c it is keeping a lot of my local citizens employed in good jobs. If you don't care about other people and their livelihood or quality of life, that's fine, but you are the only one who has to live with that guilt on your conscience."
Maybe I do care about other people, I certainly care about the community having good jobs. The way you say that implies that the less fortunate are responsible for the existance of crappy stores (not that the Walmart in our area is crappy). I'd love to be able to say that we get by just fine. If I had more money, i'd still shop at walmart. I need to put money aside for a rainy day (or a sick kid.. new epipens, etc..). I don't see the problem with them, really, I don't know how they work down there, but it's a decent job here, on par with other minimum wage gigs. Some people just dont' have the skills to work anything better, not their fault. The world needs janitors, plumbers, bricklayers, cashiers and shelf stockers. Someone has to do the job!
Kelly - posted on 07/14/2010
Christina P, I haver said OVER and OVER and OVER, I am NOT referring to people who have no other choice. If you can't understand what that means, well, then that explains why you can't understand 5th grade economics.
I am not "bitter towards walmart" I think YOU are bitter towards people who are better off financially than you are. If you want to enjoy not having to worry about pinching pennies and draining your checking account, get a higher paying job. That's common sense.
Furthermore, I don't consider my $20 (or after my little experiment--$9) wasted. I consider it well spent b/c it is keeping a lot of my local citizens employed in good jobs. If you don't care about other people and their livelihood or quality of life, that's fine, but you are the only one who has to live with that guilt on your conscience.
And one last thing, get your facts straight and read before you reply. I do not own a STORE I own 2 small businesses--one provides a service, one is a manufacturer. Also, I stated that I am NOT going out of business because of walmart--you cannot buy services at walmart, and you cannot pay walmart to manufacture something for you. Also, walmart could not sell the products I manufacture b/c they are custom made for individuals. I am closing them b/c they would not be very profitable after the new healthcare laws come into effect. I do not work at either of the businesses and they only profit about $8k-$10k annually. FYI if I wanted to work full time, I could let two people go and work their jobs myself and earn between $70k - $120k annually after the healthcare law comes into effect, but I choose to be a SAHM for my child, so I am closing the doors. We have plenty of savings and my husband makes more than enough to support us.
C. - posted on 07/13/2010
"I just can't believe that saving a few dollars is so important to anyone that they can justify supporting a company that knowingly uses dirty tactics to run small businesses out of business."
Oh, excuse me, Kelly.. But what do you think that is??? Telling someone you can't see how anything justifies them shopping at a place like WM??? Right.. Maybe you should go back and reread your comments.
" I HATE self checkouts. I'm sorry, but if I'm going to shop somewhere, the least I expect is for someone to bag my stuff and take my card."
Kelly, bagging is a CINCH. I used to be a cashier and we had to bag everything that we rang up. It's easy. Second, self checkouts are for people that like to be in and out in no time. If that's not you, then complain to the manager or Corporate Manager that they don't have enough registers open. It's THAT simple. Also, again, the difference between WM and Target depends on what area you live in or shop in. I have seen my fair share of crappy Target stores and I LOVE Target..
"I HATE walmart and I refuse to shop there."
From your first post on this thread.. We know you're bitter, Ok? stop trying to take it out on people.
"It sickens me that people care more about having an extra $20 in their pockets than the livelihood of their neighbors and local business owners. $20 is NOTHING"
Wow.. Even when you're store is closing, you still have no idea that $20 can go towards something important.. You better wake up fast b/c you're probably going to be pinching pennies like the most of us pretty soon.
I'm so glad that right now you can throw $20 away. That must be so nice. But you know what, a lot of people could use that $20 to put a little gas in their car or buy items to put in their child's school lunches or put that money toward a school clothing fund for when school rolls around. Glad that you can waste a $20, but not everyone can, Ok? So get off your high horse b/c not everyone is as fortunate as you.
"What could people possibly buy with $20 that is so much more important than supporting our local economies?"
I wish I'd finished reading the entire post before I commented, but.. PEOPLE CAN USE THAT $20 TO PUT TOWARDS SOMETHING FOR THEIR KID/S. So nice you don't have to worry about that, really it is. Others aren't so lucky.
" I'm sorry, a pedi is NOT a need"
Ugh, this is so frustrating.. How do you know how often Sharon gets a Pedi?? Maybe it's once every several months or once a year? Perhaps she does the in-betweens at home. Sometimes a mom NEEDS to do something nice for herself. You're acting like she goes out and gets them all the time!
Look, Kelly.. You really need to quit taking your bitterness out on everyone who chooses to shop at WM. If you and your friends can't compete, then obviously WM is doing something right for their customers and maybe you should rethink your marketing strategy.
The proof is in the pudding (or your previous posts). You're wasting my precious time now. I have a Dr Appt in the AM and I don't have time for this childishness when it's right there in black and white!!!
C. - posted on 07/13/2010
" But it is totally possible to spend the same or less in other stores"
Well, that also depends on the area you're in and what other stores you have available to you.
Caitlin - posted on 07/13/2010
Oh how I envy you all who have the freedom to grocery shop wherever you want! Grocery shopping here takes a whole day, 5-6 different stores depending on the week and what I need.. It's long..
Good Day! - posted on 07/13/2010
@Charlene, I've already partially responded to your last post, but it just clicked in my mind something that you were saying. In one of my previous posts I said that if I saved $70/shopping trip then I'd only be spending $40 for two weeks of groceries. When I say, "groceries" I tend to include all cleaning products, paper products, hygiene items and diapers. With that in mind, I'd be spending only $40 for two weeks worth of everything, if I saved $70 like some say they do. Your response was that you don't buy groceries at wal mart, but everything else you do. I don't know if you were responding to me specifically (you said Carol and others), but I wanted to clarify what I meant by, "groceries."
Becky - posted on 07/13/2010
Walmart has the best deals on diapers that I have found. We used to buy the Kirkland diapers at Costco, but found that if we wait for a sale at Walmart, we can get a bigger box of Pampers (which I prefer anyways) for cheaper. We don't have Target etc here - wish we did! So, for cheap stores, our options are pretty much Walmart and Superstore. I hate Superstore. Some of their policies are stupid and it's just too big and busy. And, I've actually found that the Walmart Supercenters have better produce than Superstore does.
I don't generally shop either for groceries though, I usually go to Sobeys. I'll pick up milk or yogurt at Walmart if I'm there and we need it, but if I'm going specifically grocery shopping, it's at the grocery store.
Kelly - posted on 07/13/2010
"@Kelly.. If you have said that, then WHY when people are telling you they CANNOT AFFORD TO SHOP AT ANOTHER STORE, YOU KEEP IMPLYING THEY SHOULD???? Do you not even remember what you have been writing??? Yeah, that doesn't make ME sound ignorant, it makes YOU sound ignorant."
I am NOT implying that people who cannot afford anything but walmart should stop shopping there--in fact, My EXACT words were " If walmart is all you can afford, then by all means, shop there." However, I went to walmart today and it is not really cheaper.
My Walmart Experience.
I went to walmart to day for the first time in over 7 years. I do not use coupons, they are too time consuming and if walmart is "always cheaper" I shouldn't need them to get better deals. I took receipts from last week and compared items. I could have saved a whopping $9 for 2 weeks worth of stuff at walmart. The produce was of poor quality and WAY over priced--$1.50 for a green bell pepper! $2 for a red one! I can get both for 99cents at the farmer's market. Most of the apples were $2+ per lb. I can get 4 apples for $1 at any produce stand. Even the squash was like $1 a lb. The only thing I found cheap were bananas, which were still green (a plus for me) and only 48 cent per lb. I have to get those at Bi-lo and they are usually around 80cent per lb. The pasta and can goods matched Bi-lo for the most part. Sugary kid cereal was cheaper by about $1 per box, but warm cereal and healthy cereal was more expensive. Detergent (dish & laundry) was less than Howerd's Pharmacy or Bi-lo by 50-60 cents. I couldn't find my brand hand soap or liquid dish detergent.
Most of the smaller stores around here will price match printed ads and take competitors coupons, Bi-lo also triples coupons on Wednesdays, so if I shopped that way, I would probably be spending the same at walmart or at the local stores.
I saw several major brands that I am familiar with and use in car seats, small appliances, and cookware, but I could not find any of the clothing or shoe brands that we use, so I couldn't compare those prices. The clothes and shoes were much cheaper than what I buy, but the quality was bad--many of the clothes were off in the fit and had loose threads or unfinished hems. The shoe brands they carried had little to no arch support or firm cushioning, so I wouldn't trust them on my son's foot.
I didn't have time to look at the whole store, they might have better prices on toys and such, but I don't have time to compare prices on items I don't buy often.
Side note: The atmosphere in Target is WAY better than walmart--if I'm going to go in a box, I'd go with Target, but that could be personal preference. There was stuff piled up in the aisles and clothing racks were so close together that a stroller would have been impossible. Also, there were 28 registers (they were numbered, I didn't count them) yet only one actual cashier was working and 4 self checkouts. I HATE self checkouts. I'm sorry, but if I'm going to shop somewhere, the least I expect is for someone to bag my stuff and take my card. Also, there are no sales associates (I have no idea how they create jobs--I only saw 6 workers in the whole place--and it was huge!). I saw one person in the whole store (aside from the cashiers, greeter and pharmacist & tech) and when I asked her where detergents were she said "I don't know, look at the signs." Ugh.
Good Day! - posted on 07/13/2010
I typically spend no more than $3 on a 32 load bottle of laundry detergent (purex, gain or tide). I spend anywhere between $3 and $7 on a jumbo package of Huggies. I spend less than $1 on toothpaste (Crest of Colgate). I recently got 8 bottles of Pantene shampoo and conditioner for $1 each. I got my John Frieda mousse for $2 a can.
I did not get any of that at Wal Mart. So I still fail to see why people insist wal mart is the only place to save money. If wal mart works for you, that's fabulous. But it is totally possible to spend the same or less in other stores.
Here is a fabulous printable coupon website:
Charlene - posted on 07/13/2010
@Carol and those asking how people save so much.
When I shop at Wal*Mart it's rarely for groceries (it's not a Supercentre) so it's mostly for things like diapers, wipes, laundry detergent etc.
On the diapers alone I save anywhere between 10-14$, depending on the sale at the time. Sometimes I save even more when I have coupons. Wipes, I generally save 3-5$. Laundry detergent, since I am allergic to most of it, I have to get a specific brand and it's 2$ cheaper at WM. On a good day, I'm already up to 21$ in savings and that's not even half my shopping list.
And to the Canadians.. if you are looking for coupons try www.save.ca
You go on it, pick which coupons you want and then put in your address and they will send them right to your mailbox. It's great. :)
@Kati, Gracie's name is Gracie Elizabeth Ruth. (And yes, it's Gracie on her Birth Certificate) :D
Elizabeth is my middle name and it was my paternal grandmother's and great grandmother's as well. :)
C. - posted on 07/13/2010
I didn't say that the smaller stores won't take your coupons at all.. Many of the smaller stores, even the chain stores, do not price-match and do not double coupons. WM does both. I have never had a problem with WM taking my coupons. Maybe it's your area?? Maybe you should write to Corporate and let them know they are doing that. Usually when you complain to Corporate Management, they are more than helpful and either set the employees straight about the policy or are more than happy to find someone else for the position. It helps if you can remember the names of who you talk to, as well. Sorry :/ I've never had a problem so far.
"Christina P. I have said three times in this thread that I AM NOT REFERRING TO PEOPLE WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO SHOP ELSEWHERE!!!!! Read it before YOU sound "ignorant"."
@Kelly.. If you have said that, then WHY when people are telling you they CANNOT AFFORD TO SHOP AT ANOTHER STORE, YOU KEEP IMPLYING THEY SHOULD???? Do you not even remember what you have been writing??? Yeah, that doesn't make ME sound ignorant, it makes YOU sound ignorant.
"I am intrigued by how much you all are saying that you can save, and I am temped to go to walmart today, just to compare. I generally spend about $200/month on food and such, so I find it difficult to believe I can get everything I usually buy elsewhere for $130 at walmart, so I'm going to try that today. If my tally comes to less than $130, I'll shut up. But I still won't shop at walmart, b/c, yes, I do have the extra $70 to spend, and I have moral standards that they just don't meet."
It also depends on your shopping strategy. If you use coupons and have them price match, you can save even more.. And it also depends on the area in which you shop, b/c every area has slightly different prices, it depends on the average income of the city/town.
Hannah - posted on 07/13/2010
Our Sunday paper sucks for coupons and the coupons they do have I don't use that often. I have heard of this one website, I think it is called couponmom.com or something like that. I guess they have awesome coupons. I recently ordered our paper for the Sunday coupons only to be disappointed.
Good Day! - posted on 07/13/2010
Kati, Walgreens comes out with new deals once a week. If you really are interested in starting to coupon (yes it's a verb now!) start here:
Keep in mind, starts slowly! You'll burn out if you do everything at once. Start with one small step, and when that becomes second nature, go to the next step. And you don't have to do everything this website says. Just pick the things that work for you and your family.
This is what I do: On Sundays I clip my coupons and put them by category in my coupon organizer. On Tuesdays I get my Winn Dixie flier in the mail. I make my two week menu based on what meats are on sale that week. Then I make my grocery list based on the menu. Then I go through the coupon organizer to see what coupons I have for the items on the list. On Wednesday or Thursday I go shopping at Winn Dixie and usually stop by Walgreens to pick up some of their deals. Also, if something is on sale (canned corn for ten cents for example) I stock up. I buy as much as the budget can afford and the cabinet can hold. It's also important to note that I don't buy something just because I have a coupon or it's on sale. If I normally wouldn't buy it, I throw that coupon away. On the weeks I don't do my big 2 week trip, I'll go and buy just milk and fresh produce, if I don't make it to the farmer's market that week.
I hope that helps, even a little!
Good Day! - posted on 07/13/2010
Carol, there are also a ton of good organic coupons available. I use the P&G and SmartSource coupons for toothpaste and feminine items and diapers (haven't made the switch to clothe yet..too close to potty training to worry with it...will start with my next kid :)). Anyway, if you search the websites of your favorite brands, you can usually find a ton of coupons. I print off a couple from Stoneyfield and Cascadian Farms.
Christina, I've never had an experience where a smaller chain or mom and pop store didn't take my coupons. Usually they are more than willing to keep me happy so I'll shop in their store. I have had trouble with Wal mart accepting my coupons on more several occasions and at more than one wal mart. I know Wal Mart's coupon policy and can recite it to them, but it inevitably ends with a confrontation with the manager and is much more trouble than it's worth. I'm glad you haven't had that experience with Wal Mart, and I hope you never do.
Rosie - posted on 07/13/2010
how long do the benefits from walgreens last? do they expire ever? i spent a good portion of last night reading through the blog and it is very intriguing. but much like carol, i don't know where to get coupons. i did a survey once and they send me things in the mail quite often, some i use, but most of the time the coupons are like 35cents off here and there, sometimes $2 for diapers (which i no longer need!! whoot whoot!! well only at night, :( )
my neighbor does what that lady is talking about with the coupons, he always is telling me of deals, he cracks me up. "kati, go run to hyvee, they got 77 cent 2 liters of mt dew, i got coupons for a buck, you;ll get money back! do you want any bacon, i hate bacon but i got coupons for 2 dollars off and fareways got em for $2. i'll get you like 8 ok?"
it just seems like a lot of work, and i have no clue where he gets his coupons other than ebay. he used to have a friend that worked for the paper-until the guy got fired for taking all the coupons, so hubby def. won't do that!!
anyhoo, i just wanted you to know that that blog was helpful, and i'll start looking into some of that stuff! ;)
LaCi - posted on 07/13/2010
lol sorry. that was a lot longer than I anticipated.
LaCi - posted on 07/13/2010
Congressman George Miller releases a report on Wal-Mart's labor abuses and hidden costs.
While Wal-Mart highlights the value it brings to the consumer -- always low prices -- much has been documented about the treatment of their U.S. employees. WalMart workers earn much less than their unionized counterparts, are only allowed to work about 32 hours a week with no overtime, and often have difficulty receiving their benefits.
Working Conditions in the U.S.
While working conditions in the U.S. do not come anywhere near the difficult conditions some foreign workers must endure, American employees of Walmart still endure poorer working conditions than their counterparts at other retail boxstores and grocery stores.
Although they are the largest employer in the United States, WalMart wages for workers fall well below union wages and other retail workers. In addition, WalMart workers are less likely to receive health benefits, and a full time schedule for most associates is only 32 hours a week - with no overtime.
The hidden cost of working at WalMart is the dependence by many WalMart workers on public assistance - costing tax-payers millions of dollars every year.
From Wal-Mart’s Labor Record, a report by Representative George Miller, February 16, 2004:
Wal-Mart is undercutting labor standards at home and abroad, while those federal officials charged with protecting labor standards have been largely indifferent. Public outcry against Wal-Mart’s labor practices has been answered by the company with a cosmetic response. Wal-Mart has attempted to offset its labor record with advertising campaigns utilizing employees (who are euphemistically called 'associates') to attest to Wal-Mart’s employment benefits and support of local communities. Nevertheless – whether the issue is basic organizing rights of workers, or wages, or health benefits, or working conditions, or trade policy – Wal-Mart has come to represent the lowest common denominator in the treatment of working people.
Also from the report:
Wal-Mart’s rampant violations of workers’ rights figured prominently. In the last few years, well over 100 unfair labor practice charges have been lodged against Wal-Mart throughout the country, with 43 charges filed in 2002 alone. Since 1995, the U.S. government has been forced to issue at least 60 complaints against Wal-Mart at the National Labor Relations Board . Wal-Mart’s labor law violations range from illegally firing workers who attempt to organize a union to unlawful surveillance, threats, and intimidation of employees who dare to speak out.
Read the full Miller Report.
Working Conditions Abroad
Despite WalMart's push to customers in the early 90's to "Buy American" in 1999 they were the nation's largest importer. Foreign suppliers from around the world make products solely for Wal-Mart stores and several non-profit organizations have focused on monitoring the working conditions at the factories of the suppliers. Here are links to sites about labor standards.
 Labor Organizing in the U.S.
Canadian Wal-mart workers protest for a Union.
Since 1998, The United Food & Commercial Workers International Union (UFCW) has campaigned to unionize all of Wal-Mart's domestic operations. Only a meat department in Jacksonville, Texas actually elected to unionized. Two weeks later, Wal-Mart announced plans to only use prepackaged meat. Butchers would be phased out across the country. (see "Trying to Overcome Embarrassment, Labor Opens a Drive to Organize Wal-Mart," New York Times, 11/8/02)
Wal-Mart's Reaction to Organizing
Wal-Mart has aggressively and successfully blocked any attempts to unionize its stores or distribution centers. When a unionization campaign is mounted for an area, Wal-Mart quickly deploys special "resource teams" to dissuade employees from unionizing. Moira Herbst from the Labor Research Association described Wal-Mart's typical reaction:
"Because Wal-Mart is notorious for its union-busting tactics, the union and the workers know that winning won't be easy. It is well documented that at the first sign of worker interest in a union, Wal-Mart brings in "response teams" from its corporate headquarters in Arkansas. They hold captive audience meetings and show anti-union videos, and punish union supporters by cutting their hours or simply firing them.
"Managers are handed manuals on how to keep the store union-free. The company offers managers financial compensation as incentives to lower overheads--the largest component of which is payroll. Managers pressure employees to complete assignments off the clock.
"Given the company's anti-union extremism, it is no wonder that none of Wal-Mart's stores or distribution centers are organized, except for one unit of 11 meat cutters in Jacksonville, Texas."
The United Food & Commercial Workers International Union (UFCW) maintains a national campaign to unionize Wal-Mart. In support of their case, UFCW offers facts & figures on wages, health care, workers' rights to unionize, women, safety, and fair working conditions. The UFCW has has hired disaffected managers as organizers and created a radio show to criticize Wal-Mart's working conditions.
In March of 2005, Ryszard Tomtas, a Polish immigrant who fled to the US after being involved in the Solidarity movement in Poland in the 1980's, was fired from his job at Wal-Mart. His employers told him he was fired for "horseplay" after 12 years of employment, but he believes he was fired because he signed a union card in December and planned to organize a union at his distribution center. After being fired, Mr. Tomtas went on an 8-day hunger strike in protest. Tomtas said if he had gone on a hunger strike in communist Poland 20 years ago, entire churches would have shown up to pray with him, and crowds would have gathered to support him. UFCW is working with Mr. Tomtas on filing charges against Wal-Mart.
State Organizing Campaigns
The UFCW also maintains a site that highlights unionizing campaigns in each state.
Here are some additional U.S. labor organizing links.
 Labor Organizing Abroad
Articles About Labor Organizing Abroad
Links to Sites About Labor Organizing Abroad
 Union Busting
Articles related to Union Busting
 Discriminating Against Women
Wal-Mart vs. Women is a website started by Carolyn Sapp, the 1992 Miss America.
Articles about Discrimination against Women
Links to sites about Discrimination against Women
Wal-Mart is a defendant in a historic class action law suit alleging that the company discriminates against women in promotions, jobs assignments, training, and pay throughout the United States. The class action could potentially cover 1.6 million women and cost Wal-Mart billions of dollars, either as a court-enforced judgement or as part of an out-of-court settlement. Visit http://www.walmartfacts.com/keytopics/de... to view Wal-Mart's statement on the issue.
On June 22 2004, U.S. District Court Judge Martin Jenkins certified the case as a class action, finding that six current and former Wal-Mart employees from California may represent all female employees of Wal-Mart who worked at its U.S. stores anytime since December 26, 1998. The case is known as Dukes v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. (N.D. Cal. No C-01-2252). Read the judge's decision on class certification
The driving force behind the suit has been the Impact Fund. If you are a woman who might have a claim, you can contact the Impact Fund by calling 1-877-WOMAN-WM (966-2696). Or, you can write to WOMAN-WM, P.O. Box 7158, Berkeley, CA 94707-0158. All communications are entirely confidential and protected by the attorney-client privilege. No fee will be charged for any legal advice or for joining the national class.
To see another story about the Impact Fund, click here
Other resources discussing Wal Mart's discrimination against women:
walmartversuswomen.com/ This website was started by Carolyn Sapp, the 1992 Miss America.
 WalMart Wages
Wal-Mart says the majority of their hourly store associates in the United States work full-time. The average hourly wage for regular full-time Wal-Mart associates in the U.S. is $9.68 an hour.
 Community Relations
Protesting Wal-Mart and suburban sprawl.
Competing with WalMart
"Outsmarting Wal-Mart", CNN.Com, 3/23/05
Wal-Mart has historically been an environmental disaster. According to WalmartWatch, Wal-Mart "has a history of building large stores in environmentally sensitive areas, has been cited by the EPA for Clean Air and Clean Water violations, and is, in its own words, responsible for nearly 250 million tons of greenhouse gases each year."
Wal-Mart took a major change in direction in October 2005, when CEO Lee Scott announced that Wal-Mart would follow three environmental mandates: to use only renewable energy, to produce zero waste, and to sell sustainable products.
However, Wal-Mart has continued to force its way onto environmentally protected land. In October 2009, it began lobbying to take the Northern Pine Snake off of New Jersey's endangered species list so it could build a store on one of the last remaining areas of its habitat. 
Wal-Mart does not yet have a goal date of complete renewable energy use. However, they have made major changes in their energy usage.
"In November 2008, Wal-Mart announced a major purchase of wind energy that will supply up to 15 percent of the retailer’s total energy load in approximately 350 Texas stores and other facilities."
"Wal-Mart is now the largest private producer of solar power in the United States, with nearly 40 stores fitted with photovoltaic arrays." According to Wal-Mart's website: "In Puerto Rico, the company is planning to outfit up to five stores with solar panels this year, and expects the project to expand to 22 stores by 2014. Additionally, Wal-Mart de Mexico will eliminate approximately 140 tons of CO2 emissions annually through the completed installation of more than 1000 solar panels on the roof of the Bodega Aurrera Aguascalientes." By October 2010, Walmart plans to provide 20 to 30 percent of their California buildings' energy through solar panels.
Energy Efficiency and Zero Waste
Wal-Mart spends $500 million a year researching and implementing energy-efficient technology. This amounts to 0.1% of its net income.
In 2005, Wal-Mart announced it would increase its truck fleet's fuel efficiency by 25% in 2008 and 200% by 2015. By 2008, the fleet's efficiency had increased by 38%. Wal-Mart is buying hundreds of new aerodynamic trucks and retrofitting older models with more efficient engines. It is currently experimenting with diesel-electric trucks and trucks that run on brown waste cooking grease taken from their stores.
Also in 2005, Wal-Mart announced plans to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 20% across its established store and distribution base by 2012. It plans to retrofit 500 stores with energy efficient technology and has created a new store prototype that uses 25 to 30 percent less energy.
Wal-Mart also plans to get all of its appliances Energy Star-rated.[http://www.good.is/post/the-good-100-wal...
On July 19, 2009, Walmart officially announced a forthcoming "Sustainability Index," a rubric by which all of its products will be compared based on a ser PDF The rating system will not grade each individual product, but rather make available transparent facts and statistics about a product's greenhouse gas emissions, solid waste, and water usage, among other things, to create sustainability competition among suppliers and to inform customers. It has been criticized for not taking into account toxic chemical use, energy efficiency, or recycling/disposal at end of use.
The Sustainability Index will be hashed out by a Consortium, led by professors from University of Arkansas and Arizona State University and including Wal-Mart competitors (Target is one) and suppliers.
 Political Involvement
Wal-Mart, through its Political Action Committee Wal-Mart Stores Inc. For Responsible Government, gives more money to U.S. political candidates than any other corporation. For a state-by-state breakdown, see Political Money Line. Some statistics from Wal-Mart's contributions:
PAC Name: Wal-Mart Stores Inc. For Responsible Government
91% of Wal-Mart's candidate contributions are to incumbents
72% of Wal-Mart's candidate contributions are to Republicans
Total donated to candidates in 2003: $1,528,500
to Republicans: $1,212,000
to Democrats: $316,500
Total donated to PACs: $294,000
Total donated to political parties: $128,000
to pro-Republican organizations: $70,000
to pro-Democrat organizations: $18,000
All FEC filings by Wal-Mart Stores Inc. For Responsible Government
Kelly - posted on 07/13/2010
Christina P. I have said three times in this thread that I AM NOT REFERRING TO PEOPLE WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO SHOP ELSEWHERE!!!!! Read it before YOU sound "ignorant".
"AND BTW, chain stores LIKE Wal-Mart provide BETTER JOBS w/ BETTER BENEFITS. I don't see how that is such a bad thing for a community. Obviously you are bitter towards larger chains b/c your friends have to compete with them, but you know what? Larger chains bring more jobs for the community, not small mom and pop shops. So which is better? Having about 50 MORE unemployed citizens in your area, or 50 LESS unemployed citizens?? Thought so."
You "thought so"? YOU THOUGHT WRONG! Small businesses do not bring as many jobs individually as larger ones, but together they create about 50% of the workforce. My business is closing this year (due to the new healthcare law, not walmart) so I guess you think it is better for my 37 employees to go work at walmart for $8 an hour and no vacation time than it was working for me where they were salaried at $30k+ with paid time off? I'm sure EVERYONE is just dieing for walmart to run their employers out of business so they can go work for walmart and the like. That is stupid--or to put it in your own words--ignorant. Small businesses bring a lot of jobs, and they are often better jobs, and treat their employees better.
I am intrigued by how much you all are saying that you can save, and I am temped to go to walmart today, just to compare. I generally spend about $200/month on food and such, so I find it difficult to believe I can get everything I usually buy elsewhere for $130 at walmart, so I'm going to try that today. If my tally comes to less than $130, I'll shut up. But I still won't shop at walmart, b/c, yes, I do have the extra $70 to spend, and I have moral standards that they just don't meet.
Sapphire - posted on 07/13/2010
Well since I'm far behind on this (been back to work now) I'll tell you that Walmart actually DOES help the community. When I completed my principal Internship last year, I organized a Car Safety Event and got the entire school involved. Walmart donated 8 booster seats and our targeted age was Kindergarten. (I then challeneged each grade level to donate boosters and ended up with 14 to give away) Target denied my request for booster seat donations, as well as Big Lots, and KMart. The day I picked up the booster seats, the manager handed me bags of left over Valentine's Day stuffed animals that normallay would be donated elsewhere, but she gave them to me. 3 HUGE bags that we were able to use this year. Walmart also allowed the 8th graders to set up donation tables at the store-front for National Jr. Honor Society-something the other stores did not allow either. So for those who knock on Walmart, there are also positive experiences. For those who feel high & migty & superior for shopping elsewhere and supporting the local economy 100% of the time, well congratulations-you are super woman-attitude is everything. Since I shop only 50% of the time at the local stores, I suppose I'm just your average person out there saving whenever and whereever I can.
C. - posted on 07/12/2010
You're welcome! I hope you can get some good coupons :)
Johnny - posted on 07/12/2010
Oh, okay. I'll try the coupon websites. I don't generally buy products from companies like P & G or Kimberly-Clark, but perhaps if I google those I do buy from, they might have something. Thanks!
Hmmm... I'm not even sure what brand this TP is...it's so no-name it's got no name, lol. Perhaps I should look into Costco specific coupons.
C. - posted on 07/12/2010
There are several coupon websites you can go to (just type 'coupons' into the search engine). Also, what I do a lot of the time, is I go directly to the manufacturer websites (like P&G, Kimberly-Clark) and you can sign up for coupons there.. Sometimes they send you a good-sized book of coupons. I know in the US, the Sunday paper has tons and tons of coupons.
Johnny - posted on 07/12/2010
Where do you all get your coupons from? I check all the fliers, and very rarely do I find coupons for the stuff I buy. Sometimes for my dishwasher detergent, laundry or dish soap, and occasionally for stuff like Tylenol, but never for the food I would buy. Is there an online coupon place you use?
C. - posted on 07/12/2010
@Carol.. Yeah, I have such a big family.. My son and myself.. HUGE! ;)
No, it's not just groceries, it's toiletries, laundry detergent, clothing, shoes for my son b/c he grows too fast to buy expensive stuff, diapers/wipes, training pants and things of that nature.
Also, Wal-Mart price matches with competitor prices and you can still use your coupons, which a lot of mom and pop shops absolutely refuse to do (and even some chains still). So that's how you save BIG at WM. And you also wait for things to go on sale b/c it's generally cheaper at WM to begin with.. Wait for something to go on sale or clearance and that will REALLY rack up the savings.
Good Day! - posted on 07/12/2010
I agree Carol. I don't see the savings as being that significant. If I saved $70 per trip, I'd only be spending $40 AT MOST every two weeks on groceries. When I used to shop wal mart, I don't ever recall spending that little on groceries for two entire weeks.
Johnny - posted on 07/12/2010
This thread has me puzzled. There must be stuff that I am forgetting to buy, because when people talk about saving $70 in a shopping trip I am perplexed. There is no way on earth that Walmart or other big box stores could offer me big enough savings that I could save $70 on my groceries & sundries. That would be like 40-50% off. My budget just isn't that big. What the heck does everyone buy?? Is this just food spending because you have big families?
I buy the majority of my vegetables at the farmer's market and we grow a lot of our own. We buy our meat in bulk, the quarter cow butchered from the organic meat ranch. We get our pork & chicken in bulk from the wholesale butcher, it all comes from the Fraser Valley, near here. I get canned goods, rice & cheese from a local grocery store called Famous
Foods that sells a lot of bulk stuff (like the lentils, beans, rice by the sack etc.). I get pasta and specialty canned items from a store called Bosa which imports specialty products in bulk and cans them for sale here. That place has the most AMAZING bargains. And our eggs my husband buys from a guy at work who has his own chickens.
The only thing I buy from the Superstore is bottled water and some clothes for my daughter (awesome deals & great quality, but most likely made in China). My dish soap and laundry detergent I buy from the IGA which carries this amazing locally made product called VIP which is biodegradable & super cheap. I get toilet paper & dishwasher detergent from Costco.
I don't have my own membership, so I take my mom and we stop each other from buying extra stuff we don't need. It CAN be hard to resist, it's good to have a support, lol. We make our own cleaning supplies & use reusable wipes most of the time, so I don't buy much of that stuff. My hubby made me go cold turkey off of my Mr. Clean wipes. It was hard.
I do shop at Safeway & Walmart when I get gift cards from work. My downfall is Starbucks. I am a total caffeine junkie. I would prefer to go to an independent coffee house, and I would if there was one anywhere near my home or work. But the only other choice is Tim Hortons and that is NOT coffee IMO. When there is another choice for my fix, I will always go elsewhere than Starbucks. I need a 12 step program.
As for clothes, for Michaela I get a lot of hand-me-downs or I go to the consigment stores. If I can't find what I need, I go to the Superstore. We use cloth diapers and wipes, so we don't buy those. I don't really buy many clothes for myself. I try to frequent local boutiques, and I often wait until we visit my husband's home town because it has the greatest shopping at wonderful cheap little stores.
We used to buy a lot of our building supplies and stuff at the Home Depot, but we have been getting a lot better at not going there. Now we go to Dick's Lumber, which is local or Windsor Plywood. Unfortunately the Home Depot & Rona have successfully driven out virtually every single small independent hardware store. Very sad. And ever since I read a few things about Ikea and how its products are designed to fall apart, be disposed and re-purchased, I haven't been back. We've actually found that we spent less on our last furniture purchase than we would have if we'd bought the similar product there. Except that it is solid wood instead of veneer and was made here by hand. And they delivered & assembled it.
C. - posted on 07/12/2010
Quoting Kelly H: "Kati, you can't save as much $$ shopping at smaller businesses as you can at walmart. You will never be able to save more $$ at a small business than at walmart. I just can't believe that saving a few dollars is so important to anyone that they can justify supporting a company that knowingly uses dirty tactics to run small businesses out of business. These people have spent their entire lives building these businesses and running these businesses, they are proud and passionate about their services and products, and they are loosing everything because people would rather stand in line for 15 minutes to use a self checkout just so they can save $20."
Kelly, I have saved hundreds at Wal-Mart before by buying things that I NEEDED. It's not just a few dollars here and there and quite frankly, I think I speak for a good portion of the women on here when I say that I don't appreciate you making it out to be a smaller issue than it is. Maybe you have the luxury of having money to burn wherever you choose, but most of us do not.
AND BTW, chain stores LIKE Wal-Mart provide BETTER JOBS w/ BETTER BENEFITS. I don't see how that is such a bad thing for a community. Obviously you are bitter towards larger chains b/c your friends have to compete with them, but you know what? Larger chains bring more jobs for the community, not small mom and pop shops. So which is better? Having about 50 MORE unemployed citizens in your area, or 50 LESS unemployed citizens?? Thought so.
I am all for the small businesses, I want to start a business of my own when I get a degree in business management, but you cannot deny the fact that some people don't have the extra financial cushion to spend $70 more at a smaller store. If you do, that's great. But most of us don't. And I know these ladies are big girls and can stand up for themselves, but it really grinds my gears when someone acts so ignorant when it comes to money and other people's finances. These ladies know what they can and cannot afford, so just back off. And YES, sometimes spending an extra $50 is a big deal, especially if you are behind on rent/house payments, have to worry about gas to get your kids to school or food for their bellies and have to pinch every penny possible.
Like I said, I'm glad you don't have to worry about it, but apparently you are better off than some of the rest of us, myself included. Good for you, that's wonderful, but don't jump down someone's throat when they can't afford to shop elsewhere.
Sharon - posted on 07/12/2010
I don't know how they do it, they tend to be nicer looking stores. The ambience there is nicer than any walmart I've been in.
I wonder if I could get away with some dig cam shots of both stores? walk in, take random pics, like what I see from the front doors, approaching a register... then compare them
Just thinking about it? I know straight off the registers at target are WAY less cluttered than a walmart register. I'm also way less tempted to make impulse purchases.