Was this teacher out of line?

Brandi - posted on 03/13/2011

It is humiliating to a child, maybe not to an adult. It is called belittling.

Brandi - posted on 03/13/2011

Should be, but like I said, she can make a call... doesn't have to be after hours, she could do it during the day on a break or something. If you are a good teacher, you will do whatever it takes.

Isobel - posted on 03/13/2011

I really don't understand that notes being pinned to you is "humiliating"...did the definition of that word change since I was a kid?

Isobel - posted on 03/13/2011

exactly how many hours overtime are teachers expected to work making all of these after hours phone calls and home visits?

your kid should be able to get a note to you. period.

Brandi - posted on 03/13/2011

Let me just say that I discipline my kids. I have no problem discipling them when they deserve it. I have no problem being told by a teacher or anyone if my child acts badly. If that is the case, I do something about it.

So, with that being said, like I said before, she was out of line.

If the parent did not receive the letters from the teacher, she could have called her. She could have called her after hours, and she could have had a conference over the phone, or scheduled an in person conference. Then, if nothing was done about it, then they could have suspended the CHILD as punishment to get the parent's attention. I DO NOT think public humiliation is right, especially not to a child. There were better, more mature ways to go about this if a simple letter home did not work. Also, my children are sent home everyday with a behavior chart that has to be signed, maybe the teacher should start this in her class, or the whole school should.

Desiree - posted on 03/13/2011

Nice poor teacher she just can't win. If she doesn't do anything then shes is a bad person and doesn't know how to do her job. If she does do something then she is still a bad teacher incapable of doing her job. Rubbish if she has tried to get through to the parent, then the parent is at fault for not bringing her child into line. She should be the one to disipline her child, well she isn't doing a very good job if the teacher had to resort to such drastic measures. Which I don't see as a problem any way. If anyone was humiliated it was the parent and not the child, he would have forgotten about quite quickly. It was mommy dearest who got embarresed because all her friends and the other parents now know how lax she has been in dealing with his behaviour. I definatly don't side with mom at all.

Isobel - posted on 03/13/2011

You would be humiliated because you are an adult and SHOULD be able to handle getting a note to it's intended place...when a child loses notes CONSTANTLY (like I did) pinning it to that child is kinda the only way to make sure it gets to where it's going.

Sarah - posted on 03/13/2011

While I don't think that the teacher should be fired, I still don't think it was the right move to make.

On another note (haha) Carolyn said : The other thing to consider is all it takes is one kid to interfere with the learning of the rest of the class. Should all the other kids have their lessons continuously interrupt by the little shit, not be able to focus because he is talking and what ever other behaviours are presented ? hell no.

While I agree that other children shouldn't have their learning interfered with, I also think that a more constructive thing for this teacher to have done would be to try and get to the bottom of WHY he is acting out so much in class.

Rather than further calling attention to him, or humiliating him (I would feel humiliated if say, my boss stapled a note to my shirt. So I expect he DID feel humiliated) I think it would be better to deal with the matter privately.

I'm not saying I'm totally on the Mum's side or anything, I just feel like there was probably a better way to deal with things and that there may be problems the child has that should be addressed.

Carolyn - posted on 03/13/2011

It sounds like her employer is backing her up on this one , so this to me leads me to beleive there is way more to the story than the article and mother would like for us to beleive.

this day in age, so many places, will throw an employee under the bus to save face especially with media coverage and to just make things go away.

I wouldnt apologise either. Maybe if my employer said I had to do to keep my job, then possibly. But if my employer supported me and my decision, hell no.

Mom forced the situation by not following up on the progress reports and teaching her child proper behaviour. That fact that mom requested these reports in the first place screams misbehaved child.

The other thing to consider is all it takes is one kid to interfere with the learning of the rest of the class. Should all the other kids have their lessons continuously interrupt by the little shit, not be able to focus because he is talking and what ever other behaviours are presented ? hell no.

It would have been psychologically damaging to parade him around the class, and announce that he was having a note stapled to his shirt because he was a bad boy. that didnt happen. The note was fastened, and a sweater put over it. To me it would have been more psycholigically damaging to be discplined verbally in the middle of class,

There is also a difference between holding them accountable, and ruining their life because you disagree with a method used.

I have had to deal with my shared of horrible employes in a variety of situations but would never set out to purposely get someone fired as a means to hold them accountable for their actions. And i have seen alot worse than a note being stapled to a shirt.

H.J - posted on 03/13/2011

The teacher made unwanted physical contact with the child. I did not state that she hit the child but that she put her hands on the child's person by puting a note on the child. Which is still an invasion of the child's personal space



I think the real issue is the lack of responsibility taken by the teacher for her actions. She hasn't even issued a formal apology to the parent or child.



In Australia there is a code of conduct for teachers that states: teachers should refrain from conduct that could cause psychological damage to a student.



What the teacher did in this country would be seen as damaging psychologically to the child and therefore a breach of the code of conduct and cause for dismissal. I don't think it is extreme at all to make the teacher accountable for their actions or to ask that action should be taken against the teacher

Jenn - posted on 03/13/2011

Fired over a pinned note? Seriously? I think that's pretty extreme H.J.H. And to say the she put her hands on him makes it sound like she hit him or something. There are times when you might have to touch a child - let's not get carried away here and say that there should never be physical contact between 2 people. What about helping a child up who fell down - would you still think that she was invading a child's space? After all, she would have to put her hands on them.

H.J - posted on 03/13/2011

Honestly I would be seeking the teachers dismissal. There is no reason for a teacher to ever put their hands on a child's body, this is an invasion of the child's personal space. I do not care how unruly a child is there is no reason to staple a note to the child's clothes. I would be Irate if they did that to my son. I have never heard of that ever happening here in Australia. I hope I never do!



For the parent to have contacted the media I believe she must have been unhappy with the response from the school and the education department.



What was wrong with an email or a phone call and failing that going to the child's house? There is never a need to humiliate a child in front of his peers like that. What message is this sending to the rest of his class?



This teacher should be putting in their resignation if they can't deal with a child talking in class by other means than humiliation. The education department should be making an example of this teacher rather than supporting this teachers actions.



Article 29 (Goals of education) of the United Nations Convention of the Rights of a child states: "Children’s education should develop each child’s personality, talents and abilities to the fullest. It should encourage children to respect others, human rights and their own and other cultures." This teacher failed this child's basic rights under the UN convention.



If this happened to my child they would be ripped out of the school so fast. This is outrageous. He is 7yrs old for crying out loud. He is a child the teacher an adult... the teachers actions were that of a child, not an educator. She needs to educate this child why it's not okay to talk in class not humiliate him.

Rosa - posted on 03/12/2011

well i bet this kid won't act up in class again, so it worked

Kori - posted on 03/12/2011

I feel bad for the kid...if the teacher really wanted to make sure the parents knew she could have phone the childs mom!

Kori - posted on 03/12/2011

I feel bad for the kid...if the teacher really wanted to make sure the parents knew she could have phone the childs mom!

Jodi - posted on 03/12/2011

AND, we all know 7 year olds will lie to save their own skins. If he had the choice between mum getting mad at him, and the teacher getting mad at him, he'd choose the teacher, so he would go with whatever story mum says, and just agree with her, especially if she seems pissed off.

Charlie - posted on 03/12/2011

One thing is for sure the mother needs to pull her head in .

Jodi - posted on 03/12/2011

OK, so I watched the video (I didn't notice that the first time when I read the article), and:



(1) the little boy sounded like he was reading of a script when he said "Everyone was starting to laugh at me and that's when I got the feeling I was angry and mad." But hey, that could also have been nerves.

(2) the teacher DID speak to the mother by phone at some point after this incident, so mum obviously has access to a phone when she wants to. So again, did the teacher attempt to call her, which I think she should have.

(3) Mum is the one who requested progress and behavioural reports in the first place, and she said she has been receiving them. But the teacher thought she had not been receiving them. Now, I may be barking up the wrong tree, but why is MUM requesting these reports?



Still too many unanswered questions. I still think, however, that by going to the media over it, she really is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Isobel - posted on 03/12/2011

but it would have to be intentionally imposed to be different...and covered by a sweater would suggest that the teacher was trying to be sensitive.

We don't really know whether this is a case of a jerk teacher (which it doesn't sound like to me or she wouldn't have let him cover it up) or an overly sensitive (which sounds FAR more likely to me based on the mad over-reaction of his mother) boy who needs to build a slightly thicker skin.

Charlie - posted on 03/12/2011

It's different when it is humiliation imposed on you by someone else though .

Jodi - posted on 03/12/2011

I agree Loureen, we don't really know whether the teacher tried to make a call, whether the mother ignored the notes, whether the child gave his mum the notes, who knows. And they are all relevant questions which would define how I feel about the situation.

Isobel - posted on 03/12/2011

Quentin told me the same thing about the fact that he spilled his juice down his shirt...should I stop sending drinks?

Charlie - posted on 03/12/2011

It's hard to debate it when we know so little of what really happened .

Charlie - posted on 03/12/2011

Just wanted to add some children can deal with this without it becoming a problem , some children ( like me hehe ) relish negative attention from teachers and would use it as an opportunity to clown around and some children will be humiliated IMO if a child is humiliated by this it is a sign of guilt or frustration , a cry for help .

Jodi - posted on 03/12/2011

The article did say that the teacher claims she pinned the note and then put the child's jumper over the top, so no-one would have seen it. It seems like a bit of he said, she said. And if mum did receive the notes and just ignore them, and is not contactable by the school by phone, then really, who forced the child into this situation?

Charlie - posted on 03/12/2011

he expressed his humiliation when he stated : “Everyone was starting to laugh at me,” the child said. “That’s when I got the feeling; I was angry and mad.”

Being laughed at and teased is amplified when it happens at school to a person who is not mature enough or has the tools to deal with it .

Isobel - posted on 03/12/2011

I still don't see how that is remotely embarrassing...unless there was a tongue-lashing that went with it...like I said, I had a note pinned to me almost every day, cause if I didn't I would never have gone on a class trip, my mother would never have had a meeting, and she would've never known to send in money for things I needed.

At some point sometimes letters need to be attached if they are to find their way home. If you are sooooo sensitive that a letter pinned to your shirt is "humiliating" perhaps homeschooling is in order.

Charlie - posted on 03/12/2011

I find it pretty sad the disreguard people have for the childs feelings , it may not be humiliating to you , you may think it's funny ( hey you may as well have been one of the kids laughing at him making him feel like a piece of shit ) but that does not discount the fact he WAS humiliated .

Perhaps the mother is a tool , maybe she doesn't give a shit , maybe the boy DID give the notes to her so who in this picture is losing out ? the child , first he has no direction at home ( causing bad behaviour ) then he has a mother who doesn't give a crap and on top of it he has a teacher who publicly humiliated him in front of his peers ....

Good Day! - posted on 03/12/2011

Well, you seem to be a responsible person and a concerned mother. Some people are not, which makes contacting them very difficult. It's very hard to reach a mother whose phone gets disconnect and her number changes several times in a school year...especially if she doesn't bother to update her records with the school. :/

Jodi - posted on 03/12/2011

Ok, Sara, I never thought about those things. I guess I always figured that a phone call, and if no-one was home, at the very least a voice message, might be a better way of notifying than a note. I know that in the past, if a teacher has had to address an issue with my son (only happened twice, only once was a behavioural issue), I have always received a phone call, and we were able to resolve it quickly and easily.



I do think this mother went overboard, but just curious about why a phone call wasn't made. I would hope the the teacher at least made the attempt.

Isobel - posted on 03/12/2011

Every note I ever got was pinned to my shirt...I think we're all going a little over-board on what constitutes "humiliating" a child...come on now.

Good Day! - posted on 03/12/2011

@Jodi...sometimes phone calls are impossible. Like Sharon just said, phone numbers get disconnected. Some have no access to email. Parents work late hours, and are not reachable until after a teacher is at home. Notes should suffice. And when a parent doesn't respond to a note? Shame on them.

Sapphire - posted on 03/12/2011

Love it! I should try that with my 9th graders ;-)
I gotta say that there are certain parents that I have tried to contact that are simply unavailable. The phone # is disconnected, turned off, no answer, no reply to email, etc. If this teacher wanted to get the parent's attention-point scored for the teacher. Now, hopefully the parent, teacher, and student can begin to work together to work at the kid's behavioral issues in the classroom and move past the 15 minutes of fame.

Sneaky - posted on 03/12/2011

Classic!

Jodi - posted on 03/12/2011

I am curious as to whether perhaps the telephone exchange or mobile phone network was down in the area, because honestly, I would expect a teacher to phone me if they were having continual problems with my child, and really, how hard is that for them to do? Obviously there is an issue, I think the teacher is probably more likely to get a result with a phone call. To me, that just makes sense.

Sarah - posted on 03/12/2011

I think the teacher was wrong to do that.

Firstly, whose to say that he wasn't giving the notes to his Mum? Maybe he was and she just couldn't be bothered or didn't care enough to reply to them? Which could be the reason he was acting up in the first place, if his Mum doesn't take much of an interest. If she wasn't responding to the notes, then how is that the sons fault? Why should he be humiliated for her lack of interest.

Secondly, wouldn't a phone call home be the next logical step???

Even if he WASN'T giving the notes to his Mum, I still think that a phone call home to discuss matters would have been a more professional way to go about things.

If it was my child, while I wouldn't have rushed to the papers and made a big fuss, I would have been asking why I wasn't just called instead!

Meghan - posted on 03/11/2011

Hmmm, my friends have kids that are school aged and they all have the teacher's email and a few of them gave their emails to the teacher as well...that might be a better way of communicating a problem rather than trusting a 7 year old to remember a note.
BUT, I don't think the teacher did anything wrong. While 7 year olds can be forgetful, they do know when they are going to get in trouble for something, so "forgetting" to give mom the notes could have been deliberate. And to be fair...what people would have seen the note? The other classmates who saw him acting up? They already know he got into trouble so...kind of a MOO point!

Stifler's - posted on 03/11/2011

Bahahaha. No. That's hilarious. The mother sounds like THAT kind of parent. If she had responded to the notes before this wouldn't have happened.

April - posted on 03/11/2011

If somebody told me my children were acting up in class, i'd do something about it. It's still doesn't mean the teacher had a right to staple paper on his shirt. That mother might think her son is a saint but if any mother agrees that the teacher was wrong, it doesn't make them self-righteous. It's an opinion.

Deanna - posted on 03/11/2011

Get over it. What is the difference if it was stapled on or pinned? None. Just get over it, discipline your child for his misbehavior and move on.

You get bad notes home from the teacher and you are more worried about your son having to wear the note home? Really?

Sharon - posted on 03/11/2011

The teacher didn't do a damn thing wrong.

The teacher had tried to communicate with the parents before with no success. Stapling a note to a child is no big deal. I see no reaswon for the other kids to have laughed at him.

In kindergarten my son's teacher stapled his leftover lunch money to his shirt. It was in a tiny envelope with a note to please not send $50 bills to school. for all any of those kids knew - thats what the note was about.

Just what else was that teacher supposed do with the kid?

I can see all you self righteous "moms" are raising saints. God forbid anyone should tell you that your child is acting up in class. I'll bet, that just like the mom in the story, you'll ignore it because it just isn't true and if you ignore it, it'll go away, until it gets shoved in your face, then you'll get pissed off and raise hell because whatever it is, it isn't your kids fault. excuse me while I vomit.

April - posted on 03/11/2011

What the teacher did was wrong. Why humiliate a child? He could be the "bad boy" in class BUT he's a child. Children get embarrassed very easily and for the teacher to stoop to that level? There are so many other ways she could of handled that. Stapling a piece of paper on somebodies shirt? Seriously?

I'm not saying the boy and the mother are saints. The mother should learn some responsibility. The teacher on the other hand should learn to keep her hands off the students.

Nikki - posted on 03/11/2011

I think the parent is over reacting, I used to make bracelets out of important notes and tape them around the kids arms, or staple them around the handle of their bags. I probably wouldn't have been game to staple it to a shirt because no doubt I would have been sent an invoice to replace the shirt if there was a pin prick in it.

Brandi - posted on 03/11/2011

Way out of line IMO. If she was unsure if the parent was getting the notes, she should have taken the time to make a phone call. She should have called and either had a conference over the phone, or schedule to have one in person.

Jenn - posted on 03/11/2011

Good thing I'm not an idiot then Cherish. If you are going to make an attempt at attacking me and my reading skills, I suggest you first learn how to spell and use proper punctuation. If it makes you happier, I'll change what I said to this: "The fact that you would PROBABLY hit the teacher would explain why your child would be getting sent home with note after note about how they were getting into trouble at school." Is that more satisfactory?

Sherri - posted on 03/11/2011

Jenn M. I am with you 100%, LOL!! The teacher did nothing the wrong the kid sounds like a huge problem and maybe now the parents will actually take notice of the problem. It was a note for crying out loud, if it bothered him that much put your sweatshirt on, like he was told or take the note off when you leave the classroom.

Charlie - posted on 03/11/2011

I think the teacher is an idiot , really did they have to stoop to that level ?
There are so many other avenues the teacher could have taken the fact the child said : “Everyone was starting to laugh at me,” the child said. “That’s when I got the feeling; I was angry and mad.”
Shows they were humiliated , did the teacher cross the line ? yes.
Should the parent be more responsible ? yes .

Jocelyn - posted on 03/11/2011

Cherish, since this kid has gotten multiple warnings, that leads us to believe that he is the class's "bad" kid. It's not like his classmates would be surprised to see a disciplinary note stuck to him. I don't see it being humiliating since everybody already knows how he acts.

Jenn - posted on 03/11/2011

The fact that you would hit the teacher would explain why your child would be getting sent home with note after note about how they were getting into trouble at school.

Cherish - posted on 03/11/2011

what is wrong with you people? This is sad and just wrong the kids only 7 years old for christs sake..hes a CHILD. How would this not humiliate you? Imagine if someone stapled something to your shirt in front of people. You would be embarrassed to. That teacher needs to get sacked,, and if that was my child id prob hit that teacher