Welfare?

Krista - posted on 08/20/2009

Quoting Konda:

This is what get me Veronica, we are FAR from being upper class, my husband is a police officer, and for us to have the money we have, he has to work his regular hours and then on his days off he has to work what is called "extra-duty", it's not over-time, just like security for places that hire off duty officers. I guess that is why I have a problem with the "we deserve" attititude....my husband works damn hard too, yet with his normal income we don't qualify for anything and so he has to work rarely having a day off to have the things we need and want. Yes, we live in a nice home, yet we only have one vehicle, my son had speech problems, and yes we have insurance, but with co-pays, we now have a $2000 bill. So when people say that they deserve 'benefits', yes it tends to piss off some of those that maybe 'deserve' it too.

Just to point it out, but you're bitching about the same thing she's bitching about.  You're just doing it inadvertently.

DAWN - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Konda:

Quoting Veronica:


PS We get a nice sized refund from EIC -- -- it came in handy with helping us pay our bills off, we got beds for our kids, and took care of what we needed to when we couldn't before. So regardless of what is fair and what isn't - its not fair that my husband works his ass off for diddley squat to get diddley squat at tax season? I don't think so. I'm very grateful for EIC.

Ah yes, but it must be completely fair for my husband to work his ass off and get diddley squat back at tax time.....and yes we get it BACK, what we paid in, not $2K-4K more than we paid in.  EIC should be stopped and that is just a fact.  AND it IS a form of welfare, you are getting something for free, that is welfare. Regardless, it should be stopped, I am all for giving people back 100% of what they paid in, but not more than they paid in....and we get back about 20% of what we paid in, maybe.

Konda do you think it is fair for people to work their ass off but they still can't make it to the end of the month without dipping into a credit card? It is not fair for people to live in poverty, especially if they are working their ass off at a full time job or two. Honest hard working people deserve to live comfortable lives without worrying if their children will go to bed hungry or if they will have enough money to heat their homes in the winter. If my tax dollars go to help hard working people get on their feet than I am happy. If your husband gets a crappy return then you are obviously not living below the poverty line like many other north americans are so instead of judging others for useing these programs just be thankful that you are not in a situation to have needed them yet.

?? - posted on 08/19/2009

Yea - lets starve our families to prove Walmart that they're the devil !!!!!!!!!!!



I'm sorry - I understand that corporate bullshit is harsh and whatever but if my sons diapers are cheaper to get at Walmart than ANY OTHER STORE in town (cause the price of gas these days I'm not drivin 3 hours to the next city that will have a 'discount' bulk store where the diapers may be cheaper) then that's where I'm gonna buy his diapers.



I have Ferraro Foods - jacked up prices, Safeway - jacked up prices, Extra Foods - bad quality food and Walmart to choose from. Walmart is the cheapest for 90% of everything we have to buy. Food stuffs, veggies & meat - we buy at Ferrarro's.



I'm not gonna fight the evil corporations on my own and I definitely am not gonna pay any more than I have to just to avoid 'helping the evil cycle continue.'



I will add - I know the majority of the workers at Walmart here - my best friend worked there for 4 years, since it opened here - and they treat their employee's as best as they can here in my town. They work around students schedules, they try to accomodate everyone as best they possibly can. In the end - you can't please everyone.

Jenny - posted on 08/19/2009

But continuing to support them is creating the cycle of low paid employess that can only afford to shop there. They are not even manufacturing goods in your country so there is little to no economic benefit for the country as a whole. You may save a few dollars in the short term but the long term is devasting to the economy and is helping to create a population who needs welfare just to survive. I wonder if the Waltons divided up some of their profits how much of a raise they could give their employees?

Charlie - posted on 08/19/2009

The rich abuse power the poor abuse welfare , Everywhere someone is abusing something .



Majority of Aussies are on some kind of welfare payment , although ours differ's to America's somewhat .

Everyone receives $ 5000 dollars when they give birth per child ( this is now mean's tested ) but even people in a higher pay bracket get something !!

Most people receive a parenting payment in OZ .

~Jennifer - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Jenny:

Wal Mart is the devil and represents the turning point for where our priorities got screwed up. They provide cheap goods made in foreign countries which cause smaller stores to shut down wherever they set up shop. They don't take good care of their employees who they NEED to feed the machine while the family rakes in billions. I refuse to set foot in Wal Mart. They contribute nothing of true value to a community.

for me, it's a catch 22 situation....

I don't want to shop there....I don't LIKE shopping there....but sometimes 'there' is all I can afford and still be able to eat for the week.....

Sarah - posted on 08/19/2009

Eeeek! Was i ever wrong about Wal-Mart!! I work for the devil :(
Honestly tho, the book of benefits we received (money off days out and things) and the childcare programmes and flexi time and lots of other things at ASDA are really good.
Amazes me that Wal-Mart don't offer similar things.

Jenny - posted on 08/19/2009

Wal Mart is the devil and represents the turning point for where our priorities got screwed up. They provide cheap goods made in foreign countries which cause smaller stores to shut down wherever they set up shop. They don't take good care of their employees who they NEED to feed the machine while the family rakes in billions. I refuse to set foot in Wal Mart. They contribute nothing of true value to a community.

Joy - posted on 08/19/2009

Yeah, on the Wal Mart thing, they offer crappy benefits here. My friend worked for them for almost 10 years and I won't go into her horror stories but suffice it to say that Wal Mart pretty much IS the "evil corporation" that it gets made out to be sometimes. From what I've seen anyhow. On a funnier note, I applied for a job at Wal Mart about 7 or 8 years ago and when I took the drug test it came back "not human".....and they wouldn't let me re-take the test to prove that I am, indeed, human. LOL

?? - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Konda:

Quoting Jo:

How can ANYONE say they are MORE deserving than anyone else. If you don't like what you get - choose a different carreer/occupation. Only you control your life - not anyone else.

I don't understand why anyone would want to choose to be upset about someone feeling like they deserve help - especially if that person has worked THEIR ass off and paid in - it's no one's business but their own. They definitely don't deserve some bitter Bessy gettin pissy with them because they are accepting the help they deserve.

It seems as though there is a lot of unnecessary / illdirected anger and other feelings towards innocent people. Perhaps some personal bitter and annoyance needs to be addressed in some people's own lives.

Joy, I agree with you 100% - a house and a home are 2 different things. You can have the most beautiful HOME anywhere you make it. The most beautiful house - is just... a house. You have to make life what you want of it - assisted or not.

My reply about 'deserving' was because people someone said they 'deserved' it and 'high income' people do not.  I don't think we deserve any help....now I did think I deserved it when I was sick and didn't get any help except from my parents or I would have starved to death.  I am not bitter about anything.  Yet it is free programs that is killing out country(and yes the war too for those that want that added).  We need to help people get better jobs rather than just keep giving free programs.  States such as CA are completely broke and look at all the free programs they off.  People were not able to get their state refunds at all, I assume that included everyone, even low income that needed their money.  Like I said I am not bitter, and I was not bragging about having a nice house, we recently bought this house, before that we lived in a one bedroom house that my father had helped me build, it had a shower only, no bathtub for my child...so yes, I am proud that we were able to get a better house.

 

I think the so called middle class gets the shaft.....they aren't allowed to bitch about it either since they are in between, they certainly aren't rich, yet, we don't get any help either, but because we 'make it' from pay day to pay day, we should sit down, shut up, and just take it.  "It is not our business" that our taxes are higher and out insurance premiums are thought the roof, plus we still pay the co-pays and such. 

I think people that 'deserve' help should get it, but for a short time to get on their feet.  If you have a low income job, better yourself and get another one....police officers for the most part have only a high school education, so any one that is crime free can apply.

And again this is a debate board, so whatever the topic, is my business!

I find it quite interesting that you decided my post was directed at you.

But since you did I will reply - my finaces are none of your business and just because the topic is about welfare doesn't mean anyone's finances becomes your business.

Your tone in general is bitter. You seem to have a very bitter disregard towards people who feel they deserve their benefits just because you and your husband aren't getting what you feel you deserve.

You said it yourself - all you need is a HS education and be crime free to be a cop - well then perhaps your husband made the wrong career choice. He could have been a mechanic - you don't even need a HS education to do that in some places. You said your husband doesn't make that much and you don't make that much and you are or are not entitled to this that and another thing - I'm not goin through all the posts and getting technical here - "If you have a low income job, better yourself and get another one."

There's no reason to be angry or upset or "pissed off" at anyone other than yourself.

My dad - he provided a WONDERFUL home for 4 children and his wife as a logger. He got to grade 7 in school and has been a logger since he was 15 years old (he's 58 right now). He's STILL WORKING - goin strong!

The logging industry bombed a couple years ago and he's been in and out of work - it's only been the last about 5 years that finances have been hard on my parents. He gets EI when he's not working. 

He's basically PROGRAMMED to be a logger (very old fashioned man - working at McDonalds or Walmart is not an option - my dad can't even turn on a computer let alone work the machines either of those jobs would require, he'd go insane before he could understand that stuff.

He's back to work now - but for that time, my parents basically cut back to next to nothing compared to what the family was used too. They didn't bitch and complain about what they were getting because they knew if they wanted to change it they would have to make the changes - my dad put out near 250 resumes all across BC, Alberta & Saskatchewan trying to find work that he can do. It took almost a YEAR for him to find stable work - and it was from a family friend - not one of the 250 resumes that he sent out.

If a 58 year old man is willing to temporarily relocate to different provinces to provide his family the home they grew up in - I don't see why ANYONE can't do what they need to do. But if you're not willing to do it, then don't bitch and complain and just be gracious that you are getting what you get.

Sarah - posted on 08/19/2009

I think the thing is that EVERYTHING ends up getting abused by SOMEONE. Be it welfare, down to taking extra breaks at work. I guess i would rather that these systems are in place for those who use it correctly than not around at all. People are going to abuse it, benefit fraud will always happen but it helps people that need it too and that's the main thing.

That's weird Konda that Wal-Mart don't do things the same way. You should all start a protest to make it more like ASDA!! Sorry, i assumed that as Wal-Mart is our 'boss' it was them who implemented it. :)

Konda - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Sarah:


Konda mentioned not being able to afford daycare while working at Wal-Mart. I work at ASDA which is part of the Wal-Mart company and the schemes they have for childcare are excellent! They actually help you with childcare costs. If i ever start to do more hours and switch from evenings to days....i will certainly look into more. :)

Walmart here does not offer any help with childcare....I know this because 90% of the workers here(in my area) are single mothers.  I can only work so many hours.  It would be great to get childcare help, I have friends that work at our Walmart that could really really use it. 

I guess, I have come off with a poor attitude for those that get EIC, and I am sorry for that.  The people that I know that get it, blow every cent and then complain that they aren't able to afford this or that.  If the people I know had put that $5k they'd get every year on a decent vehicles or on existing bills, then they would have been so much better off.  I am sorry for lumping everyone into that same group...for those that use it for it's purpose, then that is great and you should get it. 

ME - posted on 08/19/2009

I stated above, and I will say it again. My hubby and I qualify for EIC, and NO OTHER forms of welfare! It's not a free handout, it's a tax credit. We get back ALL of what we pay in and no more!

Konda - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Jo:

How can ANYONE say they are MORE deserving than anyone else. If you don't like what you get - choose a different carreer/occupation. Only you control your life - not anyone else.

I don't understand why anyone would want to choose to be upset about someone feeling like they deserve help - especially if that person has worked THEIR ass off and paid in - it's no one's business but their own. They definitely don't deserve some bitter Bessy gettin pissy with them because they are accepting the help they deserve.

It seems as though there is a lot of unnecessary / illdirected anger and other feelings towards innocent people. Perhaps some personal bitter and annoyance needs to be addressed in some people's own lives.

Joy, I agree with you 100% - a house and a home are 2 different things. You can have the most beautiful HOME anywhere you make it. The most beautiful house - is just... a house. You have to make life what you want of it - assisted or not.

My reply about 'deserving' was because people someone said they 'deserved' it and 'high income' people do not.  I don't think we deserve any help....now I did think I deserved it when I was sick and didn't get any help except from my parents or I would have starved to death.  I am not bitter about anything.  Yet it is free programs that is killing out country(and yes the war too for those that want that added).  We need to help people get better jobs rather than just keep giving free programs.  States such as CA are completely broke and look at all the free programs they off.  People were not able to get their state refunds at all, I assume that included everyone, even low income that needed their money.  Like I said I am not bitter, and I was not bragging about having a nice house, we recently bought this house, before that we lived in a one bedroom house that my father had helped me build, it had a shower only, no bathtub for my child...so yes, I am proud that we were able to get a better house.

I think the so called middle class gets the shaft.....they aren't allowed to bitch about it either since they are in between, they certainly aren't rich, yet, we don't get any help either, but because we 'make it' from pay day to pay day, we should sit down, shut up, and just take it.  "It is not our business" that our taxes are higher and out insurance premiums are thought the roof, plus we still pay the co-pays and such. 

I think people that 'deserve' help should get it, but for a short time to get on their feet.  If you have a low income job, better yourself and get another one....police officers for the most part have only a high school education, so any one that is crime free can apply.

And again this is a debate board, so whatever the topic, is my business!

Sarah - posted on 08/19/2009

Ok, so i know things are probably done a little differently over here in the UK.....but my husband works 42+hrs a week, he pays his tax as he has done since whatever age you start getting taxed at. I've worked my whole life.....and paid my tax.
So it's not like we haven't 'added to the pot' so to speak.
We don't get a huge amount of benefits...but what we do get REALLY helps.

Konda mentioned not being able to afford daycare while working at Wal-Mart. I work at ASDA which is part of the Wal-Mart company and the schemes they have for childcare are excellent! They actually help you with childcare costs. If i ever start to do more hours and switch from evenings to days....i will certainly look into more. :)

?? - posted on 08/19/2009

How can ANYONE say they are MORE deserving than anyone else. If you don't like what you get - choose a different carreer/occupation. Only you control your life - not anyone else.



I don't understand why anyone would want to choose to be upset about someone feeling like they deserve help - especially if that person has worked THEIR ass off and paid in - it's no one's business but their own. They definitely don't deserve some bitter Bessy gettin pissy with them because they are accepting the help they deserve.



It seems as though there is a lot of unnecessary / illdirected anger and other feelings towards innocent people. Perhaps some personal bitter and annoyance needs to be addressed in some people's own lives.



Joy, I agree with you 100% - a house and a home are 2 different things. You can have the most beautiful HOME anywhere you make it. The most beautiful house - is just... a house. You have to make life what you want of it - assisted or not.

Joy - posted on 08/19/2009

Not everyone who qualifies for EIC qualifies for welfare. My husband gets EIC every year, before we were married and before we had our son. EIC is not just for people with kids....that's the child tax credit....totally seperate thing. As of now, we're married and have a son and we will be getting EIC and the child tax credit BUT we don't have food stamps, cash assistance or any other form of welfare except that my son has Medicaid and he recieves a small amount of WIC each month. Like someone earlier said, our little tax bonus has gotten us out of many holes, paid off many bills and saved us many times. Not everyone who gets this bonus each year spends it frivolously. If your income is above the requirements for EIC and if you live within your means, then you shouldn't NEED the EIC.



And not to be touchy or anything but my husband makes half of what a cop makes (the ones in my area at least). He works 6 days a week, 9+ hours a day. The reason we survive is because we live within our means. We don't have a "nice house", we have a "nice home and a nice landlord". We have one car (feul efficient and more importantly, PAID OFF yay lol). We don't go to movies or out to dinner. For birthdays and holidays we buy "us" gifts instead of individual ones. I clip coupons and price compare. This is what keeps us afloat. Not the EIC, child tax credit or any of that. My husband's hard work and my "thriftiness".

~Jennifer - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Konda:

Why wouldn't you apply for SSI for your son when he was born, or needed it? That is just silly, a disabled child needing help is nothing to ashamed of(I say that because you said you were too proud to apply). Good grief, not everyone fits into the same category, of course you need the SSI and whatever other benefits that go along with it....why does he have $7000 worth of bills if he gets Kid-Med, just curious?

I too COULD qualify for SSI, I know most people think mental illness is not a disability, believe me, when I was at my sickest, I damn well was beyond disabled. I will always be on medications, that cost me over $100 a month with just my co-pay. No, I don't know how people without insurance do it. I am not for people getting free healthcare(viable adults) but I think affordable healthcare is a MUST.

Of course you should not allow your family to be homeless, if you saw in my posts above you will see I always think the disabled and elderly should get whatever help they need, this includes your family obviously. And the reason I don't/didn't apply for SSI was because I could work at jobs like Walmart, or as a crossing-guard, and WANTED to, I was going crazy(no pun intended) sitting at home. You have a job, your job is to take care of your child...mine is also to take care of my kids now, but I know yours is much harder. I have a special place in my heart for all kids, and kids with disabilities are especially special. Good luck with your family, and I hope you can get that 5 years of back pay, that your son does deserve.

The bills were from THIS year.  We moved from PA to NC, he needed to see doctors, and our insurance here  threw the 'pre-existing condition' at us.  I had to appeal, but I certainly wasn't going to let him forego his medical necessities for the 3 monrths it took for the appeal to go through and the 3 months that they made him wait to be covered  afterwards....and at that time, we MADE TOO MUCH to qualify for Medicaid, PLUS the fact that Blue Cross would drop him from their plan if he had supplemental insurance.  (and you wonder why there's such a stink over health care reform)  Just in case anyone is wondering - the going rate for a non covered MRI for a child is about 4500 dollars. 

 My last EIC credit went to paying to move to a new state for a new job for my husband.  A job in solar technology....you know that recession proof job that should still be here because the whole US is going on that "energy efficiency' kick.  And no, it wasn't installing solar panels on houses....it was building and manufacturing solar power plants.   The executives at the company still have THEIR jobs. 

 My previous EIC credits  have paid my bills.  I may not have any money, but I have a damn good credit rating, because I don't 'piss my money away'.

You're right in your original post though......I seriously don't understand how people can thumb their noses at others for receiving 'the check' if it's someone that needs it - TRULY needs it.  I used to have neighbors that received 'the check' for their horrible back injuries (they were 28) and I used to watch them shovel snow in the winter in the pocono mountains.  Did I turn them in as frauds?  You can bet your sweet ass I did!  LOL!

Right now, under COBRA rules, my son can have the supplemental insurance with medicaid, so that will help immensely, but the 'back' payment from SSDI, from what I understand, only goes to the date which  we applied for his disability.   I'm not looking to have 5 years worth of back payments.  I just would like some help with whatever is to come in his future that I (now) cannot afford to give him.

Konda - posted on 08/19/2009

Why wouldn't you apply for SSI for your son when he was born, or needed it? That is just silly, a disabled child needing help is nothing to ashamed of(I say that because you said you were too proud to apply). Good grief, not everyone fits into the same category, of course you need the SSI and whatever other benefits that go along with it....why does he have $7000 worth of bills if he gets Kid-Med, just curious?



I too COULD qualify for SSI, I know most people think mental illness is not a disability, believe me, when I was at my sickest, I damn well was beyond disabled. I will always be on medications, that cost me over $100 a month with just my co-pay. No, I don't know how people without insurance do it. I am not for people getting free healthcare(viable adults) but I think affordable healthcare is a MUST.



Of course you should not allow your family to be homeless, if you saw in my posts above you will see I always think the disabled and elderly should get whatever help they need, this includes your family obviously. And the reason I don't/didn't apply for SSI was because I could work at jobs like Walmart, or as a crossing-guard, and WANTED to, I was going crazy(no pun intended) sitting at home. You have a job, your job is to take care of your child...mine is also to take care of my kids now, but I know yours is much harder. I have a special place in my heart for all kids, and kids with disabilities are especially special. Good luck with your family, and I hope you can get that 5 years of back pay, that your son does deserve.

Lindsay - posted on 08/19/2009

Just wanting to clarify. I have recieved EIC in the past but did not qualify for my kids to recieve any health insurance from the government, any childcare assistance, food stamps, housing assitance, etc. So while people may qualify for EIC, they don't have everything else handed to them. Everyone struggles, but the EIC in no way makes people rich. And, just because I didn't qualify for those other things doesn't mean that I don't want anyone else to have it. Now that we are making a little more money, I'm not opposed to people that still recieve it. I think it's a great thing and a great relief for families that work their ass off and to able able to have a little bit of hope that they will make it. I'm also not saying that people that don't qualify couldn't use the extra help but why not be thankful for what we do have? Let's all have a little compassion for those that need that little boost once a year.

~Jennifer - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Konda:

Quoting Jenn:

I'll trade you my EIC and my son's 7,000 dollars worth of medical bills this year alone for your 2,000 dollar bill and your retirement benefit.

 

Deal?

If you are able to receive EIC, then why doesn't your child qualify for Kid-Med(free care for kids)?  Now that is ONE program I am 110% for.  I understand Jenn that people have it hard, but a lot of people work damn hard for their money.  I want to help people, in fact I think that instead of keeping people in low income jobs and stuck in a place they cant get out of...espeically single parents, the government should help them got to college, or tech school and provide child care for them to do that.  Neither my husband nor myself have degrees, we both went to work for police departments right out of high school...well hubby did 4 years in the Navy first.

As for my retirement, yes, I can work, at certain jobs, and did when I was single and needed extra help, because even with the $1200(before taxes and insurance) I still didn't qualify for anything.  I worked at Walmart for 5 years before I met my husband and we got married and had children....we couldn't afford daycare if I went to work at Walmart, believe me we discussed it, and I cant so some types of work, yes even computer processing.  After I pay for my insurance and my children's insurance and taxes my retirement check is $700 a month.

My kid does qualify - he has since birth.  We have been able to take care of his needs up until the recession, so we never applied for what he was entitled to by law.

We have health insurance. We have an HSA account.  We pay our premiums from that account. 
My husband breaks his ass to support us.  You know what it got him?  Laid off when the recession hit.  We're receiving 364 a week on unemployment.   Great amount of money - that we've paid into all our lives- for a family of 4 with a disabled child and 7 grand in medical bills SO FAR this year.  We have 2 cars - 1 on the road.  The one on the road is a '95 and that's the newer one. 

My full time job is taking care of a child with cerebral palsy  (among other issues), and up until now, we've been doing it with no 'free money'.  Show me the job that my son will be able to do when he's old enough to work, and I'll gladly give up the EIC that helps us take care of him, and the disability claim that I finally HAD to make almost 5 years from the day that he qualified for the program.  Yes, that's right, we applied for it in July of '09.  Not January of '05 when he, by law, SHOULD have started 'getting paid'.

Tell me how many people that are able to work, don't, because their 'benefit check' is about equal to what they'd make in a diddly squat job. (and most diddly squat jobs don't offer medical insurance) 

Tell me how many doctors I can go to when my medical insurance premiums finally get too high to handle with the bills, rent, food and utilities coming first.  Then take away my EIC for being below poverty level - and WATCH how fast my ass applies for food stamps, utility assistance and section 8.   You couldn't blink that fast.

I've paid into these programs all of my life, and been too f'n proud to use them.  But there's no way in hell that I'll let my family fail when I have access and qualifications for the requirements of the programs.  I just CHOSE NOT to put my family on the system....and maybe that's because people say the shit that they say about the people who use it because they really need the help.

Maybe I should just let us all become homeless.....

Konda - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Jenn:

I'll trade you my EIC and my son's 7,000 dollars worth of medical bills this year alone for your 2,000 dollar bill and your retirement benefit.

 

Deal?

If you are able to receive EIC, then why doesn't your child qualify for Kid-Med(free care for kids)?  Now that is ONE program I am 110% for.  I understand Jenn that people have it hard, but a lot of people work damn hard for their money.  I want to help people, in fact I think that instead of keeping people in low income jobs and stuck in a place they cant get out of...espeically single parents, the government should help them got to college, or tech school and provide child care for them to do that.  Neither my husband nor myself have degrees, we both went to work for police departments right out of high school...well hubby did 4 years in the Navy first.

As for my retirement, yes, I can work, at certain jobs, and did when I was single and needed extra help, because even with the $1200(before taxes and insurance) I still didn't qualify for anything.  I worked at Walmart for 5 years before I met my husband and we got married and had children....we couldn't afford daycare if I went to work at Walmart, believe me we discussed it, and I cant so some types of work, yes even computer processing.  After I pay for my insurance and my children's insurance and taxes my retirement check is $700 a month.

~Jennifer - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Konda:

This is what get me Veronica, we are FAR from being upper class, my husband is a police officer, and for us to have the money we have, he has to work his regular hours and then on his days off he has to work what is called "extra-duty", it's not over-time, just like security for places that hire off duty officers. I guess that is why I have a problem with the "we deserve" attititude....my husband works damn hard too, yet with his normal income we don't qualify for anything and so he has to work rarely having a day off to have the things we need and want. Yes, we live in a nice home, yet we only have one vehicle, my son had speech problems, and yes we have insurance, but with co-pays, we now have a $2000 bill. So when people say that they deserve 'benefits', yes it tends to piss off some of those that maybe 'deserve' it too.

I'll trade you my EIC and my son's 7,000 dollars worth of medical bills this year alone for your 2,000 dollar bill and your retirement benefit.

Deal?

Konda - posted on 08/19/2009

This is what get me Veronica, we are FAR from being upper class, my husband is a police officer, and for us to have the money we have, he has to work his regular hours and then on his days off he has to work what is called "extra-duty", it's not over-time, just like security for places that hire off duty officers. I guess that is why I have a problem with the "we deserve" attititude....my husband works damn hard too, yet with his normal income we don't qualify for anything and so he has to work rarely having a day off to have the things we need and want. Yes, we live in a nice home, yet we only have one vehicle, my son had speech problems, and yes we have insurance, but with co-pays, we now have a $2000 bill. So when people say that they deserve 'benefits', yes it tends to piss off some of those that maybe 'deserve' it too.

Veronica - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Jenn:

Quoting Konda:

Quoting Veronica:

One more thing to add - to go with your statement earlier in the posting -- the EIC is a HAND UP -- it helps people like us - pay bills, get stuff for our kids, get food in the house, etc. etc. etc. -- it goes right back into the economy - so what is it of your concern? And more importantly what is it of your business??

Well I thought you were done with me....I wass happy...

It is my business because this is a debate in a DEBATE FORUM!!!!!  Read your own post in you 'bitching post".

Furthermore, I have compassion for those that NEED help....the elderly, disabled, and those that need short-term help.  It is not a hand-up if you continue to get it, give it one year, and that is a hand-up, keep getting it and it is a hand-out.

Are you saying you don't sound selfish and like a child...I do, but not you....---my husband words for diddley swat, so we deserve this free money----!    Please!!! 

 

.....kind of makes me wonder what people would do if there weren't people that worked for 'diddly squat' .......for example.....who likes to go out to eat?  Did you know that your waitress makes $2.35 an hour in the us and gets taxed on her TOTAL sales for the day, not her tips?   Did you know that the guy that changes your oil at the 'quick lube' makes about 9 bucks an hour? (but that's ok, I'm sure all of us change our own oil anyway)  That cashier at the department store....wow....he / she makes a fortune...but it's nice to have them there when you want to make a purchase.   The list goes on.  How many places would shut down without their diddly squat employees?

Maybe we should put income restrictions on having a family.  You know...you don't make "X" amount of money, so we'll steralize you, because we're taking away the one point in time where you get back a little extra money(EIC) since you WORK YOUR ASS OFF and are still considered 'below poverty level', but you know what? screw you being able to pay your bills off that have accumulated all year with the money you get back from EIC.  Sound like a good plan?

Maybe people shouldn't be 'retired' if they can still sit and type on a computer.  Data entry - there's a high paying job.  Probably MUCH more than their pension, right?  *eye roll*

What exactly is 'free money'?  Please explain that to me.

Thank you Jenn.

Nichole - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Veronica:

You have to work. And be under a certain income. And have kids. When you go to file your taxes next year - its almost automatically done - but you can talk to your accountant.

Again NOT a HAND OUT -- my husband works for this -- if he didnt work - we wouldnt get it !!

Thank you I will look into it when I file next next year. :)

Lindsay - posted on 08/19/2009

Nichole, I agree with Veronica. It's a tax credit that you will recieve when you get your tax return. You have to make above a certain amount and below a certain amount of money and it changes from year to year. When you file taxes and claim your child, if you fall into this bracket, you will recieve it. I think EIC is great for families with working parents. I recieved it a couple of years and was so greatful for it. We won't get it anymore because we are now making more, but I'm glad hard working families get the extra help when they need it. It's well deserved!

~Jennifer - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Konda:

Quoting Veronica:

One more thing to add - to go with your statement earlier in the posting -- the EIC is a HAND UP -- it helps people like us - pay bills, get stuff for our kids, get food in the house, etc. etc. etc. -- it goes right back into the economy - so what is it of your concern? And more importantly what is it of your business??

Well I thought you were done with me....I wass happy...

It is my business because this is a debate in a DEBATE FORUM!!!!!  Read your own post in you 'bitching post".

Furthermore, I have compassion for those that NEED help....the elderly, disabled, and those that need short-term help.  It is not a hand-up if you continue to get it, give it one year, and that is a hand-up, keep getting it and it is a hand-out.

Are you saying you don't sound selfish and like a child...I do, but not you....---my husband words for diddley swat, so we deserve this free money----!    Please!!! 

 

.....kind of makes me wonder what people would do if there weren't people that worked for 'diddly squat' .......for example.....who likes to go out to eat?  Did you know that your waitress makes $2.35 an hour in the us and gets taxed on her TOTAL sales for the day, not her tips?   Did you know that the guy that changes your oil at the 'quick lube' makes about 9 bucks an hour? (but that's ok, I'm sure all of us change our own oil anyway)  That cashier at the department store....wow....he / she makes a fortune...but it's nice to have them there when you want to make a purchase.   The list goes on.  How many places would shut down without their diddly squat employees?

Maybe we should put income restrictions on having a family.  You know...you don't make "X" amount of money, so we'll steralize you, because we're taking away the one point in time where you get back a little extra money(EIC) since you WORK YOUR ASS OFF and are still considered 'below poverty level', but you know what? screw you being able to pay your bills off that have accumulated all year with the money you get back from EIC.  Sound like a good plan?

Maybe people shouldn't be 'retired' if they can still sit and type on a computer.  Data entry - there's a high paying job.  Probably MUCH more than their pension, right?  *eye roll*

What exactly is 'free money'?  Please explain that to me.

Veronica - posted on 08/19/2009

One more thing to say -- maybe there is unfairness for the upper class -- but when you are making a lot of money throughout the year - what excuse is there for you NOT to have money? what would the tax refund really make a difference? that is how i feel about that -- but Im just going to say this - i am greatful that there is an EIC - its pulled us out of many disconnection notices, and has enabled us to get things for our children and household that we couldn't get before --- like beds for our kids. 5 kids equalled over 1300 dollars for beds and mattresses thank you very much.



So that is where I am going to stand on all hand ups, hand outs, and wellfare -- I praise and thank the Lord for providing.

Veronica - posted on 08/19/2009

You have to work. And be under a certain income. And have kids. When you go to file your taxes next year - its almost automatically done - but you can talk to your accountant.



Again NOT a HAND OUT -- my husband works for this -- if he didnt work - we wouldnt get it !!

Nichole - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Veronica:

One more thing to add - to go with your statement earlier in the posting -- the EIC is a HAND UP -- it helps people like us - pay bills, get stuff for our kids, get food in the house, etc. etc. etc. -- it goes right back into the economy - so what is it of your concern? And more importantly what is it of your business??

Veronica, I could really use this tax credit. My son is was born in feb. How do I go about getting this? Can you help me?

Konda - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Veronica:

One more thing to add - to go with your statement earlier in the posting -- the EIC is a HAND UP -- it helps people like us - pay bills, get stuff for our kids, get food in the house, etc. etc. etc. -- it goes right back into the economy - so what is it of your concern? And more importantly what is it of your business??

Well I thought you were done with me....I wass happy...

It is my business because this is a debate in a DEBATE FORUM!!!!!  Read your own post in you 'bitching post".

Furthermore, I have compassion for those that NEED help....the elderly, disabled, and those that need short-term help.  It is not a hand-up if you continue to get it, give it one year, and that is a hand-up, keep getting it and it is a hand-out.

Are you saying you don't sound selfish and like a child...I do, but not you....---my husband words for diddley swat, so we deserve this free money----!    Please!!! 

Veronica - posted on 08/19/2009

One more thing to add - to go with your statement earlier in the posting -- the EIC is a HAND UP -- it helps people like us - pay bills, get stuff for our kids, get food in the house, etc. etc. etc. -- it goes right back into the economy - so what is it of your concern? And more importantly what is it of your business??

Veronica - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Konda:

Quoting Veronica:


PS We get a nice sized refund from EIC -- -- it came in handy with helping us pay our bills off, we got beds for our kids, and took care of what we needed to when we couldn't before. So regardless of what is fair and what isn't - its not fair that my husband works his ass off for diddley squat to get diddley squat at tax season? I don't think so. I'm very grateful for EIC.

Ah yes, but it must be completely fair for my husband to work his ass off and get diddley squat back at tax time.....and yes we get it BACK, what we paid in, not $2K-4K more than we paid in.  EIC should be stopped and that is just a fact.  AND it IS a form of welfare, you are getting something for free, that is welfare. Regardless, it should be stopped, I am all for giving people back 100% of what they paid in, but not more than they paid in....and we get back about 20% of what we paid in, maybe.

Im not going to argue with someone who has no compassion. Its not worth it. And it BOO HOO poor YOU! waaawaaa -- thats all your argument sounds like is a petty baby cry.

Ive had and heard enough.

Konda - posted on 08/19/2009

No, EIC is an American thing....Earned Income Credit. People that make under a certain amount get a big fat credit at tax time.

Nichole - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Konda:

Quoting Veronica:


PS We get a nice sized refund from EIC -- -- it came in handy with helping us pay our bills off, we got beds for our kids, and took care of what we needed to when we couldn't before. So regardless of what is fair and what isn't - its not fair that my husband works his ass off for diddley squat to get diddley squat at tax season? I don't think so. I'm very grateful for EIC.

Ah yes, but it must be completely fair for my husband to work his ass off and get diddley squat back at tax time.....and yes we get it BACK, what we paid in, not $2K-4K more than we paid in.  EIC should be stopped and that is just a fact.  AND it IS a form of welfare, you are getting something for free, that is welfare. Regardless, it should be stopped, I am all for giving people back 100% of what they paid in, but not more than they paid in....and we get back about 20% of what we paid in, maybe.

What is EIC? Is this a canadian thing? I am in the states, so I do not know what this is?

Konda - posted on 08/19/2009

Quoting Veronica:


PS We get a nice sized refund from EIC -- -- it came in handy with helping us pay our bills off, we got beds for our kids, and took care of what we needed to when we couldn't before. So regardless of what is fair and what isn't - its not fair that my husband works his ass off for diddley squat to get diddley squat at tax season? I don't think so. I'm very grateful for EIC.

Ah yes, but it must be completely fair for my husband to work his ass off and get diddley squat back at tax time.....and yes we get it BACK, what we paid in, not $2K-4K more than we paid in.  EIC should be stopped and that is just a fact.  AND it IS a form of welfare, you are getting something for free, that is welfare. Regardless, it should be stopped, I am all for giving people back 100% of what they paid in, but not more than they paid in....and we get back about 20% of what we paid in, maybe.

Veronica - posted on 08/18/2009

I understand that all these free programs come from our taxes. But who really cares? Do you honestly care? I dont - if it wasn't for our taxes paying for these free programs - we wouldnt have food, or medical assistance. We are yo-yo's on the systerm because we do well, and then my husband would switch jobs, he has had health issues, and injuries that ended his jobs. -- But it is there when we need it, and Im glad its there for others as well. I'll tell you what thouhg - keep bitching about this and they will take it away and when you need it , it won't be there for you. I say WHO CARES. Its going for a good cause. And if someone is using/abusing the system WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS ANYWAYS -- am I right?? Is it any of our business -- sure the taxes are ours, but our taxes probably go to all kinds of things that we may or may not support. Is $$ really that important to you on earth, that we have to be selfish about it??

Heed this phrase woman: "THE MORE YOU GIVE, THE MORE YOU GET" Let's change the way we think, and stop being so stingy and selfish.

PS We get a nice sized refund from EIC -- -- it came in handy with helping us pay our bills off, we got beds for our kids, and took care of what we needed to when we couldnt before. So regardless of what is fair and what isnt - its not fair that my hsuband works his ass off for didley squat to get didly squat at tax season? I dont think so. Im very greatful for EIC.

DAWN - posted on 08/18/2009

wow! racism against Mexicans and manicures all in the same thread. I do not even know what to put here except if all social programs are a form of welfare then I myself am on welfare. yep, I get the $100/ child under 6 that every Canadian gets. GUILTY!

Krista - posted on 08/16/2009

Here in Canada, all families with children under the age of 6 are entitled to the Universal Child Care benefit, which grants you $100 dollars a month until your child is 6. As well, SOME families are given the Canada Child Tax Benefit, which is granted based on income. Last year I did not qualify for it, but this year I am receiving about 12 dollars. This money comes from your taxes paid out and what not.

As for welfare in the usual sense of the word.....I believe that if you TRULY need it, then you should get it. That is to say, if you are unable to work for medical reasons or are just not able to find a job. I do NOT think people that are of sound health and mind and who refuse to look for a job should be entitled to it. Unfortunately, the latter would be very hard to regulate and this is how the money gets abused.

?? - posted on 08/15/2009

All this has done is prove that if you assume more than you actually know about people that you have never even met, you're going to end up angry and frustrated at the wrong people. It is your choice to assume of course - anyone can assume all they want about me and what I have and how I got it and how much it cost and however ripped off you THINK my Aunt was, who is a cosmetologist. Her speciality... manicures and pedicures. If we want to get technical; a Professional manicure - is simply cleaning the finger tips, forming the finger nail and POSSIBLY painting them as well - all the other junk, isn't even 'necessary.' And in most reputable salons unless you specify that you want all the other junk they won't do it - but they will charge you extra for it. At least every salon I have been too works that way.

I've worked since I was 15 years old, I've busted my ass to go to the places I have gone, learn the things I have learned and now I have this gorgeous lil boy and the very little benefits that I get make it possible for me to feed him, diaper him and get an education fund going for him. And in November those benefits will be gone and I will be a SAHM and my partner will be supporting us. So I'm not going to apologize to anyone for accepting the money and help that I have worked my ass off for, for 10 years, so that my family could get situated.

Sarah, that is exactly my point - it doesn't take much to snoop out some good deals on designer names - and if you live in or around a big city - it doesn't take much to find immitations of those designer brands. AND people who are usually down on their luck - if they have any sort of compassion in their families - family members usually buy things for them. My aunt is ALWAYS buying expensive shit for her daughters family because they are struggling and she always says "They can work hard to keep themselves together, and as long as they are doing that, I don't mind splurging for them to give them a reminder of what they are working for."

All I've been tryin to say is - you can't assume you know EVERYTHING about EVERYONE because of the brand of clothes they are wearing or the nails they got done or the hair they got did. And why would you want too? If you're not gonna report them to the proper authorities... why bitch about it? Might as well report them - it's not like they could hide all their Jordans, Timberlands, Gucci bags, Sean Johns, Ralph Laurens, whatever-the-fucks in time for a surprise visit from a social worker - if someone honestly feels that those people can't PROVE they made the money to pay for the things then report them and get over it already.

And I also said I know there are a lot of people who abuse the system - it's just completely ridiculous that everyone with a brand name or their hair done or their nails done even MIGHT be ripping off the system. There's 10 year old girls who get their nails done here... it costs about $50 to get your nails done here (and that's clean, shape, acrylic french manicure in either white, black or red) professionally done - it doesn't take much to save up $50, and it isn't hard to make $50 babysitting or raking leaves or cutting grass or washing windows or doing any number of small jobs.

Everyone just needs to stop assuming. Although I am gonna assume that Nichole just needed a vent and choose to do so with me as a backboard. That's cool. I can appreciate your frustration and how your lack of information about me makes it easy for you to assume you know me from one little sentance about manicures lol

Sarah - posted on 08/15/2009

From my own personal view, i think it's quite easy to look smart, have nice clothes and nails if you know where to go. We have a great store called TK MAXX and it's all designer gear at really low prices.
Just because someone takes a pride ion their appearance, doesn't mean they abusing the system.
Just my opinion :)

Sarah - posted on 08/15/2009

Yeah exactly, but we don't need to go into great detail about the price, cost and equipment of manicures. That's all i'm saying. :)

ME - posted on 08/15/2009

This is just the kind of judgement, anger, and frustration that I was talking about...let it go, what good does it do you to hang on to it?

Nichole - posted on 08/15/2009

Quoting Sarah:

I hate to break this up, but we're supposed to be debating welfare not manicuring.
Thanks! :)

Sarah, this debate is about welfare and how the men and women come into the office all done up with there hair and nails done professionally and in designer clothes who are abusing the system but when someone really does need assistance they make it almost next to impossible to get because your income is on the books and obviously theres isn't.

Sarah - posted on 08/15/2009

I hate to break this up, but we're supposed to be debating welfare not manicuring.
Thanks! :)

Nichole - posted on 08/15/2009

Quoting Jo:

Nichole, professional manicures don't entail everything you just mentioned - unless you're a completely useless boob like Paris Hilton and NEED all the extra bullshit. In FACT - I can paint with nail polish with painting brushes on fingernails that look 100 x better than air brushing.

I don't charge my friends for my time, or my nail polish - because I have family that know my passions, my hobbies and have been gracious enough to provide me with the lil things like nail polish and paint brushes and acrylic and I was even given a $2000 manicure set when I was FIFTEEN - that was 10 years ago. In 10 years, I have accumulated more than enough by buying things here and there and gifts given to me from various people in my life to be able to give my friends professional maincures without it costing me a penny. My son is 9 months old, I have been on benefits for all of a year and if you read my post before hand you would see that all of that money goes to HIM.

You should probably have taken a step back and realized that assuming you know where I got what I have, what I use and how I spend my money, (even though I already said where all the benefit money I get, goes - which really is none of your business to begin with) before you posted - you just proved my point about how assuming is so utterly useless. But good job on the defense Two thumbs up.

Who ever paid $2000 for a manicuring kit for you got ripped off. When I was in cosmetology school 10 years ago my cosmetology kit cost me $1500 dollars which included all the supllies to do nails, hair and skin. The school I went to also had an nail program and an esthetician program. There kits were a little cheaper cause they didn't get the whole thing just there sections. The nails kit included everything from polish to acrylic, the drill, the air brush machine with some paints, tips, files, a fake hand to paint on, numerous other products and there kits were $800.

Nichole - posted on 08/15/2009

Quoting Esther:

Quoting Nichole:

And wow Jo you do professional nails for free in your home that is super nice and must cost you a fortune. Those air brush machines start at $200 and each different color of paint is $3 a piece. A jar of acrylic is around $20 with the monomer it's around $50. 500 tips cost $50 alone. The nail drills are also pricey starting around $125 without the bits and those bits can get pricey too ranging from $10-$50.
And wait you are on benefits? Maybe all the money you used to buy all the expensive equipment to do PROFESSIONAL nails in your home should have been used another way.

Nicole, that last sentence is getting very darn near to crossing the line into a personal attack (as a matter of fact, it did cross that line) so I would ask you to please refrain from that going forward or I will have to delete your posts.

That wasn't a personal attack at all and you feel that you need to delete it then go right ahead be my guest. It's prooving to her that she does not do professional in her home, the one's I am talking about that I have seen at the welfare offices. Fist she would need to be licensed to even do "professional" nails.  I AM a licensed cosmetologist(which means I can do hair, nails, skin care, ect in any shop) and I know professional nails when I see them and these nails certainly cannot be done in someone's home. I do agree that some one can paint designs on nails and have it done nicely but not the way these nails are done. Acrylic also goes bad after a certain amount of time because it will dry up. All I am saying is I am not assuming anything about these people, These people ARE in fact abusing the systems. Having that much cash on them at the store and being so nicely kept.

ME - posted on 08/15/2009

I also know the frustration of making 200$ less a month then is required for public aid...My husband and I had to leave our lives in Denver, CO. to be closer to my parents. They are practically like public aid, tho, and they don't make us feel bad about it. They paid our first months rent, they often buy my son diapers, they babysit for free, and my mom will be providing child care for free two days a week so that I can go back to work this fall. My parents also like to buy our son clothes...in fact, other than a very few things I've found in resale shops, some with the gymboree, or janie and jack tags still on, I've bought him NO clothes. We got VERY nice things for our son at my baby shower. A beautiful travel system, a baby einstiens bouncy seat, clothes, toys, etc. My parents bought his bedroom furniture...Even tho we are pretty tight for money, my parents know that it is important for my hubby and I to get to go out to eat, or to see a movie...or to get haircuts...or whatever (not all of the time, but when we really need it). We aren't frivolous with our limited money...but we are also not dead, and buying a new maternity shirt to wear, or a pair of pants without holes for my hubby doesn't make them (my parents) angry or judgemental.



I've begun to understand that the only attitude and behavior that I have any control over is my own. If I choose to be angry about not recieving aid, then my life will be colored by anger. If I choose to be judgemental of others that I do not know, then my life will be colored by judgement. If I choose to live in fear of other people, then my life will be colored by fear. If I choose to hate those whose circumstances, feelings, needs, and desires I am unaware of, then my life will be colored by hatred. None of these emotions harm the people at whom I direct them (unless I use my vote or my fists to hurt them), but these emotions ARE harmful to me, to my family, and most of all, to my son. He doesn't need to learn to be angry, fearful, judgemental, or hateful. So, instead of allowing these feelings to take over my life, I choose to let them go, and instead face the world, and all it's peoples with ONLY compassion. They are, after all, human beings, just like me.

Esther - posted on 08/14/2009

Quoting Nichole:

And wow Jo you do professional nails for free in your home that is super nice and must cost you a fortune. Those air brush machines start at $200 and each different color of paint is $3 a piece. A jar of acrylic is around $20 with the monomer it's around $50. 500 tips cost $50 alone. The nail drills are also pricey starting around $125 without the bits and those bits can get pricey too ranging from $10-$50.
And wait you are on benefits? Maybe all the money you used to buy all the expensive equipment to do PROFESSIONAL nails in your home should have been used another way.

Nicole, that last sentence is getting very darn near to crossing the line into a personal attack (as a matter of fact, it did cross that line) so I would ask you to please refrain from that going forward or I will have to delete your posts.