Welfare

Emma - posted on 05/05/2012

Canada's welfare program isn't working. They fail to provide an adequate amount to allow their cases to live safely. Their administration is awful as well, and they routinely are late for or miss appointments.

Jennifer - posted on 10/07/2010

The welfare programme in the UK is working and isn't working. The majority of people who are on Job Seekers Allowance, Income Support etc. genuinely need it, the minority don't. My stepmum works in a job centre and she says "you know who's genuinely looking for a job and who's sitting on their arse all day doing nowt". Here as far as I know people who are on drugs or are alcoholic cannot claim job seeker's allowance as they aren't fit to work, but they are able to claim income support and offered rehab, which is free for anyone as on the NHS everyone can get free healthcare. When my husband and I got our first flat neither of us had a job so he was on JSA for about 7 months until he found a job. I continued to try and find a job but couldn't and if you have a partner/husband here, if they work you can't claim anything. I think the biggest problem now is the lack of jobs available and the number of jobs being lost. Even my hubbys been told he may lose his job as they're cutting public sector jobs. Times are unpredictable and you never know what's gonna happen - today might be fine then tomorrow you may lose your job or break your neck and be unable to work so it's important that welfare programmes are in place. As for those who cheat the system a lot are convicted here and there's even a programme being broadcaste don tv showing cases of different people who were caught and convicted =]

Ashley=) - posted on 10/07/2010

LMAO i know of two people who were reported for benefit fraud and what...nothing was done..its to easy for some.

Elizabeth - posted on 10/07/2010

Emma wrote:I also know people who scam the system and say they are "separated" but they are living in the same house as their partner who makes $150k a year and they are getting single parent benefits and are engaged.
-----------------------------------------
You could always report them.

Elizabeth - posted on 10/07/2010

Its not only drug addicts that abuse the system, its everyone. Its just that everyone knows someone abusing the system yet, does nothing about it.i think if more people took a stand than the system would be revamped.

Elizabeth - posted on 10/07/2010

I think they should be aimed for the working class, not the ones that sit home and pop out kids.

Liz - posted on 10/07/2010

I don't know how it works in other countries and I know different states have different guidelines. In Montana you can receive cash assistance for a maximum 64 months throughout your lifetime. You also have to document time spent job hunting and participate in the work program. So basically if your on it for more then 3 months (I think) with no work you have to volunteer a certain amount of hours or you lose your benefits. Montana doesn't have a work program for food stamps and I think they should for intact families with a parent at home. Single working parents obviously work hard enough. But I don't have a job right now and would have no problem volunteering some time every month to earn my benefits. Most families with 2 working parent either don't qualify or get very little. It may not sound right to single out two parent families with a stay at home mom or dad but I don't see why it would be so hard to set aside maybe 5 hours for every hundred $ you receive a month.

Shana - posted on 10/06/2010

I think it is helpful when people don't completely rely on them. I mean in New Zealand now they have made it that you can stay on the unemployment benefit until your child is 3. Which makes sense because when they are 3 you are entitled to 20hours a week free childcare. But then again, we don't have enough jobs out there for people who even want to work. I have no idea where the government intends on finding 50,000 jobs when there aren't any. I guess that plan would work if the jobs actually existed...That and it is virtually impossible to get a job. I mean my partner has been looking for over a year, everywhere and anywhere he can think of, but nothing. Oh well, best keep trying and fate will smile on us eventually. Lol.

Tah - posted on 10/06/2010

@Liz..then you are not who i am talking about....you seem to be getting defensive when i have explained that...you had a baby after your situtation wasn't at it's best....but..how can i explain it..okay example.....21 year old..has 4 children and has been on welfare since...well forever, because technically her mother was getting it for her and by the time she was in high school she was having babies and then getting assistance on her own. Do you think she went on birth control and stopped having children, got a job, went to school and tried to better her life...no she gave the child 3 siblings, meanwhile her benefits increased and she added them paying rent for her to get out of her mother's home, (who by the way is still on welfare for her younger children) and utility assistance, she does nothing all her day and sells her food stamps that are left over for extra cash...now if this is your situation..well then yes, i am talking about you....but it sounds way different to me.



I know many like her..too many. I have a friend who is also a nurse but has a special needs son so she can't work full-time and her children's father sucks big time(no job, education, etc).....and they made her do so much to get a little help that she just said screw it and struggles. His ssi depends on how much she makes so if she does any extra hours her ssi goes down to next to nothing for the next month. She knows some of the same types of people as I and a couple said to her that they see how bad she struggles trying to do it on her own and she has a nursing license and is also back in school so it's easier to do what they are doing then to educate themselves and trying to get off the system.....



It is funny because i was actually reading this thread in class and when i went to the front of class to have my professor explain what his comments meant on my draft for my paper, a woman was up there and she said.."i hate the welfare system, it is a breeding ground for laziness"..i almost gave her this website so she could come on here, i just thought it was funny because i was just on here with my laptop and i was thinking, she has a point and would fit right in...lol..anywho...i know women who are not 21, but 31 and 41 and have been abusing the system...i absolutely think it is there for when you need it, and in this economy i think some may need it longer than others, and i understand that. I also think that time should be taken to do things like attend school or job hunt....not sit and make more babies and not try to provide a better life and example for them.

Liz - posted on 10/06/2010

Tah-I do get food stamps and my children get medical, my husband and I don't get medical. The state only helps with a portion of our grocery bill. I have worked very hard to get off assistance to only have something happen to put my family back on more then once. The most recent time was about a year ago when my husband lost his job, and my ex made it so we had to move back to the Bitterroot to fight for custody of my oldest. My husband was unemployed for over 9 months and I haven't been able to find a job since we moved here. When we planned for our youngest our situation was very different and shortly after I became pregnant our lives changed. My family pays taxes too.

Tah - posted on 10/06/2010

i also know people who have taken their children's piss to jobs and other places they needed to take a drug test for. I actually do agree with Sharon's number 1...don't have children you can not afford. I am not talking about people who had children and then their business failed or they lost a good paying job, or their husbands lost their jobs. I know that those women would do whatever it took to help out, go to work, school whatever. I am talking people who have children and have no way to care for them other than the goverment. Those who get section 8 which gives them their rent. I know people who pay 50 bucks a month for nice houses in good neighborhoods because they get that assistance. They know they are going to get wic and an increase in food stamps, and then they have the utilites helps program as well as insurance. So if your rent, health insurance, food, and utilities are paid by the goverment, or us taxpayers, and has been since child 1 and you are now on child 4..then Sharon is talking abot you and i am also.



I said before welfare is good for those who need it. Those who have fallen on hard times and need help..we have all been there, whether we used the system or not, but it is not there to be used and abused and take care of you for life while you keep having babies for other people to care for.

Stifler's - posted on 10/06/2010

I also know people who scam the system and say they are "separated" but they are living in the same house as their partner who makes $150k a year and they are getting single parent benefits and are engaged.

Chatty - posted on 10/06/2010

"there are a lot of bad spending habits people have that aren't limited to drugs and alcohol." ~ Liz

YES, there are!

Liz - posted on 10/06/2010

I know quite a few people who will go out to eat at least once a week, or to the movies regularly, or spend $100 or more at the Salon once a month, while on assistance (its a small town) and then hit up the local church to pay for there gas. The point I am trying to make is there are a lot of bad spending habits people have that aren't limited to drugs and alcohol.

Sherri - posted on 10/06/2010

Because Liz how would you possibly know that someone is on assistance when they go to the movies, or shopping, or out to eat?? I don't know anyone who does such things. I am on assistance and on occasion I do take the kids out to eat not often but around 1 a month but remember we also work a 40+ hr a week job and we went on assistance when the economy plunged and my husband lost his well paying job. So I had all of my children before I was ever on assistance and we hope to end that coming up very soon.

Liz - posted on 10/06/2010

Sharon-I can agree with reasons 2, 3, and 4 but reason 1 I can't agree with.

"1. to many assholes cranking out to many kids, they can't afford to feed & clothe."

Most of the people I know with multiple kids who are in the system are there because the economy problems have put them there recently. I am an exception to that, along with a few people I know, because I couldn't really afford the first one but now I have 4 and I have been on food stamps, my children on medicaid, for about 4 of the last 8 years off and on. Never cash assistance though. Not something I'm proud of thats just how life has played out so far.

As far as the drug issue goes. Most drugs are out of your system quickly and it would just be a waste of time and money to test. Education won't help unless jobs are available, but we will always need people in the lower class work force (like myself) who work just as hard or even harder then the educated upper class america. Also many educated people I know have a degree they may never use because they may have a criminal record from 15 years ago that keeps them in labor jobs and away from there dreams.
Pot is a whole other issue because in the U.S. it is legal to grow in some states and if you can who cares. Also pot does not make you lazy, you make you lazy. Certain kinds will actually motivate you, and for anyone with ADHD it can actually make them more productive because they are less impulsive and finish more things before they start something else and focus better.

I haven't seen any posts saying they hate seeing someone welfare at the movie theater-$20-25 two people, eating out-$20-30 two people minimum, shopping for designer clothes when they aren't on sale $? (I know its not cheap), plus many other outrageous spending habits people have.

Stifler's - posted on 10/05/2010

We have free health care in Australia for everyone who is a citizen that qualifies AKA they aren't a millionaire. Most people get Family Tax Benefit payments if they have children. We don't get food stamps or anything. We also have award wages, and none of this $5 an hour and living off tips.

Sherri - posted on 10/05/2010

We actually are on healthcare for the kids and food stamps. My husband works 40+ hrs a week and it still isn't enough we are still under the poverty level. We pay our own health ins., rent, car payment, car ins. We get barely enough to cover 2 wks worth of groceries and then struggle to come up with money to feed us for the other 2wks. We don't abuse the system and actually I don't know many that do.
Sadly the few people who do ruin it for the people that truly need it because of those few people everybody thinks that everyone is abusing it and you are a low life scum bag if you are on assistance.

Chatty - posted on 10/05/2010

YAY! That's all I was trying to point out Kati. Doesn't mean I'm not angry that our systems support drug addicts. It's frustrating for sure.

Rosie - posted on 10/05/2010

you guys are definitley making me think a little bit!! :)
i just can't stand the thought of the government paying for peoples crack habit, while their kids suffer-which most likely will make them turn to that life and the cycle will continue. it breaks my heart how much drugs are associated with poverty in my country, and i'd like to see the government use it's money on a war on poverty, instead of a war on drugs. but that doesn't mean i think people shouldn't be punished for drug use.
you bring up and interesting point with the pot. and i don't feel pot should be illegal, so it clouds my vision on that one a little bit. i feel it's more like alcohol-even better than alcohol actually. but you are right, people can abuse alcohol, spend all of their money on it, and it would be essentially the same thing as someone spending all their money on crack. the money's gone either way.
looking back on my sisters life, and how she got many of her jobs, doesn't make me doubt that SOOOOOOO many other people would just do the same damn thing. she had her daughter who was maybe 3 at the time, pee in a cup, then she put it in a baggy and taped it to her leg for her drug test. she also lied about where her oldest daughter was living, claiming her when she wasn't with her. also, living with a man who was contributing income, and she failed to mention that to the DHS people as well.

there is no easy answer to this! sigh. could maybe the govrnment set it up so that it just pays peoples bills, and not give them money directly, except for a set limit of spending money? still wouldn't deter the people from spending that money on drugs, but at least their bills would be paid.

Isobel - posted on 10/05/2010

hospital stays, therapy, respite,etc. are free in Ontario...I'm talking about strictly eyes, teeth, and prescriptions...If you were on welfare and you had a child who was sick often, would you go get a job that paid $10 bucks an hour and had no benefits? why bother? you'll be facing eviction in a couple of months anyway.

and the system is structured to reward people for having more kids (or it looks like it to them anyways) so yeah...that's definitely something that needs to change, except...how do you do that without starving children?

Ashley=) - posted on 10/05/2010

The give to the dishonest and the non-nationals( take care of your own people first) then give to the people&familys coming in to the country. The honest people who find themselves in hard times are the ones who are pushed to the side.Its very unfair.

When it comes to welfare honesty isn't the best policy and now i dont wonder why many lie to the welfare officers but i would rather go without for being honest then lie to them or beg.I still have my pride there.



Its disgraceful to walk into the office and see the amount of drug addicts and alcoholics..you can smell the alcohol on them..sad.Waste of a life..the have no desire to ever work and get off welfare.You then have scammers who work and claim oh i dont know whats worse anymore..its a disgrace the welfare system.If you dont want to admit it many see all on welfare in the same boat..low life's because of the drug addicts there money is going to buy them there drugs etc and even if people are nice to your face there talking behind your back, the see it like i have a job why dont they..its a wake up call when those have found themselves on it in the recession.I say that was a big slap in the face.

Becky - posted on 10/04/2010

In Alberta, low income families can apply for free Blue Cross coverage for their children. Also, if you have a chronically ill or disabled child, you can get Family Support for Children with Disabilities, which helps with expenses for hospital stays, therapy, respite, etc. Those programs help people with sick kids avoid having to go on welfare.
I should be more familiar with our welfare system than I am, being a social worker! But I believe that unless you are on welfare due to a disability - which is a different program anyway - you have to demonstrate that you are actively seeking a job or taking job training.

Sharon - posted on 10/04/2010

No. There are so many problems with the american welfare programs, i don't know where to start.

1. to many assholes cranking out to many kids, they can't afford to feed & clothe.

2. To many non citizens getting aid.

3. There is no tapering off or weaning from welfare once you are on the road to getting back on your feet. Its an all or nothing thing - virtually anyway.

4. there are no checks & balances for drug addicts using the program. its not meant to replace your income that you blow on crack.

well, those were a start... lol

Stifler's - posted on 10/04/2010

My boyfriend has to get drug tested randomly and breath tested every week at work.

Kimberly - posted on 10/04/2010

Okay, chicks, I'm clocking out! Let's regroup tomorrow for some gentle mud slingin. Night night.

Kimberly - posted on 10/04/2010

Dana, I was just getting fired up over, "Kati and others, do you think if the worst thing a person does is smoke pot, that they should be denied welfare?"

Pot makes people lazy.

I'm not really sure what will solve the welfare problem besides education.

?? - posted on 10/04/2010

I honestly don't think weed is the drug that [most] people are worried about.



Drug testing wouldn't work in many ways regardless - addicts pass pee tests all the time, they're very trixie. And what about all of the prescription drugs that people are addicted too. How are they gonna distinguish between an oxy addict and someone who really needs the pill for pain, both will have a valid prescription.



Welfare helped me too, I moved out when I was 15 and my brother became my temporary gaurdian. We got $402 a month and it went straight to rent. If we didn't have that, we wouldn't have had anyway to afford a place to live.

Jenny - posted on 10/04/2010

What if they have a couple of plants in their garden and are not spending a dime on it (weed)?

I know our welfare system worked for me. It allowed to leave a toxic situtation living with my mother. I left home at 16, was on the system for 1 year and have been self sufficient ever since. I do wish they did have mandatory courses though as previously mentioned, for learning how to live in society and stay on track when they do get off the system.

Chatty - posted on 10/04/2010

Kimberly, I think you were missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm sorry I'm having such a hard time explaining it.

"Why should they get fired for their harmless little habits?"

They shouldn't....I'm not the one FOR mandatory drug testing. I was just trying to point out that technically POT is a drug. So what if someone cleans up and stops using pot long enough to pass a drug test and be approved to collect welfare. The minute they can they're back at it and in a sense ABUSING the system. ACk! Sorry, maybe I'm not making any sense...

I'm on your side....I'm pissed about drug addicts and just people in general abusing the system but mandatory drug testing is NOT going to solve the welfare problem.

Isobel - posted on 10/04/2010

like I said earlier, if you had ever actually lived in extreme poverty, you'd be looking for an escape too. Obviously I don't think it's right...I just understand WHY it happens.

and yeah...I guess I forget how big Canada is...Toronto is mostly a service based economy, so no, there are not many drug tests done for employment reasons here.

Kimberly - posted on 10/04/2010

"So, the only restriction I would set, would be an education system of classes to teach people basic skills on money and household management. They have to take these classes and show up in order to qualify for the welfare system."

Works for me!

Cassie - posted on 10/04/2010

I think no matter what, in these situations, it is the children involved (if there are any) that really suffer. They are the students that show up to school hungry, often dirty, and are often doomed to turn into their parents.

I agree that I hate allowing welfare money to be spent on drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, etc but the money that would be saved by stopping welfare to those on drugs would be spent and gone funding the drug testing needed to weed out the druggies. It's a lose-lose situation no matter what.

I do think there needs to be a time limit on welfare as well as mandatory job building workshops and job fairs to assist people in building their resumes and careers. Welfare is designed to be a helping hand during a tough situation, not a life-long funding of bad choices.

Jodi - posted on 10/04/2010

I really don't think mandatory drug testing is the answer, I know loads of people on food stamps, government health, and/or WIC, heating assistance, electric assistance etc etc etc, and none of them do drugs. To boot, what if a mother of 4 does test positive for crack or weed or whatever? You boot her off the system...but who really suffers? Her kids go hungry, don't see a doctor when they're sick and live in a house with no heat during winter.
I was on Welfare for about 6 months after my husband's company burned down and had to rebuild and our savings was depleted etc etc etc. It was mortifying. But what I've seen is that a vast majority of the people that I know on welfare (which is about half of my town!!! lol) really don't know how to manage money, how to interview properly, don't have a highschool diploma, don't know how to cook a meal that doesn't simply come from a can or pay bills on time, balance a checking book. These are basic skills one needs to successfully run a budget and a household, without these skills, yes, it's going to be very hard to ever have enough money to feed your children or heat your house, which is why I know so many mothers who don't WANT to get a job, because they'll technically over-qualify, but not know how to make their money stretch. I think, at least for my area, that an education system that would hook people up with a GED program to get a highschool diploma, leading to a higher paying job and a program to teach people basic money management and household management skills would REALLY improve the welfare crisis I see in my area.
Thankfully, I am off of welfare now and we learned our lesson and have an awesome savings nest acquired for any other emergencies. But, I'm not sure the mothers that I know, know how to pay necessary bills first, set some aside for savings and hopefully have some fun money left over in order to build a savings or pay their rent.
So, the only restriction I would set, would be an education system of classes to teach people basic skills on money and household management. They have to take these classes and show up in order to qualify for the welfare system.

Kimberly - posted on 10/04/2010

"If you're smoking weed every once and awhile - stop smoking weed and get your shit together so that you're not sitting on the system any longer than you have to be."

No shit Jo! Right on!

?? - posted on 10/04/2010

I think that Welfare is meant to be a temporary thing - if you need welfare, you should put your priorities in order. I think smoking weed every once n awhile is one thing - smoking weed constantly is another thing.



If you're smoking weed every once and awhile - stop smoking weed and get your shit together so that you're not sitting on the system any longer than you have to be.



If you can't stop smoking weed temporarily in order to get the help you need, then you have underlying issues that you should deal with anyways.



Addicts are a completely different story for me - addicts need their own 'welfare,' their own system that gives them the opportunity to address their problems and deal with their shit. They get the help they need emotionally, financially, physically, medically, etc etc etc.

Kimberly - posted on 10/04/2010

You shouldn't be buying pot or cigarettes with my money- period. It's just scummy and disrespectful when asking for a hand out. Why should I give a shit about some slacker that doesn't give a damn that they are taking money from hard working people so they can lay around stoned and smoke cigarettes all day? Should I tuck them in too? I have a heart but that was a BAD example. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would love to drink on the job or burn a fatty at their desk but do they get that luxury? Why should they get fired for their harmless little habits? Dude, seriously. No way no how will I ever find that acceptable.

Kimberly - posted on 10/04/2010

Education is key to EVERYTHING. Unfortunately funding is in the crapper.

Chatty - posted on 10/04/2010

How many of you smoke pot once in a while or spend endless amounts of money on cigarettes every month. Believe it or not, POT is a drug and cigarettes kill. We should test for cigarettes too? The reason I bring up pot is because I've heard SO many people say how they use on occasion....it's still a drug people. Kati and others, do you think if the worst thing a person does is smoke pot, that they should be denied welfare?

Chatty - posted on 10/04/2010

Ok, I understand everyone is upset having to pay for drug addicts to continually get high and abuse the system BUT can you honestly say that imposing mandatory drug testing and denying anyone who tests positive, is going to accomplish anything productive? While drug testing might be a deterrent for some it's expensive and not always effective.....just like anything else there are ways to fuck they system. I agree with Laura, AGAIN. The answer is not to make it more difficult to get.

Rosie - posted on 10/04/2010

i like that too.:)

Chatty - posted on 10/04/2010

"i say use the money that the government would save to have more programs to avoid going into drugs in the first place, or more money spent on education. that one is a big one for me."

OR, they'd have to use that money to build homeless shelters ;)

Kimberly - posted on 10/04/2010

But it is the A numero uno reason.

Rosie - posted on 10/04/2010

it is hard to answer dana. i like the idea of rehab. and i do think that alot of people would try harder to get off of drugs if they knew they wouldn't be getting any help from the government. i just can't see using the governments money to further someone ruining their life. it doesn't make sense to me. i say use the money that the government would save to have more programs to avoid going into drugs in the first place, or more money spent on education. that one is a big one for me. education does so many things to combat poverty, and drugs at the same time, it would help so much.
i don't have all the answers, all i know is that it takes everything out of me to even think about my money paying for peoples drug habits. i'd rather my money go to prevent them from doing drugs in the first place.

?? - posted on 10/04/2010

At the local factories, Tech Cominco and Celgar - drug testing is mandatory for job qualification. Most oil rig and associated trucking companies, in BC & Alberta, also require a clean drug test prior to being qualified for an interview.

My dad is nearly 60 and he recently got a job with a company that his brother has managed and ran for nearly 30 years - he had to do a drug test before they would hire him just for legal purposes. Even though it was his brother hiring him, and he's never touched drugs in his life - he still had to pee in a cup for them in order to qualify for the job (he drives loader and dump truck for an oil company).

Isobel - posted on 10/04/2010

yup, VERY few jobs in Canada require job testing (including McDonalds) interesting that they have that need in America...It's really quite difficult to sue up here, I'm sure that's the difference.

I've been on welfare, and even the people I knew who were "scamming" the system were still living in absolute squalor. None of them were ever anything to be jealous of.

I still think that the way to fix the problem is to make it better, more pro-active, not to make it harder to get. That just punishes those who REALLY need it...the scammers will always find a way to get it, it's the honest ones who suffer.

Chatty - posted on 10/04/2010

That's not the only reason it won't be imposed.

Kimberly - posted on 10/04/2010

It sounds good on a post and as a possible deterrent against using drugs if you want your check but the reality is that it will never ever be imposed because it is too expensive i.e., fiscally irresponsible.

Chatty - posted on 10/04/2010

Ok, things are definitely different in Canada because I've heard of very few jobs where you're actually required to pass a drug test and most of those it's only a one time initial drug test with the threat of more. My boyfriend is a heavy equipment operator and he was tested before he began work with his previous company but in the 2 years after that they never tested him again.

Joy, in your example of your neighbor who was cheating the system....how would a drug test have prevented that? Are you suggesting that the majority of people that abuse the system are drug addicts? And, if you're actually suggesting to deny addicts welfare then how exactly do you think they SHOULD be helped?

Kimberly, you said, " We should not enable drug addicts."

What should we do with them then? Kick them out on the street? What? I'm curious as to what those of you who agree with drug testing suggest we do with drug addicts?

Sorry if I seem hostile; it's not my intention.

Joy - posted on 10/04/2010

The reason for the drug testing to get jobs is because it eliminates liability issues for companies. If they know you have any illegal substances in your system, they won't hire you, and then you can't cause an accident, trip or fall, claim work comp or seriously hurt someone else while working there. And not just that, if you pass a drug test, get the job and then hurt yourself on the job? Before work comp will pay one dime of your medical, you have to take a drug test. Any illegal substances in your system at the time of your accident and you're SOL. Steve's last job, he had to get stitches and before they sewed him up they drew blood to test him. Then, before we left the ER that night they "informed" us that he was clean and we were both like "duhhh" LOL Hardest thing he takes drug wise is Tylenol lol A few beers on the weekends and that's it.