MOST HELPFUL POSTS
Krista - posted on 01/20/2011
I have absolutely no issue with someone using our social safety net when it's needed. Bad luck could happen to ANY of us at any time, so to judge someone on social assistance is the ultimate form of hubris, in my opinion.
That being said, I would hope that people who ARE on social assistance are making efforts to improve their situation, and are looking at the social assistance the way it's meant to be treated: as a temporary aid until you get back on your feet.
Obviously there are some who abuse the system. But there are people who abuse EVERY societal system, from our health care, to social services, to our tax laws. Rich people, poor people, middle class -- every segment has SOME people who abuse their respective systems. We only hear about the poor folk, though, because in 21st century North America, being poor has become a moral failing, evidently.
Unfortunately, right now the system does sometimes make it so that it is more beneficial to be on welfare than to work. If you get a minimum wage job, and it's all being eaten up by childcare, to the point where you can't afford groceries, then can you really be blamed for thinking that it's not worth it? (And if I'm not mistaken, this is sort of the situation you're in, Teresa?). A friend of mine was in that situation for awhile: childcare for her two boys was costing her $1200 a month. She was only making $1500 a month. The rest had to go towards rent, car, utilities and groceries. Do the math.
That is why I think it's great that our government gives families a childcare tax credit. Our tax dollars go towards a lot of crap, so it's nice to see it being put towards something that will make it easier for people to afford childcare -- reducing that catch-22 situation that I mentioned above. Personally, I think they should increase the amount, and increase it by a LOT.
Now, as I mentioned on the other thread, there are some mothers who go on welfare just because they want to be SAHMs and don't want to work. And that is where my patience ends. Welfare is for when you CANNOT support your family, not for when you don't FEEL like supporting your family.
Barb - posted on 01/20/2011
In Indiana if you want to work the county Area 5 agency has a program that will suppliment child care costs depending on your gross adjusted income. A person could end up just paying 5.00 a week for a licensed daycare for each child.
Of course people who are on welfare are ashamed. Just look at this thread. As soon as a person says the word "welfare" another hears the word "criminal scamming the system" everyone has a 'scamming the system' story and that is all that is talked about.
Ohh i'll fix it! i'll get everyone a job!! Everyone is NOT employable and it takes on average 2.5 years from the time a person is disabled to start receiving disability benefits. how does a person eat and provide a roof over their head in that time?
We want to bitch about what they have and what they should be 'allowed' to have. It isn't some autonomous group deciding if they should or shouldn't have it. It's people, mom's like us, that go into a job every day and help people out that need it.
Jenny - posted on 01/19/2011
It's the BARE minimum we can do for the down and out. With 2% holding 98% of the wealth the least we can do is give them a few meals and a freakin roof over thier head. I don't give a shit if someone is abusing the system. $500 a month to keep your body out of the gutter is money well spent to me. That's the alternative, house the people or get ready to see massive(r) amounts of street people. Suck it up wealthy countries.
Tara - posted on 01/23/2011
$26,510 would be a total for 2 parents 2 kids, with all the extra benefits (that are available to ALL Canadians not just low income)
unless they can find low income housing where they live they will pay out about
$12000 in rent
$1440 in hydro
$720 in heat
If you take all of the above off of the $26,510 and divide what is left by 12 months of the year. You are left with $1029.16 dollars a month to cover everything but rent, heat and hydro.
That means all food, all toiletries, all gas, all clothing, all things for your children, transportation, telephone, etc. must be done on that amount of money. As well when you throw things like HST and other quarterly payments into the mix, you don't really take into account the day to day struggle all the other months when you are living on less than about $570 after heat hydro and rent without the additional tax rebates.
That's pretty slim to feed a bunch of kids on, this is why we have seen an over 200% increase in the use of foodbanks in Ontario in recent years. The cost of living is the real problem.
Not enough social housing, wait lists that extend up to 5 years etc. etc.
While I do believe there are many many who abuse the system, I also believe the system is flawed. It does not reflect the current cost of living and it does not do enough to promote furthering ones education to acquire more skills that would make people not only employable but offer them more potential to be more gainfully employed.
This conversation has been closed to further comments
Phyllis - posted on 05/17/2013
first i would like to say i am not on welfare but i do struggle as a single parent. I have heard of people taking advantage of the system, i also heard of people stereotypes of people on welfare being lazy and not wanting to work. I feel the problem runs down. We have to look at education and opportunity when we are trying to solve this situation. Some are so quick to say getting a job would be the answer but what type of job would a uneducated person get? would it be enough to take care of themselves and their family? At the end of the day that uneducated man or woman would still need help from the system even with a job. Again the opportunity for a good education, tutoring, job training programs could be the beginning steps of solving this welfare problem.
Isobel - posted on 01/23/2011
The difference is...when you swim against the tide for years, eventually you're gonna figure out that you're not getting anywhere anyway, and what's the stinking point of trying and trying and trying when the deck is stacked against you and nothing's ever going to change. I assume you would eventually re-channel your energy towards figuring out the way you can live the best on what you've got instead of trying to escape the hole that you are in.
Candi - posted on 01/23/2011
I live in Massachusetts and I think there are a lot of people that abuse welfare and take it from other who really need it. I think that there are alot of drug addicts and alcoholics on welfare here in Ma and I disagreee with that. I think that you should have to have a drug and alcohol test when you apply for welfare and periodically because i find it disgusting that people go on welfare to support their drug and alcohol problems and there are millions of other people out there that could really use it. I find nothing wrong with going on welfare if you absolutely need it.
About the Teenage mothers unfortunately its never going to end. Im not a teen mother but I give them alot of credit because Im 24 and could not imagine being a teenage mother. I know its gotta be hard for them but I strongly agree that they did it to them selves unless they were raped. I dont think they are horrible people for getting pregnant at such a young age but would tell them they should have waited and protected them selves better. I think people judge teenage mothers because they have nothing better to do than judge someone and judging a teen mom is easy for them, I guess.
Emma there is a cycle of poverty in australia before my son was born i was on welfare for nearly 2 years nobody wanted to hire me even though i really wanted a job and was keen on doing anything. I'm still on welfare because no one will hire a single mum so im waiting out til i can get enough money or be able to get a loan so i can study beauty therapy i just hope centrelink is going to help me a little with my studying otherwise i might have to further reduce how much food i can eat so my son can have everything he needs. I estimate to be out of poverty by the time my son is 10
Stifler's - posted on 01/22/2011
I live in a town where you pretty much have to earn high income to afford to live here. There are people who make $150 000 a year claiming they are not together and one of their addresses is at another place so they can claim single parent benefits. I know them, they think it's hilarious because the general attitude here is that "every other cunt can claim something, we pay all the tax so why shouldn't we?". I don't begrudge people who genuinely need welfare like people with disabilities, students, single mothers money but not people who lie to get money or people who are capable of working but would rather watch tv all day because they don't want to do a job they don't like/doesn't make $50 000 a year. They can get by on the $20 000 a year from Centrelink, including low income health care card and free dental at the hospital lying about applying for jobs so why work?
Jenn - posted on 01/22/2011
But, if you are a single Mom making a low income (where your income is being "eaten up" by daycare fees), then you would qualify for a subsidy - so it wouldn't "eat up" your pay cheque. So again I ask, what's the difference?
Krista - posted on 01/22/2011
There's a big difference. Some people give up because they've tried and they've tried and they've tried, but they just can't get ahead. It's the single mom who takes a correspondence course for a year to try to improve her situation, gets a job and then finds out that daycare will eat up all of her earnings.
And then some people never try in the first place because they just can't be bothered. THAT's lazy.
Cyndel - posted on 01/22/2011
I'm greatful for welfare, I don't know what we would do without it. But they do make it difficult to get off, the moment you get a job or start making enough money to begin supporting yourself with no help they drop you. They give you no leeway to get a little ahead. Which is why 40% of those who get off welfare are back on within 3 months.
But for my husband and I it is frustrating. My husband was laid off and is in school, he could probably get a job, but he would be cut off from all benifits and would have to quit school. So we will stay on welfare until he graduates in 1 1/2 years. I can't get a job because we have kids and I would have to get a full time and a part time job to pay for day care around here and make enough to make it worth it. In the end it wouldn't be worth it, esp since I'm 6 months pregnant. Anyway when my husband graduates and gets a job, which won't be hard as he is training in a fast growing field, we will be off as fast as we can afford. We neither one like being on welfare. it isn't embaressment it is an annoyance. We never used any kind of welfare before his layoff and we had been so frugal before the lay off that we didn't need welfare for over 6 months after his lay off. We are living in our means, we are definately taking full advantage of the system, however we will be off within 2 years and spend the rest of our lives paying back and then supporting others on the system.
As for people who abuse the system. I know many personally. Lazy, refusing to work, taking full advantage of a system meant for people who are struggling, not lazy. Where I am from about a 3rd of the people on the system are abusing it and aren't really trying to get off, even if they could.
Welfare abuse is rampant where I am.
I believe the vast majority of people on welfare need to be kicked off. We can make it just fine. Couples can work opposite shifts to make up the $$ difference and avoid childcare. It doesn't have to be something you like doing or even make that much $$. It just has to pay something. If you are a single parent then share a room with your child/children and rent out the other room to another single parent. If you both work together you can lighten the load for each other childcare wise as well as financially. (yes have done and are doing.) Cut unemployment to 3 months and I promise more people will be out looking for work instead of just claiming they are and collecting free welfare money. Sorry DH did it for 2 years. almost $2000 a month in free money. Why bother getting another job when the government is willing to just give him money for free. He helped run the house and I got to sleep more for my night shifts. When his free money ran out he went out and got another job. Not a big deal to us. He got 3 job offers within a week and got to decide which one he liked best. It isn't even a high paying job but it is a job and one he likes.
Jenn - posted on 01/21/2011
@Amanda - keep in mind that if a family with 2 kids is on welfare and getting about $13,488 per year, they will also be receiving $935 a month in child benefits, plus $190.50 quarterly in HST cheques and $260 quarterly in Ontario Sales Tax Credit - so that income now becomes at LEAST $26,510 - all from the government. Throw a few more kids into the mix and you're talkin' even more money. It makes sense why I see so many welfare families poppin' babies out left, right, and centre.
Tara - posted on 01/21/2011
@Juliane, that's why I said mom could take a year or mom can take roughly six months and dad can take roughly six months.
I took the full year with one child and split a year with one child. This last baby I get no EI, but I am self-employed and don't work during the winter (although steve still does, but I do gardening and landscaping so no winter work for me.)
But I don't mind, I love the freedom we have.
Carolyn - posted on 01/21/2011
in canada its 17 weeks maternity ;) then 35 parental which either parent can take or share. there is a 2 week waiting period during which you do not get paid.
But yeah , like Krista said, we pay into our employment insurance off every dollar we make. So that if we need extended sick leave outside of what our work provides you can get EI benefits, You can also get your wages supplimented if there is a sudden shortage of hours or work in your job, so if you go 7 days without work you can apply, and get topped up so to speak for what ever the length your claim has been approved for. Aswell as our maternity benefit.
EI is also there so that you do not use welfare while between work for up to a year.
i think the addition of the parental benefit was a little longer than 5 years ago.
Rosie - posted on 01/21/2011
in the US, husbands CAN take off 12 weeks for the birth of a child. they just don't have to be paid for it. i worked with a man whose wife took off 12 weeks at her job and after she was done, he took 12 weeks to be with his kid. thought that was pretty cool. would've been better if they both got paid, cause neither one did, but still pretty neat to see a man take maternity leave.:)
Krista - posted on 01/21/2011
Oh, and one thing I just want to add, for those of you who didn't know. Our parental leaves are basically paid for ourselves. It comes out of our Employment Insurance, which we all pay into when we work. So it's not a big leech on other taxpayers, like some might think. And you have to have worked for 52 weeks prior to the start of your claim. So you can't get it if you don't work. And if you don't work and you get pregnant, you can't just get a job for a month, quit your job, and collect parental leave benefits.
Krista - posted on 01/21/2011
Yeah, it's 27 weeks for maternity leave, which is for the mother. And then you get an additional 35 weeks of parental leave, which can be used by either parent or by both parents (but not concurrently). So for example, I could take my 27 weeks mat leave, and then an additional 15 weeks of parental, and then my husband could use the remaining 20 weeks of parental when I go back to work.
It being a year is a fairly recent advent. I think it just changed in the last 5 years, if I recall correctly. It used to be 6 months. When my mom had me, it was just 6 weeks. Personally, the idea of having to go back to work after 6 weeks just makes me so sad -- they're so tiny and helpless and fragile at that age, and to leave them? What a terrible choice to have to make. I went back to work when Sam was 8 months, and that was plenty early enough.
Jenny - posted on 01/21/2011
@Julianne The year is broken up into maternity and parental leave. I believe the parental part is 35 weeks and may be used by one or both parents. Both parents do not get the 35 weeks each though, it would be 12/13 weeks each or however you choose to divy it out. Only the birth parent may use materal leave. It covers adoption too but not sure how the maternity part would be counted in that situation. If there are complications you can also add sick leave to the term such as if the mother is bedridden before giving birth or the baby is hospitalised.
Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011
Yea my husband is a heavy equipment mechanic and he has already hurt himself soo many times (not to mention he has little/to no cartilage behind both knee caps and arthritis behind both to and hes only 25) but they treat there employees like crap. Hes been there for 2yrs now (currently going back to school) but yea i think the seystem needs some work and they need to keep track of the people on welfare and make sure they are using it correctly! Right now is just a bad time for everyone unless you extremely rich.
Shauna - posted on 01/21/2011
i agree Nikkole- it is sad and thats how i see it too. My husband makes "OK" money for a very dangerous and hard labor job. But hes been there for awhile---he started out making CRAP. we were struggling bad, and it does seem they promote sitting on your ass!!! b/c you would be better off!
Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011
@Amanda We may split rent and utilities but we still have our own bills like cell phone,car,insurance,healthcare,and student loan plus things that my kids need so $28k is not a lot i pay almost as much if we had our own place but our credit is horrible so we can't get our own place right now and im also helping my mom out by living with her and helping her pay! I know one girl who has a kid shes 3 there both on welfare she gets her housing for $50 a month and she works and her baby's daddy lives with her (even tho hes not supposed to) and they buy Xbox's, TV's,clothes, and whatever else they want or need! I understand some people have it worse off than me im not saying i have it horrible but for how HARD my husband works he gets paid a shitty amount and i don't think its fair for hard working people to make crap wages and then if you work hard and still have trouble making it assistance will tell you oh you make to much thats pretty much saying oh well if you were single or your husband worked less then you would get help, i dont understand its kinda like they are encouraging working less or being single and thats what people are starting to do to get help and i think its sad!
Lacye - posted on 01/21/2011
"So what you are saying is that her dad's disabled, her husband is disabled...they are all poor and live together to pool their resources so that they can almost live like human beings off of their meager checks? Fair enough"
No. That is not what I said. You might need to reread what was actually written. I said, there is nothing wrong with her, her mother, or her sister. They need to get off their ass and work.
Tara - posted on 01/20/2011
Will you lose health care for your new baby when you go back to work in February?
Do you not get any kind of maternity leave at all where you live?
In Canada we have employment insurance, we still receive 55% of our previous gross earnings up to $450/week, depending on where you live.
This is for people who have worked for a certain number of hours leading up to (accumulated not consecutive) and is available for up to a year, or mom can take roughly 6 months and dad takes roughly six months.
It's sad to hear that you won't be staying home with your LO like you had planned. :(
Shauna - posted on 01/20/2011
HAHA omaha does have an awesome zoo. I lived in IOWA CITY ... LOVED IT. ok i lied ... WIC in nebraska changed last year you can make up to 40,793 for a fam of four and still qualify. But you dont get much on wic :/ ... but i guess at least the raised the income!
Amanda - posted on 01/20/2011
Ok its clear many people have no clue the truth about what living on welfare is really like (when not being abused). Mothers with 1-3 kids on welfare have to make choices daily like do they buy their kids new socks (because the old ones all have holes in them), or buy food to feed their children’s tummys. When faced with these choices daily it causes depression, which in turn breaks a mother. Have you ever gone to a food bank and beg for can food just so you can buy fresh fruits and veggies for your children (some people aren’t in usa where they can use food stamps to buy whatever food they would like). When a mother has to decide to pay the rent or pay the hydro there is something wrong in this world. Most woman would not choose to be on welfare, its insane that any mother would want to live like this, of course some do there’s always strange lazy ppl out there, but not everyone on welfare are that!
I know 28K doesn’t seem like much money to you Nikkole, but the avg couple of 2 children in Canada on welfare, gets around 13488K a year, and they don’t have the pleasure of splitting rent (if they do find a roommate, they lose money off their cheques for rent, but worth it if you are also splitting bills). 28K isn’t sounding so bad now is it?? Btw my family of four owned a home on 32K gross a year in Canada do it can be done, it just means spending wise.
where i live, if you have a kid you qualify for WIC. but the program doesn't provide very much, so it's not a family of three (my family) could live off it. hubby and i qualify for food stamps and we are very happy for that because we can't afford food for the two of us AND what WIC won't provide for the baby, like diapers and such, even on hubby's new salary.
i had wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, but i've decided to go back to work as soon as the doctor gives me the okay in February. we'll get kicked off our food stamps and possibly Medicaid, but oh well.
Rosie - posted on 01/20/2011
in iowa we have a program for those who make to much money for title 19 called hawki. it is almost the same as title 19 just the income requirements are a bit higher. i checked on that website and in my state which is similar to indiana cost of living wise, you would make to little money for hawki and would qualify for title 19 in iowa.
did i make sense, or did i just confuse you with that clusterfuck?lol!
Shauna - posted on 01/20/2011
We make about the same amount as nikkole, and live on our own, rent is 800 *we live in a 3 bed house* .... we are a fam of four ... husband pays child support so that gross amount we dont even see ... and the healthcare costs that get taken out of checks and NUMEROUS others things... I live in Ne. but i have never spent 800 bucks on groceries. Here to qualify for wic i think its the same you have to make under 22,000 for a fam of 4
Nikkole - posted on 01/20/2011
@Jenny its hard since we are living with my mom we split things like groceries since im the one who stays home and cooks and cleans but all things for my kids or us we buy! My husband does odd jobs sometimes when he doesn't have school but we sacrifice a lot for ourselves like stuff we want and need sometimes, but i dont have any one to babysit my kids so i can work and if i did work it would all go to gas and child care so its just better for me to stay home i hope when he finishes school it will get better and then im going to go to school :)
No Shauna, I don't JUST sit on my butt and no it's not ok. I know you don't know me or my situation much, but I'm afraid anything I will post will be seen as trying to justify myself or my situation which would not be my intention. I just don't have it in me to post about it right now. I'm struggling, I'm trying, and I AM working on getting help. It's a process though.
Sitting on your butt collecting welfare for life doesn't work though when it's a 5 year lifetime limit on cash assistance. Trust me, I know that and I'm terrified. Not because I want to sit on my butt and be lazy for the rest of my life, but because I honestly don't believe I'm capable of doing this on my own.... but I have no choice and am trying to suck it up and do what needs to be done, but when you have serious stomach stress just trying to make a single phone call..... it's not as easy as it looks on the outside.
Rosie - posted on 01/20/2011
groceries and rent are alot cheaper here though too jenny. where i live my family of 5 can get groceries for the month for about $400, and rent for a 3 bedroom place is about $800.
not saying that it's not hard having that little amount of money, but it's more doable here in the us than in canada.
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