welfare

Isobel - posted on 01/19/2011 ( 111 moms have responded )

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There you go...argue about welfare here and leave the teenage mothers alone ;P

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Rosie - posted on 01/20/2011

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groceries and rent are alot cheaper here though too jenny. where i live my family of 5 can get groceries for the month for about $400, and rent for a 3 bedroom place is about $800.
not saying that it's not hard having that little amount of money, but it's more doable here in the us than in canada.

Jenny - posted on 01/20/2011

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Nikkole how on earth do you support a family of four on that amount? I make that working PT and can't imagine surviving on that alone. My groceries alone are like $800 per month.

Shauna - posted on 01/20/2011

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It does, and i agree cost of living is expensive. But i just see too many "single" parents playing pitty cards to use the system. IE: lying about being single when infact you have others supporting you. I dont like that.

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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awwww...Janessa, the world you would create sounds like absolute paradise...the kind of world I definitely want to live in.

why don't you live in Haiti...there's no welfare there right? survival of the fittest and all that?

Nikkole - posted on 01/20/2011

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@Shauna yea i think it's close to that here not totally sure. It makes getting any help hard if we did need it.

Shauna - posted on 01/20/2011

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My husband dont make much either but took up a second job to support our fam. He works 7 days a week... usually both jobs every day. I am a SAHM but only recently. I believe for a fam of four to get assistance here you have to make a total of under 22,000. Dont quote me but if i remember right its close to that. Usually the people that benifit from this is single parents.

Nikkole - posted on 01/20/2011

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I think welfare is a very good program to help those that really need it, i do know a few people that actually love being on it but i also know people that feel ashamed and are embarrassed! I dont think people on welfare are below me at all hell maybe one day i may have to be on it hell who knows! Just because you have a job doesn't mean you can always pay for everything the way our economy is now its horrible for middle and lower paid people! My husband works full time 5 days a week sometimes 6 he makes $28,000 a year for 4 people (im a sahm) and thats not a lot at all and we make too much for any assistance! We currently live with my mom BUT we pay rent and half the utilities,we pay our own bills,everything for our kids, i clean the house,cook for everyone,and my mom hardly ever watches my kids if she does she ask's (we dont have any credit to get a home loan) so we are pretty much stuck till my husband finish's school which is ok but assistance goes by my mom income too i dont understand why tho since we pay a lot to live here!

Rosie - posted on 01/20/2011

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survival of the fittest means dick to me, since the "fittest" are that way because of an unfair advantage. they weren't born into poverty and had to struggle through the socio-economic differences that divide people. they have to overcome burden, after burden, after burden to get what most people are born with.
you should've tried staying in haiti, instead of having some nice rich family in canada adopt you, and see what you'd be doing now. i'd bet you'd change your tune a bit.

Krista - posted on 01/20/2011

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I have absolutely no issue with someone using our social safety net when it's needed. Bad luck could happen to ANY of us at any time, so to judge someone on social assistance is the ultimate form of hubris, in my opinion.



That being said, I would hope that people who ARE on social assistance are making efforts to improve their situation, and are looking at the social assistance the way it's meant to be treated: as a temporary aid until you get back on your feet.



Obviously there are some who abuse the system. But there are people who abuse EVERY societal system, from our health care, to social services, to our tax laws. Rich people, poor people, middle class -- every segment has SOME people who abuse their respective systems. We only hear about the poor folk, though, because in 21st century North America, being poor has become a moral failing, evidently.



Unfortunately, right now the system does sometimes make it so that it is more beneficial to be on welfare than to work. If you get a minimum wage job, and it's all being eaten up by childcare, to the point where you can't afford groceries, then can you really be blamed for thinking that it's not worth it? (And if I'm not mistaken, this is sort of the situation you're in, Teresa?). A friend of mine was in that situation for awhile: childcare for her two boys was costing her $1200 a month. She was only making $1500 a month. The rest had to go towards rent, car, utilities and groceries. Do the math.



That is why I think it's great that our government gives families a childcare tax credit. Our tax dollars go towards a lot of crap, so it's nice to see it being put towards something that will make it easier for people to afford childcare -- reducing that catch-22 situation that I mentioned above. Personally, I think they should increase the amount, and increase it by a LOT.



Now, as I mentioned on the other thread, there are some mothers who go on welfare just because they want to be SAHMs and don't want to work. And that is where my patience ends. Welfare is for when you CANNOT support your family, not for when you don't FEEL like supporting your family.

Shauna - posted on 01/20/2011

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Teresa--- the stuff you are saying really isnt making sense to me. I dont know you, so maybe you can clarify. So you just sit on your butt and collect welfare , and its ok? Is that what your saying ... b/c thats how you make it sound.

Jenny - posted on 01/20/2011

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Janessa, do you not think poor people are equal to you? Do you think they are these bloodsucking, heartless, shells of former people who only exist to suck on the teet of society? Maybe if it was possible for a family to be self sufficient without money they could make some progress. We are forced ot exist in this system and for their to be rich people there MUST be many, many more poor people. I am saddened by your apathy for your fellow man.

Janessa - posted on 01/20/2011

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Well I stand by my point. Laura make fun of my spelling but since english is not my first lanuage anyways I work hard for someone my age. I have been working since I was 12 babysitting and 13 clean hotel rooms in the summer,spring break and cabins in the winter hard works pays off for someone not born in America or Canada. My boyfriend and I own our own house no help saving and working hard he is 26 and I am 22.





I have an idea if welfare stops and they will start robbing, stealing ect put them in the jails or they can live on they own island surival of the fittest.

Rosie - posted on 01/20/2011

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i'm simply astonished by how disgusted people are of welfare recipients. they are all automatically lumped into the "theiving whores" catagory without knowing one little tiny bit of that persons life other than what is shown.

sure, when someone lies about their income to receive welfare, it irirtates me. but what irritates me MORE, is how they got that way in the first place. fix the problems as to why people are on welfare, and (most of) these things would be a thing of the past.

i simply don't understand what people think these welfare recipients are going to do without welfare. i'm sorry but they won't go out and get jobs, they'll start killing, and robbing people to get what they need to survive. you fix the problem and you won't need as much welfare, you take away welfare, and there will be HELL to pay.

[deleted account]

Well, thank you Janessa. I'm extremely grateful that you (in general) have made it so that me and my 3 kids are not out on the street.... since you are looking for gratitude from 'them'.... now you have it.

I most certainly AM broken, but I'm really struggling to become UNbroken. An unbroken person could look at my situation and think I'm being lazy or stupid or whatever, but that's because an unbroken person can't get it.

From someone on the outside looking in.... I probably just look lazy and useless (hey, my ex's wife basically accused me of it, so why not?), but that is so far from the truth that it's not even funny.

Yes, I'm aware that some people abuse the system, but JUST 'sitting on your butt' is not necessarily abusing the system.

Not sure if any of what I've written actually makes any sense. I've got a sick little boy sleeping on my arm at the moment.....

Jenny - posted on 01/20/2011

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Has it crossed your mind that what you consider lazy could be a by product of years of untreated depression?

Not to mention there are simply not enough jobs for all of the able bodied workers in the first place.

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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all welfare recipients are lazy? and yes MOST poor people died on the street when the government did nothing to help them.



and I know how to spell a lot (since you're throwing insults now)

Janessa - posted on 01/20/2011

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Laura you missed my point. If you actually read it you would understand like many have. I meant people in americana and canada in the system are lazy majority of the time do not want to beter they lives. Meant to say they should be thankful people in canada and america are nice enough to let them use the system and they should not abuse it. What if our governments stop helping people on welfare i bet those people would hurry up and get a job so they can survive. By the way my ancestors did no die of starvation darling read history and get back to me ok and you do not seem to know allot. Maybe you can spend all your income helping out lazy people I do not wish to because I work hard for my money and many of those people do not.

Jenny - posted on 01/20/2011

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Is anyone really suprised by this? Do you think these people are thinking they are screwing all the hard workers over? Or are they just trying to get thiers just like every last one of us. We live in a consumer driven society. We are taught from day 1 that NOTHING is more important than money and your life's goal must be the pursuit of it at all costs. While they are making choices just like the rest of us and we don't agree with them don't you think it helps to try to understand their process? These people are broken and doing whatever they can to live "like the rest of us".



Now I can see how it would be frustrating to make a hair over welfare rate on minimum wage. I think the fight should be to raise your wage though, not take away from others.



Here it is just over $500 per month for a single person (I believe). And we have a similar cost of living to Australia. My 920 sq. ft house with 1 bath and 2 bedrooms rented for $1500 per month before we bought it. So if multiple welfare collectors are pooling their resources more power to them, I'd do it too.

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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if that theory were true...we would have a higher teen pregnancy rate than the US, and I'm pretty sure we don't, I should look that up

I must admit though, I think it's funny that I started this thread to break up welfare and teen moms and now you've just dragged teen moms into THIS debate ;)

Amanda - posted on 01/20/2011

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This reminds me of a show tv I saw a few weeks ago, and was disgusted. For the life of me I couldnt remember the name of it. But its a large family whos father cant find work, they live in a HUGE house (1200+ for rent), drive two cars, wear brand name clothing, diamon earrings, and kids have things like ping pong tables, xboxs, computers, while the family collects food stamps. Give me a break, get a smaller home, sell your cars, diamonds, xboxs and everything else before you cry poor.



Edit - The show is called Downsizing.

Amber - posted on 01/20/2011

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yeah i think that the leath care in canada is awesome in the way that it provides free help for those who need it, but then again if you look at it this way, us canada teens who get pregnant don't HAVE to wory about any of that, so it makes the task that much less financially overbearing. maybe subconciously that makes us care less about getting knocked up? free birth woohoo! lol you know what i'm saying? then, apparently, we all end up on welfare :P cycle.

Sarah - posted on 01/20/2011

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Some people use benefits for the right reasons, some people abuse them, it's the same with everything.
Do I get annoyed that some people are seemingly living a life of luxury on benefits while others struggle by with a job etc. Sure I do! But I also realise that a hell of a lot of people do use benefits for the purpose that they're designed for, it's just that the ones abusing the system makes a much more interesting story for the media!!

Shauna - posted on 01/20/2011

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yeah health care does suck, we pay over 400 bucks on insurance a mo. And to have my son it cost us over 10k with insurance... and even the hundreds of dollars in bills we were paying a mo wasnt good enough. the hospital is suing up for the amount of delivery in full. I dont know too many people that has that kind of money laying around. so yes the healthcare DOES SUCK. But before you even get pregnant you know its something you have to provide.

Amber - posted on 01/20/2011

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i like Canada's health care system. screw welfare :P who needs it when all your medical bills are free free free? i pity the poor Americans who have to pay to give birth :( now THEY need 'government assistance'!

Bonnie - posted on 01/20/2011

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People are good at abusing the system where I am. A lot of welfare people here. You wouldn't believe the number of people in this city who use their welfare money to buy alcohol every freakin day.

Shauna - posted on 01/20/2011

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For the most part i cant stand welfare. There may be a few that really need it. But for the most part all i encounter is lazy SOB's. I cant even count the amount of women i know that simply dont work b/c they dont have to b/c goverment assistance is kicking in. They claim to be "single moms" when in fact their boyfriends *father of child* are living under the same roof and paying the bills. They lie to get the benifits. It makes me sick. Girl i work with makes the same amount of money as me, but lies and says her b/f doesnt live with her... she gets free childcare, food stamps, and HUD lower housing. SHES BETTER OFF THAN ME!!!!! i was paying 800 dollars a month in childcare *she got it free* 900 in rent she paid 300. Oh and her b/f claimed he lived alone too so between them they got almost 500 dollars in food stamps a month. and they both work. I cannot CANNOT stand people that use and abuse the system. UUUGHHHHH

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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That's what we have school for though. In grade 10 they make you do fake job interviews and stuff and work on your resume. Even though most people have no work experience at 14. They also have careers day where the local uni comes in to talk about what courses they offer and what subject to do. The government here does plenty to help everyone do their best and people seriously just do not take advantage but they will take advantage of free money. Then people will say the government is shit. I think it's their attitude towards money and work that is shit.

Amanda - posted on 01/20/2011

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Ontario is horrible for welfare scammers, I can count a ton I know. Our system needs an over haul, those who have been on welfare for years, need to be investigated. The amounts they give familys does not need to be raised again (as a mother with one child now gets more then I ever got with two young children). Courses need to be put into place, to help people get educations, or jobs (not these welfare jobs that you get for 3 months then you are fired so they dont have to hire you full time, but real jobs). Reality is in Ontario even on welfare you can not afford a decent home for your family, thanks to the lack of rent control (thanks Mike Harris). It is impossible for a family to get a head the way the system works now.

Examples of welfare scams I have heard.

- Mothers living with men but claiming to be single.
- Some of those same men getting their own welfare cheque at another home
- Family of 4, father works 70+K a year, mother claims hes left her she collects welfare while hes bringing home 2K+ pay cheques every two weeks.
- Faked disiblities
- Collecting welfare cheques while working under the table at a company.

Sal - posted on 01/20/2011

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do you know what i hate about the australian system, unmarried you get 550ish a week (more if you have a few kids) working you get seriously subsised childcare and now paid maternity leave, married and home with the kids bugger all (or i do) , when i took my preschool reciepts (not childcare) to medicare for the pathetic rebate, i was told as i was an at home mum i get none.....thats why people feel like cheating the system...

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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Nah it's 71% of people aged 15-65 (employable age) actually work. That probably equates to 2% of the overall population.

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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Since I'm sure that 2% would have 98% of the money...sounds fair to me.

The fact is that while we all like to think we would prefer to stay at home and never work again, it's a known fact that most people WANT to work...but if you are raised on welfare and you have nobody to teach you HOW to get a job, or how satisfying it is to work, the cycle of poverty continues generation after generation.

Jodi - posted on 01/20/2011

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LOL, once we get experience and age, you DO get a much better wage, but junior wages are pretty ordinary compared to some welfare......



I just don't think they quite have the balance right to discourage it, but at the same time, you can't let a teenage mum and her baby starve. And yet, there ARE girls doing it deliberately. Balance will always be the debate here......

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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I've heard that only 2% of the population actually work here. Don't quote me on that one.

Jodi - posted on 01/20/2011

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Lauar, I'm serious when I say they earn less than they get from the government. In this country, a single mother can get up to approx $550 tax free a WEEK. Our minimum wage for an ADULT is only $570, and you still have to pay tax out of that. For a 15 year old, they'd be lucky to get $350 less tax. Can you see why a 15 year old would choose to have a baby?

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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as for Australia...Sorry but I really just don't know the system, so I'll just have to take everybody's word for it

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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some people are just not hirable...by anybody. If you need proof of that, go take a look at the Welcome Page ;P

Jodi - posted on 01/20/2011

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Oh, and then there are the couples, where one person has a disability and has been put in a home because the partner can't care for them anymore, who are told to get a divorce so they can get more help. Yep, that's what the government tells them. If you were divorced, we could pay you more. But because you are still married, we can't help you.



Priorities......



So we have a welfare system that will pay a teen mother more than she can possible earn out in the real world (obviously just for the incentive), and yet can't afford to help an elderly couple stay married but still care for the one with the disability. Hmmmmm.......

Jodi - posted on 01/20/2011

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Laura, you would be surprised how easy the system is to wrought in Australia.....a LOT of people do it. I have seen it many times, and I think if you ask ANY Australian, they could count off any number of people they know or have known who have totally abused the system.

No, not everyone does, not even most, but the ones who do seem to have found a way to do it in style.

A teenage mother in this country is better off getting knocked up at 15 than if she just got a job if she REALLY wants to leave home or gain independence from her parents. That's right, by having a baby, she has a good reason to move out of home with little or no objection from the government, AND she gets paid to do it more than she could EVER hope for if she just decided to get a job and move out of home. And when I say more, I am talking almost DOUBLE what she could earn as a wage. Anyone see anything wrong with that picture?

Stifler's - posted on 01/20/2011

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I agree with disability pensions. For legit disabilities. I hate work, most people hate work and dealing with people they work with. It's our responsibility to provide for ourselves not just live off everyone else regardless. I get it, some mothers need welfare and people who've lost their jobs. But there's no excuse to sit on the dole for 4 years "looking for a job". After 1 year you'd be out doing a course or something to find work easier. Yes the government pays for that too if you're on the dole. it's not the taxpayers or government's or work shortage's fault that people dropped out of school at age 15, never worked, have no resume or work experience then lose jobs to people who do.

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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and Janessa...I imagine that if the govt did nothing, poor people would go back to just dying on the streets like they did in the days of your ancestors.

and are you really suggesting that America's government needs to be more like Haiti's and stop taking care of the poor?

There will ALWAYS be SOME people who take advantage of the system, but they are BY FAR in the minority of the people who get welfare...paying them is a necessary evil when it comes to feeding the people who really need it.

Isobel - posted on 01/20/2011

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"Quoting Lacye: I have to disagree with you Laura. I know people that are abusing the system. In like a huge way! I know of one person that has a child, lives with her parents, her father draws disability, her sister and the sister's husband lives with them, the husband also draws disability, the parents get food stamps, the sister and her husband gets food stamps, none of them have a job and is not even looking for a job. There are 3 healthy people living in that house and none of them are trying to work. With that said, I know others who are not much better than them.

My bf and I do receive food stamps but he works and I'm a college student. We are trying to do better. To me, a lot of people on welfare don't try. They think why try when they can fall back on the government's help"

..........................................................

So what you are saying is that her dad's disabled, her husband is disabled...they are all poor and live together to pool their resources so that they can almost live like human beings off of their meager checks? Fair enough

Sal - posted on 01/20/2011

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i don't think that just because some people abuse the system that it should be shelled as people who need it should not be left with out support, and i do think that the cycle of poverty does exist and i have seen it at work,(i'm in austraila), but it isn't created by having a welfare system, and stopping welfare isn't really the answer, i know it is very cliched but education is, that is more than schooling but family planning, house keeping, parenting, the works,even without a welfare system in place it would still happen and did, it does take determination, support (family and professional) to get out of, but mostly the desire. I am very 2 sided in this, by having a sector of society living on welfare can create a welfare class (for want of a better description) and there are generation of families who are welfare dependant, so i think that there should be some way to cut the time you can be receiving it, but it is a tool to keep families or indviduals afloat in tough times too, and a community as a whole can benifit from regular income for people. I was a single mum until i married when my son was 10ish and my main source of income was a welfare payment, i did work, i did study but there were times where i did have to do the maths, child care, petrol, drop in payments due to increased income, loss of other benifits (free dr visits and ambo cover, car rego etc)did mean that at times it wasn't eccomincal to take extra hours, and once i had to turn down a full time position as they wouldn't make it perminate, i needed to security that staying on the system gave me (at the time if i lost benifit, then lost my job, i wouldn;t of gone back to the same benifit and would of lost the extra things that make a huge difference when your income is low such as the free car rego)

Jenn - posted on 01/20/2011

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I'm pretty sure my county has one of the highest welfare rates around, and I'm pretty damn sure that they don't all want to better themselves and get off of welfare - that almost makes me laugh - but I guess if you don't see it you wouldn't know. Having said that - I myself had to go on assistance after I left my "husband" temporarily until I got myself situated and back on my feet. I was not abusing the system and it was only for a short period of time. Well guess what happened - my ex (or his Mom) called and said that I was living with my boyfriend (which I wasn't, I was renting the upstairs of the house and the home owner lived downstairs). I was told that I was a liar, and threatened with jail time, so I got very upset and scared and didn't even get a chance to explain the situation - I was treated like a piece of shit by the case worker and now I'm paying back ALL of the money by making monthly payments. Real nice, eh? So a single Mom who was trying to get back on her feet gets the shaft, yet there are so many lifers around here - WTF is that?!?!

Tracey - posted on 01/20/2011

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My friend works 16 hours a week and gets certain benefits due to his low income. He has been offered full time work but turned it down as he would LOSE money for working longer due to our ridiculous benefit system.

Meghan - posted on 01/19/2011

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I know A LOT of people that abuse the system...which SUCKS for those who need it.
I was on income assistance for a year and a bit...I had a job as well. I got kicked out of my house and had to move back in with my mom with an 8 month old...no education.
I don't blame anyone but myself, should have made better choices. BUT, I used that assistance to provide for my son, help my mom out and now I am in school. The worst is going into an office and being surrounded by druggies and lazy ass people (I eavesdrop a lot and I have heard some horrible logic and rational) and having government employee's treat you like a piece of shit too. Some people ruin it for everyone.

Stifler's - posted on 01/19/2011

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I know heaps of people abusing the system. Claiming single parent benefits when their boyfriend or fiance makes $150 000 a year. My MIL, on a "disability" pension because she "can't work" because of "emotional problems". Yet she thinks she should have a car and a computer to "job search" because she is going to get her act together one day, I've been waiting for 4 years to not have to lend her $50 for scratchies and smokes which she claims is for food. Other people "I'm doing work for the dole.. I dropped out of uni.. I don't know what I want to do". DO ANYTHING... JUST STOP WASTING MY HUSBANDS TAX PAYER MONEY ON YOUR FREE FOR ALL LIFESTYLE. Any job pays better money than the dole.

Lacye - posted on 01/19/2011

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I have to disagree with you Laura. I know people that are abusing the system. In like a huge way! I know of one person that has a child, lives with her parents, her father draws disability, her sister and the sister's husband lives with them, the husband also draws disability, the parents get food stamps, the sister and her husband gets food stamps, none of them have a job and is not even looking for a job. There are 3 healthy people living in that house and none of them are trying to work. With that said, I know others who are not much better than them.

My bf and I do receive food stamps but he works and I'm a college student. We are trying to do better. To me, a lot of people on welfare don't try. They think why try when they can fall back on the government's help.

[deleted account]

There is a lifetime limit of 5 years of cash assistance welfare where I live (plus one (or two) 6 month 'grace periods' if you have a newborn (or two) while on it), so there is no 'living off the system' for life.



I am currently on all types of assistance, but if I don't get my butt off of the cash assistance by the time my son is 5.5.... I'm off anyway.



That's all I have to say on the subject at the moment.

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