What are your thoughts on abortion?

Isobel - posted on 10/05/2011

if she gets saved she won't have to see dead babies (not to mention (whether or not she ever had an abortion cause she didn't say)...cause I'm pretty sure (from what I've heard of heaven) there are no dead baby viewings there

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

"Faith in God got my nephew through his chronic pain, kidney failure and cancer! "

As it has done for countless others. Although probably not for this babies with other conditions though:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...

Erin - posted on 10/05/2011

** Mod Notice **

Say bye bye ladies... I'm locking this up.

Erin - DM Mod

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

I have to go tend to my amazing son whom I did not kill. God bless you all and I hope you change your minds on being a murderer.

Jaime - posted on 10/05/2011

Ya, apparently we're being judged by you right now. I hope he saves his fake breath because God doesn't need to be where I'm going when I die :)

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

You will be judged. I hope he saves you. Hope you get to see the babies you killed.

Jen - posted on 10/05/2011

@Cassandra "Thall shall not kill!!! "



Numbers 31:15-17
"15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him."

Jaime - posted on 10/05/2011

Cassandra, did you read that in a book somewhere?

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

Thall shall not kill!!!

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

Faith in God got my nephew through his chronic pain, kidney failure and cancer!

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

Oh, I see. Tay Sachs or Trisomy 18 are the mother's fault now? Not God's will. Nice.

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

If you bring a baby into this world that can not survive for long without medical intervention and spends all it's time in extreme pain, but you don't let its suffering end, you may not be a murderer, but you are a torturer. I'm not sure which God would be angrier at? Are you?

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

Some of the stuff that causes problems on the babies are caused by bad mothers who smoke drink and do drugs while pregnant and shouldnt have the ability to get pregnant. so it can sometimes be avoided.

Jaime - posted on 10/05/2011

Tell that to someone with deformities and chronic pain, Cassandra, and see how willing they are to accept that it's God's plan for them to suffer.

Isobel - posted on 10/05/2011

I personally would spend an eternity in hell (if I believed in that sort of thing) to make sure that I didn't have 3 children living in the hell that was me and my husband for all their lives...cause if another had have arrived after Q...I would have had no choice but to stay...and EVERYBODY would have suffered

Isobel - posted on 10/05/2011

God also gave us the power of choice (if you believe in God)...so I doubt he would punish an unborn child for what somebody else did to them

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

Im not a murderer. Its killing them regardless of how far along you are. If god wants them, he will take them. God gave us strength to get through pain and suffering. If a baby is born with a certain deformity, its for a reason.

Jen - posted on 10/05/2011

"God has a plan for everyone. Those babies are needed with him in heaven. They have to exist to be able to join him! "

So your god can't just create little angels in heaven without inflicting pain and agony on a helpless child?

I'm sure that's not what you meant but it sure if the first thing I thought after reading your post.

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

Well then Cassandra, if they had been conceived then they have existed. They can be with him in heaven regardless of when their life here ended. How can you be so sure that God's plan doesn't involve you sparing the poor little soul of great pain and agony in this life?

Jen - posted on 10/05/2011

Johnny, it's always different when the god does it. He gets a free pass.

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

God has a plan for everyone. Those babies are needed with him in heaven. They have to exist to be able to join him!

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

Cassandra, if god creates a baby that is unable to survive outside the womb without excessive medical intervention and great agony, wouldn't that make god the baby killer, not you?

Stifler's - posted on 10/05/2011

I don't want a third child. If I'd gotten pregnant like 2 months after having an emergency caesar and 2 kids that were 16 months apart I would have considered abortion.

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

Those were my thoughts. Im not and never will be a baby killer. Everyone should get a chance at life. God bleess.

Sapphire - posted on 10/05/2011

"If there's a god...he didn't make me stupid"

Worth repeating.

Sapphire - posted on 10/05/2011

Nope- It is MY decision as to what happens to MY body. Plain and simple.

Isobel - posted on 10/05/2011

I personally wouldn't take the chance of leaving my two children motherless in the care of their idiot loser father for the sake of a potential being that is entirely unaware of their existence.

I don't believe in God, but if I did, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want me to leave my two LIVING SENTIENT children in that kind of situation. If there's a god...he didn't make me stupid

Charlie - posted on 10/05/2011

Making a baby live a life of pain through a fatal diagnosis whether it is only for a few minutes after birth or a few days is inhumane and disgusting.
People who condone the suffering of anyone isnt pro life they are only invested in feeding their ego, it is selfish ......but hey as long as you feel better for not having to put a person out of their misery its all good right ?


At least someone gets the warm and fuzzy's out of it, it certainly isnt the child.

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

"I would give my life for my baby."

Well, than you can't really call your self pro-life then can you. Just anti-abortion. Has it ever occurred to you that God has provided a decision already, giving you the option of abortion?

Krista - posted on 10/05/2011

@Cassandra: So, if your baby had something like Tay-Sachs disease, where after being born, she would live a few years, and most of that time in utter AGONY...you would make your child suffer for years, just to satisfy your own principles? And you would force other mothers in that situation to make THEIR children suffer for years, even if they do not share your principles?

Nice.

Becky - posted on 10/05/2011

Well, that is great if that would be your decision, but others may not feel the same way. What about a mom who already has 4 young children? Should she be forced to leave them motherless for a baby who may not even survive (if she dies before the baby is viable, for instance)? If that is her choice, fine, but how can a person critisize her for wanting to live to mother her other children?

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

I would give my life for my baby. Its gods decision if that baby lives or dies. Not ours, i stand by what i said.

Becky - posted on 10/05/2011

Cassandra, if you'd read the debate, you would that not all abortions are the result of stupidity or rape. Some are the result of serious health issues for the mom. Some are the result of serious, will eventually be fatal, deformities for the baby. Some are the result of failed birth control - yes, even "permanent" birth control like tubals and vasectomies, when a family really cannot handle any more children.
I hate abortion too. But especially after having read this thread, I have to have compassion for women who have had to make that decision. There may be a few out there who take it lightly, but I am sure they are in the minority by far. From the stories that have been shared, it appears that it is a very difficult, heartbreaking decision to make.

I don't really like the language of calling it punishing the baby either. I don't really see death as a punishment. I mean, yes, your life is over, but once you are dead, so is your suffering. A baby who is never born is perhaps spared extreme suffering as the result of being born to a mother who didn't want it, couldn't care for it, and didn't love it enough to consider adoption.

Sapphire - posted on 10/05/2011

Cassandra, have you bothered to even READ the 19 pages of posts before you added your 2 cents in?

Cassandra - posted on 10/05/2011

I think abortion should be illegal. No matter what caused that baby, (being stupid, or getting raped) why should that baby die and be punished? Not fair. It disgusts me.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/05/2011

Thanks Gillian, it's helpful to hear the side of the debate that counts, and that is the moms who have had this decision in front of them.

Lady - posted on 10/05/2011

Yes I do believe it was the right choice for my family and for me too in some ways - I don't regret the choice I made, I regret that I had to make that choice and I do feel like I murdered my own child, but for the children that are living already it was right for them - they would have suffered from having a completely stressed out mum and dad and even less to go round.
And there was no way adoption could have ever been an option for me - the thought of trying to explain to my kids and everyone around me where the child I was carrying had gone would send me over the edge as would the thought of someone else raising my child.
Hope this answers your question Laura - I would just like to say abortion is something I never thought in a million years I would ever consider - it wasn't an option at all with any of my other children even though none of them were planned but I had made the decission that I could not have anymore - as much as my have loved to have kept going cause like I said earlier I love babies - but I knew what was right for my family, which was why I wanted steralised.

Laura Zoey - posted on 10/05/2011

Gillian, my heart aches for you and what you went through. I understand your logic and reasoning and respect your choice for your family!
I can tell it hurts you to think about that baby, idk if this is an inappropriate question so feel free to not answer, but do you still believe it was the best choice? Or do you wish you had carried the baby.
I'm really just a softie at heart and the theoretical thought of abortion makes me so sad it comes out anger. But hearing it from the moms side makes me hurt for her to and sympathize with her reasonings.
I think to fully respect the side of pro choicers you have to have an understanding of why moms would choose abortion.
I still can't quite understand how abortion is easier then adoption. I've heard it over and over but I can't wrap my head around it. To me I'd rather my child be alive and without me then not to be alive at all.
But I know my mind isn't normal in many ways so maybe this is one of them too :)

I guess if I look at abortion from the perspective of the fetus I still see it as murder. Buy looking at it from the perspective of the mother and family I can see how it could be a hard, but right choice for them.

Krista - posted on 10/05/2011

And it pisses me off, because I bet if a man your age, with 4 kids, wanted a vasectomy, he wouldn't have to frigging fight for it.

Rosie - posted on 10/05/2011

♥ gillian.

Lady - posted on 10/05/2011

Yes Donna as Amie said I had fought for my steralisation - I'm in the UK so it's NHS totally free and supposed to be for the people but it took months and months of trying and numerous doctors before they allowed me to have one - then on the day of my operation they told me I couldn't have it as I was already pregnant - I'd been trying almost since my 4th child had been born, he was 18 months by then!! Sometimes life really sucks!!

Sapphire - posted on 10/05/2011

"But I don't want to turn this into a religious debate."

Thank you! I sincerely and genuinely mean that. In just about every abortion debate, there is always a strong religious factor to go along with pro-lifers. That's common knowlege when entering a debate on this type of issue.
Thank you for acknowledging that you can separate abortion from religion, in a roundabout kind of way.

Jaime - posted on 10/05/2011

The doctor that delivered my son is one of the top OB's in Ontario and he has performed many tubal ligations and hysterectomies at the request of women without making them jump through hoops to get it. This is not the norm unfortunately, and there are a lot of women that have to travel a distance to have him do their surgery. My sister wasn't approved for a tubal ligation until she talked to her doctor a few times about it. She has two children and although she was only 22 at the time, she was done. I think that when a woman says she's done, there should be no question about performing a simple tubal ligation. There is always reversal to consider in the future if things change...but I think better access to these procedures is a necessary step in providing proper, preventative health care for women when it comes to pregnancy.

Becky - posted on 10/05/2011

Gillian, I am very sorry you had to make that decision. I can tell how very difficult it was for you. I can understand being in that position too. Like I said, we are done after this one, hubby plans to get a vasectomy pretty quick after he's born. There are a lot of reasons - financially, we're okay, but certainly not wealthy. We're a single-income family, by choice, and I don't want to have to return to work with a very young child just to be able to support them. The more kids we have, the less we can give them, and with 3 boys already, if we were to have a 4th boy, we'd both have to work 2-3 jobs just to feed them when they hit their teens! I'm 35, our 3 will all be within 4 years of each other, which is fun, but exhausting, pregnancy is not at all easy for me - although this one has been much better than my first 2 - and we've had scares with 2 pregnancies in a row now, which I don't think I could handle going through again. So, with all that, it would be very big shock if I were to get pregnant again and it would definitely be tough. So I guess I can understand how someone in the same position would make the decision to end the pregnancy. Just because I couldn't doesn't mean I see someone who would as a bad person. And yes, my religious beliefs come into play as to why I couldn't too. I believe that God would provide, somehow. But I don't want to turn this into a religious debate. :)

Amie - posted on 10/05/2011

Donna, in Gillian's first post she mentions that. Scroll back and you'll see it.

It's not as easy as just wanting it. You still need a doctor's approval. If they won't approve it, you can either shop around to find one who will or fight your own doctor for it.

Donna - posted on 10/05/2011

well in ny i know they r lol. ny is pro birth control all the way

Donna - posted on 10/05/2011

gillian, have u thought about getting yur tubes tied, if u are on state medical, they are more than willing to pay for it. 3 kids are enough for me and im ready to tie my tubes

Jaime - posted on 10/05/2011

Becky, I do see what you're saying about not being able to fully understand the other side of the coin...but I am glad you can at least empathize with a woman that has had to make that choice.

Sal - posted on 10/05/2011

Thankyou for sharing Gillian you show that our responsibility is for the children we already have not just the one we carry inside

Lady - posted on 10/05/2011

The baby I aborted was not unwanted or un loved - I wanted it because it was alive - it was mine and I love babies so so much - I would have a million if I could - I love everything about babies I love giving birth and meeting my child for the first time - it wasn't at all that it "didn't fit in my plans" it would have destroyed my family to have another child - I don't work because there is no way we could afford child care so we already strugle finachally with 4 - my kids have to go without already and I find it difficult sharing my time between them all - my youngest wasn't even 2 at the time and already shares me with three others it would have been so unfair on him to have a new baby as well - logistically would have been imopsable too - school runs - shopping - fitting everyone in the car all these things had to be taken into consideration - plus I have suffered depression for years and just know I could not have coped with another child - in no way was it that "it didn't fit in my plans" it was the hardest thing I have ever done and I looked at the scan, I saw the tiny little 5 week old blob and said goodbye and sorry and when it was due I couldn't even look at any babies because my arms and my heart ached for mine - I'm not so different from you Becky - I just live a different life!