What are your thoughts on abortion?

Brittany - posted on 09/25/2011 ( 432 moms have responded )

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I am Pro-Life, have been and always will be. Do you all think Abortion should be illegal? To what extent should it be illegal? What about rape victims? Should the law force them to have a child that might remind them?

Some say the argument is "Even if rape is the issue, there are plenty of families that are willing to adopt." Aren't there already millions of kids in foster homes awaiting adoption?

What are your thoughts?

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Jaime - posted on 09/27/2011

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You can be pissed off all you want Laura, but the fact is that there are THOUSANDS of children in foster care right now that don't have a good and loving home to go to. People do adopt babies, but that means that those thousands of kids will stand less of a chance of being adopted with each unwanted baby that is born. It's a fail for the economy and it's a HUGE let-down for those children that are patiently waiting....

~♥Little Miss - posted on 09/27/2011

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Laura, tell that to all the children that have been in the system their whole lives, they will feel relieved.

Merry - posted on 09/27/2011

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You know I really get pissed when I hear people say that abortion is the solution for the filled foster care system, or that non aborted babies will just be added to the system etc.
Babies are in high demand!
Healthy babies are even more demanded!
Most any pregnant woman can find a family of her choosing though a private adoption agency and have her baby a family by birth.
Babies VERY RARELY get into long term foster care unless they are seriously disabled. Or in certain cities if they are minority races.
But most every pregnant woman seeking ab adoption will have many many families to choose from to give her baby to.
Babies don't just sit in foster care for years. They are adopted like hot cakes!

Jaime - posted on 09/27/2011

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I am 100% in support of choice. There are no guarantees in life because we cannot dictate or predict what will happen from one moment to the next. For that reason alone, I support a woman's right to choose whether or not she will carry to term or abort a zygote/fetus. Of course, one could argue that because there are no guarantees in life, having an abortion is not the right answer based on the idea that 'maybe' the child will be adopted by a good and loving family. And maybe that young, single mother will be successful in raising herself AND her child to become functioning, contributing-to-society and economy adults. But it's the 'maybe' that secures my vote for choice. Reality doesn't subscribe to or survive on 'maybe'. Reality is the cold truth, regardless of how painful or unfair. Reality dictates that here, right now there are thousands...count them--THOUSANDS of unwanted children waiting for good and loving homes. There are HUNDREDS of underprivileged children that don't receive the love and support they not only need, but absolutely deserve in order to mentally and physically prepare for adulthood. If a woman feels strongly that she cannot support a child after birth, or successfully carry a healthy fetus to term, then abortion seems most definitely the lesser of all evils. If a young girl or woman of any age decides that she does not have the capacity in any form, to consider the health, well-being and ultimate livelihood of a child for whatever reason, then abortion is the smart choice and the right choice for her. The choice isn't made for anyone else but that woman, in that moment for her reasons. These reasons might affect others on an emotional/moral level, but one can't honestly expect that the 'right' reason to have a baby is simply because the alternative inconveniences one's social ideals and moral high ground. Morality and reality are mutually exclusive, whether a person is pro-life or pro-choice.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 09/27/2011

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About the current thought stating that there are extremists on both sides of this, well, I have only ever really seen the damage that pro lifers inflict on others. I have gotten into more heated personal debates with highly devout Christians that are pro life to the extreme. Some even think that monthly birth control is a form of abortion. This hurts my head when I hear it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 09/27/2011

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WOWZA! This thread exploded! I will say, the thing that bothers me the most about extremists, they take it to a whole new level. Bombing abortion clinics, shooting doctors, making women who are already facing a difficult decision guilty....yup...lets kill people to prove a point that abortion is killing. What a clear mindset.

Minnie - posted on 09/27/2011

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Yeah some of the people I know who are extremists (women have no reproductive rights to the point of allowing both mother and baby to die) would picket outside of clinics with signs.



They are the Christians who want to promote Christ's love and extol God's grace. :/

[deleted account]

I would never dream of asking a woman why she is terminating her pregnancy! I think that's downright disgusting, disrespectful, and crass. I don't know any extreme pro-lifers, but I am not oblivious to the fact they are out there and harrass woman seeking an abortion. Sad actually.

Merry - posted on 09/27/2011

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Amie, my sister in law had an abortion before I met her, I know this, she knows I know, but I've never even approached the topic. In my mind it's none of my business and I'll never ask her about it unless I was in a situation where I needed advise for a friend or something. Or if she brought it up.
But no, it's not something I'd ever ask a woman, even family, unless they brought it up in conversation.

Erin - posted on 09/27/2011

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Again, I don't understand this intense need to subject others to your own personal moral and religious code. If you believe abortion is always 100% wrong, DON'T HAVE ONE!! Carry that rapist's baby to term. Give that much wanted but impossible-to-provide-for baby up for adoption. Continue on with a pregnancy with a fatal diagnosis, putting yourself, your family, and your unborn baby through untold amounts of pain and heartache. Nobody is going to tell you not to. But don't impose those beliefs and decisions on others.

Nobody 'likes' abortion. Nobody celebrates it. I can't imagine what it must be like to go through it. But the option to acquire the procedure legally and safely needs to be there.

Charlie - posted on 09/27/2011

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anencephaly is only one of many exceptions there are a few other situations and fatal diagnosis , the fact is it is not a black and white issue there are many shades of grey and what a woman does with her body is her own personal and private choice, people can judge all they want but they have no buisness having a say in the final decision.



Yes there are extremists on both sides Im sure but none so hypocritical as those on the pro life side who claim to hold human life as sacred and yet kill in the name of their cause....this isnt pro life , its pro ego.



Personally I couldnt let a baby already in the stages where pain is felt continue to live a life of pain and suffering through a fatal diagnosis simply to make myself feel better , there is in my opinion no benefit for anyone but the mothers ego in that situation,but then thats my opinion only and not something I would force on anyone, I wouldnt assume my ideals were a perfect fit for all situations and push my beliefs on others ......but then again I would be all for legalised euthenasia too .....even animals have the right to be put out of pain and suffering.

Amie - posted on 09/26/2011

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So for those pro-lifers that have "conditions" on when it's ok - do you honestly think you'd have the balls to ask someone why they are getting an abortion or did?

If you won't (and I honestly do suspect a lot of you think you would but when faced with it - most will have a human side and know to not be nosey about something like this) then there's really no point in having that mind set is there?

It may make you feel better though I'm sure. Then again, it's not realistic. Unless you're a complete bitch (and yes, I've known a few of them) and feel the need to stick your nose right in, it is only a comfort in your own head. If that's enough, so be it. Obviously close friends and family are the exception since you would (I assume) know what is going on. I also choose to not judge or condemn my family or close friends though either.

I really do want to know though. I've only had one person ballsy enough to ask me why. (No, that is not an invitation to ask) She never asked again - and she sure as shit ran when I found out she was harassing one of my friends (who was pregnant but not aborting - the she bitch thought [god knows why] that she might). She is also why I'm very biased to the pro-life argument. I'm sure most are nice people but she is one of the crazies you want to punch in the face.

Anna - posted on 09/26/2011

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I personally know 3 women who have delivered babies with anencephaly and have been to the funeral for one of them (the baby, not the mother). The 2 that I have spoken with about it experienced a lot of healing through the birthing/burial process. It is hard to imagine the same could be true of the abortion process, but I admit I have no experience there. I guess that yes, I think they 'should' carry to term.

It's a very sad situation and is the exception in the abortion debate. You can't argue in favor of a practice based only on the exception.

Kate CP - posted on 09/26/2011

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...So...you think a woman who is carrying a baby with anencephaly should carry to term?

Anna - posted on 09/26/2011

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I'm surprised to see so many who think "extremists" exist only on the pro-life side. Or would you argue that partial birth abortion isn't extreme/doesn't really ever happen?

I'm pro-life and always will be. I have never been in the situation that these women have been in but I have close family members and good friends who have. I understand that it is an unimaginably difficult situation and I can't judge the hearts of those who face this decision. But I do know that abortion purposefully ends a human life, and that is a violence that simply cannot be justified. It grieves me that people think the pro-life stance is heartless in this, I by no means think it an easy thing to ask of any woman facing an unplanned pregnancy, I just don't see abortion as an acceptable solution.

Women facing death are in the unfortunate situation of healing themselves at the peril of another. The death of the unborn child is still a death, but it is one that resulted from the healing of the mother not out of the intention of killing a child. That is completely different (though still unfortunate).

Kate CP - posted on 09/26/2011

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I think that's where I have the hardest problem with pro-lifers: they usually assume that a woman who is going to have an abortion just found out earlier that morning she was pregnant and went "No fuckin' way am *I* having a baby!" and ran to the clinic. That's usually not the case. I've know a few women who have had abortions and all of them were heartbroken about it. They were very young, had no means to support themselves or a child, and made the decision after long periods of going back and forth to terminate the pregnancy. They still have regrets, they still feel the loss, but it was their choice to make. No one makes that choice lightly.

[deleted account]

Unfortunately, one of the most strongest women I know is someone who was carrying a Trisomy 13 baby, with additional defects-brain & heart. She went back and forth with her decision to terminate or not. This baby was not going to survive outside the womb. She had an option to abort, but she chose not to. It was her CHOICE-and thankfully she had that choice to make. Sadly, her baby girl died in utereo many weeks later and she delivered her 2nd stillborn. Like I said, one of the strongest women I have the privilege of knowing. Although this woman is pro-life, she is also realistic and was grateful to make a choice. She also knew that if that 11th hour miracle came though, the baby would have been given "comfort care" until she passed. In her research, she came across so many woman who had to make the agonizing decision to terminate or not. She also came to acknowledge that at one point she was a staunch pro-lifer, but has come to realize that every woman who makes this decision, healthy baby or ill, does not make this kind of decision on a whim. She is an advocate for bereving parents, and if any of you would like to be in contact with her, I will happily pass along her name. Just send me a message.

[deleted account]

If the baby is at/past the age of viability... you deliver the baby and try to save both. If the baby is NOT at/past the age of viability and the mom dies.... they both die.

Minnie - posted on 09/26/2011

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When I was in -that- church another woman and I were discussing ectopic pregnancies. We both said that we would take the drug to terminate it so that we wouldn't die- we had babies and husbands. Well her husband overheard us and chewed us both out- he said that we should trust God in that situation and that God knows best and if he wanted us to live that he would stop the ectopic pregnancy.

HELLO?!

Krista - posted on 09/26/2011

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Yep, there are definitely people who believe this. I was once foolish enough to get into an abortion debate on a conservative blog.

I stated that if my choices were to terminate the pregnancy or die, that I would terminate, and not leave my husband and toddler bereft.

More than one man told me that I was selfish, for putting my own life ahead of the unborn baby's.

And yet...I'm cynical enough to bet that if THEIR wives were in that situation, that they'd change their tune somewhat.

Minnie - posted on 09/26/2011

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I really had no idea there were extremists who would say a mom and baby should both die to avoid an abortion to safe the mom. That's ridiculous.

And I also thought it was a no brained that abortions should always be allowed for such cases where a doctor says your baby is suffering, or will NOT survive etc.




I personally know at least fifty people who believe this. :/



But these are people who believe a woman has no right to her own reproductive health at all and are 100% against birth control in any form whatsoever.

[deleted account]

Brittany, a save the mother or save the child is not a question of an abortion or not in your scenario. If she chose save her, they would try to save the mom first and then after she is in the clear, deal with the baby if its still alive. They won't start aborting the baby while saving the mother. Besides, at 7 months, that is a late term abortion and is illegal.

Plus, they DO ask the moms. they asked me when i went in for my emergency c-section when both of our lives were at risk.

Brittany - posted on 09/26/2011

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@ Laura,

When woman are "forced" to keep a child that is not going to survive or be in terrible pain outside of the womb, that is a heartbreaking decision for the parents to make.

I agree with everything you say in your post. I do not believe having an abortion, for anyone in their right mind, is an easy decision.

This is one case where yes, I would support the mother's decision. When woman have terminal children they run the risk of committing what is called a "mercy killing".

On the past there have been Tay Sac's support groups who offer support to parents and offer them guidance on the best way to "mercy kill" their child. So in this case you must ask yourself what would have been best for the child? Not to mention could you imagine knowing your child is in so much pain and they only way to cure their pain is to kill them or allow them to die a slow miserable death?

This is something I would never wish on my worse enemy.

Merry - posted on 09/26/2011

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I really had no idea there were extremists who would say a mom and baby should both die to avoid an abortion to safe the mom. That's ridiculous.
And I also thought it was a no brained that abortions should always be allowed for such cases where a doctor says your baby is suffering, or will NOT survive etc.
That makes me mad that anyone would judge a mom for aborting if her baby has zero chance of survival.
Sure some women would continue in hopes of a miracle and obviously that's their choice but in the case of a terminal baby I see it as an obvious choice to many women to end it before they get so very very attached.

Krista - posted on 09/26/2011

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A tale like what Kate related is not as uncommon as we would hope.

There are many women who get abortions, but who desperately want their babies.

But not all pregnancies are healthy. Anencephaly. Tay-Sachs. Sirenomelia. Those are just three of the many horrific things that can go wrong with a developing baby, and that can spell a death sentence for it.

So in cases like that, where it's a given that the baby will die, then I think it's inhumane to force the mother to carry that child to term, to endure the well-wishes of unwitting strangers and acquaintances, and to go through labour and delivery, knowing that there will be no 11th-hour miracle, and that her child, if not already dead, will suffer and die in her arms.

Some women would still carry the baby to term, and I respect their choice to do so.

But I do not respect any heartless asshole who would force a woman to carry to term in such a situation. Because in those cases, it's obvious that the person cares more about the principle of the baby, than about the baby itself.

Brittany - posted on 09/26/2011

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Teresa,

Let us make a hypothetical situation.

Jane is 7 months pregnant with her 2nd child and has been married to John for 8 years. Jane drops their oldest off at school and one her way back is hit and her car is totaled. The EMS arrives and they determine there is a possibility she will not make it to the hospital and the baby is in danger. In which case the hospital would call John, the husband and father, and he would make the choice. If it is a situation where they save the mother or save the child, once again it is the husband / father's choice.

I am not going to say this happens in every case because, no doctor is going to ask a woman on her death bed if she wants an abortion. For one, she is not in the right state of mind to make that kind of decision.

Brittany - posted on 09/26/2011

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""Now if the government could have better options for women, maybe less would feel so desperate as to end their pregnancy."

But do you honestly believe that the government has a right to impede on a woman's body and what is best for her? I sure as hell wouldn't want the government telling me if I was or was not allowed to have an abortion! It's not the government's business to decide what I want for myself!"

I believe what she was trying to say is to lower the current rate of abortions the Government needs to step up and stop being a bunch of spoiled brats. Stop worrying about how much money they can make and start worrying about the people they are supposed to represent.

If there was more education on the options woman have, besides abortion, then yes this could lower the rate of abortions. In reality this will not end abortion because, sometimes you just can not change someones mind. One would be SHOCKED to see how many woman do not know what services are out there for them. There are job placement services, housing services, school grants, SNAP and WIC (which is a whole other can of worms) programs, the list is huge. They just do not know it is there.

Kellie - posted on 09/26/2011

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That's a huge assumption Teresa, the Mother dying doesn't necessarily mean the baby would die too..

And that story right there Kate, is why I'm glad every day I live in Australia where that shit doesn't happen. At least so far that I'm aware of, and not in my state.

[deleted account]

I just want to argue against the statement that if you would allow for an abortion in the case of the mother dying you are pro-choice instead of pro-life. If the mother dies... the baby dies w/ her. THAT is not pro-LIFE cuz who's alive? No one. Saying that a mother can not have an abortion if she IS going to die.... would only be anti-abortion and in that particular case would be called pro-death... NOT pro-life. ;)

Kate CP - posted on 09/26/2011

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From http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/...

"Aaron Gouveia and his wife were already having the worst day of their lives. Then came the abortion protesters.

“You’re killing your unborn baby!”
That’s what they yelled at me and my wife on the worst day of our lives. As we entered the women’s health center on an otherwise perfect summer morning in Brookline, two women we had never met decided to pile onto the nightmare we had been living for three weeks. These “Christians” verbally accosted us—judged us—as we steeled ourselves for the horror of making the unimaginable, but necessary, decision to end our pregnancy at 16 weeks.
After extensive testing at a renowned Boston hospital three weeks earlier, we were told our baby had Sirenomelia. Otherwise known as Mermaid Syndrome, it’s a rare (one in every 100,000 pregnancies) congenital deformity in which the legs are fused together. Worse than that, our baby had no bladder or kidneys. Our doctors told us there was zero chance for survival.
♦♦♦
I’m not a religious person and I’ve never believed in heaven or hell. But there is a hell on Earth. Hell is sitting next to the person you love most and listening to her wail hysterically because her heart just broke into a million pieces. Hell is watching her entire body convulse with sobs because she’s being tortured with grief. For as long as I live and no matter how many children we have, I will never forget that sound. And I vowed to do everything in my power to make sure she’d never make it again.
Across a crowded street, two people with “God Is Pro-Life!” signs and pictures of torn-up fetuses managed to drive the blade in even deeper. Again, I was left trying to console the inconsolable, feeling even more helpless this time, because I wasn’t allowed into surgery with her..."

It goes on to show a confrontation the man has with the protesters. It's heart breaking.

People who are pro-life seem to think that the choice to end a pregnancy is oh-so-simple and is made with little regard for the baby. It's not. It's a heart-breaking, soul-crushing choice a woman has to make. Rubbing it in doesn't save a life.

[deleted account]

@Joy -- that's why you will find pro-lifers who are willing to blow up abortion clinics or shoot doctors.

JL - posted on 09/26/2011

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What I find hard to understand is how someone can have such extreme views on this subject. I have never met a pro-choice person who is absolutely undeniably Pro-abortion. Every pro-choice person I have met is a person who sees the reality of the world we live in. They are people who are pro women's rights who refuse to judge or pretend they know what it is must be like for someone actually having to deal first hand with the issue.

However I have more than once met extremists on the Pro-life side and that confuses because it's as if their is an absence of reality going on and a dismissal of the other dark things that happen in this world. The extreme view also prevents any of us from ever moving toward a place where we can say you know what I dislike the reality of abortion but I know that until life is perfect we can't make it illegal. BUT let us come together and find ways to reduce the use of abortion and the need. Let's work together to fix the problems in this world that bring women to such a dire point. Let's find solutions. Yes, it is not easy task but what great change is easy.

Laura I commend you for stating you see that and wish to work toward finding ways to reduce the need and help women.

As far as the extremist views go...well just remember extremism fosters intolerance, intolerance breeds hate and hate often leads to violence. Is that really the best path to take?

[deleted account]

In countries where abortion is illegal, it doesn't matter if the mothers life is at risk. They just let you die.
Some countries its illegal with exceptions though, not all are that barbaric.

[deleted account]

i think that abortion should be legal. yes there are people that will abuse it and use it as a form of birth control, but there are also the majority that don't.people who used protection and it failed or they were careless one time or they were raped. yes there is adoption, but there is a shortage of adoptive parents and kids who grow up in the foster care system tend to not grow up to be as psychologically/emotionally healthy as those who grow up in a family environment (with 1 family, not 5). and i think that to force a woman to carry for 9 months the child of a rapist is cruel. that is a constant reminder every day of what happened and then you have to go through the pain of labor. abortion should remain legal. although i would not personally get an abortion, i think that it's an individual choice

Merry - posted on 09/26/2011

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No Sharon, I don't have a college degree but my 'background' is sort of in social work! From my ages 6 months to 13 years my parents were foster parents to a total of 25 newborns. We worked in private adoptions where the birth mom chose to terminate rights, she chose a family and while the court paperwork stuff went on my family had the newborn. We

Ivied each one up from the hospital and had each one between 6 weeks to 9 months was the longest one cuz the bio grandma was fighting for custody even though the bio mom didn't want her to have him. (he ended up adopted by the family his mom picked:)

When my mom died there was a scholarship fund set up in her name for birth moms because she really had a way with these women and girls, one was only 14 :(

These babies were so loved, by their birth mom, and then by adoptive parents and in between by us! I remember each baby by name and they're a huge reason why I want to help women choose adoption over abortion. These babies in my mind were so very blessed to be alive and their moms were true heroes to me for letting them live happy and wonderful lives.

That shapes alot of my views on abortion I think.

And my brother was adopted the same way, we were his foster family but his adoptive family backed out because he was epileptic and my mom said no way would we let him go to state foster system so we adopted him! He was the third pregnancy, his dad was in jail, his mom loved her two kids but was living check to check and barely staying afloat. So she would have been a likely candidate for abortion but she chose to give him up and he really was the light of our family.

Jenni - posted on 09/26/2011

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I'm pretty sure saying all reasons for abortions are 'stupid', and everyone who gets an abortion is 'stupid', and abortion is 'murder'... blah blah blah, is why this debate is going on circles.

That doesn't really give us much to debate, now does it?

Charlie - posted on 09/26/2011

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Yes it is called theraputic ABORTION however most providers consider all abortions elective.

Tara - posted on 09/26/2011

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no there isn't it's called a medically indicated abortion or medically based abortion.
And it's not a "sad excuse" to try to use. If women will die because they are not given a choice to live and must instead sacrifice their own life for that of a fetus or unborn child, that is SAD.
It is also sad that people seem to think being pro-choice means pro-death rather than pro-life.
I am pro-choice because I believe that a woman needs to have that choice, for all the reasons stated below, but mainly because we are women and these are OUR bodies.
My body may be able to give life, but that should be my choice.
Not some government agency or board or doctor. My Body My Choice.

Stifler's - posted on 09/26/2011

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Termination and abortion essentially mean the same thing. Which is what they call it.

Cara - posted on 09/26/2011

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and I am done in this conversation as all it is doing is going in circles. I have my views you have yours. I can disagree and dislike yours and you mine. One of the joys of a debate. Now I am going to cook my family dinner. Hope you all have a great night

Iris - posted on 09/26/2011

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A rapist can be a very calculated person and the same goes with a molester. It has nothing to do with being "stupid" and to me calling it stupid is diminishing the ordeal. If you want me to read it differently then phrase it better!

Cara - posted on 09/26/2011

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I fully understand what pro-choice means. and if moms life is at risk it is not considered an abortion, there is a different term for that

Charlie - posted on 09/26/2011

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Cara does logic elude you ?
How do you propose a woman get an abortion if she is at risk of death without the choice to abort being legal ?

Perhaps you are one of those people who have trouble understanding pro choice doesnt mean pro abortion.

Cara - posted on 09/26/2011

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There shouldn't be multiple reasons to end someone elses life. plain and simple. And not "many" people would die. Thats a sad excuse to try to use.

Tara - posted on 09/26/2011

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@cara by stating that the only way it would be acceptable might be if the mom's life were in danger....
That is a pro-choice statement. If you were absolutely pro-life than terminating a pregnancy even if the mother's life were in danger would still be tantamount to murder and completely unacceptable. It would be nice if there were a grey area here. But really there isn't. Either you as a woman have a choice to end a pregnancy regardless of the reason (pro-choice) or you believe that no one ever has the right to end a pregnancy no matter what. (Pro-Life)
You can't have it both ways.
In order for you to have the option of aborting in the event your life were in danger, than there must be the option of choice to begin with.
In the event there was NO choice to abort EVER. Than many women would die because they wouldn't have the choice to live.

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