What makes a man a father?

Stifler's - posted on 04/08/2012

Many people get divorced and the kids still see their father sometimes and have a step father who does all this. This situation is no different to anyone elses even though you seem to think it's a special case.

Jodi - posted on 04/08/2012

Perhaps, if she IS so convinced she is doing the right thing, she should prove it by pointing him to this discussion, and the previous one. If she hasn't got the guts to do that, then deep down, she knows she is wrong.



A challenge for you Payola.

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

I'm just going to add that perhaps her father should be pointed to this forum where you admit to committing fraud with regard to a legal document.

Rebecca - posted on 04/08/2012

Do you want to know why people think you are either lying about some details, making things up entirely or that you have issues seeing outside yourself in order to be objective? Statements like this:



"My marriage counselor has agreed with me about me making this the bio fathers decision, out of respect for my husband. That is coming from a professional who is trained to help people."



No good professional "counselor" will give you a straight out opinion on your personal life, unless they are a terrible, untrained non-professional. They will ask you questions to guide you to realizations or ask you to think about certain questions...but straight out opinions - nope. I've straight out begged therapists to give me opinions on things - they don't do it.



So, either you made that up or you took something your therapist said and concluded it must mean what you wanted it to mean....like you did with MeMe's first post.



My advice, if you are actually real (which I don't think you are), is to go to individual counselling without the husband looming over. Certain personality types won't ever benefit from counselling, you know like sociopaths or people with NPD, but if you are neither - it might help quite a bit to sort this all out without hubbie listening.



I'm not sure why you want strangers opinions on the matter when they so obviously don't agree with you. It seems strange. Why would someone subject themselves to such disapproval? Unless, of course, it has to do with just stirring up disapproval, in which case, continuing to post threads about this would be useful. Otherwise, it just seems like you've got all the "opinions" you are looking for, enough for a lifetime. It is a curious thing.

Jaime - posted on 04/08/2012

what makes a man a "father" is being the "sperm donor".



what makes a man a "dad" is that he wants to be involved with his child/children and tries to be. even if it's once a month, that's a hell of a lot more than some people care to do. even if it's only once a month, that one day or weekend or whatever chance he gets to be with his child means the world to him and to the child, and if he's willing to teach and take care of the child when he has the chance (whether given it or not) then he's willing to be the dad and should be allowed to be.

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

Lol. Contact bio dad at your own risk. You too can hear him whine about me being a user and burning him and how is heart has ripped out, all the while he can move here and sue for rights and try to convince a court he can provide something good for thsvsituation. Plenty of judges have ruled against it. Ever thought Im doing him a favor by not gong after child support? Enough said

I sincerely wish you all a happy Easter.



No you don't. Please don't embarrass yourself by insulting the Christian religion (of which I'm not even a member) by posting a happy Easter when you clearly do not mean it.



You did use and burn him. You want him to move here. Again, I hope he does sue for a paternity test.



You aren't doing anyone any favors and I'm going to not post anymore because I will become rude.



But I don't think it matters. You're narcissistic. I hope your husband takes note of how easily you use and discard people at a whim. He could easily leave you and take both children. There is NO reason that you should automatically be given custody.



Congratulations on being a prime example of why the family court system need to change so that real justice is done.

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

What exactly is nuetral ground? And what if she doesn't want to skype and all that? What if she feels too estranged from him and doesn't understand? Aren't these issues worthy of debate?



And btw, my husband is legally her father so if he wants to be present he will be present. That's just something everybody needs to accept.



Only because you lied my dear. You LIED. YOU LIED. YOU LIED. YOU LIED. You lied on her birth certificate because it was convenient to do so. You have no moral high ground here.

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

I have an outstanding offer for him to come see her in a controlled setting respectful to my husband. That is more than generous considering I don't have to allow this.



Man, I hope he sues you for full custody and forces a DNA test.

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

I think it's time for everybody to put their thinking caps on. This is HIS decision and I have told him that and that he needs to stop trying to find a way to blame me for walking away from his own daughter.



You did walk away from him because you didn't want to be bothered with a long distance relationship. You then find it humorous that he can't afford to come very often while he's on duty in the Navy. What am I missing? Prithee do tell.



I thought the emotional blackmail from him was bad enough, but some of the comments on here are over the top.



Emotional blackmail? You mean like keeping his child from him and putting another man's name on her birth certificate even though it was a lie all because that's what you were feeling about at the moment?



She will HATE me for this? Even bio father has never said this to me. In fact he has said the last thing he wants is for his daughter to hate her mother and that he wants her to love and appreciate those who take care of her.



From this point, I have very high doubts you will portay him as anything but an emotional abuser who abandoned her. Yes, if she learns the truth, she will not thank you for it madam. It sounds to me like he loves her more than you do.



And guess what. Even if he wanted to, there's nothing he can do about it because I am her MOTHER.



And HE is her father! Yes, he has 100% legal right to see HIS child. I sincerely hope that he files for custody. Your attitude displays clear selfishness and narcissistic thinking.



I will have been there from day one, with my HUSBAND who was loving enough to sign the birth certificate to protect her from being legally subjected to a potentially disruptive man coming in and out of her life.



What part of you pushing him away at every opportunity do you not get? He's not disruptive. You however are deceitful.



My husband was concerned for me and thought I should get an abortion because he thought my daughter would ruin my career and our son would hate me

for creating a sibling with a tie to a man that betrayed his dad.



How about the fact that his mother betrayed his father? Has that come into your consideration at all? What' really happening is that you clearly were unfaithful and are now desperate to cover your tracks with no real concern about anyone but yourself.



But guess what. He loves her to pieces anyway and he is her dad because like MeMe said his role coincides with Dad, not bio fathers role.



BECAUSE YOU ARE FORCING HER REAL FATHER AWAY FROM HER AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY!



I know for whatever reason that is unpleasant information to digest but calling me a troll does not make the truth go away. It just doesn't.



The irony here is so thick, one could drive a tractor trailor full of manure over it.



And yes, that was with my thinking cap on.

Janice - posted on 04/08/2012

I think its really funny that dozens of women from different walks of life, different ages and different countries all think you are wrong. Yet somehow you are still convinced you are right.

Jodi - posted on 04/08/2012

AND I totally agree with Johnny.

Jodi - posted on 04/08/2012

Good God, lady, what planet do you live on? It sure as shit isn't the same place everyone else lives:



"son would hate me for creating a sibling with a tie to a man that betrayed his dad."

The MAN who betrayed his dad? Are you so blind you blame the bio dad because YOU betrayed your husband?



"That is more than generous considering I don't have to allow this."

Um, yes you do. If he decides to get court ordered DNA test to prove what you have done and get his rightful visitation, you'll have NO say in it.



"That's one of his problems, that he doent trust me."

I wouldn't trust you either. he is showing far more common sense than you give him credit for.



"You too can hear him whine about me being a user and burning him and how is heart has ripped out,"

And obviously, on your planet, this isn't the truth. On ours, it is.



"And Im not young and dumb. I'm an accomplished middle aged woman who has raised a good son. "

Which makes this even sadder. That you have reached this age and have developed into this person you have become.



Interestingly, you never answered where your son was when this long distance affair was going on! Good mother, huh? Betray your husband AND your son and you consider yourself a person of integrity?

Sally - posted on 04/08/2012

Post a reply!@ johnny , after reading your link. I agree

Dove - posted on 04/08/2012

You can't do visitations on your terms if he takes you to court. You WILL lose. Period. That's what people are trying to tell you. If he gets smart enough to take you to court.... you WILL lose. He's not a danger to your child's physical well being, so he would be granted visitations on the court terms... which will not include you or your husband's presence.... even if the child doesn't know him. Work WITH the man. Don't dictate things on your terms, but work together towards an agreement that works for him and you. Otherwise.... if he takes you to court... be expected to not only allow visitations where you are w/out you or your husband, but also be expected to fly her to him on your dime since you are the one that is keeping her from him.



You don't get to call all the shots simply because you are the mother. Most courts do not work that way. Those are the facts. Take it or leave it, but I'm TRYING to save you and your daughter a bunch of stress and heart ache. Get over thinking that you call all the shots because most courts now a days give just as many equal rights to the man that provided the sperm as they do to the woman that popped out the kid.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/08/2012

Yeah, I agree Johnny. I also agree this is a "bad" case of a Narcissistic personality.



Best to just leave it be. It's not going anywhere anyhow. Just makes me sad, there is a child out there that has such a dense parent. Meh. Nothing I can do about it, just hope, she gets her head screwed on properly and let's the kid and father have a relationship.



ETA:

I had a wonderful Easter and so did my kids, that I would do anything for, including something I may not be so comfortable with. As long as it could be a positive thing for them. ;)



You too can hear him whine about me being a user and burning him and how is heart has ripped out

You are a user. He is right.



I'm outta here. This is a complete waste of my time. I'd rather be picking my ass....

Payola - posted on 04/08/2012

Lol. Contact bio dad at your own risk. You too can hear him whine about me being a user and burning him and how is heart has ripped out, all the while he can move here and sue for rights and try to convince a court he can provide something good for thsvsituation. Plenty of judges have ruled against it. Ever thought Im doing him a favor by not gong after child support? Enough said

I sincerely wish you all a happy Easter.

Johnny - posted on 04/08/2012

I do not think this is a troll. I can see why people think that, but I'm not in agreement. But it is a waste of time to continue with this thread and argument because we are dealing with a severe case of:



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth...



It is just going to continue to rile people up and lead to more THUMPS violations because there is no reasoning in such a case. We are better off to ignore it and just pray or hope (whatever you do) that the biological father wises up and takes her to court soon.

Payola - posted on 04/08/2012

I AM listening. I have responded to remarks truthfully even if it's unpleasant to hear. Now I said I offered a visit so I am giving him a chance but it will be on my terms. Why have I offered a visit then????



For those of you questioning the legality of what I have done I suggest you check out legal forums like ExpertLaw Paternity. You will see other mothers going through this same ordeal, struggling with permanent connections to men who complicate childrens lives even if their intentions are good. And Im not young and dumb. I'm an accomplished middle aged woman who has raised a good son. The bio father is the young one and has never raised a child.

Dove - posted on 04/08/2012

Can I have bio dad's number? I'd love to give him some advice on how to handle this.



I'm going w/ troll too, Sally.... I hope. Well, I was going to say it's because I don't think anyone could be this bad, but unfortunately I know a couple of people in person that ARE this dense.

Sally - posted on 04/08/2012

Because shes a troll and getting a kick from winding people up. Why didn't she post this elsewhere after her last post.

Sally - posted on 04/08/2012

Because shes a troll and getting a kick from winding people up. Why didn't she post this elsewhere after her last post.

Amy - posted on 04/08/2012

"My husband didn't want an abortion, he thought I should get one, big difference", can you explain that difference to me because I agree with MeMe it's the same shit just a different pile!



You keep saying you wanted opinions yet you have no intentions of listening to any of them unless they are going to side with you, so why is it you keep asking, and saying the same things over and over!

Amy - posted on 04/08/2012

"My husband didn't want an abortion, he thought I should get one, big difference", can you explain that difference to me because I agree with MeMe it's the same shit just a different pile!



You keep saying you wanted opinions yet you have no intentions of listening to any of them unless they are going to side with you, so why is it you keep asking, and saying the same things over and over!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/08/2012

Payola---And btw, my husband is legally her father so if he wants to be present he will be present. That's just something everybody needs to accept.



No, he is not legally her father. That was done illegally. No one other than the birth parents are allowed to sign the birth certificate. I don't think you understand that.



All I hear are a lot of what if's. What if you just try it, a few times and see what happens. ;)



You're not going to be able to have answer's to all of your questions at first. You need to allow some of them to be answered by giving it a shot. There is nothing wrong with feeling unsure. It has been a year.



It however, is important to give it a shot. It is important to show yourself and your daughter, that you are not the bad person here. You are willing to give it a chance because it is the right thing to do.

Isobel - posted on 04/08/2012

a park, a coffee shop, anywhere that's NOT your house.



She won't like him at first, you'll have to keep taking her anyway until she gets to know him.



If your husband insists on being there when this child's real father visits, he's not a good father and doesn't know what's best for this child.

Payola - posted on 04/08/2012

What exactly is nuetral ground? And what if she doesn't want to skype and all that? What if she feels too estranged from him and doesn't understand? Aren't these issues worthy of debate?



And btw, my husband is legally her father so if he wants to be present he will be present. That's just something everybody needs to accept.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/08/2012

Payola---That's one of his problems, that he doent trust me.



Yeah, I am sorry. I would not trust you either. As a matter in fact, as it stands currently. I do not trust you. I don't even know you and I can honestly say, I don't believe I would want to.



I agree with Laura. Grow up. You are seemingly very young and immature. You will see, as you journey through life, what is important. Unfortunately, it may be too late for your little girl. Hopefully he comes back later in life and reunites with her. They both deserve the knowing of each other, it is not your choice and it never will be. You may be able to stand in the way until she is a teen but you will no longer have the ability to enforce a barrier, once she is older.



Why would you want to distruct something that may prove to be wonderful? Why not give it a chance and see how it goes?



Payola---My husband didn't WANT an abortion. He thought I SHOULD get one. Big difference.



No, I am sorry. Same difference. Ever hear of same shit different pile? Yeah, that's what that statement is. ;)

Isobel - posted on 04/08/2012

Visiting whenever it is possible while giving you adequate notice is more than enough...schedule phone calls or skype with him when she's old enough and have the visitations at a mutual place without your husband present. Send him photos and updates on her progress as she grows.



It's not really difficult. Grow up

Payola - posted on 04/08/2012

My husband didn't WANT an abortion. He thought I SHOULD get one. Big difference. He still loves her anyway.



Yes I thought I have asked for opinions about how to let him be involved. Bio father has asked this a few times as well wanting to know how visits would work and if I have thought it through and considered the awkwardness my family will feel. That's one of his problems, that he doent trust me.

I have just told him he can't be in and out of her life and popping up once in a while isn't good enough. I told him it's not fair to her that money and distance is a deciding factor. And I told him to stop putting this on me by asking these questions like it's all my responsibility.

Isobel - posted on 04/08/2012

His decision is to see his daughter and you are making it impossible for him. How is that making it his decision?



The controlled setting is YOUR HUSBAND'S HOUSE...that is absolutely an unfair way to do it. If you want a controlled setting choose a public place.

Sally - posted on 04/08/2012

I thought id never say this because i believe in freedom of speech but i wish the MODS would close this thread. Your going out of your way to get people het up.

Edit for spelling

Payola - posted on 04/08/2012

I'm not trying to convince anybody Im right. People going through situations don't see them clearly. I want others opinions, that's all. My marriage counselor has agreed with me about me making this the bio fathers decision, out of respect for my husband. That is coming from a professional who is trained to help people. But I want anonymous opinions.



I have an outstanding offer for him to come see her in a controlled setting respectful to my husband. That is more than generous considering I don't have to allow this. It's on him to act on that for however many times I allow it. If he does not, then it will be him who she hates. So far all I have from him is a bunch of whiney emails.

Sally - posted on 04/08/2012

Im not going to be pulled in to argue with you because if i truely expressed how i felt about you i would without a doubt be banned from DM . Thankfully the mums here have some brains and loys of love for their children. I do not wish to lose that.

Amy - posted on 04/08/2012

So your husband thought you should of had an abortion and this is who you call her father? The more you speak of bio dad the more you paint him to look like the bigger better person! I hope your right and your daughter doesn't hate you for what you're doing but I also hope that you grow up and put your feelings aside and let her have a relationship with bio dad!

Isobel - posted on 04/08/2012

You are incorrect.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/08/2012

Ummm...it is very reasonable and very accepted to have a child that has their bio-father AND their step-father involved. Actually, a lot of children have both of these types of relationships.



I really do not know what you are talking about anymore.



Payola---And guess what. Even if he wanted to, there's nothing he can do about it because I am her MOTHER.



Ummm, yes, she can still hate you or in the very least have ill feelings toward you, for not allowing her father to step up and do as he is asking and wanting to do.



Payola---My husband was concerned for me and thought I should get an abortion because he thought my daughter would ruin my career and our son would hate me

for creating a sibling with a tie to a man that betrayed his dad.



YOU and only YOU betrayed the boys Dad. Your daughter's bio-father is a very innocent part of this entire picture. Even if he was the worst person to ever walk this earth. He is not the one that left your to-be husband, had sex, got pregnant and then came back to your to-be husband (the boys Dad).



I have a really hard time understanding how you can blame only one person, in a two person equation. How do you validate yourself with such twisted thought?



There is no reason for him to not know his daughter. If I were your daughter and you kept me from knowing my bio-father (when he was a good guy), I would have some serious problems with you. Trust me. I know I would.



However, I honestly think your child is going to have some serious issues anyhow, no one, such as yourself, can call themselves a mother that cares about their child, in every possible way. You have proven, you simply do not. You care about yourself and your husband. I have yet to see a side to you, that shows you really care about your child and her best interests. If you did, you would be asking questions such as "What can I do to make it work?", "What things should I watch out for?", "I think it is best for my daughter but do not know how to go about it, any idea's?" You know, things that show you actually care and want your child to be happy.



It is obvious, you are either unsure or just want other's to validate your evil thoughts. I dunno which one but it is not going to happen here. Are you not understanding that yet?



Our opinions are not going to change Payola. It is best you close this thread and move on. People are not accepting of your idea's with this subject. People wish they had a bio-father as willing as your daughter's. I don't think you have a clue of how lucky you actually are.

Payola - posted on 04/08/2012

I don't sugarcoat things. I opined up an honest debate by being truthful about my feelings and those of others involved. Maybe honesty is a little too much sometimes. Believe it or not I listen to what people are telling me. I wouldn't be on here if I didn't care what others had to say. This situation hasn't been easy on anyone. I don't live with this situation in peace but Im doing what I think is right.

Isobel - posted on 04/08/2012

She WILL hate you for intentionally keeping her real father away from her. That's a guarentee. And Jenn's right, a woman who could be so thoughtless regarding the welfare of her own child is no mother by my standards...forget what makes a father.

Payola - posted on 04/08/2012

I have been accused of being a troll for not defending myself against being called a troll. Now I am a troll for doing just that. Whatever.

This is MY life and I think I know what's going on in it.

Sally - posted on 04/08/2012

you are a Troll and for me your last post confirmed it.

Payola - posted on 04/08/2012

I think it's time for everybody to put their thinking caps on. This is HIS decision and I have told him that and that he needs to stop trying to find a way to blame me for walking away from his own daughter. I thought the emotional blackmail from him was bad enough, but some of the comments on here are over the top. She will HATE me for this? Even bio father has never said this to me. In fact he has said the last thing he wants is for his daughter to hate her mother and that he wants her to love and appreciate those who take care of her. And guess what. Even if he wanted to, there's nothing he can do about it because I am her MOTHER. I will have been there from day one, with my HUSBAND who was loving enough to sign the birth certificate to protect her from being legally subjected to a potentially disruptive man coming in and out of her life. My husband was concerned for me and thought I should get an abortion because he thought my daughter would ruin my career and our son would hate me

for creating a sibling with a tie to a man that betrayed his dad. But guess what. He loves her

to pieces anyway and he is her dad because like MeMe said his role coincides with Dad, not bio fathers role. I know for whatever reason that is unpleasant information to digest but calling me a troll does not make the truth go away. It just doesn't.

Sally - posted on 04/08/2012

Its still here jen. Bout bio dad. It doesn't make nice reading and for me its the 1st time i have seen everyone agree.

Eta must have been typing when you posted

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

I guess I would ask what makes a woman a mother? Someone who callously excludes her child's father for personal reasons would not be my first choice.

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

Ok I found the other thread:

We were long distance and I ended our relationship while pregnant. He wanted to be a family with the baby and I couldn't handle a long distance relationship anymore.

I am with my husband now and he signed the birth certificate when my daughter was born last year. Bio father saw this as an attempt to exclude him. I just thought it to be more stable for us.



The bio father is in the Navy and does too far away to visit often, maybe one month at the most he says due to the cost and his job, etc.

I don't think this is good for my daughter. She is only 1 years old. I do not think he can commit to my daughter and even if he does I don't see any good coming from it. My husband would like to keep her as his own and not deal with her bio father.



Ok this combined with your op on this thread is one of the single most HEARTLESS things I've read in a good while. I can't believe a mother could be so cold. You left him! You made it hard for him to see her. You signed him off on the birth certificate. you are deliberately excluding him. If I were his mother, I would be begging/borrowing/stealing money for an attorney to sue for joint custody and mandatory visitation.

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

I must have missed yesterdays' post. CAn someone fill me in? I'm guessing there is more to this story.

Jen - posted on 04/08/2012

I would have to ask a very serious question. Who decided to move so far away?

Sally - posted on 04/08/2012

I didn't agree with your post yesterday and that hasn't changed overnight. Im more sure to-day though that you are a troll who is setting out to wind people up. If not, why didn't you post this elsewhere after the responce you received to your last post.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/08/2012

Payola---



Finally somebody understands. There is no need for the bio father to be involved. I have no use or patience for a man that can't be a DAD, his sperm or not.



Ummm, NO. I did not say I agreed with you and your crazy thoughts!



MeMe---The man that helped conceive your baby IS a father. So, yes, your first sentence IS a father. Just as the person that carried and birthed the baby IS the mother. Neither have to be involved in order to hold this title.



A DAD is something much more. Which would coincide with your 2nd sentence.



So a father can be the one that only takes occasional or even NO part in their child's life but a Daddy is the one that is there for them but not necassarily living with them. A Daddy can be one that see's their child frequently, outside the child's residence. One that takes a large part in their life and helps raise them in many ways, not just with money.



This is what I said. I most definitely did not say a father should not be involved or allowed to try and be that Dad. EVER.



If the father wants to try and is willing to sacrifice parts of his own life, which your daughter's bio father IS willing to do, then he has that right. He is the father and he has the right to become her DAD!



Please, do not ever put words in my mouth. I disagree with you whole heartedly on this subject. Unless you change your view, I always will. ;)



Now, the statements I gave were very general statements. I provided an excerpt into my own life with my Dad, thereafter. He was not there very much, however, he tried, he was there in a virtual mode. He lived too far away to be there every single day. He was and is my Dad. He is also my father. ;)



I said before, my daughter's bio father left when I was 3 months pregnant with her, he never ever looked back. He never ever called or even tried. He is still (unfortunately) her bio father, there is nothing I can change there. He just simply is because she was made from his sperm. Meh. However, he is and never will be her Dad, she was never given the chance to know him as her Dad, as your daughter does. She is almost 14 years old now, if he came back now, I would send him away. I would take his info though and pass it on to my girl when she was older and more apt to handle the person he is.



Your daughter has an opportunity to know her father. Don't ruin it for her. That is simply not a choice you should be allowed to make. It just isn't.

Lady Heather - posted on 04/08/2012

After my parents split my dads job took him to another town pretty far away. He could not afford to fly back to see us all the time. We saw him once every couple of months. He was still my dad. Is my dad's girlfriend suddenly my mum because she lives in town and sees me every week while my mum lives across the country and sees me once a year? No, thank god. If your kid's dad has to travel to visit and makes it up to a dozen times a year, good for him. I bet if you lived in the same place he would see her all the time.

Isobel - posted on 04/08/2012

and I grew up seeing my dad twice a year...I love him dearly and wouldn't trade him for the world.