Whooping cough is declared an epidemic in California

~Jennifer - posted on 06/25/2010 ( 49 moms have responded )

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Thu Jun 24, 2010
After 910 cases of whooping cough that have left five babies dead, California has officially declared the outbreak an epidemic. If that isn’t bad enough, the case load is 400 percent higher this year than last, putting the state on track to break a 50-year record. With an additional 600 pertussis cases currently under investigation, officials believe things are about to get worse. Those most at risk? Unimmunized or incompletely immunized babies, whose lungs are still developing.

"Children should be vaccinated against the disease and parents, family members and caregivers of infants need a booster shot," California Department of Public Health director Dr. Mark Horton said Wednesday. A full regimen of pertussis vaccines includes shots at 15-18 months, along with a last round between 4-6 years. Additionally, health officials recommend additional booster shots at age 10 to 11.

According to Santa Clara Public Health Officer Marty Fenstersheib, the disease, which is a highly contagious infection of the respiratory system, poses a significant risk to young children, whose parents mistake its symptoms for common colds. How do you know if your kid has whooping cough? First signs include runny nose, sneezing, mild coughing and low-grade fever, which evolve after 1-2 weeks into a dry irritating coughing spells. Spells sometimes, but not always, end with the distinctive “whooping” sound.

Of course, this recent outbreak calls into question whether parents who choose not to vaccinate children could be to blame. According to Kidshealth.org, the advent of the pertussis vaccine reduced the annual whooping-cough deaths in the U.S. from between 5,000 and 10,000 people to just 30 a year. Now, like the measles resurgence in 2008, which targeted children whose parents had refused to have their kids inoculated, whooping cough is back on the rise. Last year, the number of whooping cough cases spiked past 25,000, the highest level it's been since the 1950s.

The debate around vaccinations has been especially contentious in the U.S in the last few years, as parent groups have rallied around the belief that vaccines can be linked to numerous ailments, including autism (a belief based on a study which has since been entirely retracted by the medical journal which first published it). Despite any hard proof, these groups persist in choosing not to vaccinate their children, a process which, Dr. Paul Offit says poses its own dangers, as detailed in last October’s issue of WIRED.

“The choice not to get a vaccine is not a choice to take no risk,” he says. “It’s just a choice to take a different risk, and we need to be better about saying, ‘Here’s what that different risk looks like.’ Dying of Hib meningitis is a horrible, ugly way to die.”
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting...


........have at it.

=)

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Sara - posted on 06/25/2010

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I just want one person who choses not to vaccinate their child to admit that it's not just their own child's health they are risking, but other children's health as well...there's nothing that can be done if people chose not to vaccinate because it is, after all, a choice. I do know it is not one made lightly. However, it's not entirely a personal choice because it does affect, or has the potential to affect, people outside of your own family. So your "personal choice" does have an impact on other's lives. Personally, I think vaccination is an obligation as a member of society, because protecting yourself means protecting others.

Jodi - posted on 06/27/2010

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"First off to all the moms who vaccinate without question you have far too much faith in the CDC,."



Why do you assume people are vaccinating without question?



I also question why YOU believe the particular article you chose to post. After all, even he admits that most experts disagree with him, including his own colleagues, so why should we agree with him?



Also, Stephanie, given that Dr Wakefield was fully aware that half of the children participating in his study were involved in a lawsuit investigating the links between autism and the MMR vaccine, and he was actually being PAID in conjunction with that lawsuit as an expert witness for the campaign groups, those findings were absolutely false. Any study where the method is as questionable as this will result in false results.



It should also be noted that his study only included 12 children, hardly what could be considered a significant sample of the population. On the other hand, a Danish study showed no link betweem autism and MMR based on a study of over 500,000 children. And interestingly, despite reports, the incidence of autism did NOT increase when the MMR vaccine was introduced. So why is that?



And are you aware that Dr Wakefield HIMSELF has been quoted as saying "I never made the claim at the time, nor do I still make the claim that MMR is a cause of autism"......?



But people will believe what they want to believe in the wake of propoganda, which is exactly what Dr Wakefield's study was.

Christa - posted on 06/29/2010

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Fiona, that is why I said they USUALLY don't mingle between species. Flu viruses are a total different thing and much more complicated, which is why we can't create a good permanent vaccine for them. They mutate almost daily. And SIV did not become HIV by infecting humans with it. There is evidence HIV may have mutated from SIV or they mutated from a shared “ancestor”. There are many similar viruses that appear to be related that infect multiple species, however rarely does the EXACT same virus affect both species. If a virus does mutate then the old vaccine would be null and void anyway and would need to be treated by a new vaccine. The point I was making is the small pox virus is extinct. Could a mutation exist out there and someday re infect humans with a similar illness, sure. But that would be treated as any other new virus/pathogen. Now with the DTaP getting eradication would be much harder, because the pertussis in question is bacteria and bacteria can live places other the in humans(living hosts) more easily so even if we could get to no human cases we'd have a hard time saying it would never come back.



We will always have to fight against diseases. As we cure/rid the world of one another will emerge. It's basic biology and natural population control. The point is most people who choose not to vaccinate are making the over all health of the public worse in fear of some very rare and unlikely side effects. That IS the reason this disease is re emerging over the last 10 years. Hopefully people will get the message and we can get it back under control again, as it should be. I do understand those against new vaccines and things that are not deadly or 100% like the chicken pox or flu, but the ones that have been around for years, I find it selfish. Particularly because they have removed almost all mercury and the quality standards have gotten much stricter then they were back in the 50's and 70's that you cited. By not getting vaccinated you(general) are allowing these pathogens to remain active and the most likely victims are poor innocent babies who were never given a chance to fight them. It’s our job as a people to protect our young until they can protect themselves; to do otherwise is selfish. ESPECIALLY since there is no evidence to suggest that these common vaccines pose any harm. So you(general) are choosing the “ghost threat” to your child over the very REAL threat to millions of innocent babies. Selfish.

Rosie - posted on 06/28/2010

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First off to all the moms who vaccinate without question you have far too much faith in the CDC,.

so the moms who breastfeed, and put their babies to sleep on their backs are too trusting too i suppose? how do we know breastfeeding is a better option for mothers? cause research backs it up. i trust the research, and if it isn't researched i don't think the cdc or anyother health organization would recommend it.

andrew wakefield FALSIFIED the outcome of his study, as well as using questionable methods.

Sara - posted on 06/26/2010

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"A few people here have fully supported the idea that it is non-vaccinating peoples fault that vaccine preventable diseases are still present or increasing. I concede that this may be a contributing factor, but will repeat the point that in this case, this is based on circumstantial evidence, just as the link between autism and vaccines has been based on circumstantial evidence. If that lack of real evidence was enough for people to disregard the autism link then why is it valid enough to support the theory that anti-vaxers are to blame for this outbreak of whooping cough?"

I agree that even if we all got vaccinated, diseases would still be present in the world, that's just a fact. But, there is evidence to support that outbreaks in preventable disease are increasing due to people chosing not to vaccinate their children and not being vaccinated themselves. In the 2008 measles outbreak in San Diego, for example, a single case of measles from an unvaccinated 7-year-old child returning from overseas sparked an outbreak that exposed 839 people and sickened 11 other children. None of the 12 children who contracted it, who ranged in age from 10 months to 9 years, had been vaccinated -- nine because their parents had refused the vaccine and three because they were too young to get it. When you have evidence with other infectious disease that unvaccinated people are the reason for the breakout, I think it's logical and safe to assume that this is probably the case for whooping cough as well. Though I would venture to say that because people neglect to get their boosters for the whooping cough as adults, they are as much to blame as completely unvaccinated people, since they can carry and spread the disease.

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Rosie - posted on 06/29/2010

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i don't know, i've been ...ooo, ooooh....seeing some , oooo, oohh, hair in some places that, ooooh, oooh, wasn't there before. (i say this all as i eat a banana and scratch my armpits)

Christa - posted on 06/29/2010

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"More than 320,000 Africans were given experimental live oral polio vaccine in the late 1950's. The vaccine polio virus was cultivated on African green monkey kidney tissue, as it is today."

I want to say one other thing about this. Because viruses need a living host they do need to be grown on a living host. Usually a cell line, depending on the difficulty of the virus the cells needed will differ. This is the best way of recreating the virus without infecting a human and using them as a guinea pig. (which I’m certain no one would prefer over using other species cell lines) Again these methods have been tested and proven over time to be harmless. People hear bits and pieces and freak out. Some parts from a monkey cell are not going to turn you into a monkey. :-P Any fragmented pieces that might get through the purification process would be processed by your immune system like any other foreign agent. Now another virus could cause a problem but like I said the quality processes are SO much more accurate and stricter then they have been in the past. Especially for the vaccines like DTaP or MMR that have been around for YEARS.

Jodi - posted on 06/29/2010

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Which one are you laughing at Sharon? C'mon, let us in on the secret!!!

Jodi - posted on 06/29/2010

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It could have been typhiod. I honestly can't recall. It is usually only required if you are travelling to an area which has had a recent outbreak (in the past 6 months or something I think) of a disease which is not present in Australia.

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Jodi, you are absolutely right. I guess that does make some travel vaccinations mandatory, unless you are prepared to either not travel to particular countries or prepared to undergo quarantine on return. Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps the other disease is typhoid, at a guess. They were the two that were recommended to me when travelling last, but that was quite some time ago.

Lea - posted on 06/28/2010

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People too stupid to get vaccinated can also opt-out of the gene pool for all I care, but babies too young to be vaccinated that are at risk and thats why we all need to be vaccinated.

Jodi - posted on 06/28/2010

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"As for travel, travel vaccines are not mandatory they are optional. I have never been asked about my vaccination history when travelling."



Fiona, it depends on where you travel. For instance, some years back, I had to be vaccinated for Yellow Fever before travelling in areas of Africa, because without the vaccination, I would have to have been quarantined on arrival back in Australia. They basically would not have let me back into the country without it, and yes, I had to have full vaccination records with me. I do know the same condition exists with some other disease. So it depends a lot on where you travel to.

[deleted account]

Hannah, I have stated my reasons for not vaccinating and I think you will find a lot of people who do not vaccinate do so for similar reasons but may be reluctant to voice their opinions on this thread where they will feel like the minority and at threat of being attacked or called selfish, stupid, lazy or ignorant. One of the biggest concerns among non-vaccinating parents is the ingredients and manufacturing and preserving techniques of vaccines. We are reluctant to pump so many toxic ingredients into our small and vulnerable children in so short amount of time (especially when you consider the extensive and steadily increasing childhood vaccination schedules in the USA and Australia), many parents choose delayed vaccination schedules for the same reasons. Maybe the benefit of vaccines outweighs the risk for you and many others but others are more cautious and many not prepared to take that risk at all, instead trusting other measures to minimise the risk of their child contracting an infectious disease.



Christa you raise a very valid and interesting point regarding the interspecies link between viruses. While it may seem that it is unusual for viruses to spread from animal to human, it does in fact happen as in the case of swine flu, avian flu, hendra virus etc among others. One of the main concerns among anti-vaccination campaigns is this link and the fact that the majority of vaccines are manufactured using animal sera and animal cell tissues. While it may seem unlikely, there is actually evidence to suggest that not only is it a risk in mutating viruses and allowing the opportunity for animal viruses to hybridise into human viruses. It has also been raised in many reports and studies by reputable scientists and doctors on the connection between the creation and use of early polio and hepatitis B vaccines and the evolution of HIV.



Scientists suspected as early as the 1950's, and knew by the 1970's that polio vaccines had been contaminated with simian (monkey) viruses. Apart from contamination with SV40 virus, there is evidence that simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) may also have crossed species to humans through contaminated polio vaccines.



More than 320,000 Africans were given experimental live oral polio vaccine in the late 1950's. The vaccine polio virus was cultivated on African green monkey kidney tissue, as it is today.



SIV contamination of the vaccine is said to have provided the opportunity for a monkey-human hybrid known as human immunodeficiency virus or HIV to evolve.


info taken from Microbiologist Howard Urnovitz presentation to the 8th Annual Houston Conference on AIDS.



I would like to address the issue someone else raised of further complicating our children's lives when/should they choose to travel or attend certain schools or universities as adults. My own personal stance on this is that if my children decide as adults to get vaccinations, that is their choice as consenting adults and I would have fewer concerns as their immune systems will be more thoroughly developed and more capable of withstanding the results. As I have stated on many threads on this topic, I myself as a nurse have given and received many vaccinations in the past and am not anti-vaccination per se, just not choosing to vaccinate my family (that does include myself currently not receiving any new vaccines). As for travel, travel vaccines are not mandatory they are optional. I have never been asked about my vaccination history when travelling. As for schools and universities, I live in Australia where vaccinations are not mandatory (they can never be due to allergies and religious beliefs) for attendance at any school or uni. When I did my bachelor of nursing, it was recommended we be up to date on certain vaccines but not enforced. I and my doctor have completed and signed a conscientious objection form that has been submitted to the government regarding my child's unvaccinated status. There may be some childcares that request vaccine status be up to date on enrolment but part of my beliefs on this issue mean that my child will not be attending those large childcare centres as we have other options should our children require outside of family care. Public schools in Australia cannot refuse a child's enrolment or attendance due to their immunisation status.

Hannah - posted on 06/28/2010

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I meant it just seems like the risk outweighs the benefit when NOT vaccinating.

Hannah - posted on 06/28/2010

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For all the moms that do not vaccinate, I want to know why you chose not to. Many say they made a very INFORMED decision. I know one mom did state her case but I am really truly interested in finding out why the others don't. It just seems like the risk outweighs the benefit when vaccinating.

Christa - posted on 06/28/2010

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Stephanie, I find it odd that you are willing to trust a man who thinks it's better to pump a newborn/young baby with a bunch of very strong and not recommended during pregnancy antibiotics AFTER they've contracted this illness that he himself admits can take months to recover from even with treatment, over a couple of shots that have been proven (again he admits this) to be harmless. Not very good logic if you ask me.

Sharon - posted on 06/28/2010

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Stephanie - I truely resent your implications that I am so sheep led around by others.

you are perfectly ignorant to make such a statement that I trust the CDC blindly. In the absence of contradicting information - yes of course I believe the CDC.

But I did my research before deciding where to place my trust.

You, quoting some fathead who freely contradicts himself & who was working for those engaged in a lawsuit was a stupid, lazy, and not thought plan of attack on those who do vaccinate.

Stephanie - posted on 06/27/2010

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First off to all the moms who vaccinate without question you have far too much faith in the CDC,.

Here is an artcle from Dr. Jay Gordon that should really really be considered:
Jun 25, 2010
Pertussis, Tylenol Recall and More
California declared a pertussis (whooping cough) epidemic this week. The California Department of Public Health reports 910 confirmed cases, including the death of five infants since the beginning of the year. The Department of Public Health is urging all families to vaccinate against this disease.

Whooping cough, also known as pertussis, is a bacterial respiratory tract infection. It begins looking like most other upper respiratory illnesses:

There may be nothing more than a runny nose and sneezing, often with little or no fever. The first coughs can look like a common cold. After 1-2 weeks, this may progress to a stage characterized by bursts of numerous rapid coughs (paroxysms, a “machine gun” cough) followed by a loud “whooping” inhalation, which gives Bordetella Pertussis the alternative name of “whooping cough.” That “whoop,” however is not an invariable part of the illness. A final recovery stage with coughing may last weeks or months. It’s a nasty illness which the Chinese call the “100 day cough” and their number is not far off. In most cases, whooping cough is a truly miserable cough that can ruin a family’s summer plans and mean a lot of missed days of work and school. In very rare cases, it can lead to much more serious conditions. The risk is highest for infants in the first six weeks of life who can get very sick and even die from it.

At the present time, I’m aware of two families in my practice who I believe have pertussis. I have no laboratory confirmation and in neither case has anyone in the family required hospital care.

The media and many official medical organizations get the discussion of “epidemics” wrong as often as they get it right and when they finally have something to talk about in the press it’s hard to sort out the truth. Before you read any further, have a look at this New York Times article about the whooping cough “epidemic that wasn’t.”

This time, unlike the H1N1 “pandemic” scare, the avian flu hype, the measles epidemic of 132 cases, the Jewish mumps scare and the West Nile Virus fear posters at every trail head, the pertussis outbreak information might be real and might be a reason to consider getting your child vaccinated. Whooping cough is not easy to diagnose with lab tests and doctors and parents often must rely on their clinical impression the cough and the pattern of disease spread. According to the official website of Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, an article reviewed by Dr, Paul Offit estimates that there are between “600,000 to 900,000″ cases of pertussis each year in adults and adolescents alone. This stands at odds with official data from the CDC which puts that number at 5000-10,000. This type of disparity makes the discussion of pertussis outbreaks and vaccination just a little more difficult.

I think the DTaP vaccine is the shot with the best risk/benefit ratio and it’s the vaccine I use the most often in my office week. The official schedule includes far too many shots for six-week-old babies. A lot of harm and confusion could be alleviated by vaccinating later and not giving five or six vaccines at the same time.

This “acellular” vaccine does not contain mercury (almost no vaccines still do) and has been in use for nearly fifteen years in the United States and for quite a few years before that in other countries.

DTaP vaccine prevents whooping cough and may even prevent illness or lessen the severity of illness after the first vaccine. The routine schedule includes three doses in the first six months of life, a fourth at eighteen months of age, a fifth at age five years and booster doses of a new adolescent/adult vaccine. I don’t think your babies under a year of age should be given any vaccines, including this one. The CDC and most doctors, including my colleagues in this office, disagree.

Erythromycin, Zithromax and similar antibiotics can shorten the contagious phase of pertussis and can stop the spread of the illness in a family or a school. Our office has DTaP vaccine for infants and young children and another for older children, adolescents and adults. I do not recommend this vaccine for infants unless there are unusual risk factors in a baby’s life. Again, the vast majority of experts disagree, and I understand the need for public health considerations and preservation of herd immunity but still would rather vaccinate only after 12-24 months of age and feel comfortable, in most cases, giving no vaccine at all.

Ultimately this is a parents’ decision. Do not expect the media to let up on this issue in the near future.

It should also be noted that the only reason The Lancet retracted Dr. Wakefield's findings on Autism related to vaccination is because of the METHOD he got his case studies not because the FINDINGS were false....

Christa - posted on 06/27/2010

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Sara,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

http://www.polioeradication.org/casecoun...


The WHO org has declared it eradicated world wide since 1979. Polio is getting very close.

Both Polio and Small Pox are viruses and viruses need a living host to survive (well to survive very long in most cases). So if there are no known cases then the virus is not living anywhere, therefore should not be able to resurface. Granted there is always a possibility that it is living in some monkey or something somewhere, but usually viruses don't mingle between species. So basically, no small pox should never reoccur, but I'd never be so arrogant to say 100% that it won't. But our best knowledge says it won't. We could do this with most other viruses IF the world would be compliant.

Rosie - posted on 06/27/2010

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the only shot that is given to kids in the united states that has thimersol in it still is the flu shot.and even then, it contains less mercury than a tuna fish sandwich. no other vaccine does.



@katherine. i felt the same way when i saw that video, but i think that whooping cough seems more like a cold in adults. i don't think it shows itself the same way as it does in a child. still she was sick so she should've taken better precautions, but i don't know if i can honestly say i wouldn't want to hold my newborn baby if i was coughing. i think i might.



i've seen a TON of public service announcements regarding pertussis lately. it's urging people to get themselves vaccinated as adults.



i wish people like jenny mccarthy would just shut up, and give facts instead of her opinions. i saw her interview with larry king and it made me understand her POV a bit better, but she is instilling a fear that i feel is unnecessary until there is proof. she wants to go back to the 1989 shot schedule when there were only 10 shots given-i always thought she didn't want people to vaccinate at all. i would just need some type of proof, and there is NO proof that vaccinations are harmful or cause autism. she thinks that there hasn't been enough research done on it. i'd like to know how much research has been done on it. all i know is that without vaccines, alot of us wouldn't have our children around, or else they'd be crippled or brain dead or something. that's not on option for me, so i'll keep vaccinating, thank u very much.

Sara - posted on 06/27/2010

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"Sara I wanted to correct/clarify this comment. We have actually successfully eradicated Small Pox and there is talk of Polio being close too. So it is possible to get rid of these diseases if the world would cooperate."

That's cool, but it is my understanding that in many third world nations where vaccinations are not readily available, polio and small pox are still present, and people still contract them and die from them, among other communicable disease that is rarely seen places like the US. And in places where people have stopped vaccinating for whatever reason, don't you think it's possible for some diseases to come back?

Katherine - posted on 06/27/2010

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Sorry Sharon, that comment was for Sharon G. It just boggles my mind that, that poor woman was in the HOSPITAL giving BIRTH coughing like crazy and they had no idea or even a clue, "Hey maybe she's sick." So she passed it on to her newborn. That irks me.

[deleted account]

I'm torn. On the one hand I do feel that I vax so that other parents don't have to. I think it's an obligation to vaccinate in order to eradicate certain diseases.



There are some that I don't agree with like the flu shot. The reason is because it doesn't eradicate flu and it has to be done on a seasonal basis. Now if a flu shot became available that provided life long immunity and eradicated flu, I might consider it.



Some people might think that not getting the flu shot is selfish too, so I can see it from the anti vaxers perspective to some extent. I also think that anti vaxers are performing a service by holding the vaccines accountable.



The only way to restore people faith in vaccines is to reintroduces separate shots and cut the mercury levels because we can't force anyone to vax if they refuse. Had it not been for anti vaxers we would be expected to just blindly follow whatever were told and accept it without challenging anything, but the fact is the safety of the vaccines could and should be improved.

[deleted account]

I am 100% pro-vax and I simply can't trust that others protect thei child the same way. In a school setting, I am exposed to hundreds of kids and who the hell knows if they have had their shots, or up to date, or what unknown diseases lurk in a dormant state. The only thing that pissed me off about my son's vax was that he DID receive the chicken pox vax at age 3 and that was only because my husband took him for the appt. that day. It was my own fault and I can take full blame for the lack of communication regarding that visit. Hubby just signed off on it. I remember being so livid that he got the chicken pox vax, but what's done is done. I hope there are still lots of kids around that will get the chicken pox so I can send him to play! But in case we all live in bubbles, you are always exposed to people in a public setting. We have no idea who is protected and who is not, who is carrying a disease, who is not. I personally think not vaxing your child is selfish and can possibly set up your child for bigger problems later on in life when trying to visit abroad or apply for universities.

Katherine - posted on 06/26/2010

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@Sharon, just watched that video. It's amazing the chain reaction that happened, but what pisses me off the most is that no one diagnosed this woman who was pregnant with the whooping cough!!!! If she was that sick, wouldn't they have had a damn clue? That poor baby, so glad he didn't die. Just reminds me of being in the hospital in labor with my second telling them, "I can't breathe, something is wrong..." while I'm coughing up my lungs. They did nothing and 2 days later I went to my PCP and got an x-ray done and had pneumonia!!!!! So technically the spread could have been prevented. I know that's not the point. She got it from a unvaccinated child....That particular scenario irks me though.

Christa - posted on 06/26/2010

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"I agree that even if we all got vaccinated, diseases would still be present in the world, that's just a fact."

Sara I wanted to correct/clarify this comment. We have actually successfully eradicated Small Pox and there is talk of Polio being close too. So it is possible to get rid of these diseases if the world would cooperate.

I think it's foolish for anyone with no specific medical reason to not get the vaccines like the DTP that have been around for years and are proven safe. I agree with Jenny on the chicken pox, flu and anything new. But the things that have been proven over years and years to be safe and beneficial should be given to all children. They also gave me my booster after I had my last child in February and gave me information for my husband, grandparents or any other care providers to get theirs for close to nothing as well. So they are putting a focus to get adults their boosters. This should not be a problem in today’s society and the fact that it is, is saddening and maddening. My cousin’s baby got this at 6 months and the poor thing was miserable, thankfully survived with no long term effects, but that should never have happened in the first place. She's 7 now so this is not a new problem.

Jodi - posted on 06/26/2010

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"I would venture to say that because people neglect to get their boosters for the whooping cough as adults, they are as much to blame as completely unvaccinated people, since they can carry and spread the disease."

You are absolutely correct there too Sara, and we, as adults, should be more responsible with regard to our boosters. Because I used to travel a lot internationally (haven't done so for a while), I always kept up with my vaccinations, but how many others could say the same?

Tanya - posted on 06/26/2010

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http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/addi...

I had to get my Rubella again. I was given the shot as a child but my immunity was gone by the time I was pregnant. They gave me the Rubella and the Whooping cough before I left the hospital. They knew I was breast feeding and said that I would pass on some of the anti bodies to help protect my son.

Jenny - posted on 06/26/2010

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I'm with Laura. I did vaccinate but on an extended schedule and refused chichen pox, flu shots and anything new.

Charlie - posted on 06/26/2010

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Sarah same thing happened when i was teaching and pregnant , they sent their children to school with rubella while i was pregnant , i had been vaccinated but how were they to know that ? they could have effectively deformed or worse killed my baby , i was furious anyone would take the risk .

Sarah - posted on 06/26/2010

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Sharon we really SHOULD make them all watch that!
I'm pro vaccinations.
There was a case of German Measles at my eldest's nursery when I was pregnant with my youngest. Luckily, nothing happened to me, but it COULD have.

People need to realise that not vaccinating CAN have an effect on those around them.

[deleted account]

I'm just going to comment that I DO vaccinate....I want to receive emails so I can keep up with this post; I'm always fascinated!

Jodi - posted on 06/26/2010

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Katherine, babies are the ones in danger, and they are the ones who can't be vaccinated. Unfortunately 1 in 200 babies who contract the illness will die, and whooping cough has a 90% contraction rate following exposure......so it is extremely contagious, and together with an approximate incubation time of 10 days, those who are unvaccinated wouldn't even know they had it when they infected someone else. It isn't about personal danger to myself or my children per se, but rather responsibility to the community as a whole.



In third world countries, it is a major contributor to the infant mortality statistics, as it was in developed nations prior to the vaccination. Do we really want to go back there?

Lucy - posted on 06/26/2010

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Katherine, my issue with it is that a non vaccinated child with a not too bad case could pass it on to my little ones before they are old enough to have received all their vaccinations. Babies of this age are the most likely to suffer the worst, and the most likely to die from whooping cough, before the parents have had the chance to protect them.

Katherine - posted on 06/26/2010

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I'm going to say something that someone else said and I know that it's a population ratio thing, but if your child is vaccinated, then why be concerned about the UN vaccinated? Not only that there are different strains of different things ie: flu that aren't covered in vaccinations. That being said there really is no GUARANTEE. I am not anti btw, my kids are up to date, but I am seeing it from a different perspective.

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I do not vaccinate for a number of reasons, the one which will probably be most important to a lot of people here is that my brother had a very bad adverse reaction to childhood vaccinations which caused a multitude of long lasting health effects. With that in my family, I was cautious to just accept routine vaccination for my child. Another reason is that I personally have a poor history of seroconversion of vaccines, I have received vaccinations in the past and not developed antibodies, thus still not being 'immune' to that disease.

Following these two reasons led me to doing a lot of research regarding vaccinations that gave me a whole heap of reasons not to vaccinate. Such as the ingredients used in the manufacture and preserving of vaccinations (yes there are cells from monkeys, also cows, pigs, chickens etc as well as human diploid cells from aborted foetuses, although these are not in opposition to any religious held belief of mine) such as toxic compounds, mercury based derivatives, fertility suppressing compounds, antibiotics, live attenuated virus strains and many more, too many to list here but enough to give me cause for concern. As well as this, I have philosophical objections and ethical concerns about the pharmaceutical industry that creates more and more vaccines and promotes increased vaccination schedules often with limited safety testing in some developed countries where the public use is subsidised by the government and yet continue to withhold these and other 'life-saving' medications from developing countries who cannot afford to pay for release of the patents. These same companies who reserve the right to conduct their own tests on the safety of their products and to withhold the results if they are unfavourable so long as they do not release the product without it being then modified.

I have concerns about how many parents are told to vaccinate their children while being given little or no information about the risks or the possibility of adverse effects. How medical professionals to this day still advise parents to give their child paracetemol (acetaminophen/tylenol in the USA) before and regularly after receiving shots while the evidence has been around for quite some time now that doing so affects the body's immune response to the vaccine often resulting in a lower serum antibody count. This means that a lot of children receiving the vaccine are not actually 'immune', or not 'immune' enough to contribute to herd immunity. They may not display severe symptoms if exposed to the virus after vaccination but are still more than capable of carrying it and exposing others (one thing that so many people fear of my own child's ability), in fact many 'fully' vaccinated people still have the ability to carry and expose others to viruses despite having been exposed to them. If our trusted health professionals and creators of these medications cannot get it together enough to make this information generally known to the consumers of their products, why should I trust my and my children's health to them without searching for more info?

I would be happy to oblige you and say that when I made this decision to not vaccinate my child, I did so fully aware of the risks to him and the risks to others. If there was ever an epidemic of a disease that my unvaccinated child was at risk of I would do everything in my power to minimise risks to my son and others, I would absolutely quarantine him until told it was safe, if he ever displayed symptoms or turned out he had been exposed to a disease that could be spread to unvaccinated people (as a registered nurse I have confidence in my ability to recognise symptoms and risk), again I would minimise risk as best as I could, I would quarantine him and alert the authorities. I am open about my son's unvaccinated status, I inform friends with children, especially those younger than he. I do everything possible to maintain and boost my child's health and immune system, I am currently looking into homeopathic, naturopathic and osteopathic options to mainstream vaccinations. Do people who do vaccinate accept the same responsibility? Do they keep their freshly vaccinated with a live attenuated virus vaccine children away from immunocompromised people (the elderly, people undergoing or have undergone cancer treatments, pregnant women, younger children etc)? Do they conduct regular serology tests after vaccination to assess their child's immune status or the efficacy of the vaccine? Would they be expected to accept responsibility if their incompletely vaccinated child gave a preventable disease to another? Or absolved because they are 'trying to do the right thing and not everything can be prevented'?

A few people here have fully supported the idea that it is non-vaccinating peoples fault that vaccine preventable diseases are still present or increasing. I concede that this may be a contributing factor, but will repeat the point that in this case, this is based on circumstantial evidence, just as the link between autism and vaccines has been based on circumstantial evidence. If that lack of real evidence was enough for people to disregard the autism link then why is it valid enough to support the theory that anti-vaxers are to blame for this outbreak of whooping cough? (just to state here that the autism-vaccine link was not one that really factored into my decision in not vaccinating, I am still awaiting real evidence of incidence association).

I also could go on forever about this as I too feel very strongly about it. I am sure that to many I come off as a conspiratist crackpot or as overemphasising risk or whatever. I am not trying to change anyones mind, I am not looking for some mother on COM to change mine. But my point is as it always has been, I made an informed choice, I accept the risks this poses for my family and for the community. It is not a decision I made lightly and it is one I reassess regularly based on new information. My personal choice may have an affect on others, but I believe that is the case for people who vaccinate as well.

Tanya - posted on 06/25/2010

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I just think too many people make the choice based on bad info. I remember reading in one thread that she wound not vaccinate because it was made from monkey cells and aborted baby cells.

Isobel - posted on 06/25/2010

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I never take part in these debates (mostly cause I don't feel that strongly either way...it appears that I might be the only one)

I just wanted to say that while I do vaccinate, cause I'm supposed to...it does creep me out a little to put that much foreign matter into my family's bodies.

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I had whooping cough in 2006. You NEVER want it, trust me. I was put out of work for 3 month and it took me a good 6 months to fully recover. My soon to be ex husbands grandmother flipped when she found out I had it. She watched children die from it while in a German internment camp during WW2. She was terrified that I would die from it and there were moments that I thought I would. Everyone around me got their boosters because it was bad.

I honestly don't get the objections to vaccines. We know there is no autism connection, we know it. So what's the issue?

Sharon - posted on 06/25/2010

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"IF" the whooping cough has mutated and is no longer controlled via vaccine, the mutation will be discovered shortly and proper blame assigned.

But how did it get a toe hold to begin with? It was virtually extinct here?

Anti-vaxers.

Charlie - posted on 06/25/2010

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Personally, I think vaccination is an obligation as a member of society, because protecting yourself means protecting others.

I agree Sara !

Caitlin - posted on 06/25/2010

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Well, yes.. anti-vaccine parents are partially to blame, because their kid might get it and get no complications but pass it onto a baby who is too young to be vaccinated fully against it, adults who arent' vaccinated can do the same. I still think it's irresponsible to not get your child vaccinated unless there is a severe medical reason why your child CANNOT get the vaccine (for instance, my daughter cannot get the annual flu shot..) These viruses that were almost irradicated years ago are resurfacing, not because the virus has changed, but because what has been done for many years now with so few side effects is suddenly "dangerous" like underwire bras give you cancer.. One has nothign to do with the other and yes, I still stand by if any mother I know didn't vaccinate their kid, their child would never be welcome at my house, my child would never be allowed over there (until everybody in the household were vaccinated at least) and if ANYTHING happened to my kids because they got it from the unvaccinated kids, I would press charges and drag them through the mud creating a whole S*** storm about it because it's not just a risk for their kids, it's putting everyone that comes in contact with them at risk.

Those pediatricians that stand by a parents decision not to vaccinate simply because they "don't believe in it" should be sanctioned by the medical board for malpractice and not fully disclosing the risks of their actions to the parents. They shouldn't force the parnets to vaccinate, but they should make sure the parent is fully informed about the topic at the least (and sign a liability waiver stating that the risks have been fully explained and they still refuse the vaccine) that was we can nail the butts to the wall when something happens.. No denial and those sob stories about "oh if only I knew.."

I could go on, I feel very strongly about this...

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Oops, don't know what happened with the teeny tiny font. Was just trying to quote some of the original post. Sorry if it is hard to read.

[deleted account]

Oh, great here we go again...

Lets all heap shit on the anti-vaccination crew again.



Of course, this recent outbreak calls into question whether parents who choose not to vaccinate children could be to blame.




"could be to blame"

there is no evidence this is a result of an increase in people choosing not to vaccinate their children against whooping cough. Maybe it is a result of the whooping cough virus mutating as a result of vaccination, maybe it is a result of increased immigration or increased travel to areas where whooping cough is common, maybe, maybe, maybe... So far the connection between increasing rates of non-vaccination and the increase in diseases for which we have vaccines is all circumstantial evidence, which is exactly what the link between autism and vaccinations was based on.



I personally am not anti-vaccination, I am a conscientious objector who does not vaccinate her children as a result of an informed choice and I support others who make in formed choices to not vaccinate. It is not all about us, I do consider the wider community when I consider my options regarding vaccinations. I am fully aware of the risks in not vaccinating, I am fully aware of the risks in vaccinating, the risks for vaccinating were not worth it for my personal circumstances. I know that not many will support my choice (to be honest, the only people who I care about support from are my family and my doctor and other medical professionals I consult), but I made that choice responsibly and will continue to be responsible about it.

Charlie - posted on 06/25/2010

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This is what pisses me off about anti vaxers , its all about them and not one thought about the wider community ......

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