Why humans are herbivores.

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Are human beings anatomically more similar to natural carnivores or to natural herbivores? Let’s find out….

* Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
* Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
* Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
* Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
* Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
* Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
* Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.
http://www.tierversuchsgegner.org/wiki/i...

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~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Going straight vegan from a meat eating diet is very difficult. Most, not all, but MOST vegans are produced from already having a vegetarian lifestyle. Atleast all the successful vegans that I know.

Amanda - posted on 03/05/2011

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Marina Gallegos there are just as many doctors and scientists who say vegan and vegetarian diets are unhealthy.

Jenny - posted on 03/05/2011

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Amanda, the 100 Mile Diet was filmed in Mission, BC Canada. I live in Kelowna, BC so we have quite a few options for local(ish) sources.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Laura, knowing which healthy fish to eat is important. I will stand behind believing that eating fish is healthier than eating any source of meat.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

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based on anecdotal experience...I tried to be a vegetarian, and was too stupid and lazy to figure out how to eat properly...I doubt I'm alone.

Jenny - posted on 03/05/2011

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I wasn't forced to, I wanted try it. So I gave it a good go and I didn't like it. Now I eat meat.

Amanda - posted on 03/05/2011

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I like the concept of 100 mile diet, but unfor living in Canada means not very many veggie, fruit choices during the winter months. So I cant fully go by that diet, but spring, summer and fall we do try to do this.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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There are some of you in here that claim to eat proper meat portions for the recommended dosage...kudos to you. I would hope that you are also consuming lots of fruits and vegetables. I still stand behind a healthy vegetarian diet being healthier as a whole to a healthy meat eaters diet. All of you meat eaters, do you eat bacon, processed deli meats? Pork? Red meat? You can say all you want how healthy it is...there is plenty of scientists and doctors that disagree.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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WOW Jodi, talk about a blanket statement. So you know 2 or 3 vewgetarians that don't know how to eat properly. I know so many MORE meat eaters that eat poorly than vegetarians.

Jenny, if you were forced to be vegan, of course you hated it. If I was forced to eat meat I would hate that.

Vegetarians that hate vegetables is a fucking oxymoron...LOL...that cracks me up Bonnie...how ridiculous!

Laura, that is your perspective that may not be founded on truth or fact. I see what meat eaters are consuming regularly.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

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probably lives on french fries and toast with cheese...WAY healthier than my mostly seafood and salad with veggies ;)

that's our point about making blanket statements that a vegetarian diet is NECESSARILY healthier.

Bonnie - posted on 03/05/2011

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I just saw recently somewhere, I think it was on the show The Doctors, there was a woman who claims to be a vegetarian, but cannot stand fruits and vegetables lol.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

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yes, I sincerely doubt that the MAJORITY of vegetarians are eating what they should.

Jenny - posted on 03/05/2011

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I'm on the healthy omnivore bandwagon. I lived vegan for 3 months once when I was a line in nanny and hated it. Now I'm working towards eating locally and clean food. I don't own a microwave and rarely buy packaged food. The show 100 Mile Diet has been pretty inspiring.

Amanda - posted on 03/05/2011

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Humans need meat, most vegetarians are low in protin and iron because they do not eat correctly. Actually some of the most unhealthy people I know are so called "veggies" (2 out of 3 are OVER WEIGHT, and the other is EXTREMELY underweight). Amazingly I have never seen any of them actually eat anything healthy in their lives.



My family has meat nightly, we are not over weight (no where even near it), we eat lean beef, seafood, chicken, and all other four legged animals (rabbit goat, all wild game), (btw who ever said seafood is healthier then farm animals you need to research more, seafood is extremely high in mercury and toxins, and should only be ate at the MOST once a week). We eat plenty of veggies (more then any vegetarian I personally know).



Meat is NOT killing people, PROCESSED BOXED easy to make foods are killing people.

Jenn - posted on 03/05/2011

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Why does it keep being said that people are eating crappy food, so therefore meat is bad and evil? Nobody is arguing what the way many Americans eat is healthy. What we are saying, is that the recommended way to eat is healthy. The recommended way can include lean meat and dairy and eggs. And last time I checked, seafood IS meat.

Jodi - posted on 03/05/2011

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Because you have been saying how much healthier your vegetarian diet is. So of COURSE you are generalising, and I am saying that a vegetarian diet isn't NECESSARILY healthier just because it eliminates meat. A diet including meat can be healthy too. THAT is my argument.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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And also, I was LOOKING and OBSERVING due to this thread.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Jodi, Markets like that are not available around here...you would have to travel very far....big diff when all that is available is the grocery store.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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@ Jodi "But Marina, we are not talking about what the average person IS eating, we are talking about any diet containing meat. Yes, if people are always eating the crap you listed, meat IS killing them. But that isn't what is recommended, it never was"

Sure we are talking about the average person. How can we JUST talk about people that ONLY eat a recommended amount of chicken, and avoid red meat all together. People are consuming ridiculous amounts of meat...that is part of the point...we were not MEANT to eat like this. Like I said earlier...if we ate meat and used the bodies of animals like the native americans did, and didn't over consume and respected the land...I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Jodi - posted on 03/05/2011

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Well, I guess if you watched my shopping cart you'd see hardly any veggies either - I don't buy my vegetables at the supermarket. I purchase them separately at the fresh food market because they are cheaper and better quality. Now I realise people must look at my shopping cart and judge me for having very few fruit and veg....hmmmmm.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Lots of hamburger, and definately NOT lean meat...and yes I did see some lean looking chicken....our society is obese for a reason. Not everyone is cooking lean chicken, and cutting off the fat from there food, or avoiding bacon and other processed meats. It is the staple of the American diet.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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You are absolutely right Krista, I agree with you...I was talking about what the average person is eating. I love french fries...do I consider them part of my vegetables for the day? Hell no. But damn they are my favorite!

I went to the grocery store today, I actually was spying on peoples carts...(I had just been on this thread before I went) I was shocked with what people were plopping in there cart. Bacon, ALOT of bacon, hot dogs, and OMG the POUNDS of deli meat people had...with very sparing fruits and veggies...but lots of processed bagged food. This is the kind of staple diet I am refering to Krista.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Good point about the food pyramid Sal..the food pyramid for the proteins does not list soley meat...it also lists beans, eggs, nuts, beans...meat is a small part of that...which doesn't mean you need meat in your diet. Also, the protein that people are getting is about 50%more than what is recommended...supposedly you should get 40-70 grams per day...I get that just from my cheese, milk with my kashi cereal (which contains like 13 grams of protein per serving) yogurt, my veggies, and if I have a veggie meat product.

this is interesting
http://exercise.about.com/cs/nutrition/a...

Krista - posted on 03/05/2011

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if someone is consuming deli meat full of nitrates, hamburgers, hot dogs, steaks, ribs, chicken with the skin on a regular basis...can you really say that is healthy? Cause that is what the average American diet consists of..

Well, no. We can't lump all meat together in the same category, though. It would be like someone who lives solely off of French fries calling themselves vegetarian and claiming to be healthy.

It's just common sense that a baked breast from a free-range, locally farmed chicken is healthier than a fried no-name hotdog stuffed full of lips and arseholes.

We can't make blanket statements about how being a vegetarian is healthier than being an omnivore. Because there are many vegetarians out there who have not done their homework and whose diets are shit, and there are many omnivore health nuts out there whose diets contain appropriate amounts of lean, natural meat. A healthy diet is a healthy diet is a healthy diet. Whether or not that contains meat is solely up to the individual.

Jodi - posted on 03/05/2011

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But Marina, we are not talking about what the average person IS eating, we are talking about any diet containing meat. Yes, if people are always eating the crap you listed, meat IS killing them. But that isn't what is recommended, it never was.

Sal - posted on 03/05/2011

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i doubt that we were ment to eat only one thing as during seasons where there was little vegitation we would of starved, remember that we weren't settled to store stocks for winter so i think optunity was the key to our diet, i also think that any ill effects of our modern diet was/is from the over consumption of not only meat but sugar and fat, and this has little to do with the food itself but the way we choose to eat it, the old adage a little bit of everything in moderation has anyone seen the old food pyramid, if we all followed that i guess that would be kind of ideal, and i try this week we had 4 vego nights, and lst night we had a gooy yummy lamb shank and mash......and while we usually have 1-2 veg nigts a week i am going to up it, this week was good with 3 nights of cooking veg and 1 of left overs (cheap too) but having been veg before i doubt would go back, i was heading that way as meat was making me feel ill, but also thought i would help with a med problem, but it (the problem) was worse then than ever, i don;t think being infelxible and ridgid in our diet is the way the humans are designed, seasonal and optunistic is my mantra, free range meat and eggs when i can, i grow my own veg and herbs and love to find a wild blackberrry bush or mushroom patch to harvest...yumm yumm



ps after my lamb last night we had black berry crumbe made from the black berries out of the back paddock they are devine...

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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(I love big forearms...popeye come here with your bad ass..and BRING THE SPINACH! LOL)

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Krista, I cannot argue with that...you guys know your bodies better than I do...

But I will add to my previous thought...if someone is consuming deli meat full of nitrates, hamburgers, hot dogs, steaks, ribs, chicken with the skin on a regular basis...can you really say that is healthy? Cause that is what the average American diet consists of..

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Seafood is so much healthier than meat...can we all agree on that?

Krista - posted on 03/05/2011

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To follow up with what Jodi said, I do think that some people NEED meet, due to their own lifestyle and/or biological makeup.

My husband is a stonecutter (you should SEE the forearms on this man. Rrawwwr!) Anyway, his work is very physically demanding. There have been times when we've eaten meatless for several days on end, usually substituting with legumes or soy or eggs. And by day 3, he notices a major difference in his stamina at work. I know that this is in no way scientific and is purely anecdotal, but to me it does illustrate Jodi's point that some people do have more energy and health and stamina when their diets contain some animal protein.

As far as whether it would be easier to give up meat or fish...that's a tough call. I love both. If I based my decision solely on health considerations, I would probably keep the seafood and eschew the meat. But dammit, I just love meat. I love it. A juicy, tender roast. Barbecued chicken. Greek leg of lamb. A perfectly seared pork chop. And bacon...don't even get me started on bacon.

If we weren't meant to eat animals, then why are they so frigging TASTY?

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

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If I HAD to...I would give up the meat...I couldn't live without seafood. period. and I could happily eat it every day.

I would miss burgers and steaks though

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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I stated specifically that I am healthier without it. Do I think you could be healthier? Possibly...but I have NO idea what your refridgerator or pantry holds...what you eat daily, how much you excercise...how can you possibly say that you would NOT be healthier on a veg diet? Especially if you have not tried....and if you have tried...how much processed food was truly consumed? It is a tricky subject. When I first became vegetarian, I was NOT healthy...I had no idea what to eat or how to prepare food. Now I do.

Jodi - posted on 03/05/2011

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But Marina, my argument is that the vegetarian lifestyle isn't necessarily healthier at all!!! Someone who eats meat can be JUST as healthy. Because firstly, we can naturally eat meat as the OMNIVORES we are, and secondly, diet is only ONE part of our health. I have a real problem with someone claiming that being vegetarian is healthier. It is healthier for YOU.



Edited to add, I am referring to people who eat the appropriate recommended portions of meat, not the ones who eat the whole fucking cow.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Just out of curiosity, would it be easier for you to give up meat or seafood if you had to?

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

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there's no arguing with that. Fish is also really healthy, and I could NEVER give up seafood.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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My position on this thread the entire time has been to show the healthier lifestyle of being a vegetarian. I am not a vegan, I was for about 1 year out of my 17 as a vegetarian, and I got really sick. I am sure I was not eating healthy enough...certainly not to the extent that Julianne eats not. When I tried to start consuming dairy products again, it took me almost another year to be able to tolerate it. This to me does show some validity about how we maybe should not be consuming milk products. Will I stop again? Hells no, I love my cheese and yogurt way to much. Will I EVER eat meat again? I don't think I ever will...but I cannot say for 100% certain. I don't ever see myself willingly eating it. I feel that I am healthier without it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Laura, threads get shaped into different conversations all the time. That is a perfectly valid thing to say and admit to.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

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I agree we eat too much meat...that wasn't the assertion of this thread.

Krista - posted on 03/05/2011

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I think we probably eat too MUCH meat, yes. But as far as us being meant to be herbivores? I don't buy it.

Jodi - posted on 03/05/2011

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I'm still going with omnivore, and I am SICK of hearing about how meat is going to kill me. I don't care. If I only get to live as long as my meat eating anscestors (both living and dead), then I'm probably doing better than a lot of people, regardless of their diet. And if I'm wrong, then the vegans and vegetarians can watch us all die out and take over the planet.....then they can have grounds on which to argue that humans are herbivores.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

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Laura, I am betting they were not consuming the quantity or quality of meat humans are consuming today. I just found several studies supporting why we are herbavores, why we are omnivores etc. There is plenty of scentific studies out there to support either way.

Charlie - posted on 03/05/2011

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Look who evolved to become who we are today though the meat eating species of the humans who evovled directly at the point of changing to become an omnivore while the other species simply died out .

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

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BERKELEY-- Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods, according to a physical anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley.

It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain, said Katharine Milton, an authority on primate diet.

Without meat, said Milton, it's unlikely that proto humans could have secured enough energy and nutrition from the plants available in their African environment at that time to evolve into the active, sociable, intelligent creatures they became. Receding forests would have deprived them of the more nutritious leaves and fruits that forest-dwelling primates survive on, said Milton.

Her thesis complements the discovery last month by UC Berkeley professor Tim White and others that early human species were butchering and eating animal meat as long ago as 2.5 million years. Milton's article integrates dietary strategy with the evolution of human physiology to argue that meat eating was routine. It is published this month in the journal "Evolutionary Anthropology" (Vol.8, #1).

Minnie - posted on 03/05/2011

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It still appears that it is gluttony of animal proteins that is the issue here. Because a human eating the proper omnivore diet- which should be largely comprised of fruits, nuts and vegetables with a small amount of meat (from WHICHEVER critter it comes from) will get the proper amount of fiber.

Diverticulitis of the colon- which is what you guys are discribing- where pockets form in the intestine and trap food- comes from a diet of not enough fiber. It does NOT come from a diet that is mostly plant food with a small amount of animal food.

Bonnie - posted on 03/05/2011

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I had no idea baby carrots are soaked in bleach. I wondered why they appeared to be fairly white after awhile. I figured it was because the carrots were going bad. Why are they soaked in bleach?

Iridescent - posted on 03/05/2011

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Julianne, back to this point again since you pointedly choose to ignore your statement and my reply.
You stated only carnivores and omnivores can eat meat, because only they have a small bowel.
Humans have a small bowel.
So humans are either carnivores or omnivores.

Jenn - posted on 03/05/2011

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"People who eat meat usually lack fiber and have backed up bowels unless they take a fiber supplement."



That's quite the assumption there, isn't it? Just because someone eats meat, does not suddenly mean that they don't also eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables and whole grains. I shit quite regularly thank you, and I eat meat once a day at supper - and it's an actual serving size - so it would be about 10% of my diet - like it SHOULD be. Just because some people are gluttonous and eat a cow for supper, doesn't mean that all meat eaters are like that, or that any of us are saying that's how much meat we should consume. Our diet should be a healthy balance, which includes a small amount of lean meat, eggs, or other protein source like beans, tofu, etc. We ARE omnivores. We have not evolved into them, it's what we are - always have been. And just for the record - my gassiest, stinkiest moments are when I've had too much oats - whether it's oatmeal, granola, or some sort of cookie with oats.

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