Why humans are herbivores.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

so, how far back are we going with humans before we find a vegan??? I'm betting NONE of them were, since they all had pointy teeth and their nearest relative is the chimp, which is ALSO an omnivore.

Which means you would have to go back further than anything remotely "human" to find a vegan ancestor.

That's my point...you can go back all the way to the beginning if you want...start making food from the sun...it becomes kind of irrelevant when you look at the fact that we have been evolving a LONG time since our ancestors found out about eggs and meat.

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

ugh....when we were a single celled organism we were not classified as a human now were we?

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

since I believe the original model is a single celled organism...you'll forgive me if I don't start making my own food from the power of the sun

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

as in opportunistic omnivores

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

The original design was herbivore though. Humans are adapting to eating meat but are bodies are not there yet.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

which is an omnivore

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

baby carrots are also soaked in bleach, thats why they get a white film on them.

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

If a species adapts to a different lifestyle than it should be a slow process, meat should only be about 5-10% of the human diet if any, not a staple in the diet. High levels of protein are not digestible by humans the way our systems are being bombarded.

Cathy - posted on 03/05/2011

Laura it is ok ... but if you're disturbed by bleach on an eggshell, you should be much more disturbed by your lettuce coated in it!

Cathy - posted on 03/05/2011

I eat meat, normally only, once a day. That's with my one meal a day. The rest of the day I snack as and when I feel hungry.

I crap a couple times a day. I only have stinky farts if I've consumed too much pasta... oh and brussel sprouts!

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

@laura, i am not disrespecting your choice. why not go back to page one where i said if you eat meat grass fed animals are better for your body than the obese animals you get at the supermarket and that fish is great for omega fats. Or read the whole article i posted that said humans became opportunistic omnivores because of a need to survive, not because it was our original diet, but our bodies didnt fully adapt/evolve yet. You and others turned it into a "my diet is better than yours" argument.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

I thought we just learned that was ok?

Cathy - posted on 03/05/2011

Sharon, I never would have thought it was safe to wash food with bleach...see learned something new ;)

Don't buy those pre cut and packed salads, they get washed in bleach!

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

that's not eating enough fiber...and due to our "white" lifestyle...too much white flour, white sugar, blah blah blah...nothing to do with consuming meat.

I don't get backed up because at least half my plate is veggies and salad.

we have pointy teeth and a small colon because our bodies are designed to be omnivores...if you WANT to be a vegan, I totally respect your choice...yes it is entirely POSSIBLE to do so. It's not for everybody though, and it was never meant to be.

We are not disrespecting your choice...you are disrespecting ours.

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

If your bowel is backed up, you get stinky because its not moving through your body at the proper rate so the food rots in your bowel. Its not the substance itself that creates the stink, but the constapation, which meat creates.

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

You did not answer my question. You changed the subject.
People who eat meat usually lack fiber and have backed up bowels unless they take a fiber supplement.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

up to 72 hours at the slowest is the rate I heard. And I debunked your "meat makes stinkier gas" argument yesterday...the stinkiness of gas is determined by the sulfur level in the food...not the time it takes to digest.

and I know in my own personal life that it's true, because beer and cauliflower have WAY more power to empty a room in my house than a steak.

Julianne - posted on 03/05/2011

That is not a myth, if people eat a lot of meat, its low in fiber. Fiber is what moves the food through your bowel. Fiber needs to be present in everything you eat or you get backed up. People should have a bowel movement for every meal. Do you? I know i do.

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

yup...pointy teeth and a small colon's all the proof I need...and the fact that meat getting stuck and rotting in your colon is a myth and used as propaganda to sell cleanses.

Rebecca - posted on 03/05/2011

"This pattern seems to echo with young (as in only one decade or less in to a meat free lifestyle) vegans. Everything is ALL about being a vegan. There is no other cause, no other books, no other movies, no other way...to the point that bloggers are getting death threats from people who claim to never, ever eat a living creature (but they'll shot a person?).

Being vegan is just what you eat. It is about as apt to me as who you fuck. It does not make you better, smarter or anything.

So, if that's the case, if it doesn't seem to be good for some people's bodies. If they don't thrive without a small serving of heme protein each day - who cares?"

Where did I say in the above paragraphs that if you haven't been a vegan long enough you don't have a leg to stand on? I'm pretty sure I was saying that when you first become a vegan it can be all encompasing and often so consuming it is hard to see it as just a way to eat. I'm pretty sure I was just pointing out that every body is different and that if people would take one of the principals that many alternative, vegan health people advocate of "listening to your body" that you might find that being a vegan MAY not work for you.

I hear you, you do not think you are better or more evolved that anyone else because you are a vegan...that's what you're saying, you're just "defending what I feel is right in here.". All I think I was trying to get across is that it is completely valid to do that and not come up with the vegan answer. As well, if being a vegan is not the answer for you, it does not mean you are raping the natural world or are less a a conscience consumer when you eat local, grass feed, ethically treated animals. In fact, there is a lot of research (I know there is some on the other side as well) that would say that this is a very viable way to sustain the world as a whole.

It's fine to defend your "lifestyle" as you put it. I'm just saying, I don't think of it now as a lifestyle, now that I'm eating a bit of chicken and bacon, it's just what I eat. Just like me being an actor does not define me as a person - it's just what I do. Or me having the inclination to have sex with both sexes - it just means I've got more options ;) no really it's just my sexual preference.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

http://www.everydayhealth.com/blog/zimne...

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

NOT all research proves otherwise. I have posted research that proves cooking meat contains carcinogens, there is proof that meat stays in your system, there is so much more proof that meat is NOT a healthy way to go. You chose to look at only what you see as beneficial research...NOT ALL RESEARCH Laura...

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

it's not perspective...it's fact. Her assertion was not that it was healthier for HER to be a vegan, her assertion was that HUMANS were designed to be vegans...ALL research proves otherwise.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

Your perspective is that it is faulty logic. Not hers, and not many followers of the vegan lifestyle. It is not in the choices that you make, therefore it automatically makes it faulty?

Isobel - posted on 03/05/2011

Her belief was that WE should be vegetarians...if not, it would've been a pretty boring debate.

Of course we disagree...it was based on faulty logic.

Sharon - posted on 03/05/2011

i learned it in Turkei - and on chicken forums. Due to some gastro stuff the turks tend to pass on - EVERYTHING is recommended to be washed in a bleach water solution, IF I recall properly - even broccoli was recommended to swished through bleach water, rinsed WELL before cooking and especially before eating raw. My mom even washed melons because the knife passed through the rind then through the flesh dragging all the surface crap with it. We still got the turkish welcome flu.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

Sharon, I never would have thought it was safe to wash food with bleach...see learned something new ;)

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

I am trying to teach what I have learned....it may not be the right choice for you...but how about the next person that may want to stop eating meat and does not know how to go about doing it?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

It sure does sound like you NEED to define your life by where you can eat, what you can and cannot...much like a vegetarian or vegan. You need to be as dilligent with what you put into your body due to health reasons, as we do for purposes of what we feel is good for us.

You made it completely sound like if you have not been a vegetarian or vegan long enough, you really have no ground to stand on. Yes, some people are more gung ho about there beliefs, and will push them on you to the point of craziness.....not me honey. I am just defending what I feel is right in here. I am defensive becouse of what has been said...I am defending my way of life.

Sharon - posted on 03/05/2011

ugh soap to water ratio - NOT soap to egg.

Sharon - posted on 03/05/2011

Bleach is all purpose, cheap and rinses clean with very little effort. Soap - on the other hand - can be a pain to wash off. Being sure I've got enough antibacterial soap to egg ratio is kind of a pain. But 1 TBS of bleach to gallon of water is perfect.

Cross contamination can come from a LOT of things. Like having your cat litter box to close to you kitchen and shit like that (lmao at the shit & cat box reference)

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

I did read it Rebecca..oops I fucked up the sex of the person....so shoot me.

Sharon - posted on 03/05/2011

oh man - pulling the flesh over the tunnel of the tendon is COOL!

I was NOT denigrating her beliefs. She claims to have these facts and yet they're for sale facts. Bits out of a book purchased by a man whose 'science' has been debunked etc.

Cathy - posted on 03/05/2011

But if we weren't omnivores then eating animal products would probably make us all very sick all the time. We'd quickly stop if that were the case.

Good for you for evolving past that. I haven't ... I'll just blame my blood group ... O need meat!

Rebecca - posted on 03/05/2011

Sounds like I touched a nerve. Oh, and it wasn't a guy who turned to meat after a health scare, it was a woman. Oh, course, if you had actually went and read the article to get the context of the post - you would have known that.

As far as attacking JM for being vegan or anyone...that's just you being defensive. You're right though, there are still people after twenty years of being vegan who see it as more than just what they eat. Everything they do is still filtered through a vegan eye. I'm just saying that the majority seem to relax into it just being one aspect of their lives...just like who they fuck etc. Yeah, you make sacrifices for being vegan, about the same amount of sacrifices I have to make for having allergies to dairy, gluten and sugar. Still my allergies do not define everything I am and I known exactly where I can eat, what I can eat and at what restaurant....cause I've been doing it for a super long time. I don't go places I know are iffy and subject some poor waiter to a diatribe on why these things are terrible for all people's diets (not saying you do, it's just something I'm not cool with).

The only thing I ever advocated in any of these posts was to find out what is best for you individual body and roll with it. If this is eating like an omnivore, like a vegan or other do it - but it doesn't make you a better person or a more diligent consumer even. If there has been any attacking going on, it's been with JM saying that certain foods will kill everyone or give everyone diseases. Each body is different, it's just one of our jobs as it's owner to figure out which fuel works best.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

Sharon "
And I find it sad that simply your diet consumes so much of your life. Instead of simply enjoying what is in front of you - it becomes a research project fraught with peril. People with extreme allergies suffer this too and I feel badly for them. "

Don't feel badly for me, I enjoy making my fresh vegetable dishes, and I enjoy all my fruits. It is a lifestyle choice. It is like me saying that I feel bad that you hunt becouse you have to deal with a dead animal, and everything that goes along preparing it. Or that when you eat meat, you are biting into the muscle of an animal...feeling the nasty veins and tendons in your mouth *gag*. I don't feel bad. That is your choice. To me, it is gross.

The smell of ground beef makes me want to barf.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

No one was knocking Julianne for be a VEGAN, but they sure were tearing down her beliefs pretty substantially. You may believe eating raw eggs, raw chicken, raw red meat...or any of that cooked for that matter...you may also believe it is good for you. You may believe that we are omnivores....I don't...I think we have evolved way past that. Our systems are not made to eat cows, pigs, chicken....Julianne and I were both giving information to back our beliefs up.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

If you crack an egg and some of the shell touches the inside...bam...you can get salmonella you use it raw.

I have never washed anything that I consume in watered bleach...but since you do not consume shells, I suppose it is a way to do it. Why not use anti-bacterial soap?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

Toxoplasmososis is also readily found on lettuce etc...I was being funny about being a "dirty vegetarian" refering to not washing my vegetables etc.

Recently crops have been coming up with salmonella...due to dirty circumstances....not natural to the vegetables...who knows it could have been intentional.

Yes Sharon, you are right about the eggs, I learned that when I was starting to give my young ones eggs. But also raw chicken has it also, and if you do not cook chicken properly or cross contaminate, you can get very sick.

Iridescent - posted on 03/05/2011

Hepatitis A is also mainly from plants...thanks to uncleanliness of people working in the fields/orchards.

Sharon - posted on 03/05/2011

Oh and veggies not having salmonella - um yes they do.

It comes from the soil. Hell leafy veggies treated with fertilizer have been tainted with salmonella, ecoli etc.

WASH it. Cook it properly. don't take a shit and not wash your hands with hot water & soap before touching your food.

Sharon - posted on 03/05/2011

As a chicken rancher - salmonella comes from the shell of the egg not the insides unless there is a crack in the shell and the membrane has become permeable to allow bacterial growth.

I frequently eat raw eggs. always have, my mom does, my grandparents did (lived to their 80s) my aunts & uncles do, my cousins do and NOT a single one has ever so much as been hospitalised for gastro distress. why? Because we wash all our eggs in a mild bleach water. anything with bubbles is discarded and all eggs are scrubbed & dried before being consumed, raw or cooked.

And I agree with everyone else.

NO ONE was knocking Julianne for BEING a vegetarian.

EVERYONE was arguing that humans are MEANT to be herbivores. We are NOT meant to herbivores. Can we live that way? Maybe some of us can. 20 years of research on your physical being is not proof positive that its the best for everyone.

And I find it sad that simply your diet consumes so much of your life. Instead of simply enjoying what is in front of you - it becomes a research project fraught with peril. People with extreme allergies suffer this too and I feel badly for them.

Cathy - posted on 03/05/2011

@ Marina - Not Rocky ... I just happen to like mayonnaise (fresh), homemade cheesecake, homemade icecream. I also make a great cake called a jigsaw roll, chocolate and marshmallow yumminess, but it needs a raw egg to bind it.

And I like my egg yokes runny not all dry and powdery.

I've yet to experience food poisoning in my 30 years on the planet.

Jenn - posted on 03/05/2011

Exactly. Just to further clarify: anyone can have a poor diet - vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, carnivore - it's all in the choices you make and it's all about balance. Let's perhaps reword things a bit so it becomes more clear. Instead of referring to plant matter and animal matter, how about what food really is. We need a certain proportion of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, to be healthy - it doesn't matter where those sources comes from (meat, or plant). All foods are made up of any combination of those 3 components: protein, carbohydrate, and fat.

Jodi - posted on 03/05/2011

"Neither one makes you a better person."

Or necessarily healthier.

Jenn - posted on 03/05/2011

I don't think anyone was attacking Julianne's (or any other vegetarian/vegan) diet - they were attacking her belief that we are herbivores - because we are not. Yes, it is true that people can live a healthy life with or without meat - we are amazing creatures. If anyone chooses to be a vegan or vegetarian - go for it. If anyone chooses to eat meat and/or animal by-products - go for it. Neither one makes you a better person.

Jodi - posted on 03/05/2011

I also can't see anyone criticising Julianne for her lifestyle, just debating her view that we are herbivores.....if she want's to live like a herbivore, that's fine, I couldn't care less, but it isn't the way we were necessarily made to live.

Jodi - posted on 03/05/2011

I'm confused....who called anyone a *dirty vegetarian*? Marina, no-one is criticising your chosen lifestyle. Just making the point that it isn't the only healthy lifestyle, and that humans are omnivores (ie. made to eat both meat AND vegetables), not herbivores.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/05/2011

I agree...the further we get from nature...the futher our food gets from natural.

Minnie - posted on 03/05/2011

Just because we have more technology than traditional cultures does not mean we have a healthier diet. Third world country is a cultural term. It's not a biological one.



I'm not saying anyone should have to scoop up critters to eat, just that that is what other primates do and since we are primates that's what our ancestors did.