working vs stay-at-home moms

Good Day! - posted on 03/05/2010

Hmmm...good question Kelly! When I keep older kids at church, I ask if they can "beat me". What I mean is that I will count to 10 while they scramble around trying to pick up all the toys before I get to 10. Maybe you could see if he can wipe down all the counters in a specified amount of time. Or when you're cooking he has to stir the pot. You can tell him how important it is (even if stirring that pot really isn't important). And then when eating supper be sure make a big deal out of how good the dish he stirred tastes. When doing laundry, you could make a game of sorting the clothes by colors. Let him catch you making mistakes with that. Put a white with the reds and see if he notices, and when he does, make a HUGE deal out of it. "You are so smart! I can't believe how silly mommy is!"

I also don't think that you have to spend every waking moment with him. It's okay if he wants to be in his room by himself. It's part of growing up.

By the way, I've seen some of your other posts and I think you are a wonderful mom! You are always full of encouragement and sound advice.

Kelly - posted on 03/05/2010

Sara, that's awesome that your little one likes to be a part of your chores.my son is 5 yrs and I struggle to find ways to keep him engaged with me during mine, so he usually ends up playing in the living room while I clean the kitchen, and retreating to his room for a few minutes while I vacuum b/c he doesn't like the noise (basically the same as if I was working). He is not free from responsibility, he has his own little chores (pick up toys, feed dog, etc.) but we really don't interact much while I do mine--the only one I get him to "help" with is folding/putting away clean laundry.
That's why I feel like I don't really get much more time with him now that I stay home. Got any suggestions for an older kid? You seem pretty creative :)

Good Day! - posted on 03/05/2010

Oh I didn't mean to sound like it is all sunshine and roses all the time! Just today I was getting aggravated with my daughter constantly wanting to watch Elmo! And there are some days that I would love to be back in the classroom with my students or even go back to college myself. But on the whole I think that your attitude has a lot to do with your happiness. And I am very happy with my position as a SAHM. Will I be at home forever? Probably not. I'm already planning to get a reading coach certification and getting a job once all my kids are in elementary school full time.

Krista - posted on 03/05/2010

Sara, you make a good point. Some people really WOULD rather complain than do anything to change their situation. And yes, there are some working moms who say that they want to be SAHMs, and their situation is such that they could probably cut back on some things and at least go part time, but it's just easier to bellyache.

But, we also have to look at the fact that part of being a mother means being emotionally torn. I enjoy working, and don't think that I'd be a very good SAHM, but when I go back to work, I'm likely going to bawl my eyes out for a few days, missing my baby. And some SAHMs are very content doing what they do, but they probably have moments when they think, "If I have to hear the Wiggles one more time I'm going to stab myself in the eye."

Nothing about being a mom is simple. Ever.

Good Day! - posted on 03/05/2010

@Tah, Yeah I would go stir crazy if I didn't get out every once in a while!

I think that anyone can make any situation good or bad depending on their attitude and willingness to make it work. The SAHM's you've talked to that said they miss adult interaction would probably complain just as much about how they miss their kids if they had a job. You just have to be willing to work with the situation you are in.

@Joy, the above comment is not directed at you. You obviously know what makes you happy and I'm glad you are trying to achieve your goal of teaching at a university. I just think some people wouldn't be happy no matter what.

Tah - posted on 03/05/2010

@sara, just wondering i have heard that before from some sahm so just wanted to know, but you stay pretty busy...

Krista - posted on 03/05/2010

Oh lord, Sara thinks that we're actually ADULTS here. You poor, poor deluded woman. ; )

Good Day! - posted on 03/05/2010

Tah, I interact with my husband everyday. My daughter and I go to children's storytime at our library and Music Together classes every week. I've made friends with the other moms. And I also go to church 3x a week and love being in the adult classes while my daughter stays in the nursery. I used to go to the gym 3-4x a week but we recently cut that out of the budget. That was another source of adult interaction. Plus I have family nearby. My mom drops in several times a week as does my sister. And I also enjoy COM as a way to talk to adults. I'm happy. I understand that it's not for everyone, but it works for me.

JL - posted on 03/05/2010

When I worked I chose to work. We did not need the money to survive, but I went to school and got an education for a career I really wanted. I love teaching college history and it is part of who I am as a person. When I wasn't working I was going to school full time. The end of last year became the first year where I was completely a SAHM..no work or school. Honestly I am ready to go back to work or school. I have kept myself busy with volunteering, hanging out with freinds, playdates, after school activities and such but I am lost and have discovered that being a SAHM is not what I was made to do. I need adult interaction with professionals working in the same area as me. Being a professional historian and professor is part of who I am and I need to fill that part of me in order to feel complete. RIght now I am in a in between stage because my husband is in the Army and we know we are PCSing in October and the colleges and universities are firing not hiring so job aspects right now are not good, but I am preparing to go back to school to finish my PH.D. I am also going to look into opprotunties to go back to work when we move once we find out where we are going next. We have choices..men and women for a reason, because some of us are just not cut out to do the SAHM thing and some of us are GREAT moms but staying home just doesn't make us feel complete.

Tah - posted on 03/05/2010

@sara..do you find sometimes you miss adult interaction?..

Good Day! - posted on 03/04/2010

I don't know about house work distracting from spending quality time with my daughter. When loading/unloading the dishwasher she is right beside me and we talk about, "this is a spoon, this is a green plate, etc. Same with laundry. She stands at the dryer and I hand her the clothes to put in. We talk about the colors and how they are wet, etc. She comes with me to the store (don't have any other option) and people probably think I'm crazy because we "talk" about the different food the whole time. She even helps me cook. She stands on a chair by the counter and likes to put things in the pot and stir. I save all consuming chores like vacuuming for nap time. Of course we do spend time stacking blocks and playing with baby dolls, but I don't feel like every second I'm with her has to be a "child" activity for it to be quality enjoyable time for both of us.

Johnny - posted on 03/04/2010

That completely makes sense Kelly. Sometimes my husband stays home to look after our daughter when my parents are traveling and I am at work. On a good day (which doesn't happen as much as I'd like) I come home to find that the laundry has been done, the groceries picked up, dinner prepared and the house is relatively tidy. I can just sit down and play with my daughter, and not worry about anything else. On the days when I am home, I 'm constantly thinking of ways to keep her distracted so I can get the beds made, or lunch ready, or her spill cleaned up. And when I come home from work most days, and no one has been home, it's even worse, because I haven't seen her all day and still have to do all the regular chores so I stay up until 1am so I don't have to give up time with her. Having a housekeeper would make a huge difference in the amount of quality time I spend with my daughter. Perhaps that's what I'll ask for Christmas, just once a month would really help.

Tah - posted on 03/04/2010

perfect sense..if i stayed home yes one child would be home but it would be 5 people worth of laundry, dishes, cleaning 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms sweeping 3 balcomies and walking and feeding majesty(of course he's the dog)..prepping and cooking dinner, errands and having to engage, stimulate, teach and entertain him...i work less with 12-25 patients and i at least i can clock out at the end of the day...

Kelly - posted on 03/04/2010

I agree with Esther and Loureen, we have the right to CHOOSE to work. I am a SAHM now, but for 2 of my son's first 5 years I CHOSE to work--Just because I wanted to. I was a horrible SAHM--I was short tempered, I didn't know how to keep my house, I couldn't stay on a schedule, I didn't know any other Mommy friends so my child wasn't really socialized. Plainly put--I SUCKED at it.
I hired a very good Nanny and housekeeper and I got a job working, dare I say it, nearly full time. Immediately, the quality of the time I spent with my little boy skyrocketed. I cherished every moment. I played with him, sang to him, focused on nothing but him when I was home. For 8 hours of my day, I did nothing but "mommy" him.
Eventually, for several reasons, I decided to try SAHMing again.
To make it work financially was difficult; I had to let both the housekeeper and the nanny go (but I knew I needed help, so I got them to teach me their jobs before they left), which meant I was now responsible for cleaning my home and cooking our meals, in addition to my "mommy duties". It would seem that I would be able to clean up and cook in less than 8 hours a day and thus have tons more time with my son, but for some reason, that is NOT the case. I actually think I had more time with him when I worked! But I do love staying home, and I'm getting better at it which is slowly but surely increasing the amount of time I have with the little guy :) I'm talking about that focused "nothing but mommying" time. I mean, I'm with him all day, but I don't count the time unless I'm actually engaged with him--after all, doing dishes while he plays in another room is really no different than working in an office while he plays at a daycare.

That turned into a rant, hope it makes sense.

Good Day! - posted on 03/04/2010

The ONLY problem I have with working mothers is when they drive a brand new $40,000 SUV, wear designer clothes, and always have the latest gadget and then complain and whine about how they wish they could afford to stay at home. It's give and take. You can work and have all those things, or you can live more simply and be a home with your kids. This statement does not apply to women who WANT to be at work and have these things. This statement also does not apply to women who HAVE to work in order for their kids to eat or have a roof over their heads.

I consider myself very lucky to be a SAHM. We live very simply and don't have a lot of extras because of it. BUT we do own our home, we own our cars, have no debt (other than school loans and our house) and we are able to put enough into savings each month. My husband makes enough so that we are not financially stressed. Because of that, I don't see a need to work and I love being at home with Eliza. If it ever came to the point where we couldn't eat or pay our bills on one income, I would find a teaching job (or any job for that matter) in a heartbeat.

JL - posted on 03/04/2010

I have been both...the SAHM and the working mom. All moms should be supporting one another and demanding more family freindly laws and environments. Even if you don't work you may at some point need to depend upon child care and most of us send our children off into the public school system so we should all as moms be supporting one another and fighting for affordable quality child care, higher standards for our schools systems, and equal pay. THe whole fight is stupid and just distracts us from the issues we need to band together and focus on.

Tah - posted on 03/04/2010

exactly..when i drop him off his friends actually fight over him....RYLAN...thats my friend ...no my friend and stand there while i take his coat off and walk him to the sink to wash his hands and i think that is good for him...he gets to do things on his own and he is so proud when he does it...i have no regrets...

Sara - posted on 03/04/2010

I really hate the argument that if you work, you're letting someone else raise your child. Uh...no. Last time I checked, I am the one that chose her daycare provider, I am the one who makes all major decisions for her and I'm the one she calls mommy and hugs and kisses every day. I honestly do not care if moms stay at home or not, I say if you can, more power to you! But, if you can't afford to or you just plain don't want to, then there's nothing wrong with that either. I, most of the time, enjoy my job. I'm good at it. I'm good at being a mommy too, but I can be honest with myself and say that I'm not so sure i'd make a good SAHM. To each their own.



I also want to add, my daughter loves daycare. She loves the other kids and the activities, and that makes me happy. I'm a big enough person to allow my daughter to have her own experiences and adventures and it doesn't make me jealous or make me feel guilty. In fact, this morning when I dropped her off, a couple of the other toddler's lit up and said "Ro!" and they rushed towards eachother with arms open. I think that's awesome. She's 17 months and she has friends that she has made on her own, that makes me really proud.

Tah - posted on 03/04/2010

Thank you Irene...i have given such short answers here because i argued my case until i needed pepto bismol for my nausea on the welcome page..I think if you stay at home that is your choice. I also believe in a plan B..like you, you have your degree and are continuing on, great..so if anything..God forbid ever happened, you could provide. But i never told any sahm, you need to go get a job outside the home, for this or that reason.



I have been raising my children since 16, yes..i got pregnant the first time i had sex and i chose to have my son, i also went to work, finished school and have put my self through schools and programs since, i moved out at 18 and thankfully never had to move back in with my parents because, no matter what i had to do.. i made it work,



I am married now with 3 children and i love my children without doubt, so i work for there now and their future, my husband is military and yes i could stay home, but trust me, in the military it doesn't pay like what they offered him outside, but he had just reenlisted..isn't that ironic...lol...So i work because i don't want us to struggle, the second income helps greatly, if i worked fulltime i could make more than him, but that isn't what we need. I supplement and put away for college and retirement. It also covers small bills and family trips so we don't deplete the savings, It allows us to have dang it moments, like dang it, the truck won't start...lol...we can get the truck fixed and the kids don't have to eat salt sandwiches because of it and all the other darn it moments, like o you broke your glasses again...and we already used the warranty the last time...and darn it, your just giving me this trip slip the day before the money is due...lol



It helps me feel like i'm contributing and my husband doesn't have to work security after he gets off a 12 hour shift like he did when we were friends and he was in a relationship with a TAKER...she took the money spent it on everything but what it was meant for, killed his credit and almost him..til i decided he needed to be saved..lol...which is also a reason i work, i have been repairing his credit..well ours now and we qualified for a home loan, but just don't know if we want to buy a house here get stationed somewhere else and wait. I loved being able to do that for the family also.



So when people tell me that my child is being raised by a daycare when they let them color read and nap, it offends me, they learn our values, culture and eveything else we hold dear from us, they take trips with us, we are at recitals and on trips, selling cookies and whatever else the school and girl scouts send back, we are building snowmen and tossing the ball around, carpooling and teaching them how to be independent and and productive members of society, not mrs. jones from the daycare.



My children aren't any less loved then sahm's and i am happy someone sees what i have been saying...

Irene - posted on 03/04/2010

Well, here' my story...

I got pregnant after I quit a "hateful" job earning "good" money because they wouldn't work with me going back to college. I had planned to go back to work when my daughter was 6 months old, but we could afford for me to stay home so instead we decided I should finish school.

I graduated college last August and since then I have been looking for a job, but have not found one yet. So I am now in grad school part-time. I stay home with my daughter because I have no job. She will be 3 next month and loves going to daycare (she went a few days per week while I was in school) and asks to go.

As you can see I never planned to be a SAHM. But it has worked for us. Now I am trying to start a new career and am very much looking forward to being a working mom. My thoughts are these: my child doesn't need me to be with her 24/7. She the ability to be around other children learning new things and taking part is various activities. Daycare providers care for your child, but they don't love them they way a parent would so it cannot be compare to having someone else "raise" your child. They don't instill values, they don't teach morality. They teach them their ABCs and how to share. It's very different.

So, to anyone who says that women should stay home and take care of their children, stuff it. Your way isn't the right way. It's the way that works for you and your family. Now let me do what works for me and my family.

Susanne - posted on 03/04/2010

Im lucky ive been able to stay at home to look after my sons while my husband works but not all mothers can do that. Bills need to be paid and if you cant do that on one wage what choice is there. Whats selfish about wanting to provide for your kids?



Only thing thats ever pissed me off about working mothers is that SOME of them send their kids back to school to soon after they've been ill. My son caught chickenpox from another child because he was sent back to school earlier than he shouldve been because she couldnt get anymore time off work. I understood the dilemma but it really annoyed me that my son had to suffer because of her.

Lisamarie - posted on 03/04/2010

I am a stay at home mum with 2 children and my husband works full time. My home and my children are always cleaned and well cared for. I love spending time with them and couldn't imagine going to work and leaving them. I have no problems with working mums, both my parents worked and I looked after the house and the younger children. I am doing home learning courses so I can set up a business from home to earn some extra cash.
I appreciate that some mums don't want to stay at home and need to work and each to their own is all I say. I do think if you want to stay at home, there are ways, it isn't impossible. My husband does not earn a lot of money but our children have everything they want and need and a parent at home. My hubby also only works until 4pm so he does get to see his children. :)

Tah - posted on 03/04/2010

i also wonder what about the childs future.i work and go to school. i am able to choose my own hours so school is 3 days a week and i pick up my hours of work around that. why do i do that...because in 5 years...i will have a son in college and i want to be able to afford that...5 years after that..my daughter...then 1 more time. i want to be able to afford to feed and cloth them now, and later. i tried staying at home. it wasn't for me. my 3 year old is in daycare, but noone raises him but us. the sahms who keep calling us selfish and what not..i could say the same. i mean some say o my husband works 2 jobs or doubles, where is the childs interaction with daddy. I see sahm who dont doa thing also, house a mess, she's a mess and the baby looks a mess. i see it all the time, not some but all. I do what i do for my children, for now and for their future. If it was just me and my husband, we would be more than ok on what we make, but the buck doesn't stop there. we do what we have to do...and some times that means making the hard decisions....

Jess - posted on 03/03/2010

I saw that episode, it recently played in Australia (we are very behind with Dr Phil here) And I was outtraged at the SAHM representative. I believe her name was Jessica. She actually suggested that working mamma's are paying people to love their babies. Argh!!! I wanted to shake some sense into that women and knock her off her high horse !!! Im really pleased that her husband earns enough money for her to stay at home.... mine doesn't ! Im going back to work next week because we can't afford for me to stay home any longer and still pay our bills.. No point in being a stay at home mum if you have no home !!! I refuse to ask my partner to take a second job. He has the right to be at home with us and enjoy his weekends and evenings playing with our daughter. I am able to work, I have a good paying job to return to. Im going to be a dedicated working mum 3 days a week and satisfied stay at home mum for the remaining 4 days. We have a good day care centre. No maids for me, not mani/pedi's ! I haven't even had my hair cut in nearly a year and thats not likely to change anytime soon !

Tah - posted on 03/02/2010

please..i am in the middle of this debate on the welcome page right now..i work...i mean some sahms are telling us that others are raising our kids and WE NEED to fire our maids, cancel our mani/pedis, grow our own gardens and stay home...i think steam actually poured from my ears....that was pretty high and mighty of them and trust me, i said as much...and more.....then some more....so yes this debate is serious and ongoing

Patricia - posted on 03/01/2010

Seriously, if you have to put your child in daycare, you have to do what you have to do...it's better than giving them up. However, I believe that if you can, a mother should stay home and raise their children...I would hate to hear from the sitter.."Johnny said his first word today." I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this...I believe it's a choice parents make..

Veronica - posted on 11/06/2009

The only reason why this is a debate is because it comes down to the kids. You hear our grandmothers, and old bitty aunties crab about - 'back in my day we never..." Ok -- a lot of it what they feel is the blame for why kids are they way they are.

My opinion is - it doesnt matter if you work, or stay home, or work at home - its how you nurture, care for, teach, and discipline your children. Your examples, words, and actions are what create the people of tomorrow - NOT whether you worked out or in, or stayed home!

That is why there is an ongoing issue - they are trying to use it as a blame/excuse.

Bottom line - be the mom you are meant to be - and fuck the rest! You are the one raising your children - not society. If you need help - get it. If you are doing great - wonderful! If you are asked for help - give it. Otherwise, mind your own business - get back to your kids - because arguing about it teaches your kids how to argue too! And then you are being neglectful because you are on here instead of taking care of them - right?! hahahahaha
ok enough - this is a pointless argument/debate, etc.

Sapphire - posted on 11/06/2009

I don't think it's anyone's flippin' business whether you are a SAHM, working mom, work from home mom, or chose to place your child in a daycare setting even if you are a SAHM. Why make it your business? Butt out!

I love teaching. I taught part-time for a few years so I could be home with my son from 18 months up to 4 years. I used in-home child care and day care centers. Now I am back and full-time and my son is thriving in pre-school. And yes, even over the summer when I was off of work I SENT HIM TO DAYCARE! Go ahead, tell me I am a crappy mom and roll your eyes cause I am pushing my son away-oh, to a learning environment. My son needs consistency and routine. He needs socilaization with his friends. He needs playtime with his peers. So yes, for 2 days a week over the summer, he goes to daycare. I spend a great deal of time homeschooling over the summer as well, but it's just the 2 of us. He needs a break from me just as I need a break from him. It's what works best in our family. So I could care less about other opinions.

Isobel - posted on 11/04/2009

I personally feel that a happy mother makes a happy child. If you get personal satisfaction from your career, then it likely makes you a better mother than you would be if you stayed home and felt incomplete.

I don't think that we're really talking about workaholics here (though I know they are out there). I think we're talking about women who go to work, either for satisfaction or for the money it brings in and STILL love and take care of their children, and whether or not they can be "as good" as a stay-at-home mom.

I was raised by a single mother and spent more than 8 hrs a day at daycare/school. While of course I missed her, I never had any question who was my mom...we are still close now. She has far more regrets about how I was raised than I do. She missed out, not me.

Kate CP - posted on 11/03/2009

What about work at home moms? I run a bakery business out of my kitchen. My daughter attends school full time (she's to be 4 in March) and I work. My husband works at his office and my office is my kitchen and computer. I like being able to be my own boss and stay at home. But at the same time there is a chance (I hope) that one day I'll have to move out of my kitchen and into a store front with a professional kitchen. For now I'm enjoying my time with my girl and my job.

Rachel - posted on 11/03/2009

Quoting Sharon:

I think its ridiculous. The argument. I've done both. My mom was a working mom.

I turned out great, my brother is great, my kids are fine.

Working M-F and partying all weekend is not "a break" its fking off when a child needs your attention.

If you are working and don't have the time or energy to do things with your child - then something isn't in balance. Why have a child to dodge them all the time?

I've been looking for the right position for 2 years now. I need a job that lets me work school hours and school hours only. To many places - even the stupid burger joints - expect you to put the job first. They can all kiss my ass.

Well said Sharon!!!!!!!!!! This argument has been around for years and will still be around for years to come yet.  I've been looking for the right job to suit my family's need's, yes we are struggling to make ends meet with me not working but as Sharon pointed out they expect you to put the job first and i'm sorry my children and my husband are more important in my life then earning a few bucks in a thankless job. I want to stay at home with my kids and raise them myself, i dont see the point in paying someone else to look after my children when i can do it for free and my children still get to learn to be around other children because i take them to a play group. I dont have a problem with SAHM or working mums as long as the children are happy and healthy it does'nt matter.

Charlie - posted on 11/03/2009

Quoting Esther:

Quoting Starr:

I think the problem with Kylie's argument is the assumption that all mothers have the same types of privilege and access to stay home full time.

I agree with that. However, I would also like to add that most working moms (myself included) find themselves saying things like "I have to work because we need the income". Which I'm sure is true for everyone who said it (including me), but why should we even have to give a reason? Why is it anyone's business? Why should we have to justify our choices?

I don't think there is anything wrong with women who CHOOSE to work even if they don't have to for financial reasons either. It's a choice. A lot of women before us fought very hard to give us that choice. I make sure my son does not want for anything. If he's sick, I'm there. If there is a school event, I'm there. When we're home, I am 100% focused and committed to him.

Even if we could live on just my husband's income, I honestly don't know that staying home would be the right thing for me or my son at all. For me, getting out of the house is a good thing. Having those adult conversations is a good thing. Having a certain structure to my days is a good thing. Giving my son (an only child) a chance to socialize with others is a good thing. Having him learn 2 languages (3 actually) is a GREAT thing.

Research shows that kids who go to a high quality daycare (which my son definitely does) do better on school entry tests, have a richer vocabulary, etc. (again, this is only true for a HIGH QUALITY daycare). Research also shows that women who work spend only 20% less time with their kids (focused time) than women who stay home. It's a personal choice. There is no one size fits all and I'll be damned if I'm going to apologize for doing the right thing for my family just because it may not be the right thing for another family.

Esther i agree 100% with you on this one , If i still lived where my old work was i would have returned not for finacial reasons but because i absolutely loved my work ,  thats not to say i dont love my son because i love him more than anything in the world but do i need to justify my wanting to go back to work NO .

And as a Teacher who worked at a high quality ( in fact highly awarded ) kindergarden i can say your reasearch and statistics does ring true and all of our children have been accepted early by schools and highly praised for their ability to perform at a higher level .

Of course this can be acheived by dedicated stay at home parents too who will encourage and help children explore all learning avenues .

Of course i am a SAHM i love every moment with Cooper and will enjoy every moment with our next child , but i do understand the need or want to work and as stated before  not everyone has the luxury of having that choice we all need to be accepting of each persons individual situations and how they choose deal with them , having said that i had many ( very rich parents ) whose children were in our centre 5 days a week while their mothers went to day spa's , got their nails done and worked out at the gym i understand them having one or two days but five days was a litlle sad but each to their own and i assure you those children got all the love , care and education possible from us ( the teachers) .

Sara - posted on 11/03/2009

Quoting Starr:

Quoting Esther:

Quoting Starr:

I think the problem with Kylie's argument is the assumption that all mothers have the same types of privilege and access to stay home full time.

I agree with that. However, I would also like to add that most working moms (myself included) find themselves saying things like "I have to work because we need the income". Which I'm sure is true for everyone who said it (including me), but why should we even have to give a reason? Why is it anyone's business? Why should we have to justify our choices?

 

But working moms are often judged as selfish because we're told that working outside the home means you're not committed full time to mothering. 

I totally agree with you two.  It wasn't really an option for me to quit my job when my daughter was born not only for financial reasons, but also because I happen to like my job and work in a very competitive field where jobs like mine are coveted, and I worked very hard to get here.  I deal with a lot of guilt because I have to spend so much time away from my daughter.  BUT, I have her in an excellent daycare where she is cared for very well, and I feel invested in the time i do spend with her at home.  I am completely committed full time to mothering.  My mother was a working mom and I never felt like she didn't have time for me, and I'm not a mass-murderer and I don't have any tattoos that read "Momma didn't love me" or anything like that!

Starr - posted on 11/03/2009

Quoting Esther:

Quoting Starr:

I think the problem with Kylie's argument is the assumption that all mothers have the same types of privilege and access to stay home full time.

I agree with that. However, I would also like to add that most working moms (myself included) find themselves saying things like "I have to work because we need the income". Which I'm sure is true for everyone who said it (including me), but why should we even have to give a reason? Why is it anyone's business? Why should we have to justify our choices?

I couldn't agree with you more.  There is so much Mommy guilt with owning up to the fact of "Hey...I work because I like to work and I like my job!"  Being a mom doesn't mean completely disowning who you were before and I'm not saying that being a SAHM you do. And I'm not saying that I can have it all regardless of the fact that I work.  Because Honey, no one...regardless of whether you work in the market or work as a SAHM can truly have it all. 

But working moms are often judged as selfish because we're told that working outside the home means you're not committed full time to mothering. 

My MIL once told me that her greatest accomplishment was giving birth to her two children and she was baffled when I replied that mine was being the first in my family to graduate from college.  "But you're a mother", she replied.  And I replied back that my kids were my greatest joy and that I just saw things differently than her.

SAHMs shouldn't receive judgement for choosing to stay at home and working mothers shouldn't have to use a cop out as to why they work when it might just be for the joy of it.

Esther, you hit the nail on the head.

Esther - posted on 11/03/2009

Quoting Starr:

I think the problem with Kylie's argument is the assumption that all mothers have the same types of privilege and access to stay home full time.

I agree with that. However, I would also like to add that most working moms (myself included) find themselves saying things like "I have to work because we need the income". Which I'm sure is true for everyone who said it (including me), but why should we even have to give a reason? Why is it anyone's business? Why should we have to justify our choices?

I don't think there is anything wrong with women who CHOOSE to work even if they don't have to for financial reasons either. It's a choice. A lot of women before us fought very hard to give us that choice. I make sure my son does not want for anything. If he's sick, I'm there. If there is a school event, I'm there. When we're home, I am 100% focused and committed to him.

Even if we could live on just my husband's income, I honestly don't know that staying home would be the right thing for me or my son at all. For me, getting out of the house is a good thing. Having those adult conversations is a good thing. Having a certain structure to my days is a good thing. Giving my son (an only child) a chance to socialize with others is a good thing. Having him learn 2 languages (3 actually) is a GREAT thing.

Research shows that kids who go to a high quality daycare (which my son definitely does) do better on school entry tests, have a richer vocabulary, etc. (again, this is only true for a HIGH QUALITY daycare). Research also shows that women who work spend only 20% less time with their kids (focused time) than women who stay home. It's a personal choice. There is no one size fits all and I'll be damned if I'm going to apologize for doing the right thing for my family just because it may not be the right thing for another family.

Jenny - posted on 11/03/2009

I am lucky to have my job. I work Mon-Fri 9-2. I get to drop my daughter off and pick her up from school everyday. My son goes to daycare and I get out of the house for a few hours. I'm home by three and have time to do my chores before supper.



I trie dfull time this summer and it KILLED me. I'd get home at 5:30 and have to cook supper while my kids needed me so it ended up with everyone being cranky. I told my boss I was gonig back to PT or he'd have to replace me. He made the right choice lol. As an added bonus my decreased daycare costs mean I take the same amount as I did working FT.

Starr - posted on 11/03/2009

I think the problem with Kylie's argument is the assumption that all mothers have the same types of privilege and access to stay home full time. A single mother who works minimum wage does not always have the ability to save her salary during the months she is pregnant in order to quit her job to stay home with her child. Even if she has a partner the likelihood of them living on her partners salary is hard if that partner also earns minimum wage.

This is the problem with these Mommy wars: both parties assume that all mothers have the same lifestyle to do either or and that is just not the case. To call a mother who puts her child in daycare at 6 weeks in order to provide economically because she has no man or family to support her is not selfish but rather responsible parenting. Would you rather pay out of your taxes for her to stay home with her child? Probably not, hence why many taxpayers hiss when a portion of their tax dollars go to the welfare rolls.

It's a lose lose situation: we criticize mothers who are on government assistance and stay at home and then we criticize women who work in the market and don't stay at home? This is not right.

Stay at home. Work in the market. It's a personal choice with sacrifices in both arenas. But don't assume that just because you have the means to do either that other people can to.

Traci - posted on 11/03/2009

Quoting Sharon:

I think its ridiculous. The argument. I've done both. My mom was a working mom.

I turned out great, my brother is great, my kids are fine.

Working M-F and partying all weekend is not "a break" its fking off when a child needs your attention.

If you are working and don't have the time or energy to do things with your child - then something isn't in balance. Why have a child to dodge them all the time?

I've been looking for the right position for 2 years now. I need a job that lets me work school hours and school hours only. To many places - even the stupid burger joints - expect you to put the job first. They can all kiss my ass.

Oh man...I hear ya!  A few years ago I was going to work at Target overnight for some extra Christmas money...well, I told them I can only work certain times because I would have to work when my husband is not...and they said they WILL NOT work around another work schedule.  Period.  I thought that was pretty high and mighty of them....it's only Target, afterall.....Jobs like that are a dime a dozen, so that sort of surprised me.

Traci - posted on 11/03/2009

Quoting Kylie:

well i think its very selfish of a Mum to have a baby and then put it in full time day care at six weeks so she can return to work. what about the childs rights?..a newborn deserves to have its mother full time especially in those early months.
I worked Saturday mornings and thursday nights when my daughter turned 2 and I'm planning to return to university when is my son is around 18 months. But I will still be at stay at home Mum first. My Mum is also great, we are slowly working up to me leaving my baby boy with her.. she came over and watched him while i walked my daughter to kindy last week and then on Sunday i dropped him off for 1.5 hours while we went to the markets. I think it's only fair to ease him into it. I'd also freak out if i had to leave him for 4+ hours, even with my mum.
My cousin had her baby in day care full time from six months..hes now 4 and half and still goes there 40 hours a week but she doesn't work anymore. that annoys me but i don't say anything. Each to their own i guess... i haven't noticed a rift or difference between working and SAH Mums in my life.

That really bugs me...when moms don't work and STILL have their kids in daycare.  What the heck is that about?  You want all the joys of kids, dressing them up in cute little outfits and stuff, but then you want to hand them off to a stranger all day???  For women who choose to work, fine, that's their decision, but if you stay home and your kid is in daycare, that's just lazy.  What message does that send to your kid?  Sorry, honey, Mommy doesn't want to deal with you right now....go to the nice stranger lady over there and she'll take care of you all day.

For me, if I had to work, it would KILL me to have to drop off my kids somewhere everyday.  I am so thankful we are able to live on one salary.  We have sacrificed a lot in order to do so....but the way I see it is-money will always be there, your child's innocent, sweet little smiles and hugs will not.  I'll work when they are grown.    DISCLAIMER: This is not to offend  the working moms out there :)

Esther - posted on 11/03/2009

BTW - Based on my fabulous experiences with my son's daycare I could probably even make the case that keeping him home would have been the selfish thing to do. But I won't because it would be just as ridiculous an argument as the reverse.

Esther - posted on 11/03/2009

Quoting Kylie:

well i think its very selfish of a Mum to have a baby and then put it in full time day care at six weeks so she can return to work. what about the childs rights?..a newborn deserves to have its mother full time especially in those early months.

I guess that's me then. I put my son in full-time daycare at 12 weeks to return to work. He's now 22 months old and doing just fine thank-you-very-much. And I absolutely LOVE my daycare. LOVE it. Cannot say enough good things about it. I don't think I'm going to apologize or even offer up excuses for why I did what I did. It was right for my family and anyone who disagrees with that can stuff it.

Diana - posted on 11/02/2009

Quoting Kylie:

well i think the idea of having it all is a myth..you can have it all but not all at the same time. A babies emotional and physical needs should come before anything else. Ideally mothers need time to establish that bond and get to know their baby and adjust to the new family dynamic in the early months. I consider being a mum a full time job and the most important job I'll ever do. I'm going to uni to finish my degree next year i still have two years to go. i differred and put my studies on hold to be there full time for my babies. I want to have a good job (teaching) by the time they are both in school and our hours will be similar so i can be there for them after school and on school holidays
my family lives on a single income and my hubby doesn't earn a whole lot, i feel if i we can do it anyone can. Personally I would rather live under a bridge than hand my newborn over to daycare workers and miss those early milestones. But i understand what your saying..its not right to pass judgment..everyone's family is different..its easy to make judgment sitting here at my computer looking at it from my own life experience. It must have been very hard on you to have to put your newborn baby into daycare.

I didn't-if you notice, I mentioned that I'm lucky enough to have family nearby who keep my son while I'm at work. I'm just making the point that there are mothers who can't because they don't have that support system or the ability to work off one income-or they may even be the sole income, as in the case of a single-parent family. I see what you're saying about people who put their career before their family, but that's not the case with all working moms. You have to bring everything into account-including that, like my son, the baby may not have been planned. My husband and I are thrilled to have our son and we love him, but we hadn't intended to have him until I graduated. I am so close to graduating that it makes no sense to stop now-all I have to do is finish writing and defend my work-so I worked on my degree while I was prego and have been working toward finishing it since I was able to get back around after the section. With my degree, I will be able to get a better job than I would be able to with just my bachelor's degree, which is why I pursued it in the first place. My son was a preemie, which makes it even more important for me to be able to get a good job-so that if there are any lingering health issues (though luckily there have been no issues so far, save jaundice the day after he was born and a stay in the NICU while he gained weight and learned to eat) I will be able to provide him with the care he needs. It's also important to me that I retain the goals I originally set for myself-one of which was to hold a master's degree. I love my son, and will do anything I can to make him happy and protect him. If something I want to do is at odds with his safety or happiness, I will not do it. However, I have no reason to think that my part-time job and my pursuit of a degree will harm him. My mom went back to work 6 weeks after she had me. I stayed with my grandmother during the day. I'm a happy, well-adjusted adult. I believe my son can be, too.

Diana - posted on 11/02/2009

Quoting Kylie:

well i think the idea of having it all is a myth..you can have it all but not all at the same time. A babies emotional and physical needs should come before anything else. Ideally mothers need time to establish that bond and get to know their baby and adjust to the new family dynamic in the early months. I consider being a mum a full time job and the most important job I'll ever do. I'm going to uni to finish my degree next year i still have two years to go. i differred and put my studies on hold to be there full time for my babies. I want to have a good job (teaching) by the time they are both in school and our hours will be similar so i can be there for them after school and on school holidays
my family lives on a single income and my hubby doesn't earn a whole lot, i feel if i we can do it anyone can. Personally I would rather live under a bridge than hand my newborn over to daycare workers and miss those early milestones. But i understand what your saying..its not right to pass judgment..everyone's family is different..its easy to make judgment sitting here at my computer looking at it from my own life experience. It must have been very hard on you to have to put your newborn baby into daycare.

I didn't-if you notice, I mentioned that I'm lucky enough to have family nearby who keep my son while I'm at work. I'm just making the point that there are mothers who can't because they don't have that support system or the ability to work off one income-or they may even be the sole income, as in the case of a single-parent family. I see what you're saying about people who put their career before their family, but that's not the case with all working moms. You have to bring everything into account-including that, like my son, the baby may not have been planned. My husband and I are thrilled to have our son and we love him, but we hadn't intended to have him until I graduated. I am so close to graduating that it makes no sense to stop now-all I have to do is finish writing and defend my work-so I worked on my degree while I was prego and have been working toward finishing it since I was able to get back around after the section. With my degree, I will be able to get a better job than I would be able to with just my bachelor's degree, which is why I pursued it in the first place. My son was a preemie, which makes it even more important for me to be able to get a good job-so that if there are any lingering health issues (though luckily there have been no issues so far, save jaundice the day after he was born and a stay in the NICU while he gained weight and learned to eat) I will be able to provide him with the care he needs. It's also important to me that I retain the goals I originally set for myself-one of which was to hold a master's degree. I love my son, and will do anything I can to make him happy and protect him. If something I want to do is at odds with his safety or happiness, I will not do it. However, I have no reason to think that my part-time job and my pursuit of a degree will harm him. My mom went back to work 6 weeks after she had me. I stayed with my grandmother during the day. I'm a happy, well-adjusted adult. I believe my son can be, too.

Kylie - posted on 11/02/2009

well i think the idea of having it all is a myth..you can have it all but not all at the same time. A babies emotional and physical needs should come before anything else. Ideally mothers need time to establish that bond and get to know their baby and adjust to the new family dynamic in the early months. I consider being a mum a full time job and the most important job I'll ever do. I'm going to uni to finish my degree next year i still have two years to go. i differred and put my studies on hold to be there full time for my babies. I want to have a good job (teaching) by the time they are both in school and our hours will be similar so i can be there for them after school and on school holidays
my family lives on a single income and my hubby doesn't earn a whole lot, i feel if i we can do it anyone can. Personally I would rather live under a bridge than hand my newborn over to daycare workers and miss those early milestones. But i understand what your saying..its not right to pass judgment..everyone's family is different..its easy to make judgment sitting here at my computer looking at it from my own life experience. It must have been very hard on you to have to put your newborn baby into daycare.

Diana - posted on 11/02/2009

I'm not talking about someone who puts a career over their family-because that's different and if a mother OR father does it then it's bad. I'm talking about the fact that you called working moms, all working moms, selfish if they go back to work when their child is 6 weeks old. The fact is that some people have to. I am one of those mothers, and I'm offended by the suggestion that I'm being selfish when I'm in fact trying to make life better for my family by going to school, working, and taking care of my son. I'm lucky not to have to go back full time, but some people aren't. My son has spent the last few nights away from home because I'm trying to finish my master's thesis. He is spending that time with my parents, because my husband works odd hours and I just can't do everything at once-I can't write, take care of him, and work. I'm not being selfish by finishing my degree or by working part time. In fact, if I were being selfish, I'd drop out of school and stay at home with him and just live off of taxpayer money. Instead, I'm trying to finish a degree before he gets older so that I can help make our lives better, hopefully making a higher salary thus having to work less, and I'm working as much as I can so that my family is shouldering its own burden-so that I don't have to the state pay for all of the bills, although as I said my parents are helping us just now of necessity. Moms have the right to choose whether they work or not, and, especially if it's for the betterment of the family, they should not be criticized for it. You or anyone else who wants to and can afford to stay at home with their children can absolutely go for it, without any criticism from me-because it's your choice. All I'm asking for, as a working mom, is the same respect and understanding that I'm giving you, and the benefit of the doubt that I know what is right for my family.

Kylie - posted on 11/02/2009

well newborns NEED that constant contact with their mother its as important as food and shelter. a six week old baby in full time day care is not right. Sorry, but it is selfish to put a career befor a vulnerable new baby. Parents can plan and make sacrifices -cut our foxtel and internet, buy in bulk, put some money away during the pregnancy so there some savings for the first 6 months of a child's life if there is no maternity leave payments. I didn't say all mothers who work and have children in daycare are selfish.

Sharon - posted on 11/02/2009

There are those women who have a child to satisfy "society" or to "complete the set". They have a job, a husband a house, now they have a child to finish the set. They've done it all, they can now be called supermom. They love their child but ..........



There are those need that title but don't want "really" to be a mom.



To be a mom was something I wanted REALLY REALLY deeply. To mother, to nurture, to see the wonder of the world all over again through a childs' eyes. I wanted that. I honestly don't think all women feel that way. I don't think every true mother feels the exact same way I do. Some come to that feeling after their child is born but feel pressured to stay at their job and stay the supermom.



I feel badly for those women. But honestly the ones that never "come to the realisation" aren't missing anything and their kids aren't really. They get love, they get what they want & need - really & truly they miss nothing. Because they don't know any different.



So all the women crying over the neglected kids - shouldn't be.

Diana - posted on 11/02/2009

Quoting Kylie:

well i think its very selfish of a Mum to have a baby and then put it in full time day care at six weeks so she can return to work. what about the childs rights?..a newborn deserves to have its mother full time especially in those early months.
I worked Saturday mornings and thursday nights when my daughter turned 2 and I'm planning to return to university when is my son is around 18 months. But I will still be at stay at home Mum first. My Mum is also great, we are slowly working up to me leaving my baby boy with her.. she came over and watched him while i walked my daughter to kindy last week and then on Sunday i dropped him off for 1.5 hours while we went to the markets. I think it's only fair to ease him into it. I'd also freak out if i had to leave him for 4+ hours, even with my mum.
My cousin had her baby in day care full time from six months..hes now 4 and half and still goes there 40 hours a week but she doesn't work anymore. that annoys me but i don't say anything. Each to their own i guess... i haven't noticed a rift or difference between working and SAH Mums in my life.

I think it's unfair to call a mom who puts  her child into daycare selfish. Sometimes, a mother needs to go back to work to be able to put food on the table for her family. If my parents were not helping with the bills while I finish my master's degree, I would've had to return to work full-time rather than part-time after the birth of our son to pay for food, clothes, electricity, and shelter for my husband, my son, and I. My husband does not make enough to support all of us, but he keeps his current job because not only is he happy there, but also because he actually has a *steady* job in a time when jobs are hard to come by. As soon as I finish my master's degree in December, I will return to a full-time job. Luckily we live close to my family and my mom is retired, so he won't actually have to go to daycare, but there are some women who don't live near anyone who can help them out that much. I think the rift between stay at home moms and working moms comes when people call one side selfish or misguided for their choice, or when one side doesn't recognize that sometimes things *have* to be a certain way. What about the child's rights? Well, my son has the right to be clothed and sheltered, to have running water, and to have electricity so that we have light, heat in the winter, and air conditioning in the summer. And I have the right to work to make that happen.

Kylie - posted on 11/02/2009

well i think its very selfish of a Mum to have a baby and then put it in full time day care at six weeks so she can return to work. what about the childs rights?..a newborn deserves to have its mother full time especially in those early months.
I worked Saturday mornings and thursday nights when my daughter turned 2 and I'm planning to return to university when is my son is around 18 months. But I will still be at stay at home Mum first. My Mum is also great, we are slowly working up to me leaving my baby boy with her.. she came over and watched him while i walked my daughter to kindy last week and then on Sunday i dropped him off for 1.5 hours while we went to the markets. I think it's only fair to ease him into it. I'd also freak out if i had to leave him for 4+ hours, even with my mum.
My cousin had her baby in day care full time from six months..hes now 4 and half and still goes there 40 hours a week but she doesn't work anymore. that annoys me but i don't say anything. Each to their own i guess... i haven't noticed a rift or difference between working and SAH Mums in my life.

Starr - posted on 11/02/2009

I hate the debates too. I work in the market because I want to upkeep and support our current lifestyle and because I do love my job. I'd be lying though if I said that I partly envy those who can stay at home with their children. That is a blessing. I do feel like that is the hardest job in the world next to teachers.

I talked about this very issue on my blog: http://suburbtopia.blogspot.com/2009/10/... with regards to the whole opt out debate because I think these mommy wars can get out of hand. We just seem to love to fling around Mommy guilt regardless of what we do: guilt for staying at home and not "contributing" to women breaking the glass ceiling and guilt for leaving your children in a daycare 8 hours of the day to go break that glass ceiling. Good grief!

I hate the "war". What is good for one goose is not always good for the gander. The feminist movement was about choice: about being free to choose your choice. Not at the ridicule and judgment of others.

Parents of all types need to band together to work towards a better community for all children. This Mom on Mom hate is horrible.