Would Hillary Have Done Better?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/15/2011

Hearing that Rebecca makes me want to stay in Canada a while longer. I don't want to have another GOP or Tea party candidate in the White House we can't take much more of that.

I think the worst part about the whole deal is what everyone else is saying: that Obama was handed a floundering economy from 8 years of Bush politics, 2 wars, and a huge deficite (we had a surplus under Clinton, so what if he couldn't keep it in his pants? His wife forgave him and it didn't kill anyone) and was expected to wave a magic wand and fix it. Because that's what the GOP believed Obama's supporters thought he could do. Sorry dears, but JK Rowling wasn't writing this novel. If she did, Cheney would play the part of Voldemort.

I believe we need the economists in the White House we had when Bill Clinton was president so maybe we can get this mess turned around

Rebecca - posted on 08/15/2011

I agree with you ladies about the fact that, even though racism is still a huge issue, the voters would rather a black man than a woman with twice that man's experience.

Had a talk with my father in Texas last night and he shares the opinion that there was not a whole lot any one politician could have done given the cow patty they were given to work with. He feels that it is quite likely that the US will go through a period not unlike the 70's gas shortage period. He thinks it truly is a waiting game until the economy can heal. He says, since it is unlikely Obama will be re-elected, he'd rather one of "those right wing nuts" gets in and gets all the blame until the economy has time to heal. Then we could move on after 4-5 years with someone like Hillary.

Now he's a bit of an old salty dog and I'm not sure I want some "right wing nut" to get in and do any more damage (or start another war)...but some of it makes sense.

Amy - posted on 08/15/2011

It is so hard to tell. There were years and years of bad decisions leading up to this crisis. Obama was basically handed a pile of crap and asked to magiclly turn it into birthday cake. His biggest mistake was saying it might be possible. I also thought that Hillary would have been a better choice. She has more experience and has already spent a lot of time trying to get things done in DC and failing at some of it. She already made the mistakes and learned form them, that counts for a lot with me. I also knew that she would never be elected as President. As much as we would like to believe otherwise, while racism is very real in the is county, I believe that sexism is more prevalent than racism in this county and a MAN of any race other than white would be elected president before this county would ever elect a woman.

Becky - posted on 08/10/2011

This glitch is really getting annoying!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/10/2011

Sorry ya'll I broke the internet.

I'm kind of wondering if Obama may at least choose a new running mate for next year's election. I honestly can't think of the vice president's name right now, but anyone would be better than the guy who suggested that Americans try to avoid taking public planes or something back in 2009 during the H1N1 outbreak.

Karla - posted on 08/10/2011

Sorry Dana, it's because I keep posting "c" so I can see the next page! my bad.

Lacye - posted on 08/10/2011

trying to see what the second page says

Alexandra - posted on 08/10/2011

It doesnt matter who had been in office these problems had been brewing since clinton left office. With bush cutting taxes for all the major corp. and all the ridiculously rich people all he did was make all his buddies happy and royally screw this country over. No country can run on its name alone. You need revenue, as in taxes. I dont see how he thought it was a good idea to cut programs for the less fortunate. Hand out raises like candy and cut taxes to those that really can afford to pay them. People complain that too many people are on welfare but when you cut the programs set up to help them get jobs and back on there feet you leave them no choice but to live off of welfare. I said as soon Obama took office that he is screwed because nothing he does will be able to stop the run away train that was set in motion before he set foot in office. He will be blamed for whats happening to this country and im sure he fully knows that but you know what he is a better man for atleast giving it a try. I personally supported hillary but i knew she wasnt goin anywhere because when you have a woman running and a black man, im sorry but america would have prefered a man no matter the race rather than a woman. Hopefully we will see a woman in office in my lifetime.

Dana - posted on 08/10/2011

I've got it set that way too, Jenny. Although it said Karla posted and I see nothing. And I have the pages at the bottom only which has been that way since last week for me (still lame addition or subtraction) and it worked fine last week, now it won't switch pages at all.

Jenny - posted on 08/10/2011

I have the pages on the bottom of the comments, not the top where they used to be. I also organise my threads to display most recent first so they come up right when I click the thread title.

Dana - posted on 08/10/2011

Still can't read current posts, huh. I leave for a week and not only is the old glitch here but, there's this stupid new one where you can't get past the first fucking page....oy.

Dana - posted on 08/10/2011

I think she would have done better. Of course I supported her in the primary. ;)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/10/2011

Circle of Moms has an ebil glitch. And I need to stop going on I can haz cheezeburger. :P

Karla - posted on 08/09/2011

I think Circle of Moms has another glitch. :-(

Lacye - posted on 08/09/2011

Why is it I have to post something to look at the second page?

Karla - posted on 08/09/2011

I cannot see page 2 unless I post something and it's getting annoying! (Posting this to see page 2 and complain at the same time, 2 birds - 1 stone.)

Karla - posted on 08/09/2011

@ Amanda,

It’s not that I like the national debt or anything, but I find your numbers to be faulty.

If the system isnt broken why has USA raised their debt ceiling over 100's of times?
Most countries don’t have a debt ceiling – they just have debt without a ceiling to be approved.

In 1917 the debt ceiling was set at $11.5 billion, in 2010 it was at $14.294 trillion, as of May 16th USA hit that ceiling.
I’m sure this is awful.. but I still have to mention that inflation is not reflected in these numbers, and we are currently at war; which always makes the debt worse. Again, I’m not defending the skyrocketing debt; I just don’t think these numbers are an equivalent comparison.

In 2001 the debt ceiling was raised 10 times in one year!
This is the number I really wonder about. GWBush came into office on January 20, 2001, and he raised the debt ceiling a total of 7 times in 8 years; before him Clinton raised the debt ceiling a total of 4 times in 8 years. Even though I cannot find the exact number for 2001 I believe it is impossible that it was raised 10 times that year.

On the rest of your post I would say that the government is only partially for the people, but that there is evidence that huge corporations are having a gigantic influence on our government.

I just found a chart that shows Canada’s public debt as a percent of GDP is actually higher than the USA’s – probably due to your health care system. I agree that the USA could be in very good shape if cutting taxes for the rich and corporations had not been a priority in the past 10 years. That hurt our economy.
http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-databa...

I think the main problem in the USA right now is that people (republicans & tea-party) think a country this size can function with a libertarian government, and it cannot. We need to understand that taxes, a.k.a. revenue, are a necessity to support our country. We also need to stop allowing our largest corporations the privilege of doing business in the USA without the responsibility of having their offices and manufacturing plants in this country. And of course we need to stop the wars (though they are employing a lot of people.)

Lacye - posted on 08/09/2011

Is the USA in a crisis right now? Yep, not denying that. Am I watching the world pass us by? Nope. I disagree. Yes I think we would have some of the same problems that we have now but I think Hillary would have been able to handle them better. She has had more experience in such things than Obama has. I don't think she would have spent as much money as he has on programs that isn't very well thought out.

Jenny, I don't have the wool pulled over my eyes, but as a citizen, I do see the good that some do. No country is perfect. All countries around the world has their moments where they have a rough patch, and right now, that's the United States.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/09/2011

Sadly that's true.

Katharine - posted on 08/09/2011

Yep, instead of trying to help the country, she would be wasting her energy fighting off past scandals.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/09/2011

Katharine, Basically what we have now, but with different issues eh?

Katharine - posted on 08/09/2011

In my opinion I think it would be worse under Hillary Clinton, the Republicans would have held her programs or bills hostage or shoot them down, and they would be bringing up Whitewater and the Lewinsky scandals all over again and she wouldn't have been able to get anything passed or done.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/09/2011

Canada's just as screwed up in some ways. The voting system is set up like a pyramid scheme. They had an emergancy vote a few months before I moved here to try and get a new PM because Harper's trying to run the country like a dictatorship and filling Parliment with his buddies... or the cabinet Canadian politics are still new to me. Anyway all that happened was the BQ was bumped down to 2 seats in Parliment, the NDP now has as many seats as the Conservative party- or near that, the Liberal party got bumped down and Harper is still PM. Do not get me started on how badly BC messed up the voting on if we should keep or toss the HST.

No one is debating on if the US is safe or not- we're just speculating on what Hilary may have done differently. I may be in Canada but I still love my country. Yes I make jokes about it, but really it's a great country. It's the people in charge of the entire opperation who need a swift kick in the ass to get it back on track.

The issue with the millions of people paying taxes is that 9% of the entire working age population in the States is out of work at the moment and therefore can't pay taxes. We need an economic turn around not a bunch of right wing nitwits worrying about who's going to sit in the pretty chair and make a pretty speech in 2012 and again in 2013 when they get to have the keys to the fancy mansion in DC. And that's all we have now. Small children trapped in large adult bodies fighting like they're still in the school yard and saying that they aren't going over with the President because he has cooties. Or at least that's how it looked from everything I saw and read here in Canada and before I moved from New York in June.

Amanda - posted on 08/09/2011

If the system isnt broken why has USA raised their debt ceiling over 100's of times? In 1917 the debt ceiling was set at $11.5 billion, in 2010 it was at $14.294 trillion, as of May 16th USA hit that ceiling. In 2001 the debt ceiling was raised 10 times in one year! This is irresponsable government, and shocks me that the general public allows this. If your government is truely for the people, why does it keep spending your money like a kid in a candy store?

Canada doesnt have this kind of debt (yes I know we have less people in our country, which in turn means we have less people also paying taxes), but are able to keep Canada safe and everyone have healthcare. There is no excuse for this type of debt with millions of people who can pay taxes and help keep the country afloat.



Like I said before it doesnt matter whos in power, they are just figure heads for the those behide the curtains.

Jenny - posted on 08/09/2011

Of course not all, talking in absolutes about any topic is ridiculous. I just don't feel the need to put disclaimers on everything I post. Do you deny it is a crisis? Do you feel the rest of the world is passing you by right now?

So you think Americans are willing to make personal sacrfices for the country? How about rich people, are they willing to sacrifice because the evidence says no way. The first sacrifice would be paying higher labour costs and hiring American workers. They don't care about that though, they care about profit period.

If Hillary was in office, it would be excatly the same vitriol just with a different face. There would be accusations of her husband secretly running things for sure. Hillary and Obama both attended a Bilderberg meeting right before the election. That should be a big concern for people. Things are being ran behind the scenes as much as we are told voting matters. It's lies to make the people feel good. The only true representitive Democracy is Direct Democracy.

These people are all fighting for the best interests of their friends, corporations. So long as you keep the wool over your eyes things will never get better. It's really fucked out there right now.

Lacye - posted on 08/09/2011

Let's get something clear, not all of the American people are uneducated and overweight. As for losing credit ratings, we went down one rung from the top, which is still pretty damn good. The main posting was not about how the USA is failing, it's about whether Hillary Clinton could have done a better job. How about we stick to that subject instead of playing the "USA sucks" game. Because let's face it, I love my country and I haven't seen one damn person in the state that I live in that has been sitting by waiting for superman to come save us. Your assumptions seem to be very off.

Jenny - posted on 08/09/2011

If the system wasn't broken your country wouldn't be floundering right now and losing credit ratings due to political polarisation. The evidence shows the system is broken. Ideally, your ruled by the people but that ideal passed on many decades ago, I'd say it started with the founding of the Federal Reserve.

The people are only there to keep the rich rich now, the hampsters on the wheel so to speak. Private security is skyrocketing, true class warfare is coming soon.

You are not doing the best you can, you are apatheticly waiting for superman to come in and save the day without having to sacrifice anything at all. You have become an uneducated, overweight population who is content to stay on the path of consumption. How much more of a beating do the American people need to take before they rise up against this and take their country back?

Becky - posted on 08/09/2011

I had to go look up "plutocracy" because to me, it sounded like America is being run by Mickey Mouse's dog! :)

Lacye - posted on 08/09/2011

Jenny I have to disagree with you. The system isn't broken. Some people may not understand why we do what we do, but there is a reason behind it. We are ruled by the rich, we are ruled by the people and no some of the choices have not always been the greatest, we are doing the best with what we are dealt with.

Jenny - posted on 08/09/2011

No, she wouldn't have. It is the system that is broken. The individuals who occupy the seats could be anyone at this point. The rich run the show now, America is a plutocracy. Time for another civil war.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/09/2011

All we can really do now is speculate which is human nature. But we know that whichever Democrat was put into the Oval Office the majority of Republicans would be blaming him or her for the current issues even though their party was in power for 8 years. Even last night (I get US channels here in Canada) John McCain was blaming the Democrats. I was sitting on my couch thinking 'Dude, I appreciate what you did for your counrty, but seriously go retire. You live in AZ for goodness sake. They have great retiree weather.

Mary - posted on 08/09/2011

I think this line of thought is pretty pointless. I'm fairly confident that if it was Hillary, her husband, or George Washington reincarnated we'd still be sitting here saying "So-and-So would have done a better job". That's just human nature.

I find the whole government frustrating. No one person can be held accountable for the mess our finances are in; it is a collective failing of the entire system. How you can look at this and say "Obama should have done ____ and then we wouldn't be in this mess" is beyond me. I think his administration has tried to do things....problem is, by the time it gets through all the school-yard fights and antics that is our collective House of Representatives, it is so far removed from what was originally intended, I don't see how you can call it "Obama's" ideas or intent. I don't think Hillary, or even God, Allah, or the all-powerful Flying Spaghetti Monster could do much better when having to get through all of the bureaucratic bullshit that is our government.

I'm not advocating for a dictatorship, but with the way our government is set up, I think it is foolish to believe that the president alone is responsible for pretty much anything, good or bad, that happens with this economy.

Katherine - posted on 08/09/2011

So true Amanda so true. But Hillary would have handled that pile of shit better.

Amanda - posted on 08/09/2011

Im not american, so I didnt vote for anyone. I dont think it matters who is in office, Usa has been in trouble since the Regan was in office. The Usa economy problems were caused long before Obama was in office, Usa's international relationships have been ruined long before Obama. Asking which person would do a better job is useless because Hilary and Obama would of been both handed the same big pile of shit to climb out of, and no human could fix all the mistakes of many past leaders in 4 years.

Karla - posted on 08/08/2011

I also voted for Hilary in the primary, I thought she was the better person for the job.



As to whether or not she would have done a better job; that I cannot speculate on with any amount of surety.



I will say that I could see this scenario: She would have pushed through an Affordable Healthcare Act as well, and it would have been called ClintonCare by the Right wing-nuts, and the teapartiers would have risen up and we would still be in the mess we are in today.



I see it clear as if it had happened. Any references to a black president would just be altered to “the woman president”… lots of PMS jokes and menopause jokes… politics has a volatile atmosphere, especially today.

Katherine - posted on 08/08/2011

Yep, she would have been a better president. She's a let's get it done kind of woman. Not lounge around and talk about it.


She is showing the muscle and guts in State that Obama seems to have lost in the White House.

She also had good long-term relationships with many Republicans from her time in the senate. She also understood how the game was played, how the horse trading got done.

She also has a clear voice with no muddled message.

Take the issue of the killings by Israeli commandos in Gaza of the Free Gaza flotilla members.

It was State that came out quickly and forced Israel to back away from their initial belligerent statements.

It seems Clinton is not afraid to confront a great ally and tell them when they were wrong.

She is not afraid to confront period.

That comes from a lifetime of seasoning in different political jobs and positions and a sense that when compromise is impossible confrontation is not to be shied away from.

It seems increasingly apparent to me, watching Obama founder, that the wrong Democrat was elected president.


http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/p...

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/08/2011

I don't know if anything could've helped the mess we're in now. The Republicans are pissed off that they can't have their way and insist on acting like over tired 4 year olds and the Democrats aren't much better.



That said I did vote for Obama, but I do believe that since Hilary had more experiance as a senator and dealing with morons on both sides she could've done a better job. I mean she managed to pull her marriage back together after a major public scandal. Sadly as much as I like Obama he doesn't seem to have much of a backbone when it comes to dealing with the other party not wanting to compromise. He ends up being the only one who does it and the American people suffer for it.



The economy is in the toilet right now and while Americans are worried about their jobs the GOP is worried about the 2012 elections. Wake up dears, the future is now.

Lacye - posted on 08/08/2011

Honestly, I thought the same thing you did. I think she would have been the better choice and I did actually vote for her. I do think that we still would have some of the downfall that we've had since the Bush administration but I think Hillary would have handled it better. I'm not knocking Obama, but Hillary was the better choice.