No vaccines, No Doctors, No way! PART 2!

Stephanie - posted on 06/01/2009 ( 38 moms have responded )

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About 5 months ago I posted a conversation about no vaccines, no doctors and it caused a bit of an up-roar. I totally didn't mean to upset anyone I was and still am just looking for some folks that have similar beliefs and also have had similar experiences. And through that I hope to shed the light of vaccines and "doctors" to others! :)

A bit about myself: My husband and I had our first daughter July 19, 2008 Born Free-Birth which means Planned Unassisted Homebirth. We loved the idea of having it just be him and I there and it was a great experience. 40 hour labor, no tearing, and I focused all my energy on finding my inner strength and didn't even scream or yell or anything. Im saying this because in this culture we are taught to be afraid of labor... all these movies showing death during childbirth and all these complications that are more times than not, caused by the hospital. My husband and I stay far away from hospitals and doctors and knew when we had a baby that wouldn't change. Our daughter has never seen a doctor, never had a vaccine, was born weighing just over 10 pounds and has never had a cold, never had a runny nose, never had a fever, never had upset stomach or anything. Since her 2nd week she has slept 12-13 hours a night.

I dont believe this is coincidence. I believe it is because she has never had medication, vaccines, etc. She still drinks breastmilk every few hours and also eats all the organic produce she can get! :)

Has anyone else had similar experiences? No vaccines? No doctors? Free-birth (planned unassisted homebirths)?

While on the topic of crunchy parenting... anyone out there planning on UNschooling?

Just thought it would be great to meet those of you out there that share in our beliefs.
Thanks

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Alycia - posted on 06/08/2009

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That's great thanks, we use sea salt on our own food all the time only sea salt actually. I never thought to use it for him yet, thank you I appreciate it :)

Stephanie - posted on 06/08/2009

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ORGANICS: Did you know that if you consumed an average apple you would be eating over 30 pesticides, even after you have washed it?

Pesticides in food have been linked to many diseases including:

Cancer
Obesity
Altzheimer's
Some birth defects

YES organic food is more expensive but if you slowly change your eating to organic you will notice that you aren't as hungry and eat in smaller portions naturally. This is because Organic food doesnt have chemicals to keep you consuming more... YES this sounds insane that regular food has chemicals to keep you addicted, but seriously the FDA is a scary thing.

NON organic snack foods can cost a fortune, so eventually when you are consuming all organic you wont be buying extra snacks, and there are farmers markets.

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF ITS REALLY ORGANIC:
See in Farmers markets some things arent specifically labeled organic because it is extremley expensive to have the organic certification of a farm. Thousands and thousands of dollars a year. So you have to trust their word for it, but in markets look for the label that says USDA organic and that is true. They have to pay so much because they have intense testing and inspection to insure that it is organic. So when you see that label know that you are really getting organic. And always remember anyone can put a label saying "natural" it doesnt cost anything, but it looks good, so you should only get the label saying USDA organic.

DIAPER RASH:
I had heard that Bag Balm worked, but if you notice it is packed with antibiotics, which will absorb into the skin. So although it works, it isnt something you want to use consistently.

Rashes are caused by lack of salt. Not table salt. Lake of SEA SALT. Ask yourself this question: Are you still breastfeeding? If yes then here is something that will work overnight:
Get a bag of vegetable capsules at a local health food or drug store (or online) go home and fill 6 with sea salt. Take it with food. And do this twice a day. You will see a dramatic change in the rash within a few breatfeedings after you consume the pills.

If you are not breastfeeding, put a nice amount of sea-salt on the babies food. Try and sprinkle some on everything he/she eats

Within a few meals it will dramatically change.

This also works for heat rashes and other skin irritations. And sea salt helps in YOUR digestion and your babies. So its a good supplement to take 2 pills 2x a day once your babies rash clears if you are breast feeding, or still sprinkle sea salt on their food once the rash clears.

BUT make sure it is SEA-SALT. NOT table salt.

:)

Samantha - posted on 06/07/2009

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Alycia- For you diaper rash question. My daughter had some pretty bad ones. So i used basicly all kinds out there. I was told to get Bag Balm and Since i've been using it she hasnt had any at all. It cleared up pretty fast as well. :) HTH

Alycia - posted on 06/07/2009

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WOWZERS! Intense. Well I don't think it needs to be an argument really, I think it's great Samantha has some good resources to share with everyone. Pitting Vaccinators against none is not an "issue" nor should it be an argument...just as I believe no one religion is correct no one lifestyle choice is correct either. I think we should all open our minds allow the intake of information of the opposing party like Stephanie mentioned both sides have great points. We need to accept that people live different lifestyles and that doesn't make either side bad parents or people in the least. We're all different it makes the world a very interesting place to live that's for sure.
Natural living is just that a way of life, like there are different stages of Vegetarians and varying degrees to which people follow religions. Some choose to take it to extreme heart and some pick and choose what they hold dear. Going with nature and living with what the world provides for us is a form of lifestyle and shoudl be left at that with no harsh judgement.

That being said...I am wondering if anyone has any ideas what else works for bum rash. Perhaps something I might mix Calendula ointment with?

As for the organic food question...I try to keep money within my own community due to economic downfall I strongly believe in supporting the local produce and keeping the money within the area. So I buy from local farms at our market and nothing is grown with chemicals and it's a great way to feel good about what I make for my son to eat. When produce in the area is out of season I am someone who asks questions at the grocery store like where something came from and how long it took to get here because organic or not it can still be sprayed to preserve the freshness. So don't be afraid to ask questions!

Best wishes all

Shanna - posted on 06/07/2009

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NICOLA...i was not calling ANYBODY crazy nor implying that they were bad parents. I said the fact of not vaccinating was crazy to me because I have never met someone who did not have their child vaccinated. And TO ME, that is crazy. I totally do not think they are bad parents! This topic was up for debate and they said they enjoyed a debate, I was debating. I think they are great parents, just becasue we don't agree on a subject does not mean I dislike them or think they are any less of a parent than myslef. Thanks.



And if I did offend anyone or if anyone thought I was calling them names I am sorry! Just dissagree on the topic. I have noticed we do have other things we can agree on, we're human :)

Samantha - posted on 06/07/2009

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Opps i forgot the other questions.. :( My bad..

So i've been breastfeeding for 10 months. I plan on to do the Child-led weening. As for organics i try to buy from the farmers market for fruits and veggies. To help support the local farmers.. Best way to get your fruit and veggies so you know they werent on a truck for days.. :) if im missing something you asked let me know :)

Samantha - posted on 06/07/2009

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Okay So heres more about Religious Exemptions for anyone who wants to read.



Your religious beliefs can change, so you can exempt a previously vaxed child. You could also pretend your child is not vaxed to make life easier.











Some states, like NY(contact Gary Krasner for help -- On the NYS form they request that your letter:



-explains why are you are requesting the exemption

-describes the religious principles that guide your objection to vaxes

-indicates whether you are opposed to all vaxes, and if not, why you are opposed to some vaxes but not others



As long as your letter covered those 3 points then they shouldn't ask for any "supporting evidence".)









and NJ allow the state to question the sincerity of your beliefs; the following is VERY important.











-For a religious exemption you need to be "against the practice of vaccination". If you give your reasons to be against vaccinations as:



"I'm against vaccination because they use aborted fetal cells" - This is a philosophical reason.



"I'm against pre-marital sex and some vaxes are for sexually transmitted diseases." This is a philosophical reason.



Again, you have to be against the the practice of vaccination. For a more through explanation of why this is read the Wexler decision below.



-Also, you DO NOT have to be a member of a religion doctrinally opposed to vaccination. You can be Wiccan, Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, church of the flip flops, and still claim a religious exemption do to your personal religious beliefs against the practice of vaccination. Dr. Mercola does a good job of explaining this in my Religious Exemptions link below (you may have to register to read it).



-One more thing, you do not want to include specific biblical verses as your interpretation could be challenged. You need to describe your personal religious beliefs.









-Require that all questions regarding your exemption be in writing and give answers in writing. Do not give verbal responses.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Religious Exemptions



The Wexler Decision



To find out what exemptions are offered by your state (for school and such) check here:

http://www.nvic.org/state-site/state-exe...

http://www.novaccine.com/law-exemptions/









All states except West Virginia and Mississippi offer religious and/or philosophical exemptions, and the supreme court ruled that you do not have to belong to a non-vaxing religion or have clergy sign your religious exemption. Exemptions can be submitted in lieu of vaccination records (I would do it this way).

Samantha - posted on 06/07/2009

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Wow.. All i can say is that there was some activity yesterday while i was busy. :) Which is good.



Nicola- Thank you for your post. Yes we all need to be sensitive to everyones choices as a parent. I know im not the normal mom with my choices BUT im still a mom like you and everyone else. :) I know some people dont agree but they dont have to bring down the other moms for their choices being different. Even if they dont agree with it.



Stephanie- It takes some effort on my part to be composed especially when someone has bad mouthed my parenting style. I feel that since this is a touchy subject it needs to be talked about very carefully. If you are pushing the subject too much people wont be too receptive. Just my opinion. :)



AND last but not least. :D

I live in Washington State and YES it rains 10 months out of the year.. (haha.. but literally.. :P )



So to answer your question Sandra. There is more then just a Religious Exemption. Not all states accept a philisophical exemption but most do. I'll post a website for you to see which states accept what ok? But as for the religious exemption. You dont have to state what your religion is. Just STATE that its against your religious practice to vaccinate. Because the US cant question religions. Also you dont want to state anything from the bible because it could be interpreted many different ways. For philispohical all you have to be is against vaccinating. But you dont have to get the exemptions until school. Like the summer before they start. They also dont last forever. So you will have to get a new one every couple years or so. AND they also work for Daycares if they are getting state funding. They have to accept them. No ifs ands or buts..



http://www.novaccine.com/law-exemptions/



Please- You do NOT have to vaccinate your child. Its your CHOICE! No one can force you. If they threaten with CPS. They cant do anything. TRUST ME! It is not AGAINST the law to NOT Vaccinate.. We all have a choice. Use your voice for your child because you ARE their best Advocate.

Nicola - posted on 06/07/2009

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This can be a very heated personal debate on both sides. I personally chose to vaccinate my son, but I think it is a personal choice. I do not know why people, especially fellow females would point fingers and call others crazy and imply they are a bad mother, that is a low blow....please be sensitive to other people and their viewpoints...there are pros and cons to each and we need to respect each other

Sandra - posted on 06/06/2009

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So all i would need to say its against my religion for me to be exempt and not have to give my daughter further vaccines? Except the rotavirus, i have given her the vaccines up to her 10 months, because they were mandatory (or so i thought...the rotavirus is not mandatory for school). I do plan in putting my daughter in public schools since i do not see what is wrong with that. My question Stephanie is, when you buy organic, how do you REALLY know its organic, and its not stated as organic, but it isnt...

Stephanie - posted on 06/06/2009

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WOW I missed alot while I was gone a couple days!!!

Samantha, I LOVE your posts. You handled yourself well when replying. Im still working on my responses! I get so frustrated when parents just listen to their doctor and their parents and vaccinate and never ever ever ever do any research for themselves.

My sister and her husband are BIG into the medical world. He is a doctor and my husband is an EFT practitioner which is energy healing....and we are very anti-doctors obviously. Well we have had it out many times. And when we got pregnant they were furious when we had the baby without a midwife, and they were furious when we told them no no no no way we would ever vaccinate. He is completley brainwashed by the system. Its insane how many people are brainwashed by the system.

I love the examples people give and their reasoning TO vaccinate. Its incredible that NONE of it makes sense if they took 2 seconds to EDUCATE themselves. And not by reading FDA inspired or medical inspired books!

Again I write this website....


http://thinktwice.com/


http://thinktwice.com/


http://thinktwice.com/


http://thinktwice.com/


http://thinktwice.com/


Sandra, I live in Boston, Massachusetts... we are not sending our daughter to public schools, but I know a family that even though they aren't christian science, they say that they are and that vaccines are against their new found religion and they are exempt.

In Massachusetts it is against the law not to have health insurance. But my husband and I wouldnt ever have it. So we stated it was against our religion and got an exemption form so we are all set.

We eat all organic and yes there totally is a difference, way to much to name here. Natural is just a lie (in my opinion) because it isnt held to the standards as organic is. You need to go to your local bookstore or online and buy "The Natural Cures They Dont Want You To Know" by Kevin Trudeau.

http://www.naturalcures.com/

It will tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about organic food, the FDA, etc. It is a MUST read.

I plan on breastfeeding at least 18 months. Im a stay at home mom

:)

Shanna - posted on 06/06/2009

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*I may continue breastfeeding at night for months to come. My daughter still wakes up once around 5am to nurse. As well as her bedtime feed I might continue. But once she is up for the day she can just have her snacks or cow's milk.

Shanna - posted on 06/06/2009

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I am from BC, Canada. I think the chicken pox vaccine is manditory in schools because it will be a problem when all the kids in a school get it. A chicken pox vaccine is silly, yes. But I believe in the vaccine against the more dangerous illnesses.



I feed my daughter organic when I can. If I can't find something she needs in organic, then I just get her the non organic, no big deal. I dont stress about it. That's the thing, how do you really know its organic...



I am still breastfeeding my daughter, but I plan to stop within the next month or 2. Haven't started the weaning process yet though. I think I'm going to miss it but I am proud of myself that I have been able to do it for as long as I have!



I have been a stay at home mom up until about 3 weeks ago. I have gone back to school so my daughter is now in Daycare...HARDEST thing I have ever had to do. I hate leaving her!



What about you??

Sandra - posted on 06/06/2009

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Hello! I am wondering where you are all from. I also do not like vaccines, but have to give them to my daughter so that she can go to school. These vaccines are mandatory. The one that isnt (in the USA) is the rotavirus, which i have not given her and do not plan to. I also think its ridiculous that they have a vaccine for chicken pox. I have gone through the chicken pox while i was younger and although itchy and unpleasant, it wasn't that bad. Why is it mandatory for school?

As far as organic food, what is the opinion on it. Why not feed them regular food from the supermarket? Is organic food, REALLY organic? How do you know? By this question i do not mean to offend anyone, but mostly make us think about these things.

How long do you ladies think about breastfeeding? Are you stay at home moms? (just curious) =)

Thanks for you opinions, this topic is really interestinG!

Shanna - posted on 06/06/2009

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I have researched vaccinations as well and I still find it mind boggling that someone would not vaccinate their child. ADD and ADHD (which are not caused by vaccinations) are not life-threatning, while the diseases that my daughter is getting vaccinated against are. I believe that getting her vaccinated is very important!! To ignore a vaccine is way too risky for me!



As far as you "not dragging your daughter around" if (god forbid) she contracted measels (or some other preventable desease), I'm sure you would need to leave your home at some point while she was at home ill, so when you are out and about you are most likely carrying the illness as well, therefor anyone not vaccinated agaist it, is in dannger.



You are very right in that these diseases and illnesses that our children are being vaccinated rarely cause deaths, but the can! And they DO! A LOT more often than vaccinations harm people that recieve them...Same goes for doctors, they are highly educated people that do know what they are talking about, People have to remember that Doctors are people and people aren't perfect! I always like to have a relationship with my doctor because that way, you know they care and they are looking after you. You have to pick a doctor thats right for you! I call my doctor whenever my daughter is sick, he gives me advice, peace of mind, and support when I need it. He lets me know weather he needs to see her or not. I couldnt imagine not having a doctor to talk to or bring my daughter to.

Samantha - posted on 06/05/2009

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People who dont vaccinate by choice arent stupid people. plain and simple. People who dont vaccinate because they cant afford it or just plain choose not to for no reason at all just dont want to bring their children in. probably would do it. But if a child is sick with a virus (which is what your deadly diseases are.) would keep their child at home in bed or on the couch with extra fluid and some vitamins and probiotics. They wouldnt be dragging them around. And im sorry you saw 1 child die of whooping cough. But if they are over 6 months its very UNLIKELY for them to die. It just isnt fun. But what illness is? My daughter had Rotavirus. Was sick just for a week. Had diahrea and threw up. She lived through it. Everyone in the house got it.. She didnt need to be hospitalized. I just nursed her when she wanted to eat. That was it. I just think this world is over medicated.. Maybe thats why everyone else is dying of other things or people are sick. Have you ever wondered why there is a rise in ADD, ADHD, Autism, Autoimmune disorders, Diebetes, Cancer? I could go on and add more. but im sure you get the idea. I think the us (not being the U.S, us as in people) are trying to be disease free or cure everything. These things were put on the planet for a reason. Disease is here for a purpose. IF it wasnt then it wouldnt be here. ( i am not religous) But its how i feel. Take it how you want.



I find it scarey how the government is trying to control everything. Slowly but surely. I know that if we ever loose our freedom i defiently be leaving. I will not live any where when i cant choose my own life path. Its scarey what this world is becoming. We will slowly loose our parental control over what happens with our children. What would you do if that happened? I guess most of the world wont care because the government will brainwash people to think its whats best and whats right. That is a world i'd hate to be in.



(Im sorry if i affended any one. I was not trying to. Just to state what i think. I hope you understand. )



I wish you well and have a great weekend. :)

Charmaine - posted on 06/05/2009

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Like everyone else, I was just stating my opinion. You might not make a careless decision to take your child out when they have a disease like that but a lot of people who choose not to vaccinate believe that it is no more serious than the common cold and that a child's immune system will just push through it. You are only one person Samantha, one of millions who choose not to vaccinate, not everyone has the same mind set as you. It would be a scary world if vaccines were never created, one that I would never want to live through myself. I've seen a child with whooping cough who ended up dying and it was one of the most painful things I have ever seen in my life.

Charmaine - posted on 06/05/2009

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Like everyone else, I was just stating my opinion. You might not make a careless decision to take your child out when they have a disease like that but a lot of people who choose not to vaccinate believe that it is no more serious than the common cold and that a child's immune system will just push through it. You are only one person Samantha, one of millions who choose not to vaccinate, not everyone has the same mind set as you. It would be a scary world if vaccines were never created, one that I would never want to live through myself. I've seen a child with whooping cough who ended up dying and it was one of the most painful things I have ever seen in my life.

Samantha - posted on 06/05/2009

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Charmaine-

Well you entitled to your opinion. But if my child had measles i wouldnt be dragging her around to everyones house and their grandmother. im sure you wouldnt as well. So for that situation you stated would happen. Im not going to argue.



I've done my research and not taken hear say.. like you say as well. Maybe you should inform yourself.



I hope you have a great weekend.. this is a touchy subject but i dont need to prove my knowledge cause i know what i know and if you cared maybe you would write me a personal note not openly state that we should be murders if a child died. im sorry but i have no respect for people like that. This was a nice post. Someone asked for advice i gave her some.



if you dont have anything nice to say.. DONT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. thats my opinion. :)

Charmaine - posted on 06/04/2009

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Quoting Shanna:

I think thats crazy! Its the people who do not get their children vaccinated that are going to bring back life-threatning diseases! My daughter has never missed one vaccine, and I would never allow that to happen. I am way to scared of her contracting something like mennengitis or mumps or whatever it may be. Seems WAY to risky to me! And as for no doctors and no medicine? I believe in doctos 100%, medicine - to be used when absolutely necessary, My daughter had never had a cold or a fever or a runny nose either until 2 days ago when she had a fever and a severe cold. I dont know about you, but when I feel absolutely horrible I will take an advil, and when my daughter was sick 2 days ago with a fever, I gave her some tylenol. You wouldnt bring your daughter to the hospital if, god forbid, she had a high fever? Or whatever the case may be...

By UNschooling do you mean homeschooling? Or no school?


I am with you entirely Shanna! This is crazy! All these people that choose not to vaccinate, have you not considered what sort of diseased world this would be if everyone adopted your practice?  I believe such a choice is selfish, and if you want this world to remain free of diseases that had been practically wiped out you can't expect other people to do all of the work!  Whilst vaccinating your children is currently a choice, by choosing not to vaccinate your children you are not only making a choice for yourself, but also for other people who have children who have not yet reached the age for certain vaccines.  If your child has measles and you expose them to an infant who has not yet reached the age to have the vaccine you are putting their life at risk, effectively taking away their choice!  What if that child then died because your child passed on a preventable disease? Wouldn't that make you a murderer?  I hardly think that Circle of Moms is the place to discuss whether to vaccinate or not given the lack of properly educated Medical Practitioners providing the advice.  My daughter gets a fever and a cold after her vaccination but to see her in agonising pain trying to "naturally" survive a devastatingly painful and preventable disease is not a choice for me.  I choose to vaccinate my baby because she is the most important person in the world to me and I could never stand to see her in such unnecessary.  For those of you who "choose" to not vaccinate, please ensure you are basing your decisions on properly researched medical information, not because "someone said this happened to a friend of their sisters".  You are risking the life of not only your child, but to those children around you who do not yet have a voice!

Stephanie - posted on 06/04/2009

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Oh Alicia thanks SO much, like Samantha said its awesome to do research and be open to it and its just the best when everyone does it respecting what the other side does :)

And wow Samantha you are my twin tonight!!! hahah I was going to quote the same part of Alycias post! hehehe How cool!!! :) I also loved that ending! So great to meet like-minded people!! :)

Samantha - posted on 06/04/2009

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Alicia- I do agree that "most" people turn this subject into my side is right or wrong. Its the wrong way to try to help people. Hence why i dont really reply to posts like this. I would rather not post about not vaccinating because i dont want to hear that im a bad mother. (yes i've heard it and i've had a doctor tell me it as well.) Because like you feel your making the right decision i feel im making the right decision for my family. I agree its important to do research and to ask questions. Im glad that you like the information that was given. I like to try to give actualy information or a website that goes straight to it. I have been given websites to go look at and get lost sometimes. So its nice to have a direct link or post of it.. :) Yes i agree with the other medicating and oh yea hand sanitizers.. I know someone who serilizes EVERYTHING in her house and she wonders why her son is sick.. Might be because he doesnt get in contact with germs.. Which is how you build up your immune system.. Well im glad your asking questions... Please continue to ask thats all i would suggest.. Knowledge is a wonderful thing to have.. :) Hope you have a great weekend that is coming up..

Alicia - posted on 06/04/2009

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Wow- you guys have given me a lot of reading to do. I appreciate the way you respectfully state your opinions and quote your resources. So many times this topic turns into an " I'm right and you're wrong" see saw game. I will definitely make the time to read the articles, and while I tend to be VERY medically based person, I do agree that we certainly over vaccinate, definitely over medicate with antibiotics, and please don't get me started on hand sanitizer- LOL!! Thanks for al the info- if I have any more questions, or comments, I will not hesitate to once again, ask a respectful question. Just because we may disagree on medicine doesn't make us auto-enemies. Joy to you and yours...

Samantha - posted on 06/04/2009

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Alycia- Im glad that you are doing natural things for you family. I am on my way to gather tons of information about natural remedies. Its amazing how everything can be treated naturally. Im sorry that you had encountered a stressful situation to loose your milk. Its wonderful that you found a pediatrician that respects your view on how to raise your son. Its very rare to find someone who is like that. :) I agree with your last statement, "I think it's great to meet other people who believe in living life the way it was given to us, so pure and waiting for us to use nature for what it's for. The world provides for us alone, more people just need to discover how to work with it and utilize what God has already given us!" Its very true if only more people would realize these things. :D

Alycia - posted on 06/04/2009

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Hi everyone! Well unfortunately I had to receive medication in the hospital through IV because I was group B strep positive so if I hadn't received it my son could have been sick after going through the birth canal. Also unfortunately I lost my milk from a stressful family situation and I was devestated when I could no longer provide the best for my son, it was a traumatic experience which made me quite upset. I may not be hardcore about everything but I do come from a family that practices natural medicine and my mother is actually a Reflexologist. Growing up I had severe health problems and we found out later on when we turned to natural medicine that the things I was being given by doctors was actually killing me. So no I don't believe in doctors and I do everything I can to take care of my family and my son naturally which I find more safe. I also make my sons food myself from organic products. I love the idea of having a garden of my own produce, I think I will start one!



My son has a pediatrician who respects my views on natural medicine and so I feel lucky that she discusses many different things we can do naturally to help my son with some issues he has.



I think it's great to meet other people who believe in living life the way it was given to us, so pure and waiting for us to use nature for what it's for. The world provides for us alone, more people just need to discover how to work with it and utilize what God has already given us!

Samantha - posted on 06/04/2009

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So my daughter has not gotten the polio vaccine. She probably wont be getting it, as she isnt going to be getting any more. From my 1st post. But I got some information for you about polio. :) I certainly have no problem with helping out and answering questions for any mother about vaccines. I would just prefer to not get into a big heated arguement. We feel we are making the best decision for our child and i know feel anyone who vaccinates is a bad parent and i would hope the others feel the same about me. I have done my research and i've seen a vaccine reaction in my child so i choose a different route then the normal doesnt mean that i dispise everyone. Its great to ask questions and to make an informed decision. I applaude you in stepping out and asking.. :D





POLIO


For further reading, see:


http://www.vaclib.org/basic/Neil_Z_Mille...


The Virus and the Vaccine by Debbie Bookchin and Jim Schumacher


http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web1....





From the Merck manual:





>90% of cases: A simple viral infection


-feels like the flu; nausea, vomiting, malaise, weakness


-symptoms develop 3-5 days after exposure


-recovery is within 24-72 hours


-lifetime immunity





~5% of cases: abortive poliomyelitis


-non-specific illness


-indistinguishable from any other virus


- lifetime immunity





~3% of cases: Non-paralytic polio


-onset up to 14 daysafter recovery of minor viral illness


-high fever, severe headaches, stiff neck


-asymetrical limb weakness, hyperesthesia / paresthesia in extremeties


-usually diagnosed as viral meningitis


-stmptoms last 2-10 days, followed by complete recovery and lifetime immunity





50% have complete recovery


Functional losses can improve >2years


The amount of paralysis present at 12 months is usually considered permanent








April 1955: Polio vaccine introduced to the market


1956: States reporting an increase of cases:


Vermont: 266% increase


Rhode Island: 454% increase


Mass.: 642% increase


Idaho and Utah ban use of vaccine because there had been no cases in those states until the vaccine was released.





SO, WHY WAS IT BEING REPORTED AS A SUCCESS?





1. New definition of the disease / new way to diagnose thedisease.





Before 1954, Polio was diagnosed if:


-Partial or complete paralysis was present in one or muscle groups.


-Paralysis detected in 2 exams, 24 hours apart.





After 1954, Polio was diagnosed if:


-One had residual paralysis 10-20 days and again at 50-70 days after the onset of the illness


SO, THE DIAGNOSIS ALONE PUT YOU INTO THE SMALLER CATEGORY





2. New definition of an epidemic





Before 1954: 6/100,000


After 1954: 35/100,000





SO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE MORE CASES OF A LESS LIKELY DIAGNOSIS TO SHOW AN INCREASE





The "decrease" was due to the way the data was reported and not due to the vaccine effects.





Source: The American Journal of Public Health Vol. 45, Sup, 1-63, 1955





"Since 1979, the only cases of polio in the US have been associated with the OPV. The western hemisphere was certified by the WHO as polio free in 1994 and no cases of wild polio have been reported since 1991."


Sources: Surgeon General David Satcher, MD


MMWR 1994; 43:720-2


JAMA, Jan. 20, 1999; vol, 281, no.3





BUT isn't polio just a plane ride away?





From 1980 to 1998 (18 years):


There were 6 cases of imported polio documented in the US. (one every 3 years)


The last reported case was in NYC in 1993





MMWR May 19, 2000 / 49 (RR05); 1-22





So why are we vaccinating every child (77,000 born in US every week) at 2, 4, 6, 12 months and age 5? what exactly are we trying to protect against?





From the package insert:


"Of the 127 cases of paralytic poliomyelitis reported in the US between 1980 and 1994, six were imported cases, two were "indeterminite cases" and 119 were vaccine associated paralytic poliomyelitis cases associated with the use of the live attenuated oral polio virus vaccine."


And we need to vaccinate every child born in the US why?





"In the US, 219 infants received three doses of a similar enhanced IPV at two, four and eighteen months."


-So why do they get it at 2, 4, 6, 12 months and age 5? It hasn't been tested for that.





"Because IPV was given at a different site but concurrently with Diptheria and tetanus toxoids and Pertussis Vaccine Absorbed (DTaP), these systematic reactions could not be attributed to a specific vaccine."


They are not going to find what they are not looking for. "There is no proof" is a true statement because they designed the studies in such a way that there could bo no conclusive proof.





Something else to consider. This vaccine has ONLY BEEN TESTED WITH DTaP. It has not been tested with any other vaccine.








If you have any other questions or anyone else has questions.. Please feel free to ask.. Im not shy about talking about it but i'd rather just not spark a heated arguement. :) I hope this helps and answers any questions you have about polio...

Stephanie - posted on 06/04/2009

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Hey Alicia thanks for your involvement! :) I think its great for people to ask and inquire about vaccines and its certainly not sparking any anger! :) Its great to debate.

Please take a few minutes today and look at these two articles I will post now:

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids...

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/vacc...

My views on the polio vaccine are that it was created to spread the virus even more. 80 percent of the deaths resulted from poor sanitation and the disease was slowing down and then the vaccine was introduced and it caused an uproar and spread new cases of the disease.

The vaccine was not the reason for the decrease in deaths, it was the change in sanitation. All the vaccines did was spread the virus that had just begun to die down. The vaccines were made from contaminated monkey tissue and it killed alot of people that normally wouldn't have died. The epidemic had already decreased by 80% before the vaccine. That made things worse. Now there are cases showing the vaccine has been linked to the beginning of many other diseases, some go as far as to say that it has been linked to the spreading of AIDS.

Here are two very important websites to check out about vaccines:

http://www.tetrahedron.org/index.html

http://thinktwice.com/

Alicia - posted on 06/03/2009

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As respectfully as possible, may I ask your views on the polio vaccine? I believe that everyone certainly has the right to their own opinion, and I do believe in education and research- I do vaccines with my child, but only give him one at a time, separated by at least a month. I just wonder how people who say that vaccines are evil feel about the polio vaccine? I truly say this with respect to your opinions, and am not trying to light up this board. Like said, I like to be educated, and hope that you guys can help me understand better. I understand if you don't want to get involved :)

Stephanie - posted on 06/02/2009

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So cool so cool. I love when I see truly wise people. Self educating is SO important.

You are leaps and bounds if your daughter knows she went in her diaper! Good job! :)

Samantha - posted on 06/02/2009

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Yea i read the book. :) I hear you about childrens education. I just feel that i want her to have the best education she can. I have researched vaccines before i had her and was "bullied" into getting them that day. And now since then i wont let anything like that happen to her again. Today hasnt been a great of day with the potty. I need to get cloth diapers and training pants to actually help with it. So she knows when she goes in her diaper and i will know better as well.



I take her health and min (my husbands as well) very seriously since i've been reading. I think there is so much information that is not given out to parents that is very important. Like the "diseases" vaccinate for.. ARENT deadly.. They can be treated at home. Its just the pharmacutical companies making them out to be these horrid things you dont want to catch. i wish more people were open minded about alot of things. But not alot of people are also open for change... And this life style defiently isnt fast food and soda pop and tons of sugar. Its a well diet and exercise and vitamins to stay health. :)

Stephanie - posted on 06/02/2009

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wow Im sorry to hear about Sadies reaction to the vaccines. Im glad that you and your husband decided not to give her anymore! Im so glad that she is still breatfeeding and so glad that she is seeing a chiropractor:)

And Im glad to see someone else who will be taking their childs education seriously theese days and doing something about it.

Have you heard of : http://www.diaperfreebaby.org/

Thats awesome that she went potty 5 times!!! I love hearing moms doing potty training early its so important. :)

Anyway heres that website again, Im sure you have seen it but in case you would love it. http://www.diaperfreebaby.org/

Samantha - posted on 06/02/2009

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Hello,

Well the last month of my pregnancy we had complications with low fluid and Sadies heart rate dropped. It was just a mess basicly. I was able to have her vaginally but i was induced.. But luckily I didnt get pictocin. As for my daughter. She had 3 vaccines at 2 months (i feel bad for it) and she had a reaction. Since those she's been sick. Not horribly but just keeps getting colds. Im not too worries though it will help her immune system. Since those 3 shots she has not had any more. She wont be having any more either. Her reaction she had was that she stopped smiling and sitting up. Basicly she regressed back to being like she was just born. I would try for hours to get her to smile. We have also for about 2 month have been going to the chiropractor and her health has gotten alot better actually. She has been getting adjusted since she was 8 months. IF i had know about it earlier she would have gone in MUCH sooner. He understands and agrees with no vaccinating.

My daughter as well is breastfeed. She eats food but doesnt eat alot of it. She defiently prefers momma's milk. :)

My husband and I have kind of talked about what we are doing for school but we know for a fact that she WONT be going to a public school or any of our children. It is very nice to know someone who also believes and understands reasons of why to do things differently then the norm these days.

We are also working on Infant Potty training. Its actually going very well. Yesterday she went potty in her potty seat 5 times. Better then none at all right?



I guess you could say i fall into the "crunchy" momma catagory. :) I have some people i know who think im "weird." I think i like the crunchy title better :D



I have heard about unschooling and read about it. I know theres are doctor in washington state who unschools her children.. But i havent looked to far into what kind of schooling im going to do.. :)

Stephanie - posted on 06/02/2009

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Corinne, Its great to meet you! That is so awesome that your daughter has never been sick! :) I hear you on having to pick and chose what to be crunchy on, but I think you are doing a great job, keep up the work:)
I love seeing Moms take their babies health into their own hands, thats awesome. And Im glad you have a little garden, thats great! :)


Shanna, Please take a couple minutes today and check out this link : http://thinktwice.com/ (just copy and paste that into your browser)

Again here it is: http://thinktwice.com/

There are alot... and I mean ALOT of misconceptions and MYTHS about vaccines its so important to educate yourself on them.

Again: http://thinktwice.com/

and again: http://thinktwice.com/

Please check it out! :) :)

I think hospitals are only good for absolute emergency situations like car accidents, where you need the hospital for a short while. But other than that, no thanks.

Well I honestly dont recall the last fever Ive had, but I know there are homeopathic remedies out there for everything, but more importantly is to know what the cause is and cure that and not just treat a symptom... but rather stay super healthy and do cleanses and you wont ever run into that.

Unschooling is homeschooling, but no curriculum. Following your own thing, doing what you want. I know we have ALOT of books and things we want our daughter to learn that she would never learn in school, and alot of things in school we would never want her to learn.

Shanna - posted on 06/01/2009

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I think thats crazy! Its the people who do not get their children vaccinated that are going to bring back life-threatning diseases! My daughter has never missed one vaccine, and I would never allow that to happen. I am way to scared of her contracting something like mennengitis or mumps or whatever it may be. Seems WAY to risky to me! And as for no doctors and no medicine? I believe in doctos 100%, medicine - to be used when absolutely necessary, My daughter had never had a cold or a fever or a runny nose either until 2 days ago when she had a fever and a severe cold. I dont know about you, but when I feel absolutely horrible I will take an advil, and when my daughter was sick 2 days ago with a fever, I gave her some tylenol. You wouldnt bring your daughter to the hospital if, god forbid, she had a high fever? Or whatever the case may be...



By UNschooling do you mean homeschooling? Or no school?

Corinne - posted on 06/01/2009

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Well, Olivia hasn't had any vaccines, and won't as long as possible. I may get them for her before she goes to school, but we will have to see when we get there.



I planned on a natural birth, but had a c-section when DD's heart rate was apparently too high. Don't get me started on that whole issue! It's too long to even get into how I feel about that. I do plan on trying for a VBAC, for sure.



We cloth diaper, she is breast fed, and she eats mostly organic. I have an organic veggie garden that is about to start producing so it will be much cheaper now!



I have to say, I am a lot less crunchy than I thought I would be. I find I have to pick and choose the important things, since money restraints just don't allow for me to have it all for her. Also, she does see a pediatrician, but so far has only had to see her for well visits. I do like knowing that we have a relationship with one in case I need one. DD has never been sick!



Anyhow, I am on the same page as you! I find that we "crunchy" moms are few nd far between!

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