Death penallty

Tah - posted on 06/17/2011 ( 39 moms have responded )

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Yay or nay?

Why or why not?

What crimes should it apply to??

Who should decide?

At what age should is to young to be sentenced to death???

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Tah - posted on 06/18/2011

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I think the young offenders act is there because at that age your brain doesn't work as an adults brain works. Some can't appreciate that a kick to the head really will kill you. Some, at that age can't appreciate the finality of death. I mean the shows and games that they watch and play nowadays, people die every episode. Even at 18 the brain hasn't fully matured. Should it be assessed on a case by case basis. I would hate to see a 19 year old on death row because of his 17 year old gf and mad parent..lol

[deleted account]

I would say yes if people could exercise a little common sense with it. I think we could do away with murderers but if we say yes to the death penelty for murderers what do you think will happen to that 5 year old that shot his abusive parent while trying to defend a sibling, stuff like that makes me hesitant to say yes for death penetly for sure. I would say yes to death penelty for sex offenders, child molestors do not deserve to be breathing, but what about situations where two consenting people have sex say an 18 year old with their 16 year old s/o who they've been with since grade school or something like that, parents don't like it report it and next thing you know the 18 yr old is dead and the 16 yr old is dealing with a really messed up mental state. And then of course there is always that one person who went to jail for something they didn't do and 20 years later they catch who really did it. I don't know I think the judicial system is flawed enough without them having the right to kill people. Get rid of all the evil people in the world yeah that'd be great, have a real deterent to prevent other people from committing crimes that would work wonders, but at the end of the day I think its good in theory but theres just too many variables to sign on for it. Lol I know personally if littering could be punishable by death the streets would be pretty squeaky clean but I couldn't sleep at night if I knew that that highschool kid who accidentally dropped his gum was facing being hanged.

So yes I think death penalty is a good idea IF our judges had some common sense and there was an age limit, and if it were only for cases where they absolutely know for sure the person is guilty with out a doubt.

Barb - posted on 06/17/2011

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Yay



Because there are 7 billion people in the world. It won't hurt our resources to do away with the ones who selfishly bring harm upon others.



I think it should apply to Sexual assualts, murder, and what the wall St CEO's and bankers did. Not minor fraud but scams and fraud that threaten our national security and livelihood.



I think deciding should be between the judges, the jury and the family of the victim.



Starting at 18.



I also think they should die the same way they killed someone else. Have done to them what they did to others.

Brie - posted on 07/10/2011

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well to be completely honest i don't know if i agree with the death penalty right away!! I am one of those people who believe in the cruel and unusual punishment that the USA is so against... i believe that the death penalty should eventually be carried out on rapists and murderers mainly... if it was a quick shot and no torture then fry them... but if there was torture or rape involved well then i think they should have it all done right back to them!! but make it slow and painful to the point they beg for death and then lock them in with prisoners who hate them and then eventually fry them! I feel people should have to experience what they put others through just so they can appreciate it. also i think just frying them is to easy.. truly i think we are just doing them a favor... but thats just me.. now if it was just robbery and nobody was physically hurt then no don't fry them.. maybe have a three strikes your out kinda thing i don't know.. i just think that death penalty for theft is over the top.. unless they killed or physically hurt someone... I think they should do a viewers opinion poll kinda thing... air the trial and those who watch should cast their votes and the jury will deliberate and then let the judge do real sentencing or whatever... I believe at 18 you are good enough to fry if you could hurt someone!!

Rosie - posted on 07/10/2011

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just went back and read a few responses, and i have to agree with tah on the age thing. there's a reason why we have laws protecting minors from sexual offenses (statuatory rape), a reason why we don't let them drive until a certain age, a reason why they can't drink or smoke until a certain age.
it boggles my mind how someone can be all upset that a 38 year old man goes and has consentual sex with a 15 year old, screaming "that poor baby" the whole time, and in the next breath want to sentence a CHILD as they would an adult if they commit a crime. their brains simply don't process things the way adults brains do. hell, i've seen it stated that it doesn't even happen until we're like 25 or something. i've NEVER understood trying a child as an adult.

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Teresa - posted on 07/10/2011

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I am for the death penalty.

For what crimes? Murder and rape for sure.

The law needs to prescribe who is eligible for the death penalty ( it does in the USA)

Age- anyone charged in a court of law as an adult



Amanda - I understand that it doesn't work as a deterrent but it rids society of its most dangerous elements. That's good enough for me.

Barb - posted on 07/10/2011

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I'm actually on both sides. *deep breath here*

A man is also in prison for committing a horrible crime. I think he should have been sentenced to death as well and many times i hope he doesn't make it out alive. My father died the day he told me what he did. I grieved for him for a long time, I grieved for the man that was my son's grandpa, who had walked me down the aisle, supported me, gave me a good education, rocked me to sleep at night singing to me that i was a precious jewel in the crown of God. That man is dead. I don't know the man who is in prison and i don't want to know him. I hope he never gets out.

Please don't think bad of me for what he did.. i never knew anything about the judicial system until he went. He had never been in trouble before except for a speeding ticket or 3. No one in my family had.

Tah - posted on 07/10/2011

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I think you have a unique point of view with this barb, being on the side people hope they never have to be on...in cases like bobs I say kill them. It's the cases where the evidence isn't clear cut that bother me knowing that all types of bias exist in the world that land innocent people in jail all the time.

Barb - posted on 07/10/2011

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Hey Amanda, i was agreeing with you when you said: "Personally, I like the idea of some scumbag murderer rotting in prision getting shanked and butt-raped for the rest of his natural life. "

Those are all your words, not mine. I don't care if you think i have sick fuck thinking, but hell woman, own your words at least.

And yes i think they should be killed to keep it easier on the family as well as save us millions of dollars a year.

Everytime they go to court and appeal, that family is reliving the death of their loved one over and over again, instead of getting to celebrate their life and move on from the horrible events that robbed them of their loved one. That is sheer torture through no fault of their own to have to do that.

Dyan, right now, it is ultimately up to the judge to decide.. at least here in Indiana. But the victims family gets to give letters and statements at the sentencing hearing that may or may not influence the judge's decision.

Rosie - posted on 07/09/2011

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i'm for it. i can't stand the thought of murderers getting to live with their cable and 3 squares while they took away the life of someone elses loved one. they also forever altered their own families lives, along with their victims.
only 1rst degree murder with conslusive DNA evidence should qualify for it.
who should decide? i'm confused? doesn't a judge decide?
at what age is to young? under 18.

[deleted account]

bs on agreeing to disagree. this is a debate not a tea party.

yes, I am against the death penalty as stated before.
1. I fear an innocent will be found too late
2. I wish for long and torturous lives for those truly guilty

you will always win if debating me on this one, I know. what about those tortured and then found innocent. or what about our prisons being lax.

there is no logic for me here. just that I wish those that cause suffering to suffer. and I don't feel good about that. but I feel it.

Amanda - posted on 07/05/2011

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We will have to agree to disagree. (butt raping a serial killer is wrong, and no I don't condone it, it just happens. Although, most death row prisoners aren't in the general population, and don't get much ass action. So much for making a joke about it. Forced sodomy isn't funny anymore? Geez...)

So, I think killing is wrong, and I don't like the government do it in my name. Fine.

You think killing is justified because its cheaper and makes victims' families feel better.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Barb - posted on 07/05/2011

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You don't condone it? Didn't you say you personally like the idea?

It is a deterrent in that killing the person will keep them from killing anyone else. I agree it won't keep people from murdering because they don't think they will be caught, therefore they don't think of the consequences. But what is the alternative to death? Life. Life in prison that we have to pay for? A life of being shanked and raped, living in fear?

I say it's kinder to kill them.

The families of murder victims suffer each time the murderer tries to get out on appeal, why should these obviously innocent people have to continually suffer? Is that also not cruel and inhumane?

Why does the murderer who took someone's life without a trial or a chance to appeal, get all the benefits and rights he took away from his victim?

Amanda - posted on 07/05/2011

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Well, I don't condone the shanking and butt raping, but that's what happens in prision. At least if you are innocent in prison, you have the chance at some point to be re-tried and released. ( and your butt-rapist prosecuted.)

But, let's take your premise that the only people executed are guilty. There are 1,000 witnesses who saw them do it, there is DNA evidence, and they confessed. Okay. What lesson is executing someone supposed to teach? That killing is wrong? 'Don't kill because killing is wrong and the state will kill you to show how wrong killing is.'? It is circular logic. Killing is wrong, whether it is a mother killing her child, a serial killer chopping people up, or the State executing a convicted criminal. Killing is killing, and killing is wrong.

One cannot even argue that it is a deterrent. First of all the numbers don't back that up. Statistics show the opposite is true. Plus, it is just plain illogical. The death penalty does not act as a deterrent because, murder is committed for three different resons. Passion, Profit, and Compulsion. Passion crimes can't be deterred, they are irrational and spur-of-the-moment. No punishment can deter that. People don't weigh risk vs. reward when is a frenzy. The people who kill for profit do it very rationally, and are convinced they will not be caught. And then there are crimes by compulsion. A sexual criminal kills a child, this cannot be deterred, it's a compulsion, a mental defect, if you will.

But, I'm aware I am in the minority. Most American feel that killing a human being can be justified....

Barb - posted on 07/05/2011

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I do have to say, i also like the idea of scumbag murders getting shanked and ass raped for a long and painful time, however, isn't that also cruel and inhumane? and what if the person getting shanked and ass raped is innocent? isn't that also sick fuck thinking?


Again, death penalty for people who were seen doing the murder, or have admitted to it.

Amanda - posted on 07/05/2011

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Also... the death penalty does not work as a deterrent.

It can be incredibly inhumane and a painful way to die. (I know someone out there is saying "Good. I hope that rapist/murderer suffers." Read your Constitution, folks... no "cruel and unusual punishment".)

Sure, most people on death row are guilty. But what about that one guy who isn't? If you are okay with murdering an innocent for the privlage of murdering the guilty, you are one sick fuck.

Personally, I like the idea of some scumbag murderer rotting in prision getting shanked and butt-raped for the rest of his natural life.

Amanda - posted on 07/05/2011

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I don't condone the killing of a human being no matter how much of a scumbag they are. Simple.

Tah - posted on 06/26/2011

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I often wonder how 2 insane people meet or if they feed off of one another..you had video, so yes, kill her.

Barb - posted on 06/26/2011

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See, i'm death penalty for Homolka. She raped, tortured and killed 3 innocent people, and admitted to it. If not her part in the killing, but of not stopping her husband from committing these acts and not reporting him for doing it. I bet she kills again and then everyone who let her out will have blood on their hands.

She was released July 4th, 2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Homol...

[deleted account]

again...no time to fully read but will tonight. bleeding heart me. and canadian. against death penalty. would rather see them suffer in prison for rest of lives. that said we'd probably need an overhaul of what prisons are but am not an expert by any means on this. anyone familiar with karla homolka or scarborough rapist (canadian). awful awful crimes commited and many young girls tortured and killed. she gets off with reduced sentence and gets that eddicashun while in prison. kaleigh wasn't she even released?

promise to read this one tonight so not talking through ass.

Barb - posted on 06/20/2011

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I don't know if it would be a deterrent or not. I guess one way of looking at it is to check out Texas's murder rate. They have the harshest penalties for murder. If two or more people saw you commit the crime, you go to the front of the line to be executed.



http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/data/...



Here is a chart that shows Texas is ranked #15 out of 50 states for having the most violent crime per capita.



Other articles have blasted Texas that the harsh penalties don't keep people from committing the crime. I'm okay with that.



I don't expect laws to keep me safe. Safety is really an illusion. What i have learned over the last year is that justice and punishment are two separate things. Justice is what the lawyers and the perpetrators agree with. Punishment might be their time in prison, but it doesn't equal justice for us. Their families get to see them, talk to them, get feed back from them, send christmas presents they know will be opened. Visit on father's and mother's day.



To me it doesn't matter if it is a deterrent or if they even thought of the consequences before committing the crime. Most people don't think of the consequences because they don't think they will be caught.



For me the consequences are real justice. No, the consequences won't bring the victim back, but it should ensure it never happens again. And putting them to death will make sure it never happens again.



And again, i'm meaning where it is beyond a reasonable doubt that they killed someone. Where two or more people saw them do it. Like in the Gabrielle Giffords shooting. There is no doubt he killed that little girl and the other innocent bystanders.



Why should we want to clothe, feed, medically care for, and house this person? Why should we provide them with an education we couldn't afford to give to our own family member they killed?



It's not right, and it's not justice.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 06/19/2011

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Yay

Why?
Not everyone deserves to live after the horrible crimes they commit.

Peers should decided

18 and up

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 06/19/2011

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Yay

Why?
Not everyone deserves to live after the horrible crimes they commit.

Peers should decided

18 and up

[deleted account]

Oh is that you there, hey Tah! lol yeah I'm horrible in debates I'm a pathological fence-sitter tisk tisk.

Tah - posted on 06/19/2011

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Also kaleigh, a teen that's not drunk probably doesn't think that far, let alone a drunk one. That's why in most cases there should be a difference, a teen isn't called an adult for a reason. That is because hey aren't.

Tah - posted on 06/19/2011

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We could just agree to disagree...but this a debate forum...lol, so we debate...lol. I never said you were a bad person for your beliefs. I also never said people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. Heck yes a 16 year old should be held responsible for his actions. I'm just not sure he should receive the same punishment as a fully grown man. As I stated, you can't have it both ways. Tell me I'm not old enough to do other things because of my mental state and then turn around and treat me as if I do understand by giving me adult penalties. It just doesn't make good sense.

Kaleigh, I am on the fence as well. I'm sure there are innocent people who have and will receive it, is that blood I want on my hands. Then sometimes I listen to or read the news and I would love to pull the switch on some of these people..or really..pull it a little then stop....throw some water on them, pull it some more then stop..let the victims family member come over and pull it a little..kick them..then stop..lol. So I understand why you are on the fence cause that me next to you.

[deleted account]

I get what both of you are saying and I'm still on the fence. I agree with Michelle that if we held everyone accountable for their actions the amount of crime would drop but I still couldn't handle hearing about a child being given the death penalty or something like that. Yep I think the bar should be set and then they should handle it on a case by case basis making sure to take in the age and circumstances. It drives me nuts when I hear certain things like a friend of my hunni's was charged with attempted manslaughter or something because he was drunk and thought he'd go around stealing stopsigns. The idiot teen was surprised they wanted jail time for a petty theft...it wasn't just theft though it was stopsigns what if someone had crashed and died because he had stolen them? Didn't think about that, how many drunk teens would? Ah but why was he drunk under age to begin with and roaming around the streets while intoxicated? Anyway he ended up getting a few months in jail and probabation because the fact was you can't send a kid to jail for what might of happened and didn't, but what kind of lesson does that teach? its okay to pull stupid reckless shit we'll wait until you actually kill someone before we do anything about it. Do I think he should have been put to death for it though, no way. So as much as I agree that when you put yourself in certain situations you are responsible for what happens I do get that sometimes people aren't capable of thinking things through that far.

If we run out of milk and its late and I decide to run to the store while my hunni is home with the kids am I not assuming all responsability for what happens while I'm out. What if someone attacks me or tries to rape me and I defend myself and they end up dead in the struggle without me using any excessive force or anything like that? Should I be sent to the gas chamber because I tried to defend myself, I mean a judge would see that as I was the idiot that left my house after dark right? I put myself in a situation where I could have been attacked and now I'm a murderer the same as any other. Scary thought.

Michelle - posted on 06/18/2011

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Like I said, I respect your opinions, and your way of thinking. I just think society makes too many excuses for peoples behaviour. Whether they intended to do it or not, whether they fully understand the consequences or not...they should be held accountable for those actions. Example, a 16 year old gets behind the wheel drunk, kills someone in a drunken crash. Of course he thinks he's invincible, of course he thinks it'll never happen to him...I have seen plenty of grown men and woman who think the same way. Whether a fully grown adult, or teenager, they CHOSE to get behind that wheel intoxicated. Whether you are a teen or an adult, you are responsible for your actions, not what you think your actions may or may not do. I just can't agree with the Young Offenders Act, and truly believe in the Death Penalty. That doesn't make me a bad person for my beliefs, nor do I think badly of you for your opinions, and beliefs. Those are yours, and I respect that. So, we can just agree we disagree!!! Have a great night!

Tah - posted on 06/18/2011

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I would have thought the same thing a few years ago, I'm not saying they they don't know right from wrong. I'm saying that adolescents don't think rationally..that's not me., that's all my psyche classes. I used to think my teenager was out his mind when I was asking him to explain himself...those classes turned my hair back from gray to reddish brown because his excuses were worse than the act..lol. Right from wrong is one thing. Understanding fully the consequences is quite another. Some don't fully understand the finality of death or fully understand that they aren't invincible. That's why they make the choices they do and are in many cases NOT treated as adults, because they aren't. It's a reason we don't let 14 year olds drive and drink...their brains are still developing, they don't fully understand and we can't have it both ways. You a tent mature enough to drink, drive, vote eye, but you understand full well the full consequences, in every aspect, of fighting and kicking people while are down. Now, I wad a bad girl, vie kicked some people and I'll tell you at that age I did think I was invincible and I didn't ever want to kill anyone, didn't mean I couldn't have with one misplaced kick whether I wanted to or not. Now as a mom and in what I do I have a better understanding of how children think and deal accordingly. Now house arrest..pish tosh, I would have wanted him to spend time in juvenile detention until at least 18 with therapy and rehab but I don't think he should have been given life or death

Michelle - posted on 06/18/2011

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While I get what you are saying Tah Dula, I can only agree to a point. My children are 9 and 11, and know the difference between right and wrong. They know that violence can lead to death whether it is intentional or not. I however, do NOT agree with the Young Offenders Act. At what point is a person responsible for his/her actions. Giving them the knowledge that they can take a life or can put their hands on someone in violence, and there is no serious consequence is NOT the answer. I believe if you start with one (giving them either the death penalty, or life in prison), many others may think twice before hurting someone else!

Tah - posted on 06/18/2011

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I personally know someone who did five years for a robbery he didn't commit. The victim came to court and said it wasn't him. The so-called friend who originally came to court to testify against him called him said, I'll tell the truth before the trial, then came in answered "I do not recall to every question when reminded of his testimony..so he could tell the truth, but not get charged with perjury. Of course he was one of the ones the victim DID identify. Another witness came and said, he left the area at least 2 hours before the robbery took place. the judge looked at him, said "you are a menace, I think the victim is mistaken, and the 2 witnesses are lying so you don't get in trouble 20 years for strong-arm robbery serve at least 5 and remain on probation for the remainder of 15 years." I almost went into labor when I heard that and saw his face being led away. While in there, he got his GED since he was only 17, came out, enrolled in college and has job and car. The guy who did it....ran around the neighborhood bragging that he sent someone else up for his crime...I know this person dearly so I get exactly what Kaleigh is saying.

Barb - posted on 06/18/2011

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Murder isn't always murder. There are degrees of murder. Murder where it's an accident, murder where it is self defense, murder where it is intentional, murder to cover up a crime. There is also manslaughter, which is a lesser charge.

When i say "murder" i'm meaning the people that intentionally set out to kill someone who wasn't doing anything wrong. Or murder someone to cover up another crime or during the act of a crime. Like they went to rob the gas station and the gun accidentally went off and now the poor guy who was just doing his job behind the counter is dead.

The people who commit the murder would also have to be competent. They would have to know what murder was, what they had done, what the consequences are.

Michelle - posted on 06/18/2011

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Barb - Oh my gosh...that is absolutely HORRIFYING! Where is the justice in that? I just don't understand. The way I see it, a person gives up all rights when they commit a serious/federal crime. If they choose to do something against the law, why are there laws to protect that person? It just makes no sense to me what so ever. But even still...at least they spent some time in jail. This boy, had a bracelet on his ankle and lived at home with his parents for 18 months. In which he was only allowed to go to school. I am absolutely horrified at our laws here in Canada. Teenagers will look you right in the eye and say "Yea? What are you gonna do about it?". And they know, legally, there is nothing we can do. It's horrifying, they have no consequences for their actions. Spare the rod, spoil the child...There is sooo much truth in this saying!

Barb - posted on 06/18/2011

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Everytime i see this thread title i'm reminded of a number of years ago. We were in Minnesota at the fishing cabin. I was doing dishes and listening to talk radio. The topic was the death penalty. This little old lady called in, and with her sweetest grandma voice said; "I agree with the death penalty, i just think it should be more painful"

Michelle, i agree with the age thing, although, for murder here in Indiana, they have been known to try teenagers as adults, as young as 13. Then they get the same penalty as an adult.

Back in `92 there was a case where 4 girls got together, ages 17, 16, 15, and 15, kidnapped, tortured, raped, beat, stabbed, and set on fire a 13 year old girl while she was still alive.

One girl was sentenced to 20 years, only served 8, Another girl was sentenced to 60 years and only served 14, the other two girls were sentenced to 60 years and will be eligible for parole in 2020. So will only have served 28 years of a 60 year sentence.

The girl they killed will never get a sentence reduction.

Michelle - posted on 06/18/2011

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YAY,
Keeping murderers, rapists, child molesters in prison for 25 to life is soooo costly. And why? Who was there to protect the innocent? These prisoners collect welfare, pensions...for what? They are in prison. They also can get university degrees, get better meals than some. And who's paying for it? The tax payers. The dealth penalty would be less costly. And it would get these criminals out of the system. I think if you are old enough to commit a serious crime, then you are old enough for the dealth penalty. In Canada, there is a young offenders act, which is basically an excuse for these kids between the ages of 12 and 18 to do whatever they want, and there are no real consequences. A 14 year old beat a kid to death by giving him kicks to the head. This kid got house arrest. I couldnt believe it...HOUSE ARREST? He murdered a boy, he may not have planned to actually kill him, but if you take the boots to someone's head, what do you think is going to happen? I think we need a stricter justice system, and definately the death penalty for both teenagers and adults alike. All actions should have consequences!!!

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