Ban OVER for women on navy subs
MOST HELPFUL POSTS
Amanda - posted on 05/02/2010
I think women either need to not be on subs, or have their own. And no, it's not because I think my husband is going to cheat on me, although the chances of that happening WILL raise up quite a bit for submariner's marraiges in general(which isn't exactly a needed help, divorce rates are ridiculous for military in general). I don't see why a woman would even WANT to be on a submarine for one, men are nasty lol... my husband tells me about some of the pranks they play on each other and things, and I wouldn't want to be in that close of confinement with them for 3-6 months at a time. Nooo way. The whole cheating thing is stupid... if your husband is gonna cheat on you, he's gonna cheat on you. The women left at home have WAY more opportunities to cheat on their husbands than the men have to cheat on their wives. I don't take that opportunity, and I don't think my husband ever will.
Just because women CAN do anything men can, doesn't mean they NEED to. Just as much as men CAN do anything women do(with the exception of giving birth apparently), but they don't need to either. Some things should be just a guy thing, just as some things should be just a girl thing.
Cassie - posted on 05/08/2010
My husband is a submariner and I personally have only met one woman that was for it and one guy who was for it ( I think he was more devil's advocate then really caring). Yes it's going to happen, boomers then the Virginia class. I'm not worried so much about the cheating factor because as previously stated it's going to happen on land or water if your husband is set on it. I have absolute faith in him. What I don't want to happen is to have his career jeopardized because a female didn't like something that went on. These are really close quarters and someone will get touched wrong, spoken to in a crude manner, or not promoted as quickly and a sexual harassment suit will be up. Women aren't held to the same physical standards as men in the military. There's a whole secondary set of numbers for PRT's and the weight they can pull. I think they should be treated 100% equal and perform to the same standards as the guys because they have to be strong to work on subs. As for the pregnancy issue, I asked a senior chief female who was for it and she said that they can stay on the sub for awhile but eventually she will have to come off. What if this puts my husband port and starboard watches for a whole deployment because a female got pregnant. That's brutal on the guys and lowers their moral. I think the first few waves of females will be the "GI Janes" of the Navy but the problems will come just like they did when women got on surface ships. I just can't support something that has so many factors that can go bad.
Jeska - posted on 05/03/2010
I am ALL for women being able to do things that men can...but this just makes me laugh. MAYBE its possible to do this on boomers but they are kidding themselves if they think they can remodel a fast attack sub so that females can be on them. For one, the sub is already small enough as is..there is NO WAY they can remodel them unless they start from scratch to accommodate female berthings and female heads. Also, being in that close quarters there is bound to be some kind of hokey pokey going on between the males and females. And what do they expect to do if a female becomes pregnant? They can't jeopardize a mission just to get a female off board because she wound up pregnant. There whole idea is to be underwater...where NOBODY knows where they are...and yet they are just gonna pop up just to let ONE (or multiple) females off because they got pregnant? Sorry...I just don't see this happening.
My friend and I discussed this and that's her response above and I completely agree with it. I'm all for women doing the same things too but like Amanda stated above me, it would be best if they designated subs for just women. My husband and a lot of the guys on his boat are against it too. They all said they joined a sub to get away from women not to get even closer and stuck with them for months at a time, lol.
Stephanie - posted on 09/21/2012
hygene! we have holes.. and periods and bleed. we MUST have access to bathe or we will get infections.. penissses dont get utis or yeast infections. and men dont really need underware. also.. it is proven that men will act stupid and put themselves in un necessary danger for a female. and.. rape.. if there are men and women in tight quarters bad things are bound to happen.. lastly. can a 120 lb woman cary a 220lb battle buddy out of a bad situation.. hells no.. i do not think so. it is a bad idea and just because women have equil rights doesnt mean we should take advantage and end up getting others hurt. i wouldnt do it thsts for sure.
Lisa - posted on 09/11/2012
Wow, the question was about woman on subs and the comments are worried about cheating and getting prgnant. LOL. I am a sub wife and I have NO problem if a woman is on a sub. Woman can do the same job as a man it is about the JOB and that is what alot of these comments are missing. It seems as if alot of you are insecure in your marriage to think that your spouse will cheat on you or not. If your spouse is going to cheat then he will cheat regardless if he is on a sub with woman or a man. Yes, I said man!! Trust me I AM A SUB WIFE!!!! It is equality and serving the country. The only issue I see is that it will be a little time consuming because woman will have to certain times for the restroom and shower times. FYI woman are already on subs and there have not been any issues so far. So to say woman can not serve on a sub, gay personal serve on a sub. But I am sure you do not have a problem with that.
Ashley - posted on 08/26/2012
lol I'll believe it when I see it. They said it was over the year I went in 2007. If it does happen it's going to take years. BTW as a woman who served on a carrier, there is no way on God's green earth I woul EVER want to be on a Sub. Being on a carrier was bad enough.
Sandy - posted on 08/18/2012
I think it's a wonderful and equal advancement opportunity for women in the Navy. The only prohibition that I think should be instated is a ban on pregnant submariners. The risk is too high for premature birth and other complications due to changes in pressure.
Amanda - posted on 05/19/2010
Yeah it must be that we're all just insecure and think our husbands are going to cheat on us, because thats the only reason a woman could possibly argue that their husbands don't need to pick up the slack for women.
I might not be down there but my husband will be and I'd rather he have men that can do the job and be held to the same standards as he is, and not have to worry about some woman not being able to do a job when needed and my husband doesn't make it back and I have to be a widow because women feel they need to do everything men do.
Amy - posted on 05/18/2010
i dont think there will be rapes going on at all. these men have somuch to loose if they do any of that. on our ship a man and a woman got caught fooling around in the server room and they got sent to captains mast for it. and i dont thnk a women only sub is a good idea either. because eventually all their periods would syncronize and be at the same time and there would be way to many people being burried when they got back lol.
Ashley - posted on 05/18/2010
can you say gang rape?? *NOT SAYING THE MILITARY IS LIKE THIS* just not a good idea!
ok being in iraq and on a sub is 2 different things! you are not put in a small area with all these men.. and my husband is army and my father in law is navy so i do know the difference....
Andrea - posted on 05/17/2010
Funny, I served in the Army for 5 years and only in Iraq did I ever have separate sleeping quarters. I slept in Conexes with the guys, sometimes in the same truck, or in a tent. I was usually the only female, a few times there were others. Guess what, again the guys did not try anything with me. Some were married, some weren't. I was not on a ship with a bathroom, I had to pee behind a truck, or when someone was nice enough, they held up a poncho for my privacy. Also in garrison, I did not have a separate bathroom at work. I had to change a sign, and make sure there were no guys in the bathroom. It's what you deal with in the military. All of you spouses that are making up excuses for a woman not being able to be on a sub, have only one reason. You say you are not concerned about your husband cheating then why do you care? You are not down there, so leave it
K. - posted on 05/15/2010
Oh and Shelly, getting pregnant on a sub is a lot different than getting pregnant in Iraq. Exposing unborn babies to radiation at such a close range can't be good for them I would think. And subs are called the "Silent Service" for a reason. They have to go underwater very very quietly, and stay there very very quietly. To have to surface to airlift a pregnant woman off would defeat the whole purpose. They can't just pop into the nearest port and catch the next flight home. It's not the same so comparisons shouldn't really be made. And if women are capable of doing anything that men can do why hasn't something as simple as the PRT standards been changed yet? Just curious.
Ericka - posted on 05/15/2010
Thanks, Shelly! We talk about this a lot. I if I have a concern with my husband and my job I tell him and we discuss it. Most of the problems that happen happen because of lack of communication. I think it'll work and I think the ladies who are worried about their spouses/boyfriends need to tell them their concerns and talk about it.
I'm proud of the middies getting ready to go to Nuke school! Good for them!
Shelly - posted on 05/15/2010
I am an Army veteran and I see no reason why women can't serve on the subs with the men! And I read somewhere about this is why women dont serve in the infantry! No this is not the case at all its sanitary reasons. On the subs the resources will there for a woman to clean up especially when her friend is there to visit! The infantry is also much more strenouis on the body then serving on a sub with Navy! Women's hips are not made to hump around that 100 lb ruck sack all day for sometimes what would be weeks on end. I dont see that happening on a sub. And if the concern is the pregnancies, omg, that happens everywhere. Women were coming home from Iraq pregnant! It's going to happen regardless of where you are. Any situation men and women are co-habitating things happen. For those of you who this is going to effect you need to be secure in your marriage and trust your wife or husband. If you aren't I suggest alot of counseling and praying. But just remember if the infidelity happens it's not because women are on subs it's because your marriage was already in danger. I am totally for women joining the subs. As for men being dirty well ok if you haven't had a brother or your not married then you may have alittle bit of a hard time.
I think all in all the men are the ones that are going to be needing alot more EO classes and I do foresee more EO complaints going through the Navy! But again that is seen in all jobs across the board.
WTG Ericka!! If more couples had this attitude this wouldn't even be an issue!
Antonia - posted on 05/15/2010
I have been reading all of the comments posted here, some for and some against women on Navy Subs. Women are currently serving on Navy Ships. For those of you who argue that women are on Navy ships and that women should be treated equally, may I point out one thing. On an Navy Ship, there is enough space, for a seperate Women's berthing and shower set up to accomedate women serving on the ship. Not only is a Sub closer quarters, the present design of a Navy sub does not allow for seperate sleeping accomedations. Even if women saw the front lines, they would be entitled to seperate sleeping tents back at base camp. I personally do not think either gender should be subjected to the harrassment or potential unwanted advances that could come from having everyone all sleeping together in the same berthing area. I have not read the fine details regarding the ban being lifted on subs, but I doubt the Navy is going to redesign their subs to immediately accomedate seperate sleeping areas for women.
As far as the whole argument for cheating goes. Having women with the men on deployment, be it sub, ship or otherwise has no bearing on the simple fact that the women are easily accessible or in close proximity. I am a Navy wife, and my husband just finished up 3 years on ship duty. During that time he has been on 4 seperate deployments, 2 six month and 2 3 month deployments. I did not have any concern or worry that my husband would "cheat" on me with any of the women on ship, just as the thought of him cheating in port has never crossed my mind. Bottom line, men or women who cheat will find a way to cheat regardless of the circumstance, living and working together for extended periods of time does not automatically promote extra-marital activities or tempt a man or woman who has no inclination to cheat. That's where the trust factor comes in to play. Bottom line, no one can make anyone's spouse/significant other cheat. The choice always lies with the person who is a active participant to the "crime."
Mona - posted on 05/14/2010
Oh yes I am totally against my daughter being able to do her job, because some people may have dirty little minds and want to say she will cause "problems". We all know that men and women can't be equal partners because the men have to watch out over the women, or the women are just there for decoration! REALLY!!! are we still having this conversation now?
Vette - posted on 05/12/2010
.If a woman can join the Navy she should have to do sub duty as well. We should not get to pick and choose what we do when we are military. We are supposed to be treated the same. It isn't fair to ask for differential treatment. Sign the line do the time. I am speaking as vet who would have willing given her life on the front line had I been permitted.
Have a great day!
if the guys cant even do some of it why are they on there? if they can barely lift it then really they have no room to talk about a woman not being able to. theres other jobs other than heavy lifting. the heavy lifting has nothing to do with it. theres many jobs other than the lifting.
its not lifting things or the job duties thats an issue, it all boils down to them being together and cheating. if its not cheating then why an issue? and the spouses have no right to even complain bc they have nothing to do with anything really so they have no right to even put in input bc it does not involve them personally.theres no lifting on subs anyways, its all done by pullies and what not so they really dont lift stuff.
Cassie - posted on 05/11/2010
Everyone keeps mentioning the cheating. That's not what worries the guys or what they even care about. They have a physically demanding job and women aren't held to the same standards. Ever person in a division is critical because there are so few of them. I don't know of a single woman who can lift some of the heavy equipment they have. Some of the guys I know can't do it. That's probably the biggest issue that I've heard from the submariners on my husband's boat.
why not? they serve together in iraq and other places. they work together on base. i dont see a problem with it. they are always together no matter where they are working together. they are on the subs yes, woman have every right and if they are going to cheat they will on a sub or not. they really dont even have time to cheat as they are always working and they are separated. theres always cheating. i read where woman were so upset the men will cheat. do they not cheat when the men are gone? yes! i dont think the spouses have any right talking about cheating when it's a huge thing that happens on both ends. if you don't trust the person enough to be on a sub with the opposite sex or work or even deploy with the opposite sex they shouldnt be together at all. thats where trust comes into play.
its like saying woman shouldnt join the military because its a mans job. its not just a mans job. and people get pregnant in iraq to. they have sex when they are deployed so its not like it would happen on a sub. i think its turning into a sexist issue and woman have every right to be on a sub.
its like men do womans jobs all the time and no one ever sais anything. so hows this different?
Monica - posted on 05/11/2010
at first, i totally was all for women being able to serve in the subs along side the men but i feel this is going to be a can of worms. its constantly some issues w/ either misconduct or hearsay. it makes it hard for the rest of the good women & men to do what their there to do sometimes. i'm still happy for the women that the ban is going to be over but i see some shady waters ahead
Maria Fernanda - posted on 05/11/2010
i am all for equality but this i think is a really bad idea so i say no no no no, not because men will cheat on wife's fiancees or girlfriends because if a man is set on cheating it will happen anywhere. But rape is already such a problem in the military can you imagine there 141 crew members on submarine, the will always be more males than females and you have to remember that not all crew members are married or in a relationship, i've heard about gang banging that goes on on navy ships can you imagine how mush worse it can be on submarine what if there is only 1 female to 140 men the temptation is to big. and also there's those females that will say terrible lies about the male crew member or members. unless the whole crew is female this is a really bad idea.
Amy - posted on 05/07/2010
men are going to cheat weather stuck on a sub with women or going into a port and getting waisted. jsut like tonight on my husbands ship a bunch of the men didnt think twice about it. and ya i was wondering why my husband charged a hotel room on my credit card but he also charged it with like 10 other married men just so they could use the free wifi there to call their wives i talked to him ALL night and then when he finally did have to go back to the ship he called from the ship to tell me goodnight. u just have to have some faith in our men
Patty - posted on 05/06/2010
And FYI I am former navy and my husband is still active duty former submariner and HE and a lot of his friends just care that the job gets done right. As for an all female sub, I think the idea af 150 women stuck under the water together is more explosive than co-ed but maybe you are all looking at it from the wrong perspective. Women who join the military atre not (in general) cut from the same frilly pink fabric as many other women. you say "men are nasty and do crazy pranks" I loved that stuff. Whatever your opinion is you need to get over it. It's happening and if you keep putting them down you are part of the problem. Don't you think that a white person once said "Why do black kids need to share schools with white kids...can't they just have their own."
Patty - posted on 05/06/2010
I say yes yes yes. Why should a woman not be given the opprtunity for the unique community and commraderie of the submariner world. I would have loved to be on a sub when I served but was not given the chance. Why on earth would it bother you? How is it wrong to open the door to women? The first two officers have been extensively screened to see that they will be able to handle the inevitable pressure and stress brought on them by ignorant people who say no to them for no real reason. If your husband worked any where else he would work with women. Why don't you think its a good idea?
Kim - posted on 05/05/2010
I think it is going to be an added stress to the men serving on subs and these men DO NOT need any extra stress added. My husbands job consists of 4 jobs on a surface ship. I have no worries about my husband cheating but I do have concerns over his safety. If the Navy wants to have women on subs then they need to be completely redesigned from scratch or have separate subs just for women. Honestly I don't know why a women would want on a sub to catch scabies, lice and/or crabs bc you live and share racks with the other guys which may or may not shower on a regular basis.
Belinda - posted on 05/04/2010
I dont know a lot about the Navy but I dont really see a big deal over it. I mean they are just working on a boat, women work and go to school with men all the time, and if they are going to cheat they dont need a sub for that..Now I understand that some men join the Navy to get "away" from women, ok we all need our space every now and then, but that doesnt make it fair to exclude women from a job just bc the men want it to be to themselves..And the thing about getting pregnant--that could happen anywhere not just on the sub, women DO deploy with men (in most jobs) and Im sure someone has fooled around while being deployed, it doenst make it right but Im just saying it could happen over in Iraq or Afgahistan too..For the question about they infantry---my husband is Army and was infantry (but is in the middle of mos change, due to an injury), and he said the main reason for women not being aloud to be infantry is due to sanitary precautions. When he was deployed they did NOT get to take a shower everyday, he said sometimes they only got to take one 1-2 times a month, they had lack of water supply where they where, so they had to use baby wipes to clean themselves for the most part, and its bad enough smelling a grungy guy who hasnt showered and been properly taken care of but to have a girl (who gets monthly visits every month) that is just gross. so its a sanitary precaution and due to that can cause infection(if not properly taken care of).
Auri - posted on 05/04/2010
Heres a question Andrea. Why isn't it that females can't be in infantry? Im an army wife but dont know much about anything other than my husbands mos. and I never served in the Navy but i sure do have a lot of friends in the navy, army, and marines. And it would be surprising to a lot of wives how some husbands once they get off port they no longer think they are married. Not so much rumors when you are getting hit on by so many married men in the service. to everyone who really trusts their husbands thats awesome because so do i. Just the whole idea of being stuck in the sub for so many months with females something is bound to happen. there are a lot of cheating by officers as well which sometimes doesnt get reported. I just think its not a good idea and Amanda brought up a good point what are they going to do if someone gets pregnant. My brother and sister in law both are in the Navy and dont agree with it. Yes women can do stuff equally as men but there are just somethings that should be left for men and things left for women. Call me old fashioned but I dont expect for my husband to be in the kitchen while I go off to work.
Andrea - posted on 05/04/2010
Then you would be against me being stuck on a mountain top or hillside spinning a radar with a team of 6-8. Yes I slept in the field usually around my male counterparts, however they were respectful and gave me privacy when I needed to change or go to the bathroom. My MOS was only opened to women in the late 90's because of the same reasons. If it rained we all slept in the same trucks. However, the guys were man enough to know I was married and was extremely faithful to my husband.
Yes, there will always be a barracks bicycle, and there are some men who do not know what marriage vows mean. But there are a lot of good women in the military that are good at their jobs and should not be punished because they are women. Which is exactly what you are saying should happen. I just have a question. Have you ever served? Do you know what happens on these ships or are you just reacting to rumors that you have heard?
Amy - posted on 05/02/2010
i think the re3ason most women are against it is because they are insecure. i dont have a problem with it. and i am a navy eife. there are several women on my husbands ship and i dont have a problem with it. he is married to ME for a reason. and the woman do not take well to sexual misconduct. people just need to trust their spouses more. u cant keep men away from women look at all the women at ports. they love american sailors and dont think twice about being with them.
Andrea - posted on 05/01/2010
I am curious to know why you wouldn't want women to serve equally to men? Women have been an asset to the military despite the fact that they are women. I have not served in the navy but I am a veteran to the Army. I had a combat arms MOS and I did everything the men did. It is discrimination to say that women are limited in the jobs that they can do.
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