To vaccinate or not???

Candi - posted on 06/24/2011

The chicken pox vaccine is given on their first b-day. Only the booster is given later and thats usually before they start school.

Ally - posted on 06/24/2011

Oh and just fyi...our daughter got the chicken pox from her two vaccinated friends who's mom chose to let them participate in school and regular activities the day after they got vaccines for chickenpox and mmr (they are live virus vaccines and can be shed and passed to others) so i hope all the moms vaccinating their kids are responsible enough to keep them home when they are capable of transmitting the virus to others. And sonve unvaccinated kids pose such a risk to those too young to be immunized do you keep you older children away from your babies
after they recieve live virus injections?

Ally - posted on 06/24/2011

Go with your gut on this one...you Know your child and their risk factors better than doctors or anyone on this site. I can't stand how people and the gov want to group every child into the same risk factor category bc it simply isn't true.

We all do what we think is best for OUR particular child when it comes to manny different issues. It is not my job if I am concerned about vaccines causing serious problems for my child, to worry about the hateful things other moms say about me being "selfish" and not protecting THIER babies...give me a break.

If the die hard vaccinators really believed in the science behind vaccines and they were doing their own part to protect their babies as best as they possibly could ( extended breast feeding, checking their own immunity levels and making sure family who came in contact with their newborns were up to date on their shots) i would have an easier time listening to them. The reality is most adults, grandparents friends and aunts and uncles who come see your new baby pose a WAY bigger threat than a non vaccinated kid.

Viruses are also very unlikely to come home from daycares or other places with your vaccinated child..when proper immunity levels are reached vaccines are pretty effective and your child won't get it from a toy and carry it home...most viruses have to enter the respiratory system directly through droplets to survive and multiply.

We waited until we felt we had done all our research and read and re-read package inserts clinical trial data, adverse reactions reported , ingredient lists and manufacturing processes until we were comfortable and then we decided we would accept some vaccine and decline others.

All state except west va i think have religious and medical waivers to exempt children from vaccines and some have personal belief exemptions. Usually a very simple one page paper outlining your beliefs reasons and intent to decline vaccination. People will give you major hard times if you go that way and some schools will tell. You your child HAS to be fully vaccinated but that is not true in most cases you would just have to be persistent.

It isn't an easy decision either way just get all the information you can from reputable and current sources and do what you and your husband are most comfortable with and if you do decide against some vaccines make sure you guys are on the same page bc if your kids not vaccinated you have to be prepared with the reality that your kid can catch the diseases. Fortunately most childhood illnesses are not serious, are meant to be had in childhood and pass quickly with few if any complications.

The bottom line we came down to was we were more comfortable with naturally acquired immunity and in our ability to take care of a sick child with one of these diseases and recognize if our child needed any type of medical attention since my hubby is a paramedic and im a
registered nurse and if our child got sick we will and have take care of them. We were less comfortable making a decision to inject our child with things we weren't sure about and if something went wrong it would be bc of an active decision we made not bc of a decision we didn't
make. To each his own best of luck with your decision...whichever choice you make it will be the right one for your family :)

Beth - posted on 06/15/2011

The biggest problem with the non vaccinating crowd is they don't think what they do effects others. That's the problem with most of this world , no one thinks what they do has any effect on anyone else. Well it does. Vaccinating is one area where we see that , with the return of these preventable diseases.

Tah - posted on 06/14/2011

Carry on

Tah - posted on 06/14/2011

calm down pagan. Let me say this for everybody in this debate. ITS A DEBATE. People are going to say things you don't like. If there is no violation of T.H.U.M.P.S...no one was called a name nor threatened. People cuss on COM all the time in all the communities, so that isn't called an violation of it either. I will be posting a message on here considering this because I get many many flags..actually more flags in this community than any other if I'm to be honest but only was for something that was an actual violation. I think this my fault. I need to go ahead and post something for this community so we are clear on what is and isn't acceptable.

Julia - posted on 06/14/2011

If you couldn't tell I'M FUCKING pissed off.

Julia - posted on 06/14/2011

Ok for all of you who didn't like hearing what I had to say because I said a curse word....GROW A SET!!!! I'm an adult, I will use whatever language I feel like. When someone says something as asnine as my child is protected because they are vaccinated from your disease infested child. It really gets to me. INFANTS are not fully vaccinated and can catch these diseases and these diseases are making a comeback because of your insistance that vaccinations are the devil. WELL I think anyone who doesn't vaccinate should crawl into a hole with other unvaccinated people and stay there, because that is where you belong.

Chasity - posted on 06/14/2011

I saw this and had to join this group just to post on this matter. My five month old only got his shots because his big sister was almost killed by whooping cough last Sept. Please do not think that your children are safe without them, I even got him his shots even after my oldest had staph in the muscle from not having her injection site cleaned properly.

Erin - posted on 06/14/2011

I wish someone would mow my lawn! I can get by without the childcare, but my husband is gone for 18 months and I'm tired of cutting the grass!

Candi - posted on 06/14/2011

LOL. But you know its true!!! Go ahead and grab that cookie, Tah!!

Tah - posted on 06/13/2011

O goodness candi I was just going to get some cookies to cheat on my diet..I knew I should have gone downstairs first....that's gross..I'm glad my sons cyp isn't like that. I can't stand kids with that all over..wipe your kids nose nasty mcnasterson

Candi - posted on 06/13/2011

when I lived in Germany, my husband was deployed for 15 months and every time I tried to use the free daycare, they claimed they didn't have anything available. Didn't care. My kids probably would have gotten sick by going there anyway b/c people would drop their kids off with green snot running all over their faces!

Julia - posted on 06/13/2011

just on base. at CYS. I don't know about this anymore or if every base does this but when I was in Hawaii, they would mow your back yard for you too.

Erin - posted on 06/13/2011

Is the free childcare during deployment only on post? I wonder if childcare is tax deductible if a service member is deployed and you don't live on post? Anyone have specifics on this?

Tah - posted on 06/13/2011

I'm not sure what signing a flipping waiver will do for children who may get sick when unvaccinated children get sick and pass it on to those who may not have had certain vaccines yet.


Also...and very important...we get FREE daycare when the spouse is deployed?....why didn't anyone tell me...lol

Beth - posted on 06/13/2011

This is why not vaccinated children are dangerous.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/us/21v...

Jennifer - posted on 06/13/2011

Lori - I'm sorry for your situation. How terrible for you to have to go through that!

Julia - if your childen are vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about. :-) Please remember, we are all different for a reason. As with any decision we make in life, education helps us make the correct choices for each of our children.

Julia - posted on 06/13/2011

You can sign a waiver all day saying that you won't hold someone else accountable if your child gets sick, but most diseases are contagious before even showing symptoms of it. So if your unvaccinated child goes to day care and has measles and plays with the same toy as my vaccinated older child then brings it home to my youngest who is too young to have those vaccinations yet, then I WILL hold you responsible for MY child.

As for autism, that study has been proven false and the doctor that published that study has LOST HIS LICENSE!

Also you are a military family. I find it highly IRRESPONSIBLE not to vaccinate. Not every country has irradicated some of these diseases which are deadly to children. Go talk to your grandparents or if they aren't old enough maybe you can talk to your great grandparents. They can let you know about the devastation of measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, polio and all of the other diseases that these vaccinations are for.

I mean I never had the small pox vaccination, my brothers and one of my sisters did but the disease was gone in the US before I was born. However, I got one when I went to Iraq...why? Because there was the possibility of contracting it while I was there.

So if you want to put YOUR child's life on the lines by all means do so, however do NOT put my child's life on the line.

Lori - posted on 06/13/2011

Jennifer, it is up to each community health nurse to allow exceptions. They are not REQUIRED to make exceptions for non vaccinated children. The one here at Fort Huachuca will NOT make exceptions, period. She even demanded to know my adopted daughter's HIV, Hep A/B/C status, which is not even LEGAL for her to ask much less demand to know before she accepts her. I told her she is negative and she demanded to have NEW tests run by the clinic on post before she would consider accepting her, so I decided not to pursue it although I did have new tests run and she IS free of communicable disease. I'd hate to think what they would have done if we had adopted an HIV positive child! I am not sure about DoD schools because the schools here are not DoD, but at least the schools here on Fort Huachuca are required to accept a waiver.

Jennifer - posted on 06/13/2011

We have a religious exemption. We were required to go to the community health nurse to make sure we "understood the risks" involved, but we have been granted access to CYS with no problems. Understandably, when there is an outbreak of a communicable disease (as there was this past year with... what was it... measles?) our children are not allowed in childcare (as my children RARELY go to childcare - we like CYS for the sports).

Heather - posted on 06/13/2011

Jennifer, could you give some more information about the waiver for CYS? I've always been told it was non-negotiable and my child HAD to have her vaccines up to date or she would be pulled from child care. I'd imagine it says something to the effect of; I won't hold anyone else responsible for my child getting sick, but I'd like to know how easy it really is.

Jennifer - posted on 06/13/2011

FYI... you CAN register with CYS in the military without your child being vaccinated. And no, not a medical a waiver.

Heather - posted on 06/13/2011

You have to make the decision for yourself. I definitely recommend doing some reseach, but beware that not all the information is factual or reliable. Look at the study groups, number and variety of people used and the length of the study. Autism really hasn't been diagnosed long enough for reliable studies to have been conducted. I will say that in the military, if your children haven't had their vaccinations, they can't go to day care on base and in most cases can't attend school on base. They are also refused participation in most of the Child and Youth Services Sports programs.
Something else to think about is this: even if your child doesn't present with a disease does not mean they aren't a carrier. They could give another child who's not old enough to get a vaccination a disease that could kill them. Babies can't recieve the whooping cough, measels, mumps, and rhuebella, but older children could give it to them and it's fatal in infants. There are risks with everything you do, but informing yourself is important. Not just with what could happen if you DO vaccinate, but also what could happen to your children and others if you DON'T.

Candi - posted on 06/13/2011

I vaccinated all 3 of mine and on time. No bad reactions. It is a little tough when you are military and living in different places when time for vaccines comes up, but the benefits far out weigh what could happen if your child gets measles, mumps or whooping cough(going around when I lived in TX) My husband and I never had chicken pox, so yes all 3 of my kids got that shot too! I cannot risk getting chicken pox as an adult!

Erin - posted on 06/13/2011

Lori,
I definitely do not think less of you for making such an informed choice. Clearly, you have figured all of the factors and made the right decision for your children. I am sure I would do the same if our situation is the same. As you said, every autism situation is different. It sure would be easier if they were all the same, so we could figure out how to help all of our kids, but like you said, for now, we have to each figure out what helps our own kid/kids. I tried the GF diet for my son and it had no effect. I tried several supplements and they are helping. I take every bit of help I can get. Oddly enough, my son is on growth hormone replacement therapy and it seems like the medication actually has a positive effect on his ASD symptoms. I have to look into it more, but last summer when I forgot to take his meds with us on a vacation, his symptoms were much worse. I have to do a control, where we miss the meds for 2 weeks at home, but it seemed like a clear connection. You can never tell what will help, I'll take what I can get. the best thing we can do is support one another as mothers of autistic kids, as well as military spouses.
I wish you all the best.

Lori - posted on 06/13/2011

Erin, some children undergo detoxification, chelation, etc. and show no improvement in their symptoms. I think my sons' first neurologist summed it up when he said the only thing we know for sure about autism is that we don't know enough. He theorized that autism is not actually one condition, but several, even many, that manifest in a similar manner. Because some children DO respond to detoxification. Some children DO respond to changes in their diet. But some DON'T. My sons' immune systems have improved so much since we stopped vaccines that I can't, in good conscience, give them any more. My oldest son's immune system was horrible. He would get sick all of the time. He almost died TWICE. He spent a week in the hospital in the PICU once. Since we stopped vaccinating, his immune system has slowly improved and in the last year, he has had one cold and one stomach bug, whereas in previous years he would get sick every single time anyone around us had the slightest symptoms of a cold, tummy bug, flu, etc. He is so much healthier now. To me, the damage vaccines do is much greater than the very small chance that he might get immunity to a disease that if his immune system is good, he should recover from quickly. In stark contrast to his brothers at 0-2, my youngest son has rarely gotten more than the sniffles and the only thing we did different was to not vaccinate. They were all breast fed until 22-24 months, never formula fed. I do believe that some children are more susceptible to a damaged immune system from vaccines than others. It is up to the parents to make an informed decision for their children. Sadly, most parents never get enough information to make an informed decision. You have done your homework and choose to vaccinate. I've done mine and choose not to. ;) No hard feelings, I don't think less of you. I like to think you don't think less of me choosing not to. In the end it is a very personal decision, one that we should all try to be understanding of. :)

Erin - posted on 06/13/2011

Lori, I hear you. I know that my eldest son has autism due to the toxins his body was subjected to via the large number of vaccines he had. But, I can't, in good conscience, leave my kids open to the deadly illnesses the vaccines can prevent. So I choose to get my other four sons vaccinated, but selectively and at a much slower rate. No one knows, for sure, what causes ASD, but it seems pretty clear that it has something to do with the body's ability to rid itself of toxins. Some people can clear the toxins easily, while others cannot. In my opinion, better safe than sorry, in both areas.

Rachael - posted on 06/13/2011

http://www.path.org/vaccineresources/fil...

http://momgoinggreen.wordpress.com/2010/...

hopefully these help

Lori - posted on 06/13/2011

Erin, the studies you reference are actually false. They say that the rates of autism in developing countries or in communities like the Amish (who until recently did not vaccinate) are the same as the general population in developed countries that vaccinate, but if you read the fine print, most of these countries or communities have no records or way of recording those with diagnosed with autism, so their rate is ESTIMATED based on the rate of autism in a country, usually the US or a western European country, making the "study" completely misleading and unreliable. In Eastern Europe, kids with disabilities are given up to orphanages- and children who spent time in orphanages or institutions often develop institutional autism from lack of stimulation and human contact. Institutional autism may or may not be overcome once a child is placed in a loving family and is not considered true autism unless a child is still meets diagnostic criteria after more than 12 months in a family.
That being said... We no longer vaccinate. I have three biological sons. My oldest son has Asperger's syndrome and had an obvious vaccine reaction after the MMR shot, but not the reactions usually associated with vaccine onset autism. What he has was a lump in his leg at the injection site that remained for a year. He did exhibit loss of speech, loss of appetite, loss of skills, etc., after that vaccine, but it also concurred with his father's first deployment, which was incredibly traumatic for him. My second son is diagnosed with moderate autism and has shown autistic traits since he was born. He couldn't stand to be held or touched as an infant and screamed all the time. I didn't even know until I was expecting my third son that my two oldest were given vaccines at birth before we left the hospital. A neurologist did genetic testing on my two oldest sons. He didn't find anything conclusive, but he did state that he believed the tendency to be autistic, at least, was genetic in their case. He gave our 3rd son a 50% chance of being autistic. My 3rd son is now 23 months old and showing no signs of autism. He has also never had a single vaccine. I don't necessarily believe that vaccines cause autism, but I do NOT believe vaccines are safe enough to warrant giving them to my kids. My oldest son got chicken pox when he was fully vaccinated against it- my nursing baby who never received a shot did not. Vaccines ingredients include formaldehyde, mercury (so-called mercury free vaccines are actually allowed to contain a percentage of it and still be called mercury or thimerosal free, leading people to believe they are safe), aluminum, aborted fetal tissue, peanut oil, and the list goes on. Besides that, vaccines are rarely effective enough to warrant getting them- NEVEER more than 85% effective, but generally more like 35% effective. Hmm.... There were studies published that have recently come to light showing that it was the introduction of sanitary methods (like hand washing, gasp!) that are the cause of disease reduction and not vaccines at all. The author of the well known study refuting the link between vaccines and autism was brought up on fraud charges linked to THAT study. Plus, pediatricians are PAID by vaccine companies to coerce parents into vaccinating.
As far as what to expect when you don't vaccinate your child- there are forms you can fill out so that your child can attend public school. In a lot of states, Arizona being one, your child more than likely will not be allowed to attend daycare. Military daycare will not allow an unvaccinated child without a medical reason as to why the child cannot be vaccinated. So... that free child care we get when our husbands are deployed? Can't use it. What you CAN use is the child care provided for retreats, FRG meetings, special events, etc. Your child may not be allowed to attend classes or participate in sports on post, because those are all run by CYS and they require advance registration. Overall though, I think it is worth it. I might have used the hourly childcare to go to the grocery store or get caught up on housework, but not very often, so it was okay. It would have been nice for doctor appointments, but again, I've managed without it. ;) HTH.

Lori

Ty - posted on 06/05/2011

Sorry for the misspelled words! I meant out weigh!

Beth - posted on 06/05/2011

vaccinate!!!!!
There have been out breaks of measles because parents aren't vaccinating their kids. other countries like France have had 10,000 cases in the first 4 months of 2011.
http://health.yahoo.net/experts/dayinhea...

The above link explains it.
BAD BAD things happen to children that catch these things. Look up the lingering effects of contracting some of the diseases we vaccinate for. Would you ever forgive your self if your child ended up with one of these lingering effects.

Ty - posted on 06/05/2011

Vaccinate! U were and you r find! I think the things that can hsppen if you don't ou way the things that will happen if u do! They are always coming up with something to scare us! But ur the mother do what u think is best!

Samantha - posted on 06/04/2011

The CDC, especially as of late, has been releasing plenty of statements saying that a lot of the vaccines they push on us do not even work. Just the other day they admitted the flu vaccine does not even work. I highly encourage you to do research on your own and not allow anyone to sway your opinion, especialy those that profit from pushing vaccines. The fact is, most parents are unaware of what is being injected into their child. I've found it interesting that if you question it, the doctors/nurses automatically get defensive. The truth is, a lot of the nurses/doctors do not even know what it is they are dishing out.They are merely following orders.
Do not let any one make you feel like you are a bad parent for asking questions. Good parents ask questions instead of merely doing what they are told!
If you decide to vaccinate your children, fine. But let that be your INFORMED decision.
If you decide not to, that is your right. A right we need to protect, especially in this day and age where all of our choices are being taken from us.

Kim - posted on 06/03/2011

I know this is a sensitive subject for a lot of parents. There have been supposed studies posted that some vaccines can cause autism. I had initially opted to revise the schedule for my daughter and son so that they didn't have more than 2 vaccines at a time. Recently, around February, at my MOPS meeting our guest speaker was a pediatrican who has been in her field for over 20 years. She had some wonderful information and insight and provided trustworthy information. #1 - Dr. Sears' studies have come under scrutiny for his subjects used in his studies AND for falsefying information to sway his readers. #2 - CDC has done EXTENSIVE testing on their own and cannot find a link between vaccines and autism. #3 - if it's the pain factor you are concerned with, studies show that 1 shot releases the same pain response in the brain as 2 or 3 or 4 so it's actually better to get them all done at once instead of spreading them out into more shots. This pediatrician vaccinates her daughter per the recommended schedule and in her 20 years of experience has not seen one case where vaccines related in developmental issues and/or autism. I am opting to follow the recommended schedule also. If there is a link, which I don't personally believe there is, the risk of 'getting' autism is much much MUCH lower than the risk of my child contracting measels or something horrible. Just my two cents!

Jennifer - posted on 06/02/2011

NVIC.org is the best resource for vaccine information. It's the national vaccine information center - very well respected. Very unbiased. Gives you just the facts, and encourages education before you decide!

Erin - posted on 06/02/2011

Oh, also, if you are not in a high risk group, don't let the nurses give your baby the hepatitis b vaccine in the hospital after your baby is born. Get it when he/she is close to school age. It's not necessary for a baby, at all, if you all are not high risk. The doctors and nurses will try to bully you into it and also into getting the vaccines on schedule. It's tough, but you can stick to your guns if you want to do a different schedule. YOU are the mom. Just insist that you are doing the vaccines, just at a different schedule.
Good luck!

Erin - posted on 06/02/2011

I have four sons, including one on the autism spectrum and I vaccinate. My first son had all the vaccinations as scheduled by the cdc. My other boys have had all the vaccines, but in a revised schedule, mostly as spelled out in The Vaccine Book. I highly recommend the book by Dr. Sears. It talks about all of the vaccines, why they are needed or not and when to get them and includes a clear and easy to follow schedule.
The diseases such as measles, mumps and pertussis can be fatal. Google pertussis and watch video of a baby with it and you will probably be convinced that it is very necessary to vaccinate against it.
These diseases are serious. As the mom of an autistic child, I was quick to blame the vaccines, but after much research, I feel that if they vaccines are part of the cause, the bad effect can be avoided my spacing the vaccines out. Just look at studies done on kids who are in rural international areas and are not vaccinated at all. The autism rates there are the same as they are here.
See my site, www.BeenThereDoneThatMom.com for more information and feel free to contact me directly.
Erin

Jenny - posted on 06/02/2011

I started to vaccinate my son, but stopped after the 2, 4, 6 month shots. He was having reactions and going developmentally backwards. After much research I decided I will not vaccinate him, nor our new son in Sept. Most states will allow either a personal, religious, or medical. Some states require you to go to the health dept to have a witness sign a statement others you just tell the dr you refuse. Beware though, many doctors will tell you your son "will die" without the vaccinations. Our first ped scared my husband into getting the first 3 sets, I had planned on not doing any. We then found out he could lose his medical license for that. The easiest of the refusals is the personal beliefs one because they have no way of nit-picking it. Also the big thing that has come out in the news the last couple of months is that the main 2 researchers and developers of vaccines and those who did the mmr study "proving" that there was no link to autism have just been indited on fraud and falsifying statements concerning vaccines.

There is also a "trust fund" set up for children who have been "injured" by vaccines called the vaccine injury compensation fund. I put the link for their website as well.

I don't remember which website I read about this on but when they have done studies on children's brain that have been vaccinated and have autism the levels of metals is much higher than kids that do not have autism. It is even lower in non-vaccinated children. Also the possibility of your child getting 1 of the multiple diseases they are vaccinated for is 1 in 641 or very close to that the rate of autism in boys is 1 in 58 and in girls is 1 in 76 which is based on new studies, but the CDC still has the old numbers which is around 1 in 112. In my opinion I would rather my child get measles, mumps, pertussis (whooping cough), the flu etc for a week or two and still be completely mentally competent than to take a chance that my child get autism and not be able to function to their full capability. My mother in law works with autistic children and some are so severe that they actually have to be institutionalized after a certain age because they end up posing a danger to others.

Also, the most damage from vaccines is done in the first 2 years of life when the brain is developing the fastest. I do however know a ret AF veteran who suffers permanently from a vaccine he received during his service. He was given an experimental vaccine. It did not damage him as severely as autism does children, but it does affect his quality of life.

I don't think anyone could ever convince me to vaccinate. Of all the diseases we have today and the vaccines we now have sanitation and modern medicine to prevent severe complications and death. There was no autism that I could ever find in any sense of the disorder under that name or as a "mental disability" before the vaccines, but death to to the diseases we vaccinate against was due to poor sanitation and lack of medical resources. I honestly think we are better off without them. I have friends who do and do not vaccinate and the ones that don't vaccinate their kids are healthier, less colds, ear infections, etc than the kids who are vaccinated. Plus the vaccinated kids seem to have an easier time learning and are well ahead of their peers.

I have never been at a base where I've used the MTF so I don't know how they react to the refusal. I've always used a physician who took tricare off base. The hubby was more weary about not vaccinating in the beginning, but is fine with it now because at the 6 month shots he finally "saw" the regression that I saw after the first 2 sets.
Here are some websites about the indictment for fraud and falsifying statements and also about Hannah Poling a little girl who became autistic after getting her vaccines.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-k...

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/international...

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/autism-re...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/2...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/corre...

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/12/age-o...

Hannah Poling-
http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-31727_162-10...

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-03-06/healt...

Vaccine Injury compensation fund
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/

http://www.autismspeaks.org/

You are welcome to email me privately if want to ask me anything else.